Re: [OSM-talk] Lost tags

[Peter Wendorff]

Am 29.07.2012 08:37, schrieb Arun Ganesh:



On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Frederik Ramm > wrote:


Hi,

On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 23:39:56 +0530
Arun Ganesh mailto:arun.plane...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> It is quite painful to see that countless hours of effort has been
> deleted for no fault of my own. Is this just the result of the osm
> data model where tags cannot exist without geometries, or were these
> tags considered as being dirty and were legally supposed to be
erased?

I think the former is correct.

This is good news for a start. We essentially have a UI problem, and 
if solved, will help getting back the most useful bits of the lost 
data back into osm.



If you go through the history planet file and create a list that goes:

"somewhere in the world there is a way that has the properties
name=Bingbong Street, maxspeed=30" (provided that both these
properties
were added by agreers) then it would be ok to publish that list and
even use it to add to OSM. I don't see how it can be much help though,
especially if it contains info like "somewhere in the world there
is an
object with wheelchair=yes and opening_times=so-and-so" ;)


The most easily identifiable data that I see are those that have name 
tags. What if you have a list view alongside a map, which is populated 
based on your current view and zoom level?
Then you use geometry information that's not there any more out of 
license issues, so there cannot be something like "based on your current 
view", there can only be a list, not ordered by geography, of sets of tags.
For ways, this can have additional information like the length of the 
way and orientation to assist mappers who lost their tags to identify 
where the original way was.
Length of way and orientation are derived from geometry only, and 
geometry isn't valid in terms of ODBL.
For POIs, you could have the name of the street beside which it was 
located and also distance and orientation from the nearest place=* node
and again you need the information of "beside" and "orientation" - which 
consists of coordinates and therefore the geometry information.
There are probably better ideas, but its an absolute shame that clean 
and extremely valuable data is lost because the data model does not 
support its existence.


Probably, if you have a good idea that is useful on the one hand, can be 
implemented (e.g. by you), and does not require the use of non-odbl-data 
to be derived, it may be possible to introduce as a new tool; but I 
don't see a way to do that.


regards
Peter
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[OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical import: Empty relations 1

[Paul Norman]

Now that the redaction bot has finished running, I want to propose what
should be a simple uncontroversial mechanical edit (hah).

I propose cleaning up two types of empty relations that are not members of
other relations.

- Those with no members and no tags
- Those with no members and type=multipolygon as the only tag

Relations removed will be limited to those more than a day old to avoid
conflicting with any open changesets.

This will not break any relations linked to from the wiki. You'd have to
know the ID of them to reference them, and if you know the ID you can
retrieve the deleted relation.

Technical details are at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/pnorman_imports

This would impact 1295 relations, unless you take the view that objects
which are identical are the same, in which case it would impact 2. :)


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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical import: Empty relations 1

[Mike N]

On 7/29/2012 5:06 AM, Paul Norman wrote:

- Those with no members and no tags
- Those with no members and type=multipolygon as the only tag

Relations removed will be limited to those more than a day old to avoid
conflicting with any open changesets.


 I would suggest a longer time interval, perhaps a week - I have 
performed multiple edit sessions with periodic uploads with 'dangling 
empty relations' before they were filled in.   (Although they would have 
had more tags).



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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical import: Empty relations 1

[Werner Hoch]

Am Sonntag, den 29.07.2012, 02:06 -0700 schrieb Paul Norman:
> Now that the redaction bot has finished running, I want to propose what
> should be a simple uncontroversial mechanical edit (hah).
> 
> I propose cleaning up two types of empty relations that are not members of
> other relations.
> 
> - Those with no members and no tags
> - Those with no members and type=multipolygon as the only tag

What about additionally add last editor=redaction bot?

... then there will be less controversion ;-)

Regards
werner2101




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[OSM-talk] New Potlatch feature to aid remapping

[Richard Fairhurst]

Hi all,

I've added a small feature to Potlatch 2 which should be generally 
useful but will particularly help in remapping.


When you've selected a way, you can now add intermediate points just by 
shift-clicking a blank area. P2 will work out where to put the node in 
the way, and do it. Exactly like shift-clicking the way to insert a node 
then dragging it, but quicker. (It's a bit like JOSM's 
ImproveWayAccuracy feature, I think.)


You can also incorporate existing nodes by shift-clicking them. This is 
useful for those times when a bunch of orphan nodes are hanging around, 
but the way itself has been straightened.


cheers
Richard


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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical import: Empty relations 1

[Paul Norman]

> From: Werner Hoch [mailto:werner...@gmx.de]
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 6:33 AM
> To: Paul Norman
> Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical import: Empty relations 1
> 
> Am Sonntag, den 29.07.2012, 02:06 -0700 schrieb Paul Norman:
> > Now that the redaction bot has finished running, I want to propose
> > what should be a simple uncontroversial mechanical edit (hah).
> >
> > I propose cleaning up two types of empty relations that are not
> > members of other relations.
> >
> > - Those with no members and no tags
> > - Those with no members and type=multipolygon as the only tag
> 
> What about additionally add last editor=redaction bot?
> 
> ... then there will be less controversion ;-)
> 
> Regards
> werner2101

The redaction bot didn't leave behind any relations with no geodata.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical import: Empty relations 1

[Paul Norman]

> From: Mike N [mailto:nice...@att.net]
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed mechanical import: Empty relations 1
> 
> On 7/29/2012 5:06 AM, Paul Norman wrote:
> > - Those with no members and no tags
> > - Those with no members and type=multipolygon as the only tag
> >
> > Relations removed will be limited to those more than a day old to
> > avoid conflicting with any open changesets.
> 
>   I would suggest a longer time interval, perhaps a week - I have
> performed multiple edit sessions with periodic uploads with 'dangling
> empty relations' before they were filled in.   (Although they would have
> had more tags).

I can't imagine a use for a relation or multipolygon with no geodata and no
tag data, even when considering multi-day edit sessions. If someone isn't
going to provide some information (at least tags) then why would they make
the relation at all?

I wouldn't suggest using relations or MPs with no geodata and with tag data
over long edit sessions since if you lose your spot and have to redownload
from the API you'll of lost the relations unless you remember their IDs.

I might propose something at a later data dealing with relations or MPs that
have no geodata but have tag data, but that's not the purpose of this edit.

Just for reference, there are approximately 5k relations with no geodata.


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