Re: t-and-f: Great day for records
Ed, I bet you could fit all the women in the world who ever ran a 30 km on the track in your car and still have room for me and Marty. Tom - Original Message - From: "edndana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ""Athletics"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Great day for records > > * World women's 30,000 meters - 1:45:50, Tegla Loroupe (KEN), Warstein > > Is that time right? That is a ridiculously slow 30K time for a world > record - that's three 35:17 10K's. Radcliffe probably split 8-10 minutes > faster at her WR marathon. > > - Ed Parrot > > >
Re: t-and-f: Chapa protesting???
Cuba, I think. - Original Message - From: "Brian McGuire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Chapa protesting??? > What I find most interesting is the caption: "Salazar competed in the 1980 > and 1984 Olympics." Who'd he run for in '80? > Brian > - Original Message - > From: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:54 AM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Chapa protesting??? > > > > Looks like he's also holding Salazar back... Maybe they were both > > protesting something? > > > > Dan > > > > --- Lee Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ah. I see. Maybe he was just a little slow. (Irony intended) > > > > > > ;-) > > > Lee > > > > > > >I assume he means "why is Chapa's jersey inside out?" > > > > > > > >At 12:31 PM 6/19/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > > >>>What's the deal with this pix? Was Rudy protesting something? > > > >>> > > > >>>http://libweb.uoregon.edu/exhibits/track_and_field/tf05.html > > > >> > > > >>Looks to me like it's just a photo gallery. > > > > = > > http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design & Custom Programming > > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax > >/ / > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > >
t-and-f: Fw: Midsummer Lights story
I am just back from vacation that started immediatly after the relay. Ray wrote a charming story of his solo in the relay. Tom - Original Message - From: "Ray Charbonneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 5:55 PM Subject: Midsummer Lights story > http://home.comcast.net/~rcharbon/midlights/midlight.htm > -- > Ray Charbonneau > http://www.y42k.com/ > > >
Re: t-and-f: Cathy Freeman retires
I am troubled by the term, "recent history". Are Ron Clarke, Herb Elliot,
the heros of my youth, not recent history but, what? Ancient?
Old Tom
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Cathy Freeman retires
> Uri, how about Herb Elliott? That cat won a few races & broke a couple
> records.
>
> john
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/16/2003 3:16:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Subj: Re: t-and-f: Cathy Freeman retires
> Date: 7/16/2003 3:16:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sender:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Post, Marty)
> CC:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ('[EMAIL PROTECTED] uoregon. edu'
> (E-mail))
>
> Marty and everybody,
>
> It is appalling to name Cathy Freeman the arguably greatest ever
Australian
> athlete. She does not even get close to measuring up with Ron Clarke, a
man
> who
> broke numerous world records (she broke none) and revolutionized our idea
of
> what can be achieved in 10,000 m run, slicing 36 seconds of the WR in
1965.
> Nor
> can she be compared with superstars like Shirley Strickland- De La Hunty,
> the
> only person in history who broke WRS in both the 100 meters and the high
> hurdle
> race (in the latter- the distance then was 80m, not 100, she also won
> back-to-
> back Olympic gold medals in 1952 and 1956), Betty Cuthbert, Quadruple
> Olympic
> champion: winner of the 100 and 200m and the 4 by 100m relay (in WR time)
in
> 1956 and incredibly the 400 meters 8 years later, in Tokyo 1964,
(clocking
> 52.01) and was the only woman in the entire history of the sports to win
> sprint
> golds in all 3 events). And finally: Marjorie Jackson, sprint queen of
> athletics in the early 1950s, world record holder as well and double gold
> medal
> winner in Helsinki 1952.
>
> Australian sports expert would laugh at the thought of placing Freeman in
> the
> same line with any of these women. I have not mentioned Raylene Boyle and
> other greats in Australian athletics, and there is an excellent book on
> Australian athletics written by Paul Jenes, current president of the ATFS
> (Association of Track and Field Statisticians), for those interested in
> learning about it in more depth. Highly recommended reading of a nation
that
> in
> the past excelled far beyond the size of its population.
>
> Freeman was devastated by the euphoria surrounding her after the Sydney
> Olympics, lost her family and now also what could have been left of her
> career.
> A sad sight, but not a reason to artificially lift her to the top of
> Australian
> athletics all-time.
>
> Uri Goldbourt
>
> Quoting "Post, Marty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > Cathy Freeman, Australia's greatest athlete in recent history and
arguably
> > its greatest ever, has quit the sport. Saying simply "my heart's not in
> it",
> > Freeman told Australian athletics head coach Keith Connor of her
decision
> in
> > London yesterday. "I've lost that want, that desire, that passion, that
> > drive," said. "I don't care any more."
> >
> >
> > More at:
> >
> > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/15/1058035006894.html
> >
>
>
>
>
> -
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>
>
> --- Headers
> Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Received: from rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (rly-yb01.mail.aol.com
[172.18.146.1])
> by air-yb04.mail.aol.com (v94.1) with ESMTP id MAILINYB41-17c3f14fbc612d;
Wed,
> 16 Jul 2003 03:16:31 -0400
> Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (darkwing.uoregon.edu
[128.223.142.13])
> by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (v95.1) with ESMTP id
MAILRELAYINYB110-17c3f14fbc612d;
> Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:16:26 -0400
> Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu ([EMAIL PROTECTED] [127.0.0.1])
> by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G6j2oB016734
> for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:45:02
> -0700 (PDT)
> Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED])
> by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6G6j2br016733
> for t-and-f-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:45:02 -0700 (PDT)
> Received: from manray.tau.ac.il (manray.tau.ac.il [132.66.17.10])
> by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6G6ixoB016712
> for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:45:00 -0700
(PDT)
> Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED])
> by manray.tau.ac.il (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h6G6isV07821;
> Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:44:54 +0300
> X-Authentication-Warning: manray.tau.ac.il: nobody set sender to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f
> Received: from sackler921-1.tau.ac.il (sackler921-1.tau.ac.il
> [132.66.34.227])
> by webmail2.tau.ac.il (IMP) with HTTP
> for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:44:53 +0300
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:44:53 +0300
> From: [EMAI
Re: t-and-f: Linz Results _ Fredericks 10.14/20.38 wins, Wignall 110H NR - 13.28
Ok, I love Frankie, how old is he? - Original Message - From: "Peter Stuart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kebba Tolbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:49 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Linz Results _ Fredericks 10.14/20.38 wins, Wignall 110H NR - 13.28 > A great day for Frankie. You got to love this guy. He was running while > some of the other guys were still learning how to walk. > Go Frankie !!! :):):) > > Official Result Men - 100 METRESWind:0m/s > Pos Athlete Nat Mark > 1 Fredericks FrankNAM 10.14 > 2 Gardener Jason GBR 10.17 > 3 Brown DarrelTRI 10.17 > 4 Zakari Aziz GHA 10.30 > 5 Al-Obaidli Khaled Youssef QAT 10.38 > 6 Dubois Daniel SUI 10.51 > 7 Osovych Sergiy AUT 10.53 > Purkrabek ThomasAUT DNF > > Official Result Men - 200 METRESWind:+0.8m/s > Pos Athlete Nat Mark > 1 Fredericks FrankNAM 20.38 > 2 Louahla Malik ALG 20.85 > 3 Osovych Sergiy AUT 20.90 > 4 Zakari Aziz GHA 20.91 > 5 Osovnikar Matic SLO 20.92 > 6 Lüthi MarkusSUI 20.98 > 7 Welz Hans-Peter AUT 21.74 > Loum Oumar SEN DNF > > > ic > >
Re: t-and-f: Jericho Mile at Athens?
Who was it who put the "con" in convicts? The guy got his 15 minutes. Tom - Original Message - From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Track & Field List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 12:17 AM Subject: t-and-f: Jericho Mile at Athens? > > > This had a bit of interest on the T&FN board. Just finished reading an > article in the July edition of Outside magazine about a 34 year-old > originally from Michigan named Jon Gill who, I guess, had some talent in > the day. State champ at something or other and finished not too far > behind Kennedy in some race. Booze and drugs have landed him in jail and > he is just finishing up a 70 > month stint. Dick Brown is coaching him. He has aspirations of getting > to Athens. Quoting from the article which does not appear to be online > anywhere: > > "In the Olympic trials. Gill predicts that he'll run under 3:35. At the > Olympics, he'll boldly move to the front, where he couldn't care less > about the clock. "I'm not running for a time in Athens," says Gill. "I'm > running to win."" > > It says in the article that one Henry Rono isn't shrugging off his > chances. The writer likely doesn't know who Rono is and describes him as > follows and makes no mention of some of his difficulties: > > "...Henry Rono, a 51 year-old Kenyan living in Albuquerque, New Mexico, > who broke four different world records in 1978, dominating everything > from the 3000 to the 1." > > I believe that it said in the article that his pre-incarceration pb in > the mile was 4:17. > > I guess the story has subsequently been on CBS and ESPN. > > > Regards, > > > Martin > > > >
Re: t-and-f: Track and Field on and off television
Ed said, 2.Create the proper structure within USATF to separate the professional stuff from the non-professional stuff as much as possible. Right now, we give lip service to this, but the net effect is that the organization spends a lot of time and effort dealing with things that straddle the line between the two, and it shouldn't have to. The people I coach in the Greater Boston Track Club, last year's National Club champions, this year second, are not professionals nor do they aspired to be. They are either grad students or have jobs. For them track is their number one recreational activity but jobs, school, family come first. Let's go ahead and do what Ed suggests and separate professional races by giving prize money to individuals but in the "club" competitions award money to the clubs to continue their programs. When or if an athlete gets a sponsorship contract or an agent. They cannot be part of a club or a team except a USA team competing against other countries. Tom Derderian
t-and-f: Killing the sport was major philosphy difference for the sport
Drugs are killing the sport and what is driving drugs is money. Are they related? Maybe there is a place for expressed amateur sports? Such is the NCAA. Tom - Original Message - From: "lehane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 1:31 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport > How 'bout it's killing the sport. > > Dan Kaplan wrote: > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > If lots of people decide to rob banks and don't see anything wrong > > > with it, and the police can't keep up, does that mean that bank > > > robbery should be made legal? > > > > Robbing banks has a clearly defined ill effect on society. That's yet to > > be demonstrated very convincingly with regards to performance enhancing > > drugs. Next. > > > > Dan > > > > = > > http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design & Custom Programming > > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax > >/ / > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com >
Re: t-and-f: Killing the sport was major philosphy difference for the sport
Not so naive but do see a relationship between money and drugs. The more money, the more drugs. Certainly there is money involved in the NCAA but not as much as with athletes who have agents and sponsorship contracts. There is even less drug use in clubs such as the Greater Boston Track Club that I coach where the athletes have jobs or are students and the club gets only a small amount on sponsorship money. Mostly the members support the club. Yes, it would be naive to think their never has been drug use or would be but it surely is proportionately less. So one response, not a solution, to the drug problem would be to strictly define the levels of money influence or professionalism. Tom Derderian - Original Message - From: "Wes Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tom Derderian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lehane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 6:53 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Killing the sport was major philosphy difference for the sport > H. We're not so naïve as to suggest that the NCAA is drug-free? How about some of the foreign athletes who have matriculated (are matriculating) and their track "records" without even starting on our citizen participants? Otherwise, what is the purpose for NCAA drug testing. Hopefully to try and deter the athlete, alas, we also know how difficult it is to "catch the culprits"! > > It's a filter down system. May I be so bold as to suggest the high schools are even caught up in this whole chase your tail game. > > We're in a pill-popping, needle-sticking culture and time. > > Wes Cook, > > George Fox University > > -Original Message- > From: Tom Derderian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 1:43 AM > To: lehane; Dan Kaplan > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Killing the sport was major philosphy difference for the sport > > Drugs are killing the sport and what is driving drugs is money. Are they > related? Maybe there is a place for expressed amateur sports? Such is the > NCAA. > Tom > - Original Message - > From: "lehane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport > > > > How 'bout it's killing the sport. > > > > Dan Kaplan wrote: > > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > If lots of people decide to rob banks and don't see anything wrong > > > > with it, and the police can't keep up, does that mean that bank > > > > robbery should be made legal? > > > > > > Robbing banks has a clearly defined ill effect on society. That's yet > to > > > be demonstrated very convincingly with regards to performance enhancing > > > drugs. Next. > > > > > > Dan > > > > > > = > > > http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design & Custom Programming > > > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > > > > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > > > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax > > >/ / > > > > > > __ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > >
Re: t-and-f: oxygen masks
For athletes the extra oxygen is useless. For example when we inhale air it is about 21% oxygen. When we exhale, no matter how fast we run, only about 3 or 4% of oxygen is missing, used up in the body. The limit to our performance is not the amount of oxygen available at normal pressure, but the ability of our cells to use it. Our bodies have to play an delicate dance to supply us with only the amount of oxygen we can use and no extra because that would float around in the cells reacting and raising metabolic havoc. Tom Derderian, Greater Boston Track Club - Original Message - From: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:43 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: oxygen masks > I've always assumed it's "richer" air, i.e. higher concentration of > oxygen. If that's the case, and if it really works, then players wouldn't > need to be on the sideline as long to recharge. Unless you're running a > two-man relay in track, there isn't nearly the same need to get your wind > back in a timely fashion. > > Dan > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > ...just something I'm curious about after watching > > college and pro football for another weekend... > > > > After multiple long runs, a running back or wide receiver > > or kick returner will go over to the sideline and take > > long drags from an oxygen mask. > > > > It's become pretty much an expected thing. > > Also, late in the game when one team's defense has > > spent a LOT of time on the field and they are pooped, > > the entire defensive line can be seen sitting on the > > bench, sucking on oxygen masks in unison! :) > > That's become pretty much a joke- literally "sucking > > air". > > > > My question is- do oxygen masks on football sidelines > > really ACCOMPLISH anything? > > Can't players get just as much air just by bothering > > to breathe? Or there some kind of 'happy air' being > > pumped through those masks? > > > > Track athletes exert a heck of a lot more, but I > > don't see rows and rows of oxygen masks just past > > the finish line of the men's 10K at the World Championships, > > for all the finishers to jump on. > > > > Are oxygen masks some kind of 'old football coaches tale' > > that has become gospel in the sport of football, but > > don't really do anything (except the placebo effect) ? > > > > ...just wondered > > > > RT > > > > > = > http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design & Custom Programming > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax >/ / > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: oxygen masks
RC's right I got the inhale /exhale % backwards. The comment about oxygen in cells is about how muscles cells have no way to deal with extra free oxygen. They can't store it so they would have to use up chemicals to tie it up. Isn't that why it goes back to the lung? But I wonder at what point does breathing more oxygen become a bad thing? Could the practice of breathing oxygen be worse than useless but actually harmful? I don't know. Too much of a good thing? Do your lungs get rusty? Tom Actually, it is the other way around. In the lab, we'll see expired O2 levels at VO2max in highly trained runners as low as 3-4%. >The limit to our > performance is not the amount of oxygen available at normal pressure, but > the ability of our cells to use it. While this has been debated for many years in excercise physiology, it appears that oxygen delivery is (arguably) more of a limiting factor that oxygen utilization. That's why blood doping and EPO work. The more O2 we can deliver to the muscles, the higher the VO2. AT altitude, less O2 is delivered to the muscles and VO2 and performance is impaired. >Our bodies have to play an delicate > dance to supply us with only the amount of oxygen we can use and no extra > because that would float around in the cells reacting and raising metabolic > havoc. I'm sorry Tom, but that's pretty silly. When the O2 gets to the muscles, if there's no pressure gradient for it to diffuse out of the blood into the muscle, it simply travels back in the blood to the lung. No havoc there. To get back to the original question with supplemental O2 during recovery for football guys at Mile High stadium.physiologically, it pretty much does nothing to aid recovery. Psychologically, if the players think it helps recovery, then it is an aid. Physiologically, when the blood leaves the lung in our football player (on the sidelines at rest), about 95-97% of the binding sites on the hemoglobin have an O2 attached to it - even at 5200ft. By breathing 100% O2, we increase the amount of O2 bound to Hb and dissolved O2 only incrementally. In terms of recovery, it does basically nothing for the individual, physiologically. If the athlete were wearing an O2 mask during exercise at 5k ft, that would be a different story. RC (PhD and sometimes bfd like O'Malley) > > Tom Derderian, Greater Boston Track Club > > - Original Message - > From: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:43 PM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: oxygen masks > > > I've always assumed it's "richer" air, i.e. higher concentration of > > oxygen. If that's the case, and if it really works, then players wouldn't > > need to be on the sideline as long to recharge. Unless you're running a > > two-man relay in track, there isn't nearly the same need to get your wind > > back in a timely fashion. > > > > Dan > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > ...just something I'm curious about after watching > > > college and pro football for another weekend... > > > > > > After multiple long runs, a running back or wide receiver > > > or kick returner will go over to the sideline and take > > > long drags from an oxygen mask. > > > > > > It's become pretty much an expected thing. > > > Also, late in the game when one team's defense has > > > spent a LOT of time on the field and they are pooped, > > > the entire defensive line can be seen sitting on the > > > bench, sucking on oxygen masks in unison! :) > > > That's become pretty much a joke- literally "sucking > > > air". > > > > > > My question is- do oxygen masks on football sidelines > > > really ACCOMPLISH anything? > > > Can't players get just as much air just by bothering > > > to breathe? Or there some kind of 'happy air' being > > > pumped through those masks? > > > > > > Track athletes exert a heck of a lot more, but I > > > don't see rows and rows of oxygen masks just past > > > the finish line of the men's 10K at the World Championships, > > > for all the finishers to jump on. > > > > > > Are oxygen masks some kind of 'old football coaches tale' > > > that has become gospel in the sport of football, but > > > don't really do anything (except the placebo effect) ? > > > > > > ...just wondered > > > > > > RT > > > > > > > > > = > > http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design & Custom Programming > > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax > >/ / > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: 'soft' marathon record
Our friend Jack Daniels associates a 2:04:57 marathon with a 59:38 half, 27:07, 10 km, 13:01 5km for velocity at max so the good Doctor may agree with Marty. Tom - Original Message - From: "Post, Marty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED] uoregon. edu' (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 8:51 AM Subject: t-and-f: 'soft' marathon record > When Radcliffe ran 2:15:25 at London that brought the male/female WR > difference to 7.8 percent, the smallest by far of any standard running event > (discounting the 100m affected by Flo-Jo's controversial 10.49). > > This obviously demonstrated the superiority of Radcliffe's record. But > there's a not-so-obvious corollary: the men's record was too 'slow' and soft > compared to other events. > > Tergat took a step to adjusting that difference yesterday. I also suspect > that if a fit and ready Haile Gebrselassie ran there with a more aggressive > first half pace, the WR could have been lowered by another 30 -45 seconds. > > > >
Re: t-and-f: who would use drugs?
Must be the pitchers are using. - Original Message - From: "David Lesley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 7:57 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: who would use drugs? > Netvolks: > > Today's San Diego Union -Tribune ran an article in the sports page to the > effect that in this first year of steroid testing of major league players , > nobody hit 50 or more home runs in MLB. This is the first time in 10 years > that this has occurred. > > Now, the wisdom on this list seems to be that testing is not a deterrent and > detection is easily avoided. Since utility infielders make more money than > almost any T&F athlete, they can certainly afford the same medical help. > > I'm sure there will be no lack of explanations for this. > > David Lesley >
Re: t-and-f: How big?
Maybe the toughness of a marathoner needs not to be so much in the sinew but in the synapses. So if we were to look at the marthoner's brain would we find it different from the 10km runner's brain, if we find it at all? But seriously, maybe endorphin production differs. Sometimes I think long distance runners might not be able to produce enough of the stuff unless they are running. Maybe 10km runners produce more with less? When they say it's all in the mind maybe they mean that literally? Tom - Original Message - From: "edndana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ""Athletics"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 9:43 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: How big? > I tend to think you're both right - lighter 10K guys can and do move up, but > the average numbers will continue to be heavier for the marathoners because > on average there is a little more muscle resistance required. > > Now here's an interesting question - at what point between 10K and marathon > would the scale start to tip to the heavier (pun not intended!)? If the > marathon was on the track, would we not see the difference (I still think > we'd see some difference). If the hour run was contested regularly, would > those athletes be lighter than the 10K athletes? If the 10K on the road was > an Olympic event, would those athletes be built more like marathoners or 10K > track runners. > > - Ed Parrot > - Original Message - > From: "Dan Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: How big? > > > > --- alan tobin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > In the marathon you must have muscles and connective tissue strong > > > enough to handle the pounding. > > > > That's been a commonly held belief for some time now, but I think it's > > being pretty heavily refuted by the current crop of 5k/10k studs > > re-writing the record books. Tergat, Geb, Radcliffe, and now Rutto come > > to mind, and Laroupe and Khannouchi did their share of track running > > before focusing on the roads. As far as I know, their respective > > physiologies haven't changed as they've moved up. > > > > Dan > > > > = > > http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design & Custom Programming > > http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy T&F > > > > @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > > _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax > >/ / > > > > __ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > >
Re: t-and-f: LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout
Then consider the depth of competition in the various wheelchair races compared to the prize money at major marathons. There aren't many people in them. What if the prize were in direct proportion to the number of competitors the winner has to beat? Tom - Original Message - From: "Geoff Pietsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:34 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout >The good intentions, backed up by real money, of the Chicago marathon > folks are to be applauded, BUT isn't it time the unfair double standard > favoring women in qualifying for the Trails marathon was changed. For a man > to make the "A" or "B" standard, he has to be much closer, proportionally, > to the wold and U.S. records than does a woman. >It's tough enough for a mid-to-high 2:20s - and even low 2:30s - male to > see similarly talented women (those between 2:40 and 2:48) make the Trials, > when they have to stay home, but it seems like rubbing salt in the wounds to > also see them get thousands of dollars for those proportionately slower or > similar times. > Geoff > > > >From: Mike Prizy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Mike Prizy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: Track List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: t-and-f: LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout > >Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:53:55 -0600 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Release from the LBCM: > > > > Original Message > >Subject: The LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout > >Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:23:33 -0600 > > > > > > > > LASALLE BANK CHICAGO MARATHON PAYS OUT $115,000 TO > > AMERICAN OLYMPIC HOPEFULS > >Nearly 40 Athletes Earned U.S. > >Olympic Marathon Qualifying Standard > > > >CHICAGO (October 29, 2003)?The LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon helped many > >American runners continue their Olympic dreams by providing a cash bonus > >for U.S. Olympic Standard qualifying times. A total payout of $115,000 was > >given to 39 American runners who met the required times for the 2004 U.S. > >Olympic Trials at The 2003 LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon. > > > >"We focused on supporting our male and female American marathon runners > >with this incentive program because we knew this year was a special year > >with the U.S. Olympic Trials coming up," said Carey Pinkowski, executive > >race director. "It's financially challenging for these athletes to > >properly train for these Trials and pay their bills, so we hope this money > >will offer them assistance to achieve their Olympic goals." > > > >The Marathon paid $3,500 to every American male who had a sub 2:20:00 > >effort (the "A" U.S. Trials Standard), $2,500 to every American male who > >had a sub 2:22:00 effort (the "B" U.S. Trials Standard), $3,500 to every > >American female who had a sub 2:40:00 effort (the "A" U.S. Trials Standard) > >and $2,500 to every American female who had a sub 2:48:00 effort (the "B" > >U.S. Trials Standard). There were 22 men (10 "A" standard and 12 "B" > >standard) who received a payout and 18 women (five "A" standard and 13 "B" > >standard). > > > >The LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon had the most qualifying times for any > >2003 marathon for both men (36) and women (33). (Some runners qualify more > >than once.) > > > >The American runners who achieved their Olympic Standard were pleased with > >the outcome of the race and seemed grateful for the added bonus. > > > >"The Chicago Marathon has always been extremely supportive of all its > >runners, regardless of ability and this is one more example," said Brian > >Sell who is a part of the HANSONS-Brooks Distance Project based in > >Rochester Hills, Mich. "I just wanted to remain competitive throughout the > >entire race and I was able to achieve my Olympic Standard. The next step > >is the Trials and the Marathon is helping me get there." > > > >"There were a lot of American women who finished in a pack for the 'B' > >Standard. I think there were about 15 of us right around the 2:48:00 > >mark," said Lucie Mays from Carmel, Ind. "It was an overwhelming > >experience for all us to celebrate right after the finish line knowing we > >were all going to the Trials and even better we got some extra money." > > > >The men and women U.S. Olympic Standard qualifiers are all listed below. > > > >Male "A" Standard Qualifiers Male "B" Standard Qualifiers > >Dan Browne, Portland, Ore. Paul Aufdemberge, Redford, > >Mich. > >Josh Cox, El Cajon, Calif Trent Briney, Utica, Mich. > >Peter Clusener, Arcata, Calif. Edmund Burke, Burtonville, > >Md. > >Mike Donnelley, Portland, Ore. Nick Cordes, Utica, Mich. > >Peter Gilmore, Menlo Park, Calif. Rod DeHaven, Madison, Wisc. > >Jason Lehmkuhle, St. Paul, Minn.Nick Gramsky, McLean, Va. >
Re: Re: t-and-f: Hope Still Exists - join the club
Steve's point is excellent. Yes, join a club. To urge people to join/form USATF clubs there needs to be more incentives. We have a club nationals in track and in x-c and lots of road race championships. But only the x-c is well established and prestigious. People care about which club wins the x-c. The club track champs, only a few years old, is too new to comment upon. The road race champs move around and are often lost in last roadraces. I sent Greater Boston Track Club teams to four national champs roadraces this year, Albany women 5 km, New Haven men's and women's 20 km, Men's 5 km in Providence, and Tufts women's 10 km in Boston. Albany did the best job celebrating the team competition. We won prize money that psyched the team and paid for the trip. The race management were gracious to us. At New Haven the race director was as welcoming as possible but no one ever figured a national team score. I still don't know how GBTC men and women placed officially against other teams. At Tufts our team won some money but mostly by default since not many teams contested the title. In no case did the race management and publicity "sell" the drama of team competition. On the regional level in New England the team competition is fierce and tracked by the running community here more than national competitions are tracked by the national community. The New England office does a good job promoting team competition and a much better job than the national USATF office does in promoting national competition. We have acted locally in New England but now it is time for the national office to match us in promoting team competition. Right now I can "sell" the idea of club nationals in Track and Cross-country, but as you can see from the list above we only go to national road races that we can drive to. Perhaps there are too many. Which one do you pick? Tom Derderian, Greater Boston Track Club, preparing for the USATF New England x-c Championships on Nov 9th at Franklin Park in Boston - Original Message - From: "Steve Vaitones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 3:44 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: t-and-f: Hope Still Exists - join the club > Team competition can bring out the best in individuals > Why, then, doesn't this get taken to its logical next step, which would be > having these random individuals formalize things and become a viable > running/T&F club? > The diversity of the runners presented in Tony's post is refreshing, and > any club can be a mix of the good, the bad, and the ugly. That mix of > abilities can keep things fresh as well as inspire by keeping clubs for the > 'every man' vs being an elite refuge. > > Correct me if I'm assuming that there isn't active club competition in MT > and this just supplements it in a unique format. If there is in fact no > club action, then is it just the novelty of competing for a city that makes > it for these runners? Or the fact that a once a year event is not really > making a commitment ? > > Don't get me wrong- The idea is great and we've done it up similarly here > in the Northeast at times with a regional TF meet, a New England vs Quebec > meet, and a "(greater) NY vs (greater) Boston" Indoor TF meet that went 10 > years. Montana could expand to a "Big Sky" type of meet by states - MT / > ID / UT, etc. > > But it would it help the bigger picture to have the team competition carry > forward year round, which addresses the lack of a club system that is > always bemoaned? Classic case of think globally and act locally! > > Steve > > >From: "Geoff Pietsch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Hope Still Exists > >Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:32:51 -0500 > > > > I LOVE this idea Tony has passed along (below): the Montana Cup. I > > hope he posts it on Letsrun and T&FN and any/all other sites. What a > > great way to boost Cross Country around the country. Only the > > super-elite can aspire to run for the U.S.A., but lots and lots of folks > > can hope to run for... Hoboken or Reno or Shreveport. And even those who > > don't make the scoring five or top 7 for their city can still > > race. Fantastic! Let's start a movement. Hmmm, maybe one of the shoe > > companies, looking for an edge, could pick this up and sponsor it. Very > > low cost but potentially great publicity. > > Geoff > > > > > >>From: "Tony Banovich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Subject: t-and-f: Hope Still Exists > >>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:32:51 -0700 > >> > >>After all the doom and gloom of Modafin
Re: Re: t-and-f: Hope Still Exists - join the club
Montana does have a big sky over a sparsely populated land so I understand what Tony says below. The next question is whether team concepts can work nationally where the sky is even bigger? What will it take? Tom Derderian Greater Boston Track Club I'm not complaining. I choose to live here and I recognize the limit on uppper level competition. It's just that team concepts that can work in high density areas like the east coast, the upper midwest, certain regions of California, etc. just don't work in sparsely populated rural states. Tony Banovich Billings, Montana
Re: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us
Good point, Jim, apocalypse indeed, I never heard of this guy until I got the following from a 40+ woman in the club who ran NYC in 3:47. "Hard finish on a hot and humid day but good for Boston qualification. Almost got bopped by P Diddy's bodyguard." How old is this Diddy person? Tom, out of touch with popular culture. - Original Message - From: "Jim Gerweck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Track & Field" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:42 PM Subject: t-and-f: This Week's Sign that Track Apocalypse is Upon Us > ³P. Diddy² Combs named Athlete of the Week > > INDIANAPOLIS Sean ³P. Diddy² Combs has been named USA Track & > Field¹s Athlete of the Week for raising $2 million for charity by finishing > the ING New York City Marathon on Sunday. > > A first-time marathoner, P. Diddy finished with a chip time of 4 > hours, 14 minutes, 54 seconds, accomplishing his goal of bettering Oprah > Winfrey¹s marathon time of 4:29:00 she set at the 1994 Washington D.C. > Marathon. His performance raised $2 million for charitable causes, which > was double the amount he had expected to raise. A native of Harlem, P. > Diddy trained two months for the race and ran with an injured right knee. > > Combs plans to split the money between New York City¹s public > school system, the Children's Hope Foundation and Daddy's House Social > Programs, which are two children¹s advocate groups. The entertainment > mogul called his charity effort, ³Diddy Runs the City.² Major donors to > Combs¹ cause included New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg, rapper Jay-Z, > Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez. "We set a bar and we crushed that bar,² > said P. Diddy. ³This is just a start. This wasn't a publicity stunt." > > Combs' efforts generated interest to thousands of kids about long > distance running in bringing it to a new light due to his pre-marathon > coverage through non-sporting and track & field media outlets. > >
t-and-f: Archived Greater Boston Track Club Newsletters
The Greater Boston Track Club newsletters from the origin of the club have been placed on line. Beware, one glance could wind up consuming your day. Many of the people on this list are mentioned. For example, Larry Newman. Also writing in the club newsletter is "Perfect Storm" writer, Sebastian Junger who was a member and quite fast. http://www.gbtc.org/ Tom Derderian
