subject:"\[symfony\-devs\] Re\: The Symfony mailing\-lists on Google"

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-05-31 Thread lucasaba

Any news about this topic ?

Il giorno martedì 26 marzo 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1, Fabien Potencier ha scritto:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

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Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-04-07 Thread Michael C

Please see earlier in this discussion as I already explained phpBB 
supports getting emails being sent to your inbox - 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/symfony-devs/JaNoeYIkFqc/g7bwJsr0U2MJ


--
Thanks,
Michael Cullum

Marco Pivetta wrote:


On 5 April 2013 02:05, Michael C > wrote:


It's a lot easier to watch the topics you want and ignore those
you don't care about than on a mailing list. Also the reading
through a topic is easier on a forum than through an inbox or on
Google groups web UI.


My personal point is getting all discussions - regardless what. I 
don't want to have a forum where I have to look for things to discuss 
or people to help. Let the topics come at my inbox, or I'll just 
silently ignore everything :)




Marco Pivetta

http://twitter.com/Ocramius

http://ocramius.github.com/
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Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-04-05 Thread Marco Pivetta

On 5 April 2013 02:05, Michael C  wrote:



>   It's a lot easier to watch the topics you want and ignore those you
> don't care about than on a mailing list. Also the reading through a topic
> is easier on a forum than through an inbox or on Google groups web UI.
>
>
My personal point is getting all discussions - regardless what. I don't
want to have a forum where I have to look for things to discuss or people
to help. Let the topics come at my inbox, or I'll just silently ignore
everything :)



Marco Pivetta

http://twitter.com/Ocramius

http://ocramius.github.com/

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Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-04-04 Thread Michael C


Lars Janssen wrote:


jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't
seem to
regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I
know. So, that works.


I run a phpBB forum for music fans in the UK. I found the software 
needed a lot of customisation before I was happy with it, and at the 
same time I didn't find the code base very easy to work with (with 
apologies to the phpBB developers as it's a matter of taste, but I 
prefer code to be in small functions rather than large functions or in 
the global scope!)


The only technical forum I've regularly used based on phpBB was the 
Gentoo forums, which I felt worked very well. The trick with any forum 
is not to make more sub-forums than you definitely need, or you'll end 
up with lots of quiet forums and nobody knows what belongs where.
We agree the code of phpBB 3.0.x isn't the best code ever and due to 
this it is something that has improved dramatically in 3.1 (which is 
currently nearing alpha).


Quite a few technical forums use phpBB - 
https://www.phpbb.com/showcase/tag/open-source/ and 
https://www.phpbb.com/showcase/tag/technology/


At phpBB, we do, as you'd expect, also use phpBB for development forums* 
and it works well. People choose which discussions they follow and they 
can choose to subscribe to certain topics/forums by email.It's a lot 
easier to watch the topics you want and ignore those you don't care 
about than on a mailing list. Also the reading through a topic is easier 
on a forum than through an inbox or on Google groups web UI.


* - https://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/

--
Thanks,
Michael C
phpBB

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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-04-04 Thread Lars Janssen

Hi all,

On Tuesday, 26 March 2013 06:52:00 UTC, Fabien Potencier wrote:

> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>

I guess I'm in the minority here by preferring *not* to have it based on an 
email client. I end up filtering list mail to skip the inbox, so still have 
to remember to 'visit' the mailing list (folder) to read it.

Although, I've secretly suspected that many developers prefer mailing lists 
over forums because they don't appear as accessible to the average newbie, 
and so tend to have a better signal to noise ratio. ;)

Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
>
overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>

I wouldn't be so quick to rule out using a third party. The concept of 
outsourcing is still valid; there are people who specialise in 
building/maintaining community software, economies of scale etc. The 
problem is trusting a free service from a huge company like Google. Perhaps 
other organisations have more incentive to care about the community 
software they host?

> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>

I run a phpBB forum for music fans in the UK. I found the software needed a 
lot of customisation before I was happy with it, and at the same time I 
didn't find the code base very easy to work with (with apologies to the 
phpBB developers as it's a matter of taste, but I prefer code to be in 
small functions rather than large functions or in the global scope!)

The only technical forum I've regularly used based on phpBB was the Gentoo 
forums, which I felt worked very well. The trick with any forum is not to 
make more sub-forums than you definitely need, or you'll end up with lots 
of quiet forums and nobody knows what belongs where.

Thanks

Lars.

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Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-04-02 Thread Michael C

That can be done with a topic icons (we use a tick at phpBB.com - 
https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewforum.php?f=46 ) but there is also a 
MOD that adds topic prefixes - https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/tmm/


--

Thanks,

Michael Cullum

phpBB


lucasaba wrote:

A+
I absolutely prefer the old forum.

Having all the posts in one place, be able to focus on the arguments I 
prefer.
I'm not a fan of the mailng list. I don't like how google groups 
aranges discussion. It's hard to read trought the posts.
Expecially new users should find easily all solutions and post. The 
forum can be ordered, arranged and personalized.


Furthermore, having the ability to change the topic title with a 
[solved] flag is a must, if you are looking for the solution for your 
problems.
The best, IMO, would be to have the ability to mix forum and Q&A site 
leaving the users the ability to vote for the best answer.


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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-04-01 Thread lucasaba

A+
I absolutely prefer the old forum. 

Having all the posts in one place, be able to focus on the arguments I 
prefer.
I'm not a fan of the mailng list. I don't like how google groups aranges 
discussion. It's hard to read trought the posts.
Expecially new users should find easily all solutions and post. The forum 
can be ordered, arranged and personalized.

Furthermore, having the ability to change the topic title with a [solved] 
flag is a must, if you are looking for the solution for your problems.
The best, IMO, would be to have the ability to mix forum and Q&A site 
leaving the users the ability to vote for the best answer.

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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-28 Thread Mike

I do like option C. Discourse would be the best solution. Easy to sign up 
(one button - gmail, twitter, fb etc) great interface and modern look. 
Email notifications as well. Time to change something

On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 6:52:00 AM UTC, Fabien Potencier wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-28 Thread Matthias Althaus

>But the forum has something annoying: the need of post several times to be 
a "trusted" member. Perhaps moderation on the registration or integration 
with Sensio Labs Connect will be better.
That is/was simply required due to the fact that phpBB failed to prevent a 
massive amount of spam posts. At peak times we had like 100+ spam posts a 
day. Some usefull anti-spam method should make moderation of new posts 
irrelevant.

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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-28 Thread Elnur Abdurrakhimov

Personally I love Stack Overflow and don't use the forum and mailing list 
at all — this is my first post here. I use SO to answer questions and IRC 
for passing discussions.

SO is great for Q&A but is not meant for discussions and IRC is too much 
stuff without a particular topic, so they're not a replacement for a 
mailing list or forum — it's not either one or another.

As of forums, personally I can't stand them. Even though I don't use 
mailing lists, they feel better than forums anyway.

On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:52:00 AM UTC+4, Fabien Potencier wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-28 Thread Michael C (UKB)

Firstly, I have a conflict of interest (I'm a phpBB Team Member) so I'll 
just offer information/answer questions. My preference is obvious.

With regards to emails, you can, if you wish, subscribe to a forum/topic 
and you will then receive new emails for new topics/posts. However they 
don't generally include the topic/post content however 
https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=1095015 adds the 
content to the emails. A note about MODs for phpBB, they'll quite often 
stay in RC for years due to the way their release cycles work and stable 
means getting your MOD validated (which is a strict process) and into the 
phpBB customisations database. You cannot reply to these emails (or you can 
but it won't add a reply to the topic), however, again, 
https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=603719 might solve 
that problem. The latter is no longer supported by the author (he isn't 
active any more) and doesn't work on latest phpBB I'm sure it won't be too 
much work to get it working.

If your not a fan of the whole fora splitting up discussions on the board 
idea then there is something called phpBB Basic which makes the board into 
one forum. Screenshots, Info, Download etc. is available from 
https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/phpbbasic/ or a demo at 
http://www.davidiq.net/phpbbasic/ However segregating development from 
support, as is done now on the two MLs, might a good idea?

Thanks,
Michael Cullum
phpBB Team Member

On Tuesday, 26 March 2013 06:52:00 UTC, Fabien Potencier wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

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Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Albert Casademont Filella

Good Old Mailman is for me the best solution :)


On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Matt Robinson  wrote:

> As far as I know, PHPbb doesn't do email round-tripping (putting email
> replies back on the site), but something like https://postmarkapp.com or
> http://context.io could help that integration if necessary. I've tried
> doing email integration manually before, and it's one of those things where
> you can get 90% of the way in no time at all, and then (since email
> implementations are so varied and so horrible), the remaining 10% will kill
> you :P.
>
> As Fabien pointed out, we've had the forums since 2005, so I suspect that
> most of the people reading this largely prefer the mailing list (in other
> words, we've had the choice for years, and we've chosen not to use the
> forums). The question is whether to respect that or force the communities
> together. If there's a clear benefit to doing so, then we should probably
> just get it over with. If nothing else, it should be a boost to the phpbb
> development community ;). If on the other hand merging the communities is
> out of nothing more than a desire for neatness (not saying it is), then we
> should probably just set up Mailman or Lamson or whatever and carry on as
> if nothing happened.
>
> I used to run a moderately sized (hundreds of users) mailing list and
> transitioned it to a moderately sized (thousands of users) forum. The
> biggest difference I saw was that with a mailing list, everyone sees
> everything; it's self-limiting (and limited). With a forum, people tend to
> specialise into sub-forums as the amount of traffic grows, becoming less
> cohesive but allowing for a lot more growth. It also seemed that mailing
> list and forum had very different tones - the format and delivery of the
> discussion have an effect on the kind of discussion that's had. This isn't
> necessarily a bad thing - more people get actively involved in discussions
> on forums than they did on mailing lists, where they'd usually just lurk.
> It means more work for moderators to keep everything on topic, but it also
> means that there's more involvement from the wider community.
>
>
> On 26 Mar 2013, at 09:15, David Buchmann  wrote:
>
> > can phpbb also handle answering to emails? sort of like github or jira,
> > where an answer email creates a new comment on the issue...
> >
> > then i think we could take this as a chance to re-unite the forum and
> > mailinglist communities.
> >
> > if it won't be possible to answer by email, we either need somebody to
> > build such a plugin or find something else imho.
> >
> > cheers,david
> >
> >
> > Am 26.03.2013 08:45, schrieb Bob den Otter:
> >> PHPBB supports sending emails "out of the box". Both for threads you've
> >> posted in as well as forums/threads you've subscribed to. Not that i'm
> >> saying it's the best way to go, just to let you know that this isn't a
> >> big reason _not_ to choose it.
> >>
> >> Personally, i'd think a Stack Overflow or Discourse site would work
> great.
> >>
> >> Cheers, Bob.
> >>
> >> Op dinsdag 26 maart 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1 schreef Fabien Potencier het
> >> volgende:
> >>
> >>Hi all,
> >>
> >>Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone
> for
> >>the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some
> weeks
> >>ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The
> >>mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about
> >>what happened.
> >>
> >>So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for
> >>our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to
> >>replace
> >>the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best
> one
> >>to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also
> impact
> >>all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig,
> ...):
> >>
> >>* A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum
> >>(forum.symfony-project.org ).
> >>
> >>   * Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of
> >>registered
> >>people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's
> written
> >>with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also
> >>part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community,
> >>which is split right now.
> >>
> >>   * Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want
> >>everything to
> >>happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that
> >>way too).
> >>
> >>* B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of
> >>service as Google Groups
> >>
> >>   * Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now.
> >>
> >>   * Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of
> >>some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old
> >>and outdated. The only one

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Kevin Bond

I like the idea of a modern Q&A site - I guess option C.  Code highlighting 
would be fabulous.

On Tuesday, 26 March 2013 07:21:13 UTC-4, Matt Robinson wrote:
>
> As far as I know, PHPbb doesn't do email round-tripping (putting email 
> replies back on the site), but something like https://postmarkapp.com or 
> http://context.io could help that integration if necessary. I've tried 
> doing email integration manually before, and it's one of those things where 
> you can get 90% of the way in no time at all, and then (since email 
> implementations are so varied and so horrible), the remaining 10% will kill 
> you :P. 
>
> As Fabien pointed out, we've had the forums since 2005, so I suspect that 
> most of the people reading this largely prefer the mailing list (in other 
> words, we've had the choice for years, and we've chosen not to use the 
> forums). The question is whether to respect that or force the communities 
> together. If there's a clear benefit to doing so, then we should probably 
> just get it over with. If nothing else, it should be a boost to the phpbb 
> development community ;). If on the other hand merging the communities is 
> out of nothing more than a desire for neatness (not saying it is), then we 
> should probably just set up Mailman or Lamson or whatever and carry on as 
> if nothing happened. 
>
> I used to run a moderately sized (hundreds of users) mailing list and 
> transitioned it to a moderately sized (thousands of users) forum. The 
> biggest difference I saw was that with a mailing list, everyone sees 
> everything; it's self-limiting (and limited). With a forum, people tend to 
> specialise into sub-forums as the amount of traffic grows, becoming less 
> cohesive but allowing for a lot more growth. It also seemed that mailing 
> list and forum had very different tones - the format and delivery of the 
> discussion have an effect on the kind of discussion that's had. This isn't 
> necessarily a bad thing - more people get actively involved in discussions 
> on forums than they did on mailing lists, where they'd usually just lurk. 
> It means more work for moderators to keep everything on topic, but it also 
> means that there's more involvement from the wider community. 
>
>
> On 26 Mar 2013, at 09:15, David Buchmann > 
> wrote: 
>
> > can phpbb also handle answering to emails? sort of like github or jira, 
> > where an answer email creates a new comment on the issue... 
> > 
> > then i think we could take this as a chance to re-unite the forum and 
> > mailinglist communities. 
> > 
> > if it won't be possible to answer by email, we either need somebody to 
> > build such a plugin or find something else imho. 
> > 
> > cheers,david 
> > 
> > 
> > Am 26.03.2013 08:45, schrieb Bob den Otter: 
> >> PHPBB supports sending emails "out of the box". Both for threads you've 
> >> posted in as well as forums/threads you've subscribed to. Not that i'm 
> >> saying it's the best way to go, just to let you know that this isn't a 
> >> big reason _not_ to choose it. 
> >> 
> >> Personally, i'd think a Stack Overflow or Discourse site would work 
> great. 
> >> 
> >> Cheers, Bob.   
> >> 
> >> Op dinsdag 26 maart 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1 schreef Fabien Potencier het 
> >> volgende: 
> >> 
> >>Hi all, 
> >> 
> >>Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone 
> for 
> >>the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some 
> weeks 
> >>ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> >>mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google 
> about 
> >>what happened. 
> >> 
> >>So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google 
> for 
> >>our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to 
> >>replace 
> >>the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best 
> one 
> >>to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also 
> impact 
> >>all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, 
> ...): 
> >> 
> >>* A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> >>(forum.symfony-project.org ). 
> >> 
> >>   * Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of 
> >>registered 
> >>people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's 
> written 
> >>with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are 
> also 
> >>part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> >>which is split right now. 
> >> 
> >>   * Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want 
> >>everything to 
> >>happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB 
> that 
> >>way too). 
> >> 
> >>* B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind 
> of 
> >>service as Google Groups 
> >> 
> >>   * Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
> >> 
> >>   * Con

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Matt Robinson

As far as I know, PHPbb doesn't do email round-tripping (putting email replies 
back on the site), but something like https://postmarkapp.com or 
http://context.io could help that integration if necessary. I've tried doing 
email integration manually before, and it's one of those things where you can 
get 90% of the way in no time at all, and then (since email implementations are 
so varied and so horrible), the remaining 10% will kill you :P. 

As Fabien pointed out, we've had the forums since 2005, so I suspect that most 
of the people reading this largely prefer the mailing list (in other words, 
we've had the choice for years, and we've chosen not to use the forums). The 
question is whether to respect that or force the communities together. If 
there's a clear benefit to doing so, then we should probably just get it over 
with. If nothing else, it should be a boost to the phpbb development community 
;). If on the other hand merging the communities is out of nothing more than a 
desire for neatness (not saying it is), then we should probably just set up 
Mailman or Lamson or whatever and carry on as if nothing happened.

I used to run a moderately sized (hundreds of users) mailing list and 
transitioned it to a moderately sized (thousands of users) forum. The biggest 
difference I saw was that with a mailing list, everyone sees everything; it's 
self-limiting (and limited). With a forum, people tend to specialise into 
sub-forums as the amount of traffic grows, becoming less cohesive but allowing 
for a lot more growth. It also seemed that mailing list and forum had very 
different tones - the format and delivery of the discussion have an effect on 
the kind of discussion that's had. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - more 
people get actively involved in discussions on forums than they did on mailing 
lists, where they'd usually just lurk. It means more work for moderators to 
keep everything on topic, but it also means that there's more involvement from 
the wider community.

On 26 Mar 2013, at 09:15, David Buchmann  wrote:

> can phpbb also handle answering to emails? sort of like github or jira,
> where an answer email creates a new comment on the issue...
> 
> then i think we could take this as a chance to re-unite the forum and
> mailinglist communities.
> 
> if it won't be possible to answer by email, we either need somebody to
> build such a plugin or find something else imho.
> 
> cheers,david
> 
> 
> Am 26.03.2013 08:45, schrieb Bob den Otter:
>> PHPBB supports sending emails "out of the box". Both for threads you've
>> posted in as well as forums/threads you've subscribed to. Not that i'm
>> saying it's the best way to go, just to let you know that this isn't a
>> big reason _not_ to choose it. 
>> 
>> Personally, i'd think a Stack Overflow or Discourse site would work great. 
>> 
>> Cheers, Bob.  
>> 
>> Op dinsdag 26 maart 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1 schreef Fabien Potencier het
>> volgende:
>> 
>>Hi all,
>> 
>>Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for
>>the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks
>>ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The
>>mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about
>>what happened.
>> 
>>So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for
>>our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to
>>replace
>>the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one
>>to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact
>>all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...):
>> 
>>* A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum
>>(forum.symfony-project.org ).
>> 
>>   * Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of
>>registered
>>people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written
>>with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also
>>part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community,
>>which is split right now.
>> 
>>   * Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want
>>everything to
>>happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that
>>way too).
>> 
>>* B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of
>>service as Google Groups
>> 
>>   * Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now.
>> 
>>   * Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of
>>some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old
>>and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson
>>(http://lamsonproject.org/).
>> 
>>* C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently
>>released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is
>>Open-Source.
>> 
>>Of course, relying on

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Matt Robinson

There's also other Symfony-related projects to consider - is symfony.com right 
for Twig and Swiftmailer? Maybe! Perhaps sensiolabs makes more sense, if we're 
looking at the network as a whole?

On 26 Mar 2013, at 10:07, Wouter J  wrote:

> While Q/A systems are great and have a great place to get information, I 
> think a forum will fit better. And Discourse is a great system, but not 
> meaned to work as a forum IMO.
> 
> I agree with A, but I would like to change it to forum.symfony.com (or 
> help.symfony.com or something else). symfony-project is mostly related to the 
> Symfony1 project, not the 2 project.
> 
> -- Wouter J
> 
> Op dinsdag 26 maart 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1 schreef Fabien Potencier het volgende:
> Hi all, 
> 
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
> 
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
> 
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
> 
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
> 
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
> 
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
> 
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
> 
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
> 
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
> 
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
> 
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
> 
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
> 
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
> 
> What do you want us to do? 
> 
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
> 
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> If you want to report a vulnerability issue on Symfony, please read the 
> procedure on http://symfony.com/security
>  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "symfony developers" group.
> To post to this group, send email to symfony-devs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> symfony-devs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/symfony-devs?hl=en
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Symfony developers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to symfony-devs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>  
>  

-- 
-- 
If you want to report a vulnerability issue on Symfony, please read the 
procedure on http://symfony.com/security

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "symfony developers" group.
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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Wouter J

While Q/A systems are great and have a great place to get information, I 
think a forum will fit better. And Discourse is a great system, but not 
meaned to work as a forum IMO.

I agree with A, but I would like to change it to forum.symfony.com (or 
help.symfony.com or something else). symfony-project is mostly related to 
the Symfony1 project, not the 2 project.

-- Wouter J

Op dinsdag 26 maart 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1 schreef Fabien Potencier het 
volgende:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

-- 
-- 
If you want to report a vulnerability issue on Symfony, please read the 
procedure on http://symfony.com/security

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "symfony developers" group.
To post to this group, send email to symfony-devs@googlegroups.com
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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Drak

Hi Fabien,

Why not use Mailman - it's pretty standard and work perfectly: provides a 
way for people to sign up and manage their subscriptions and has a web 
archive. You cant post online, but it's basically the same as google groups 
for everything else. I think the best thing is a mailing list personally. 
It's really easy to setup on your own servers, or you can even run a 
virtual machine with minimal RAM.

Regards,

Drak


On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 6:52:00 AM UTC, Fabien Potencier wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

-- 
-- 
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Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread David Buchmann

can phpbb also handle answering to emails? sort of like github or jira,
where an answer email creates a new comment on the issue...

then i think we could take this as a chance to re-unite the forum and
mailinglist communities.

if it won't be possible to answer by email, we either need somebody to
build such a plugin or find something else imho.

cheers,david


Am 26.03.2013 08:45, schrieb Bob den Otter:
> PHPBB supports sending emails "out of the box". Both for threads you've
> posted in as well as forums/threads you've subscribed to. Not that i'm
> saying it's the best way to go, just to let you know that this isn't a
> big reason _not_ to choose it. 
> 
> Personally, i'd think a Stack Overflow or Discourse site would work great. 
> 
> Cheers, Bob.  
> 
> Op dinsdag 26 maart 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1 schreef Fabien Potencier het
> volgende:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about
> what happened.
> 
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to
> replace
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...):
> 
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum
> (forum.symfony-project.org ).
> 
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of
> registered
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community,
> which is split right now.
> 
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want
> everything to
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that
> way too).
> 
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of
> service as Google Groups
> 
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now.
> 
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson
> (http://lamsonproject.org/).
> 
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is
> Open-Source.
> 
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option.
> 
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I
> know. So, that works.
> 
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own
> mailing-lists.
> 
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive.
> 
> What do you want us to do?
> 
> Cheers,
> Fabien
> 
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer
> sensiolabs.com  | symfony.com
>  | fabien.potencier.org
> 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> If you want to report a vulnerability issue on Symfony, please read the
> procedure on http://symfony.com/security
>  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "symfony developers" group.
> To post to this group, send email to symfony-devs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> symfony-devs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/symfony-devs?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Symfony developers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to symfony-devs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>  
>  

-- 
Liip AG // Agile Web Development // T +41 26 422 25 11
CH-1700 Fribourg // PGP 0xA581808B // www.liip.ch

-- 
-- 
If you want to report a vulnerability issue on Symfony, please read the 
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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread David Allix

I am for the Q&A website too, design is more clear than the current forum.
The vote feature is great for easily have a look on the most useful ask. 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/symfony2?sort=votes&pagesize=30

Or a redesign of the current forum and more promote of Stackoverflow..

On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:15:36 AM UTC+1, umpirsky wrote:
>
> In addition to this, I would like to suggest adding dedicated stack 
> overflow website or hosting something like http://www.osqa.net/.
>
> I find Q&A website more suitable for answering questions. How things work 
> now is that you will get answer faster on stack overflow then on users 
> mailing list, probably because people like to get credits for their answer.
>
> Of course, for symfony-devs mailing list is perfect solution.
>
> On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:52:00 AM UTC+1, Fabien Potencier wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, 
>>
>> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
>> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
>> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
>> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
>> what happened. 
>>
>> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
>> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
>> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
>> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
>> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>>
>> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
>> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>>
>>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
>> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
>> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
>> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
>> which is split right now. 
>>
>>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
>> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
>> way too). 
>>
>> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
>> service as Google Groups 
>>
>>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>>
>>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
>> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
>> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
>> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>>
>> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
>> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
>> Open-Source. 
>>
>> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
>> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>>
>> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
>> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
>> know. So, that works. 
>>
>> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
>> mailing-lists. 
>>
>> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
>> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>>
>> What do you want us to do? 
>>
>> Cheers, 
>> Fabien 
>>
>> -- 
>> Fabien Potencier 
>> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
>> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
>> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>>
>

-- 
-- 
If you want to report a vulnerability issue on Symfony, please read the 
procedure on http://symfony.com/security

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "symfony developers" group.
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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Bob den Otter

PHPBB supports sending emails "out of the box". Both for threads you've 
posted in as well as forums/threads you've subscribed to. Not that i'm 
saying it's the best way to go, just to let you know that this isn't a big 
reason _not_ to choose it. 

Personally, i'd think a Stack Overflow or Discourse site would work great. 

Cheers, Bob.  

Op dinsdag 26 maart 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1 schreef Fabien Potencier het 
volgende:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

-- 
-- 
If you want to report a vulnerability issue on Symfony, please read the 
procedure on http://symfony.com/security

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "symfony developers" group.
To post to this group, send email to symfony-devs@googlegroups.com
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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Osman Üngür

Maybe custom forum software with email capabilities ?

Daily summary emails
Topic subscription  \Integration with email replies 
like github issues
Instant emails/


26 Mart 2013 Salı 08:52:00 UTC+2 tarihinde Fabien Potencier yazdı:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

-- 
-- 
If you want to report a vulnerability issue on Symfony, please read the 
procedure on http://symfony.com/security

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Groups "symfony developers" group.
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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread umpirsky

In addition to this, I would like to suggest adding dedicated stack 
overflow website or hosting something like http://www.osqa.net/.

I find Q&A website more suitable for answering questions. How things work 
now is that you will get answer faster on stack overflow then on users 
mailing list, probably because people like to get credits for their answer.

Of course, for symfony-devs mailing list is perfect solution.

On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:52:00 AM UTC+1, Fabien Potencier wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> Unfortunately and for no reasons, the Symfony2 mailing-list is gone for 
> the second time in a very short period of time. It happened some weeks 
> ago and I was not able to contact anyone about the issue. The 
> mailing-list came back and still not a single email from Google about 
> what happened. 
>
> So, I think it's time to move on. We cannot be hostages of Google for 
> our support and our knowledge base. There are several options to replace 
> the Google mailing-lists and I want to get your opinion on the best one 
> to choose before doing anything (the decision will probably also impact 
> all my other mailing-lists on Google - Swiftmailer, Silex, Twig, ...): 
>
> * A - Migrate all the discussions on the Symfony forum 
> (forum.symfony-project.org). 
>
>* Pros: it's online since 2005, it has a massive amount of registered 
> people, we already have a big archive of knowledge there, it's written 
> with phpBB (which uses Symfony and several core team members are also 
> part of the Symfony community), it allows us to unify the community, 
> which is split right now. 
>
>* Cons: Some people don't like forums because they want everything to 
> happen in an email client (but it might be possible to use phpBB that 
> way too). 
>
> * B - Host our own mailing-list software and provide the same kind of 
> service as Google Groups 
>
>* Pros: The disruption won't be big with what we have now. 
>
>* Cons: The community will still be split in two, only because of 
> some preferences. What kind of software to use? All of them seems old 
> and outdated. The only one that looks great is Lamson 
> (http://lamsonproject.org/). 
>
> * C - Use a more "modern" approach to discussions like the recently 
> released Discourse software (http://www.discourse.org/) -- which is 
> Open-Source. 
>
> Of course, relying on a third-party is not an option anymore. So, stack 
> overflow or any other forum/mailing-list providers are not an option. 
>
> jQuery chose the first option (A) some time ago and they don't seem to 
> regret it. Drupal also uses a forum and no mailing-list as far as I 
> know. So, that works. 
>
> Zend Framework and many other Open-Source projects hosts their own 
> mailing-lists. 
>
> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>
> Cheers, 
> Fabien 
>
> -- 
> Fabien Potencier 
> SensioLabs CEO - Symfony lead developer 
> sensiolabs.com | symfony.com | fabien.potencier.org 
> +33 1 40 99 80 80 
>

-- 
-- 
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procedure on http://symfony.com/security

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Groups "symfony developers" group.
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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

2013-03-26 Thread Stefano Sala

Il giorno martedì 26 marzo 2013 07:52:00 UTC+1, Fabien Potencier ha scritto:

> My personal preference is either A or B without a clear winner. A is 
> probably better for the community, B is probably less disruptive. 
>
> What do you want us to do? 
>

Option A is also my preferred, but please change the page title and move 
"symfony framework forum" to the end.
Doing this let you see better titles in search engines results page.

e.g. from:
 - symfony framework forum • View topic - Symfony2 on MAMP: date ...
to:
 - Symfony2 on MAMP: date.timezone warning - symfony ...

It's more contextual and the meaningful part of the titles wouldn't be 
truncated.

Oh, and it would be great to have also localised support forum, like Gentoo 
does.

Cheers!
Stefano

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[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

Re: [symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

[symfony-devs] Re: The Symfony mailing-lists on Google

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