t-and-f: Filothei Women Gala, enty lists
2nd Filothei Women Gala 30 May 2001 Filothei, Greece ENTRY LISTS 100 metersRace 1. Yanoula Kafetzi (GRE), Marina Kislova (RUS), Natalya Safronnikova (BLR), Irina Pukha (UKR), Frederique Bangue (FRA), Georgia Kokloni (GRE)Race 2. Zoe Neratzidou (GRE), Eufrosyni Patsou (GRE), Sade Ogundemi (NGR), Eleni Zournatzi (GRE), Athina Kopsia (GRE), Magda Pantaleon (GRE) 100 m. hurdles. Svetlana Dimitrova (BUL), Yelena Shekhovtsova (UKR), Patricia Girard (FRA), Svetlana Gendzilov (ISR), Tania Tambaki (GRE), Flora Redoumi (GRE) High Jump. Venelina Veneva (BUL), Inka Babakova (UKR), Viktoria Styopina (UKR), Irina Mikhalchenko (UKR), Tatyana Nikolayeva (UKR), Marina Korzhova (KZK), Yelena Sivushenko (RUS), Agni Charalambous (CYP), Maria Chotokouridou (GRE), Eleni Syropoulou (GRE), Margarita Proestou (CYP) Pole Vault. Tania Koleva (BUL), Anna Fitidou (CYP), Georgia Tsiligiri (GRE), Errica Prezerakou (GRE), Dimitra Emmanuel (GRE), Christina Tsirba (GRE), Thalia Iakovidou (GRE) Long Jump. Tatyana Kotova (RUS), Yelena Shekhovtsova (UKR), Errica Johansson (SWE), Niki Xanthou (GRE), Yelena Kashcheyeva (KZK), Yelena Pershina (KZK), Nora Adova (BUL), Stella Pilatou (GRE), Christina Athanassiou (GRE), Christina Ikosipentarchou (GRE), Lia Constyantinou (GRE) Triple Jump. Tereza Marinova (BUL), Olena Govorova (UKR), Olga Yershova (RUS), Chryssopigi Devetzi (GRE), Dimitra Markou (GRE), Yanoula Kafetzi (GRE), Irene Dimitraki (GRE) Michalis Nikitaridis http://www.athletix.net
RE: t-and-f: what gun?
If you think that is interesting, check out the reaction times for those 2 in the official results at www.flashresults.com. More fuel for the no false start rules. Curtis --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 29, 2001 11:53:22 PM GMT Subject: t-and-f: what gun? Jarrett said after the race that he did not think he started early, although he acknowledged that he did not hear the starter's gun, but got out of the blocks alongside Bernard Williams, who was in the lane next to him.Usually I hear the gun, but for some reason I didn't, Jarrett said. I was real nervous, I think that is the only way to explain it. Williams and I went out at the same time. from the oregon newspaper
t-and-f: VA state meet
Can anyone tell me where the Virginia high school state meet is this weekend and when Alan Webb is running. (I believe he is runnning the 800m.)
t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb
I realize that this is all hypothetical but why couldn't he get a 4 year deal with a shoe company that stipulates that he will be attending school and that he controls when and where he can compete? Somebody would have to offer it to him obviously and I don't know whether a shoe company would. Most of the big meets take place when he is out of school. There have been successful athletes out there who have hadjobs(Steve Jones comes to mind) and I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't realize just how easy I had it when I went to post secondary school. 8 months a year with a lot of time off-nice gig if you can get it. I don't know how Webb is scholastically but it strikes me that a shoe company could get some mileage out of this kind of association. Maybe there are some issues to do with stepping on the toes of the NCAA but I don't know.T F is unique compared to other big name sports becausea large part of its' competitive schedule does not take place during the school year like football, basketball, hockey etc. Regards, Martin
RE: t-and-f: VA state meet
The Virginia AAA State Meet is Friday and Saturday at Sports Backer Stadium in Richmond VA. I am not sure which day the 800 will be run. John Dye [EMAIL PROTECTED]DyeStat - www.dyestat.comInternet home of high school track field cc -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of MalkinSent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:51 AMTo: tf listSubject: t-and-f: VA state meetCan anyone tell me where the Virginia high school state meet is this weekend and when Alan Webb is running. (I believe he is runnning the 800m.)
RE: t-and-f: Webb - HS vs World JUNIOR all time
Also interesting, is what is Webbs position relative to age group records for 17 and 18 year olds? Jim Kaminsky -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bob Ramsak Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 10:04 PM To: tf list Subject: t-and-f: Webb - HS vs World JUNIOR all time Hi All, Unless I missed it in the mass of messages over the past few days, little has been said about Webb's place in the all-time World Junior Mile list, which mightprovide a better point of comparison for an 18-year oldwhose national high school federation apparently won't recognize his monumental achievement-- He is now #4, behind Noah Ngeny (3:50.41), Jim Ryun (3:51.3) and Graham Williamson (3:53.15)... and ahead of other sub-4 juniors including Steve Cram, Kevin Sullivan, Steve Ovett and Noureddine Morceli.. Born 13. January, 1983, Webb will have all of 2002 to move up. - | Bob Ramsak | TRACK PROFILE News Service | *Images, Features and Coverage of Track Field, Road Racing and Olympic Sport | Cleveland, Ohio USA | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://www.trackprofile.com
RE: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb
Why in the world would Webb want to sign a 4-year deal with a shoe company, in lieu of NCAA competition? Hewill bein college (read: time to train),will havemost of his expenditures covered (presumably), and have access to fantastic coaching and competition. What is he lacking with this set-up? It's not as though he will not be sufficiently challenged in NCAA competition. I can't think of anything worse for someone's development than to rushhim/her through the typical progression path and put undue pressure on the individual. Half the time this list complains about post-collegiate opportunities. Does anyone else find irony in that now everyone wants Webb to jump straight to post-collegiate running? Relax and enjoy watching him develop and don't force the process. -RWE -Original Message-From: Martin J. Dixon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:18 AMTo: Track Field ListSubject: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb I realize that this is all hypothetical but why couldn't he get a 4 year deal with a shoe company that stipulates that he will be attending school and that he controls when and where he can compete? Somebody would have to offer it to him obviously and I don't know whether a shoe company would. Most of the big meets take place when he is out of school. There have been successful athletes out there who have hadjobs(Steve Jones comes to mind) and I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't realize just how easy I had it when I went to post secondary school. 8 months a year with a lot of time off-nice gig if you can get it. I don't know how Webb is scholastically but it strikes me that a shoe company could get some mileage out of this kind of association. Maybe there are some issues to do with stepping on the toes of the NCAA but I don't know.T F is unique compared to other big name sports becausea large part of its' competitive schedule does not take place during the school year like football, basketball, hockey etc. Regards, Martin
t-and-f: top U.S. milers on U.S. soil
Who am I missing? 1. Jim Ryan, 3:51.1, Bakersfield (June 3, 1967) 2. Tony Waldrop, 3:53.2, Philadelphia (April 27, 1974) 3. Richie Boulet, 3:53.26, Eugene (May 31, 1998) 4. Dave Wottle, 3:53.3, Eugene (June 20, 1973) 5. Rich Wohlhuter, 3:53.3, Wichita (May 31, 1975) 6. Alan Webb, 3:53.43, Eugene (May 27, 2001) 7. Terrance Herrington, 3:53.64, Eugene (June 4, 1995) 8. Adam Goucher, 3:54.17, Eugene (May 30, 1999) 9. Don Paige, 3:54.19, Eugene (May 16, 1982) 10. Doug Padilla, 3:54.2, Westwood (Aug. 6, 1989) __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: First American Black sub-4
Isn't this discussion a tad ironic considering the disdain the list has for things such as Bob Kennedy being the first non-African sub-13 5k? Dan __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: Jackson's 9:55.63 an American record?
When Ellizabeth Jackson ran 9:55.63 at San Diego on 18 May it was on a track with a 3.06m short pit (as opposed to a 3.66 long pit). This was faster than her American record of 9:57.20 last year. Since a short pit should produce faster times, does this preclude the mark from being ratified as an American record? Marc Bloom comments as following: The women's water jump is SUPPOSED to be 60 meters shorter than the men's, according to IAAF guidelines. Officials can still run women over the men's-size jump if they wish, but certainly the shorter jump is within the rules for the new women's event. (Ironic because some women and coaches prefer the men's jump, or at least one closer in size.) So it should stand at a new AR. Does anybody out there know for sure?? (Of course, Jackson may soon run faster than 9:55 and make this all academic.)
t-and-f: Lost talent etc
Netters: Two items. We often speculate on how much lost tanet there is for our sport in the preferenece that so many young athletes have today for the wide variety of team sports available on the junior level. By its very nbature, track and field cannotn compete with the allure of soccer, basketball, lacrosse, hockey, etc., with their jazzy uniforms, team camaradie, parental interest, etc. I saw an example of what we are missing last night at the Bergen County Meet of Champions. I have been following with interest this spring the rapid rise of a runner named DIanna Russini at Northern Valley Old Tappan HS. She has come from nowhere to be one of the better distance runners in the state, I was told that she had never competed in our sport until this spring, previously played soccer and basketball for her school. Also,m that she was a sort of poor man's version of our star distance runner, Erin Donohue---a determined youngster who just got out in front and stayed there, Well, that's just what I saw last night as she headed a strong field in the girls' 1600. Givven the inside lane as the top seeda rather ridiculous practice since this is hardly the preferred position in a large field like this one---she bulled her way to the front and stayed there, fighting off a strong challenge by a fine runner named Caitlin Smyth of Immaculate Heart Academy (also a soccer player who won the state Parochial A 800 title in her first season last spring and recently ran an 11:11 3200) and going on to win in 5:10.15 off a 2:35 pace. Obviously, this is a girl with a future, if she chooses to follow it. She is not very tall, which rules out any Division I basketball career and would also limited her in the already limited world of women's college soccer. We shall just have to wait and see whether she follows her obvious star. Ed Grant
t-and-f: interesting story about Denis Fykes
http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/2001/011801/staff.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
t-and-f: Ja'Warren Hooker in today's Seattle Times...
Title: Ja'Warren Hooker in today's Seattle Times... Hooker's last run as a Husky By Bud Withers Seattle Times staff reporter Ja'Warren Hooker has made a breakthrough. He wouldn't mind another one this week. There on the June cover of Track and Field News - the self-appointed Bible of the sport - is Hooker, straining mightily, looking buff in a University of Washington singlet. Triple Threat Sprinter, screams the accompanying headline ...go to http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/134300790_hook30.html for the full story. Paul Merca
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb
The basic issue is two-fold and doesn't really concern Webb: 1) When and why should an athlete leave his/her coach (and also training environs, etc). 2) Why the assumption that the collegiate route is the only legitimate one for athletic development? As far as Webb goes, one thing he could capitalize on right now as opposed to in 3 or 4 years is the marketing value he has as an under-20 world class miler. How much would the European GP meet directors pay to get the young phenom in their races? I don't know, maybe not much, but I would think potentially quite a bit (sadly I think he is marketable in part because he would be a great white hope). Throw a nice shoe contract on top of that (with the shoe compnay garuanteeing your tuition when you do want to go) and it coould be a pretty sweet deal. When I was leaving high school though, I couldn't imagine not going to college. I'd bet Webb hasn't thought of it and it would seem a bizzare idea if someone suggested it to him so I don't think we are dealing with it as a possibility which is why I originally posed the question hypothetically and why we should focus on the two questions above. Paul On Wed, 30 May 2001, Martin J. Dixon wrote: I realize that this is all hypothetical but why couldn't he get a 4 year deal with a shoe company that stipulates that he will be attending school and that he controls when and where he can compete? Somebody would have to offer it to him obviously and I don't know whether a shoe company would. Most of the big meets take place when he is out of school. There have been successful athletes out there who have had jobs(Steve Jones comes to mind) and I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't realize just how easy I had it when I went to post secondary school. 8 months a year with a lot of time off-nice gig if you can get it. I don't know how Webb is scholastically but it strikes me that a shoe company could get some mileage out of this kind of association. Maybe there are some issues to do with stepping on the toes of the NCAA but I don't know. T F is unique compared to other big name sports because a large part of its' competitive schedule does not take place during the school year like football, basketball, hockey etc. Regards, Martin *** Paul Talbot Department of Geography/ Institute of Behavioral Science University of Colorado, Boulder Boulder CO 80309-0260 (303) 492-3248 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Webb #19 all-time US
Would the steeplechaser be Jeff Fishback? There was a steeplechaser by that name on the 1964 Olympic team, I believe. David Lesley wrote: Yes, I know Mark Schilling was white, and assuming that nothing unusual has happened, he still is. I tried to look it all up, and Reggie McAfee was indeed first. But there was a San Jose runner who I think ran about 3 43 for 1500, probably in 1966. (My subscription to TFN began in July 67, so I can't check it.) I was watching for the first American black sub 4 at the time because I was rooting for Harry McCalla(who later ran 4 00.8 in the '67 AAU race). When I saw this guy's 1500 PR I thought he would have it, but evidently he never did. He was a teammate at SJS of Jeff - a national class steepler whom you might know, but whose career preceded my subscription (and therefore is out of my current memory).If you are in touch with Jeff , you can ask him who it was and what he did. David Lesley -- From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'david lesley' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Phil Murray' [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: Webb #19 all-time US Date: Tue, May 29, 2001, 6:03 PM Mark Schilling was white... And still is. malmo -Original Message- From: david lesley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 8:31 PM To: malmo; 'Phil Murray'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb #19 all-time US Malmo: Is that accurate about Reggie McAfee? Harry McCalla of Stanford was pretty close in the late 60's, and there was a runner at San Jose State at that time who might have done it. The name escapes me. David Lesley -- -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
t-and-f: Tommy Fulton
Fred Finke wrote: Fulton did one of the most amazing things I ever saw at NAIA nationals (Henderson University, Arkadelphia, Ark) in I think it was 1973. He ran the 3 mile, 6 mile and mile (3:58.?) and scored in all three. I also think he ran a leg of the 4 x 8 or DMR. He was a one man track team. I think once at his conference meet (Southwestern Athletic Conference) he won the 880, mile, 3 mile, and 6 mile (or their metric equivalents). He also ran the last 600 meters in the 1972 Olympic Trials final with one shoe, after losing it due to someone clipping his heel. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
t-and-f: Webb 800m
Everyone is speculating on Webb's potential at the mile for the future ... Yet it appears he is going to be running the 800 in his next race ... Given just prior to Pre he ran an awesome triple which included a low 1:49 800, does anyone have any idea what his potential in that race could be ??? Especially given that will be all he will be running ... If he ran the 1:49 as easy as they say he did AND he is at 3:53 for the mile, how close could he get to the HSR in the 800 ??? My guess is he could go sub 1:47 which would put him close ... Any ideas ?? Any correlations in mile and 800 times - charts etc ??? Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Predict Webb's future
Garry, That point was made in some detail during your absence from the list. The demographic bottom for the USA birth rate was 1975 making the High School Class of 1993 the smallest, and why there are relatively few runners today in their mid-twenties. Since 1993, the high school numbers have been increasing. Welcome back. We missed you. Ed Koch. --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 29, 2001 2:40:21 PM GMT Subject: Re: t-and-f: Predict Webb's future In a message dated 5/28/01 18:25:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmmm...can somebody say deja vu? After Jim Ryun came a swarm of American distance running talent in the 70s and early 80s, especially in the marathon and mostly from developmental sites such as Athletics West and GBTC. With today's young American marathon crew and the recent start up of developmental sites from RunningUSA I see something a brewing in the celestial stew. With all due respect to the developmental programs that are being instituted now, you'll have trouble convincing me that the Ryun-era boom came about for the same reason that the current one is: demographics. More teenagers means a larger stew from which talent can emerge and the larger the stew the more chances of finding an outlier who becomes a world-class talent. The U.S. school system, as flawed as it may be, is still one of the greatest talent-developing mechanisms the planet has ever seen. gh
RE: t-and-f: Tommy Fulton
Another person just refreshed my memory. At the NAIA national meet that year, it was not a relay but the open 800. In total it was: Tommy Fulton won the mile and 3 mile and placed second in the 880 and 6 mile. He beat Mike Boit (4th in Munich) in the mile. Now that was an athlete! Fred Finke -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wayne T. Armbrust Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Tommy Fulton Fred Finke wrote: Fulton did one of the most amazing things I ever saw at NAIA nationals (Henderson University, Arkadelphia, Ark) in I think it was 1973. He ran the 3 mile, 6 mile and mile (3:58.?) and scored in all three. I also think he ran a leg of the 4 x 8 or DMR. He was a one man track team. I think once at his conference meet (Southwestern Athletic Conference) he won the 880, mile, 3 mile, and 6 mile (or their metric equivalents). He also ran the last 600 meters in the 1972 Olympic Trials final with one shoe, after losing it due to someone clipping his heel. -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
RE: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb...
I think Carl Lewis stopped competing at the collegiate level after his sophomore or junior year because of the strict collegiate amateur rules. He continued to be coached by Tom Telez, his college coach. Ed Koch --Original Message-- From: P.F.Talbot [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Track list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 29, 2001 4:03:38 PM GMT Subject: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb... why should he go to college and run? He has a coach who has already gotten him to 3:53 as an 18 year-old. He's already of international caliber. He could certainly get Nike or someone to offer to pay his tuition whenever he does decide to go to school in exchange for sponsorship. He could probably make some living wages (or perhaps much, much beter) through appearence fees while he has marketing value as a young sensation. He could be a full-time runner while in his prime developing years. I'm not saying the shouldn't go to Michigan next year, but I raise the question because it is a peculiarity of the U.S. system. Would any other kid in the world leave his coach at 18 after running 3:53 (except maybe to be part of nationally funded training camps)? Would Coe have done what he did had he left his Dad at 18? Is Borzakovsky missing anything by bypassing a US scholarship? Would it happen anywhere but in the U.S./Canada? Just some questions to ponder and in many ways this is more a hypothetical question than about Webb in particular. It has become an unquestioned norm for kids to use the college system that I wonder if any Americans ever think about trying an alternate route. *** Paul Talbot Department of Geography/ Institute of Behavioral Science University of Colorado, Boulder Boulder CO 80309-0260 (303) 492-3248 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: t-and-f: Waldrop redefines rat race
Tony Waldrop has been published four times- Published four times? You vastly underestimate Dr. Waldrop's scientific output. I count at least 90 publications. Use this site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi and search on his name in the form: Waldrop TG Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Waldrop redefines rat race
Tony Waldrop has been published four times- Published four times? You vastly underestimate Dr. Waldrop's scientific output. I count at least 90 publications. Use this site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi and search on his name in the form: Waldrop TG Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Jackson's 9:55.63 an American record?
It's my recollection that at the last Annual Meeting of USATF the rule specifying the 3.06m pit was repealed. I think this change was done at the instigation of President Bill Roe. The 2001 USATF Rule Book does not mention the 3.06m pit. http://www.usatf.org/about/rules/ RULE 81 STEEPLECHASE 5. Water Jump Construction: (a) The water jump, including the hurdle, shall be 3.66m (+ 2cm) in length and 3.66m (+ 2cm) in width. The water shall be 70cm in depth immediately in front of the hurdle and slope to the level of the field at the further end. The hurdle at the water jump shall be firmly fixed in front of the water. The top bar shall be 1 2.7cm by 1 2.7cm (5 in. by 5 in.) in thickness and the same height as the others. (b) To ensure the runners' safe landing, the bottom of the water jump shall be covered at the further end with matting of suitable material at least 3.66m (12 ft) wide and 2.5m (8 ft) long. See diagram, page 185. Post, Marty wrote: When Ellizabeth Jackson ran 9:55.63 at San Diego on 18 May it was on a track with a 3.06m short pit (as opposed to a 3.66 long pit). This was faster than her American record of 9:57.20 last year. Since a short pit should produce faster times, does this preclude the mark from being ratified as an American record? Marc Bloom comments as following: The women's water jump is SUPPOSED to be 60 meters shorter than the men's, according to IAAF guidelines. Officials can still run women over the men's-size jump if they wish, but certainly the shorter jump is within the rules for the new women's event. (Ironic because some women and coaches prefer the men's jump, or at least one closer in size.) So it should stand at a new AR. Does anybody out there know for sure?? (Of course, Jackson may soon run faster than 9:55 and make this all academic.) -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: Predict Webb's future
Thanks, I'm a long-time TAFN subscriber but didn't notice it when I skimmed the issue because I've been busy reading Eastern Track. :-) Ed Koch --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 29, 2001 3:13:25 PM GMT Subject: Re: t-and-f: Predict Webb's future In a message dated 5/29/01 11:02:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm also curious about Tim Danielson since he was before my time and not someone whom much has been written about (at least that I could find). Was his 3:59.4 a one-time effort that he never otherwise approached before or after? Any background or web links would be appreciated. One more reason to subscribe to Track and Field News. There was a story on Danielson in the June issue. Walt Murphy Walt Murphy
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb...
Butch Reynolds did not compete for Ohio State after 1987 (I think he was a junior then) although he still had eligibility. He continued to be coached by Frank Zubovich. Edward Koch wrote: I think Carl Lewis stopped competing at the collegiate level after his sophomore or junior year because of the strict collegiate amateur rules. He continued to be coached by Tom Telez, his college coach. Ed Koch -- Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computomarx 3604 Grant Ct. Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA (573) 445-6675 (voice FAX) http://www.Computomarx.com Know the difference between right and wrong... Always give your best effort... Treat others the way you'd like to be treated... - Coach Bill Sudeck (1926-2000)
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb...
I think a lot of times what turns a great high school runner into an afterthought is the change in coach in college. If I was a college coach and Webb was coming to me I'd be asking Webb's high school coach for a little help now and then, just so I don't screw things up. Find out what Webb has been doing and keep doing it. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: Webb at Pre
Listers, Although much praise and promise has been heaped on the (surprisingly mature looking) shoulders of Webb, my own opinion is that it hasn't been enough. I was standing trackside thinking, too bad it's windy, then thinking how mentally difficult running against those opponents and hearing some quick splits might be for young Alan. At the bell, I was also thinking how much better it was going for him than his predecessors in this annual ritual of pitting the best HS miler against a GP field (Stember, Sage, etc.). The next 60 seconds would surely be difficult. 55 seconds later, I realized that Webb didn't feel at all like I thought he did a lap previously. This is not (IMO) a talented HS kid who had everything come together in one great race. I think we saw a world-class (and I know my good friend Malmo will disagree with using that term) miler who finally got to compete with his peers. I would also disagree with Editor Hill on how the 1500m will go in June. Webb IS b! etter than the Jennings/Berryhill/Stember/Lassiter types who will be demoralized by him in Eugene, and I'll bet a few Terminators at the 19th St. Cafe on that one. -Roger
RE: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb...
why should he go to college and run? Well, apart from the personal value to him of the education that he will receive in college, I hope he runs in college because I've always liked it when we get to see the college boys wearing their school uniforms beating the big-time pros in their shoe company singlets - like Salazar winning the New York Marathon with Oregon in his chest, or like the Stanford guys dominating the 1500m at the Olympic trials last year. And now Webb doing something similar wearing a South Lakes High School singlet. How cool was that? I'd love to see him continue that trend over the next four years wearing Michigan on his chest. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: t-and-f: Webb at Pre
In a message dated 5/30/01 09:57:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would also disagree with Editor Hill on how the 1500m will go in June. Webb IS better than the Jennings/Berryhill/Stember/Lassiter types who will be demoralized by him in Eugene, and I'll bet a few Terminators at the 19th St. Cafe on that one. Since my lunch on Monday consisted of Terminators (and a couple of pounds of greasy fries) at the 19th, I'm obviously up for this kind of wagering! Editor Hill
Re: t-and-f: Webb 800m
Actually, I believe that Webb is running 2 events. The open 800 is the only open event. He is also part of a relay, or at least that was what was reported in the Washington Post. --- Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone is speculating on Webb's potential at the mile for the future ... Yet it appears he is going to be running the 800 in his next race ... Given just prior to Pre he ran an awesome triple which included a low 1:49 800, does anyone have any idea what his potential in that race could be ??? Especially given that will be all he will be running ... If he ran the 1:49 as easy as they say he did AND he is at 3:53 for the mile, how close could he get to the HSR in the 800 ??? My guess is he could go sub 1:47 which would put him close ... Any ideas ?? Any correlations in mile and 800 times - charts etc ??? Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Dave Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
RE: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb...
Webb's presence should do good things for the visibility of track and cross-country meets in the Big 10. The guy in the street has actually heard of him and might show up to see a college meet if he's running. One hopes that the sports info types will use this angle. The benefit for the development of the sport of having such an outstanding athlete competing with other young distance/middle distance runners seems obvious, too. Bill Bahnfleth At 05:25 PM 5/30/2001 +, Kurt Bray wrote: why should he go to college and run? Well, apart from the personal value to him of the education that he will receive in college, I hope he runs in college because I've always liked it when we get to see the college boys wearing their school uniforms beating the big-time pros in their shoe company singlets - like Salazar winning the New York Marathon with Oregon in his chest, or like the Stanford guys dominating the 1500m at the Olympic trials last year. And now Webb doing something similar wearing a South Lakes High School singlet. How cool was that? I'd love to see him continue that trend over the next four years wearing Michigan on his chest. Kurt Bray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _ William P. Bahnfleth, Ph.D., P.E. Associate Professor Department of Architectural Engineering The Pennsylvania State University 224 Engineering Unit A University Park, PA 16802-1416 USA voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm _
t-and-f: Filothei Women Gala - Results
Venelina Veneva cleared 2,00 in Filothei Women Gala, held earlier today in Athens. Tereza Marinova won the triple jump with 14, 51 m. facing with the strong wind and Tania Koleva set a national pole vault record for Bulgraria at 4, 43 m. Full results are published at the official site of the meeting: http://www.filothei-gala.gr/index.html We apologize for the lack of real time results of the meeting, as both our site (http://www.athletix.net) and the official site of the meeting faced enormous problems during last hours. The sites weren't accessible, not because ofour responsibility but as a result of the provider's problems which host both sites. All these are now fixed and so we won't have the same problem concerning the two major meetings, to be held in Greece on the coming Saturday (Kalamata) and Monday (Chania). Michalis Nikitaridis - Panayotis Christopoulos http://www.athletix.net
RE: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb...
Kurt Bray wrote: Well, apart from the personal value to him of the education that he will receive in college, I hope he runs in college because I've always liked it when we get to see the college boys wearing their school uniforms beating the big-time pros in their shoe company singlets I must admit that when I was running in college, I got a big kick out of such events such as Thomas Jefferson beating Elliot Quow in the 200 meters at the Jim Thorpe meet at Penn State in 1984. But, when I got to be a post collegiate athlete, I could see first hand, how unorganized, unfunded, unsupported, and unappreciated the post collegiate was by and large. It's become more and more difficult to be allowed to enter collegiate meets and the money isn't very plentiful. Sure, the top 5-10% in the world are supported fairly well, but the post collegiate system is still pretty shaky in the US despite the best efforts of USATF and some past and present sponsors. The collegiate athlete is, in comparison, very well supported (at least in Division I) and consequently, usually does well in competition. Keith Whitman Head Cross Country Coach Assistant Track Field Coach University of Nebraska-Kearney (308) 865-8070 (office) (308) 338-1115 (home) (308) 865-8187 (fax) http://www.unk.edu/athletics/track [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: Edmonton travel plans? ACT now -- most everything is booked!
We interrupt the Webb web talk for a veryimportant warning: If you plan on seeing the Webb-El Grematch in person and haven't made your Edmonton travel plans yet, do so NOW. Most connections to/from Edmonton, and even Calgary are for the most part bookedduring the opening/closing days. I spent five hours this morning (very late in the game, I know)finalizing my itinerary, which includes planes, trains and a bus ride from Vancouver to Seattle... The down side is that I'll miss the opening and most of Saturday, but the BIG perk is a full-daytrain ride via Rail Canada through the Canadian rockiesfrom Vancouverto Edmonton... Granted, I limited myself to airlines honoring my sacred stash of frequent flier miles, but most airlines reported little to no availability.Asked the gracious US Airways operator with whom I planned my itinerary for more than two hours-- "What's going on over there, anyway?" Best of luck. -| Bob Ramsak| TRACK PROFILE News Service| *Images, Features and Coverage of Track Field, Road Racing and Olympic Sport| Cleveland, Ohio USA| [EMAIL PROTECTED]|| http://www.trackprofile.com
RE: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb...
There is a proposal at the University of Virginia to eliminate indoor track and make men's outdoor track a non-scholarship sport. The reasons given are Title IX and budgetary concerns. I don't know if it has been approved. For more info, go to http://www.cavalierdaily.com and do a search for track and field. Ed Koch Virginia Law '80 --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 29, 2001 6:56:15 PM GMT Subject: RE: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb... Brian wrote: One reason might be that if he blows out his Achilles or gets cancer or has an auto accident and can never run again ... Nike won't pay anything for him to attend College when he is 30. College expenses for U. of M. out-of-state must be $90-120,000 for four years. Well, I know that U of M is a pretty good school, but this is a bit of hyperbole. Why would he bother, when there are some pretty decent schools in his back yard (George Mason) where he could live at home and continue to train with his coach while paying in-state tuition. Or if he wanted to step up, he might be able to get into UVa, a couple hours away from his HS coach. In any case, I imagine that Webb could get a very good education in Virginia for a lot less than 90K. There's something to be said for a runner staying where he/she's familiar with the terrain, and with a coach who's constructed a program where he/she could thrive. Another concern would be with climate - training in Ann Arbor through the winter/spring will be a lot different than training in Reston, which gets an occasional snowfall, but where you can put in quality work outside virtually all winter. Phil
Re: t-and-f: Webb, Warhurst, and others
At 08:10 AM 5/29/2001 -0700, t-and-f-digest wrote.. Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:25:53 -0400 From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Webb, Warhurst, and others Good results? I can't think of another (current) college coach who has produced more than Warhurst. malmo Ron Warhurst at Michigan is very much underrated. Part of that is because he seems to count Ontario at the 51st state when he recruits. But he does more with average American high schoolers than just about any other coach I know of. Richard McCann
Re: RE: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb...
In a message dated 5/30/01 11:40:22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Webb's presence should do good things for the visibility of track and cross-country meets in the Big 10. The guy in the street has actually heard of him and might show up to see a college meet if he's running. Rumor has it in Eugene that ticket outlets were bombarded by queries from people who wanted tickets to the NCAA this weekend so i can watch that high school kid run. sigh gh
t-and-f: How do I subscribe to the list??? I need info for friend.
From: Reuben Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Reuben Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: interesting story about Denis Fykes Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 07:32:04 -0700 (PDT) http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/2001/011801/staff.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Fwd: t-and-f: more on Webb
But if he's thinking about the 2004 games, grand prix seasons in 2002 and 2003 would certainly be a good learning experience. At what point does the NCAA schedule become too great a liability for someone who is trying to become the best in the world? - - Ed Parrot I think going to Michigan allows Webb to get an anchor for his post collegiate career, which may begin as early at summer 2002. Warhurst is great about training and coaching post collegiates (I was one who was there for grad school rather than running). Webb will have a great resource and high caliber training base. Richard McCann
Re: t-and-f: Top 3 American Performances of last 18 years...
At 08:10 AM 5/29/2001 -0700, t-and-f-digest wrote.. Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 18:00:41 -0700 From: Brian McGuire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Top 3 American Performances of last 18 years... Since young Alan Webb was born 18 years ago, I'd say his shattering of Jim Ryun's prep mile record ranks No. 2 on the Top American Distance Running Peformances during that time. No. 1--Joanie winning gold in LA No. 3--Bob Kennedy breaking 13:00 A tremendous milestone, in my book... Brian McGuire Was Webb born before or after Decker-Slaney's win in the 1983 Helsinki WCs? I'd put that second on the list. But you're right about one thing--the pickens' are pretty slim. Richard McCann
t-and-f: Ed Grant contact
Could someone please send me Ed Grant's email and/or phone number? We need to get ahold of him. Thanx Richard McCann
t-and-f: Fwd: improvement and Lindgren
I'm so excited about the kid that I went back to my lists of high school improvements to see what he might improve to in the next 15 years. Here is a sample of runners to give you an idea. Highschool bestimprovement Gerry Lindgren 4:01.5 4:01.5 0 Going back to a thread a couple of months ago, using Lindgren as a measuring stick is probably not appropriate. He only ran the mile in high school because it was the longest distance allowed in Washington state at the time. They added the two mile the next year due to Lindgren's success. He did not race the mile at an elite level in college or afterwards because he was true distance runner. You should look at his 3 mile progress instead as a better indicator. 13:17 in HS, 12:53 in college, or 8 seconds per mile. Richard McCann
Fwd: t-and-f: Webb and UM
Or if he wanted to step up, he might be able to get into UVa, a couple hours away from his HS coach. In any case, I imagine that Webb could get a very good education in Virginia for a lot less than 90K. Michigan is among the top 5 public universities in almost any ranking, and the difference among the top 20 of all colleges is pretty small. Michigan is often rated higher than UVa for its undergraduate education. Michigan is always much higher than UVa in its graduate program rankings. (I went there as a graduate). UC Berkeley is rated higher public university for both undergrad and grad. (I went there for both as well.) As for the cost of education, it costs society (since we'd be footing Webb's bill) essentially the same at Michigan or Virginia. The in-state vs out of state tuition is simply an accounting and tax burden issue that has absolutely nothing to do with actual costs. Richard McCann
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb
Lets not forget that college is kind of a fun time. If I could go to school for 10 years, I would, college is great. Let the kid grow up. I've never been to Ann Arbor, but all reports suggest its a great college town. Good football team for those non-meet fall Saturdays...Tommy Amaker running the show in hoops...good stuff. If Webb had signed with Stanford, by all means I'd say GO PRO! Grote adiRP/MMRD - Original Message - From: Martin J. Dixon To: Track Field List Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:17 AM Subject: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb I realize that this is all hypothetical but why couldn't he get a 4 year deal with a shoe company that stipulates that he will be attending school and that he controls when and where he can compete? Somebody would have to offer it to him obviously and I don't know whether a shoe company would. Most of the big meets take place when he is out of school. There have been successful athletes out there who have hadjobs(Steve Jones comes to mind) and I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't realize just how easy I had it when I went to post secondary school. 8 months a year with a lot of time off-nice gig if you can get it. I don't know how Webb is scholastically but it strikes me that a shoe company could get some mileage out of this kind of association. Maybe there are some issues to do with stepping on the toes of the NCAA but I don't know.T F is unique compared to other big name sports becausea large part of its' competitive schedule does not take place during the school year like football, basketball, hockey etc. Regards, Martin
t-and-f: Jackson's 9:55.63 an American record?
Post, Marty wrote: When Ellizabeth Jackson ran 9:55.63 at San Diego on 18 May it was on a track with a 3.06m short pit (as opposed to a 3.66 long pit). This was faster than her American record of 9:57.20 last year. Since a short pit should produce faster times, does this preclude the mark from being ratified as an American record? Elizabeth's American record from last year was sent at Sacramento, also on a short pit. Thus, her time from San Diego should also count as a record. Although the whole thing is confusing, IAAF rules permit the 3.06m pit. I'm not sure what USATF rules say this year. For women steeple fans, keep an eye out for results next week at Hengelo (NED) and Poznan (Poland) - two good fields have been assembled. Anita Weyerman is making her debut in the event at Hengelo and Poznan has 3 sub 10:00 steeplers entered (including last year's world #2 and #3). Kevin Williams
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb
No kidding. Let him have some fun in college. If he's truly destined to follow in Ryun's footsteps then Congress is also in his future. If he has LOTS of fun in college, he'll be perfectly qualified. sdc
t-and-f: Official idiocy
Netters: This actually happened at one of our sectional meets last weekend. I wasn't present at this meet, but me source is unimpeachable. First, some background. While the meet had an auto-timer present and picture sof each race were taken, it was to be consulted only when there was some dispute about trhe order of finish or when the hand-wtahces showed a tie and the AT was neded ot break it., At least, that's the way it was supposed to be. Two things heppened during the set of four 400 rinals (two boys, two girls). In one boys; race, there was a question over timing. Two boys from different heats had hand times of 50.33 and 50.37. The AT head man suggested that this could only be resolved bylooking at the auto-times since the hand times, by the rule book, have to be rounded up to 51.0. Not so, insisted the finish line chief, the hand times were to be taken as valid to to hundreth of a second. But that was nothing. There ws no question who had finished first in the other f=400 final until the times were taken. Somehow, the second place time was faster than the first. Instead of simply adjustiung the time, the same head official reversed the order of the finish, giving precedence to time over place. It was quite a while before that one was settled and the right boy given the gold medal and the points. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb
In a message dated 5/30/01 14:54:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No kidding. Let him have some fun in college. If he's truly destined to follow in Ryun's footsteps then Congress is also in his future. If he has LOTS of fun in college, he'll be perfectly qualified. if he has LOTS of fun in college, he's probably not following in Ryun's footsteps. gh
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb
In a message dated 5/30/01 14:26:33, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If Webb had signed with Stanford, by all means I'd say GO PRO! is there a difference? :-)
t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb's coach.
Does anyone know anything about Webb's coach? Where did he run, how good was he, has he gotten lucky the past few years or has he produced good runners other from other years? Obviously South Lakes is a very good HS program is they have another kid that can do 3:00 for 1200m. That poor kid is a good runner in his own right and no one even knows his name. I thought he was a young coach. Is he the next Pat Tyson or Joe Newtown? Marty O. In a message dated 01-05-30 12:30:48 EDT, you write: I think a lot of times what turns a great high school runner into an afterthought is the change in coach in college. If I was a college coach and Webb was coming to me I'd be asking Webb's high school coach for a little help now and then, just so I don't screw things up. Find out what Webb has been doing and keep doing it. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb's coach.
Marty, Just because you ran fast doesn't mean you can coach. Heck, I have no idea if guys like Vigil or Larsen or Warhurst or Newton ran a competitive step in their lives. All I know is that they can coach better than most. My $.02 is that being a student of the sport and a good motivator are far more important factors in being a quality coach than being able to string together 400's faster than your competitor... Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know anything about Webb's coach? Where did he run, how good was he, has he gotten lucky the past few years or has he produced good runners other from other years? Obviously South Lakes is a very good HS program is they have another kid that can do 3:00 for 1200m. That poor kid is a good runner in his own right and no one even knows his name. I thought he was a young coach. Is he the next Pat Tyson or Joe Newtown? Marty O. In a message dated 01-05-30 12:30:48 EDT, you write: I think a lot of times what turns a great high school runner into an afterthought is the change in coach in college. If I was a college coach and Webb was coming to me I'd be asking Webb's high school coach for a little help now and then, just so I don't screw things up. Find out what Webb has been doing and keep doing it. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb's coach.
not to mention mr frank gaglianoformer pro quarterback. toby From: Joe Rubio [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Joe Rubio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb's coach. Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:17:33 -0700 Marty, Just because you ran fast doesn't mean you can coach. Heck, I have no idea if guys like Vigil or Larsen or Warhurst or Newton ran a competitive step in their lives. All I know is that they can coach better than most. My $.02 is that being a student of the sport and a good motivator are far more important factors in being a quality coach than being able to string together 400's faster than your competitor... Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know anything about Webb's coach? Where did he run, how good was he, has he gotten lucky the past few years or has he produced good runners other from other years? Obviously South Lakes is a very good HS program is they have another kid that can do 3:00 for 1200m. That poor kid is a good runner in his own right and no one even knows his name. I thought he was a young coach. Is he the next Pat Tyson or Joe Newtown? Marty O. In a message dated 01-05-30 12:30:48 EDT, you write: I think a lot of times what turns a great high school runner into an afterthought is the change in coach in college. If I was a college coach and Webb was coming to me I'd be asking Webb's high school coach for a little help now and then, just so I don't screw things up. Find out what Webb has been doing and keep doing it. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: 19th street café: Official gaming center of the USATF Champs
I'll wager a few Buds on that one too. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 1:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Webb at Pre In a message dated 5/30/01 09:57:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would also disagree with Editor Hill on how the 1500m will go in June. Webb IS better than the Jennings/Berryhill/Stember/Lassiter types who will be demoralized by him in Eugene, and I'll bet a few Terminators at the 19th St. Cafe on that one. Since my lunch on Monday consisted of Terminators (and a couple of pounds of greasy fries) at the 19th, I'm obviously up for this kind of wagering! Editor Hill
t-and-f: Tickets for Webb's race
Garry Hill wrote: here's a Webb prediction for you: if you haven't already bought a ticket for the session with the men's 1500 at USATF here in Eugene, you probably don't have much time left before the tix disappear. (no inside knowledge here; just a guess based on how much coverage he's getting) Have no fear, there are plenty of tickets left for all days of the Championships (see eugenechamps.com for ticket details). Eugene is a notorious last-minute town, and the GMC Envoy USA Outdoor Track Field Championships is no exception. However, if Webb makes it through the First Round on Thursday, I would guess tickets for the Final on Saturday, June 23, would be gone by the end of Friday. Hope so, anyway! Tom Jordan eugenechamps.com
t-and-f: GOLF AT USATF NATLS 6/22 (FRI)
If you are interested in joining us for an early morning round of golf on Friday 6/22 please respond to me off list ASAP. We'll be playing at the famed Sandpines course on the Oregon dunes (just an hour west in Florence). Greens fee is $50 (walking)...add$26 for the Casey Martin cart. We'll be back to Hayward Field in plenty of time for the late afternoon running events. best, Mike Mike Fanelli San Francisco Bay Area Real Estate Specialist professional representation of buyers and sellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 415.447.6254 or visit my web site at: www.SFabode.com
t-and-f: UVA TF
Ed, This is a done deal. Another DI school screws Men's TF in the name of supposed equality. Maybe you'll want to remember that when they send the donation requests this year. I spoke with a relative/alumni about this recently and he was not pleased to say the least. Additionally the AD resigned 2 weeks after announcing the decision to take a job in the Campus Administration as a VP. MJR
Re: t-and-f: Webb at Pre
On Wed, 30 May 2001 13:16:22 EDT, you wrote: In a message dated 5/30/01 09:57:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would also disagree with Editor Hill on how the 1500m will go in June. Webb IS better than the Jennings/Berryhill/Stember/Lassiter types who will be demoralized by him in Eugene, and I'll bet a few Terminators at the 19th St. Cafe on that one. Since my lunch on Monday consisted of Terminators (and a couple of pounds of greasy fries) at the 19th, I'm obviously up for this kind of wagering! Editor Hill How's this for forecasting: If the USATF 1500 proceeds along the typical tactical lines- i.e. sit and kick... ...they will be playing right into Webb's strength... ...the best way to knock off Webb would be to take it out hard and drain the kick out of the kid's legs... ...agree or disagree?... RT
t-and-f: Track and FIeld Jewelry
Does anyone know where I can find some good track and field jewelry such as a winged foot pendant or necklace? Thanks, Dee Brown Please contact me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quotes aren't something you can just make up.(D.Brown 1974-) http://www.geocities.com/nyssabrown/index.html GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
RE: t-and-f: Tickets for Webb's race
They'll be sold out faster than you can say butt-ugly-nursery-stock-trees-in-dirty-plastic-buckets! PS Track Fans: I DID offer to raise the money to make them butt-ugly-nursery-stock-trees-in-tacky-ass-terra-cotta-buckets I tried, so don't blame me. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of T. Jordan Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Tickets for Webb's race Garry Hill wrote: here's a Webb prediction for you: if you haven't already bought a ticket for the session with the men's 1500 at USATF here in Eugene, you probably don't have much time left before the tix disappear. (no inside knowledge here; just a guess based on how much coverage he's getting) Have no fear, there are plenty of tickets left for all days of the Championships (see eugenechamps.com for ticket details). Eugene is a notorious last-minute town, and the GMC Envoy USA Outdoor Track Field Championships is no exception. However, if Webb makes it through the First Round on Thursday, I would guess tickets for the Final on Saturday, June 23, would be gone by the end of Friday. Hope so, anyway! Tom Jordan eugenechamps.com
Re: RE: t-and-f: Alan Webb
In a message dated 5/29/01 07:17:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has ANY other sub-4 miler in history dropped their outdoor PR by 8 seconds? Prior to running his WR 3:48.95, Coe's mile pr was 3:57.7, but there was almost a 2 year gap between them. Ed Prytherch
t-and-f: IAAF meet resistance to television friendly changes
The Electronic Telegraph Thursday 31 May 2001 Tom Knight Resistance to a raft of proposed rule changes is gathering pace with athletes, coaches and administrators joining forces to thwart plans to make athletics supposedly more television-friendly. More than 60 changes will be debated by the 210 national federations, at their biennial congress, in Edmonton, Canada before this summer's World Championships. They include amending the system of false starts in the sprints, limiting field events to four rounds instead of six and giving high jumpers and pole vaulters only two attempts at each height instead of three. Some of the proposals involve sweeping changes, such as scrapping the indoor 200 metres altogether. Others appear to attend to the minutiae although reducing the length of the peg supporting the bar in the pole vault would demand a greater precision from the athlete and prevent the practice known as voltzing whereby the more gymnastic competitors are able to replace the bar with their hand. However, in their attempt to hang on to and improve TV viewing figures, in the face of competition from year-round football, the International Amateur Athletic Federation may be pushing their luck. UK Athletics, whose three-man delegation at the IAAF congress will be led by David Moorcroft, the chief executive, are already lobbying hard among the European federations to stand firm against changes which could fundamentally affect the nature of events. They have the support of Peter Matthews, the editor of The International Track and Field Annual, the bible of the sport. In the 2001 edition, Matthews writes: The stated intention of such ideas is to shorten meetings, providing spectaculars of greater interest to television. Any sport must avoid compromising its fundamental standards and ideals to chase presumed TV interest. In this case, such changes in regulations would reduce the competitions in every way and deprive the spectators of much enjoyment. And the changes would make not a jot of difference to TV coverage as, all too often, they would still fail to cover field events properly. Max Jones, Britain's performance director, said: All rules should be athlete-centred and a lot of these are media, spectator and meeting-driven. The rules should allow for the best athlete to win. The change creating the biggest stink by far is the one proposed for the sprints. Current rules allow an athlete to make two false starts before being disqualified. This is the rule Linford Christie fell foul of at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, where he was the defending champion. The IAAF want sprinters eliminated after only one false start, as is the case in swimming and on the American collegiate circuit. Said Jones: I can understand how a lot of false starts can make it frustrating for TV but it also adds to the tension. Allowing only one false start is too draconian a change. I keep hearing how successful this rule is in the United States but if that's the case, why are so many American athletes against it? Therein lies the key to the debate. If the IAAF listen to anyone, it is their stars and they don't come any bigger than Maurice Greene and Marion Jones. Greene and Jones are among 47 of the world's top stars, including Ato Boldon and Christine Arron, who have signed a petition urging the IAAF to reject the changes. Jones said: It's ridiculous. If we happen to false-start, we're dead. We're knocked out of the competition. I don't think it's fair. Added Greene: I will do it if they want, but if you have a meet and the top three stars are out because of one false start, the people will be upset. As a 100m runner you are running on the edge. I can't afford to sit back. And how's this for an example of the shorthand so beloved by American sports stars? Stacey Dragila, the Olympic champion and world record holder, outlined her opposition to changing the number of attempts allowed in the pole vault thus: I'm just firing up on thirds. I think a true track fan enjoys the suspense of the second and third attempts, when it gets down to crunch time, and who is going to make it and who is not. Their opinons appeared to be something of a shock to the IAAF president, Lamine Diack, who was in the US at the weekend for the Prefontaine Classic Grand Prix in Eugene, Oregon. Said a bemused Diack: We were thinking the proposed changes could be good for the sport before we received this reaction from the athletes. The battle may already have been won. My esteemed colleagues in the US are justifiably getting very excited about student Alan Webb, 18, who at the Prefontaine Classic meeting broke, by almost two seconds, Jim Ryun's 36-year-old high-school record for the mile with a run of 3min 53.43sec. The time earned him fourth place behind Morocco's Hicham El Guerrouj, the world record holder, who won in 3min 49.43sec, the first sub-3.50 mile ever run in the US. It was 20 years ago in August that Seb Coe and Steve Ovett broke the
t-and-f: College is fun
Grote wrote: Lets not forget that college is kind of a fun time. If I could go to school for 10 years, I would, college is great. Let the kid grow up. I agree - the first ten years of college was great. Since then it has been tougher. Seriously, though, I probably would not suggest anyone in the US skip college, but those who brought it up raise very legitimate questions. Those who argue that the best years for distance runners are after college have a circular argument - is that because runners naturally peak in their late twenties, or because college running keeps them from reaching their peak? A lot of the best Africans reach Olympic medal level at an age when Americans would still be in school. Given the most reliable reports I have of their training, it is harder than virtually anyone in college here trains. It is arguably harder than one can train while attending school full time. It is also an arguable point that the body's recovery processes work best, thus allowing the greatest volume of high intensity work, when you are younger. These things have all been discussed on the list, long before Webb was a sub-4:00 miler. Discussing them again in a specific context actually makes the points involved more obvious. That does not mean it is for any of us to make life decisions for anyone else, regardless of how fast we think they might run. And my wife would remind you that there are priorities in life other than running fast. I don't know what she means by that, but it could play into things somehow. david
t-and-f: Marty O's question on Webb's coach.
Aw, c'mon guys. Marty asks some legitimate questions at the end of his e-mail - and so far he's received 3 responses - all of which are slamming him because he asks where did he run? amongst his other questions without going farther. Let's look at it (Marty's questions enumerated): 1. Does anyone know anything about Webb's coach? -- pretty open-ended. 2. Where did he run? -- OK, you guys are rippin' on him here - then stopping. 3. How good was he? -- same as above 4. Has he gotten lucky the past few years or has he produced good runners from other years? -- legitimate coaching question 5. Is he the next Pat Tyson or Joe Newton? -- legitimate coaching question It seems to me it would be more productive for someone to speak up and answer the questions - rather than just question the validity of them. I don't know much about Raczko. He organizes the Northern Virginia Track Club. I know South Lakes' track team was 4th in the state last spring, and 7th in the state XC meet last fall. In 1999, they were 8th in regionals for XC - which is their semi-final. They have about 25 boys on their XC team, and are a big school. FWIW, Joe Newton has phenomenal turnouts - finishing with 80+ runners each year. Also, in case anyone cares, Newton was a sprinter in college. His times sounded good to me - they wouldn't be great by today's standards - but Newton is about 72 years old - so I try to put it in context of 50 years ago. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know anything about Webb's coach? Where did he run, how good was he, has he gotten lucky the past few years or has he produced good runners other from other years? Obviously South Lakes is a very good HS program is they have another kid that can do 3:00 for 1200m. That poor kid is a good runner in his own right and no one even knows his name. I thought he was a young coach. Is he the next Pat Tyson or Joe Newtown? Marty O. In a message dated 01-05-30 12:30:48 EDT, you write: I think a lot of times what turns a great high school runner into an afterthought is the change in coach in college. If I was a college coach and Webb was coming to me I'd be asking Webb's high school coach for a little help now and then, just so I don't screw things up. Find out what Webb has been doing and keep doing it. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. = Dave Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: half-joking thought about Webb's coach.
Vin Lananna was a 4:22 miler in college. Nuf Said
t-and-f: Fwd: Marty O's question on Webb's coach.
Dave, Thanks for sticking up for me. I am sorry if people thought I was saying you had to be a good runner to be a good coach. But as I explained to Joe, I have coached a 4:16 miler among many other future DI runners and I was not what anyone in our sport would call a good runner. (I hold my own against the joggers in the local roadraces but that is it). I am a student of the sport and I still consider myself a young coach. But when I see someone younger than me produce someone who has steadily impoved over the past few years to such great results, I am interested in his background. I have a great deal of respect for Coach Raczko and would just like to learn more about him and how someone so young can do such great coaching. Marty Ogden Danbury Track In a message dated 01-05-30 22:20:12 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aw, c'mon guys. Marty asks some legitimate questions at the end of his e-mail - and so far he's received 3 responses - all of which are slamming him because he asks where did he run? amongst his other questions without going farther. Let's look at it (Marty's questions enumerated): 1. Does anyone know anything about Webb's coach? -- pretty open-ended. 2. Where did he run? -- OK, you guys are rippin' on him here - then stopping. 3. How good was he? -- same as above 4. Has he gotten lucky the past few years or has he produced good runners from other years? -- legitimate coaching question 5. Is he the next Pat Tyson or Joe Newton? -- legitimate coaching question It seems to me it would be more productive for someone to speak up and answer the questions - rather than just question the validity of them. I don't know much about Raczko. He organizes the Northern Virginia Track Club. I know South Lakes' track team was 4th in the state last spring, and 7th in the state XC meet last fall. In 1999, they were 8th in regionals for XC - which is their semi-final. They have about 25 boys on their XC team, and are a big school. FWIW, Joe Newton has phenomenal turnouts - finishing with 80+ runners each year. Also, in case anyone cares, Newton was a sprinter in college. His times sounded good to me - they wouldn't be great by today's standards - but Newton is about 72 years old - so I try to put it in context of 50 years ago. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know anything about Webb's coach? Where did he run, how good was he, has he gotten lucky the past few years or has he produced good runners other from other years? Obviously South Lakes is a very good HS program is they have another kid that can do 3:00 for 1200m. That poor kid is a good runner in his own right and no one even knows his name. I thought he was a young coach. Is he the next Pat Tyson or Joe Newtown? Marty O. In a message dated 01-05-30 12:30:48 EDT, you write: I think a lot of times what turns a great high school runner into an afterthought is the change in coach in college. If I was a college coach and Webb was coming to me I'd be asking Webb's high school coach for a little help now and then, just so I don't screw things up. Find out what Webb has been doing and keep doing it. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. = Dave Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ /XMP --- Headers Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (rly-ye03.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.200]) by air-ye03.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.37) with ESMTP; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:20:11 -0400 Received: from web4502.mail.yahoo.com (web4502.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.105.63]) by rly-ye03.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.36) with ESMTP; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:19:45 -0400 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from [207.244.209.2] by web4502.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 30 May 2001 19:19:43 PDT Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 19:19:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Marty O's question on Webb's coach. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Aw, c'mon guys. Marty asks some legitimate questions at the end of his e-mail - and so far he's received 3 responses - all of which are slamming him because he asks where did he run? amongst his other questions without going farther. Let's look at it (Marty's questions enumerated): 1. Does anyone know anything about Webb's coach? -- pretty open-ended. 2. Where did he run? -- OK, you guys are rippin' on him here - then stopping. 3. How good was he? -- same as above 4. Has
Re: t-and-f: IAAF meet resistance to television friendly changes
The Electronic Telegraph Thursday 31 May 2001 Tom Knight ... They have the support of Peter Matthews, the editor of The International Track and Field Annual, the bible of the sport. In the 2001 edition,... ^ Uh-oh- I can see it now, get out the banjos for a rousing rendition of 'dueling bibles' Doesn't GH have a copyright on that 'tag' ? :-) RT
t-and-f: Webb
With all of this talk about Webb, let's not forget several things. 1.He didn't pick his high school coach. What diference does it make if the coach did or didn't run at a big college or ran fast or not.? The important thing is that Webb believes in him. Being an arm chair coach is easy to do. Let's drop this talk about his coach and/or his methods or motives. 2. Where Webb chooses to go to college is his business, not anyone on this list or any magazine writer in the country. So let this issue drop. I am sure that he has already put a lot of thought into what he wants to do, so let him do it in peace. 3. What Webb runs at the Virginia State High School meet or at the USATF meet or any other meet is his business. Don't second guess what he should or might do. If this list is for news and results, then let it be for that. If individuals feel compled to discuss the above mentioned items, then do if off list with those who want to partake in this venture. And by the way, I don't have any vested interest in what Webb does, even if I am a native Virginian.
t-and-f: NCAA women's steeple men's 10,000 splits
Women¹s Steeple Heat 1 Lap 1 76.3 Kleinmann, Kremer, MacDonald, Meldrum, PACK Lap 2 2:38.0 -- Kleinmann, MacDonald, Kremer, Meldrum, PACK Lap 3 4:00.1 -- Kleinmann, MacDonald, Kremer, Meldrum, PACK Lap 4 5:23.5 - Kleinmann, MacDonald, Kremer, Meldrum, PACK; Mulick, MeGettigan, Joslin start to straggle Lap 5 6:45.9 -- Kleinmann, MacDonald, Kremer, Meldrum, Evans break away Lap 6 8:08.0 -- Kleinmann, MacDonald, Kremer, Meldrum, Evans 8:54 1 lap to go Kleinmann still leads, Evans, MacDonald challenge on backstretch Lap 7 9:29.6 Kleinmann slight lead over Evans MacDonald; Kleinmann struggles over water jump, Evans bolts to lead and MacDonald goes by Heat 2 Lap 1 1:16.2 Bennion, Nilsson Pack Lap 2 2:37.6 -- Bennion, Nilsson, Jackson Pack Lap 3 4:00.2 Bennion, Nilsson, Jackson, Pack Gurnicz drops back Lap 4 5:23.0 -- Bennion, Nilsson, Jackson, Lap 5 6:44.2 -- Bennion, Jackson/ Hills, Nilsson, Larson, Lap 6 - 8:05.5 -- Bennion, Jackson/Hils 8:51 1 lap to go -- Bennion, Jackson/Hils,Nilsson/Larson Lap 7 9:26.3 Bennion, Jackson/ Nilsson, Hils/ Larson, Turner athletes held position over the final lap, with Turner moving up strongly over last 50 meters. Men¹s 10,000 1st Kilo 2:52.0 Shay, Kelly, Sell, Link, Karie (4:34.7 @ 1600) 2nd kilo 5:44.4 - Shay, Kelly, Link, Karie, Sell, Riley 3rd Kilo 8:39.4 -- Shay, Kelly, Link, Karie, Hartman, Riley, Mutai, Bazzi (9:14.6 @ 3200) 4th Kilo 11:38.6 -- Shay, Kelly, Link, Hartman, Riley, Karie, Mutai, Bazzi 5th Kilo 14:37.0 -- Shay, Link / Karie, Kelly, Mutai, Hartman, Riley, Bazzi 6th Kilo 17:35.1 Link, Shay// Mutai, Bizuneh, Riley, Hartman, McArdle, Karie, Bazzi 7th Kilo 20:31.1 -- Shay, Link// Mutai, McArdle, Hartman, Bizuneh//Riley// Kelley, Karie, Bazzi, 8th Kilo 23:27.7 -- Shay, Link// Mutai,McArdle,Bizuneh,Hartman// Riley//Kelly//Karie/Bazzi SHAY MAKES STRONG MOVE with 2000 remaining 9th Kilo 26:19.6 -- Shay//Link// Bizuneh,Mutai,Hartman// Riley// Kelly// Bazzi FINISH Shay29:05.44 Link29:25.75 Hartman 29:28.97 Mutai 29:30:30 McArdle 29:32.39 Bizuneh 29:33.18 Kelly 29:51.75 Bazzi 29:53.26 Mike Scott Vice Chair/Secretary, USATF Cross Country Council Clubs Coordinator, Team USA Distance Running Coordinator, CanAm High Performance Distance Circuit [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://miscott.home.att.net/
Re: t-and-f: Webb
Sorry Trey, but if Webb is running elite track, then we get to talk about it. Read the list charter - this list is about more than just news and results - opinions are welcome too (provided they are on-topic and not loaded with profanity). All the things you mention are indeed his business, and having opinions about them and talking about them is our business. Any list member who feels compelled to talk about Alan Webb's elite track career has come to the right place. And any elite track athlete who doesn't want get talked about should retire and take up bookkeeping or some other endeavor out of the public eye. BTW, My opinions on these topics are that: 1. His coach is doing a great job, and I don't care where or what times he ran back in his day. 2. I think Michigan is a great choice, but I would have preferred that he had chosen Stanford. 3. In the VA state meet he should run however many events his coach says he should. In the USATF meet he should run the 1500m only. Kurt Bray With all of this talk about Webb, let's not forget several things. 1.He didn't pick his high school coach. What diference does it make if the coach did or didn't run at a big college or ran fast or not.? The important thing is that Webb believes in him. Being an arm chair coach is easy to do. Let's drop this talk about his coach and/or his methods or motives. 2. Where Webb chooses to go to college is his business, not anyone on this list or any magazine writer in the country. So let this issue drop. I am sure that he has already put a lot of thought into what he wants to do, so let him do it in peace. 3. What Webb runs at the Virginia State High School meet or at the USATF meet or any other meet is his business. Don't second guess what he should or might do. If this list is for news and results, then let it be for that. If individuals feel compled to discuss the above mentioned items, then do if off list with those who want to partake in this venture. And by the way, I don't have any vested interest in what Webb does, even if I am a native Virginian. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
