RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Hugh Falk]

You don't have to put everything in a case.  I've got around 3000 games, but
I'd be thrilled if I could just put a few hundred of the most delicate in
plastic.

Hugh

-Original Message-
From: Stephen S. Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!



Hello, yeah, I've also been largely absent because of busy-ness in real
life, but I'm now furnishing a large room and am now thinking of filling
the rest of the room with games :)

I think a big problem with plastic boxes is that games just come in too
many sizes.  They also weigh a ton ... and now that my game collection is
somewhere over the 1,000 mark; if I got a thousand of these at $1.50 a
pop, I'm out enough money that could have gotten several shrinked pink
frisbees (eek!)  I can't afford that; I need to be reasonably economical.

Right now I think I'll just go for bookcases with glass cabinet doors
attached.  These will reasonably protect the games from dust (not perfect
but should be close) and still make them readily accessible for playing
and looking.  Plastic baggies, even if you go deluxe baggies, are
awkward-looking and not really a long-term solution.

Also, unlike many of you other folk, I also have to worry about anchoring
my bookcases to the wall, so I don't lose too much in case an earthquake
strikes :)

I did look around the 'net for storage solutions, and much of what
currently exists can't accommodate something as large as a common Ultima
VI box.

As for meeting, I'd be all up for that, except most of the people reading
this aren't in California, I'd wager, even if there are enough collectors
here to clean out any remotely reasonable source of goods (sigh).

-- Stephen

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Origin Museum wrote:

> Although this talk about genres is fascinating, I'm gonna start a new
topic (I hope noone minds).
>
> I spent some time a few weeks ago talking to C.E. Forman on the phone.  We
covered a multitude of topics, but the two that were the most interesting
are below.  I'd like to get input on each of them.  Please post to this
topic if anyone is interested in either.
>
>
> 1.  C.E. and I got into a long discussion on how we store our collections.
We agreed that plastic baggies were a 'short-term' solution, and tried to
think up another (better) way to preserve our software for the long haul.
We agreed on the idea that if we could find some sort of inexpensive, clear,
plastic box of the clamshell variety, that would be ideal.  I searched the
net for anything that would match that description, but came up empty.  We
thought that if we could have a custom box made to a software collector's
exacting specifications, we may be able to have a plastics manufacturer
actually create our 'software collector's box in a limited run!  So, here
are the questions:
>
> *If you were able to have plastic boxes made to preserve your software,
what would be the specifications?(size, ie: LxWxH)
> *What type of box would they be?(clamshell, like an Ultima box, hinged, or
something else?)
> *How much would you pay for each box?
> *How many boxes would you buy in your first order?
>
> If we can suss out some agreeable details, and enough people were
interested in buying in large numbers, we *MAY* be able to make this happen.
I'm assuming the more that were ordered, the cheaper they would be.  I know
that if they were relatively cheap ($1.50 to $2.00 each), I would buy 200 of
these boxes immediately.  Please let me know what you all think of this.
>
> 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software collector's
'meet and greet' at an agreed upon event.  We could get together to swap
stories, share a meal, and perhaps even bring along some of our prized
collectibles to show to each other!  The Philly Classic in Philadelphia this
March, or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this August could be possible locations.  I
assume that some of you would be interested in seeing the Museum's original
Akalabeth, or our genuine Wing Commander Kilrathi head!  If we could make
this happen, we could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a
nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;)
> Please let me hear some ideas on locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an
idea like this.
> Would YOU attend?
>
> "...Preserving Worlds..."
> Joe Garrity
> Curator of The Origin Museum
> http://originmuseum.solsector.net
>
> -
> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> -
>
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at:
http://ww

RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Hugh Falk]

Now that I'm on the west coast, I won't be making the Philly classic.  But
if anybody wants to arrange something around E3, that would work for me.

Hugh

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Feldhamer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!


Um...any chance we can do this on the Sunday of Philly Classic as opposed to
Saturday?

Stuart

-Original Message-
From: C.E. Forman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

*snip*

If I can get the Friday before off, I'm definitely planning to do Philly
Classic this year.  Dragon*Con is out, as I've already made plans with a
visiting German buddy for the CGE in Vegas that month.  If you can make
Philly, LMK if there's anything I can bring that you'd like to see.



--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/




--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Stuart Feldhamer]

Um...any chance we can do this on the Sunday of Philly Classic as opposed to
Saturday?

Stuart

-Original Message-
From: C.E. Forman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

*snip*

If I can get the Friday before off, I'm definitely planning to do Philly
Classic this year.  Dragon*Con is out, as I've already made plans with a
visiting German buddy for the CGE in Vegas that month.  If you can make
Philly, LMK if there's anything I can bring that you'd like to see.



--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/




--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Stephen S. Lee]

Hello, yeah, I've also been largely absent because of busy-ness in real
life, but I'm now furnishing a large room and am now thinking of filling
the rest of the room with games :)

I think a big problem with plastic boxes is that games just come in too
many sizes.  They also weigh a ton ... and now that my game collection is
somewhere over the 1,000 mark; if I got a thousand of these at $1.50 a
pop, I'm out enough money that could have gotten several shrinked pink
frisbees (eek!)  I can't afford that; I need to be reasonably economical.

Right now I think I'll just go for bookcases with glass cabinet doors
attached.  These will reasonably protect the games from dust (not perfect
but should be close) and still make them readily accessible for playing
and looking.  Plastic baggies, even if you go deluxe baggies, are
awkward-looking and not really a long-term solution.

Also, unlike many of you other folk, I also have to worry about anchoring
my bookcases to the wall, so I don't lose too much in case an earthquake
strikes :)

I did look around the 'net for storage solutions, and much of what
currently exists can't accommodate something as large as a common Ultima
VI box.

As for meeting, I'd be all up for that, except most of the people reading
this aren't in California, I'd wager, even if there are enough collectors
here to clean out any remotely reasonable source of goods (sigh).

-- Stephen

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Origin Museum wrote:

> Although this talk about genres is fascinating, I'm gonna start a new topic (I hope 
>noone minds).
>
> I spent some time a few weeks ago talking to C.E. Forman on the phone.  We covered a 
>multitude of topics, but the two that were the most interesting are below.  I'd like 
>to get input on each of them.  Please post to this topic if anyone is interested in 
>either.
>
>
> 1.  C.E. and I got into a long discussion on how we store our collections.  We 
>agreed that plastic baggies were a 'short-term' solution, and tried to think up 
>another (better) way to preserve our software for the long haul.  We agreed on the 
>idea that if we could find some sort of inexpensive, clear, plastic box of the 
>clamshell variety, that would be ideal.  I searched the net for anything that would 
>match that description, but came up empty.  We thought that if we could have a custom 
>box made to a software collector's exacting specifications, we may be able to have a 
>plastics manufacturer actually create our 'software collector's box in a limited run! 
> So, here are the questions:
>
> *If you were able to have plastic boxes made to preserve your software, what would 
>be the specifications?(size, ie: LxWxH)
> *What type of box would they be?(clamshell, like an Ultima box, hinged, or something 
>else?)
> *How much would you pay for each box?
> *How many boxes would you buy in your first order?
>
> If we can suss out some agreeable details, and enough people were interested in 
>buying in large numbers, we *MAY* be able to make this happen.  I'm assuming the more 
>that were ordered, the cheaper they would be.  I know that if they were relatively 
>cheap ($1.50 to $2.00 each), I would buy 200 of these boxes immediately.  Please let 
>me know what you all think of this.
>
> 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software collector's 'meet and 
>greet' at an agreed upon event.  We could get together to swap stories, share a meal, 
>and perhaps even bring along some of our prized collectibles to show to each other!  
>The Philly Classic in Philadelphia this March, or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this August 
>could be possible locations.  I assume that some of you would be interested in seeing 
>the Museum's original Akalabeth, or our genuine Wing Commander Kilrathi head!  If we 
>could make this happen, we could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a 
>nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;)
> Please let me hear some ideas on locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an idea like 
>this.
> Would YOU attend?
>
> "...Preserving Worlds..."
> Joe Garrity
> Curator of The Origin Museum
> http://originmuseum.solsector.net
>
> -
> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> -
>
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
>




--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect

Re: RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Origin Museum]

On plastic cases:

So far, the tally is as follows:

Museum-200
Dan-100
Brad-100
Hugh-100

Current imaginary total=500

Of course, I won't hold anyone to these numbers until I could get a more detailed idea 
of cost--but I don't want to call any vendors until I can assure that there's enough 
interest.  I assume that we'll need about a minimum run of 1000 to 1500 to make this 
happen...keep those imaginary bids coming!

As to size, Hugh writes:

Oh and I'd definitely buy a few hundred cases at that price.  I'd want SSI big box 
>sizes and the more standard SSI gold box sizes.<

For now, I believe that we'd only stick to ONE case size, and see how that goes.  My 
idea is that we have cases made that would accomodate *MOST* box sizes, and the 
smaller ones would fit as well.  With that in mind, could anyone measure an SSI big 
box for me(Hieght, Width, Depth), and we'll start with something a bit bigger as a 
standard to work with. (...so that it'll fit, of course)

Or, better yet, could a few of you measure your biggest titles (after discarding the 
Ultima9, Ultima2, and other 'oversizes'), and post them here, so that we can get an 
idea of AVERAGE size?




"Preserving Worlds"
Joe Garrity
Curator of the Origin Museum
Protector of the Ultima Crossbow
http://originmuseum.solsector.net

-
Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
Hundreds of choices. It's free!
http://www.bigmailbox.com
-

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[C.E. Forman]

To add to what Joe wrote, my cousin currently holds a management position at
a plastics company.  If we can get a large enough order to justify the
expense involved, I'd be glad to talk to him about a production run, see
what's involved.  (Haven't gotten around to it yet, Joe, this Infocom
T-shirt faker has been taking up a lot of my time, but it's on my list.)  I
can see myself ordering 200 - 300, easy.  The more we order at once, the
lower the unit cost.   This could be something they could continue
manufacturing, if the demand catches on.  For the time being, I'd say
something about the size of an Infocom grey or Origin two-piecer is about
right, and maybe some a little larger.  I think we're looking at 2 sizes.
You don't want to make it too small and leave your big box Ultima II out,
but they can't all be big enough to hold Suspended masks, or we're out of
shelf space.  B-)

I'll put this to my readership in the next column, too.

If I can get the Friday before off, I'm definitely planning to do Philly
Classic this year.  Dragon*Con is out, as I've already made plans with a
visiting German buddy for the CGE in Vegas that month.  If you can make
Philly, LMK if there's anything I can bring that you'd like to see.



--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[hughfalk]

Making games today isn't like the old days.  Teams of 15 to 40 people are typical, and 
project managers are necessary for a team that size.  I've seen many times where a 
programmer has a great game idea and therefore also wants to act as the designer or 
project manager.  In the past a person could easily wear many hats.  Now-a-days that 
is VERY difficult.  A serious game design today requires a full-time lead designer, 
lead programmer, lead artist and project manager throughout the course of the project. 
 More than once I've seen companies try to fill a few of those roles with one person 
and failing.  The cowboy days of game development are rare today, and the more 
structured software discipline of modern games doesn't always appeal to the old-timers.

Oh and I'd definitely buy a few hundred cases at that price.  I'd want SSI big box 
sizes and the more standard SSI gold box sizes.

Hugh 


---Original Message---
From: Dan Chisarick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 01/23/03 05:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

> 
>   Boxes: Not sure of the sizes.  I'd say something big enough to hold
an SSI wargame should be about right.  I'd definitely order at least 100
of
them if they're in the $1.50/ea range.
Philly classic: That gets my vote (so what if its 35 minutes from my
house).
John Romero's sig: I don't suppose you have a small cache of your
own creations in a box somewhere that you'd sign & put up for auction...

Random comment: Backhand me if I'm wrong but depressingly few
classic game developers still write games.  I stumble across the
occasional
homepage of an author and they have their past creations listed around
page
3 or 4 of their online resume.  And then they have project management at
the
top (yuck).  With the possible exception of politics and corporate
manuverings getting in the way, how can you get bored of turning pure
thought and creativity into reality?

Dan


-Original Message-
From: Chris Newman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:01 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!


John,

Think long and hard before you get rid of your Synergistics on ebay!
Financial gain aside why would you do it? In a few decades the infant
hobby
of computer software collecting might turn into a mature, mainstream
hobby.
By selling these titles you would be removing a direct link to the very
beginning of the hobby. How many hobbies can you think of where acquiring
first generation artifacts is possible? 

These games are also a link to the state of the industry at the beginning
of
your career, as well as the state of the art. Keep them as pristine and
innocent markers of a very exciting era.

Just my opinion...

John Romero wrote:
> 
> > 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software 
> > collector's 'meet and greet' at an agreed upon event.  We could get 
> > together to swap stories, share a meal, and perhaps even bring along 
> > some of our prized collectibles to show to each other!  The Philly 
> > Classic in Philadelphia this March, or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this 
> > August could be possible locations.  I assume that some of you would 
> > be interested in seeing the Museum's original Akalabeth, or our 
> > genuine Wing Commander Kilrathi head!  If we could make this happen, 
> > we could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a
> > nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;) Please let me hear some ideas on
> > locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an idea like this.
> > Would YOU attend?
> 
> This sounds like a lotta fun - I would just have to find the time!  
> And autographs, well - those are always SO EXPENSIVE!  Hahahahaha!  
> I'm still pretty mystified that people want my signature...
> 
> Maybe I would bring along MY Akalabeth... ;)
> 
> You know, I have a bunch of old Synergistic Software titles in baggies 
> hereI was thinking about popping them up on eBay
> 
> - John
> 
> 
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to 
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' 
> Archives are available at: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the
swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives
are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/



--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are availa

Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Chris Newman]

Oh, doubles, that's another story.
www.ebay.com/sell.html :)

John Romero wrote:

> Yeah, that's not a bad idea. I do have several copies of the same games
> in baggies, though. ;)  Sure, it doesn't hurt.  I was just wondering
> what a "Dungeon Campaign" might go for. Heh.
>
> BTW, I fixed the problem with my getting duplicate emails.  I had
> duplicate rules in Outlook so it was filtering the email twice!  Fixed.
>
> - John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Newman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:01 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!
> >
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Think long and hard before you get rid of your Synergistics
> > on ebay! Financial gain aside why would you do it? In a few
> > decades the infant hobby of computer software collecting
> > might turn into a mature, mainstream hobby. By selling these
> > titles you would be removing a direct link to the very
> > beginning of the hobby. How many hobbies can you think of
> > where acquiring first generation artifacts is possible?
> >
> > These games are also a link to the state of the industry at
> > the beginning of your career, as well as the state of the
> > art. Keep them as pristine and innocent markers of a very
> > exciting era.
> >
> > Just my opinion...
> >
> > John Romero wrote:
> > >
> > > > 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software
> > > > collector's 'meet and greet' at an agreed upon event.  We
> > could get
> > > > together to swap stories, share a meal, and perhaps even
> > bring along
> > > > some of our prized collectibles to show to each other!
> > The Philly
> > > > Classic in Philadelphia this March, or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this
> > > > August could be possible locations.  I assume that some
> > of you would
> > > > be interested in seeing the Museum's original Akalabeth, or our
> > > > genuine Wing Commander Kilrathi head!  If we could make
> > this happen,
> > > > we could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a
> > > > nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;) Please let me hear some ideas on
> > > > locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an idea like this.
> > > > Would YOU attend?
> > >
> > > This sounds like a lotta fun - I would just have to find the time!
> > > And autographs, well - those are always SO EXPENSIVE!  Hahahahaha!
> > > I'm still pretty mystified that people want my signature...
> > >
> > > Maybe I would bring along MY Akalabeth... ;)
> > >
> > > You know, I have a bunch of old Synergistic Software titles
> > in baggies
> > > hereI was thinking about popping them up on eBay
> > >
> > > - John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > > This message was sent to you because you are currently
> > subscribed to
> > > the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> > > Archives are available at:
> > > http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
> >
> > --
> > This message was sent to you because you are currently
> > subscribed to the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe,
> > send mail to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe
> > swcollect' Archives are available at:
> > http://www.mail-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> >
>
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Dan Chisarick]

Boxes: Not sure of the sizes.  I'd say something big enough to hold
an SSI wargame should be about right.  I'd definitely order at least 100 of
them if they're in the $1.50/ea range.
Philly classic: That gets my vote (so what if its 35 minutes from my
house).
John Romero's sig: I don't suppose you have a small cache of your
own creations in a box somewhere that you'd sign & put up for auction...

Random comment: Backhand me if I'm wrong but depressingly few
classic game developers still write games.  I stumble across the occasional
homepage of an author and they have their past creations listed around page
3 or 4 of their online resume.  And then they have project management at the
top (yuck).  With the possible exception of politics and corporate
manuverings getting in the way, how can you get bored of turning pure
thought and creativity into reality?

Dan


-Original Message-
From: Chris Newman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:01 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!


John,

Think long and hard before you get rid of your Synergistics on ebay!
Financial gain aside why would you do it? In a few decades the infant hobby
of computer software collecting might turn into a mature, mainstream hobby.
By selling these titles you would be removing a direct link to the very
beginning of the hobby. How many hobbies can you think of where acquiring
first generation artifacts is possible? 

These games are also a link to the state of the industry at the beginning of
your career, as well as the state of the art. Keep them as pristine and
innocent markers of a very exciting era.

Just my opinion...

John Romero wrote:
> 
> > 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software 
> > collector's 'meet and greet' at an agreed upon event.  We could get 
> > together to swap stories, share a meal, and perhaps even bring along 
> > some of our prized collectibles to show to each other!  The Philly 
> > Classic in Philadelphia this March, or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this 
> > August could be possible locations.  I assume that some of you would 
> > be interested in seeing the Museum's original Akalabeth, or our 
> > genuine Wing Commander Kilrathi head!  If we could make this happen, 
> > we could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a
> > nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;) Please let me hear some ideas on
> > locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an idea like this.
> > Would YOU attend?
> 
> This sounds like a lotta fun - I would just have to find the time!  
> And autographs, well - those are always SO EXPENSIVE!  Hahahahaha!  
> I'm still pretty mystified that people want my signature...
> 
> Maybe I would bring along MY Akalabeth... ;)
> 
> You know, I have a bunch of old Synergistic Software titles in baggies 
> hereI was thinking about popping them up on eBay
> 
> - John
> 
> 
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to 
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' 
> Archives are available at: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the
swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives
are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/



--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[John Romero]

Yeah, that's not a bad idea. I do have several copies of the same games
in baggies, though. ;)  Sure, it doesn't hurt.  I was just wondering
what a "Dungeon Campaign" might go for. Heh.

BTW, I fixed the problem with my getting duplicate emails.  I had
duplicate rules in Outlook so it was filtering the email twice!  Fixed.

- John
 


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Newman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> Think long and hard before you get rid of your Synergistics 
> on ebay! Financial gain aside why would you do it? In a few 
> decades the infant hobby of computer software collecting 
> might turn into a mature, mainstream hobby. By selling these 
> titles you would be removing a direct link to the very 
> beginning of the hobby. How many hobbies can you think of 
> where acquiring first generation artifacts is possible? 
> 
> These games are also a link to the state of the industry at 
> the beginning of your career, as well as the state of the 
> art. Keep them as pristine and innocent markers of a very 
> exciting era.
> 
> Just my opinion...
> 
> John Romero wrote:
> > 
> > > 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software 
> > > collector's 'meet and greet' at an agreed upon event.  We 
> could get 
> > > together to swap stories, share a meal, and perhaps even 
> bring along 
> > > some of our prized collectibles to show to each other!  
> The Philly 
> > > Classic in Philadelphia this March, or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this 
> > > August could be possible locations.  I assume that some 
> of you would 
> > > be interested in seeing the Museum's original Akalabeth, or our 
> > > genuine Wing Commander Kilrathi head!  If we could make 
> this happen, 
> > > we could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a
> > > nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;) Please let me hear some ideas on
> > > locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an idea like this.
> > > Would YOU attend?
> > 
> > This sounds like a lotta fun - I would just have to find the time!  
> > And autographs, well - those are always SO EXPENSIVE!  Hahahahaha!  
> > I'm still pretty mystified that people want my signature...
> > 
> > Maybe I would bring along MY Akalabeth... ;)
> > 
> > You know, I have a bunch of old Synergistic Software titles 
> in baggies 
> > hereI was thinking about popping them up on eBay
> > 
> > - John
> > 
> > 
> > 
> --
> > This message was sent to you because you are currently 
> subscribed to 
> > the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' 
> > Archives are available at: 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
> 
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently 
> subscribed to the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, 
> send mail to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe 
> swcollect' Archives are available at: 
> http://www.mail-> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> 


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Chris Newman]

John,

Think long and hard before you get rid of your Synergistics on ebay!
Financial gain aside why would you do it? In a few decades the infant
hobby of computer software collecting might turn into a mature,
mainstream hobby. By selling these titles you would be removing a direct
link to the very beginning of the hobby. How many hobbies can you think
of where acquiring first generation artifacts is possible? 

These games are also a link to the state of the industry at the
beginning of your career, as well as the state of the art. Keep them as
pristine and innocent markers of a very exciting era.

Just my opinion...

John Romero wrote:
> 
> > 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software
> > collector's 'meet and greet' at an agreed upon event.  We
> > could get together to swap stories, share a meal, and perhaps
> > even bring along some of our prized collectibles to show to
> > each other!  The Philly Classic in Philadelphia this March,
> > or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this August could be possible
> > locations.  I assume that some of you would be interested in
> > seeing the Museum's original Akalabeth, or our genuine Wing
> > Commander Kilrathi head!  If we could make this happen, we
> > could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a
> > nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;) Please let me hear some ideas on
> > locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an idea like this.
> > Would YOU attend?
> 
> This sounds like a lotta fun - I would just have to find the time!  And
> autographs, well - those are always SO EXPENSIVE!  Hahahahaha!  I'm
> still pretty mystified that people want my signature...
> 
> Maybe I would bring along MY Akalabeth... ;)
> 
> You know, I have a bunch of old Synergistic Software titles in baggies
> hereI was thinking about popping them up on eBay
> 
> - John
> 
> 
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

RE: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[John Romero]

> 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software 
> collector's 'meet and greet' at an agreed upon event.  We 
> could get together to swap stories, share a meal, and perhaps 
> even bring along some of our prized collectibles to show to 
> each other!  The Philly Classic in Philadelphia this March, 
> or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this August could be possible 
> locations.  I assume that some of you would be interested in 
> seeing the Museum's original Akalabeth, or our genuine Wing 
> Commander Kilrathi head!  If we could make this happen, we 
> could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a 
> nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;) Please let me hear some ideas on 
> locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an idea like this. 
> Would YOU attend?

This sounds like a lotta fun - I would just have to find the time!  And
autographs, well - those are always SO EXPENSIVE!  Hahahahaha!  I'm
still pretty mystified that people want my signature...

Maybe I would bring along MY Akalabeth... ;)

You know, I have a bunch of old Synergistic Software titles in baggies
hereI was thinking about popping them up on eBay

- John
 


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[B.L.]

Hey everyone,

I havent been around in a while due to a sudden move back to MA among other
things.. just to let you know, I haven't completely disapeared, or abandoned
www.computergamecollector.com, but other life issues have certainly
side-tracked me.

Anyhow, I had the idea of plastic boxes (for display and storage purposes) a
few months ago and I searched the net HIGH AND LOW a number of times and
never found anything suitable either! -- your custom idea is a great one,
and the only reason why I didn't do it myself was because it was expensive
if not in the thousands for production at least -- anyway, I think it's a
great idea and I'd probably scoop at least 100 myself.

Brad
http://www.computergamecollector.com

- Original Message -
From: "Origin Museum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:01 PM
Subject: [SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!


> Although this talk about genres is fascinating, I'm gonna start a new
topic (I hope noone minds).
>
> I spent some time a few weeks ago talking to C.E. Forman on the phone.  We
covered a multitude of topics, but the two that were the most interesting
are below.  I'd like to get input on each of them.  Please post to this
topic if anyone is interested in either.
>
>
> 1.  C.E. and I got into a long discussion on how we store our collections.
We agreed that plastic baggies were a 'short-term' solution, and tried to
think up another (better) way to preserve our software for the long haul.
We agreed on the idea that if we could find some sort of inexpensive, clear,
plastic box of the clamshell variety, that would be ideal.  I searched the
net for anything that would match that description, but came up empty.  We
thought that if we could have a custom box made to a software collector's
exacting specifications, we may be able to have a plastics manufacturer
actually create our 'software collector's box in a limited run!  So, here
are the questions:
>
> *If you were able to have plastic boxes made to preserve your software,
what would be the specifications?(size, ie: LxWxH)
> *What type of box would they be?(clamshell, like an Ultima box, hinged, or
something else?)
> *How much would you pay for each box?
> *How many boxes would you buy in your first order?
>
> If we can suss out some agreeable details, and enough people were
interested in buying in large numbers, we *MAY* be able to make this happen.
I'm assuming the more that were ordered, the cheaper they would be.  I know
that if they were relatively cheap ($1.50 to $2.00 each), I would buy 200 of
these boxes immediately.  Please let me know what you all think of this.
>
> 2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software collector's
'meet and greet' at an agreed upon event.  We could get together to swap
stories, share a meal, and perhaps even bring along some of our prized
collectibles to show to each other!  The Philly Classic in Philadelphia this
March, or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this August could be possible locations.  I
assume that some of you would be interested in seeing the Museum's original
Akalabeth, or our genuine Wing Commander Kilrathi head!  If we could make
this happen, we could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a
nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;)
> Please let me hear some ideas on locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an
idea like this.
> Would YOU attend?
>
> "...Preserving Worlds..."
> Joe Garrity
> Curator of The Origin Museum
> http://originmuseum.solsector.net
>
> -
> Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
> Hundreds of choices. It's free!
> http://www.bigmailbox.com
> -
>
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
>


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

[SWCollect] New topic--Collectors UNITE!

[Origin Museum]

Although this talk about genres is fascinating, I'm gonna start a new topic (I hope 
noone minds).

I spent some time a few weeks ago talking to C.E. Forman on the phone.  We covered a 
multitude of topics, but the two that were the most interesting are below.  I'd like 
to get input on each of them.  Please post to this topic if anyone is interested in 
either.


1.  C.E. and I got into a long discussion on how we store our collections.  We agreed 
that plastic baggies were a 'short-term' solution, and tried to think up another 
(better) way to preserve our software for the long haul.  We agreed on the idea that 
if we could find some sort of inexpensive, clear, plastic box of the clamshell 
variety, that would be ideal.  I searched the net for anything that would match that 
description, but came up empty.  We thought that if we could have a custom box made to 
a software collector's exacting specifications, we may be able to have a plastics 
manufacturer actually create our 'software collector's box in a limited run!  So, here 
are the questions:

*If you were able to have plastic boxes made to preserve your software, what would be 
the specifications?(size, ie: LxWxH)
*What type of box would they be?(clamshell, like an Ultima box, hinged, or something 
else?)
*How much would you pay for each box?
*How many boxes would you buy in your first order?

If we can suss out some agreeable details, and enough people were interested in buying 
in large numbers, we *MAY* be able to make this happen.  I'm assuming the more that 
were ordered, the cheaper they would be.  I know that if they were relatively cheap 
($1.50 to $2.00 each), I would buy 200 of these boxes immediately.  Please let me know 
what you all think of this.

2.  C.E. and I also spoke of the possibility of a software collector's 'meet and 
greet' at an agreed upon event.  We could get together to swap stories, share a meal, 
and perhaps even bring along some of our prized collectibles to show to each other!  
The Philly Classic in Philadelphia this March, or Dragon*Con in Atlanta this August 
could be possible locations.  I assume that some of you would be interested in seeing 
the Museum's original Akalabeth, or our genuine Wing Commander Kilrathi head!  If we 
could make this happen, we could all at least go home with a ROMERO autograph (for a 
nomial fee, perhaps?)  ;)
Please let me hear some ideas on locations, dates, and enthusiasms for an idea like 
this.
Would YOU attend?

"...Preserving Worlds..."
Joe Garrity
Curator of The Origin Museum
http://originmuseum.solsector.net

-
Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com.
Hundreds of choices. It's free!
http://www.bigmailbox.com
-

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Edward Franks]

On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 11:18  AM, Marco Thorek wrote:
[Snip]

You know I'm all for drawing a line between RPGs and Adventures, but is
the focus of the former really on fighting? It usually is a component 
of
a RPG, but the focus? The Ultimas beginning with IV had conversation as
a strong component, in Planescape: Torment you could advance your
character through the right decisions in conversations.

	Though experience-points-from-combat is the D&D way of advancing your 
character, I'd say that RPGs focus more on improving your character's 
innate abilities (levels/stats/skill percentages) where as in 
adventures your character stays pretty much the same.  You could say 
that adventure games have you pick up items instead, but you do that as 
well in RPGs.

	I'd stay that the two big sub-genres of RPGs are 
hack-and-slash/combat/action subclass (Wizardry 1, Might and Magic, 
Diablo) and the character/story/this-is-you[1] subclass (Ultima IV - 
VII, Planescape: Torment).  Some games, Fallout, allows you to do 
either equally in a single game.

	I'd also say that Adventure games are much more likely to be linear.  
At least you tend to know what you need to do next and have areas 
completely closed off until you get to that point.  Where as RPGs tend 
to be more open-ended (Morrowind) and you can do things pretty much in 
any order you like.  Though to make RPGs more 'accessible' you have 
games like Dungeon Siege that have you run a single path from start to 
finish with no real branching or back-tracking.


[1]  In the pen-n-paper RPG world this is called role-playing as 
opposed to the hack-n-slash end of the spectrum.  I don't know if would 
want a Role-Playing -> Role-Playing classification.  That smacks too 
close to the one time proposed Homo Sapiens Sapiens  classification for 
modern man.

--

Edward Franks


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Marco Thorek]

Chris Newman schrieb:
> 
> Yes, buy it! I have two copies, trade paperback and HC. This ties in to
> a post I made a couple of months ago about everyone's top five books
> about the gaming industry and/or PC history. Hackers is on my list.

What would the other four be?

Marco

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Marco Thorek]

Stuart Feldhamer schrieb:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Your system is very interesting but I don't like it. Maybe according to YOUR
> definition of Adventure it encompasses all fantasy-style gaming, but this is
> not the commonly accepted definition of the genre. As I see it, adventures
> are games where the focus is on solving puzzles within the context of a
> story. RPGs are games where the focus is on fighting, and in the process,
> building up your characters. I've played games like Ultima, and Pool of
> Radiance, and I liked them to a point, but I got bored with the battles
> every two minutes. The battles are not incidental, but rather are the main
> component of the gameplay. A game with this type of gameplay mechanics would
> not be considered an adventure by any stretch of the imagination.

You know I'm all for drawing a line between RPGs and Adventures, but is
the focus of the former really on fighting? It usually is a component of
a RPG, but the focus? The Ultimas beginning with IV had conversation as
a strong component, in Planescape: Torment you could advance your
character through the right decisions in conversations.

Marco

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Chris Newman]

Yes, buy it! I have two copies, trade paperback and HC. This ties in to
a post I made a couple of months ago about everyone's top five books
about the gaming industry and/or PC history. Hackers is on my list.


Edward Franks wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 09:37  AM, Chris Newman wrote:
> 
> > Hackers, by Steven Levy is a great book, and has an entire chapter on
> > the creation of Spacewar. The entire book is online, and here is a link
> > to the spacewar chapter.
> >
> > http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Levy/
> > Hackers.1984.book/Chapter3.html
> 
> Levy's web page on the book
>  points people to
> Amazon.  At $10.50 it is a great bargain.
> 
> --
> 
> Edward Franks
> 
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Edward Franks]

On Thursday, January 23, 2003, at 09:37  AM, Chris Newman wrote:


Hackers, by Steven Levy is a great book, and has an entire chapter on
the creation of Spacewar. The entire book is online, and here is a link
to the spacewar chapter.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Levy/ 
Hackers.1984.book/Chapter3.html

	Levy's web page on the book  
 points people to  
Amazon.  At $10.50 it is a great bargain.

--

Edward Franks


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Chris Newman]

Hackers, by Steven Levy is a great book, and has an entire chapter on
the creation of Spacewar. The entire book is online, and here is a link
to the spacewar chapter.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Levy/Hackers.1984.book/Chapter3.html


Edward Franks wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 05:26  PM, Jim Leonard wrote:
> [Snip
> > You've presented some strong arguments and I'm going to have to think
> > about
> > them before coming up with a rebuttal.  But first let me pose some
> > situations
> > and questions:
> >
> > 1. Adventure was the first computer game, yes?
> 
> Nope.  :)  Space War was (circa 1960).  MIT students meet the PDP-1
> and the cathode-ray tube.
> 
> >   It was not an RPG.  So
> > computer adventure games came before computer RPGs, right?
> 
> Yes.  However, adventure games came from pen-n-paper RPGs.  From the
> _first_ pen-n-paper RPG to be exact which started a whole new game
> genre.  The reason I'm pointing stuff out that is outside computer
> games is that in the case of Adventure there is no prior computer game
> influences for it.  You have to look outside of computer games to see
> what the influences/lineages was.
> 
> > 2. The Adventure genre encompasses *all* fantasy-style gaming.  So RPG
> > fits
> > into it, yes?  If not, why?
> 
> No, because you you can have non-fantasy based RPGs.  Wasteland and
> Fallout for example.  (I'm assuming that you are using the term fantasy
> to mean the generic pseudo-medieval Tolkien-esque settings.)
> 
> Like with fantasy, one of the problems with the word adventure is that
> it can mean a very, very broad category.  So broad that it can become
> meaningless.  (Role-playing has the same problem as you are basically
> playing a role in every game.)
> 
> In fact, if you wanted to you could view the SSI Gold Box crpgs
> en-masse as the RPG system and each individual game as a particular
> adventure.  This would have a nice correspondence to the pen-n-paper
> world where the rules are the RPG and each module is the adventure.
> But this is really more having on an adventure rather than playing an
> "adventure" game.  :)  Darn those multiple word meanings.
> 
> --
> 
> Edward Franks
> 
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

RE: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Stuart Feldhamer]

Jim,

Your system is very interesting but I don't like it. Maybe according to YOUR
definition of Adventure it encompasses all fantasy-style gaming, but this is
not the commonly accepted definition of the genre. As I see it, adventures
are games where the focus is on solving puzzles within the context of a
story. RPGs are games where the focus is on fighting, and in the process,
building up your characters. I've played games like Ultima, and Pool of
Radiance, and I liked them to a point, but I got bored with the battles
every two minutes. The battles are not incidental, but rather are the main
component of the gameplay. A game with this type of gameplay mechanics would
not be considered an adventure by any stretch of the imagination.

Then again, if you want to invent new terminology, that's your business I
suppose.

Even according to your definition of adventure:

Adventure:  "Denotes any game where the emphasis is based on experiencing a
story through the manipulation of one or more user-controlled characters and
the environment they exist in. Gameplay mechanics emphasize decision over
action. Role-playing games (RPGs) are a common sub-genre of all adventure
games, as are the classic Sierra "Quest" series of games. Text adventures
(Interactive Fiction) are also, by definition, adventure games."

I don't think the dynamics of an RPG emphasize decision over action, unless
you're talking about the decision of whether or not I should send my 12th
level fighter to the front lines or leave him in the back, or whether I
should cast spells or attack the strongest monster first, or whatever. If
anything, this is strategy.

Stuart

-Original Message-
From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 6:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1


Hugh and Edward:

You've presented some strong arguments and I'm going to have to think about
them before coming up with a rebuttal.  But first let me pose some
situations
and questions:

1. Adventure was the first computer game, yes?  It was not an RPG.  So
computer adventure games came before computer RPGs, right?

2. The Adventure genre encompasses *all* fantasy-style gaming.  So RPG fits
into it, yes?  If not, why?

#2 is the dealbreaker.
--
http://www.MobyGames.com/
The world's most comprehensive gaming database project.

--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/




--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Edward Franks]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 05:26  PM, Jim Leonard wrote:
[Snip

You've presented some strong arguments and I'm going to have to think 
about
them before coming up with a rebuttal.  But first let me pose some 
situations
and questions:

1. Adventure was the first computer game, yes?

	Nope.  :)  Space War was (circa 1960).  MIT students meet the PDP-1 
and the cathode-ray tube.

  It was not an RPG.  So
computer adventure games came before computer RPGs, right?


	Yes.  However, adventure games came from pen-n-paper RPGs.  From the 
_first_ pen-n-paper RPG to be exact which started a whole new game 
genre.  The reason I'm pointing stuff out that is outside computer 
games is that in the case of Adventure there is no prior computer game 
influences for it.  You have to look outside of computer games to see 
what the influences/lineages was.

2. The Adventure genre encompasses *all* fantasy-style gaming.  So RPG 
fits
into it, yes?  If not, why?

	No, because you you can have non-fantasy based RPGs.  Wasteland and 
Fallout for example.  (I'm assuming that you are using the term fantasy 
to mean the generic pseudo-medieval Tolkien-esque settings.)

	Like with fantasy, one of the problems with the word adventure is that 
it can mean a very, very broad category.  So broad that it can become 
meaningless.  (Role-playing has the same problem as you are basically 
playing a role in every game.)

	In fact, if you wanted to you could view the SSI Gold Box crpgs 
en-masse as the RPG system and each individual game as a particular 
adventure.  This would have a nice correspondence to the pen-n-paper 
world where the rules are the RPG and each module is the adventure.  
But this is really more having on an adventure rather than playing an 
"adventure" game.  :)  Darn those multiple word meanings.

--

Edward Franks


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Edward Franks]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 05:33  PM, John Romero wrote:


I have a question: why do I get these messages twice? ;)


	In my case I tend to hit Reply to All so the To: line picks your work 
address and the Cc: line gets the [EMAIL PROTECTED] email address. 
(I've done it right this time.  ;-))

--

Edward Franks


--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/

RE: Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Pedro Quaresma]

>"Pedro Sez..."
As a sidenote on interfaces, I believe Ultima 6 was the first game to have both an icon-based interface _and_ >also an "initial based" one ('O' for open, 'C' for cast, etc). I think most people, even those who were not used to >the previous game, barely used the icons.<

>Times of Lore (Origin, 1989) had these same icons, and gave the Ultima 6 team the inspiration for it.

Thanks for correcting me Joe. I don't recall ToL having the "initial based" interface that's why I didn't mention it. Was ToL the first one then, or can you remember any other even older?


--
Pedro R. Quaresma
Salvador Caetano IMVT
Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division
Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / 
Lotus Notes Admnistration and Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity." - Albert Einstein
 




ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online
http://www.toyota.pt

Re: Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Pedro Quaresma]

Hugh Falk wrote,
>I found one flaw right here:
>
>"Since there is no such thing as an RPG that isn't also an adventure, or strategy, or action game, RPG becomes a >sub-genre instead of a main one." 
>
>There are certainly RPGs that aren't adventure (or other genre) games. 

Agreed. I think Hero Quest (not Hero's Quest aka QfG1) is another good example of this too. And maybe Temple of Apshai, but haven't played it enough to know for sure.

--
Pedro R. Quaresma
Salvador Caetano IMVT
Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division
Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / 
Lotus Notes Admnistration and Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity." - Albert Einstein
 




ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online
http://www.toyota.pt

Re: [SWCollect] King's Quest 1

[Pedro Quaresma]

Jim Leonard wrote:
>Jagged Alliance: Strategy, subgenres Role-Playing.  
>Birthright: Same as Jagged Alliance, with Medieval Fantasy thrown in.
>Europa 1400: The Guild: Strategy, subgenres Managerial.

I can agree on the first two, but I'd think this one could be Adventure :)

>King of Dragon Pass: Adventure (finally) + Strategy, subgenres Managerial,
>Role-Playing.  (Wow, this game looks interesting -- I'll try to play it)

I have to disagree once again, this one should be primarily Strategy, and with no Role-Playing :) 

On a sidenote, yes, this game is tremendously interesting, (although difficult due to the complex Managerial part) and amazing in the perspective that it has _no_ animations whatsoever! 

--
Pedro R. Quaresma
Salvador Caetano IMVT
Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division
Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / 
Lotus Notes Admnistration and Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity." - Albert Einstein
 




ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online
http://www.toyota.pt