Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Gandhi I've only got a passing familiarity with, even though he seems to be referred to as the father of non-violent protest.Maybe he was perfect and maybe his followers were never incited to riot or to violence. If so, then in this case I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to be wrong. I wish my cynical world view was wrong and that if you really are pure of heart then the truth will win out in the end and peace will fall on the land but I guess I just haven't seen it in my life time.On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do? Who would Jesus bomb? The moneylenders in the temple? "Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it. I don't think so. So what about Gandhi? And indeed Jesus? Let's have a look at the global protests since Seattle in 1999, what about them? I see lots on violence on the TV where protests are going on. Where are the peaceful ones? I'm serious. Educate me. Maybe I'm turning blinders to peace because it seems to me that all there is, is evil and violence in the world at large. Little people being crushed under the wheel of US empire building and Globalization monster.This Jesus guy though. The more I read about the true, historical Jesus he is looking less and less like the guy in the Wholly Roman Bible and more like an Iraqi insurgent. He was closely associated with the Zealots who were fighting against the Roman occupation. When his plans of political ascension fell apart, looks like he high tailed it out of there and maybe joined Mary Mag in France.Keith, educate me. Where am I wrong?___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
On 14 Apr 2006, at 15:45, D. Mindock wrote: We could make progress in the way of gettinga true representative government if: we had a true watchguard media. When, I think it was during the Regan era, they pushed through legislation that allowed the media to be owned by only a few people. I didn't realize at the time that this would be the result. [if] we had representatives in Congress who valued the common man over corporate interests. This is the true crux of the matter, the revolving door between government and industry. When we look at a candidate we need to know who his corporate backing is. Who is he beholding to? This could all be done away with if we have proper funding of elections. Everyone gets the same amount. With some exceptions, the majority is eager or at least amenable by arm twisting, to do corporate bidding. What major politician isn't a corporate stooge? we had a fired up electorate which continuously harassed their Congress reps. This is growing and may our only hope. Yes, I keep writing and calling my lesbian senator from Wisconsin but I never really get replys. Is it at the point of critical ignition? Maybe. It depends on the sensitvity level of our reps. Do they fear not being re-elected enough to do something constructive? Money is in getting into politics and then getting out and collecting that paycheck for life from your corporate buddies. You'd have to say that overall, MLK was a positive agent of change. [snip] His assassination was inevitable. Or at least a real good bet at the time. The U$A is not at peace with itself. I still hear racial slurs these days. It is sickening. How can people let fear and hate fester on for decades? My Chinese wife got called a chink by blacks and in an accident (MVA) she was in, which was causes by a young white kid driving too fast for conditions, the white cop who showed up ignored her and refused to file charges against the kid. My wife was in shock and couldn't get her mouth to work at the time. The cop had left by the time she was coherent. Despite her condition no paramedic was called. Somethings just stay the same. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Gary, It sure would be appreciated if you would substantiate some of your claims. You imply in an almost sweeping manner that the marchers are the ones who provoke and instigate riotous behavior. Seems as if you're almost oblivious to the provocative actions of constabularies and misfits of opposing belief/opinion or just downright agitators who are there for no other reason than to provoke violence for violence sake. Just because agitators generate violence in what starts out and is intended to end as a peaceful protest is not sufficient reason to call it something else. It's not the protest that's violent, it's generally the response. As for declaring that peaceful protest is not effective gives the implication that only violent protest is. And words such as iron fist inside silk glove imply that persons such as King or marchers in general are the ones out to provoke - that the intent is there before the first shoe lace was tied that morning. This isn't a matter of stomping on anyone, much less anyone's heroes. This is nonsense and propagandizing of the highest order. It's almost starting to come across as if your politics are of a firm proponent of installing designated protest areas, replete with 10' tall fences lined with razor wire, three miles away from where a protest might be effectlively conducted. Something tells me that as a police chief, Mr. Green, that you might all too readily forget the freedoms that are accorded to citizens in some countries, even to the point of helping to instigate and/or elevate problems that need neither occur nor get out of hand. Such a hand is what proves to be the iron hand - usually a hand found at a high vantage point, orchestrating pointed strikes/arrests. God help the bystander or pedestrian or someone not smoking a hand made instead of a tailor made on such a day, because that's how little it takes to get your skull caved in. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: Okay, let's take this in chunks. Yes, there is peaceful protest but how effective is it really? It's not. It doesn't get much media coverage and gets ignored or forgotten if it is reported. People Power in the PI? Again the threat of violence was there, there were isolated incidents if I remember correctly. Where MLK went there were often riots, big or small okay, small riot is an oxymoron but you get the idea. MLK spoke constantly of non-violence but there were the agitators in the back that kept things on edge. Did MLK secretly coordinate with them? Who knows. All I'm saying here is without the iron fist inside the silk glove you won't be taken seriously. Sorry if it appears I'm stomping on one of your heros but I see very few people as saints be they good or bad. Politics are everywhere no matter what your agenda be it for good or bad. Someone once said that if you were not into politics, you will be done in by politics. On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed. And so that proves your point, there's no such thing as peaceful protest, it's just a sham? Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 4/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands.The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed.On 14Apr, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Keith Addison wrote:"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it. I don't think so. I ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. Violence at who's initiation? You mean to tell me those poor, backward, racist, white boys don't know how to behave and can't control themselves, so everyone else is supposed to conform to their ignorance? Everyone can have peace at their pleasure or not at all? Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. That's why he had to be killed. Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder? Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed. On 14Apr, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Peaceful Protest always had the promise of riots behind it. I don't think so. I ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 4/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Okay, let's take this in chunks.Yes, there is peaceful protest but how effective is it really? It's not. It doesn't get much media coverage and gets ignored or forgotten if it is reported.People Power in the PI? Again the threat of violence was there, there were isolated incidents if I remember correctly.Where MLK went there were often riots, big or small okay, small riot is an oxymoron but you get the idea. MLK spoke constantly of non-violence but there were the agitators in the back that kept things on edge. Did MLK secretly coordinate with them? Who knows. All I'm saying here is without the iron fist inside the silk glove you won't be taken seriously.Sorry if it appears I'm stomping on one of your heros but I see very few people as saints be they good or bad. Politics are everywhere no matter what your agenda be it for good or bad. Someone once said that if you were not into politics, you will be done in by politics. On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote:Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed. And so that proves your point, there's no such thing as peaceful protest, it's just a sham? Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
On 13 Apr 2006, at 10:18, D. Mindock wrote:A revolution is what we need here. Peaceful, of course. Well, that won't happen.Would somebody PLEASE get me my orbiting nuke platform? I need to make some changes here.I guess we need to ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do?Who would Jesus bomb?"Peaceful Protest" always had the promise of riots behind it. Peace with justice, D. Mindock Did that ever really exist?___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Hi Gary, On 13 Apr 2006, at 10:18, D. Mindock wrote: A revolution is what we need here. Peaceful, of course. Well, that won't happen. Maybe, we got to keep putting the thought out into the aether. Everything begins with a thought. Repeated and dwelled on, it manifests itself. I like the word meme. A meme is like a virus, hard to kill, and spreads easily. Repugs are constantly throwing memes out to make go at each other's throats. Ex., Steve and Adam's marriage is a threat to mine A child needs a dad and a mom, not two moms or two dads My idea is based on the bible. Yours, based on science, must be wrong Preemptive War is necessary to protect us from terrorists Our war in Iraq allows us to spread democracy there and throughout the mid-East. All pregnant women (or girls) must give birth Discrimination against gays is morally right since they are practicing immoral acts. We cannot give up on Iraq. It would dishonor all those who've given their lives. Etc. Would somebody PLEASE get me my orbiting nuke platform? I need to make some changes here. Nothing so drastic. But the intensity and power of the idea of revolution has to grow till it bursts forth. I guess we need to ask: what would Martin Luther King Jr or Ghandi do? Who would Jesus bomb? Peaceful Protest always had the promise of riots behind it. True. Nowadays the police are out in strength. They really manhandled the crowd down in Florida protesting the talks on CAFTA. Little old ladies were thrown to the ground. It was the ugly face of our new police state. Bush loves this control of protesters. Peace with justice, D. Mindock Did that ever really exist? Not in the U$A. We must work, take action, to make it happen. It won't happen in the Congress, which is largely influenced by corporate interests. Somehow, we have to reduce the influence of the moneyed special interests so that constutient interests handily prevail. Election reform is mandatory if this is ever going to happen. We got to get Big Money out of politics, especially in candidate selection. There are many to-the-bone decent candidates but they are drowned out in the sea of corporate influence sellers. Unless you can raise 40 million dollars, you'll never get heard. Bush had 200 million dollars for the 2004 election, maybe more. (And he still ended up needing to steal it.) Peace with justice, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
