RE: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
What a great idea! I just looked, and www.envirocrackpots.com http://www.envirocrackpots.com/ is available. It could just be set up as a redirect to some other website (either friend or foe), or perhaps a page of links. Imagine how funny it would be if after typing that url, surfers were directed to www.bosch.com http://www.bosch.com/ . You could tell that Bosch rep I went to www.envirocrackpots.com http://www.crackpots.com/ , and it sent me to you! -BRAH -Original Message- From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 1:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch! I think it is just the nature of large organizations in general, but to honour the dude at Bosch, maybe we should start enviro-crackpots.com and then populate it with stories of things that are actually the antithesis of crackpotism...i.e. the many times the crackpots ended up being vindicated to date, with more instances to follow, surely. E On Thursday, January 22, 2004, at 10:51 AM, Alan Petrillo wrote: Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: Good to know. Thanks for correcting. No problem. This is really what I hate about dealing with international conglomerates. Conglomerate: Oh we didn't build that. It was built by our Subsidiary, and you'll have to contact them directly for support. Subsidiary: Yes, we built it, but we built it for Conglomerate, and you'll have to contact them for support. Repeat ad nauseum. For some reason it just seems like most international conglomerates, like Bosch, seem to set up their corporate structures for maximum obfuscation. It really makes one wonder what they're trying to hide. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: I think it is just the nature of large organizations in general, but to honour the dude at Bosch, maybe we should start enviro-crackpots.com and then populate it with stories of things that are actually the antithesis of crackpotism...i.e. the many times the crackpots ended up being vindicated to date, with more instances to follow, surely. I rather like that idea. What the heck, domains are cheap, and it just so happens that one is available. I might just go and register it. Not that I'm going to do anything with it personally, but to keep it out of the hands of those who would do bad things with it. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Bryan Brah wrote: What a great idea! I just looked, and www.envirocrackpots.com http://www.envirocrackpots.com/ is available. It could just be set up as a redirect to some other website (either friend or foe), or perhaps a page of links. Imagine how funny it would be if after typing that url, surfers were directed to www.bosch.com http://www.bosch.com/ . You could tell that Bosch rep I went to www.envirocrackpots.com http://www.crackpots.com/ , and it sent me to you! chuckle And then make sure the site shows up on Slashdot and Metafilter. If I could find the guy's correct email address I'd even provide a mailto link. Then he could explain to his IT department why he has 10,000 email messages in his inbox. That would be fun to watch. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Uh-oh On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 12:25 AM, Alan Petrillo wrote: Bryan Brah wrote: What a great idea! I just looked, and www.envirocrackpots.com http://www.envirocrackpots.com/ is available. It could just be set up as a redirect to some other website (either friend or foe), or perhaps a page of links. Imagine how funny it would be if after typing that url, surfers were directed to www.bosch.com http://www.bosch.com/ . You could tell that Bosch rep I went to www.envirocrackpots.com http://www.crackpots.com/ , and it sent me to you! chuckle And then make sure the site shows up on Slashdot and Metafilter. If I could find the guy's correct email address I'd even provide a mailto link. Then he could explain to his IT department why he has 10,000 email messages in his inbox. That would be fun to watch. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: Good to know. Thanks for correcting. No problem. This is really what I hate about dealing with international conglomerates. Conglomerate: Oh we didn't build that. It was built by our Subsidiary, and you'll have to contact them directly for support. Subsidiary: Yes, we built it, but we built it for Conglomerate, and you'll have to contact them for support. Repeat ad nauseum. For some reason it just seems like most international conglomerates, like Bosch, seem to set up their corporate structures for maximum obfuscation. It really makes one wonder what they're trying to hide. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Hakan Falk wrote: Alan, I think it is an awful experience, but you are a bit unfair in referring to it as a German company experience. I would say that it is a typical US support person experience and that is from my experiences. If it would have been a German, you would generally been met with a more serious discussion and without stupid side comments. I am not saying that it is typical for US either, but when it happens, this kind of arrogance is not the German way. You can find them square headed sometimes, but not like this. I know, Hakan. It's an unfair generalization. It's just that on the, admittedly few, occasions that I've had to deal with German businesses it's been like beating my head against a wall. It could just be that they've been big corporations, and they're just behaving like big corporations everywhere. It was that enviro-crackpots crack that really got me, though. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: Alan: What is it you are trying to find out about the pump? I forget. It's developed a leak at the advancer. I was trying to find out whether or not this would require a full overhaul to fix, or just the replacement of a seal. And whether it could be done on the vehicle or on the bench. Well, after giving up on Bosch I went googling, and here's what I found: http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/engine/fi/ Lots of good reading there. There's an article on the design and functioning of the VE type pumps that shows just what a simple and elegant design they are. Aparently for the Bosch VE pumps a leak on the advancer is a pretty common failure and an easy fix, but it does require the removal of the pump from the vehicle. Time to consult a professional. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good rant. You don't say if you investigated on-line sources for information. If not, look at this link. -- Jay Click here: Robert Bosch type VE Diesel injection pump The text cam through, but not the link. Hate when that happens. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: 1939 Diesel Kiki Co., Ltd. was founded as a joint venture involving representative engine manufacturers in Japan. Production of fuel-injection equipment begun under the technical license agreement with Robert Bosch GmH, Germany. JV, production under license, like the guy said. That was in 1939. Pull the history back up, and read further. http://www.bosch.co.jp/automotive/en/key_data/history.html Particularly, if you go here: http://www.bosch.co.jp/en/companies/index.html you'll find this: In 1911 an initial agency contract in Japan was signed, and the first repair workshop for Bosch products in Japan was established the following year in Yokohama. In 1972 Bosch K.K. was founded as a wholly-owned Japanese subsidiary. In 1997 Bosch became the largest shareholder (30.1%) of ZEXEL Corp. (presently Bosch Automotive Systems Corp.) and in 1999 Bosch's shareholding in ZEXEL reached over 50%. In July 2002 Bosch's automotive original equipment business in Japan merged into the new entity of Bosch Automotive Systems Corp. Total annual sales of Bosch Japan companies is approximately 370 billion yen and employees number around 13,000. Bosch has and will continue to make an even greater contribution to the Japanese industry. Like I said, Bosch owns them. Diesel Kiki is owned by Zexel, and Bosch owns Zexel. Or close to it. Close enough that if you want to find then on the web then you look at bosch.co.jp. Close enough that if you want to find any information on Diesel Kiki in the US then you get immediately referred to Bosch. Other lisencees, like Yanmar, support their stuff themselves. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Good to know. Thanks for correcting. Edward Beggs On Tuesday, January 20, 2004, at 09:46 PM, Alan Petrillo wrote: Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: 1939 Diesel Kiki Co., Ltd. was founded as a joint venture involving representative engine manufacturers in Japan. Production of fuel-injection equipment begun under the technical license agreement with Robert Bosch GmH, Germany. JV, production under license, like the guy said. That was in 1939. Pull the history back up, and read further. http://www.bosch.co.jp/automotive/en/key_data/history.html Particularly, if you go here: http://www.bosch.co.jp/en/companies/index.html you'll find this: In 1911 an initial agency contract in Japan was signed, and the first repair workshop for Bosch products in Japan was established the following year in Yokohama. In 1972 Bosch K.K. was founded as a wholly-owned Japanese subsidiary. In 1997 Bosch became the largest shareholder (30.1%) of ZEXEL Corp. (presently Bosch Automotive Systems Corp.) and in 1999 Bosch's shareholding in ZEXEL reached over 50%. In July 2002 Bosch's automotive original equipment business in Japan merged into the new entity of Bosch Automotive Systems Corp. Total annual sales of Bosch Japan companies is approximately 370 billion yen and employees number around 13,000. Bosch has and will continue to make an even greater contribution to the Japanese industry. Like I said, Bosch owns them. Diesel Kiki is owned by Zexel, and Bosch owns Zexel. Or close to it. Close enough that if you want to find then on the web then you look at bosch.co.jp. Close enough that if you want to find any information on Diesel Kiki in the US then you get immediately referred to Bosch. Other lisencees, like Yanmar, support their stuff themselves. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Good rant. You don't say if you investigated on-line sources for information. If not, look at this link. -- Jay Click here: Robert Bosch type VE Diesel injection pump [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Alan: What is it you are trying to find out about the pump? I forget. Edward Beggs On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 09:49 PM, Alan Petrillo wrote: I've been trying to get technical information on my injection pump for a week now, and I'm finding nothing but frustration. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
x-charset ISO-8859-11939 Diesel Kiki Co., Ltd. was founded as a joint venture involving representative engine manufacturers in Japan. Production of fuel-injection equipment begun under the technical license agreement with Robert Bosch GmH, Germany. JV, production under license, like the guy said. E On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 09:49 PM, Alan Petrillo wrote: I've been trying to get technical information on my injection pump for a week now, and I'm finding nothing but frustration. I've talked to 2 Bosch reps now, and they've got me so frustrated I could chew iron and spit nails. First I talked to Jeff Wundel (sp?) at Robert Bosch Sales Corp. My request for technical information about my injection pump was answered by, basically, Why would you want that? and I got stonewalled, and referred to my local Bosch distributor. My local Bosch distributor isn't really interested in helping me, and they just tell me that the manual for my IP is out of print. Then I talked to Tom Livingston at US Bosch. He's supposed to be their go-to guy for biodiesel questions. First he said he couldn't really help my because my IP was built under lisence. This is complete BS. My injection pump was built by Diesel KIKI. Bosch owns Diesel KIKI, and has for about 40 years. If you want to find Diesel KIKI on the web you look at bosch.co.jp. I talked to him a bit about SVO, and he let me know in no uncertain terms that Bosch prohibits the use of SVO in their diesel injection systems, and gave me the whole littany about how it's bad for the pumps, bad for the injectors, bad for the exhaust valves, bad for the combustion chambers, and a just plane bad idea. Vegetable oil is really not a good fuel for internal combustion engines. He told me about the problems of growing things in vegetable oil fuel, and how there are some things in it you just can't filter out. As far as biodiesel goes, Bosch recommends no more than a 20% blend of biodiesel, even with Viton seals. We talked a bit about heating SVO to make it thin enough to function in Bosch IP's and he said I could probably find information about it at enviro-crackpots.com. That p-d me off, but I was a good boy and held my tongue. He'd never heard of Elsbett or Neoteric. He'd never heard of the vegoil-diesel list, or, aparently the Biofuels list, or the Infopop forum. I talked to him a little bit about the modifications that Elsbett and Neoteric are doing to the injectors, and his response was Yeah, they're probably rebuilding them a lot. grumble He's their go-to guy for biodiesel issues, and I'm educating him. Bosch's official line is if you want to experiment with vegetable oil go ahead, but you're on your own. The whole attitude I've gotten from Bosch reps is we don't care, we don't have to, we're _Bosch_! I suppose you can get away with that kind of attitude when you're the largest manufacturer of diesel injection equipment on the planet. I suppose I should have expected it from a German company. It's endemic in German business, so why should I expect Bosch to be any different. But that enviro-crackpots.com crack really pissed me off. It stuck in my craw, and it's still there. GRRR! I'd like very much to find Robert Bosch and chew off a piece of his ear. I would carbon BoschUSA a copy of this letter, but for a contact they have a web form, which kind of means they are professionally not listening. I would also carbon this to Tom Livingston, but the email address I have for him doesn't work. Here's a new concept for Bosch: How about instead of telling your customers what they can't do you listen to your customers and help them do what they need to do. Does that sound like a good idea? Oh, but then I forget, your customers aren't Alan Petrillo, or Morgan Crawford, your customers are DiamlerChrysler, Volkswagen/Audi Group, General Motors, Ford, and Cummins. Little guys like us are merely users of your customers' products. I get the feeling that if I told Bosch here's a million dollars, go build me a fuel system to burn vegetable oil in a diesel engine they'd go spend the million dollars finding reasons it couldn't be done. MORONS! /rant AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [biofuel] rant F-ing Bosch!
Alan, I think it is an awful experience, but you are a bit unfair in referring to it as a German company experience. I would say that it is a typical US support person experience and that is from my experiences. If it would have been a German, you would generally been met with a more serious discussion and without stupid side comments. I am not saying that it is typical for US either, but when it happens, this kind of arrogance is not the German way. You can find them square headed sometimes, but not like this. Hakan At 06:49 20/01/2004, you wrote: I've been trying to get technical information on my injection pump for a week now, and I'm finding nothing but frustration. I've talked to 2 Bosch reps now, and they've got me so frustrated I could chew iron and spit nails. First I talked to Jeff Wundel (sp?) at Robert Bosch Sales Corp. My request for technical information about my injection pump was answered by, basically, Why would you want that? and I got stonewalled, and referred to my local Bosch distributor. My local Bosch distributor isn't really interested in helping me, and they just tell me that the manual for my IP is out of print. Then I talked to Tom Livingston at US Bosch. He's supposed to be their go-to guy for biodiesel questions. First he said he couldn't really help my because my IP was built under lisence. This is complete BS. My injection pump was built by Diesel KIKI. Bosch owns Diesel KIKI, and has for about 40 years. If you want to find Diesel KIKI on the web you look at bosch.co.jp. I talked to him a bit about SVO, and he let me know in no uncertain terms that Bosch prohibits the use of SVO in their diesel injection systems, and gave me the whole littany about how it's bad for the pumps, bad for the injectors, bad for the exhaust valves, bad for the combustion chambers, and a just plane bad idea. Vegetable oil is really not a good fuel for internal combustion engines. He told me about the problems of growing things in vegetable oil fuel, and how there are some things in it you just can't filter out. As far as biodiesel goes, Bosch recommends no more than a 20% blend of biodiesel, even with Viton seals. We talked a bit about heating SVO to make it thin enough to function in Bosch IP's and he said I could probably find information about it at enviro-crackpots.com. That p-d me off, but I was a good boy and held my tongue. He'd never heard of Elsbett or Neoteric. He'd never heard of the vegoil-diesel list, or, aparently the Biofuels list, or the Infopop forum. I talked to him a little bit about the modifications that Elsbett and Neoteric are doing to the injectors, and his response was Yeah, they're probably rebuilding them a lot. grumble He's their go-to guy for biodiesel issues, and I'm educating him. Bosch's official line is if you want to experiment with vegetable oil go ahead, but you're on your own. The whole attitude I've gotten from Bosch reps is we don't care, we don't have to, we're _Bosch_! I suppose you can get away with that kind of attitude when you're the largest manufacturer of diesel injection equipment on the planet. I suppose I should have expected it from a German company. It's endemic in German business, so why should I expect Bosch to be any different. But that enviro-crackpots.com crack really pissed me off. It stuck in my craw, and it's still there. GRRR! I'd like very much to find Robert Bosch and chew off a piece of his ear. I would carbon BoschUSA a copy of this letter, but for a contact they have a web form, which kind of means they are professionally not listening. I would also carbon this to Tom Livingston, but the email address I have for him doesn't work. Here's a new concept for Bosch: How about instead of telling your customers what they can't do you listen to your customers and help them do what they need to do. Does that sound like a good idea? Oh, but then I forget, your customers aren't Alan Petrillo, or Morgan Crawford, your customers are DiamlerChrysler, Volkswagen/Audi Group, General Motors, Ford, and Cummins. Little guys like us are merely users of your customers' products. I get the feeling that if I told Bosch here's a million dollars, go build me a fuel system to burn vegetable oil in a diesel engine they'd go spend the million dollars finding reasons it couldn't be done. MORONS! /rant AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
