Re: t-and-f: SP Marking at Payton Jordan Meet
No one works for the governmentthey are employed by the government. Now, don't jump on me, that came from a state employee. Trey Failure is not an option. - Original Message - From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: t-and-f@darkwing.uoregon.edu Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 10:50 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: SP Marking at Payton Jordan Meet It's a common joke over here, even amongst gov't workers (I was one for a while). Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, June 9, 2005 9:58 pm Subject: Re: t-and-f: SP Marking at Payton Jordan Meet I didn't notice that precisely, but I did have the odd feeling that the guy doing the measuring thought that anywhere fairly near where the shot landed was close enough for government work. Mitch YAK! Maybe I'm just missing the 'funny' part in this comment (English is not my first language). But as I read it, this is an unneccesary, unwarranted, CHEAP shot at both the jury member and government workers? If so, I sure hope you apologize to any and all jury members who (in 99.9% of the cases) VOLUNTEER their time at athletics meets you attend, where they often have to deal with similar s..tty comments (maybe you should even apologize to all those government workers out there each time they go out of their way providing either you, your loved ones and/or friends with services or funds) Wilmar (and no, I do not work in government) http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Top MPV Finishers and Seasonal Bests
Roger, The IAAF web site at www.iaaf.org has all of the results, including the progressions in the field events. Go to Live Results and then to the day and then to the event. Every statistic you would want is there. Trey Jackson Lebanon, PA - Original Message - From: Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: t-and-f: Top MPV Finishers and Seasonal Bests I wonder whether any other events showed five of the top six finishers posting their seasonal best marks? Great, gutty competition! Rank Name Result 1 MACK Timothy USA 5.95 SB, PB. OR 2 STEVENSON Toby USA 5.90 3 GIBILISCO Giuseppe ITA 5.85 SB 4 PAVLOV Igor RUS 5.80 SB, PB 5 ECKER Danny GER 5.75 SB 6 BORGELING Lars GER 5.75 SB
Re: t-and-f: NBC coverage of men's Olympic 10K
Yes, the 10,000m was done nicely. I was shocked. I am also shocked by the lack of comments on the men's and women's shot coverage at the original Olympic stadium, and on the performances by the US contingent. Even if the results were not as expected, it was exciting to see something that has been technologized to death get so pure. No stadium seats, no commentators who didn't know what they were talking about, no PA system booming over the athletes. Maybe cinder tracks should make a comeback. I guess that everyone on the list was still stewing over the security at the Olympic trials and the seating. Trey Jackson Lebanon, PA - Original Message - From: Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: NBC coverage of men's Olympic 10K I'm sure Walt Murphy would be happy to hear from you at [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Listers, Wow! I really enjoyed watching the men's 10k on NBC--in its entirety, with no commercials, good commentators and excellent camera work. Can someone please advise me to whom at NBC I should send my compliments? Thanks! Jim Reardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS I'm on digest--I'm sorry if this repeats other recent posts.
Re: t-and-f: Another idiotic jewelry DQ
Steve is right, rules is rules. If the organization sponsoring the meet follows that set of rules, it is up to the coaches and athletes to follow them. Too many times, people want to be the victim and not take responsibility for their actions. If the official didn't make the call earlier, then it isn't fair that the call be made after the fact. In my opinion, that is splitting hairs. Also, the coach who continued to make the protest over the jewelry needs to get a life and realize that mistakes can be made. Perhaps he doesn't know the intent of the rules. Nevertheless, the DQ stands. It is a shame, but it is reality. If I miss the 25mph speed limit sign because it is behind a bush and get pulled over in a town, I get nailed. Period. However, there is another issue. Perhaps the power's to be need to look at the rules structure of the sport. I know that in Pennsylvania, there are at least 8 sets of rules, depending on how is running the meet. (USATF, NCAA, PIAA [HS Assoc.], AAU, numerous HS conferences, and in Philadelphia, the private schools, the Catholic schools and the public schools). Granted, kids don't run in all of those jurisdictions, but many of the officials work in multiple formats. Confusion yes, ignorance no. It is my understanding in many places, the competition rules are the same for all ages and divisions, only the specifications for the events (weights and hurdles) vary for different ages. Other than the politics of the powers running the various organizations, what is keeping the sport to identify one set of rules and follow them. Perhaps then, there won't be incidents like the one mentioned here or the undergarment conspiracy of a few years ago. Trey Jackson A coach, official, meet director in Pennsylvania - Original Message - From: WARD, MARK -CKHS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Steve Vaitones' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: RE: t-and-f: Another idiotic jewelry DQ I agree with Steve. I hate the rule, but there needs to be some personal responsibility someplace. The rule has been in place for more than a year and we still see athletes try to come to the line with jewelry on. We even had an official make the statement This isn't that big of a meet. Go ahead and keep your necklace on. Needless to say, he has been banned from working meets in our league. I say get rid of the rule, but while it is here - Learn it and follow it. Mark Ward Head Coach, Central Kitsap T F President, WSTFCA It's a GREAT Day to Fly! -Original Message- From: Steve Vaitones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 6:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: t-and-f: Another idiotic jewelry DQ Writing as a devil's advocate (though I hope I won't burn in hell) with the perspective of an official at my share of HS meets in recent years: - What about personal responsibility? The rule is/has been pretty well publicized. If the athlete has got to the state meet level, they should know the rules. And this should be 'called' at the lower level starting at dual meets; these reminders do result in kids knowing the rule several meets into the season. - Same responsibility with the coach - might be a pain, but just as they'd ask if everyone has their uniform before the bus leaves, that the shot putter has their hand taped within the rules, you ask remind the kids to take off their jewelry - If the official didn't care, then he shouldn't be officiating that level meet anymore - are the officials coming from an officials association having worked dual and league meets beforehand or was it just a random individual? - Don't hear much about this in other sports, though it does apply to all sports, doesn't it? Steve Vaitones Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:51:58 -0400 From: Jim Gerweck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Another idiotic jewelry DQ To: Track Field [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jim Gerweck [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-ELNK-AV: 0 At this week's CT Class MM meet, one of the top 3 vaulters in the state was competing w/ one of those string and bead necklaces (the PV official either didn't notice or didn't care). An opposing coach did notice and informed the official, who wiped out the kid's first jump, and made him take off the necklace. The kid continued on, bare-necked, to win the competition. Then the same opposing coach went to the meet director and raised enough of a stink that the kid was DQd, even though he had complied w/ the PV official's instruction. Evidently competing w/ jewelry even once merits the death penalty. So basically, the jewelry rule is used primarily as an instrument for coaches to exact retribution on opposing athletes. And as far as I can see, it has done no appreciable good for the sport. If anyone thinks the rule, and specifically
Re: t-and-f: Another idiotic jewelry DQ
Again, I make my point, ignorance is no excuse. If the kid and the coach didn't know the rules at point in the season, then there isn't any excuse. I would assume that there was some sort of rules meeting prior to the season starting. If the coach didn't pass that along to his kids, then he is at fault. It is sad that the kid gets penalized for someone else's mistake or omission. It is unfortunate that the penalty occurred at the championship meet, but one also has to assume that the rules were again explained to the coaches, even if nothing more than a statement of what rules the competition would be held. Back to my point of missing a speed limit sign...it is in the Vehicle Code of Pennsylvania that all towns and built up areas have a 25mph limit unless otherwise posted. Visible sign or not, I would be busted if I was speeding. When I got my license, I acknowledged that I had read the guidelines for driving in Pennsylvania. Even if I skipped that page, it is my responsibility to follow the rules. The point is that the meet was run under a set of rules that stated no jewelry. If the official missed the jewelry and it was pointed out later, it still is a violation. The bad guy in this story isn't the kid or the official, I feel it is the coach who continued to protest when his kid probably lost. Perhaps, he/she needs to look at the intent of the rule vs. the letter of the rule. If the jewelry gave that athlete an advantage, then he has a point. If there wasn't any advantage gained, and the kid took off the jewelry as per the official's instructions, then why continue a protest. Trey Jackson - Original Message - From: Mitchell S. Clair, Esq [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Trey Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WARD, MARK -CKHS [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Steve Vaitones' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 1:36 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Another idiotic jewelry DQ no you don't---the sign has to properly inform you.Also, they don't nail you for 26mph. How about the punishment fit the crime? Remember George Brett and the pine tar incident? The rule was a player who uses an illegal bat is out and thrown out of the game. Brett used a bat that had pine tar higher up the bat than was allowed. He hits a homerun and the yankees complain and the bat is found to be illegal. Umpire rules he's out, no home run and he's out of the game. President of the American league says on appeal, hold on a sec. The rule concerning pine tar has nothing to do with performance, but just keeping the ball white. Game is replayed from that point with the homerun counting and Brett back in the game. The Royals now win the game instead of losing it. These are pros playing at the highest level for real stakes. A high school track official can't use anything close to the same common sense for a kid? - Original Message - From: Trey Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WARD, MARK -CKHS [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Steve Vaitones' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Another idiotic jewelry DQ Steve is right, rules is rules. If the organization sponsoring the meet follows that set of rules, it is up to the coaches and athletes to follow them. Too many times, people want to be the victim and not take responsibility for their actions. If the official didn't make the call earlier, then it isn't fair that the call be made after the fact. In my opinion, that is splitting hairs. Also, the coach who continued to make the protest over the jewelry needs to get a life and realize that mistakes can be made. Perhaps he doesn't know the intent of the rules. Nevertheless, the DQ stands. It is a shame, but it is reality. If I miss the 25mph speed limit sign because it is behind a bush and get pulled over in a town, I get nailed. Period. However, there is another issue. Perhaps the power's to be need to look at the rules structure of the sport. I know that in Pennsylvania, there are at least 8 sets of rules, depending on how is running the meet. (USATF, NCAA, PIAA [HS Assoc.], AAU, numerous HS conferences, and in Philadelphia, the private schools, the Catholic schools and the public schools). Granted, kids don't run in all of those jurisdictions, but many of the officials work in multiple formats. Confusion yes, ignorance no. It is my understanding in many places, the competition rules are the same for all ages and divisions, only the specifications for the events (weights and hurdles) vary for different ages. Other than the politics of the powers running the various organizations, what is keeping the sport to identify one set of rules and follow them. Perhaps then, there won't be incidents like the one mentioned here or the undergarment conspiracy of a few years ago. Trey Jackson A coach, official, meet director in Pennsylvania - Original Message - From: WARD
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
USATF Communications wrote: This guy is a first for USA Track Field, said President Bill Roe, introducing the mascot. We believe that the future of our sport lies with attracting and keeping youth, and this mascot will be a key to grabbing them early. The mascot will appear at numerous 2003 events and meetings. What is sad about this whole thing, in spite of the funny comments that are filling this list, is that no matter how much money is spent on this, no matter where it (the mascot) shows up, and no matter what publicity comes out of this; it appears that nothing positive is going to come out of this issue. At least, that is what is the consensus of this list. Track and field is filled with many ills; too many to repeat (as many have been done here so eloquently). We all know the problems. What is needed now is level headed thinking and not back porch politicking. Improvement in coaching at the scholastic and collegiate level, more opportunities for competition, research in improving equipment and safety, ideas for saving programs on the verge of being dropped, and a move to more head to head competition instead of chasing marks in a rule book are the areas that USATF should be focusing. Unfortunately, there are too many individuals who think that those last five items are pipe dreams. Some will say that I am a dreamer. Some will even admit that if any of those items get touched, that it will take some serious politicking to even be heard. (A paradox if there ever was one!) Now is not the time to sit on laurels and talk about mascots or what it used to be back in the day. USATF, the NCAA, and the high school federation have been run by politicians padding resumes for too long. What is needed is not butt kissing; what is needed is butt busting to get things done. There are plenty of administrators, coaches, athletes, officials, and parents out there who are willing to bust their butts to get things done. However, with the deluge of politicians, they get tuned out and turned off. Yeah, I know, USATF's mandate is to get athletes to win Olympic medals. That's what the Amateur Sports Act legislated when it formed the USOC and the national governing bodies. But, if the sport is not improved at the base level, the Olympic champs will never get there. However, putting stock in an un-named mascot, which the spin doctors think will help, is a poor use of resources. The other night, while filming the local high school game for the coach, I was yelled at by an older gentleman for blocking his view, he had been sitting in the same seat for 30 years. I told him that while I was sorry for blocking his view, that the coach wanted this angle (in the middle of the stands) for taping for the kids. The point I left him was that the game was for the kids and not the spectators. Of course, he didn't like that and went to complain to the A.D. The point of this story is that sport is for the kids (high school, college, open, or masters). Sometimes we need to change our perspective, in spite of too many years of sitting in the same seat. Track and field will continue to suffer the same ills that have plagued it for years if all of us and those who elect themselves in charge don't bust butts and get dirty and change our perspective as to what the sport is all about. Coming up with mascots or more committees isn't going to fix it. Just my two cents worth after coaching for over 20 years in the trenches. (Guess that this post will kill my credibility with the powers-to-be in the governing bodies.) Trey Jackson A Division III collegiate coach
t-and-f: test
test
Re: t-and-f: Penn Problem
Unknown to the posters, this situation has more to it than is implied in all of the posts. There is nothing being done by the coaches or the school administration involved that warrant comments such as are mentioned below (ego and stupidity..The young people do not have to put up with ridiculous rules) Before one makes statements like this, the complete facts should be known. However, this forum is not the place to try the athlete, the school, the coaches, or the PIAA, or air the facts. It is, as it should be, an issue that is and should be dealt with internally within the confines of the school system. Just like discipline hearing are not open to the public, internal affairs of a school system's program that involve students and staff should only be appropriately discussed in private. If and when it is appropriate, the facts will be released to the appropriate media by the parties involved. Let the appropriate administrative body(ies) handle this according to their policies in the professional manor that they are entitled. In the meantime, please let us use this forum for what it is intendeddiscusion of current coaching issues, meet results, and training information. Leave the other comments for the grocery store tabloids. J. Fred Duckett wrote: Ed Grant is absolutely right. What are coaches for - hard-nosed polcemen, or educators adding their area of taaching to the youngsters in their care. This is certainly a major case of ego and stupidity - yes stupidity!!. The young people do not have to putup with ridiculous rules like these, and if they did, an appropriate penalty might be found. These concrete-heads on the Hershey staff are merely put-out because they are faced with the accomplished fact that they have a runner who does not need them. I wish that at the small school where I help coach that we could find a talent of this strength. J. Fred Duckett, Houston, Texas --- Ed Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Netters: The Pennsylvania case cited by Walt Murphy sounds at this slkight distance across the Delaware as a case of a clash of egos. It is always possible that more is involved than was contained in the Inquirer story, but, on the surface, it does appear as much ado about nothing. One would think that the coaches would be happy to have a talented runner who trains year-around and is always in shape. What she does during the summer as far as competition is concerned is really none of their business, something school people on all levels seem to have a hard time understanding. Coaches can ask their runners to eschew off-season competition, but that's about all they can do, legally. The takj oif bringing the PIAA into this case is sheer nonsense; a civil cour (while unfortunate) would be another matter. I did not like that part of the story which seemed to say that the school was worried about have an ineligible runner on their team after her transfer last year. When are these people going to realize that it is, oince again, none of their business where a student attends school--the US Supreme Court long ago made it clear that this is a parental choice. The athletic advantage rule, if it ever got that far, would last about five minutes. It is not only unconstituional, it is revolting. As a judge said to the PIAA in another Pennsylvania matter several years ago, in effect: Prove to me that the school recruited the athlete and I'll listen to you; otherwise, shut up. Just because high school associations lack the funds to establish an athletic FBI of the type the NCAA has does not give them any license to pass rules that deny students their right---yes, my dear folks, it is a right, not a privilege---to try to make their school's athletic teams. The usual penalty for missing a practice or two is suspension from the next competition and a requirement of daily attendance if the suspension is to be lifted. Practices in individual sports held before the day school stars should be voluntary anyway, particularly if they clash with family vacation times. (Team sports are another matter, but cross-country is not essentially a team sport; the absence of one runner does not affect the training progress of her teammates the way an absent football player might) I can't recall a case of this kind in my long time observing sports in NJ. The only thing CC coaches worry about is whether their charges do some summer running and report if fairly good condition. Obviously, this girl did that. Ed Grant . __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Pole Vault Rules Changes
About 9 years ago, while serving as an assistant coach at a local state university, I contacted every college and university in the state that sponsored track and field and addressed this same issue. I suggested that each school should take the opportunity to establish some sort of coaching education program for the pole vault. This could have been done through a continuing education program or through the local public schools' intermediate units (regional school systems which service schools in a region with in-servicing, services, etc.) No one took any sort of action like this. In November of 2001, I began working with the AD at the college where I coach to gain permission to hold a local coaching the pole vault symposium for coaches that would include current instruction in the vault at the lowest cost possible to them. For a fee of $20, they could attend a 4 hour clinic where a multitude of topics on coaching the pole vault would be covered, including demonstration of drills. Multiple venues of ads were used over a five county area, covering about 60 school systems, and only 20 high school/middle school coaches attended this clinic. At the Keystone State Games in Pennsylvania, a plug for educating coaches in the pole vault was placed in the track and field program, however, there has been not one inquiry regarding this program. Before the Big Ten officials or anyone else takes credit for this new idea, rest assured that things like this have been offered in this state at various colleges and schools. Now the problem is how to get the high school coaches to go to them. It seems like, to paraphrase an old saying, you can provide the water, but you can't make them even go to the watering hole. And before anyone says anything, I am in complete agreement with John Rhodes statement... teach the coaches how to coach, pad the surfaces correctly and then let them coach. That will go far in lowering the rate of injuries. Trey Jackson Assistant Coach - Track and Field Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA Competition Director - Track and Field Keystone State Games John Rhodes wrote: Of all the suggested changes I like the coaching clinics and providing the coaches an area to coach from the best. You need to teach coaches about safety and then allow them to coach during the event. Rules about pole size and pole grip are no good at all because every athlete is different plus for each athlete there is a correct pole and grip for that day. Pad up all the hard surfaces and let coaches coach and you will eliminate nearly all the bad injuries. John
Re: t-and-f: Todd Christensen wins national masters decathlon title
I was the Lynx timer at the meet. All of the scores were age graded. There was no straight table scores kept. All one can do is to take the results and score them on the current tables. Complete results will be on www.decamouse.com in a few days. Trey Jackson Lebanon, PA Reuben Frank wrote: It's not crap, Mike. It's the only score I have. Results haven't been posted anywhere. I got them from a friend who competed. Thought it was interesting. Have a lovely freaking day. --- Mike Trujillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Former Raiders tight end Todd Christensen, a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, won the 45-49 division of the masters decathlon championships over the weekend at The College of New Jersey in Lawrenceville with an age-graded 7006). Oh, please. What crap is this? An age-graded score? Give us his real score or don't give us anything at all. = This content in no way reflects the opinions, standards, or policy of the United States Air Force Academy or the United States government. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
t-and-f: WAVA Specs
I am in need of the specifications of the weights for the shot, discus, javelin, and hammer for masters athletes (50-99). I am also in need of the hurdle specs (heights and distances) for masters as well. If anyone has that info or knows where I can find it, please let me know as soon as possible. Thanks Trey Jackson Competition Director - Track and Field Keystone State Games Keystone Senior Games
t-and-f: Pole Vault Tragedy
It would be totally appropriate to say that many of the members of this list are truly shocked and saddened by the untimely passing of the Penn State pole vault athlete at the Big Ten meet on Saturday. Penn State's loss of this fine young man is truly a loss for all of us involved in the sport. I am sure that no amount of words can fill the void that is now found in Penn State's community. Our thoughts and prayers should go out to Penn State and the young man's family. However, before the finger of cause is pointed in this situation, it is important to step back a moment and give time for all of use to grieve. Only once this process is over should we as coaches look for ways to prevent tragedies like this from happening again. It is my opinion that while accidents like this may not be totally preventable, there are many other near fatal and not as serious accidents in the event to warrant a serious look at the reasons. As a collegiate coach for almost twenty years, I have seen high school vaulters with such a huge range of knowledge and experience that one has to wonder what, if any coaching, many are receiving at the scholastic level. Just like driver's education does not guarantee good drivers, coaching education does not guarantee good coaches. However, any educational opportunity for coaches is better than none at all. One can only hope and pray that knowledgeable coaches can properly instruct and coach young athletes. Perhaps it is now time to look at this tragedy as an opportunity to increase educational programs for local scholastic coaches and not just implement rules. The USATF Coaching Education program must be expanded and more opportunities must be made to offer this program to as many coaches as possible, as soon as possible. Knowledgeable collegiate and scholastic coaches should provide opportunities for local coaches to increase their base of knowledge. Sports' organizations and associations should provide and require coaches to be trained. Just as our communities would not stand for unqualified basketball or football coaches, we as coaches, parents, taxpayers, and lovers of the sport of track and field should not tolerate unqualified coaches working with our scholastic athletes. (Getting qualified coaches at the scholastic level is another independent topic.) For every door that closes, one opens; for every tragedy that occurs, opportunities are created. Let us as coaches grieve in this tragedy, and then strive to create opportunities for all coaches. Let us as a body of coaches unite to support the athletes and coaches at Penn State in this time of need. Let us stop wasting time with trivial discussions about things that tear the sport apart and find things that strengthen our sport. Trey Jackson
Re: t-and-f: Re: Penn State Tragedy
The origin this series of posts was not not bash high school coaches or coaching. My intention is to acknowledge that no matter how much we try, things still happen. My contention is that there needs to be a general raising of the standard for those getting into coaching. Yes, there are great high school coaches still working with athletes, but can't there be a stronger emphasis on providing those at the grass roots level educational opportunities to improve their skills or give them the basic skills to coach. Certainly, equipment and coaching has improved. Yes, the young man at Penn State was an accomplished athlete who had quality coaching. Accidents do happen and coaching or the lack of it is not always to blame. The basic fact remains: Coaching needs to be improved at all levels. Trey Jackson
Re: t-and-f: Re: Penn State Tragedy
As a public school teacher who has lost my job due to financial woes of a school system, who has had to teach Phys. Ed. with little equipment, and who had had to deal with the politics of hiring, and all of the other issues that plague our schools, I am the first in line to praise what my fellow teachers have to deal with in our public and private school systems. I am not ridiculing those systems that cannot afford to put the emphasis on quality coaches. Don't tell me that reading and math is not more important than sports. In the school where I teach, the A.D. had been asked to cut $80,000 from his athletic budget. I would rather have more science equipment than new hurdles. As a tax payer, I have no problem with that. Pushing for improving the quality of coaching at our scholastic levels is not going to put the programs in danger. Knowing that a school is more likely to hire a big name basketball or football coach than a track coach is not rocket science. However, why not ask for improvement in the training of our existing coaches? Why not ask that if a coach is going to work with a program, if they are not qualified, then provide a vehicle for improving skills? There are many ways to get quality coaches without sacrificing quality educational program and other benefit programs for teachers. If this unfortunate tragedy involved an athlete in one of the revenue sports in our schools, one knows that there would be endless discussion in the media on how to make things safer, on how to improve coaching, and on how to better prepare the youngsters who play the sport. I will say for the last time that bashing schools and quality of coaches was never the point of this series of posts. There are many challanges that I and many of the members have had to deal with in coaching and teaching. One of the best things that we all can do is to continue to ask that we be allowed to improve our skills, increase our base of knowledge, and strive to see that we can provide the best possible coaching that our schools and communities can afford. When our schools can send a whole football or basketball coaching staff for a coaching clinic several states away, why shouldn't we ask that track coaches be allowed to go to clinics, schools, or programs? I don't think that schools are going to drop programs just because a coach asks for opportunities to improve his or her skills. Trey Jackson
Re: t-and-f: Some advice for the fall trail-runners . . .
Some advice for Pennsylvania trail runners. and others in the east where hunting season is beginning. While we don't have grizzly bears to eat runners, we do have a lot of hunters in the woods. Deer season is now upon us and common sense should be the rule of the day. When running in Penn's woods, wear a blaze orange vest and/or hat. Runners with brown shirts and white gloves look very much like deer. While hunters are supposed to carefully identify before shooting, there is no reason for runners to be playing chicken with someone with a loaded rifle. More appropriately, limit trail running to parks and areas where hunting is not allowed. There are plenty of state, county, and municipal parks that do not allow hunting at anytime. If one insists on going in to the woods or along some of the newly built rail trails, limit your runs to Sundays. Hunting is not allowed on Sunday in Pennsylvania. Remember that State Game Lands were designed for and purchased for hunters and hunting. While I encourage multiple usage for such lands, it is prudent to leave the land for it's intended use during hunting season. While I hunt (this forum is not a place to debate this, folks), I also run, bike, and appreciate the hunter's right to use the Game Lands for it's purpose. It is foolish for tragedies to occur because of pride, vanity, or just plain ole stubbornness. Trey Jackson Assistant Track and Field Coach Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA Paul V. Tucknott wrote: Some advice for the fall trail-runners . . . With the fall hiking season approaching, the Montana State Department of Fish and Wildlife is advising hikers, hunters, fisherman and golfers to take extra precautions and to be on the alert for bears while in the Gallatin, Helena and Lewis and Clark National Forests. They advise people to wear noise-producing devices such as little bells on their clothing to alert, but not startle, the bears unexpectedly. They also advise carrying pepper spray in case of an encounter with a bear. It is also a good idea to watch for signs of bear activity. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear droppings. Black bear droppings are smaller and contain berries and possibly squirrel fur. Grizzly bear droppings have bells in them and smell like pepper spray.
t-and-f: Herm Goftberg (sp?)passing
It was reported today on the local NPR radio that long time volunteer assistant at Penn State University and a member of the 1948 Olympic team, Herm Goftberg (sp) passed away on Friday. He had been under medical care for the past 10 or years or so for cancer. Herm was also a supporter of the later Barney Ewell, another '48 team member in London, and had befriended Barney towards the end of Barney's life. Herm had lived in England for many years and moved back to State College, where he participated in local road races and helped with the local youth club. Trey Jackson Assistant Coach - Track and Field Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA
t-and-f: Womens' Decathlon
Listers, I am the state competition director for the Keystone State Games in Pennsylvania. I run a meet offering with almost 200 events for ages 13 and up. Over the past 7 years, I have held a decathlon and heptathlon for ages 15 and up. I have received an e-mail asking about a decathlon for girls. As a collegiate coach, and having coached multi-events for many years, I recognize the fact that the hept. can be rather light for some women. Therefore, I have two questions for the list. 1. Has anyone ever seen a decathlon and/or a scoring table for girls? 2. What are the thoughts about the decathlon for girls and women? Thanks for your help. Trey Jackson Assistant Coach - Track and Field Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA Competition Director - Track and Field Keystone State Games, Pennsylvania
t-and-f: TV Track Coverage?
If today's broadcast of the Palo Alto meet is any indication of the quality of the Edmonton Worlds, we are all better off watching reruns of old sitcoms on Nickolodian TV. In the past 20 minutes of coverage, there has been exactly 43 seconds of track action. The rest has been comercials and banter from the commentators about up coming meets. Oh well, network TV. Love it or leave it, it is the best (sorry to say) that the U.S. can offer.
t-and-f: Arrogant officials and decisions...
While there are certainly arrogant officials, let us not forget that the pool of officials is becoming older. With all due respect to those veterans officials, there are certainly some of them who should retire. However, to get competent officials for high school or college meets is getting harder and harder each year. Finding qualified officials who know both college and high school rules is not easy, then to ask them to stay out in all kinds of weather all day for a bag lunch, a hat, and perhaps a small stipend is not my idea of a good time. Granted that there is a power struggle between the high school federation and USATF, some officials see themselves as only working if they can be in charge or in a high position, the fact that there are too many sets of rules in effect in the various states, and that the average age of those willing to volunteer is getting older, the key questions is what is to be done. Certainly, officials should be there for the student-athlete and not to pad their own resume or stroke their egos. However, noting that, solutions must be found, developed, and implemented before the changes that some many of those posted can be made. What is going to need to take place for this situation to improve is not going to be easy or even possible for some. 1. A standardization of rules in this country, with the differences found in the particulars of the age divisions, not in the base rules of competition. 2. Appropriate training for officials, not just meeting to look at old films or discuss how things used to be. 3. A cooperative agreement with USATF and the National High School Federation and a compelling of the member state associations to follow the standard rules. 4. Appropriate and adequate compensation for officials. While we all would like to have them work for free, it's not going to happen too much now. I am sure that many of the members of the list could find other things to add to this list. However, just discussing the matter is not going to make this situation change. Until it does, the sport is going to have to deal with officials on ego trips, officials not knowing the appropriate rules, officials refusing to work meets unless they can be in charge or in a highly visible position (or not doing the dirty work), and officials getting selected for meets based on who they know, not what they are willing and qualified to do. Any takers on helping to try to solve this dilemma? Trey Jackson Assistant Coach - Track and Field Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA
t-and-f: Webb
With all of this talk about Webb, let's not forget several things. 1.He didn't pick his high school coach. What diference does it make if the coach did or didn't run at a big college or ran fast or not.? The important thing is that Webb believes in him. Being an arm chair coach is easy to do. Let's drop this talk about his coach and/or his methods or motives. 2. Where Webb chooses to go to college is his business, not anyone on this list or any magazine writer in the country. So let this issue drop. I am sure that he has already put a lot of thought into what he wants to do, so let him do it in peace. 3. What Webb runs at the Virginia State High School meet or at the USATF meet or any other meet is his business. Don't second guess what he should or might do. If this list is for news and results, then let it be for that. If individuals feel compled to discuss the above mentioned items, then do if off list with those who want to partake in this venture. And by the way, I don't have any vested interest in what Webb does, even if I am a native Virginian.
Re: t-and-f: U.S. TV Reminder/Pre
While this might not totally fit the concept of the U. Oregon list of international meets, it is a milestone in regards to coverage of track and field in the United States. Perhaps other states and collegiate conferences could take a look at what happened in Pennsylvania. As usual, there was no coverage of the Pre meet in my area. However, for those who constantly complain of the poor coverage of track and field on the television, here's some news to chew on. On Saturday from 9:00am to 3:00pm and rebroadcast last night and to be rebroadcast on Monday evening, the Pennsylvania Cable Network (PA's version of C-SPAN) covered the Pennsylvania state high school championships from start to finish. Every race in the finals and most all of the field events were shown from starting gun to finish. There were four (count them--four) races of the 2 mile (sorry - 3200m) and the finals of every race in each of the two classes. The only difficulty was the sight lines due the the mass of tents for the officials in the infield. Never the less, this was a great start for televising a sport that usually doesn't get much media attention. I realize that this was state subsidized television, however, the commercial networks could have taken a lesson on how to broadcast track and field. All of the announcers were knowledgeable in track (one was a former coach), there was no sticking a microphone in the face after a race commentary, and finally, there was no up close and personal sound bits. Granted, this was commercial free and perhaps 6 hours of track and field might be too much for some, and definitely too much for commercial TV, but there is always a VCR and fast forward buttons.
Re: t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
Excuse me, but what percentage of the time when a gun is fired at Penn is there even the theoretical possibility of an NCAA qualifying mark being recorded? While I cannot answer to Division I (and I know that a lot of the list members believe that DI is the only real track and field division out there), I know that the staff at Penn (and I am pretty sure that at Drake and Mt. SAC) spend a lot of time signing POP forms for Division II and III athletes. Perhaps Dave Johnson can give some approximate numbers. And by the way, before all of those track gurus chime in a attest of the "quality of DI racing", I can say that I have witnessed many more and just as competitive and exciting 3:25 4X400's than 3:00 4X400. As to the regional concept, I know that administrators, for years, have wanted more head to head competition, especially when they authorize millions of dollars for facilities on their campus. How can facilities be justified when a school has only one or two meets a year at home? The other question that comes to mind is what is wrong with head to head competition. I certainly don't think that all of those thousands that used to sit in the stands in the 50' and 60's to watch USC and UCLA duals really cared about whether someone qualified for the NCAA meet. They were more interested to see the athlete in their favorite uniform beat the one in the other school's uniform. I think that some of the biggest complainers of the regionalization of track are those who have either had to run a lot of meets at home are compelled to do so. Having a home meet is a real pain when one figures that the home coaches have to do most of the grunt work. Regionalization is going to mean that more dua/tri/quad meets might have to be run and since there will be another meet(s) in the schedule, then more expense will have to be incurred. I am not sure where the idea for regionalization is coming from: the Presidents, the A.D.'s, the media, USATF, or the coaches. I do know one thing, we as coaches have, at times, done more to hurt ourselves as a profession and the sport in general. We have done more coaching an athlete how to reach a mark than we have in coaching an athlete on how to hate to loose a competition Perhaps regionalization will help bring back that head to head competition of the "person in the blue uniform beating the person in the red" in order to get to the next level. Only time will tell, not 500 posting on all of the negative aspects of regionalization. A wise old sage said once, "Be careful of what you ask for, you may get it." Trey Jackson Assistant Coach - Track and Field Lebanon Valley College Annville, PA
