Re: speaking of Dell computers...
I just purchased a Dell desktop and it came with a keyboard as you described. I contacted their tech support and they said that Dell had a study and that no one used the num lock key anymore. I guess they did not include screen reader users. I just purchased a new keyboard with a num lock on it. - Original Message - From: "Carol and Roger via Talk" To: "Window-Eyes Discussion List" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:13 PM Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/loyrg2845%40gmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. give it a try. don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Same thing happened to me about 6 weeks ago. Apparently Dell has been shipping this type of keyboard for a couple of years; there are complaints in the Dell community forum about it. For some people the computer was left in the numlock On state like mine was, and for other customers it was left in the numlock Off state and they wanted it on. I'm not sure whether this can be fixed in the BIOS. My solution was to abandon that keyboard and use an older USB keyboard I already had. I call this the numb lock problem! Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
A couple of years? That's interesting. I bought an Inspiron laptop with a numeric keypad exactly one year ago last week, and it has a numlock key on it. I'm sure glad I didn't get burned by that one. Evan -Original Message- From: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:07 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing happened to me about 6 weeks ago. Apparently Dell has been shipping this type of keyboard for a couple of years; there are complaints in the Dell community forum about it. For some people the computer was left in the numlock On state like mine was, and for other customers it was left in the numlock Off state and they wanted it on. I'm not sure whether this can be fixed in the BIOS. My solution was to abandon that keyboard and use an older USB keyboard I already had. I call this the numb lock problem! Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/mentat1%40dslextreme.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Seems like everything is getting smaller, shorter, Thinner, and often missing something, that once was part of the item. In this case, someone has decided to lower the cost of manufacturing, by removing a Key or two, or three. This time it is the Num Lock key, and it is probably true, that few ever use it. Just proving, you can't really assume much of anything these days. After a while, a person just gets tired of always having to double and triple check everything. At 06:12 PM 4/23/2015, you wrote: demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. give it a try. don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/davidh1999%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Why not just use autohotkey to define one of the keys to perform this function. I just bought an hp laptop not to long ago. It does not have an aplacation key. I simply defined the right alt to perform this function. Yes Also if you go in to the bios you will need sighted help for this you can define the numlock state there. There are also utility programs that will perform this task for you turning off the numlock. Jaws for example has a setting that will define the state of numlock as it is started. Perhaps the window-eyes team should consider providing a app or building in to window-eyes it self a feature that will define the state of numlock when window-eyes is started. Hth -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+jgrimsby=roadrunner@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:08 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing happened to me about 6 weeks ago. Apparently Dell has been shipping this type of keyboard for a couple of years; there are complaints in the Dell community forum about it. For some people the computer was left in the numlock On state like mine was, and for other customers it was left in the numlock Off state and they wanted it on. I'm not sure whether this can be fixed in the BIOS. My solution was to abandon that keyboard and use an older USB keyboard I already had. I call this the numb lock problem! Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet .com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jgrimsby%40roa drunner.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi Carol, I could send you a Window-Eyes app which allows you to define a hotkey to toggle the NumLock. Hth, Rod -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/rod_hutton%40h otmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
I believe all current Dell Keyboards don't have a num lock any more. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Friday, 24 April 2015 9:13 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/debbiey1982%40 optusnet.com.au. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
dell desktop computers that come with a dell computer have a num lock key. i just bought one. it works great. - Original Message - From: "Debbie April Yuille via Talk" To: "'Carol and Roger'" ; "'Window-Eyes Discussion List'" Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:58 AM Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I believe all current Dell Keyboards don't have a num lock any more. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Friday, 24 April 2015 9:13 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/debbiey1982%40 optusnet.com.au. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/mrdvd%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Wow, I had no idea keyboards were changing in this way. I can tell you that AI Squared does sell keyboards with both an applications key as well as a numlock key. It's really designed for Zoomtext users as it has an extra set of keys to control ZT functions such as toggling color enhancements, magnification increase/decrease, voice rate, etc. It's a large print keyboard (with normal sized keys.) My employer bought a few of them for the computer lab where I teach and, while I'm really a screen reader user, I began using them for general use and really liked the feel of the keys. They're a bit pricey but I suppose the justification is that it comes with extra ZT keys along with software which I believe is used to modify the function of those extra keys. Now that AI Squared is offering Window-Eyes it would be kind of nice to allow that keyboard to control Window-Eyes functions as well. Feel free to visit my Web site http://www.davidgoldfield.info David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist On 4/24/2015 6:25 AM, Rick Thomas via Talk wrote: Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/david.goldfield%40outlook.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
May be that he has to use the FN-key, along with the F-keys. For instance, n-F12. Have a pair of eyes check the keyboard, or let him call the place where he bought the computer, even the manufacturers customer line, and ask for assistance. David On 4/24/2015 1:13 AM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote: My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
If you have no applications key, shift-F10 should still work. Inconvenient, but it would work. In the case of the Dell keyboard I had, I tried all the combinations I could think of, and the key in the position of the Numlock key remained a delete key in all cases. I could shift the numpad keys and get most of them to act like non-numeric keys, but this wasn't acceptable. I think Dell's rationale is that financial types would like to have a delete key on their numeric pads, so Dell repurposed the numlock key for this use. I didn't call Dell customer support, either, because sighted people who had had trouble with this never got any satisfaction. A couple of them got replacement keyboards from Dell which had the same issue. After about 50 Dell Community forum messages, one person mentioned that this was a problem for JAWS users. But I think Dell has gotten too big for the right hand to know what the left hand has done, or why. The advantage of getting this business-oriented computer from MicroCenter instead of Best Buy was that I could get it with Windows 7 and not be stuck with 8.1. It needed more than a hundred patches from Windows Update when I hooked it up, but it works well. And so far I am happy with a keyboard I obtained for my 2005 Dell XP computer. Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:55 AM To: Carol and Roger ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... May be that he has to use the FN-key, along with the F-keys. For instance, n-F12. Have a pair of eyes check the keyboard, or let him call the place where he bought the computer, even the manufacturers customer line, and ask for assistance. David On 4/24/2015 1:13 AM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote: My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Not all do, the one supplied with mine had no num lock key. You must have order an upgraded one? - Original Message - From: "Les Gordon via Talk" To: "Debbie April Yuille" ; "Window-Eyes Discussion List" Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:32 AM Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... dell desktop computers that come with a dell computer have a num lock key. i just bought one. it works great. - Original Message - From: "Debbie April Yuille via Talk" To: "'Carol and Roger'" ; "'Window-Eyes Discussion List'" Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:58 AM Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I believe all current Dell Keyboards don't have a num lock any more. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Friday, 24 April 2015 9:13 AM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/debbiey1982%40 optusnet.com.au. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/mrdvd%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/loyrg2845%40gmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40aisquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hello Chris I've googled that very thing with Logitech keyboards and Applications Keys. I found that on some Logitech keyboards, including the K800 (which I'm using), pressing the FN key plus the Print screen key which is to the right of the f12 key, performs the same function as the applications key. Hope that helps Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, 24 April 2015 11:43 PM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40a isquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/debbiey1982%40 optusnet.com.au. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
welll, shift plus f10 will also do the same. Legend has it that on Friday 4/24/2015 08:54 AM, Debbie April Yuille via Talk said: Hello Chris I've googled that very thing with Logitech keyboards and Applications Keys. I found that on some Logitech keyboards, including the K800 (which I'm using), pressing the FN key plus the Print screen key which is to the right of the f12 key, performs the same function as the applications key. Hope that helps Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, 24 April 2015 11:43 PM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40a isquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/debbiey1982%40 optusnet.com.au. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/northstar1950%40okiespirit.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com <http://www.sendspace.com/folder/i7xwg4>Click here to check out my sendspace offerings! ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
I don't see what the big deal is. I just checked and Amazon carries some from $10 on up. On 4/24/2015 6:16 AM, David Goldfield via Talk wrote: Wow, I had no idea keyboards were changing in this way. I can tell you that AI Squared does sell keyboards with both an applications key as well as a numlock key. It's really designed for Zoomtext users as it has an extra set of keys to control ZT functions such as toggling color enhancements, magnification increase/decrease, voice rate, etc. It's a large print keyboard (with normal sized keys.) My employer bought a few of them for the computer lab where I teach and, while I'm really a screen reader user, I began using them for general use and really liked the feel of the keys. They're a bit pricey but I suppose the justification is that it comes with extra ZT keys along with software which I believe is used to modify the function of those extra keys. Now that AI Squared is offering Window-Eyes it would be kind of nice to allow that keyboard to control Window-Eyes functions as well. Feel free to visit my Web site http://www.davidgoldfield.info David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist On 4/24/2015 6:25 AM, Rick Thomas via Talk wrote: Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/david.goldfield%40outlook.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jutzi%40windstream.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi Chris, I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it doesn't have an applications key. Les -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40a isquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/kriegler%40nyc ap.rr.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
That's very true. It makes another thing that we have to add to the list of what we check when we buy a computer: whether the keyboard has the right keys, all of them! Also, where they are on the keyboard! Ugh! Pam. -Original Message- From: Dave via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:31 PM To: net bat ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Seems like everything is getting smaller, shorter, Thinner, and often missing something, that once was part of the item. In this case, someone has decided to lower the cost of manufacturing, by removing a Key or two, or three. This time it is the Num Lock key, and it is probably true, that few ever use it. Just proving, you can't really assume much of anything these days. After a while, a person just gets tired of always having to double and triple check everything. At 06:12 PM 4/23/2015, you wrote: demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. give it a try. don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/davidh1999%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40optonline.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
i can do without the application key but not the numlock key . i never use it because shift f10 is so much easier to find and use. i kept pressing the wrong key when trying to find that application key i went back to the shift f10 i have used for the last 30 years. -Original Message- From: Les Kriegler via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 8:07 AM To: 'Chris Grabowski' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi Chris, I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it doesn't have an applications key. Les -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40a isquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/kriegler%40nyc ap.rr.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options,
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
I guess that's what makes the world turn around, as my husband used to say: difference. I have never used the shift f10 for an applications key, because all computers where I would have needed an applications key on the keyboard, had them. I guess since you learned shift f10 first, that made the applications key harder to remember. Pam. -Original Message- From: net bat via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:16 PM To: Les Kriegler ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... i can do without the application key but not the numlock key . i never use it because shift f10 is so much easier to find and use. i kept pressing the wrong key when trying to find that application key i went back to the shift f10 i have used for the last 30 years. -Original Message- From: Les Kriegler via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 8:07 AM To: 'Chris Grabowski' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi Chris, I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it doesn't have an applications key. Les -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40a isquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/kriegler%40nyc ap.rr.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Well I started in windows 95 with a 101 keyboard. It did not have a windows key or an application's key. in fact it was a upgrade from windows 3.1. when I finely got a 104 keyboard you can believe I used all the new keys right away. One key to perform a task verces two. And two in a rather odd finguring location. As I said before if you are missing key you can always remap other key to perform task. AutoHotKey is a very useful utility. You can use it to remap keys. You can also use it to allow you to make short cuts to start programs. For example alt+windows+w starts window-eyes on my system. I have a lot of quick short cuts. The cool thing is also you can make your short cut script in to an exe file and take it with you to what ever computer you are working with.it is also free so no need to spend any money on a keyboard. Hth -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+jgrimsby=roadrunner@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 11:46 AM To: net bat; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... I guess that's what makes the world turn around, as my husband used to say: difference. I have never used the shift f10 for an applications key, because all computers where I would have needed an applications key on the keyboard, had them. I guess since you learned shift f10 first, that made the applications key harder to remember. Pam. -Original Message- From: net bat via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:16 PM To: Les Kriegler ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... i can do without the application key but not the numlock key . i never use it because shift f10 is so much easier to find and use. i kept pressing the wrong key when trying to find that application key i went back to the shift f10 i have used for the last 30 years. -Original Message- From: Les Kriegler via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 8:07 AM To: 'Chris Grabowski' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi Chris, I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it doesn't have an applications key. Les -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do no
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Yes it does, right control and right alt. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Les Kriegler via Talk Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2015 1:07 AM To: 'Chris Grabowski'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi Chris, I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it doesn't have an applications key. Les -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40a isquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/kriegler%40nyc ap.rr.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/debbiey1982%40 optusnet.com.au. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi, When buying a keyboard this is something you have had to check for years. Does it use a function key. That changes the function of the function keys to media commands or to launch other programs. The location of the arrow keys no there is no standard for this. Does the keyboard use intellasense drivers that can perform things like auto correction and short cuts. These can quite often cause issues for screen reader. Of course the subject at hand does it have a numlock aplacations key etc. this is nothing new we have had to check these things for years. Not sure why all the fuss now because nothing has really changed here. Hth -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+jgrimsby=roadrunner@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:38 AM To: Dave; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... That's very true. It makes another thing that we have to add to the list of what we check when we buy a computer: whether the keyboard has the right keys, all of them! Also, where they are on the keyboard! Ugh! Pam. -Original Message- From: Dave via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:31 PM To: net bat ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Seems like everything is getting smaller, shorter, Thinner, and often missing something, that once was part of the item. In this case, someone has decided to lower the cost of manufacturing, by removing a Key or two, or three. This time it is the Num Lock key, and it is probably true, that few ever use it. Just proving, you can't really assume much of anything these days. After a while, a person just gets tired of always having to double and triple check everything. At 06:12 PM 4/23/2015, you wrote: >demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num >lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. >give it a try. >don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. > >-Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk >Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:13 PM >To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >Subject: speaking of Dell computers... > >My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. >At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete >key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this >list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? >Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? >Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about >his system except that it is running Windows 7. > >Carol > > >___ >Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > >For membership options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40comc ast.net. >For subscription options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >List archives can be found at >http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >___ >Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > >For membership options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/davidh1999%40 comcast.net. >For subscription options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >List archives can be found at >http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40opton line.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jgrimsby%40roa drunner.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership optio
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi: I did not know about checking drivers and all that jazz. I always just purchassed a computer, plugged it and it ran. I did have to buy 2 or 3 keyboards to get my new Dell to work with WindowEyes - no num lock on one and no applications key on the other but then I learned of the shift-f10 key, got one with a num lock key and was a happy camper but never had any idea of driver incompatibilities with WindowEyes. Perhaps WindowEyes should produce a annual list of keyboards that work with their product if this is the case. I don't know from drivers so wouldn't even know how to figure out which drivers would work with WindowEyes and which ones wouldn't work and wouldn't know what to ask some usually ill informed desk clerk at some major manufacture to find out if their drivers would work with WindowEyes and they wouldn't have a clue anyway. When I buy a product like WindowEyes I have to assume they handle the interface to hardware on which their product is most likely to be used. And, if there are any gotch-yas WindowEyes should have a list of alternatives for their clients - not hope their clients know enough about hardware and drivers to pick some particular combination from the general descriptions provided on most hardware vendors sites. In fact, buying from a large manufacturer and trying to find out if their keyboards include certain keys is tough enough but asking some desk clerk if a driver will work with some really obscure piece of software like WindowEyes and they wont have a clue and neither will their tech staff - I have delt with them often enough to know this is the case 99 percent of the time for questions of that type. Exactly how do you determine which dell drivers or other major vendor drivers will work properly with WindowEyes, is there a list someplace? This also applies to the audio drivers and now, I guess, the keyboard drivers so how do you do it? I want to plug in my computer, install the product and have it work and that is what any product needs to do or the product is doomed to go extinct. Rick USA -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail=mi.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Jim Grimsby JR. via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 5:21 AM To: 'Pamela Dominguez'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi, When buying a keyboard this is something you have had to check for years. Does it use a function key. That changes the function of the function keys to media commands or to launch other programs. The location of the arrow keys no there is no standard for this. Does the keyboard use intellasense drivers that can perform things like auto correction and short cuts. These can quite often cause issues for screen reader. Of course the subject at hand does it have a numlock aplacations key etc. this is nothing new we have had to check these things for years. Not sure why all the fuss now because nothing has really changed here. Hth -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+jgrimsby=roadrunner@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:38 AM To: Dave; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... That's very true. It makes another thing that we have to add to the list of what we check when we buy a computer: whether the keyboard has the right keys, all of them! Also, where they are on the keyboard! Ugh! Pam. -Original Message- From: Dave via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:31 PM To: net bat ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Seems like everything is getting smaller, shorter, Thinner, and often missing something, that once was part of the item. In this case, someone has decided to lower the cost of manufacturing, by removing a Key or two, or three. This time it is the Num Lock key, and it is probably true, that few ever use it. Just proving, you can't really assume much of anything these days. After a while, a person just gets tired of always having to double and triple check everything. At 06:12 PM 4/23/2015, you wrote: >demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num >lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. >give it a try. >don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. > >-Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk >Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:13 PM >To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >Subject: speaking of Dell computers... > >My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. >At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete >key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this >list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? >Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? >
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Good morning Rick, I don't know if the following suggestions will help, Try calling del and ask someone their if they would be interested in do a screen share with you on your computer. or you might want to call the Microsoft support help desk. They can also do what's called a screen sharing session. -Original Message- From: Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 5:50 AM To: 'Jim Grimsby JR.' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi: I did not know about checking drivers and all that jazz. I always just purchassed a computer, plugged it and it ran. I did have to buy 2 or 3 keyboards to get my new Dell to work with WindowEyes - no num lock on one and no applications key on the other but then I learned of the shift-f10 key, got one with a num lock key and was a happy camper but never had any idea of driver incompatibilities with WindowEyes. Perhaps WindowEyes should produce a annual list of keyboards that work with their product if this is the case. I don't know from drivers so wouldn't even know how to figure out which drivers would work with WindowEyes and which ones wouldn't work and wouldn't know what to ask some usually ill informed desk clerk at some major manufacture to find out if their drivers would work with WindowEyes and they wouldn't have a clue anyway. When I buy a product like WindowEyes I have to assume they handle the interface to hardware on which their product is most likely to be used. And, if there are any gotch-yas WindowEyes should have a list of alternatives for their clients - not hope their clients know enough about hardware and drivers to pick some particular combination from the general descriptions provided on most hardware vendors sites. In fact, buying from a large manufacturer and trying to find out if their keyboards include certain keys is tough enough but asking some desk clerk if a driver will work with some really obscure piece of software like WindowEyes and they wont have a clue and neither will their tech staff - I have delt with them often enough to know this is the case 99 percent of the time for questions of that type. Exactly how do you determine which dell drivers or other major vendor drivers will work properly with WindowEyes, is there a list someplace? This also applies to the audio drivers and now, I guess, the keyboard drivers so how do you do it? I want to plug in my computer, install the product and have it work and that is what any product needs to do or the product is doomed to go extinct. Rick USA -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail=mi.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Jim Grimsby JR. via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 5:21 AM To: 'Pamela Dominguez'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi, When buying a keyboard this is something you have had to check for years. Does it use a function key. That changes the function of the function keys to media commands or to launch other programs. The location of the arrow keys no there is no standard for this. Does the keyboard use intellasense drivers that can perform things like auto correction and short cuts. These can quite often cause issues for screen reader. Of course the subject at hand does it have a numlock aplacations key etc. this is nothing new we have had to check these things for years. Not sure why all the fuss now because nothing has really changed here. Hth -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+jgrimsby=roadrunner@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:38 AM To: Dave; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... That's very true. It makes another thing that we have to add to the list of what we check when we buy a computer: whether the keyboard has the right keys, all of them! Also, where they are on the keyboard! Ugh! Pam. -Original Message- From: Dave via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:31 PM To: net bat ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Seems like everything is getting smaller, shorter, Thinner, and often missing something, that once was part of the item. In this case, someone has decided to lower the cost of manufacturing, by removing a Key or two, or three. This time it is the Num Lock key, and it is probably true, that few ever use it. Just proving, you can't really assume much of anything these days. After a while, a person just gets tired of always having to double and triple check everything. At 06:12 PM 4/23/2015, you wrote: demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. give it a try. don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk S
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Do you mean you press the right control and right alt together to make the applications menu happen? Pam. -Original Message- From: Debbie April Yuille via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 3:04 AM To: 'Les Kriegler' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Yes it does, right control and right alt. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Les Kriegler via Talk Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2015 1:07 AM To: 'Chris Grabowski'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi Chris, I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it doesn't have an applications key. Les -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40a isquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/kriegler%40nyc ap.rr.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/debbiey1982%40 optusnet.com.au. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author a
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
hmmm, that must be something incoded in to his keyboard because right alt+right ctrl doesn't do anything here on my system. shift plus f10 has always worked though. Legend has it that on Saturday 4/25/2015 10:39 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk said: Do you mean you press the right control and right alt together to make the applications menu happen? Pam. -Original Message- From: Debbie April Yuille via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 3:04 AM To: 'Les Kriegler' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Yes it does, right control and right alt. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Les Kriegler via Talk Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2015 1:07 AM To: 'Chris Grabowski'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi Chris, I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it doesn't have an applications key. Les -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and an applications key. Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. Chris Window-Eyes Product Support Ai Squared 725 Airport North Office Park Fort Wayne, IN 46825 (802) 362-3612 www.aisquared.com -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Same thing here: My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications keys. My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 percent of their base client requirements. That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a buck for coffee. I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at least, he did find one, at least for now. It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the time. I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me thinks. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40a isquared.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/kriegler%40nyc ap.rr.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/debbiey1982%40 optusnet.com.au. For subscript
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
I never heard of driver incompatability with window eyes, either. My brother used to tell me you had to have a certain keyboard with a certain computer, and couldn't just go buy a replacement, but that was my brother's ancient information, and he told me that about fifteen years ago. At the time, it was windows 98. Pam. -Original Message- From: via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 7:59 AM To: Rick Thomas ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Good morning Rick, I don't know if the following suggestions will help, Try calling del and ask someone their if they would be interested in do a screen share with you on your computer. or you might want to call the Microsoft support help desk. They can also do what's called a screen sharing session. -Original Message- From: Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 5:50 AM To: 'Jim Grimsby JR.' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi: I did not know about checking drivers and all that jazz. I always just purchassed a computer, plugged it and it ran. I did have to buy 2 or 3 keyboards to get my new Dell to work with WindowEyes - no num lock on one and no applications key on the other but then I learned of the shift-f10 key, got one with a num lock key and was a happy camper but never had any idea of driver incompatibilities with WindowEyes. Perhaps WindowEyes should produce a annual list of keyboards that work with their product if this is the case. I don't know from drivers so wouldn't even know how to figure out which drivers would work with WindowEyes and which ones wouldn't work and wouldn't know what to ask some usually ill informed desk clerk at some major manufacture to find out if their drivers would work with WindowEyes and they wouldn't have a clue anyway. When I buy a product like WindowEyes I have to assume they handle the interface to hardware on which their product is most likely to be used. And, if there are any gotch-yas WindowEyes should have a list of alternatives for their clients - not hope their clients know enough about hardware and drivers to pick some particular combination from the general descriptions provided on most hardware vendors sites. In fact, buying from a large manufacturer and trying to find out if their keyboards include certain keys is tough enough but asking some desk clerk if a driver will work with some really obscure piece of software like WindowEyes and they wont have a clue and neither will their tech staff - I have delt with them often enough to know this is the case 99 percent of the time for questions of that type. Exactly how do you determine which dell drivers or other major vendor drivers will work properly with WindowEyes, is there a list someplace? This also applies to the audio drivers and now, I guess, the keyboard drivers so how do you do it? I want to plug in my computer, install the product and have it work and that is what any product needs to do or the product is doomed to go extinct. Rick USA -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail=mi.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Jim Grimsby JR. via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 5:21 AM To: 'Pamela Dominguez'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi, When buying a keyboard this is something you have had to check for years. Does it use a function key. That changes the function of the function keys to media commands or to launch other programs. The location of the arrow keys no there is no standard for this. Does the keyboard use intellasense drivers that can perform things like auto correction and short cuts. These can quite often cause issues for screen reader. Of course the subject at hand does it have a numlock aplacations key etc. this is nothing new we have had to check these things for years. Not sure why all the fuss now because nothing has really changed here. Hth -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+jgrimsby=roadrunner@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:38 AM To: Dave; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... That's very true. It makes another thing that we have to add to the list of what we check when we buy a computer: whether the keyboard has the right keys, all of them! Also, where they are on the keyboard! Ugh! Pam. -Original Message- From: Dave via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:31 PM To: net bat ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Seems like everything is getting smaller, shorter, Thinner, and often missing something, that once was part of the item. In this case, someone has decided to lower the cost of manufacturing, by removing a Key or two, or three. This time it is the Num Lock key,
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
this is definitely something new because keyboards (for the most part) have been pretty standard. Now there's several issues of which have not even been addressed on this topic yet. For one thing, keyboards that don't have the numlock key also usually don't have the printscreen key, scroll lock key and pause keys which are also in that same group of keys right above the numpad. The numpad keys are not even the same i.e. if you go into key describer mode and press each key on the numpad the basic keys are there, but then the delete key is a period and some other keys are not the same as well. So, even if there was a numlock key, I'm not sure if those other keys on the numpad would behave differently with Window-eyes. Lastly, becareful when you say the shift+F10 is just the same as the context key. That's not always the case. You may get different context menus according to whether the shift+F10 was pressed, or the context key was pressed. some times the only way to bring up a menu or something is with the context key because shift+F10 will not do it or is programmed to do something else. --Steve ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
The other thing is, context key is not the same as the right click on the number pad. Lots of times, you get the same menu, but sometimes, you don't. Also, if they changed the whole row where the numlock is, does that mean that they changed the left and right click keys? Pam. -Original Message- From: Stephen Clark via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 2:35 PM To: Jim Grimsby JR. ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... this is definitely something new because keyboards (for the most part) have been pretty standard. Now there's several issues of which have not even been addressed on this topic yet. For one thing, keyboards that don't have the numlock key also usually don't have the printscreen key, scroll lock key and pause keys which are also in that same group of keys right above the numpad. The numpad keys are not even the same i.e. if you go into key describer mode and press each key on the numpad the basic keys are there, but then the delete key is a period and some other keys are not the same as well. So, even if there was a numlock key, I'm not sure if those other keys on the numpad would behave differently with Window-eyes. Lastly, becareful when you say the shift+F10 is just the same as the context key. That's not always the case. You may get different context menus according to whether the shift+F10 was pressed, or the context key was pressed. some times the only way to bring up a menu or something is with the context key because shift+F10 will not do it or is programmed to do something else. --Steve ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40optonline.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi Steve: It is incumbent on a piece of software to work with a given platform including operating systems and, in the case of a screen reader, the keyboard which is the primary interface for their clients and the only thing they have to use the features of the software. A simple list of manufacturers and hardware that works well with WindowEyes might be the easiest and least costly solution. Also, a list of settings for various other gotchyas like audio cards should also be available for the more common choices a WindowEyes client may make. This needs to be available on a WebPage and not burried in some technical, or many technical, articles requiring a long search effort by a new user and available before a user buys a new machine with the intent of using WindowEyes on it. Just a part of having a professional piece of software and considering the target audience. Another choice would be to act as a ReSeller of compatible hardware and software products but I can see AI Squared selling at a much higher markup than other standard retailers and thus things costing us more. I give up. I don't run that company, am not in their management team nor do I sit on the Board so any further comments might be beetching the whale and I will just drop this thread and go listen to Red Wing Hockey and Ken and Paul call the game - smile. Later and have a good weekend! Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi Steve, When you refer to the context key, you are, I think, referring to the Applications key, which is often, but not always, located to the left of the right Alt key on a 101' or 104-key desktop keyboard. Is this what you're saying? Thanks, Rod -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Clark via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 2:35 PM To: Jim Grimsby JR.; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... this is definitely something new because keyboards (for the most part) have been pretty standard. Now there's several issues of which have not even been addressed on this topic yet. For one thing, keyboards that don't have the numlock key also usually don't have the printscreen key, scroll lock key and pause keys which are also in that same group of keys right above the numpad. The numpad keys are not even the same i.e. if you go into key describer mode and press each key on the numpad the basic keys are there, but then the delete key is a period and some other keys are not the same as well. So, even if there was a numlock key, I'm not sure if those other keys on the numpad would behave differently with Window-eyes. Lastly, becareful when you say the shift+F10 is just the same as the context key. That's not always the case. You may get different context menus according to whether the shift+F10 was pressed, or the context key was pressed. some times the only way to bring up a menu or something is with the context key because shift+F10 will not do it or is programmed to do something else. --Steve ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/rod_hutton%40h otmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi. The context/application key has usually been between the right control key and the right start/Windows key. So on the keyboard the keys at the right end of the spacebar are the right alt, right start/windows, context/application and the right control. On 4/25/2015 5:38 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote: Hi Steve, When you refer to the context key, you are, I think, referring to the Applications key, which is often, but not always, located to the left of the right Alt key on a 101' or 104-key desktop keyboard. Is this what you're saying? Thanks, Rod -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Clark via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 2:35 PM To: Jim Grimsby JR.; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... this is definitely something new because keyboards (for the most part) have been pretty standard. Now there's several issues of which have not even been addressed on this topic yet. For one thing, keyboards that don't have the numlock key also usually don't have the printscreen key, scroll lock key and pause keys which are also in that same group of keys right above the numpad. The numpad keys are not even the same i.e. if you go into key describer mode and press each key on the numpad the basic keys are there, but then the delete key is a period and some other keys are not the same as well. So, even if there was a numlock key, I'm not sure if those other keys on the numpad would behave differently with Window-eyes. Lastly, becareful when you say the shift+F10 is just the same as the context key. That's not always the case. You may get different context menus according to whether the shift+F10 was pressed, or the context key was pressed. some times the only way to bring up a menu or something is with the context key because shift+F10 will not do it or is programmed to do something else. --Steve ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/rod_hutton%40h otmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/mcommerford%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hello Rick: I understand your frustration. It is amazing the number of posts dedicated to this subject. Yet, I did not see this topic mentioned during any of the Version 9 beta testing, despite the fact that Dell eliminated this key as far back as 2012. As a developer, I understand the difficulty of keeping up with hardware changes. Some computer vendors change their hardware platform more frequently than some people change their underware! A company this size of AI Squared (and GW Micro cannot possibly keep up with the plethora of computer vendors and their offers. In addition, vendors like Dell offer several keyboard choices when purchasing their computers. It is quite possible that AI Squared was not aware of this problem until this flurry of postings. We should give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that they can provide some update that deals with the situation. In the mean time, there are several workarounds to consider. Gor those upgradiong from an older computer, using the keyboard from the previous computer should suffice. If a static setting is desired, BIOS or registry setting should be sufficient. And if toggling is needed, the on screen keyboard provided in the accessability options will work, albeit kludgy. At least you have a hockey game to listen to. Here in the Northeast, the Bruins taked at the end of the season and eliminated themselves from the playoffs. Rick Blair -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+softwarethatworks=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 6:00 PM To: 'Stephen Clark'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hi Steve: It is incumbent on a piece of software to work with a given platform including operating systems and, in the case of a screen reader, the keyboard which is the primary interface for their clients and the only thing they have to use the features of the software. A simple list of manufacturers and hardware that works well with WindowEyes might be the easiest and least costly solution. Also, a list of settings for various other gotchyas like audio cards should also be available for the more common choices a WindowEyes client may make. This needs to be available on a WebPage and not burried in some technical, or many technical, articles requiring a long search effort by a new user and available before a user buys a new machine with the intent of using WindowEyes on it. Just a part of having a professional piece of software and considering the target audience. Another choice would be to act as a ReSeller of compatible hardware and software products but I can see AI Squared selling at a much higher markup than other standard retailers and thus things costing us more. I give up. I don't run that company, am not in their management team nor do I sit on the Board so any further comments might be beetching the whale and I will just drop this thread and go listen to Red Wing Hockey and Ken and Paul call the game - smile. Later and have a good weekend! Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/softwarethatwo rks%40gmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: speaking of Dell computers...
I have owned Dell computers since 1994, and have found their customer service folks to be more than reasonable. I am sure that if you made them aware of your situation, they would accommodate you. Andy -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+andrew.baracco=va@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of net bat via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 6:12 PM To: Carol and Roger; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: speaking of Dell computers... demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. give it a try. don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40c omcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/andrew.bar acco%40va.gov. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Well, I don't think that removing one key function lowers the cost that much, especially when the cost of keyboards is so low anyway. It's probably as they said. They did some kind of survey and found that folks generally don't use the numlock key. I don't think they even thought about blind folks, screen readers, etc. They should make the type of keyboard a matter of choice, and should not charge extra for a keyboard with a numlock key. Andy -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+andrew.baracco=va@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Dominguez via Talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:38 AM To: Dave; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: speaking of Dell computers... That's very true. It makes another thing that we have to add to the list of what we check when we buy a computer: whether the keyboard has the right keys, all of them! Also, where they are on the keyboard! Ugh! Pam. -Original Message- From: Dave via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:31 PM To: net bat ; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Seems like everything is getting smaller, shorter, Thinner, and often missing something, that once was part of the item. In this case, someone has decided to lower the cost of manufacturing, by removing a Key or two, or three. This time it is the Num Lock key, and it is probably true, that few ever use it. Just proving, you can't really assume much of anything these days. After a while, a person just gets tired of always having to double and triple check everything. At 06:12 PM 4/23/2015, you wrote: >demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num >lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. >give it a try. >don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. > >-Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk >Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:13 PM >To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >Subject: speaking of Dell computers... > >My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. >At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete >key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this >list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? >Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? >Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about >his system except that it is running Windows 7. > >Carol > > >___ >Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > >For membership options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40 comcast.net. >For subscription options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >List archives can be found at >http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >___ >Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > >For membership options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/davidh199 9%40comcast.net. >For subscription options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >List archives can be found at >http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40o ptonline.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/andrew.bar acco%40va.gov. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: speaking of Dell computers...
If that were only true. I've found they pretty much say here is what we have, take it or leave it. I asked to have a drive partitioned a while back and was told no, they only did that for a business system. I bought a Dell system on ebay some time back with seven on it, and it is like buying a toaster. I couldn't believe it, no way to add any drives, not even an expansion slot, and the sound card is about as minimal as you can get, just line and microphone in for record. I at first thought this was a windows seven limitation, but have since found it is a hardware limitation. 73 Butch WA0VJR Node 3148 Wallace, ks. On Fri, 24 Apr 2015, Baracco, Andrew W via Talk wrote: I have owned Dell computers since 1994, and have found their customer service folks to be more than reasonable. I am sure that if you made them aware of your situation, they would accommodate you. Andy -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+andrew.baracco=va@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of net bat via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 6:12 PM To: Carol and Roger; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: speaking of Dell computers... demand that dell send you a keyboard that has a num lock first before you go out and buy another keyboard. give it a try. don't lay down to the demands of dell stupitity. -Original Message- From: Carol and Roger via Talk Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: speaking of Dell computers... My brother got a new computer with a keyboard that has a number pad. At the place where the numlock key should be, his keyboard has a delete key and he only has numeric function of the keypad, Does anyone on this list have any ideas as to whether there is a numlock key somewhere? Will his only option for using mouse keys be to use the laptop layout? Thank you. I am sorry, but this is the only information I have about his system except that it is running Windows 7. Carol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/netbat%40c omcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/andrew.bar acco%40va.gov. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/butchb%40shellworld.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Rick and the rest, This discussion, altogether reminds me the one that every now and than, has popped up around USB NumPads. Rick, how much we would love a list provided, for all keyboards on the market, and their compatibility, it will never work. I am going to deal with but a couple of reasons, some of them likely brand new to some of you. First of all, it is true, some keyboards need hardware specific drivers. Even Microsoft has a line of keyboards, which will need drivers, particularly designed for the keyboard to work fully. In some cases, the driver has a menu, or some sort of a control panel, to setup the exact behavior. For instance, my one Microsoft keyboard here, comes with a set of "Quick keys", for launching your favorite net browser, your standard Email client, your desirable music player and so forth. Trouble is, the control panel provided by the driver, simply is useless with a screen reader, due to a totally graphical interface. Another Microsoft keyboard I have, is somehow doable to program, since the control panel for setting it up, is partially labelled with text on the screen.In both cases, should you decide you don't want to change the quick keys and their standard (default) behavior, you can run both these keyboards as plug-and-play. Plug them in, and enjoy the standard features, including an app-key, a numlock key, and standard behavior of the numeric keypad. My one Logitech keyboard, does not have a right-hand windows key, but does have an application key. My one Dell laptop has no app-key, no right windows key, but has an FN-key. The wireless keyboard I am on at this instance, has an app-key, a numlock-key, but has no Ctrl-key on the right hand, only on the left - which cause certain keystrokes no longer possible as one-handed strokes. What puzzles, is that all these keyboards are told - from the manufacturer and advertisers - to be standard keyboards. Might be worth to notice, that a desktop keyboard is considered "standard", when it has anything between 101 and 105 keys, and that is except from quick-keys and multimedia keys. My point here is, that there is a literal jungle of manufacturers, and it would be hard to determine if each and everyone of them keeps to a "full" standard. Even one and same manufacturer may have different keyboards, often with more or less identical names and model numbers. As already described above, my two Microsoft keyboards, are somehow different in accessibility. And the history of some other users, buying three different Dell keyboards, before they landed on one that could do, will tell the same point quite well. A list of functional keyboards, should it take into consideration only the hardware, leaving the driver, control panel or other software for the keyboard out of the story? I did ask the local dealer of WE here, as well as the former GW staff, why they did not sell USB NumPads, which would have greatly increased the functionality of laptops. The answer I got both places, may well enough apply in the case of why they don't sell full keyboards either. The local dealer told me, they had found one USB NumPad, completely working with the screen reader. they wanted to play the safe part, and ordered in a good stock of this particular keypad, same brand, same model, same design. Only to realize, that half the keypads were useless, as they did not work properly with the screen reader. Why? Because the processor used inside the keypad, that is the very electronic part that sends the keystrokes to the computer for further handling, would alter from one production batch, to the other. That means in effect, you order three keyboards from one and same manufacturer, one each day. Day1, the keypad will work faultlessly with the screen reader. Day2, no chance. Day3, the same as day1. Now lets take a look on how the industry works. You buy a Dell computer, I buy an HP. Our grandmothers both decide to go for a Linovo. It is easy enough to determine that the dell comes with an AMD processor, the HP and Linovo both base their operation on Intel processors. This is something clearly stated on the box, and even in the advertisement. Window-Eyes is designed to be running likewise on both processors. Yet, no matter how close they are in design and specifications, you might once in a while end up with cases where a piece of software does work on one, but not so on the other. Was more of a challenge 15 years ago, but still may apply in very specific cases. The processor then does not matter much. but what about all the other one hundred pieces of hardware inside your computer. do you think that HP manufactur each and every component on their own, and so does Dell and Linovo? Promise you, the technology to manufacture just one of those electronic tiny pieces, is a technolgy that none of us on the list has the money and knowledge to build, manufacture and otherwise engineer. And before you cl
RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi David and everyone, While I certainly appreciate reading this thread, and clearly there is a lot of energy on this matter of keyboards and their use with screen readers, I would like to say that there is no need for any serious concern about losing the functionality of the Numpad and therefore the functionality of Window-Eyes. This is because any function currently assigned to the Numpad keys can be assigned to other key combinations in the WE control panel. Also, regarding keyboards which happen to include a Numpad and yet do not include a NumLock key, I would guess that if the manufacturer was simply providing the Numpad to make numeric input easier, that manufacturer probably didn't make those keys unique in the codes they pass on to Windows when pressed. In other words, taking the number 5 on the Numpad as an example, my guess is that it would send the same key code to Windows as woudd be sent to Windows by pressing the number 5 on the Qwerty area of the keyboard; therefore, there would be no uniqueness about the Numpad numbers, and also there would be no alternate functions on the Numpad number keys, that is, that uniqueness we're used to when we turn NumLock off. In short, we will need to get used to the idea that we are going to have to use whatever keys are available to get our screen reader tasks completed, and perhaps we'll have to use more key combinations like Control-Shift-T, which we're all used to anyway. In truth, as long as we have keyboards which work at all, we'll be able to control Window-Eyes. Smile All the best, Rod -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of David via Talk Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 1:26 PM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List; 'Stephen Clark' Subject: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Rick and the rest, This discussion, altogether reminds me the one that every now and than, has popped up around USB NumPads. Rick, how much we would love a list provided, for all keyboards on the market, and their compatibility, it will never work. I am going to deal with but a couple of reasons, some of them likely brand new to some of you. First of all, it is true, some keyboards need hardware specific drivers. Even Microsoft has a line of keyboards, which will need drivers, particularly designed for the keyboard to work fully. In some cases, the driver has a menu, or some sort of a control panel, to setup the exact behavior. For instance, my one Microsoft keyboard here, comes with a set of "Quick keys", for launching your favorite net browser, your standard Email client, your desirable music player and so forth. Trouble is, the control panel provided by the driver, simply is useless with a screen reader, due to a totally graphical interface. Another Microsoft keyboard I have, is somehow doable to program, since the control panel for setting it up, is partially labelled with text on the screen.In both cases, should you decide you don't want to change the quick keys and their standard (default) behavior, you can run both these keyboards as plug-and-play. Plug them in, and enjoy the standard features, including an app-key, a numlock key, and standard behavior of the numeric keypad. My one Logitech keyboard, does not have a right-hand windows key, but does have an application key. My one Dell laptop has no app-key, no right windows key, but has an FN-key. The wireless keyboard I am on at this instance, has an app-key, a numlock-key, but has no Ctrl-key on the right hand, only on the left - which cause certain keystrokes no longer possible as one-handed strokes. What puzzles, is that all these keyboards are told - from the manufacturer and advertisers - to be standard keyboards. Might be worth to notice, that a desktop keyboard is considered "standard", when it has anything between 101 and 105 keys, and that is except from quick-keys and multimedia keys. My point here is, that there is a literal jungle of manufacturers, and it would be hard to determine if each and everyone of them keeps to a "full" standard. Even one and same manufacturer may have different keyboards, often with more or less identical names and model numbers. As already described above, my two Microsoft keyboards, are somehow different in accessibility. And the history of some other users, buying three different Dell keyboards, before they landed on one that could do, will tell the same point quite well. A list of functional keyboards, should it take into consideration only the hardware, leaving the driver, control panel or other software for the keyboard out of the story? I did ask the local dealer of WE here, as well as the former GW staff, why they did not sell USB NumPads, which would have greatly increased the functionality of laptops. The answer I got both places, ma
RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi Rod: There are standard codes generated by input devices and required at the Operating System level. This means that using quote standard unquote key combinations should be a safe option for years to come. I don't know enough to get into the codes nor standards but I know they exist and that a keyboard manufacturer designs it to work with an Operating Systems input device requirements in that respect. The elimination of some keys from the mix causes a problem as well defined in prior postings. That said, ReDefining the keys that are going to be in question to some more traditional keys like combinations of the control, shift and other grammar keys should be an option - at least for single country usage and targeted to a particular Operating system unless I am missing something. It can be done by AI Squared or by each client individually using some third party software but, from prior postings, it can be done easily enough so long as the client is educated in creating scripts or in using third party software to modify hardware / software configurations - not my first choice but one that should work if that is how WE Users want to roll. Anyway, this seems to be the most likely solution after everyone pounding out various ideas. If I buy a new system I will just ask folks what keyboards they are using, name and model, so long as there are still good choices out there before coding something up. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Also, you could buy a second keyboard with a NumLock key. Many are quite inexpensive. Even with my notebook, I use an external keyboard whenever I can. Here's a post on this where someone on a Dell forum wrote about this concern. One of the responses reads as follows: You could attach any usb keyboard you want--wired or wireless. You don't have to use the kb dell sent. I always use my own keyboard and save the basic dell one as an extra. http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/t/19476756 -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+richard.petty=earthlink@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 6:38 AM To: 'Rod Hutton'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'David' Subject: RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Hi Rod: There are standard codes generated by input devices and required at the Operating System level. This means that using quote standard unquote key combinations should be a safe option for years to come. I don't know enough to get into the codes nor standards but I know they exist and that a keyboard manufacturer designs it to work with an Operating Systems input device requirements in that respect. The elimination of some keys from the mix causes a problem as well defined in prior postings. That said, ReDefining the keys that are going to be in question to some more traditional keys like combinations of the control, shift and other grammar keys should be an option - at least for single country usage and targeted to a particular Operating system unless I am missing something. It can be done by AI Squared or by each client individually using some third party software but, from prior postings, it can be done easily enough so long as the client is educated in creating scripts or in using third party software to modify hardware / software configurations - not my first choice but one that should work if that is how WE Users want to roll. Anyway, this seems to be the most likely solution after everyone pounding out various ideas. If I buy a new system I will just ask folks what keyboards they are using, name and model, so long as there are still good choices out there before coding something up. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/richard.petty% 40earthlink.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
No actually the num-pad five sends a completely different code then number 5 on the intermedia pad. This is how programs like winamp know if you have issued a number 5 on the num-pad or not. That being said keyboard codes are keyboard codes and they don't change from device to device. They don't even change from operating system to operating system. Wether or not the operating system supports the codes is the question. For example IOS does not support the codes from the numpad and so they are completely ignored. There is no need for any list or anything like that. If you are missing keys redefining another key that you are not using is quite simple and a good salution to the problem. Another salution to the problem in the case of the num-lock is a utility that will turn it on or off. This utility could be placed in the startup section of your operating system and would set the state of num-lock. This quite frankly is much to do about nothing. It has been a problem that has been with us for years as I have already outlined and the work arounds for it are well know and understood. Hth -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+jgrimsby=roadrunner@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rod Hutton via Talk Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 3:43 AM To: 'David'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Hi David and everyone, While I certainly appreciate reading this thread, and clearly there is a lot of energy on this matter of keyboards and their use with screen readers, I would like to say that there is no need for any serious concern about losing the functionality of the Numpad and therefore the functionality of Window-Eyes. This is because any function currently assigned to the Numpad keys can be assigned to other key combinations in the WE control panel. Also, regarding keyboards which happen to include a Numpad and yet do not include a NumLock key, I would guess that if the manufacturer was simply providing the Numpad to make numeric input easier, that manufacturer probably didn't make those keys unique in the codes they pass on to Windows when pressed. In other words, taking the number 5 on the Numpad as an example, my guess is that it would send the same key code to Windows as woudd be sent to Windows by pressing the number 5 on the Qwerty area of the keyboard; therefore, there would be no uniqueness about the Numpad numbers, and also there would be no alternate functions on the Numpad number keys, that is, that uniqueness we're used to when we turn NumLock off. In short, we will need to get used to the idea that we are going to have to use whatever keys are available to get our screen reader tasks completed, and perhaps we'll have to use more key combinations like Control-Shift-T, which we're all used to anyway. In truth, as long as we have keyboards which work at all, we'll be able to control Window-Eyes. Smile All the best, Rod -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of David via Talk Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 1:26 PM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List; 'Stephen Clark' Subject: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Rick and the rest, This discussion, altogether reminds me the one that every now and than, has popped up around USB NumPads. Rick, how much we would love a list provided, for all keyboards on the market, and their compatibility, it will never work. I am going to deal with but a couple of reasons, some of them likely brand new to some of you. First of all, it is true, some keyboards need hardware specific drivers. Even Microsoft has a line of keyboards, which will need drivers, particularly designed for the keyboard to work fully. In some cases, the driver has a menu, or some sort of a control panel, to setup the exact behavior. For instance, my one Microsoft keyboard here, comes with a set of "Quick keys", for launching your favorite net browser, your standard Email client, your desirable music player and so forth. Trouble is, the control panel provided by the driver, simply is useless with a screen reader, due to a totally graphical interface. Another Microsoft keyboard I have, is somehow doable to program, since the control panel for setting it up, is partially labelled with text on the screen.In both cases, should you decide you don't want to change the quick keys and their standard (default) behavior, you can run both these keyboards as plug-and-play. Plug them in, and enjoy the standard features, including an app-key, a numlock key, and standard behavior of the numeric keypad. My one Logitech keyboard, does not have a right-hand windows key, but does have an application key. My one Dell laptop has no app-key, no right windows key, but has an FN-key. The wireless keyboard
RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
It is also good to keep in mind that the laptop layout together with using the CAPSLOCK key as the Window-Eyes key works pretty well. I really don't understand why some of the changes to keyboards have been made, but such things appear to be a part of life, and there are many things about the world I don't understand. In addition, so much of what a keyboard does is software, even if it is firmware inside of a keyboard, it really does not work to relate one's experiences with one model of keyboard or computer to another, except as something is worth trying in case it works. At least to my way of thinking, anything we can resolve within Window-Eyes is going to be preferrable to adding a third party piece of software. Something like AutoHotKey is very powerful and can do a lot more than just remap keys, and that may have some real value in some cases. If you don't need that power, though, it is just one more variable that may not work the same when you upgrade Windows or Window-Eyes. I got buy without using the laptop layout for a long time because my old Dell had an imbedded numeric pad using the FN key and the letters under the right hand. My newer HP does not support an imbedded numeric pad and it does not have a separate numeric pad. That finally made me try the laptop layout and it has become pretty second nature. Sometimes we can spend more time trying to figure out how not to change than it would take to adjust to the change.In saying that, though, of course I recognize that there may be specific situations when some other solution is necessary, but keep an open mind to changing layouts within Window-Eyes. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 06:42:34 -0400, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote: >Hi David and everyone, >While I certainly appreciate reading this thread, and clearly there is a lot >of energy on this matter of keyboards and their use with screen readers, I >would like to say that there is no need for any serious concern about losing >the functionality of the Numpad and therefore the functionality of >Window-Eyes. >This is because any function currently assigned to the Numpad keys can be >assigned to other key combinations in the WE control panel. >Also, regarding keyboards which happen to include a Numpad and yet do not >include a NumLock key, I would guess that if the manufacturer was simply >providing the Numpad to make numeric input easier, that manufacturer >probably didn't make those keys unique in the codes they pass on to Windows >when pressed. >In other words, taking the number 5 on the Numpad as an example, my guess is >that it would send the same key code to Windows as woudd be sent to Windows >by pressing the number 5 on the Qwerty area of the keyboard; therefore, >there would be no uniqueness about the Numpad numbers, and also there would >be no alternate functions on the Numpad number keys, that is, that >uniqueness we're used to when we turn NumLock off. >In short, we will need to get used to the idea that we are going to have to >use whatever keys are available to get our screen reader tasks completed, >and perhaps we'll have to use more key combinations like Control-Shift-T, >which we're all used to anyway. >In truth, as long as we have keyboards which work at all, we'll be able to >control Window-Eyes. Smile >All the best, >Rod >-Original Message- >From: Talk >[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf >Of David via Talk >Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 1:26 PM >To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List; 'Stephen Clark' >Subject: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell >computers... >Rick and the rest, >This discussion, altogether reminds me the one that every now and than, >has popped up around USB NumPads. >Rick, how much we would love a list provided, for all keyboards on the >market, and their compatibility, it will never work. I am going to deal >with but a couple of reasons, some of them likely brand new to some of you. >First of all, it is true, some keyboards need hardware specific drivers. >Even Microsoft has a line of keyboards, which will need drivers, >particularly designed for the keyboard to work fully. In some cases, the >driver has a menu, or some sort of a control panel, to setup the exact >behavior. For instance, my one Microsoft keyboard here, comes with a set >of "Quick keys", for launching your favorite net browser, your standard >Email client, your desirable music player and so forth. Trouble is, the >control panel provided by the driver, simply is useless with a screen >reader, due to a totally graphical interface. Another Microsoft keyboard >I have, is somehow doable to program, since the control pane
RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Thanks for the great explanation. I had no idea that the alternate functionality for the number pad keys had also been removed from some keyboards. At least on the one keyboard that I own that is missing the Num Lock key, the alternate functionality still exists if I set the Num Lock toggle in the registry. That said, perhaps one thing the WE development team could look into is the notion of a soft Num Lock (i.e. where WE interprets the number pad keys one way or the other depending upon this soft setting, resident only to WE). I would make this optional with a default to off. When enabled, a new key combination could be provided in WE to toggle WE's interpretation of the numb pad keys, either as numbers or as mouse commands. Rick Blair -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+softwarethatworks=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of David via Talk Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 1:26 PM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List; 'Stephen Clark' Subject: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Rick and the rest, This discussion, altogether reminds me the one that every now and than, has popped up around USB NumPads. Rick, how much we would love a list provided, for all keyboards on the market, and their compatibility, it will never work. I am going to deal with but a couple of reasons, some of them likely brand new to some of you. First of all, it is true, some keyboards need hardware specific drivers. Even Microsoft has a line of keyboards, which will need drivers, particularly designed for the keyboard to work fully. In some cases, the driver has a menu, or some sort of a control panel, to setup the exact behavior. For instance, my one Microsoft keyboard here, comes with a set of "Quick keys", for launching your favorite net browser, your standard Email client, your desirable music player and so forth. Trouble is, the control panel provided by the driver, simply is useless with a screen reader, due to a totally graphical interface. Another Microsoft keyboard I have, is somehow doable to program, since the control panel for setting it up, is partially labelled with text on the screen.In both cases, should you decide you don't want to change the quick keys and their standard (default) behavior, you can run both these keyboards as plug-and-play. Plug them in, and enjoy the standard features, including an app-key, a numlock key, and standard behavior of the numeric keypad. My one Logitech keyboard, does not have a right-hand windows key, but does have an application key. My one Dell laptop has no app-key, no right windows key, but has an FN-key. The wireless keyboard I am on at this instance, has an app-key, a numlock-key, but has no Ctrl-key on the right hand, only on the left - which cause certain keystrokes no longer possible as one-handed strokes. What puzzles, is that all these keyboards are told - from the manufacturer and advertisers - to be standard keyboards. Might be worth to notice, that a desktop keyboard is considered "standard", when it has anything between 101 and 105 keys, and that is except from quick-keys and multimedia keys. My point here is, that there is a literal jungle of manufacturers, and it would be hard to determine if each and everyone of them keeps to a "full" standard. Even one and same manufacturer may have different keyboards, often with more or less identical names and model numbers. As already described above, my two Microsoft keyboards, are somehow different in accessibility. And the history of some other users, buying three different Dell keyboards, before they landed on one that could do, will tell the same point quite well. A list of functional keyboards, should it take into consideration only the hardware, leaving the driver, control panel or other software for the keyboard out of the story? I did ask the local dealer of WE here, as well as the former GW staff, why they did not sell USB NumPads, which would have greatly increased the functionality of laptops. The answer I got both places, may well enough apply in the case of why they don't sell full keyboards either. The local dealer told me, they had found one USB NumPad, completely working with the screen reader. they wanted to play the safe part, and ordered in a good stock of this particular keypad, same brand, same model, same design. Only to realize, that half the keypads were useless, as they did not work properly with the screen reader. Why? Because the processor used inside the keypad, that is the very electronic part that sends the keystrokes to the computer for further handling, would alter from one production batch, to the other. That means in effect, you order three keyboards from one and same manufacturer, one each day. Day1, the keypad will work faultlessly with the screen reader. Day2, no chance. Day3, the same as day1. Now let
RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi Rick, A few days ago, I wrote a Window-Eyes app which allows you to use a typical Window-Eyes hotkey, as well as configure the hotkey the way you like using the typical hotkey manager, to toggle the state of NumLock. If you would like to try it out, I can attach it to an email to you. By default, it uses Control-equals for the hotkey, only because the lady I wrote it for said her brother's keyboard had the equals key where the NumLock should be on the Numpad, and I figured Control-equalsmade sense. smile Best regards, Rod -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Rick Blair via Talk Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 8:27 PM To: 'David'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'; 'Rick Thomas'; 'Stephen Clark' Subject: RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Thanks for the great explanation. I had no idea that the alternate functionality for the number pad keys had also been removed from some keyboards. At least on the one keyboard that I own that is missing the Num Lock key, the alternate functionality still exists if I set the Num Lock toggle in the registry. That said, perhaps one thing the WE development team could look into is the notion of a soft Num Lock (i.e. where WE interprets the number pad keys one way or the other depending upon this soft setting, resident only to WE). I would make this optional with a default to off. When enabled, a new key combination could be provided in WE to toggle WE's interpretation of the numb pad keys, either as numbers or as mouse commands. Rick Blair -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+softwarethatworks=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of David via Talk Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 1:26 PM To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List; 'Stephen Clark' Subject: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers... Rick and the rest, This discussion, altogether reminds me the one that every now and than, has popped up around USB NumPads. Rick, how much we would love a list provided, for all keyboards on the market, and their compatibility, it will never work. I am going to deal with but a couple of reasons, some of them likely brand new to some of you. First of all, it is true, some keyboards need hardware specific drivers. Even Microsoft has a line of keyboards, which will need drivers, particularly designed for the keyboard to work fully. In some cases, the driver has a menu, or some sort of a control panel, to setup the exact behavior. For instance, my one Microsoft keyboard here, comes with a set of "Quick keys", for launching your favorite net browser, your standard Email client, your desirable music player and so forth. Trouble is, the control panel provided by the driver, simply is useless with a screen reader, due to a totally graphical interface. Another Microsoft keyboard I have, is somehow doable to program, since the control panel for setting it up, is partially labelled with text on the screen.In both cases, should you decide you don't want to change the quick keys and their standard (default) behavior, you can run both these keyboards as plug-and-play. Plug them in, and enjoy the standard features, including an app-key, a numlock key, and standard behavior of the numeric keypad. My one Logitech keyboard, does not have a right-hand windows key, but does have an application key. My one Dell laptop has no app-key, no right windows key, but has an FN-key. The wireless keyboard I am on at this instance, has an app-key, a numlock-key, but has no Ctrl-key on the right hand, only on the left - which cause certain keystrokes no longer possible as one-handed strokes. What puzzles, is that all these keyboards are told - from the manufacturer and advertisers - to be standard keyboards. Might be worth to notice, that a desktop keyboard is considered "standard", when it has anything between 101 and 105 keys, and that is except from quick-keys and multimedia keys. My point here is, that there is a literal jungle of manufacturers, and it would be hard to determine if each and everyone of them keeps to a "full" standard. Even one and same manufacturer may have different keyboards, often with more or less identical names and model numbers. As already described above, my two Microsoft keyboards, are somehow different in accessibility. And the history of some other users, buying three different Dell keyboards, before they landed on one that could do, will tell the same point quite well. A list of functional keyboards, should it take into consideration only the hardware, leaving the driver, control panel or other software for the keyboard out of the story? I did ask the local dealer of WE here, as well as the former GW staff, why they did not sell USB NumPads, which would have
RE: Screen Reader compatible Keyboards. Was: Re: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi Rod: Unless you need me to beta test prior to posting to the AI2 site I would rather not. My current setup works and I don't like to "fix" something if it isnt broken. But if you want me to test the script prior to going into production I will give it a spin. Rick USA ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Correction of Applications Key info on Logitech K810 was RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hello All I'm sorry I got the key combination wrong. You press the FN key (which is second in from the bottom left) with the right control key. It's a bit tricky to get but it does work. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of via Talk Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2015 2:09 AM To: Pamela Dominguez; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... hmmm, that must be something incoded in to his keyboard because right alt+right ctrl doesn't do anything here on my system. shift plus f10 has always worked though. Legend has it that on Saturday 4/25/2015 10:39 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk said: >Do you mean you press the right control and right alt together to >make the applications menu happen? Pam. > >-Original Message- From: Debbie April Yuille via Talk >Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 3:04 AM >To: 'Les Kriegler' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Yes it does, right control and right alt. > >Debbie > > >-Original Message- >From: Talk >[mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On >Behalf Of Les Kriegler via Talk >Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2015 1:07 AM >To: 'Chris Grabowski'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Hi Chris, > >I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it >doesn't have an applications key. > >Les > >-Original Message- >From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] >On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk >Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM >To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. >The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and >an applications key. >Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. >Chris > > >Window-Eyes Product Support >Ai Squared >725 Airport North Office Park >Fort Wayne, IN 46825 >(802) 362-3612 >www.aisquared.com > >-Original Message- >From: Talk >[mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On >Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk >Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM >To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Same thing here: >My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I >purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. >I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best >Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications >keys. >My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout >senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware >manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 >percent of their base client requirements. >That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a >buck for coffee. >I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are >getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. >By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called >them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where >keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came >with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over >at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at >least, he did find one, at least for now. >It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you >need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and >there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were >compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the >time. >I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the >Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me >thinks. >Rick USA > >___ >Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author >and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > >For membership options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cgrabowski%40 a >isquared.com. >For subscription options, visit >http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >List archives can be found at >http:
RE: Correction of Applications Key info on Logitech K810 was RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Yes, that keysgtroke does work. Thanks. Les -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Debbie April Yuille via Talk Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 12:17 AM To: northstar1...@okiespirit.net; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: Correction of Applications Key info on Logitech K810 was RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hello All I'm sorry I got the key combination wrong. You press the FN key (which is second in from the bottom left) with the right control key. It's a bit tricky to get but it does work. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of via Talk Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2015 2:09 AM To: Pamela Dominguez; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... hmmm, that must be something incoded in to his keyboard because right alt+right ctrl doesn't do anything here on my system. shift plus f10 has always worked though. Legend has it that on Saturday 4/25/2015 10:39 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk said: >Do you mean you press the right control and right alt together to >make the applications menu happen? Pam. > >-Original Message- From: Debbie April Yuille via Talk >Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 3:04 AM >To: 'Les Kriegler' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Yes it does, right control and right alt. > >Debbie > > >-Original Message- >From: Talk >[mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On >Behalf Of Les Kriegler via Talk >Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2015 1:07 AM >To: 'Chris Grabowski'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Hi Chris, > >I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it >doesn't have an applications key. > >Les > >-Original Message- >From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr....@lists.window-eyes.com] >On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk >Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM >To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. >The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and >an applications key. >Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. >Chris > > >Window-Eyes Product Support >Ai Squared >725 Airport North Office Park >Fort Wayne, IN 46825 >(802) 362-3612 >www.aisquared.com > >-Original Message----- >From: Talk >[mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On >Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk >Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM >To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Same thing here: >My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I >purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. >I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best >Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications >keys. >My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout >senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware >manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 >percent of their base client requirements. >That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a >buck for coffee. >I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are >getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. >By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called >them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where >keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came >with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over >at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at >least, he did find one, at least for now. >It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you >need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and >there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were >compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the >time. >I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the >Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me >thinks. >Rick USA > >___ >Any views
RE: Correction of Applications Key info on Logitech K810 was RE: speaking of Dell computers...
Hi Debbie, No problem. Apology accepted. -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Debbie April Yuille via Talk Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 12:17 AM To: northstar1...@okiespirit.net; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' Subject: Correction of Applications Key info on Logitech K810 was RE: speaking of Dell computers... Hello All I'm sorry I got the key combination wrong. You press the FN key (which is second in from the bottom left) with the right control key. It's a bit tricky to get but it does work. Debbie -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of via Talk Sent: Sunday, 26 April 2015 2:09 AM To: Pamela Dominguez; Window-Eyes Discussion List Subject: Re: speaking of Dell computers... hmmm, that must be something incoded in to his keyboard because right alt+right ctrl doesn't do anything here on my system. shift plus f10 has always worked though. Legend has it that on Saturday 4/25/2015 10:39 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk said: >Do you mean you press the right control and right alt together to >make the applications menu happen? Pam. > >-Original Message- From: Debbie April Yuille via Talk >Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 3:04 AM >To: 'Les Kriegler' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Yes it does, right control and right alt. > >Debbie > > >-Original Message- >From: Talk >[mailto:talk-bounces+debbiey1982=optusnet.com...@lists.window-eyes.com] On >Behalf Of Les Kriegler via Talk >Sent: Saturday, 25 April 2015 1:07 AM >To: 'Chris Grabowski'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Hi Chris, > >I use the Logitech Bluetooth k810 and really love the keyboard. However, it >doesn't have an applications key. > >Les > >-Original Message- >From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kriegler=nycap.rr....@lists.window-eyes.com] >On Behalf Of Chris Grabowski via Talk >Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:43 AM >To: Rick Thomas; Window-Eyes Discussion List >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >I find newer Logitech keyboards do not have an applications key. >The last couple of Microsoft keyboards I purchased have both a numlock and >an applications key. >Can't speak on any other brand keyboards. >Chris > > >Window-Eyes Product Support >Ai Squared >725 Airport North Office Park >Fort Wayne, IN 46825 >(802) 362-3612 >www.aisquared.com > >-Original Message----- >From: Talk >[mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On >Behalf Of Rick Thomas via Talk >Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 6:26 AM >To: 'Lloyd Rasmussen'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' >Subject: RE: speaking of Dell computers... > >Same thing here: >My new Dell came with a keyboard but it did not have a num lock key, I >purchassed another and it came without an Applications Key. >I finally Purchassed a third keyboard that has both but the fellow at Best >Buy had a hard time finding one with both the num lock and applications >keys. >My guess is software should be designed around this newkeyboard layout >senario since I don't know if it is possible to influence the hardware >manufactures to comply with an individual software product in lieu of 99.99 >percent of their base client requirements. >That or perhaps AI Squared could sell a compatible keyboard and even make a >buck for coffee. >I don't know the best solution but it seems the large manufacturers are >getting away from the applications key and the num lock keys. >By the way, the girl from Dell had no clue as to what I ment when I called >them about getting a keyboard with both and sent me to a webPage where >keyboards were detailed but even there I couldn't figure out which ones came >with what I needed to work with WindowEyes and that is why I ended up over >at Best Buy and their sales person also had a hard time finding one but, at >least, he did find one, at least for now. >It is quite frustrating to drop hundreds for a computer only to find out you >need to hard scrounge additional hardware if you want to use WindowEyes and >there was not anything on the WindowEyes site as to which keyboards were >compatible with their software - at least I didn't find anything at the >time. >I guess in some cases a modified f10 key will work in place of the >Applications Key but as far as I know no num lock key can be a killer me >thinks. >Rick USA > >___ >Any views
