RE: t-and-f: Junior qualifying
Title: Message The same folks who brought you the 1600 nd 3200. Need we say more? malmo -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ed & Dana ParrotSent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 3:33 PMTo: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail)Subject: Re: t-and-f: Junior qualifying It may sound asinine, but it is completely accurate in my experience. And I don't consider it an insult. Most (say, 80%) high school coaches are solely focused on the 2 or 3 high school seasons. They don't want their kids racing out of season, so they very reasonably don't bother to learn about what else is out there. Many high school coaches have more background in other sports than track, which simply adds to it. We are NOT talking about people who coach sub-4:10 milers or sub 10.4 sprinters here. We are talking about the masses of coaches who work with the vast majority of the youth numbers that everyone cites as a sign of our sport's health. Most of them never have a kid break 4:30 or 11.5 and are more concerned with having someone in every event and manging their team with limited resources than with worrying about opportunities outside high school. When I was coaching ten years ago, certainly less than half of the 50+ coaches in my district knew the name of any organization that sponsored the junior olympics, except for some vague knowledge of the pre-Amatuer Sports Act AAU. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Junior qualifying In a message dated 7/19/01 9:07:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: my experience that most high school coaches are oblivious to anything that occurs outside the high school framework or even outside their own conference. I wonder if half of them even know there is such an organization as USATF, let alone know that USATF is responsible for selecting international youth teams. In addition, most seem to have no knowledge of or interest in the sport at the national or international level This is the MOST asinine statement ever made on this LISTSERV. And that's saying a mouthful, to anyone who's been on it for longer than a month. Do you really think high school coaches are just a bunch of dumb-***ed know-nothingings just fumbling though the season? Open up Jack Shepard's HS Annual and look at what HS coaches are doing with the talent in the USA. I used to think you had something to contribute to this list. If this is the depth of your insight in what's happening in our sport I guess you're other instant delete candidate. Please reread your written thoughts before hitting Send Now. Save everyone from wallowing in the shallow end of the pool. Andy Ferrara HS Track Team Power Ratings www.hstrack.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eisenhower HS Houston, TX
RE: t-and-f: exotic dancer back with cross-country team
Watchit, Mister. The U of O finds the subject matter offensive! Better stick with Robert Mapplethorpe self-portraits. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Post, Marty > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:56 AM > To: 't-and-f@darkwing. uoregon. edu' (E-mail) > Subject: t-and-f: exotic dancer back with cross-country team > > > Leilani Rios, the part-time exotic dancer kicked off the Cal > State-Fullerton cross-country team, has been invited back to > practice with the team. Rios will also appear nude in the > October issue of "Playboy" Magazine. More in the Orange > County Register: > www.ocregister.com/sitearchives/2001/7/31/sports/rios00731cci.shtml Marty Post Senior Editor Runner's World Magazine www.runnersworld.com
t-and-f: Marion Jones 10.38 Holy Sh!T
If you don't want track results then go to the damn needlepoint web sites. Emily Post > > I would remind everyone of the usual list etiquette for big > championships: > > Please do not put information in the subject line of posts > that gives away > results. Putting something like "Marion Jones 10.38 - New > WR!!!" in the > subject line kind of takes away the thrill from those of us > forced to watch > tape delayed TV coverage a day or so later. Just put something like > "Results - Women's 100M" in the subject line and save the big > news for the > text of the post. > > Thanks. > > Kurt Bray > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
t-and-f: Sez who?
> > On the other hand... if you don't want to follow the > etiquette of the list then sign off the list. Nowhere in the list charter: PURPOSE & CHARTER OF THE LIST Discussions on most topics related to track and field and its associated sports are acceptable. Associated sports are defined to be cross country, road racing, marathoning and ultra-marathoning, and race walking. Basically, if the sport falls under the jurisdiction of the IAAF, USATF, or other national athletics governing bodies, it is an appropriate topic for discussion. The list originated mainly as a means of sharing results, information, insights, and opinions about elite level track and field and its associated sports. This list brings together subscribers from all over the world and can be used to generate interest in, knowledge about, and support for the sport of athletics. We now support well approx. 2,000 subscribers, and growing. Remember, this list is NOT the same as Rec.Running on USENET NetNews or the Dead Runner's Society. Most of the subscribers here have a serious interest in track and field and how to improve the sport overall. While there is a certain amount of latitude to the content of the posts, some material is unacceptable. HOW TO POST A MESSAGE Every message that is sent to the address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]or [EMAIL PROTECTED] will be passed on to every subscriber of the list. GUIDELINES FOR POSTING These guidelines are intended to facilitate better communication on this list. The list is NOT moderated! This means that the list manager, in general, does not determine whether or not messages are suitable for posting. The listserver automatically posts messages without the list manager previewing them. However, all subscribers are expected to follow the guidelines below. We reserve the right to remove any subscriber who fails to adhere to these guidelines in the interpretation of the current list manager. Remember, use of this listserver is a PRIVILEGE, _not_ a RIGHT. We are all guests of the University Listserver at Oregon. As with all guests, you may be asked to leave if you wear out your welcome. 1). Personal attacks, trash talking, and excessive use of profanity will not be tolerated. Both the subject matter of the posting and the subject header must be in good taste and appropriate, in the opinion of the list manager. Individuals making personal attacks will have their subscription automatically suspended and will not be readmitted unless they issue a retraction of their offending statement. 2). Messages intended for one person on the list should be sent to that person through direct Email. Do NOT post these messages to the entire list. Due to differences in Email software, the reply function does not always address a message to the original sender, but often to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For this reason, always include your name and Email address in the body of your message so that others may reply to you directly. 3). Posts should add something substantial to the ongoing discussion. For example, appending an "I agree" to a previous post, providing redundant information, or simply reiterating previous arguments without adding anything new tend to clog up the list and are discouraged. 4). Damaging accusations, speculations, and misinformation presented as factual are prohibited. Example, "Joe Runner's rapid improvement means he has taken banned drugs," is not acceptable. Accusations and speculations must be presented as personal beliefs or opinions, such as "It is my opinion that" Violators of this guideline will have their subscription suspended, and must provide a retraction before they may rejoin the list. 5). Individual questions about track and field are appropriate for this list. For example, "Why do some runners hurdle steeple barriers but others step on them?" or "Does anyone know any roadraces in Boston this weekend?" However, the answers to these questions should be sent DIRECLTY to the person asking the question. The original poster can then summarize all the responses and post one message to the list. 6). No requests for meet results are allowed until Monday, 5:00 pm Pacific Standard Time following the meet. This is intended as a courtesy to the volunteers who provide these results, as well limiting the number of superfluous requests. 7). The responsibility of the posting content lies entirely with the poster. 8). Postings for commercial purposes are limited on the list. Information on T&F literature, films, websites, and periodicals, may be acceptable - please contact the current supervisor before making any postings of this sort to discuss specific guidelines. Information or postings on athletics merchandise - shoes, clothing, apparatus, track surfaces, software, etc. are
RE: t-and-f: Sez who?
It is so simple to comply with MY request that bristling at it is moronic and contrary for the sake of being contrary. > > > It has been an unwritten rule for at least the last 5 years. > I never said it was in the charter. It is a matter of > courtesy and etiquette that MANY list members have requested > over the years. It is so simple to comply with their request > that bristling at it is moronic and contrary for the sake of > being contrary. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of malmo > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:26 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Kurt Bray'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Sez who? > > > > > > > > On the other hand... if you don't want to follow the > etiquette of the > > list then sign off the list. > > > > Nowhere in the list charter: > > PURPOSE & CHARTER OF THE LIST > > Discussions on most topics related to track and field and its > associated > > sports are acceptable. Associated sports are defined to be > cross country, road racing, marathoning and > ultra-marathoning, and race walking. Basically, if the sport > falls under the jurisdiction of the IAAF, USATF, or other > national athletics governing bodies, it is an appropriate > topic for discussion. > > The list originated mainly as a means of sharing results, > information, insights, and opinions about elite level track > and field and its associated sports. This list brings > together subscribers from all over > > the world and can be used to generate interest in, knowledge > about, and > > support for the sport of athletics. We now support well > approx. 2,000 subscribers, and growing. > > Remember, this list is NOT the same as Rec.Running on USENET > NetNews or > > the Dead Runner's Society. Most of the subscribers here have > a serious > > interest in track and field and how to improve the sport > overall. While > > there is a certain amount of latitude to the content of the > posts, some > > material is unacceptable. > > HOW TO POST A MESSAGE > > Every message that is sent to the address: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]or > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > will be passed on to every subscriber of the list. > > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING > > These guidelines are intended to facilitate better > communication on this list. The list is NOT moderated! This > means that the list manager, in general, does not determine > whether or not messages are suitable for posting. The > listserver automatically posts messages without the list > manager previewing them. However, all subscribers are > expected to follow the guidelines below. We reserve the > right to remove any subscriber who fails to adhere to these > guidelines in the interpretation of the current list manager. > > Remember, use of this listserver is a PRIVILEGE, _not_ a > RIGHT. We are all guests of the University Listserver at > Oregon. As with all guests, you may be asked to leave if you > wear out your welcome. > > > 1). Personal attacks, trash talking, and excessive use of profanity > will not be tolerated. Both the subject matter of the posting and > the subject header must be in good taste and appropriate, in > the opinion of the list manager. Individuals making personal > attacks will have their subscription automatically suspended > and will not be readmitted unless they issue a retraction of > their offending statement. > > 2). Messages intended for one person on the list should be > sent to that > person through direct Email. Do NOT post these messages to the > entire list. > > Due to differences in Email software, the reply function does not > always address a message to the original sender, but often to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] For this reason, always > include your name > and Email address in the body of your message so that others may > reply to you directly. > > 3). Posts should add something substantial to the ongoing > discussion. For example, appending an "I agree" to a > previous post, > > providing redundant information, or simply reiterating previous > arguments without adding anything new tend to clog up the list and > are discouraged. > > 4). Damaging accusations, speculations, and misinformation presented > as factual are prohibited. Example, "Joe Runner's rapid > improvement > > means he has taken banned drugs," is not acceptable. Accusations > and speculations must be presented as per
RE: t-and-f: Sez who?
The way I see it, there are two kinds of people. Those who set their alarm clocks ahead five minutes, so that when it goes off in the morning they can hit the snooze button for five extra minutes of sleep, and those who synchronize their clocks to the correct time. I set my clock to the correct time. malmo
Re: t-and-f: Suzy...Regina and Gnocchi
Yeah, Dese lame excuses is getting old by know. "I'll be ready for Zurich". Yeah right, me too. So why drag da good Sicilian boy Gnocchi into it? He said he got blisters, he showed em. He got blisters. Wadda ya want? So what if he can get ten times more money for runnin another marathon wid good conditions? Didju guys give a damn bout his blisters when da Gnocchi kid wuz washin your dirty dishes for you? I didn't tink so. You tell da Gnocchi kid ta call me, all we want outta it is a little tribute for da bosses. Guido and Leroy, da much maligned and misunderstood Management, Inc. >The girl that fell in front of her got up and made the finals too. The >comment of "saving myself for Zurich" may have been the worst statement I >have ever heard. If she didn't go to Worlds to give it her best, she should >have given up her spot for someone else. > >Mike > > >>From: "Gore, Stephanie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: "Gore, Stephanie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Subject: t-and-f: Suzy... >>Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:33:17 -0400 >> >>Is no one going to comment on this? After our highest hope in the marathon >>drops out with blisters..our 2 hopes for the 1500, Hamilton and Jacobs both >>drop out, the latter claiming she is saving herself for Zurich?? It seems >>the race was a rough one and having someone falling in front of you can be >>quite the distraction..but why drop out? >> >>Too bad, I was hoping for an exciting 1500 final that included americans! >> >> > > >_ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >
t-and-f: No "I" in team?
OK...there's a "me" in "team" and there's an "I" "win". malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Gerald Woodward > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 4:42 PM > To: Michael Contopoulos; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Suzy... > > > Bravo Mike! I'm with you! There is no "I" in TEAM! > People who want to know what is wrong with T&F in the U.S. > need look no further. Athletes putting themselves above the > team, not showing up to meets when they have agreed to > appear, taunting of fellow athletes, and stupid post race > antics like the 4x100 relay at the Sydney Olympics all > contribute to the malaise! > > Gerald Woodward > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Michael > Contopoulos > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:50 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Suzy... > > > The girl that fell in front of her got up and made the finals > too. The comment of "saving myself for Zurich" may have been > the worst statement I have ever heard. If she didn't go to > Worlds to give it her best, she should have given up her spot > for someone else. > > Mike > > > >From: "Gore, Stephanie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "Gore, Stephanie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: t-and-f: Suzy... > >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:33:17 -0400 > > > >Is no one going to comment on this? After our highest hope in the > >marathon drops out with blisters..our 2 hopes for the 1500, Hamilton > >and Jacobs both drop out, the latter claiming she is saving > herself for > >Zurich?? It seems the race was a rough one and having > someone falling > >in front of you can be quite the distraction..but why drop out? > > > >Too bad, I was hoping for an exciting 1500 final that included > >americans! > > > > > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
RE: t-and-f: field event rule change
Dumb and untrue. Learn the sport before you speak. malmo > > P.S.- looking at the TV, looks like Paula Radcliffe > trains at the Craig Virgin School of Distance Running > for Non-Kickers. > > RT >
t-and-f: Track and Field News Archives
Alright, what the hell is going on? Where are all of your archives? malmo
RE: t-and-f: 3:14 and Mark Nenow
ESPN does have a statistician...Carol Lewis. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael > Contopoulos > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 9:41 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: 3:14 and Mark Nenow > > > Did anyone else notice that last night on ESPN2 they listed > Broe's PR to be > 3:14 and still had Mark Nenow as the AR holder in the 10k? > Don't they have > statisticians over there? In all, though, I would have to > say I was pleased > with the coverage. They showed most of the steeple and at > least 1/2 of the > 10k. Not too bad. > > M > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
RE: t-and-f: The End of the British Rule in Running
I guessed that because the sprints aren't complying with Entine's bigoted views he'd focus on the 1500. Nothing new, the same tired, old sh!t. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jon Entine > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 2:46 PM > To: Track and Field List > Subject: t-and-f: The End of the British Rule in Running > > > Thought this would provoke the usual outrage. If anyone wants > to print this unpublished article, or reproduce it on a > website, please send me a note. I will be most obliging. > > ** > > 9 August 2001 > > The End of the British Empire: Why a Brit (Black or White) > Will Never Again Hold a Distance Running Record > > By Jon Entine > > When the gun goes off for the men¹s 1500 metre final at > Sunday¹s World Championships in Edmonton, it might just as > well signal the end of an era. The age of great British > middle distance runners is gone forever. Once the world¹s > dominant power, with a bloodline of Sebastian Coe, Steve > Ovett, Steve Cram, and Peter Elliott that regularly left > competitors in the dust, the British hopefuls are today mere > also-rans in a field dominated by North and East Africans. > > The collapse of the once mighty British Empire is actually > part of a more sweeping trend. Where Brits, Aussies and > others of Northern European stock used to dominate distance > running, former greats such as Steve Cram and Sebastian Coe > now indulge in British bashing. ³So where is the problem?² > wrote Coe last week in the Telegraph. . ³The answer, I rather > fancy, as Shakespeare said, lies not in the stars but in our > hands¹ run faster.² Coe went on to exhort aspiring Brits to > train with the ³brutal² commitment of days gone by ³the > mental and physical intensity of what was commonplace 20 > years ago,² he added modestly. > > Here¹s a wake-up call: you might as well look to the stars, > because distance runners from Britain, northern Europe or > North America, white or black, will never reclaim the mantle > as world's best. And cultural factors have little do with > this changing phenomenon. > > The world rankings, which combine race results from the 800 > metres to the marathon, paint a stark picture. Africans, > eight from Kenya, hold the top 10 places. Among the women, > the top 3 and 7-out-of-10 are Kenyan. However, because of > social taboos against women runners in Africa, non-Africans > remain somewhat more competitive. > > If you ask self-proclaimed experts what¹s behind this > extraordinary phenomenon, be prepared for the usual cliché: > the current crop of British athletes is too soft. If they > just tried harder, they¹d challenge for gold. Certainly, > Coe¹s 1981 800-metre run in Stockholm ranks as one of the > great all-time performances. But a look at the all time list > of 800 metre runs makes it clear that Britain¹s reign as > middle distance champion (and prior periods of domination by > the Finns and other Northern Europeans) speaks mostly to the > fact that for the most part Africans didn¹t compete. While > nationalistic chest pounding may help deal with frustration > of fading glory, it can¹t change the hard reality that > Britain¹s middle distance running glory is gone for good, > whatever training methods might be adopted. Now that the > playing field is more levelrunning is a worldwide sport, > drawing competitors from Africa, Asia and South > AmericaNorthern Europeans are decidedly second-class. > > Consider the list of all time top 800 meter runs and runners. > While Coe¹s best time ranks third on the all time list, > Elliott¹s stands at 45, Cram¹s at 67, and Ovett¹s at 341. On > a regular basis, none could expect to challenge the current > world record holder, Kenyan Wilson Kipketer, who has 28 times > in the top 100. Other Kenyan runners bring the total in the > top 100 to fifty. Overall, athletes of African ancestry hold > 92 of the top 100 times, with Northern Europeans holding but eight. > > What about Coe¹s whine that British runners could transform > themselves from joggers into champions if only they paid they > mimicked the Kenyans. As the myth goes, Kenyans are great > because they ran to school as kids and torture themselves in > practice. That brings belly laughs from Wilson Kipketer, who > destroyed Coe¹s long-held 800-metre record in 1997. "I lived > right next door to school," he laughs. "I walked, nice and slow." > > The reality is that for every Kenyan monster-miler putting in > 100-mile weeks, there are others, like Kipketer, who get > along on less than t
RE: t-and-f: The End of the British Rule in Running
GRRR! > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jon Entine > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 4:06 PM > To: malmo; Track and Field List > Subject: Re: t-and-f: The End of the British Rule in Running > > > Malmo: > > You are an angry person... > > Except the sprint results certainly do reflect, without > question, the underlying bio-genetic reality. Absolutely and > unequivocally. > > How you can turn science into bigotry is an issue you'll have > to deal with in the confessional both. > > > On 8/9/01 12:43 PM, "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I guessed that because the sprints aren't complying with Entine's > > bigoted views he'd focus on the 1500. > > > > Nothing new, the same tired, old sh!t. > > > > malmo > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jon Entine > >> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 2:46 PM > >> To: Track and Field List > >> Subject: t-and-f: The End of the British Rule in Running > >> > >> > >> Thought this would provoke the usual outrage. If anyone wants to > >> print this unpublished article, or reproduce it on a > website, please > >> send me a note. I will be most obliging. > >> > >> ** > >> > >> 9 August 2001 > >> > >> The End of the British Empire: Why a Brit (Black or White) > Will Never > >> Again Hold a Distance Running Record > >> > >> By Jon Entine > >> > >> When the gun goes off for the mens 1500 metre final at Sundays > >> World Championships in Edmonton, it might just as well > signal the end > >> of an era. The age of great British middle distance > runners is gone > >> forever. Once the worlds dominant power, with a bloodline of > >> Sebastian Coe, Steve Ovett, Steve Cram, and Peter Elliott that > >> regularly left competitors in the dust, the British hopefuls are > >> today mere also-rans in a field dominated by North and > East Africans. > >> > >> The collapse of the once mighty British Empire is actually > part of a > >> more sweeping trend. Where Brits, Aussies and others of Northern > >> European stock used to dominate distance running, former > greats such > >> as Steve Cram and Sebastian Coe now indulge in British > bashing. ½So > >> where is the problem? wrote Coe last week in the > Telegraph. . ½The > >> answer, I rather fancy, as Shakespeare said, lies not in > the stars > >> but in our hands - run faster. Coe went on to exhort > aspiring Brits > >> to train with the ½brutal commitment of days gone by - ½the > >> mental and physical intensity of what was commonplace 20 > >> years ago, he added modestly. > >> > >> Heres a wake-up call: you might as well look to the > stars, because > >> distance runners from Britain, northern Europe or North America, > >> white or black, will never reclaim the mantle as world's best. And > >> cultural factors have little do with this changing phenomenon. > >> > >> The world rankings, which combine race results from the > 800 metres to > >> the marathon, paint a stark picture. Africans, eight from > Kenya, hold > >> the top 10 places. Among the women, the top 3 and 7-out-of-10 are > >> Kenyan. However, because of social taboos against women runners in > >> Africa, non-Africans remain somewhat more competitive. > >> > >> If you ask self-proclaimed experts whats behind this > extraordinary > >> phenomenon, be prepared for the usual cliché: the current crop of > >> British athletes is too soft. If they just tried harder, theyd > >> challenge for gold. Certainly, Coes 1981 800-metre run in > Stockholm > >> ranks as one of the great all-time performances. But a look at the > >> all time list of 800 metre runs makes it clear that > Britains reign > >> as middle distance champion (and prior periods of domination by > >> the Finns and other Northern Europeans) speaks mostly to the > >> fact that for the most part Africans didnt compete. While > >> nationalistic chest pounding may help deal with frustration > >> of fading glory, it cant change the hard reality that > >> Britains middle distance running glory is gone for good, > >> whatever t
RE: t-and-f: The End of the British Rule in Running
Dan, you live in Oregon. There aren't 50 black kids in the entire state! malmo > > Nah, you'll have to do better than that. There's no question > that there is somewhat of a reverse discrimination against > whites when it comes to sprinting, but I very much doubt > there are 10x as many black kids sprinting. From what I've > been associated with, and from watching things like local > state/district meets, I'd say it's at "worst" 50/50, with > probably a majority of white kids participating. (I've lived > in and attended both predominately black and white > neighborhoods/schools.) > > The perception that many more black kids participate is > probably due to what we see at the more elite levels, which > only serves to support Jon's point that you are so vehemently > disagreeing with. I love irony. > > Dan > > = > http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
RE: t-and-f: What Happened to the 200 meters ??
> As one who for many years placed raw numbers ahead of > reality, I'm somewhat > hypocriical in criticizing Conway here, but... as > somebody who saw the > race in person i've got to say that I may never have seen a > greater 200. It > blows MJ's 19.32 out of the water, for instance. "blows MJ's 19.32 out of the water" That's saying a lot. I'm still feeling the electricity after that 19.32. I'm calling it the second-best 200 race ever run (both Kederis as an individual and the field as a whole), and the third best race ever -- nothing comes close to the Montreal 5000. Wonder if Entine could get past skin color and see what the rest of saw -- two legs, lungs, a focused mind, all driven by a huge competitive heart. malmo
RE: t-and-f: What Happened to the 200 meters ??
> > Having said that, I still stick by original statement (which > was made BEFORE then 200 final) with one slight alteration - > that with the exception of Kederis we were left with a group > of sprinters who 18 months ago would have been fighting for > good lane draws in the semis !! In 18 months you'll be saying the same thing...18 months after that, the same. Is there a pattern here? malmo
RE: t-and-f: "Jabe's" exact quote... Are you sure???
But that quote did come from RUNNERS WORLD, hardly a reliable periodical. malmo > > You're right. Here it is again, copied and pasted from > http://www.runnersworld.com/edmonton01/home.ht> ml > What an > idiot. > > Gabe Jennings, Heat 2: "You saw me get > everything out of myself that I had out there. If you knew my > training, you'd laugh. It's been under 20 miles a week. But > it's a thrill to compete on this big stage. This was so much > more encouraging than the Olympics. I was not scared. I > looked El Guerrouj in the eyes, and I was not scared. I own > him. I own all these guys. Give me two years and I'll be > wiping them all up off the track. I have a vision of winning > at Athens in three years, and the vision starts with > conquering all my fears. "It's all about fear. I've been > fighting that at Stanford. I got into academic trouble this > year. I've been fighting fears about my SAT scores and being > at Stanford and being a math major. I mean, I can't count to > 10...well, maybe I can, but square root of two, what do I > know? I've been studying my ass off, but I need more help > with my classes than I do with my races. I've got two finals > when I get back from here. I haven't been getting any sleep." > > __ > _ > Jason BlankHopkins Marine Station > Enloe HS '92, Duke '96, Stanford ?? Oceanview Boulevard > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pacific Grove, CA 93950 > > "He is the Emperor. Ethiopia is a country racked by Aids, > famine and war > and Gebrselassie is their one true success story. He travels the >country, giving out and receiving respect wherever he goes." > -- Jos Hermens, on Haile Gebrselassie, Olympic champion > at 1m > __ > _ > >
RE: FW: t-and-f: Let the USA bashing begin!
That 'altitude' was killing the distance runners wasn't it? 2200' is just a little higher than that high-altitude Mecca called 'Spokane' (1900'). malmo > > In a message dated Tue, 14 Aug 2001 5:33:07 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, "Highfill, Floyd" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Everyone has their opinion on the effect of the temperature but the > > altitude > > (2000') is worth about 1-1/2 minutes (or 3-4 sec per mile). > > The heat couldn't have been worth more than about 5 minutes > overall unless > > you think Abera was capable of running under the WR on a > "good" day. This > > still puts the Americans over 2:20 under the best of > circumstances.> > > Must have been the altitude (which aids the sprints) which > allowed Abera to run the last 300m in 44.7 (a sub-60 pace). > > gh >
RE: t-and-f: "Jabe's" exact quote... Are you sure???
Kurt, clearly you've never been to Eugene, which is living in a time-warp. malmo > > Actually Gabe is a linguistic treasure - he speaks pure unadulterated > Incoherent Hippie circa 1968, a dialect that has not been > heard since its > last native speaker died of a drug overdose about 25 years ago. > > Imagine what it would mean to Classicists and other scholars > of the Latin > language if Cicero himself suddenly appeared in in their > midst. That's what > has now happened to people who study the culture of the > 1960s. Linguists, > historians, and other scholars of that period should be lined > up outside > Gabe's dorm room to record his speech, ask him questions, and > request his > help in translating baffling Hippie quotes from the past. An > opportunity is > being missed here. > > > Kurt Bray > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
RE: t-and-f: Entine's flaws
Cruz mostly African ancestry? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andre Sammartino > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:32 PM > To: P.F.Talbot > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Entine's flaws > > > but the statement that "92 of the top 100 times are held by > those of mostly > African ancestry" is still wrong... it can only be 82... it's > just poor > data collection undermining what are substantive claims... > > for what it's worth my view here is that the discussion is about > probabilities... > > Entine is probably correct in that the probability of a given > East African > being capable of world class middle to long-distance > performances is higher > than a non-East African, and likewise that the probability of a West > African being capable of world class sprint performances is > higher than a > non-West African... but it's only probabilities... the beauty of the > stochastic nature of the process is that there are always > "freaks" who mess > with the numbers... so maybe it becomes an issue of "freak" frequency > (almost went for the pun there)... and then there's hard > work, training, > opportunity, environment, discrimination, resources etc... > > uh-oh, we're back on this train again! > > why do we get sucked in? > > At 10:15 AM 8/15/2001, P.F.Talbot wrote: > >So this looks like only 7 non-Africans have produced times > in the top > >100 all time, right? > > > >I'd put Juantorena on the list though (maybe that was his 8th). > > > > > > > >On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Andre Sammartino wrote: > > > > > Jon, > > > > > > I don't understand where you are getting these numbers > from... each > > > time you reappear on this list to boost book sales you undermine > > > your credentials substanitally by citing WRONG numbers. Where is > > > the 800m evidence you cite? > > > > > > my check of Peter Larsson's top 100 performances all-time > produces > > > this list of non-"africans" > > > > > > 3 1.41,73Sebastian Coe > > > 11 1.42,33Sebastian Coe > > > 18 1.42,58Vebjørn Rodal > > > 39 1.42,88Steve Cram > > > 40 1.42,90André Bucher > > > 42 1.42,92André Bucher > > > 43 1.42,95Vebjørn Rodal > > > 45 1.42,97Peter Elliott > > > 54 1.43,07Sebastian Coe > > > 60 1.43,12André Bucher > > > 64 1.43,17Yuriy Borzakovskiy > > > 67 1.43,19Steve Cram > > > 72 1.43,22Steve Cram > > > 75 1.43,25Vebjørn Rodal > > > 84 1.43,31André Bucher > > > 91 1.43,34André Bucher > > > 98 1.43,38Sebastian Coe > > > 98 1.43,38Rich Kenah > > > http://www.algonet.se/~pela2/mtrack/m_800ok.htm > > > > > > That's 18, not 8! > > > > > > And if you in fact meant all time performers, then the top 100 at > > > Hanserik Pettersson's site includes these lot (i may have > a couple > > > wrong here through not knowing who/"what" they are/were (ugly > > > terminology, but we are playing this game)): > > > > > > 2 1.41.73 Sebastian Coe > > > 5 1.42.58 Vebjörn Rodal > > > 12 1.42.88 Steve Cram > > > 13 1.42.90 André Bucher > > > 14 1.42.97 Peter Elliott > > > 22 1.43.17 Yuriy Borzakovskiy > > > 31 1.43.38 Richard Kenah > > > 37 1.43.56 Rob Druppers > > > 45 1.43.65 Willi Wülbeck > > > 49 1.43.74 Andrea Longo > > > 52 1.43.7h Marcello Fiasconaro > > > 53 1.43.84 Olaf Beyer > > > 54 1.43.84 Martin Steele > > > 55 1.43.86 Ivo Van Damme > > > 57 1.43.88 Donato Sabia > > > 58 1.43.88 Tom McKean > > > 59 1.43.90 Einars Tupuritis > > > 62 1.43.91 Johan Botha > > > 63 1.43.92 John Marshall > > > 65 1.43.92 Andrea Benvenuti > > > 67 1.43.95 Philippe Collard > > > 68 1.43.95 Giuseppe D'Urso > > > 71 1.43.98 David Sharpe > > > 72 1.43.98 Bram Som > > > 73 1.43.9h José Marajo > > > 75 1.44.01 Marko Koers > > > 76 1.44.03 Peter Braun > > > 79 1.44.07 Lucijano Susanj > > > 80 1.44.09 Steve Ovett > > > 81 1.44.10 Vladimir Graudyn > > > 82 1.44.10 Ari Suhonen > > > 84 1.44.14 Lee Jin-il > > > 88 1.44.22 Nils Schumann > > > 92 1.44.25 Vasiliy Matveyev > > > 94 1.44.38 Ryszard Ostrowski > > > 96 1.44.3h+ Peter George Snell > > > 97 1.44.3hy-.6 Jim Ryun > > > 98 1.44.3h Dave Wottle > > > http://w1.196.telia.com/~u19603668/atb-m04.htm > > > > > > That's 38... > > > > > > Please explain your sources... > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:02:57 -0700 > > > From: Jon Entine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > ... > > > I did discuss this numerous times, and most recently in my post a > > > while > > back > > > about "why Brits" will are doing so lousy. The FACT > is...and you can > > > check the lists of top times and top runners..is that you > and others > > > have swallowed a MYTH that there were a lot of runners of "US, UK > > > and Northern European stock" that were setting the world on fire > > > years ago. There were a few great races by a handful of great > > > runners such
t-and-f: lap by lap excitement?
> > Some timer chips in the shoes, and a nifty computer program > should be > > able to keep a real-time leaderboard running on a stadium > scoreboard. > > > > That'll generate some lap by lap excitement! Are we still talking about Leilani Rios? malmo
RE: t-and-f: Drug cheats aren't funny Garry.
Or the American machine of the 70s and 80s. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:14 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Drug cheats aren't funny Garry. > > > Aren't we mixing eras? As I read Paul's question, it applies > to the 50's and 60's, not the spotty testing during the East > German machine of the 70's and 80's. > > Dan > > > From: P.F.Talbot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > < least as far > > as steroids were concerned), the sport was popular and no one looks > > back on the pre-testing era with disgust do they? >>> > > > --- "Mcewen, Brian T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I look at a picture of Kratochvilova churning home in 1:53 > ... looking > > every bit like a stocky Czech man with a short perm ... and am > > disgusted ... no, maybe revolted is a better word. > > > = > http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Free Contests... @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] <|\/ <^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (lifetime forwarding address) / / (503)370-9969 phone/fax __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
RE: t-and-f: Zurich 1500m :: 11 aug 2000
Don't take this the wrong way Jeroen, but why point out that ElG's "last lap 54.97" in a performance where the average pace is 55.26? malmo > > According to ATHLETICS 2001 and the Edmonton 2001 Statistics > Handbook of the IAAF, both including the all-time list for > all T&F-fields (and more), the best ever 1500 meter should be: > > 11th August 2000, Weltklasse Zurich CH: > 1. 3.27.21 (3rd time ever) El Guerrouj; last lap 54.97 > 2. 3.28.12 (7th time ever, 3rd fastest runner ever) Ngeny > 3. 3.28.51 (11th time ever, 4th faster runner ever) B. Lagat > > 2nd fastest race might be the 1997-edition of the Weltklasse: > 1. El Guerrouj 3.28.91 2. Cacho European Record: 3.28.95 3. > Niyongabo 3.29.43 > > As far as I know Saidi Sief has never runner below 3.30 > > Hopes this helps in your mental preparation for tomorrow's meeting. > > Regards, > > Jeroen de Wilt > The Netherlands > > P.S. is there any pacemaker announced on the cited website? > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht- > Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Datum: donderdag 16 augustus 2001 23:04 > Onderwerp: Re: t-and-f: Zurich 1500m > > > > >rare race pitting the (very loosely) past, present and future of the > >event against each other.> > > > >Ali S-S is not running according to the website. Too bad. > Bernard Lagat > >is > running. That's still a pretty fair trio. > > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: Top 10 list: What's your best running song ever?
Yes, "Where the streets have no name", great song to play at 5am while stumbling around in a hypnogogic daze in search of your running gear. Another great running song: I Run Alone (apologies to George Thorogood) I run alone, yeah, with nobody else I run alone, yeah, with nobody else You know when I run alone, I prefer to run by myself Every morning just before breakfast, I don't want no coffee or tea Just me and my good buddy roads, that's all I ever need 'Cause I run alone, yeah, with nobody else Yeah, you know when I run alone, I prefer to run by myself The other night I laid sleeping, and I woke from a terrible dream I dreampt my coach was Jack Daniels, and his partner Jeff Galloway And we ran alone, yeah, with nobody else Yeah, you know when I run alone, I prefer to run by myself The other day I got invited to a race, but I stayed home ran hills instead, Just me and my pal Mr Fartlek, and we ran hard until we were dead, And we ran alone, yeah, with nobody else Yeah, you know when I run alone, I prefer to run by myself I train hard and I win easy, and it makes me feel oh so good The only ones who keep up with me, are skinny Kenyans if they could And we run alone, yeah, with nobody else Yeah, you know why I run alone? 'Cause prefer to win the race by myself malmo > > Just sent in HTML format in error. Apologies if you are > getting twice. It should have got bounced. > > Buck, > You underestimate the song. IMHO, that is the best intro to > the best song of the best rock album by the best group ever > made, period. It transcends running but if you insist, the > lyrics go on to say: > > "I wanna run, I want to hide > I wanna tear down the walls > That hold me inside. > I wanna reach out > And touch the flame > Where the streets have no name" > > Several running references. You have to touch the flame once > in a while, for example, if you want to excel. Regards, > > > Martin > > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:15:26 -0700 > From: "Buck Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Top 10 list: What's your best running song ever? > > U2: Where the streets have no name > > We did a running video to this tune at a camp I once worked > as a counselor. We had the campers running from the other > side of the hill (racing > actually) - a very long lens shot, heat waves, etc. The song > opens with a very rythmic instrumental and as the runners > crested the hill the lyrics began, "I want to run..." > > Very cool :-) > > Cheers, > Buck > > >
RE: t-and-f: Now what's she saving for?
Batavia http://adcon.fnal.gov/userb/www/tevatron/labview.jpeg malmo > > In Edmonton, Suzy F-H said she was saving herself for Zurich. > Tonight, she > (as well as Regina Jacobs) were no-shows. What's she saving > herself for now? > > Jim Gerweck > Running Times > >
RE: t-and-f: More Yegorova
1) Please don't drag my name into your idle speculation, I will willingly jump in when ready. 2) You're responding to a copied post from another message board, where the poster was not the author. malmo > > >Less Than 10% of the guys in the top 50 in the world are NOT on some > >kind > of performance > >enhancing drug. this i know for sure as a matter of personal > expirence > while > >working in an IAAF lab. the problem is there is more to it > than simply > >identifying a positive athlete.. a lot more "under the > table" politics than > > >the general public ever will know about. so basically, if > you're good > >and > >you have ambitions of being the best without taking > anything, good luck. > > I think I'm either quoting or paraphrasing John Travolta in > 'Pulp Fiction', but 'That's a bold statement.' Since you > 'know for sure as a matter of personal expirence (sic)' > let's have some names. Surely if the evidence exists and > you've seen it, there couldn't be any legal ramifications. > Malmo has acquired some degree 'untouchability' under similar > circumstances. He can talk the talk because he's walked the > walk. Seemingly you're also saying that the IAAF routinely > sweeps, oh, 85% or so of positive tests under the rug? Let's > play Woodward and Bernstein. I'll just list 4 athletes, 1 - > 4. You just return a post to the list with the words yes or > no in the 1 - 4 slots. > > 1 - Paul Tergat > > 2- Haile Gebrselaaie > > 3- Daniel Komen > > 4- Maurice Greene > > and for good measure > > 5- Mary Slaney > > /Drew > >
RE: t-and-f: My favorite track and field songs
Hayward Field? That should be "Buy me some stale popcorn and wretched franks" > "Take me out to the track meet, > Take me out with the crowd. > Buy me some nachos and cracker jack, > I don't care if I never get back, > Let me root, root, root for Prefontaine, > If he don't win it's not sweet. > For it's one, two, three misses, you're out, > At the old track meet" > > I feel sorry for baseball fans. Can't think of one song for > their sport. > > Ken Stone > http://www.masterstrack.com > > >
RE: t-and-f: My favorite track and field songs
What, the doping issue at its peak and we're discussing lyrics? You say you want heavy metal? I'm pan-aural. How about we combine heavy metal lyrics and doping? Here goes: GODZILLA With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound He throws a shot farther than a natural man can Busted runners on a circular track Scream all-night-sex-beer and a toothpaste defense He picks up test results and he throws it back down As he wades through the buildings toward the center of town Oh no, they say you've got to go Go go Godzilla, yeah E PO, there goes Edmonton Go go Yegorova, yeah CJ news o moshiagemasu! CJ news o moshiagemasu! Yergorova ga Ginza hoomen e mukatte imasu! Daishkyu hinan shite kudasai! Daishkyu hinan shite kudasai! Oh no, Fill Nite says CJs got to go Go go Godzilla, yeah Marion, her stats back down to earth Go go Miss Jones, yeah (Guitar riff: Me-ah, Misses Jones) Oh no, high T/E ratios Go go Mrs Slaney, yeah E PO, there goes Edmonton Go go Yegorova, yeah T/E shows again and again How excuses only fool the gullible men Badpillaz! Nandrolone shows again and again How history points up to the greed of men Algeria! History shows again and again How chemistry points up the folly of men Godzilla! > What a nice conversation! The doping issue is on its peak and we' re > discussing lyrics. I like it very very much. Well, Belle and Sebastian > are great, but the "Stars of Track and Field" song has nothing to do > with T&F really. Except for that they are "beautiful people". :-) How > about IRON MAIDEN's "Run to the Hills"... It's talking about primitive > insticts. "Run for your lives" etc. A song about the Indiands being > chased by the Conquistadores. Being a Heavy Metal song also, > gives you a good tempo for an epic 1500 m. race of about 3' 45"... > > PANAYOTIS CHRISTOPOULOS >
RE: t-and-f: My favorite track and field songs
And, of course, my favorite: Fake Plastic Trees (apologies to Radiohead) A black plastic nursery-stock pot For a fake Western Cedar tree On a fake plastic track That she got from a running doc In a town full of running fans To get ready for Worlds It wears her out, it wears her out It wears her out, it wears her out She lives with a steroid man A cracked poly-syringe man Who just injects and burns He used to do surgery On girls in the eighties But EPO always wins And it wears him out, it wears him out It wears him out, it wears him out She runs like the real thing He throws like the real thing My fake plastic love But I can't help the feeling I could jump through the ceiling If I just turn and run And it wears me out, it wears me out It wears me out, it wears me out And if I could be who you wanted If I could be who you wanted All the time, all the time
Re: t-and-f: RE: t-and-f: El G's pace in Zürich
Americans could have gone to that high altitude mecca we call Spokane (1900') to prepare. ;) >Message text written by "Michael Contopoulos" >>To begin with... 1200 feet is hardly altitude. I get so frustrated when >people say that Edmonton is at altitude..< > >I believe Edmonton's altitude is about 2100 feet, not 1200. > >
RE: t-and-f: where can I get a PDR subscription?
Garry Two Rs. Your insular life in the South Bay is much different from that of 90 percent of the worlds population. Disease, crime and poverty is the norm. malmo > If i took the same view of everyday life that some of you do > about the sport, I'd see nothing but disease, crime and > poverty and I would've blown my brains out years ago. Enough > > gh >
t-and-f: "I'm a hypoglycemic, hypochondriac, transsexual, transvestite from Transylvania"
None I hope, this stuff is suited for the Jerry Springer Show. malmo > > Couldn't agree more and how many "elite" athletes would even > attempt to let us know what went down. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Wilmar Kortleever" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Louis LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "TF List" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 4:45 PM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Suzy's thoughts about Edmonton and the > rest of the season > > > > LS > > Some of the very fierce critics of SFH that are on this > list will no > > doudt suggest her story is bogus in one way or another. But > if it is > > even remotely close to how she has experienced the last few > weeks, I > > think she should be congratulated on a very open and insightful > > account of some crucial weeks in the life of a top leve athlete. > > Regards, Wilmar Kortleever > > > > Louis LeBlanc schreef: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I have to admit, I'm not exactly in the mood to write about my > > > running over the past couple weeks. It's been very frustrating, > > > but Louis, the webmaster of my website thought it would be a good > > > idea to let those who care know what's going on these days. > > > > > > The 10 days or so before Worlds, training was > > > wonderful. I felt absolutely great. I arrived in Edmonton in a > > > good frame of mind and in super shape. > > > > > > What more could I ask. I woke up the morning of the first round, > > > went for a short run, and felt a little sluggish and heavy, just > > > as I felt earlier in Eugene. During the warm > up for the > > > race, again, pretty sluggish, and in the race itself, I > felt lousy, > > > I mean really bad. I had been spiked in the race > > > right on my kneecap, and it was tightening up on me. > > > > > > I spent that night wondering whether I would be able > > > to compete the next day as my knee was not able to > > > bend very well, and wondering whether I should > > > compete due to the way I felt. We all just decided to see how I > > > felt the next day. The next morning, I could barely move my leg. > > > It was really stiff. I saw the team doctor and received some > > > treatment and pain reliever. > > > By race time, it was feeling pretty good, and in my > > > warm up, I felt less sluggish. I was ready to give it > > > a shot. I think I was a little more nervous for this > > > race just because of the events of the previous 24 > > > hours, but I wasn't out of control by any means. I > > > was just a little unsure of myself. As the race > progressed, I felt > > > pretty good actually, and was just making a move to the > front when > > > someone fell around me and I almost went down. It > knocked me off a > > > few strides and I tried to catch back up, but > > > realized that my legs had no turnover and I was tightening up. I > > > knew this was not going to be good. I was asking for one of those > > > crash and burn last laps and I did not want to go through another > > > Sydney. I was panicking a bit and I thought the wise route was > > > to pull up. My coach and manager thought > > > based on how I looked at that point, it was the right > > > thing to do. > > > > > > Louis has told me that I'm receiving some criticism by some about > > > what I said after the race to the media, that I was saving myself > > > for Zurich. I can promise you that in no way did I mean that the > > > way some have interpreted it. I should have been more > > > clear. I simply meant that I thought is was wise to > > > avoid one of those crash and burn races like you saw > > > me run in Sydney so that I could have a chance to be > > > able to compete in a couple more races during the > > > remainder of the season. Those last 400m were going > > > to be a nightmare. That was something I did not want > > > to go through again. > > > > > > A few days after Worlds, I experienced more bad news. > > > I was practicing with Sarah Schwald, one of my > > > training partners and experienced some problems. I > > > had to stop in the middle of what was really a routine > workout. I > > > really don't remember any of it, but according to Sarah, I was > > > delirious and looking terri
RE: t-and-f: Top 10 list: What's your best running song ever?
In the movie 'Personal Best' Al Feuerbach, formerly of the Two Big Guys Track Club (now called One Skinny Guy, One Little Runt), performed his original song 'Diannabol'. Anyone remember the words? Anyone hear the message? Or do we just bounce our heads while humming "...smiling happy people..." to ourselves? Break's over, heads back in you're ^$$=$ malmo > > oooh. Even more esoteric. Ok then. New Order's Run(stolen > from John Denver) off Technique. A little more > mainstream-Steppenwolf's Born to be Wild. I also dare you not > to do a workout after watching Peter Strauss running in the > Jericho Mile to the strains of Sympathy for the Devil. > Weren't some actual late 70s runners recruited for some of > the running scenes in that movie? Maybe some of your cohorts > malmo? Regards, > > > Martin
RE: t-and-f: Top 10 list: What's your best running song ever?
damn homonyms > Break's over, heads back in you're ^$$=$ > > malmo > > > > > > oooh. Even more esoteric. Ok then. New Order's Run(stolen > > from John Denver) off Technique. A little more > > mainstream-Steppenwolf's Born to be Wild. I also dare you not > > to do a workout after watching Peter Strauss running in the > > Jericho Mile to the strains of Sympathy for the Devil. > > Weren't some actual late 70s runners recruited for some of > > the running scenes in that movie? Maybe some of your cohorts > > malmo? Regards, > > > > > > Martin >
RE: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
Neither Padilla nor Maree ever got close to a medal. You did, however, overlook someone who did get a medal, Brian Diemer, and presumably he would be a "...legitimate distance threat" by default. > > Simply stated, I think an at his best Pre today would give > the US the ability to talk about a "medal hope" at something > above 400 meters on the track .. > > And I am surprised that everyone has allowed Kennedy to be > put in the overrated category in an earlier post when he has > been the only real legitimate distance threat the US has had > since Padilla, Marsh and Maree (oops another import) .. > > Conway Hill > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and > underrated > > > > > > In a message dated 8/24/2001 7:31:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > << Big fish in a fairly small pond. Even in the US distance Golden > > Age, holding a bunch of US NRs is admirable, but not that > big a deal > > in the overall picture. It's kind of like holding all the > basketball > > national scoring and rebounding records in Canada. > > > > Kurt Bray >> > > > > You know something, I'm 52 years old and have been running since > > freshman year HS and I have never seen another runner like Steve > > Prefontaine. I > also > > greatly admired Gerry Lindgren, Herb Elliot, Peter Snell > and Jim Ryun. > > Is > Pre > > "over rated"? I don't think so. His achievements actually are huge > > when > you > > consider that today's "elite" runners don't even attempt to run the > > range > of > > races that Pre excelled at. But actually, I find all this > stuff on the > list > > knocking Pre pretty boring and stupid. But I guess typing is a lot > > less tiring than running. > > > > JT > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
Croghan hasn't been top 10 ranked? Cudda fooled me. Outperformed him on the clock? Yeah right, what's Kennedy's best steeple, nine minutes? Don't you start reciting girly-boy flat races on me. They don't count. malmo > Wayne wrote: > > > > > Why do you rate Kennedy in a class above Croghan? I think if you > > compare their international records you would find them pretty > > comparable. > > > > Because Kennedy has been top 10 world ranked and has > outperformed him on the clock .. > > Conway Hill > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >
RE: t-and-f: The miraculous age- the thirtieth year of an athlete's life
Uri, Uri, Uri, wudda we gonna do wid you? Whats a matta kid, you never compeeded before? Ever had a bad day in da office? Only when deeze guys have a bad day, everybody iz watchin dem. OK, lets just say you're just fan. You mean ta tell me, in all da years you been watchin da sport, dat you never seen somebody have a bad day den come back an bust one out? Uri, Uri, Uri...C'mon, buddy, wize up. Dat Suzy broad iz anudder madder. If we wuz her pimp (Nike) we'd turn her back out on da street till she come back wid what we paid hur for. Barbie done look so good when she fall down duz she? Deze guyz at Nike are not exactly da sharpest knives in da glove compartment, know wud I mean? In da old days you keep da broads in da stable happy wid furs and jewelry, take em out to classy restaurants. Hey, dey never eat anything anyway... HA HA HA HA! It's da modern times now and da Nike family iz giving em web pages. I went to Suzys page ta see wut all da fuss is about. Get dis -- she went to Monaco and says dat she got kissed by Price Albert. HA HA HA HA. Yeah, datz right, da kid says she "...never been kissed by a Prince before". Heh heh. Hey Suzy, I got newz you you, dats not exactly sumptin you shud be braggin about. Dat old lech Albert, do you know where dat guyz mouth has been? Everywhere you done wanna know...dats where! Hope you wuz wearin your dental dams. So who iz makin you more sick of it dis year, Gary Condit or Suzy? We're sick of em both. Guido and Leroy Da Mangement, Inc. > > So even someone not named Olga Yegorova , or Florence > Griffith (other examples can be thought of) can, at age 29 > years and 4 months, right after a miserable WC championships > in which he looked as if he was dropped from the world's > elite in the particular specialty, smash his own PR (from > which he had been far for a while) within a week by 8 seconds > and become the world's first Non-Kenyan WR holder since good > old Anders Garderud. > > (life) athletics begins at (nearly) 30! > > > New WR! > > 1 Boulami Brahim MAR 7:55.28 (WR) 18 > 2 Kosgei Reuben KEN 7:57.29 10 > 3 Cherono Stephen KEN 7:58.66 9 > 4 Misoi Kipkirui KEN 8:01.69 8 > 5 Nyamu Julius KEN 8:07.59 7 > 6 Martín Luis Miguel ESP 8:08.74 6 > 7 Tahri Bouabdallah FRA 8:09.23 5 > 8 Ezzine Ali MAR 8:10.53 4 > 9 Martín Eliseo ESP 8:19.20 > 10 Blanco José Luis ESP 8:22.73 > 11 Kosgei John KEN 8:27.62 > 12 Vroemen Simon NED 8:30.13 > 13 Khattabi Elarbi MAR 8:36.44 >Jiménez Antonio ESP DNF >Kapkory Josephat KEN DNF >Langat John KEN DNF >Yator Raymond KEN DNF > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
RE: t-and-f: Trackopalypse Now Redux (was "Jabe's" exact quote)
Gabe = Bob Denver... AB-SO-LUTE-LY!!! http://www.bobdenver.com/ http://www.pressenter.com/~gregboe/Greg/classicTV/Gilligan'sThemeSong.ht m Alright kiddies, know what time it is? Time to play track song lyrics again!! Go knock yourself out! Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful trip. That started from this tropic port, aboard this tiny ship. The mate was a mighty sailin' man, the skipper brave and sure. Five passengers set sail that day, for a three hour tour, a three hour tour... The weather started getting rough, the tiny ship was tossed. If not for the courage of the fearless crew, the Minnow would be lost; the Minnow would be lost. The ship took ground on the shore of this uncharted desert isle, with Gilligan, the Skipper too, the Millionaire, and his Wife, the Movie Star, the Professor and Mary Ann, here on Gilligan's Isle. So this is the tale of our castaways, they're here for a long, long time. They'll have to make the best of things, it's an uphill climb. The first mate and his skipper too, will do their very best, to make the others comfortable, in the tropic island nest. No phones, no lights, no motor cars, not a single luxury. Like Robinson Crusoe, it's primitive as can be. So join us here each week my friend, you're sure to get a smile. >From seven stranded Castaways, Here on Gilligan's Isle. malmo "The Skipper" > > There is no way Dennis Hopper is Gabe Jennings in an earlier > incarnation. He > makes too much sense. > > Jim Gerweck > Running Times >
RE: t-and-f: believe it or not
Distance runners time investment versus that of sprinters? Distance running, of all events in track, requires the LEAST amount of time investment. Few sports besides running, if any, can one become one of the best in the world on just two hours a day. The sprinters put in a long day to get where they are. Give em credit. malmo Because of the work > necessary (read "investment") to reach an elite level versus > sprinters, > they are more likely to have structured their life around > their training, > and leaving school for work was a much smaller adjustment vis-a-vis > training and competition. > With sprinters now able to make a living, the transition to > work is in fact > just a continuation of their sport. On the other hand, the number of > masters sprinters is tiny in comparison to masters distance > runners, where > the old model still rules. > I guess we've been fooled up to now about whether speed peaks before > endurance by biased, tainted data. > As for the Kenyans, I would not be surprised if they are not > suffering > early burnout from intense training. Our discussion about > the York HS > program has some applicabiltiy here. > And as an added note, Webb is competitive with the African > Juniors, no > matter what their age. I believe his time would have been > among the top 3 > Jrs 1500s in the world in 2000. > BTW, if you look at the average of past distance world record > holders, I > think you'll find that at least after 1960 (the true modern > era), they have > been much younger than you might think. I'm skating without > data here, but > I think the following folks were under 25 when they set their > WRs: Viren, > Rono, Aouita, ElG, Morcelli, Cram, Coe, Geb, Komen (he was 21 > I believe!), > Kimombwa. > > Richard McCann > >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:06:02 -0600 (MDT) > >From: "P.F.Talbot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: believe it or not > > > >Also, Shorter was 24 when he won Olympic Gold in the > marathon correct > >(and was 5th in the Olympic 10,000m)? He arguably improved > little if > >any after that time (though he did dominate the sport for > years at his > >peak). > > > >On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Ed & Dana Parrot wrote: > > > > > > Hmm, let's see. 30-year-old Carl Lewis set his first > record in the > > > > 100, > > > was succceeded by 27-year-old Leroy Burrell who was suceeded by > > > 28-year-old Donovan Bailey. MJ set the 200 record at 28, the 400 > > > record (finally) > > at 30. > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, Geb holds the 5K and 10K marks set when he was 25. > > > > > > And Komen before him was not exactly geriatric, either. > Even if you > > > don't believe the stated ages, the Africans are clearly > having world > > > class > > success > > > at the distance events well before age 25. I suspect if > you look at > > the top > > > ten in any given year, there won't be that much age difference > > > between sprinters and distance runners any more. > > > > > > The comparison IS made more difficult (actually > impossible) by the > > > fact > > that > > > we can't judge many of the Africans' ages accurately. > But the last > > > 15 > > years > > > of sprinting has seen 25-30 become the peak age. > >
RE: t-and-f: WMA plans response to NMN column
No wonder the can only pay $500 bucks a month (possibly violating federal employment laws) for a webmaster. Those junkets are expen$$$ive. malmo > > > Greetings, all > > Just been informed by WMA Exec Veep Tom Jordan that World > Masters Athletics > plans to respond to the massively critical column by Al > Sheahen in the > current issue of National Masters News. > > That column -- if you haven't seen it -- is posted at > http://www.masterstrack.com/news2001/news2001august14.html > > Jordan writes: "The WMA Council is formulating a response to > Al's column, > which will be forthcoming before the next NMN deadline." > > Should be interesting. > > Ken Stone > http://www.masterstrack.com >
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
>> The more interesting question this thread raises to me is not how to >> characterize Pre but what he would have done if he had lived. >> >> 7. What would be his role today - coach, official, agent, promoter, >> commentator, or some combination?>> > > >bartender > at the Silver Dollar Club. >
Re: t-and-f: What do Tiger Woods,
> >To become proficient at running you need to have ongoing barf sessions. Not exactly what the average kid is looking for for entertainment. > >gh > If you are barfing you are not doing it right. malmo
RE: t-and-f: Re: Where are we going?
Exactly. Sometimes it's the steeplechasers who switch to the 1500 for the easy pickens. Jurgen Straub and Filbert Bayi come to mind. malmo > --- Jim McLatchie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It was agreed that most of the milers who are running in > the 3:55 to 4 > > min range would have more success competing in the steeple > > I fail to understand why this line of thinking is so > prevalent. A 3:55 - 4:00 miler may not be in the wrong event > any more than a 3:45 - 3:50 miler is, they're just slower. > Is that so hard to comprehend?
t-and-f: COME AND TRY...DEVELOP... PERFORM?
JEEZUZ! Did an MBA come up with this crap? The way to identify and develop steeplechasers hasn't changed in forty years. This is how: "Hey, Jipcho!" "Yes, coach" "You ever run the steeplechase?" "No, coach" "Get out there and run one this weekend!" "Yes, coach." See? It works. No cute "duck and cover" slogans. No wasteful junkets to England. The real deal. malmo "I used to hate obnoxious people too -- until I became their leader" - a wise man > > STAGE ONE > > 1. COME & TRY - having a go over low barriers and being > given general > > training advice and event info. 2. COME & DEVELOP - getting > some more > > coaching over barriers + more training > > advice > > 3. COME & PERFORM - having a go at a short race e.g. 1000M (with no > > water > > jump). > > > > STAGE TWO > > 1. C0ME & TRY - having a go over the water jump + training > programme > > advice. 2. COME & DEVELOP - more coaching over water jump > and barriers > > + continued > > training advice. > > 3. COME & PERFORM - competing in a 1,000M S/C competition with water > > jump > > > > This will help prepare them enough to continue training for > the event > > in the lead up to doing a 2,000M S/C and then eventually a > 3,000M S/C. > > The English > > Schools should be approached to run the steeple at 2000M using the > > appropriate heights suggested above. > > > > Anticipated involvement with an endurance and hurdles > coach, and also > > inviting their own coach to attend. > >
RE: t-and-f: Re: Goodwill Men's 5k (fwd)
Numbers? All numbers look the same. Could it be he identified the athlete by just looking at them? malmo > > And thank goodness that play-by-play man Tom Hammond has good > eyes and was > able to pick up the hip numbers as five Kenyans, all wearing > the National > uniform, came screaming down the straightaway. > > Walt Murphy >
RE: t-and-f: Goodwill 5000 results...51-WHAT?
Do I have to give you guys the answer? It's the Goodwill Games for Christssakes! Who cares about the Goodwill Games except TV executives? It mean nothing, nada, zilch, jack! One more payday and a chance to meet Steve Irwin. I'm interested in exactly how fast they ran that last lap. '51 seconds' has been published and thrown around here but 51-WHAT? Or is it not a 51 but a 52 that has grown into a 51 on the power of the written word? It's happened before. SOMEBODY must have the answer. malmo >Unless I've missed (i.e,deleted) some posts on this, no > one seems to > address the obvious reason why it makes no sense for the > whole field to run > a very slow pace. Did every one of them really believe he > had the fastest > kick? Didn't some of them realize they could not win if it > came down to a > last lap kick? Why then didn't they try something, > anything. Kuts like > surges, a fast last 4-5 laps. Anything but simply trot and > inevitably get > outkicked. Sure they all finished close, but they also all > know one another. > They know which of them can run 51 off that dawdling pace and > which can't. >I agree with those who find tactical races much more > interesting than > rabbited races, but I also agree with those who find this > sort of race > ridiculous - for the reason I just stated. > Geoff Pietsch > > > >From: "John Bale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "John Bale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Alan Shank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Wayne T. Armbrust" > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >CC: "Track & Field List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Goodwill 5000 results > >Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 10:22:41 +0100 > > > >What's wrong with racing at a slow pace? > >John Bale > >- Original Message - > >From: Alan Shank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: Wayne T. Armbrust <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Cc: Track & Field List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 7:47 PM > >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Goodwill 5000 results > > > > > > > "Wayne T. Armbrust" wrote: > > > > > > > > "Post, Marty" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is this the first time in any major international competition > > > > > where > >the > > > > > men's gold medal winning performance has been slower than the > >women's??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did they run two extra laps or something? > > > No, they read the thread on this list about Harold > Norpoth winning a > > > European Cup in 15+, got nostalgic and decided to match > it! Cheers, > > > Alan Shank > > > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >
RE: t-and-f: Goodwill 5000 results
You're damn right, John. There's nothing wrong with it. If the athletes run too fast, they complain that it's paced. If the athletes run too slow they complain that the pacesetter didn't do his job. If the pace is "just right" they complain it wasn't exciting enough. The day that naked chicks serve beer at Hayward Field they'll complain they have to walk too far. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John Bale > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:23 AM > To: Alan Shank; Wayne T. Armbrust > Cc: Track & Field List > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Goodwill 5000 results > > > What's wrong with racing at a slow pace? > John Bale
t-and-f: SHAME and DISGUST: While the Nation mourns...
..the City of Eugene is celebrating in the streets. Is this Baghdad? The city that coddles, aids and abets their home-grown brand of "cute" terrorists, the so-called anarchist movement, the city that has normed every form of aberrant behavior except common sense, has show its disrespect and contempt for the nation, once more. That's right track fans, the city that hosts so many of our track events, is thumbing its nose at the rest of the country and having its annual "Eugene Celebration". Celebrate what? This city that bends over backwards not to comply with the demands of the fringe element, all in the name of honoring diversity, refuses to acquiesce to the demands of their conscience. Its been said before, that Eugene has been living in the 60s. Their wrong, they're living in the dark ages. They should be black-listed from USATF sponsored events in the future. SHAME ON THEM. A NATIONAL DISGRACE. George Malley
RE: t-and-f: SHAME and DISGUST: While the Nation mourns...
Wow! You guys know I refuse to edit my own posts, but this one was particulary bad. Oooops, shame on me. Hee-hee. I'll revise my type and send policy in the futurenh, fuggitaboutit. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of malmo > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 1:39 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: SHAME and DISGUST: While the Nation mourns... > > > ..the City of Eugene is celebrating in the streets. Is this > Baghdad? The city that coddles, aids and abets their > home-grown brand of "cute" terrorists, the so-called > anarchist movement, the city that has normed every form of > aberrant behavior except common sense, has show its > disrespect and contempt for the nation, once more. > > That's right track fans, the city that hosts so many of our > track events, is thumbing its nose at the rest of the country > and having its annual "Eugene Celebration". > > Celebrate what? > > This city that bends over backwards not to comply with the > demands of the fringe element, all in the name of honoring > diversity, refuses to acquiesce to the demands of their conscience. > > Its been said before, that Eugene has been living in the 60s. > Their wrong, they're living in the dark ages. > > They should be black-listed from USATF sponsored events in > the future. > > SHAME ON THEM. A NATIONAL DISGRACE. > > George Malley > > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: Takahashi trivia EMBARRASSING!!
DLTF said: "Jack Daniels' long tempo runs have come into vogue," What next from Jack Daniels Industries -- "Jack Daniels" sliced bread and the "Jack Daniels" wheel? h... Just a thought, malmo, the inventor of "malmo" fartlek, "malmo" hills, "malmo" morning runs and "malmo" cold beer. http://www.fieler.com/terror/
RE: t-and-f: Takahashi trivia EMBARASSING!!
But it's those stretches of 140-170s that makes everything else possible. Train hard -- really hard -- but listen to your body and know when to back off. Get those 100 runners at 140-150mpw and you'll mine a few 2:09s. Get 1000 of them and you'll mine a few 2:07s (and many 2:09s). It's all a numbers game. malmo, inventor of "malmo" pizza, and "malmo" frottage. ><<< If we had 100 runners running an average of 140-50 a week with >flirtations with 200 how many sub 2:20s would we have. Apparently the >Japanese already have this answer. I also doubt they took 10 years to build >up to near 200 mpw levels. >>> > > >There is a guy most of us know and love ... > >He ran at the highest levels many times over a career that stretched from >age 15 to 35 ... > >4-minute-miler, AR Steepler, AR half-marathoner, and pretty good marathoner >... still high on the US all-time list in the last three. > >Never ran a 200 mile week, never consistently logged 150 a week for any >extended period. > >Never ran slower than 2:13:44. > > >We see what you are saying about commitment and training levels, etc. and >improvements in those things would help the US situation. But 150, 180 or >200 mpw isn't really what is gonna get this done > >/Brian McEwen > > > >-Original Message- >From: Michael Rohl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 6:42 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; >[EMAIL PROTECTED]; alan tobin >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Takahashi trivia EMBARASSING!! > > > >> If we had 100 runners running an average of >> 140-50 a week with flirtations with 200 how many sub 2:20s would we have? >> Apparently the Japanese already have this answer. I also doubt they took >10 >> years to build up to near 200 mpw levels. > >I think we would have a lot of dead runners. I keep hearing this again and >again but 200 mile weeks are not the answer because I don't believe there >are >any runners really running 200mpw. Some say so but > >Michael Rohl >Head Coach X-C, T&F >Mansfield University > >
Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, Chorny, Rogers, Meb, Shame on any of them who dare run 2.5 mile XC. Shame on Grote for such unclean thoughts! malmo >Been saying this for years and maybe they are getting closer to it, but to >promote the sport at the elite level to those at the grass roots level try >this on for size: > >-Have a freaking short course x-c race at Van Cortlandt park on the classic >2.5 mile course the same day as the GIGANTIC Manhattan Invite which has >around 8000 entrants, all school kids. Duh. > >-Make it a special, invite only, money most likely race. I'm sure there >will be sponsor conflicts...but whatever, get over it. Have it in the >middle of the day, right after some of the better varsity races. When's the >last time that non-HS runners ran the 2.5 course? Would Hudson's record >fall? > >-Field with guys like Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, Chorny, >Rogers, Meb, whoever. Same idea with women. > >CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. Seems to make too much sense. Given that USATF is >starting to push some of its big ticket events to a real market, to THE real >market (NYC Metro) maybe this could happen. A tuneup event for the USATF >X-C Nationals At VCP? What a concept, its been done before...hey maybe >even just have ONE national x-c meet, not club/regular? US Marathon Champs >are here, Hall of Fame will be here, Indoor Nats will be here, making a 2012 >Olympic Bid...maybe a good outdoor facility in the vicinity? > >Grote >adiRP/MMRD > >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 1:07 PM >Subject: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > > >> I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course races. >Just not at championship meets. >> >> I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in many >ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. >> >> Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter loops, say >1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This might sound >boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at the Brussels cross >race where the loop was only 1500m. >> >> Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, and team >places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 runners. It >might be fun to see how five college guys could compare to a world class >marathoner. >> sideshow >> > > >
RE: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate
Just hope they show up with Kenyan passports as proof of age: 17 years old. malmo > > Great idea about the 2.5 elite race. Brad Hudson's record is > 12:15 We would hope that the record went. Any predictions on > what and who could run what on this historic course!! > > Dan Doherty > > - Original Message - > From: Ryan Grote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:20 PM > Subject: Re: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > > > > Been saying this for years and maybe they are getting closer to it, > > but to promote the sport at the elite level to those at the grass > > roots level try this on for size: > > > > -Have a freaking short course x-c race at Van Cortlandt park on the > classic > > 2.5 mile course the same day as the GIGANTIC Manhattan Invite which > > has around 8000 entrants, all school kids. Duh. > > > > -Make it a special, invite only, money most likely race. I'm sure > > there will be sponsor conflicts...but whatever, get over > it. Have it > > in the middle of the day, right after some of the better varsity > > races. When's > the > > last time that non-HS runners ran the 2.5 course? Would Hudson's > > record fall? > > > > -Field with guys like Broe, Goucher, Browne, Lunn, Famiglietti, > > Chorny, Rogers, Meb, whoever. Same idea with women. > > > > CAPTIVE AUDIENCE. Seems to make too much sense. Given > that USATF is > > starting to push some of its big ticket events to a real market, to > > THE > real > > market (NYC Metro) maybe this could happen. A tuneup event for the > > USATF X-C Nationals At VCP? What a concept, its been done > > before...hey > maybe > > even just have ONE national x-c meet, not club/regular? US Marathon > Champs > > are here, Hall of Fame will be here, Indoor Nats will be > here, making > > a > 2012 > > Olympic Bid...maybe a good outdoor facility in the vicinity? > > > > Grote > > adiRP/MMRD > > > > - Original Message - > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 1:07 PM > > Subject: t-and-f: XC Long-Short Debate > > > > > > > I don't see anything wrong with having both long and short course > > > races. > > Just not at championship meets. > > > > > > I think cross meets can be made more exciting and fan-friendly in > > > many > > ways. Adding a short course race is only one of them. > > > > > > Other ideas include making courses consisting of shorter > loops, say > > 1200m-2000m, so virtually the entire race is visible. This > might sound > > boring, but one of the best courses I've ever run was at > the Brussels > cross > > race where the loop was only 1500m. > > > > > > Another idea would be to have a race that is 1/5th of a marathon, > > > and > team > > places would be determined by adding the times of the top 5 > runners. > > It might be fun to see how five college guys could compare > to a world > > class marathoner. > > > sideshow > > > > > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: NYC Marathon
(sorry if they seem a bit harsh, but U.S. t and f lackeys deserve it) 8. Dan Lilot will buy some dignity. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 7:57 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: NYC Marathon > > > Not much talk on the lists about the NYC Marathon. Here are > some of my predictions (sorry if they seem a bit harsh, but > U.S. marathoning deserves it). > > First of all, kudos to the organizers for making the race the > U.S. championship and for assembling an excellent American > field to augment the always good furriner field. > > 1. 1 American will break 2:15 > 2. 4 Americans will break 2:20 > 3. Deena will beat Teddy (this includes a DNF) > 4. 1987 runner-up and now manager Gianni Demadonna will > exclaim, "Thees is a crazee race." 5. Shem Kororia, 3rd the > last 2 years, will not, unfortunately, improve on his > placing. 6. NBC will spend more time showing flags and Yankee > hats than race coverage. 7. Grote will consume 2 boxes of > Cocoa Krispies after his race. sideshow >
RE: t-and-f: marathon qualifiers: Malmo's wrong
Speaking for myself, my eyes are located on the anterior/cranial surface, not the posterior/cranial as suggested by marathon historian Derderian. Not only does this limit my vision to a forward direction anatomically speaking, it also does so metaphorically. Thousands of references to that fact available upon request. malmo "Is it true cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?" - Steve Wright -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Thomas J. Derderian Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 3:15 PM To: Geoff Pietsch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: marathon qualifiers: Malmo's wrong > Malmo mentions the need for "1,000 hardass sonofabitches who don't > fear failure." The great USA runners of the past (and the current runners from countries that have lots of competitive racers) ran not fearlessly but out of tremendous fear of the other guys behind them. Each guy had a set of guys who would finish behind but within sight. Those guys behind haunted the first order of guys with the unspeakable indignity of being passed in a race. The possibility that one of those untouchables would beat runners like Rodgers, Thomas, Shorter, Salazar, Meyer,Flemming,Durden, and Malley drove them to complete every interval in a workout they set out to complete because the demons just behind might do the entire workout or get in more miles that week or that month and sail by in the next race and be standing at the finish line with a shit-eat grin reaching to shake hands and say, "good race". They (and any honest competitors) could not let that happen. That's what I was always trying to do to those guys (and lots of others) and other guys were trying to do to me so I didn't dare miss a workout either. That is the driving effect of a thickness of competition. So I wonder, who is Josh Cox afraid of? Don't look back...somebody might be gaining on you... Tom Derderian
RE: t-and-f: Hard-working marathoner: Josh Cox...all sussed out
Me thinks you wouldn't know embellishment if it bit you on the leg. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Richard McCann Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 2:57 PM To: T&FMail List Cc: Michael Contopoulos Subject: Re: t-and-f: Hard-working marathoner: Josh Cox At 04:54 PM 11/7/2001 -0800, t-and-f-digest wrote.. >Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 16:01:55 -0500 >From: "Michael Contopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: t-and-f: Hard-working marathoner: Josh Cox > >Ken, > >No disrespect to a hard working marathoner, but I'm surprised you were >so impressed with that. 5x2000 at 4:40 pace and 8x400 in 60-62 is not >that much different than what I see a lot of college guys do. It takes >a lot more than that to impress me. > >M 5 x 2000 at 10k pace with a minute jog is really beyond all but the most elite collegiate athletes. Tag on 8 x 400 / rest? at 61, and I doubt many could do that. Certainly, I did not see ANY collegians in the early 80s who could do that, and I was training with Brian Diemer, Gerry Donakowski and Chris Brewster for two years, all of whom were either NCAA or TAC champs soon within a year.
RE: t-and-f: McCloy vs Virgin was Big 10 XC trivia
You sure the hell don't have your facts straight. Virgin did not leave Eugene "not on the best of terms". malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Martin J. Dixon Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 9:11 PM To: Track & Field List Subject: t-and-f: McCloy vs Virgin was Big 10 XC trivia Funny that Virgin was the subject of a few posts because there was a post to the Can list about a race between McCloy and Virgin. The story below comes from McCloy's former coach, Ray Will. He is definitely taking liberties with what Virgin said but he says that the jist of it is accurate. Maybe some of you recall the race? It was the 84 Pepsi Relays in Oregon. Apparently, the meet still exists in some form-don't know whether they ever had any success in attempting to do a Penn or Drake West. McCloy still has the meet record. His best up until then was only 29:38 but someone got the 20 year old into the meet based on his success at the World X-C champs. Anyone who has seen Paul run will appreciate the story. Controlled mayhem. The fans also got behind the underdog-Tabb was in the race too-apparently they were not all that enamored with Virgin in any event because he left Eugene on not the best of terms. Hopefully my facts are reasonably accurate because I'm getting a lot of it second hand.
RE: t-and-f: Mark Everett arrested
Those things run on regular batteries too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 6:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Mark Everett arrested Taken into custody in Gainesville last week, two incidences of "sexual battery." gh
RE: t-and-f: marathon taper
So sorry to report: marathon tapers are neither tricky nor does "doing more" make one tired. I know you didn't read that in "Jack Daniels Running Formula", it's in "malmos Running Algorithm" though. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael Rohl Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:59 PM To: Michael Contopoulos; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: marathon taper Marathon tapers are very tricky, but doing more only make you tired. For an athlete coming out of 80 mile weeks (a poor measure of training to begin with) a 60-50-30(not including the race sounds about right. More important are the key workouts that one would want to hit. Did the individual hit his 30k with each 10 faster at marathon pace 3-4 weeks out? Did they get in 4*5k progressively faster? Then you can cut morning runs, there by reducing volume, by 20 % and maintain fitness. They only consideration that on might have is being able to adjust diet to prevent weight gain, or watching salt intake to prevent water retention. One reason I have handled Championships better then most would expect is because of my ability to taper. Too little is almost always going to be better then to much. In the last weeks. If you want I'll write down a typical taper verbatim. Michael Rohl Head Coach X-C, T&F Mansfield University
RE: t-and-f: marathon qualifiers
http://www.grammarbook.com/ See "periods and ellipses" -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robert Hersh Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 7:25 AM To: INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: marathon qualifiers Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ...think of it in different terms ...to connect with a recent thread on this list, I've been 'tapering' for my marathon debut for the last 20 years or so...but surely I need another 10-15 years at it... ...gotta be careful, if I over-taper I might fall off the couch...on the other hand, if I ever say I'm "ready", I might have to actually DO something... < Randy -- I'm sorry to see that you've joined the three dot brigade. You should know that I never read anything written in this form. It is disjointed writing, which suggests disjointed thinking. And it's difficult to read. By the way, I'm not the only list subscriber who ignores three dot writing. I know this because I've mentioned this point to some track friends who have the same reaction. So if you want to keep writing that way, by all means do so, but do so knowing that some people find it annoying and a significant subset of those people will simply ignore what you've written. Bob H
RE: t-and-f: Best all-time milers by state ?
Ralph "Mr. Freeze" King -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of toby - Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Best all-time milers by state ? how bout the skinniest man alive-Chris Fox- for WV(3:59.0)? Shannon Butler for Montana? Maybe Ralph King for Georgia? toby From: "jsully13" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "jsully13" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: t-and-f: Best all-time milers by state ? Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:41:03 -0600 Who ran the fastest all-time mile for each of the 50 states? Based on where each guy went to HS, but includes post-HS times. Anyone to add or corrections to the list below? Alabama: Steve Bolt -- 3:59.40 Alaska: Marcus Dunbar -- 4.00.58 Arizona: Arkansas: Brian Baker -- 3:57.40 California: Steve Scott -- 3:47.69 Colorado: Adam Goucher -- 3:54.17 Connecticut: Kevin King -- 3:58.31 Delaware: Florida: Brian Jaeger -- 3:59.47 Georgia: Hawaii: Duncan McDonald -- 3:58.4 Idaho: Illinois: Jim Spivey -- 3:49.80 Indiana: Terry Brahm -- 3:54.56 Iowa: Jerome Howe -- 3:59.20 Kansas: Jim Ryun -- 3:51.1 Kentucky: Louisiana: Shannon Lemora -- 3:57.47 Maine: Erik Nedeau -- 3:57.28 Maryland: Dave Patrick -- 3:56.8 Massachusetts: Andy Downin -- 3:56.25 Michigan: Paul McMullen -- 3:55.84 Minnesota: Steve Holman -- 3:50.40 Mississippi: Missouri: Joe Falcon -- 3:49.31 Montana: Nebraska: Nevada: New Hampshire: Matt Downin -- 4:00.52 New Jersey: Marty Liquori -- 3:52.2 New Mexico: Chuck Aragon -- 3:51.62 New York: John Gregorek -- 3:51.34 North Carolina: Tony Waldrop -- 3:53.2 North Dakota: Corey Imhals -- 3:59.70 Ohio: Tom Byers -- 3:50.83 Oklahoma: Oregon: Steve Prefontaine -- 3:54.60 Pennsylvania: Paul Vandergrift -- 3:57.88 Rhode Island: South Carolina: Terrence Herrington -- 3:53.64 South Dakota: Jeff Schemmel -- 3:58.18 Tennessee: Jay Woods -- 3:54.40 Texas: Todd Harbour -- 3:50.34 Utah: Jeremy Tolman -- 3:59.99 Vermont: Virginia: Alan Webb -- 3:53.43 Washington: John Quade -- 3:54.60 West Virginia: Wisconsin: Steve Lacy -- 3:54.70 Wyoming: _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: t-and-f: Best all-time milers by state ?
Others that got "relagated" to the steeplechase: Ben Jipcho, Filbert Bayi, Jurgen Straub, Moses Kiptumsomeguy, John Gregorek. malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 10:48 PM To: jsully13 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Best all-time milers by state ? On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:41:03 -0600, you wrote: >Who ran the fastest all-time mile for each of the 50 states? Based on where each guy went to HS, but includes post-HS times. Anyone to add or corrections to the list below? > >Florida: Brian Jaeger -- 3:59.47 Some of these are a bit misleading...(oops, sorry Bob, pretend you didn't see three dots- tell yourself they're 3 commas) My brother ran a 4:01 as a senior at Florida State in '83, but that wasn't even good enough among his teammates except to get him 'relegated' to the Steeplchase (sorry Malmo).
RE: t-and-f: Of several things
Why sexism? Looks as though Mr Hoffman compiled a list that is "sex-blind". malmo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ed Grant Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 2:06 PM To: track net Subject: t-and-f: Of several things Netters: NJ , of course, has no trouble identifying its fastest miler---who is already on the list---but the various posts raised a couple of questions: 1) Is a runner to be assigned to the state of residence or the state where he went to HS---Adam Dixon, for example, went out-of-state to a prep school. Numerous NJ runners in the past have done the same thing and, conversely, our residential prep schools have had top athletes from all parts of the country. 2) is some sexism veing employed here. Why not a women''s list as well--a slot easier to compile, I would think, with a much shorter stretch of years to research. I attended a great track affair over the weekend--the farewell dinner to Frank Gagliano at Georgetown University. There were large contingents there from the four sites where he has coached over the last 40 years--Roselle Catholic HS, Manhattan, Rutgers and, of course, Georgetown. The speakers were listed as "roasters," but there was very little of that going on. What did impress was the articulate speeches given by national--and international--class athletes,, as well as the statement by former Hoya AD Frank Rienzo that "Gag's: graduation rate was 100 percent. (It is really even more than that sinmce a number of his former athletes have gone on to earn professional or graduatue degrees, (The system he developed at Georgetown was to offer half scholarships for a five-year period, the fifth year almost always being in graduate work of some kind. Abd he would accpt runners to the Reebok Enclave only if they were pursuing further studies or had a "real job," Typical of the strories told was one by two-time Wrld bronze medalist Rich Kenah of his first meeting with Gags. Rich, who was not being actively pursued by Georgetown despite his sub-1:50 win at the Golden West--came in on a 7:30 a.m. flight. He walked down the long corridor at the airport, noticing the rather large gentleman in a Georgetown jacket reading a newspaper. When he got there and introduced himself, Gags reply was "You know what a pain in the ass you are coming in on a 7:30 flight." Then there was Christi (Constantin) Ireland, one of Georgetown's top distance runners in the early 90s (who quit far too soon after graduation) who told of going into Gags office to get her first workout schedule,. (He said to me: on Monday run 10 miles; on Tuesday run 10 miles; on Wednesday run 10 miles and so on for the rest of the week, then added: do you want me to write that down." The fact that the affair was held on the day of the IC4A meet at Van Cortlandt and two days before the NCAAs at Furman naturally cut down the number of college coaches attending, but there was a fair enough sprinkling, including Gags' onetime HS rival and college colleague, Fred Dwyer. In his response, Gags nopted that he and Fred had once had a fight at a meet during their HS coaching days---they had a couple of feudning half milers--but added that when Fred got the Manhattan job in 1969, he immediately asked Gags to join him, (I happened to do up the resumes for both of them). Also overheard a conversation in which Steve Holman was bing encoraged by former teammate to come out of retirement. His reply was that he would like to but his legs couldn't stand the training regime any more. (On the other hand, Bryan Woodward will be joining the Nike farm team training group under Gags after his year's sabbatical.) Ed Grant
RE: t-and-f: Olympic women's 4x400 redux
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of curtis taylor > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 1:42 AM > To: Ed Grant; track net > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Olympic women's 4x400 redux > > > Since you're making accusations why not name names? Just like everything > else on this list, if you're not going to make a direct accusation against > an individual or individuals, all you're doing is adding to the stupifying > amount of innuendo and meaningless blather that already exists on > the list. "Have you ever noticed how your sh!t is stuff and other peoples stuff is sh!t?" - George Carlin Hey Curtis! Wake up, kid! This is the internet. What is meaningless blather to you is meaningful blather to others. Keep your blather bigoty to yourself. malmo
RE: t-and-f: Sonia O'Sullivan wins Dublin Marathon
She's fifteen minutes off of the world record. Let her get competitive at the marathon first before you give her credit for "range". Don't see much talk of 2:20 mens marathoners and their "competitive range"? malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of P.F.Talbot > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 8:02 AM > To: Track list > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Sonia O'Sullivan wins Dublin Marathon > > > How many other women can claim the competitive range from 1500 to marathon > that O'Sullivan has? > > > On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Der O'Donovan wrote: > > > http://www.rte.ie/aertel/p206.htm > > > > DUBLIN MARATHON > > > > > > > > Ireland's Sonia O'Sullivan followed up > > her Olympic silver medal with a victory > > in today's Dublin marathon, in cold > > wet conditions. > > > > O'Sullivan crossed the finishing line > > in a time of 2:30:40 after making she > > only decided at the last minute to > > take part in the race. > > > > Jimev Pride of Scotland won the men's > > marathon in a time of 2:18:59, in a > > race with over 9,000 runners. > > > > *** > Paul Talbot > Department of Geography/ > Institute of Behavioral Science > University of Colorado, Boulder > Boulder CO 80309-0260 > (303) 492-3248 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: Why so expensive to attend USATF meeting?
Why isn't the lawyerley Masback worried about a poll-tax lawsuit? Surely, some unctuous lawyer could argue that some obscure Federal law is being broken? Racketeering laws? malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 9:07 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why so expensive to attend USATF meeting? > > > I agree with the below argument. I have attended a few USATF > meetings and > enjoyed the convention and felt like it was beneficial time > spent. However, > since I typically pay out of my own pocket, I simply can't justify it > anymore. Throw in an airplane ticket and a hotel room, and it > gets into the > outrageous category! > > In a message dated 10/30/2000 4:38:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > Since many of the USATF attendees will be voting on important matters, > these > > > > outrageous fees constitute a poll tax of sorts. The Supreme > Court ruled > > these unconstitutional decades ago, when they were used to limit > > participation of blacks in Southern states (but didn't apply them to > private > > > > or public organizations). But when USATF delegates vote for a new > president > > > > (and chairmen of various committees), only paid registrants > will have a > > voice > > in the future of USATF and its leadership. > > > Hank >
t-and-f: more Rono
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Richard McCann > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 4:32 PM > To: T&FMail List > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping > the water jump a couple of times. > He nearly > lapped the field in his 13:08 WR, and I think his winning margin in his > 27:22 WR was similarly large. His 1977 XC win over World XC champ to be > John Treacy in Spokane was a walk in the park. And his 8:18/13:22 NCAA > double "fartlek workout" is legendary. All of this before EPO was ever > available. My point is that we have seen the tremendous talent > before that > can deliver these performances. Come up with something other > than your own > disbelief and we might start to listen. > > Richard McCann > Neither Geb nor Tergat have done anything close to Rono's incomparable 13:2? in a horizontally blowing blizzard (Pullman, WA 1978). malmo
RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping
> to buy these drugs. Unless you can come up with documentation that the > Kenyan or Ethiopian governments are out in the hinterlands distributing > these drugs, when they can't even distribute food adequately, I > doubt that > drugs are behind the widespread depth of African performances. > > Richard McCann > Ah, there's that rhetorical shield of yours again. Because RC hasn't seen the evidence it doesn't exist. If there is no documentation then it doesn't exist. I don't believe anyone has ever suggested that either the Kenyan or Ethiopian governments has, or even possess the ability or will to administer an American-style doping program. These countries, both known for a long history of neglect of its citizenry, prove each year that getting travel visas in order is a monumental task. malmo
RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping
To create the wave of performances at such young ages, before > these athletes have traveled to Europe where they might gain > access to EPO, > would require a concerted effort by a well-organized institution. Unless > Nike or Fila is making such an investment, (and I suspect shareholders > would question such expenditures, however hidden, in these > countries, even > if as "market development;" and why not spend similar money in other > countries?), there are no other institutions ready and able. > > > Richard McCann > Richard, now you're getting warm. Institutional flouting of doping rules. It's been done many times before THINK malmo
RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping
It used to be that the KAA sent to Junior competitions (and World Univ. games) what appeared to be high school kids...AND they ran like high school kids. Now their "Junior" teams all look 25 years old...AND they run like it. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mcewen, Brian T > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 1:09 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping > > > The "16-17 year olds" in Kenya ... are not always 16-17 years old. Not > unless you believe that a 15 or 16 year old boy can run 27:43. This was > submitted during the World juniors: > > <<<<<< > 1 (M) > As for the other finals, the 10,000 was a race for the Kenyans and > Ethiopians only. After the first serious increment in pace, only Robert > Kipchumba, Duncan Lebo, Abraha Hadush and Kedebe Tekeste were left. With > Lebo setting the pace, the Ethiopians were gone very soon too. In the > final kilometers, Kipchumba proved the strongest setting a strong > 28:54.37 in the 30 degrees Celsius heat. His performance, I hate to > admit, does cast doubts on the year-of-birth that was listed as '84 > (Kipchumba ran a 27:43 earlier this year). > >>>>>>> > > If he WAS born in 1984 ... he would have been 15 and many months, or 16 > years old when he ran 27:43. > > Why would a nation say that some of their top young athletes are > 16, 17, or > 18? So they can set World Junior Records this season and next. > > 12:54 WJR for 5000m? Come on. > > -Original Message- > From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 1:57 PM > To: malmo > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping > > > At 07:14 PM 11/1/2000 -0800, malmo wrote.. > >Ah, there's that rhetorical shield of yours again. Because RC > hasn't seen > >the evidence it doesn't exist. If there is no documentation then > it doesn't > >exist. > > Perhaps I'm being too demanding given the general lack of documentation > about much of anything in Africa. (One colleague has a book about > development economics entitled "Planning with Facts.") However, > my point > is that the claim that East Africans are using EPO to gain most > if not all > of their advantage is simply illogical in the face of the facts about > performances by very young runners in that region. The accusers have to > demonstrate somehow that 16 to 17 year olds in Kenya are getting > EPO while > Europeans and American teenagers with substantially higher disposable > incomes (and a demonstrated greater preponderance of drug use, including > steroids) apparently are not. Just saying "they're just running too damn > fast" is in absolutely no way a legitimate means of making these > accusations. > > As a counterpoint, I will repeat my belief that the Chinese women's > performances in 1993 were enhanced in some manner (a belief which > may have > been confirmed with the recent Chinese drug enforcement actions). > However, > I make that statement based on several logical steps: the performances > involved sudden dramatic improvements; the improvements were for a > relatively large group of athletes within a concentrated period of time; > the WR in at least one event was broken repeatedly over several days by > many athletes; one athlete broke at least 4 WRs (multiple times > in 1 event) > in a 5 day period, none of which have been approached again; even though > the athletes showed excellent performances beforehand (the 1993 WCs), > nothing indicated this level of condition; none of the athletes again > repeated performances at these levels subsequently; the athletes in > question trained together under controlled conditions for an extended > period of time (i.e., years, not weeks); the Chinese government has > substantial resources and good institutional control throughout the > nation. Even the 1997 Chinese performances pale in comparison. > > If those making similar accusations about EPO usage by Africans can > construct a similar line of reasoning, then I'll start listening, > but until > then, they're just blowin' smoke as far as I'm concerned. > > > >I don't believe anyone has ever suggested that either the Kenyan or > >Ethiopian governments has, or even possess the ability or will to > administer > >an American-style doping program. These countries, both known for a long > >history of neglect of its citizenry, prove each year that getting travel > >visas in order is a monumental task. > > > >malmo >
RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping
Dismiss everything that you don't know as a "conspiracy theory". There are many more Willie Browns out there. malmo > -Original Message- > From: Richard McCann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 1:44 PM > To: malmo > Cc: T&FMail List > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping > > > At 12:43 PM 11/2/2000 -0800, malmo wrote: > > To create the wave of performances at such young ages, before > > > these athletes have traveled to Europe where they might gain > > > access to EPO, > > > would require a concerted effort by a well-organized > institution. Unless > > > Nike or Fila is making such an investment, (and I suspect shareholders > > > would question such expenditures, however hidden, in these > > > countries, even > > > if as "market development;" and why not spend similar money in other > > > countries?), there are no other institutions ready and able. > > > > > > > > > Richard McCann > > > > > > > > >Richard, now you're getting warm. Institutional flouting of doping rules. > >It's been done many times before > > > >THINK > > > >malmo > > I am thinking quite clearly. It makes no sense for a > profit-motivated firm > based that derives most of its earnings from sales in the US and > Europe to > devote resources in a two nations with per capita income for less > than $500 > per year and little potential growth in consumer demand. If Nike or Fila > is doing something this absolutely stupid from a management position, and > the auditors are failing to note the large (must be > multi-million) in East > Africa, then Nike stock deserves to plunge even more than it has--and I'm > not making this statement from a moralistic standpoint, but > purely from one > of greed. > > How Nike or Fila might actually be able to overcome the societal barriers > that have stymied every other institution in the world in developing a > coherent organization in these two nations is yet another thought > to consider. > > I don't buy into conspiracy theories because the people at the highest > levels of large institutions that I've encountered simply have not been > competent enough to pull such things off. Willie Brown is the exception > that proves the rule. > > Richard McCann > >
RE: t-and-f: Not EVERYONE is doping
> I am thinking quite clearly. It makes no sense for a > profit-motivated firm > based that derives most of its earnings from sales in the US and > Europe to > devote resources in a two nations with per capita income for less > than $500 > per year and little potential growth in consumer demand. If Nike or Fila > is doing something this absolutely stupid from a management position, and > the auditors are failing to note the large (must be > multi-million) in East > Africa, then Nike stock deserves to plunge even more than it has--and I'm > not making this statement from a moralistic standpoint, but > purely from one > of greed. > > How Nike or Fila might actually be able to overcome the societal barriers > that have stymied every other institution in the world in developing a > coherent organization in these two nations is yet another thought > to consider. > > I don't buy into conspiracy theories because the people at the highest > levels of large institutions that I've encountered simply have not been > competent enough to pull such things off. Willie Brown is the exception > that proves the rule. > > Richard McCann > Richard McCann. malmo. Two people. Two different backgrounds. Two different perspectives. The people that I've encountered are competent enough to pull such things off...and have. malmo
RE: t-and-f: Limits of performance
> > So does anyone have the world best lists for each event by year in > electronic format? > > Richard McCann > > > Here's your link of top ten lists for the last 25 years: http://digilander.iol.it/rzocca/ malmo
RE: t-and-f: Sorry, No Drug Content
Kenya, South Africa, Mexico, China, Italy, Japan and Australia, but no Americans? I wonder where the NYC Marathon sponsors earn revenue? Those countries or the USA? H. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Monti > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 6:28 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Sorry, No Drug Content > > > Track Listers, > > I apologize profusely for not writing anything about drugs. I > realize this > is against the de facto list charter, Article I: Any and all posts should > be about drugs. Discussion of any topics related to actual athletics > events, either past or pending, is prohibited. > > But I'm going to break that rule to mention that one of the truly great > marathons will be running through the streets of my city on > Sunday: the New > York City Marathon. The forecast for Sunday is cool to cold temperatures > and windy. The leading conteners are: > > MEN - > 2 Japhet Kosgei, KEN (2:07:09) First run at NYC > 3 Shem Kororia, KEN (2:09:32) Third last in '99 > 4 Abdelkader El Mouaziz, MAR (2:07:33) 7th in Sydney > 5 Josia Thugwane, RSA (2:07:28) Gold Medal Atlanta '96; 20th in Sydney > 7 Joseph Kahhugu, KEN (2:07:59) 2000 Gold Coast Marathon champion > 9 Simon Bor, KEN (2:08:47) 99 LA Marathon champion > 10 John Kagwe, KEN (2:08:12) 2-time NYC champion > 12 German Silva, MEX (2:08:56) 2-time NYC champion > Defending champion, Joseph Chebet withdrew due to a recent illness which > adversely affected his preparations > > WOMEN - > F1 Adriana Fernandez, MEX (2:24:06) defending champion; 16th in Sydney > F2 Tegla Loroupe, KEN (2:20:43) WB holder; 2-time NYC champion; > 13th in Sydney > F3 Franca Fiacconi, ITA (2:25:17) 98 NYC champion > F5 Margaret Okayo, KEN (2:26:00) 2nd 99 Chicago; DNF 2000 Chicago > F6 Kerryn McCann, AUS (2:25:59) 11th in Sydney > F9 Sun Yingjie, CHN (2:25:45) NYCM debut > F10 Yuko Arimori, JPN (2:26:39) two-time Olympic medalist > F11 Ai Dongmei, CHN (2:27:30) We think she's 21 y/o now :=) > > Winners get US$65,000 + Pontiac Aztek automobile + Vespa scooter; > more money > available from time bonuses > > Course Records: 2:08:01, Juma Ikangaa, TAN, 1989 ($50,000 bonus) > 2:24:40, Lisa Ondieki, AUS, 1992 ($35,000 bonus) > > Start time: 10:50 a.m., Verrazano-Narrows Bridge > > Television: Live local (WNBC-TV); national taped-highlight show (NBC) live > coverage in many other countries > > Internet: http://www.nycmarathon.org for live splits; live race > description > at http://www.runnersworld.com > > Lots of places to watch the race from the streets; a bicycle or running > shoes will allow multiple viewings of the leaders. > > ENDS > > > David Monti, Editor and Publisher, Race Results Weekly > > Sponsored by: > > F I L A R U N N I N G / R U N N E R ' S W O R L D / S A L M I > N I F I L M S > > P.O. Box 8233[EMAIL PROTECTED] > FDR Station +1 212-752-2666 > New York, NY 10150-8233 +1 212-752-2626 (fax) > USA +1 815-461-2285 (secondary fax) > http://www.RaceResultsWeekly.com > >
RE: t-and-f: Just Say Yes!
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 9:14 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Just Say Yes! > > > It has come to our attention that interest in your list is fading > mightily > because of the recent subject matter. Indeed, we hear that people are > actually turning off, tuning out and dropping out. > > Allow us to burgeon your subscribership ranks by signing up! > > Sincerely, > Ben Johnson, Steve Howe, Lawrence Taylor, Hunter S. Thompson, > Timothy Leary, > Zonker Harris, Jeff Spicoli, Bob Marley We knew that you were still lurking. Sincerely, Lyle Alzedo, Jerry Garcia, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, John Candy, John Belushi, Jim Morrison, River Pheonix, Len Bias, Don Simpson, and their families; and the families of: Darryl Strawberry, Mercury Morris, Robert Downey, Jr., Michael Irvin, and millions of others.
t-and-f: NYC Marathon...splits...ohhh, there was a lot of pain!
Place Bib Name TimeSt Country Repr. 1 4 Abdelkhader El Mouaziz 2:10:09 MOROCCO MAR 2 2 Japhet Kosgei 2:12:30 KENYA KEN 3 3 Shem Kororia2:12:33 KENYA KEN 4 14 Elijah Korir2:13:00 KENYA KEN 5 31 Abraham Assefa 2:13:16 ETHIOPIA ETH 6 5 Josia Thugwane 2:15:25 SOUTH AFRICA RSA 7 25 Yasuaki Yamamoto2:15:37 JAPAN JPN 8 9 Simon Bor 2:16:23 KENYA KEN 9 15 Mathias Ntawurikura 2:16:26 RWANDA RWA 10 10 John Kagwe 2:17:02 KENYA KEN 11 20 Koji Shimizu2:18:55 JAPAN JPN 12 29 Shadrack Hoff 2:18:57 SOUTH AFRICA RSA 13 185 Marco Orsi 2:20:09 ITALY ITA 14 12 German Silva2:20:41 MEXICO MEX 15 18 Joseph Mereng 2:20:54 KENYA KEN 16 46 Benedict Kimondiu 2:21:27 KENYA KEN 17 52 Sam Ngatia 2:22:58 KENYA KEN 18 85 Chris Verbeeck 2:23:14 BELGIUM BEL 19 84 Paul Pilkington 2:23:33 UT USA 20 108 Fabien Manzanares 2:23:35 FRANCE FRA Place Bib Name TimeSt Country Repr. 1 4 Abdelkhader El Mouaziz 1:03:08 MOROCCO MAR 2 5 Josia Thugwane 1:03:19 SOUTH AFRICA RSA 3 48 Noah Bor1:03:34 KENYA KEN 4 2 Japhet Kosgei 1:03:34 KENYA KEN 5 17 Benson Mbithi 1:03:34 KENYA KEN 6 29 Shadrack Hoff 1:03:35 SOUTH AFRICA RSA 7 46 Benedict Kimondiu 1:03:35 KENYA KEN 8 9 Simon Bor 1:03:47 KENYA KEN 9 20 Koji Shimizu1:03:47 JAPAN JPN 10 41 Robert Stefko 1:03:53 SLOVAKIA SLV 11 15 Mathias Ntawurikura 1:03:54 RWANDA RWA 12 3 Shem Kororia1:04:05 KENYA KEN 13 18 Joseph Mereng 1:04:06 KENYA KEN 14 45 Jacob Losian1:04:09 KENYA KEN 15 31 Abraham Assefa 1:04:13 ETHIOPIA ETH 16 47 Joseph Kariuki 1:04:13 KENYA KEN 17 63 John Segero 1:04:13 ENGLAND KEN 18 14 Elijah Korir1:04:16 KENYA KEN 19 25 Yasuaki Yamamoto1:04:42 JAPAN JPN 20 43 Daniel Lopes Ferreira 1:04:49 BRAZIL BRA
t-and-f: The History and Future of Kung Fu in America
In 17th and 18th century when Shaolin Kung Fu practice was being codified Masters would exchange information through word-of-mouth at Exhibitions. Exciting time it was. Master Igloi to Master Lee-Diard, many different kind Kung Fu. Eventually best Kung Fu methods rise to top. Much information was exchanged through KUNG FU WORLD in Kansas Monastery in the United States. KUNG FU WORLD have many monks and scribes to make many copy on rice paper. Send writings of Kung Fu Masters all around world. Many Grasshopper read KUNG FU WORLD. Many Grasshopper benefit from writings of KUNG FU WORLD. In 19th century, monks at KUNG FU WORLD become soiled with stain of Western world -- stain of greed...stain of money. Sell KUNG FU WORLD to highest bidder. Many evil monks work at new KUNG FU WORLD. Say "Put our writings on check-out stand at grocery store. Sell to bored American housewife, just like GEISHAPOLITAN." Good plan for pocket, bad plan for soul. One day evil monks say "We need more Yen, find Kung Fu Master to make false writings to sell to grasshopper." One monk ask, "But is this not against teachings of the Kung Fu Masters?" Young monk get banished from KUNG FU WORLD and false prophet Master Ga Lo-Wei now put writings on rice paper. Master Ga Lo-Wei earn credentials from association with Master Shorter. Evil monk Ga Lo-Wei abandon Masters teachings and now teach false Kung Fu. About same time in 19th century more evil monk see much Yen make by selling Kung Fu writings, say "I have better Kung Fu, I have New Kung Fu, I have Exercise Physiology." These new EP monks see new Monastery to exploit for Yen, only now not called "Yen" -- now called "Grant Yen". Monastery system already in place -- American University system. Find gullible sucker with bigger and deeper pockets filled with "Grant Yen" -- the US Government. These new evil EP monks in white coats put Grasshopper on treadmill, put electrode up rectum, have funny mask put on Grasshopper face to steal his breath, to steal his soul. Have Mantis Caliper measure skin, measure fat. Put all information on abacus and make calculation. Evil EP monks in white coats proclaim, "Old way to measure success is no good, these writings of mine on this rice paper is proof! Time is no longer way to measure success, VO2Max is now the new way to measure Kung Fu success." All Kung Fu Master shake head, not understand selfish greed of New Kung Fu, not understand selfish greed of new KUNG FU WORLD. During the mid 19th century and the 20th century evil monks run rampant. Spread their New Kung Fu virus to Grasshoppers across USA. Each year, there are less and less Kung Fu warriors in USA. No more Kung Fu champions. Meanwhile in the rest of the world, monks are teaching old Kung Fu with new EPO Fungus Potion. One day, monk in CERN Monastery invent new way of printing on ethereal rice paper. Another monk in Illinois monastery invent way of reading ethereal rice paper. New way share writings of Kung Fu Masters: World Wide Monastery! Which brings us to 21st century. Use the World Wide Monastery for good Kung Fu. But be careful, the evil EP monks are busy at work, hatching plan to control this World Wide Monastery. Today, I hear, evil monks at New York Kung Fu Monastery want make New York Kung Fu Exhibition the USA National Kung Fu Exhibition. Evil monks at this monastery for many century ignore American Grasshopper. Say, "Kenya Kung Fu is better, Italian Kung Fu is better, Mexican Kung Fu is better." Master Po ask, "How does American Grasshopper get honor at Kung Fu exhibition at home when evil monks in New York Monastery not invite Grasshopper to exhibition?" Why do evil monks now want American Kung Fu Exhibition? Master Po know answer to this riddle: for these evil monks, it has always been "Yen". New Mantis Warrior have top Kung Fu honor walk earth from Morocco Monastery to America. Evil New York monks hatch plan to lure this Warrior to New York Exhibition, then sell TV rights and keep all Yen for evil monastery. All other American grasshopper be damned. Grasshopper of American monasteries must unite and fight the evil monks of the New York Monastery. American Kung Fu Exhibition must go to monastery that have for centuries support for local Kung Fu. New York Monastery must be proscribe until evil monks are routed and monastery show long-term commitment for American Grasshopper. Good shall always prevail over evil. Master Po
RE: t-and-f: $$$$$ not the root of all evil.
A flattened prize distribution like golf would change everything. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of R.T. > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:01 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: $ not the root of all evil. > > > The presence of money, by itself, is not the problem. > But the hugely inequitable distribution of money might be. > There is just too much of a disparity between what is > distributed to a semi-finalist versus what is distributed > to a finalist, and even a worse disparity between what > 1st place gets versus 5th place. > > Granted, higher places should always get more, but not > so much more that it becomes a huge incentive to cheat. > > If the 15th-ranked person in the world can get enough to > live on, and the 1st place person gets no more than 50% > more than what the 15th-place person gets, the sport > would be healthier. > > > RT >
RE: t-and-f: $$$$$ not the root of all evil.
There was plenty of money back then. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:18 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: $ not the root of all evil. > > > I think this thread has a dangerous assumption, that is not true. > "People > run mainly for the money." > Even if we are to accept the cheating, it is about winning. The > money has > come and is coming, but the objective is to win. People cheat to > win in this > sport. In the times of the East German regime, it was about > winning. There > was very little money, especially going to the athlete. > People cheat to win. Money has been a result not a cause. > > The G.O.A.T. >
RE: t-and-f: $$$$$ not the root of all evil.
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of THOMAS,Graham > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 4:08 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: $ not the root of all evil. > > > This just means there would be no-one left running for most third world > countries. Anyone approaching elite status would just take out US (etc) > citizenship.. > Which is exacxtly what happened to the US runners in the past twenty years. If the hundredth best Kenyan can realistically make what would be worth $200,000 US, don't you think that if the 100th best American could earn that much (or much less) their performances would drop dramatically? There are a dozen Bob Kennedys walking the streets here, only they don't run. malmo
RE: t-and-f: Temperature and performance
> -Original Message- > From: P.F.Talbot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:31 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Temperature and performance > > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Are they going to have a sliding scale based on barometric > pressure as well? > > Wasn't it '95 when a huge high pressure system moved in and > basically made > > the conditions in Boulder equal to a sea-level race? I believe Josephat > > Machuka, who was on fire at the time anyway, ran under 28, > almost unheard of > > at altitude (I know John Cheruiyot Korir ran 27:48 on the track > this year at > > the Kenyan Champs). > > sideshow > > The high pressure system theory was quickly debunked when it first came up > in '95. It simply wouldn't have an effective change on the altitude to > make a significant impact. Hogwash. I think that you really meant that it doesn't have a significant change in the atmospheric O2 concentration? High pressure in itself DOES have a significant effect on performance. It brings with it cool, dry air which is always conducive to running fast times. Anyone who lives in the Midwest and East Coast know that a high pressure system blowing in from the Northwest means cool evenings, blue skies and fast times (for distances). You being in Boulder, wouldn't notice it so much as it is always cool and dry in Boulder (Chinook effect). malmo
RE: t-and-f: Temperature and performance
Generally high pressure brings low humidity. Low pressure high humidity. It's the same thing. malmo -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 4:07 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: t-and-f: Temperature and performanceTemperature and humidity would seem to be more appropriate than temperature and barometric pressure. NYCM had a formula in place for Sunday's race where the standards for time incentives would be eased if both the temperature and humidity were at or above predetermined levels when the winner crossed the finish line. Bruce Meyer KUKIMBIA Chicago
RE: FW: t-and-f: Temperature and performance
> [Highfill, Floyd] > Of course I don't know if you were fed a line, I'm only saying > that looking > at results from distances races (say 10K through Marathon) > [Highfill, Floyd] > there did not seem to be any really fast times turned in when temperatures > were in the 40's or 50's. Notable times and PR's seemed to come from > temperatures in the 60's, low 70's, especially in the marathon. However, > temperature readings in many competitions are hard to come by and are just > as suspect as wind readings, and can vary a great deal over the 2-3 hour > period of some longer races. > > Floyd Highfill Floyd, low 70s is way to warm for the marathon. malmo
RE: t-and-f: American Distance Club meeting at NCAA DI Championships
Andrew, I've been locked up in the Shaolin Monastery. Please offer more about this "American Distance Club". Humbly, Master Po > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andrew Gerard > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 1:23 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: American Distance Club meeting at NCAA DI > Championships > > > The American Distance Club announces its Fall Summit meeting to be held in > conjunction with the NCAA Division I Cross Country Championships in Ames, > Iowa. The mission of the ADC is to improve performances of American > distance runners through promotion of discussion and sharing of ideas > between coaches, providing opportunities for development through training > and competition, and create a fellowship in the American middle-distance > and distance community. So far, speakers have included coaches and > athletes such as Said Aouita, Frank Gagliano, Vin Lananna, Mark Wetmore, > Ron Warhurst, Sam Bell, Chick Hislop, Harry Groves, Dave Murray, Martin > Smith and John McDonnell. This meeting will serve as an organizational > meeting focusing on the future direction of the club. The rough > agenda and > meeting information appears below. All current members and new > members are > welcome. > > > American Distance Club > Fall Summit Meeting: > > "Where we are and where we're headed : > A discussion of the direction of the American Distance Club" > Discussion to include: > ® Re-examination of mission statement > ® Election of officers > ® Future meeting topics, times and locations > ® Treasurers' report > > at > The Microtel Inn and Suites > 2216 Southeast 16th Street (Off Hwy 30 - Ph: (515)233-) > 8:30pm to 10:00pm > Saturday, November 18th > > New members welcome > Annual dues are $100, payable at the door. > For additional information, see Andrew Gerard (William and Mary) > or Tim Connelly (Notre Dame) > > Andrew Gerard > Head Men's Track and Field Coach > College of William and Mary > > >
RE: t-and-f: Re:: American Distance Club meeting at NCAA DI Championships
Wayne , I think that you meant "Amateur Sports Act of 1977" and "...what became the TAC" malmo > > > Steve Vaitones wrote: > > > Given the goals of this club, which appear to be more > consistant with post > > collegiate atheletes, why is it being held with a single college > > championship rather than a more general time for coaches of > clubs and all > > collegiate division coaches - a USATF Champ., convention, major > open event? > > > > Don't collegiate programs have this "opportunities for > development through > > training and competition" pretty much established their seasons, the > > calendars of which are pretty much mandated year in and year > out, and the > > real need for this development is at the post collegiate level? > > Is this further fragmentation of the development concept (viz. > USA Running) > > rather than getting everyone in the same room at one time to work on > > achieving a common desired goal? > > Correct me, but my impression is that the fellowship seems to > be among DI > > coaches in particular ( vs. clubs? DII? DIII? ) > > > > Steve Vaitones > > > > You are right, Steve. After the passage of the Amateur Sports > Act in 1978, > NCAA Division I coaches essentially took over the Men's and > Women's Track and > Field and Development Committees of what became USA Track and > Field. At the > Annual Meeting I have seen many people vote in these committees > who are not > members, or even members of USA Track and Field! They apparently > think that > because they are coaches at large universities they should run these > committees. Before, under the old AAU, for all its faults, club > coaches and > directors exercised considerable influence in these committees. As club > coaches and administrators have been almost completely shut out > of the decision > making process, many people with a long history of developing > post collegiate > athletes lost interest and passed from the scene. Thus, our club > system, never > very strong, become even weaker. Opportunities for post > collegiate competition > have decreased as many summer meets disappeared, because the people who > formerly directed them felt unwanted in the sport. > > -- > Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Computomarx > 3604 Grant Ct. > Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA > (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) > http://www.Computomarx.com > "Know the difference between right and wrong... > Always give your best effort... > Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." > - Coach Bill Sudeck > > >
RE: t-and-f: Re:: American Distance Club meeting at NCAA DI Championships
I stand corrected. My army of crooked lawyers demand a recount. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wayne T. Armbrust > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 2:43 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: Re:: American Distance Club meeting at NCAA DI > Championships > > > > > malmo wrote: > > > Wayne , I think that you meant "Amateur Sports Act of 1977" > and "...what > > became the TAC" > > > > malmo > > George, > > I used my as my source the USA Track and Field Directory, admittedly a few > years old. "In 1978 the Amateur Sports Act (36 U.S.C.A. Sec. 371 > et. seq.) > was enacted into federal law." > > I didn't mention TAC because it is the same organization as USA Track & > Field, just a name change. > > -- > Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Computomarx > 3604 Grant Ct. > Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA > (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) > http://www.Computomarx.com > "Know the difference between right and wrong... > Always give your best effort... > Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." > - Coach Bill Sudeck > > >
RE: t-and-f: Competitive Range for Men ... 1500m/Marathon
I think that Dixon ran about 3:33 didn't he? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mcewen, Brian T > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 9:28 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Competitive Range for Men ... 1500m/Marathon > > > Sorted roughly by 1500/mile PR: > > US list: > > Paul CummingsUSA, 2:11? from 198? and 3:56y from 197? > Rudy Chapa USA, 2:11from 1983 and 3:5?y from 1979 > Ken Martin USA, 2:09:38 from 1989 and 3:57.84 from 198?. > George MalleyUSA, 2:11:xx from 1985 and 3:40.xx from 1978 (I think) > Rod DeHaven USA, 2:13:xx from 1999 and 3:40.xx from 1988 (I think) > Greg Meyer USA, 2:09:00 from 1983 and 3:59.1yi from 78. > > Bjorklund (4:05y in HS)? > Sandoval (1:49 800)? > Virgin? > Eyestone? > Todd Williams? > > I think Salazar was at 3:41-2 for 1500m and 4:01.xx for the mile ... but I > think most of the elite American distance men in the 70's and 80's were > probably sub-3:44 or sub-4:02 imperial. > > Global list: > > Geoff SmithGBR, 2:09:18 from 1983 and 3:55.8y from ?? > Rod DixonNZL, 2:08:59 from 1983 and 3:36? from 1975. > Dick Quax NZL, 2:10:59 from 1981 and 3:36? from 1976. > > -Original Message- > From: Post, Marty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 8:34 AM > To: 'Mcewen, Brian T'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Competitive Range for Men ... 1500m/Marathon > > > Looking at a slightly, but not much different event - the one mile instead > of the 1500m - Greg Meyer is the fastest USA marathoner to also break four > minutes. > > He won the '83 Boston Marathon in 2:09:00 and in '78 ran an indoor 3:59.1. > > Ken Martin is the only other American to break 2:10 (2:09:38, NYC '89) and > 4:00 (3:57.84). > > One suspects, however, that during his prime in the early 1980s Alberto > Salazar would have been a good bet to break 4 minutes for the > mile if he had > tried. And perhaps even now Khannouchi could do the same if he trained and > put his mind to it. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Mcewen, Brian T [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 6:18 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: t-and-f: Competitive Range for Men ... 1500m/Marathon > > > > > MEN UNDER 3:42/2:15 > > It depends on where you draw the line for "Elite" men's > performances ... but > if you draw it at something like the cutoff for Peter's female > list, then I > nominate two Americans off the top of my head: > > George MalleyUSA, 2:11:xx from 1985 and 3:40.xx from 1978 (I think) > Rod DeHaven USA, 2:13:xx from 1999 and 3:40.xx from 1988 (I think) > > This list would be more difficult to assemble, due to the many performance > under 3:42 that would not be on very many lists on the internet. (They > would probably only be on the US top-50 lists they used to print in Track > and Field News). There are top-50 US lists on the net ... but > not for very > many years ... as far as I know. > > A global list of men would be very tough to do electronically, as > I imagine > at least a third of the men ever to run 2:10 or faster also have sub-3:42 > 1500's on their resume. > > NOTE: The trend continues, as these two ran their best 1500m long before > their marathon best, which makes sense, unless you are a Chinese woman. >
t-and-f: Control your own destiny.
What's stopping you from cutting yourselves loose? Get proactive, baby! malmo I'm all in favor of USATF > cutting us loose -- along with all our dues-paying members. > > Ken Stone > http://www.masterstrack.com > >
RE: t-and-f: NCAA comment
Master Marcus teaches real Kung Fu at Villanova Monastery. Master Po -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ed GrantSent: Monday, November 20, 2000 8:03 PMTo: track netSubject: t-and-f: NCAA comment Netters: Interesting to note that Villanova, with (except for Sanchez) a group of essentially no-dames led Stanford for the first four runners. Marcus is really doing quite a job there. Ed Grant
RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info
Everyone has the right to tell someone what they should or shouldn't do! They call them opinions. As for "... I know more American fans who relate to km splits than those who don't." Don't try to get one past me, Sonny. That's simply untrue. Keep on runnin' brother. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Casey > Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 9:04 AM > To: malmo > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info > > > Hi Malmo, > I beg to disagree with your "emphatic" statement. Having competed > in the US > for 4 years I know more American fans who relate to km splits > than those who > don't. Admitting that I know only a miniscule minority of American fans it > still negates your statement that American fans do not relate to Kilometer > splits, at least SOME do. > My point is that if mile splits were done away with overnight > and km splits > introduced I have every confidence that the VAST majority of American fans > would have no problem in adapting to them. > With regard to your "emphatic" statement that American fans need > not relate > to km splits, I have no argument with that or with the statement that km > splits "work just fine". > As to your "emphatic" statement that American fans "should not > relate to km > splits" has anyone got the right to tell the American fans what they > should or shouldn't do?? > > Regards > Mike > > -Original Message- > From: malmo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 23 November 2000 16:48 > To: Michael Casey; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info > > > Speaking as an American, Mike, and as one who is fluent in metric > as well as > imperial, I will say EMPHATICALLY: American fans do not, need not, and > should not relate to kilometer splits. Mile splits work just fine. > > You're over-estimating the intelligence of Americans. The "land of Jerry > Springer" does not possess the ability to relate to km splits. > > malmo > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Casey > > Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 7:47 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info > > > > > > Hi Walt, > > The points still remain. I have great faith in the american fans > > ability to > > relate km times to pace. > > > > And I agree with you that final times in crosscountry races are > relatively > > meaningless, but if this is true, so are the split times. > > > > Mike > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: 23 November 2000 15:41 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/23/00 9:32:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > << If thats the case who cares what the split times are? > Also I think > > you > > underestimate the ability of the people in attendance at an > American cross > > country race to relate to km splits. My knowledge of American > > Cross country > > people is that they are very intelligent, and mathematically astute and > > would have NO problem in relating to km splits in metric races and mile > > splits in imperial races. >> > > > > This has nothing to with intelligence...in my opinion, most > American fans > > relate to mile splits (in x-country races) in terms of pace, > rather than a > > projection of a final time. And I would still argue that final times, > > especially in races run in severe conditions, such as those > > present in Ames, > > are relatively meaningless > > > > Unlike races run on the track, it's impossible to compare times from one > > course to another. Times can be historically meaningful when > they occur on > > courses that have a long tradition, such as Mt.SAC and Van > Cortlandt Park. > > > > Walt Murphy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info
Speaking as an American, Mike, and as one who is fluent in metric as well as imperial, I will say EMPHATICALLY: American fans do not, need not, and should not relate to kilometer splits. Mile splits work just fine. You're over-estimating the intelligence of Americans. The "land of Jerry Springer" does not possess the ability to relate to km splits. malmo > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Casey > Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 7:47 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info > > > Hi Walt, > The points still remain. I have great faith in the american fans > ability to > relate km times to pace. > > And I agree with you that final times in crosscountry races are relatively > meaningless, but if this is true, so are the split times. > > Mike > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 23 November 2000 15:41 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info > > > > In a message dated 11/23/00 9:32:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << If thats the case who cares what the split times are? Also I think > you > underestimate the ability of the people in attendance at an American cross > country race to relate to km splits. My knowledge of American > Cross country > people is that they are very intelligent, and mathematically astute and > would have NO problem in relating to km splits in metric races and mile > splits in imperial races. >> > > This has nothing to with intelligence...in my opinion, most American fans > relate to mile splits (in x-country races) in terms of pace, rather than a > projection of a final time. And I would still argue that final times, > especially in races run in severe conditions, such as those > present in Ames, > are relatively meaningless > > Unlike races run on the track, it's impossible to compare times from one > course to another. Times can be historically meaningful when they occur on > courses that have a long tradition, such as Mt.SAC and Van Cortlandt Park. > > Walt Murphy > > > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info
Go out on a one hour run at 3:35 pace. Anyone relate to that? I rest my case. malmo > Come on, [malmo]. The idea that Americans can't relate to metric splits is > absurd. Who doesn't relate to the total time in a metric race? > If you know > that 30:00 is a good time for a 10k cross country race, you will > realize that > 3:00 kilometer splits is the pace that will get you there, even > if you are a > Palm Beach Co. voter. > > -- > Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Computomarx > 3604 Grant Ct. > Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA > (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) > http://www.Computomarx.com > "Know the difference between right and wrong... > Always give your best effort... > Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." > - Coach Bill Sudeck > > >
RE: t-and-f: NCAA XC Splits and Leader Info
Expect nothing less from man who study Kung Fu at CERN Monastery. Master Po > > Funny you should say that Malmo, I do relate to that, in fact this IS my > pace for a 1 hour run! Of course, I'm talking about km pace. If you mean > miles, you're in way, way better shape than I am. > David Dallman > > On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, malmo wrote: > > > Go out on a one hour run at 3:35 pace. Anyone relate to that? I rest my > > case. > > > > malmo > > > > > > > > > Come on, [malmo]. The idea that Americans can't relate to > metric splits > > is > > > absurd. Who doesn't relate to the total time in a metric race? > > > If you know > > > that 30:00 is a good time for a 10k cross country race, you will > > > realize that > > > 3:00 kilometer splits is the pace that will get you there, even > > > if you are a > > > Palm Beach Co. voter. > > > > > > -- > > > Wayne T. Armbrust, Ph.D. > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Computomarx > > > 3604 Grant Ct. > > > Columbia MO 65203-5800 USA > > > (573) 445-6675 (voice & FAX) > > > http://www.Computomarx.com > > > "Know the difference between right and wrong... > > > Always give your best effort... > > > Treat others the way you'd like to be treated..." > > > - Coach Bill Sudeck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Dallman > CERN - SIS > > >
t-and-f: Track & Field News (95 Issues)
Track & Field News (95 Issues) I July 1970 (Volume 23, Number 11) through II June 1971 (Volume 24, Number 10) II July 1972 (Volume 25, Number 10) September 1972 (Volume 25, Number 14) II May 1973 (Volume 26, Number 8) I July 1974 (Volume 27, Number 10) through November 1975 (Volume 28, Number 10) January 1976 (Volume 28, Number 12) through March 1977 (Volume 30, Number 2) May 1977 (Volume 30, Number 4) through April 1978 (Volume 31, Number 3) August 1990 (Volume 43, Number 8) through April 1992 (Volume 45, Number 4) Track Fans, T+FN for sale. I'm sure that they are in excellent condition as the owner makes Felix Unger look like a slob (folds dirty laundry). Contact your m-bayTM representative. malmo "I used to hate obnoxious people, too, until I became their leader."
RE: t-and-f: MJ won't run in next World Championships
It's not the TOPIC of drugs that has "done enough to the sport" -- it's the DRUGS. Leaving it alone IS THE PROBLEM. Stay with it. malmo But the topic of drugs has done > enough to the sport for one year .. Let's leave it alone .. > > Conway Hill > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >
RE: t-and-f: RE: [usatf_assoc] Sacramento WAVA 2005 bid revived
> > > Bill Roe > > WWU Woodring College of Education > > USATF President 2000-2004 > (and still t-and-f list supervisor) > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congrats! It's good to have monks who wear white robes in the USATF Monastery! Master Po
RE: t-and-f: Bee: High hopes for Trials in '04 despite shortfall
The City of Sacto could save money if they didn't waste police officers valuable time on enforcing the no ridiculous cheering rules at the Trials. malmo -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Richard McCannSent: Monday, December 11, 2000 2:07 PMTo: T&FMail ListCc: Don Kopriva; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: t-and-f: Bee: High hopes for Trials in '04 despite shortfallHigh hopes for Trials in '04 despite shortfallBy Sam StantonBee Staff Writer (Published Dec. 10, 2000)Sacramento officials are anxiously awaiting word that the city will host the 2004 U.S. Olympic Track and Field Trials -- even as they try to figure out how they lost $500,000 on the same event last summer. And although there still is no final audit of where the money went or how it will be repaid, organizers of the event have lined up a sizable donation to help fund the next Trials. USA Track & Field officials are expected to announce the site of the 2004 Trials within the next month, officials say. "We're very confident that we're going to get it back," said John McCasey, executive director of the Sacramento Sports Commission and the man who won the 2000 Trials for the city. The commission already has received a promise of financial help for the 2004 Trials from Alex G. Spanos, the Stockton-based developer who gave more than $1 million last year to help purchase a new state-of-the-art track for the event. Spanos' spokeswoman would not reveal how much Spanos has agreed to give in 2004, but sources say he has promised an additional $500,000 to help stage the event and to help with fund raising. "He believes it was one of the best events he was ever involved in, and that it was also great for the region," said spokeswoman Natalia Orfanos. But none of the Spanos money could be used to offset the existing debt, and McCasey still faces questions about the total of $500,000 organizers owe to the city and Sacramento County. City and county officials are discussing a new oversight team to watch over spending if Sacramento wins the next Trials, which determine which American athletes qualify for the U.S. Olympic team. Officials also are discussing whether the city and county both should forgive the $250,000 each is owed. No formal proposal to forgive the debt has been made, and McCasey has said he wants to find a way to repay the debt and will not ask that it be forgiven. Any agreement to forgive the debt would have to be approved by the City Council and the Board of Supervisors. The money is owed to the city and county by the Sacramento Region Sports Education Foundation, or SRSEF, a nonprofit group directed by McCasey and created by the Sports Commission to run sporting events it lures to town. Despite the promise that the Trials could be brought to California State University, Sacramento, last summer without cost to the community, organizers discovered in September that the expense of staging the eight-day event had been much higher than expected. "We were very disappointed, very embarrassed," McCasey said of the discovery. "We really rode the budget hard, but we got to the point where we were at a crossroads." Officials still do not have a final audit, but McCasey and others say last-minute demands from the NBC television network and others led to unexpected costs. Coupled with the knowledge that Sacramento's image was riding on a successful event, organizers say they were left with little room to maneuver in July. "We had to make a decision," McCasey said. "If we screwed this up, it would never come back to Sacramento. Instead, the city hosted what everyone involved said was the most successful U.S. Olympic Track and Field Trials in history, with sellouts each day that brought a record 187,104 spectators to Hornet Field and pumped $20 million into the Sacramento economy. At the same time, however, the budget was hemorrhaging, with $5.5 million in expenses but only $5 million in revenues. "Something that people have a right to receive is an answer as to what happened to the $500,000," said Mark Harris, an attorney and state official who resigned from the SRSEF board and revealed the shortfall. "We've got a situation where there has not been a formal accounting of where that $500,000 went, and I'm troubled that no one seems to be particularly concerned about it," Harris said. He also contends that SRSEF did not do an adequate job of outreach to the minority community or to corporations in the region that could have offered sponsorships. And he said he believed some corporate sponsors were unhappy with what they received for their investments. However, some of the largest contri
RE: t-and-f: How good was a 10.07 100m in 1972.
Germany has long been a hotbed of the > science of > >organic chemistry, and steroid chemistry during the 40s, 50s, > and 60s, when > >most of the steroid dope was developed, is no exception. Scanning the > names > >of the scientists and the institutions on the patents and primary > >publications of the banned steroids reveals a decidedly teutonic flavor. I may be wrong, but my recollection of world history says that post-war Germany was a nation reduced to rubble and abject poverty, where the entire national effort was focused on bricks and mortar, bread and water, not anabolic steroid research. I could be wrong...but...I.K.F.D.I. malmo
RE: t-and-f: How good was a 10.07 100m in 1972.
I believe he will be the first ever regular sub10.00 athletes > of non-african ancestry. > > regards > Steve Bennett > http://www.oztrack.com > > Some of us purists still believe we're ALL of African ancestry. malmo
t-and-f: Rulon Gardner?
EARTH TO DARREL THE BIGGEST STORY OF THE GOSH-FREAKIN-DARN SYDNEY GAMES malmo PS There are no drugs in Track and Field, it's all rumor and innuendo, you can't prove nothin because Immm nt liiss-ttteeeing! ;-o -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 9:48 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: t-and-f: (no subject)Armstrong had eight first-place votes and 72 points, while St. Louis Rams quarterback Kurt Warner was third with 34 points. Points were awarded on a 3-2-1 basis. Rounding out the top 10 were Pedro Martinez, Shaquille O'Neal, Rulon Gardner, Jason Giambi, Derek Jeter, Josh Heupel and Marshall Faulk. This is a clip from a story in the LA Times about the AP award, awarded to Tiger Woods. These are the runner ups. In the year of the Olympic Games I see not one Olympic athlete. Who is Rulon Gardner? Josh Heupel makes the list? Amazing. DGS The G.O.A.T.
