Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[James Mast]

I just hope that the 'tertiary_link' casing problem can be fixed soon.  In some 
places, that looks horrible.
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/753

-James


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[James Mast]

I just hope that the 'tertiary_link' casing problem can be fixed soon.  In some 
places, that looks horrible.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes (nature_reserve & highway=services)

[Dave F.]

So it is. Just came through now, with a bit of refreshing.


Thanks
Dave F.

On 25/07/2014 15:57, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
The issue with services seems to be already noticed and fixed - see 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/730



2014-07-25 16:30 GMT+02:00 Dave F. >:


Hi
Good to see updates for the mapnik rendering.

Unsure if these two problems are directly linked to these updates:

highway=services (ie service stations where you can get a
drink/meal etc) as an area are rendering as a high level layer
hiding detail such as car parks. Can this be put at a lower level?

leisure=nature_reserve
Used to have an infill of text 'NR'. that's been removed but not
replaced by anything, it's now just a faint border, at all levels,
which makes it extremely difficult to distinguish. According to
this

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/commit/c505f51a930fe00977af8ae7fc2d58a36a659ff1
it was meant to render the same as national parks but doesn't
appear to work: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.4624/-2.4755

Cheers
Dave F.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Andy Street]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:01:40 +0100
Matthijs Melissen  wrote:

> On 25 July 2014 12:52, Andy Street  wrote:
> >> * Cleaning up path rendering on low zooms
> >> (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/747)
> >
> > Is there any chance this could be tweaked slightly? A lot of the
> > public footpaths near me are now disappearing completely
> > at z13/z14 because they include "access=private" as part of their
> > access tagging.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your comments. At first sight, this seems to be a
> tagging problem, but if you still disagree, feel free to open an issue
> on Github.

Yes this is a bug. I would have reported it myself but it appears that
you need a GitHub account to do that rather than a standard OSM
account. Please feel free to report it on my behalf.

-- 
Regards,

Andy Street

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[OSM-talk] Purpose of the slippy map (wasUpcoming openstreetmap-carto changes)

[yvecai]

I think it will be time-concuming to find a particular topic about this 
subject. However, I have the feeling that Tom's claim about what is the 
slippy map being for mappers more than for users is deeply anchored in 
the community.

I think others can back up this.

IMO, the fact that the map isn't considered particularly 'nice' or is 
looking a bit 'special' for everyday purpose is probably the best 
argument. Another one can be the presence of Mapquest Open tiles on the 
front page too.


That being said, I would be pleased to see the current slippy map style 
evolve in parallel as an *alternate*, general-purpose map style like 
Gmap or Mapquest Open community-driven like openstreetmap-carto these days.


Yves

On 25.07.2014 19:13, Matthijs Melissen wrote:

Hi Tom,

On 25 July 2014 15:26, Tom Hughes  wrote:

Traditionally we have always said that out web site is aimed at supporting
mappers and not at providing end user services like helping people navigate
- we provide the data to let other people build services like that.

I have been looking before at history of the mailing lists etc. to see
if I could find back discussions about the  'purpose of the main map',
but I couldn't find anything. I would be very interested to read what
has been discussed in the past about this topic, and which arguments
were given. Do you remember where this has been discussed? Even a
rough year, or whether it was the forum/mailing list/irc, would help
already. Hopefully you can help.

-- Matthijs


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[OSM-talk] UK public footpaths (was: Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes)

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi,

Public footpaths in the United Kingdom have been discussed at length and
are detailed on the wiki:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_public_rights_of_way#Tagging_Access_Provisions

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_access_provisions

In summary, for a Public Footpath:

* tag the highway as per what it physically looks like (e.g. highway=track,
highway=service, highway=footway)
* then add designation=public_footpath to describe the legal designation of
the way.
* Access tags are then optional. In the case of a public footpath
access=no/private + foot=designated/yes would be a valid way of tagging
(i.e. close off access to all transport types and then overwrite for people
on foot, as per the access hierarchy)

The exception to the rule is if you tag the route as highway=path. In this
case access tags are required.

Regards,
Rob
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes (nature_reserve & highway=services)

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 July 2014 15:30, Dave F.  wrote:
> highway=services (ie service stations where you can get a drink/meal etc) as
> an area are rendering as a high level layer hiding detail such as car parks.
> Can this be put at a lower level?

I created an issue for that here:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/764

> leisure=nature_reserve
> Used to have an infill of text 'NR'. that's been removed but not replaced by
> anything, it's now just a faint border, at all levels, which makes it
> extremely difficult to distinguish. According to this
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/commit/c505f51a930fe00977af8ae7fc2d58a36a659ff1
> it was meant to render the same as national parks but doesn't appear to
> work: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.4624/-2.4755

I think it does render the same as national parks, but apparently that
is not enough. A issue for this exists already:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/563

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi Tom,

On 25 July 2014 15:26, Tom Hughes  wrote:
> Traditionally we have always said that out web site is aimed at supporting
> mappers and not at providing end user services like helping people navigate
> - we provide the data to let other people build services like that.

I have been looking before at history of the mailing lists etc. to see
if I could find back discussions about the  'purpose of the main map',
but I couldn't find anything. I would be very interested to read what
has been discussed in the past about this topic, and which arguments
were given. Do you remember where this has been discussed? Even a
rough year, or whether it was the forum/mailing list/irc, would help
already. Hopefully you can help.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 July 2014 13:59, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson  wrote:
> I was under the impression more shops would be displayed than previously?
>
> So far I'm seeing fewer, a notable example being liquor stores that have now
> vanished from visual.
>
> Examples: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951075
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2125818740

See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/762.

> Also worrying that amenity=clinic still isn't displayed with the cross like
> pharmacy and others, in many rural places this is the only healthcare
> around.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2303511227

See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/763.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 July 2014 12:52, Andy Street  wrote:
>> * Cleaning up path rendering on low zooms
>> (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/747)
>
> Is there any chance this could be tweaked slightly? A lot of the
> public footpaths near me are now disappearing completely
> at z13/z14 because they include "access=private" as part of their
> access tagging.


Thank you for your comments. At first sight, this seems to be a
tagging problem, but if you still disagree, feel free to open an issue
on Github.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 24 July 2014 05:17, Andreas Goss  wrote:
> I hope craft=* and office=* will follow. Would probably encourage
> more people to map them and report missing/wrong POIs.

We are working on it, but there are still some issues to resolve. See
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/108.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 23 July 2014 02:51, Paul Norman  wrote:
> v2.17.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been released, though not
> yet deployed on tile.osm.org.

I would like to thank everyone for all comments, which are really helpful.

Because there are so many comments about different aspects, and
because the replies to them will likely provoke further replies, I
will mainly respond here with references to the relevant issues on
Github. This hopefully will make it easier for everyone to keep an
overview, by keeping the discussion in one place. I hope it also will
make it easier for everyone to only follow the parts of the discussion
in which they are interested.

In general, the quickest way to get attention to a problem is to
create an issue on Github:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto. The stylesheet
developers do not follow all threads here on talk, while on Github
issues are guaranteed to be seen.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Christoph Hormann]

On Friday 25 July 2014, Christian Quest wrote:
>
> On the first zoom levels, I think we can put the priority on map
> users a little bit more... but as map contributors are more checking
> their work at the highest zoom levels we should stick with strict
> rendering showing errors. Doing more than that seems difficult or
> impossible to me.

My observation is often the actual design is more or less the other way 
round, the highest zoom levels are mostly designed to be useful, at 
least in the urban environment.  On intermediate scales the map style 
is fairly selective showing only certain things sometimes based on a 
somewhat arbitrary selection leading people to frequently apply tags 
specifically to make elements show up.  At the same time it gives 
fairly little orientation for the map user.  And the lowest zoom levels 
are not given much consideration at all, making them neither useful for 
the map user nor for the mapper. 

This is of course a subjective impression - it might appear quite 
differently for others.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] #MapLesotho day is today - Join in and start mapping with us

[Dave Corley]

Hi Martin,

Latest diary post - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/DaCor/diary/23392

Wiki page with details - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lesotho_Mapathon

Dave


On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 4:21 AM, Dave Corley  wrote:
> > #MapLesotho
>
>
> Is there a blog post or something we can link to in a tweet?
>
> Good luck!
> Martijn
>
> --
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> http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
> http://openstreetmap.us/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Where did we get 500000 new users?

[Pieren]

Btw, the stats page is also showing 2207299 users but crashes on next
GPS data stats:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/stats/data_stats.html

Top 50 users for uploads of GPS data

Exception: undefined method `each' for #
/srv/www.openstreetmap.org/rails/script/statistics:36:in `block in

'
/var/lib/gems/1.9.1/gems/activerecord-4.1.4/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/abstract/database_statements.rb:201:in
`block in transaction'
/var/lib/gems/1.9.1/gems/activerecord-4.1.4/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/abstract/database_statements.rb:209:in
`within_new_transaction'
/var/lib/gems/1.9.1/gems/activerecord-4.1.4/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/abstract/database_statements.rb:201:in
`transaction'
/var/lib/gems/1.9.1/gems/activerecord-4.1.4/lib/active_record/transactions.rb:208:in
`transaction'
/var/lib/gems/1.9.1/gems/deadlock_retry-1.2.0/lib/deadlock_retry.rb:31:in
`transaction_with_deadlock_handling'

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Tom Hughes]

On 25/07/14 15:42, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2014-07-25 16:38 GMT+02:00 Tom Hughes mailto:t...@compton.nu>>:

I would dispute the claim that the Hertford East<->North link is in
any way a "significant feature in the landscape".



Looking at this http://www.hertford.net/images/Hertford_East_Sidings.jpg
it seems to be.


That is one little bit of track by the station at Hertford East and yes, 
including that as a disused siding would be fine. Basically that is the 
bit you can see here:


  http://maps.compton.nu/compare#18/51.79990/-0.06999/mapnik/bsa

where the start of the old track comes off just before the station and 
loops round the back of the current platform.


You won't find any sign of it like that west of the station. For example 
the bit here:


  http://maps.compton.nu/compare#18/51.79986/-0.07726/mapnik/bsa

is now a very long thin car park, and the bit here:

  http://maps.compton.nu/compare#18/51.80072/-0.08732/mapnik/bsa

is now a footpath (the line of trees in the aerial) and this bit:

  http://maps.compton.nu/compare#19/51.79602/-0.09156/mapnik/bsa

which used to be the link with the Hertford Loop south of the station at 
Hertford North is now used as an access road for track maintenance.


Tom

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[OSM-talk] Where did we get 500000 new users?

[Jukka Rahkonen]

Hi,

There is a big jump in the number of OSM users between 20th and 21st of
July, why? See http://osmstats.altogetherlost.com/

-Jukka Rahkonen-




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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes (nature_reserve & highway=services)

[Mateusz Konieczny]

The issue with services seems to be already noticed and fixed - see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/730


2014-07-25 16:30 GMT+02:00 Dave F. :

> Hi
> Good to see updates for the mapnik rendering.
>
> Unsure if these two problems are directly linked to these updates:
>
> highway=services (ie service stations where you can get a drink/meal etc)
> as an area are rendering as a high level layer hiding detail such as car
> parks. Can this be put at a lower level?
>
> leisure=nature_reserve
> Used to have an infill of text 'NR'. that's been removed but not replaced
> by anything, it's now just a faint border, at all levels, which makes it
> extremely difficult to distinguish. According to this https://github.com/
> gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/commit/c505f51a930fe00977af8ae7fc2d58
> a36a659ff1 it was meant to render the same as national parks but doesn't
> appear to work: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.4624/-2.4755
>
> Cheers
> Dave F.
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Christian Quest]

2014-07-25 16:20 GMT+02:00 SomeoneElse :

> On 25/07/2014 15:03, Tom Hughes wrote:
>
>>
>> How about assuming good intent ...
>>
>
> No-one's suggesting anything other than "people wanting to make the
> standard layer better".  It's "better for what" that's the issue.  I think
> that we ought to be making a map style that better helps people navigate to
> where they want to go.
>
>  ... and making suggestions on how to improve things
>>
>
> A number of people tried that on
>
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/542
>
> all feedback pretty much fell on deaf ears.
>


"better for what" is really the question... and the answer is not clear nor
shared.

For a large group, it should show OSM data, a lot of it to have quick
feedback to new contributions as it motivates to go on.
A side goal is to keep incorrectly tagged data not visible.
This means the default map is made primarily for contributors as reminded
by Tom.

Another goal is to make the map useful for a larger audience, to show that
OSM is a cool and useful project.
The rendering in that case puts the priority on map users, and thus should
deal with tagging inconsistencies, improve OSM data with some additional
ones (hillshade, contours, and maybe more).

It seems to me quite difficult to achieve both at the same time as there
are a lot of contradictions.

On the first zoom levels, I think we can put the priority on map users a
little bit more... but as map contributors are more checking their work at
the highest zoom levels we should stick with strict rendering showing
errors. Doing more than that seems difficult or impossible to me.

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2014-07-25 16:38 GMT+02:00 Tom Hughes :

> I would dispute the claim that the Hertford East<->North link is in any
> way a "significant feature in the landscape".
>


Looking at this http://www.hertford.net/images/Hertford_East_Sidings.jpg it
seems to be.
looking here it doesn't seem to be:
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/hertford_north/hertford_north_aerial2.jpg

maybe there is a big difference between H East and North?

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Tom Hughes]

On 25/07/14 15:33, SomeoneElse wrote:


On 25/07/2014 15:26, Tom Hughes wrote:


For the record I personally was perfectly happy to see things like
long obliterated railways removed from the standard rendering.


We never (well not for 5 years or so?) rendered dismantled railways -
it's the removal of those that _weren't_ obliterated but are still a
significant feature in the landscape that's the issue!


I would dispute the claim that the Hertford East<->North link is in any 
way a "significant feature in the landscape".


Sure if you know about it and you look hard you can figure out where it 
went, and where a piece of footpath is part of the old track bed, but 
we want it to render on the primary map as a footpath, not a damned railway.


That's true to my mind even west of Hertford where it becomes the Cole 
Green Way which is much less mangled - the right of way is still there 
without tracks (and even has some station platforms) but what it is to 
people on the ground now is a foot/cycle path, not a railway.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[SomeoneElse]

On 25/07/2014 15:26, Tom Hughes wrote:


Traditionally we have always said that out web site is aimed at 
supporting mappers 


That certainly used to be the case, but the most recent series of 
changes have all being about "showing less" rather than "showing more".  
How does that "support mappers"?


For the record I personally was perfectly happy to see things like 
long obliterated railways removed from the standard rendering.


We never (well not for 5 years or so?) rendered dismantled railways - 
it's the removal of those that _weren't_ obliterated but are still a 
significant feature in the landscape that's the issue!


Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Andy Street]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 15:18:16 +0200
Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:

> "[highway=footway; vehicle=private] it can
> be used by pedestrians but some people may drive here"

The trouble is that you are merging the distinction between "highway"
and "access". Your example above would, to me, indicate a way for use by
single-tracked vehicles and therefore not something that you'd attempt
to drive a car along.

I've done this sort of thing a lot for what is known in England as a
"byway open to all traffic" where you have the legal right to drive a
motorcar but often the condition of the way has become so bad that it
is physically impossible for any dual-tracked vehicle to do so.

-- 
Regards,

Andy Street

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes (nature_reserve & highway=services)

[Dave F.]

Hi
Good to see updates for the mapnik rendering.

Unsure if these two problems are directly linked to these updates:

highway=services (ie service stations where you can get a drink/meal 
etc) as an area are rendering as a high level layer hiding detail such 
as car parks. Can this be put at a lower level?


leisure=nature_reserve
Used to have an infill of text 'NR'. that's been removed but not 
replaced by anything, it's now just a faint border, at all levels, which 
makes it extremely difficult to distinguish. According to this 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/commit/c505f51a930fe00977af8ae7fc2d58a36a659ff1 
it was meant to render the same as national parks but doesn't appear to 
work: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.4624/-2.4755


Cheers
Dave F.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[SomeoneElse]

On 25/07/2014 15:03, Tom Hughes wrote:


How about assuming good intent ... 


No-one's suggesting anything other than "people wanting to make the 
standard layer better".  It's "better for what" that's the issue.  I 
think that we ought to be making a map style that better helps people 
navigate to where they want to go.


... and making suggestions on how to improve things 


A number of people tried that on

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/542

all feedback pretty much fell on deaf ears.

Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Tom Hughes]

On 25/07/14 15:20, SomeoneElse wrote:

On 25/07/2014 15:03, Tom Hughes wrote:


How about assuming good intent ...


No-one's suggesting anything other than "people wanting to make the
standard layer better".  It's "better for what" that's the issue.  I
think that we ought to be making a map style that better helps people
navigate to where they want to go.


Traditionally we have always said that out web site is aimed at 
supporting mappers and not at providing end user services like helping 
people navigate - we provide the data to let other people build services 
like that.



... and making suggestions on how to improve things


A number of people tried that on

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/542

all feedback pretty much fell on deaf ears.


Just because somebody doesn't do what you want doesn't mean it fell on 
deaf ears of course, just that they didn't agree with you ;-)


That's especially true because it tends only to be the people that are 
opposed to a change that comment - it's much hard to get people that are 
happy with a change to comment.


For the record I personally was perfectly happy to see things like long 
obliterated railways removed from the standard rendering.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Tom Hughes]

On 25/07/14 14:51, SomeoneElse wrote:


I do get the impression that these changes haven't really been thought
through at all - no thought given to what the impact will be worldwide
(as opposed to a couple of well-mapped cities), no thought about tablet
or phone access, no attempt at QA (to let people look at the impact
before becoming the new "standard layer").


How about assuming good intent and making suggestions on how to improve 
thing rather than starting by slagging off the people that are doing all 
the hard work to try and improve things?


It's pretty much impossible to tell in advance what the impact of any 
given change will be on every possible combination of tags that may have 
been used somewhere on earth.


Sure, it would be lovely to have a test server where changes could be 
tried before putting them live. We don't have infinite resources though.


Tom

--
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http://compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[SomeoneElse]

On 25/07/2014 14:03, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
From this description - I would tag it as highway=footway (as for 
public it is a footway and I guess that it is used

primarily as footway, not as a driveway)


It's not used primarily as a footway - it's primarily a track used to 
access farmland and a golf course.  However, foot traffic does have a 
legal right of way over it.  I am concerned, however, that we'll see the 
same sort of "tagging for the renderer" that we saw with abandoned 
railways after that change was made.


I do get the impression that these changes haven't really been thought 
through at all - no thought given to what the impact will be worldwide 
(as opposed to a couple of well-mapped cities), no thought about tablet 
or phone access, no attempt at QA (to let people look at the impact 
before becoming the new "standard layer").


We seem to have ended up with a layer that looks prettier, but is much 
less useful as an actual _map_ to help people navigate from one place to 
another.


Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2014-07-25 15:03 GMT+02:00 Mateusz Konieczny :

> From this description - I would tag it as highway=footway (as for public
> it is a footway and I guess that it is used
> primarily as footway, not as a driveway) with vehicle=private (as owner
> may use it this way). I am unsure about
> value of foot tag, but I probably would leave default value as footway.



I would tag this as highway=service, access=private, foot=yes because if it
can be used by car as a service way by the owner and his guests, it is a
service and not a footway.
The question isn't if is is used "primarily" as .

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Jóhannes Birgir Jensson]

Addendum: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951086 is a sport shop, 
only displayed as the address number as well.


On my screen I see a purple dot in zoom 19, the address number at zoom
18 and nothing in zoom 17. Before a liquor store was a basket with a 
wine bottle or

similar.

So I'm very confused now, are the carto changes partially alive or am I 
seeing different things to what others see - am I getting my tiles from 
a different server?


--Jói


Þann 25.07.2014 13:04, Mateusz Konieczny reit:

Both linked shops are displayed.

2014-07-25 14:59 GMT+02:00 Jóhannes Birgir Jensson :


I was under the impression more shops would be displayed than
previously?

So far I'm seeing fewer, a notable example being liquor stores that
have now vanished from visual.

Examples: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951075 [1]
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2125818740 [2]

Also worrying that amenity=clinic still isn't displayed with the
cross like pharmacy and others, in many rural places this is the
only healthcare around.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2303511227 [3]

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Links:
--
[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951075
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2125818740
[3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2303511227
[4] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Drones

[Peter Körner]

Hi

Absolutely Awsome!!

Regards, Peter

Am 25.07.2014 10:58, schrieb Pieren:
> Some humaniterian team is using a drone for OSM in Haiti since 2 years:
> http://cartong.org/project/communautary-mappinguav-project-haiti
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UAV-HAITI
> 
> Pieren
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Still, I think that it is better to use cascading tags - put as much
valuable info in basic tags (highway and access in this case)
so it is not be necessary to process all tags to achieve good results.

So "[highway=footway] it can be used by pedestrians", maybe
"[highway=footway; vehicle=private] it can
be used by pedestrians but some people may drive here" rather than
"[highway=track; access=private; foot=yes]
it is road for agricultural use but only owner may use but pedestrian may
always use so for public it is footway".

Obviously many tools that would be able to poperly process the first
situation will fail on the second tagging scheme.



2014-07-25 15:02 GMT+02:00 Andy Street :

> On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:41:44 +0200
> Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
>
> > IMHO it is a tagging error as it should be tagged as [highway=footway;
> > foot=permissive]
> > Using yes rather than permissive also seems to be wrong in this case.
>
> It isn't permissive as the landowner does not have the right to refuse
> access.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Andy Street
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Jóhannes Birgir Jensson]

On my screen I see a purple dot in zoom 19, the address number at zoom 
18 and nothing in zoom 17. Before I was a basket with a wine bottle or 
similar.


Þann 25.07.2014 13:04, Mateusz Konieczny reit:

Both linked shops are displayed.

2014-07-25 14:59 GMT+02:00 Jóhannes Birgir Jensson :


I was under the impression more shops would be displayed than
previously?

So far I'm seeing fewer, a notable example being liquor stores that
have now vanished from visual.

Examples: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951075 [1]
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2125818740 [2]

Also worrying that amenity=clinic still isn't displayed with the
cross like pharmacy and others, in many rural places this is the
only healthcare around.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2303511227 [3]

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Links:
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[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951075
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2125818740
[3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2303511227
[4] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Both linked shops are displayed.


2014-07-25 14:59 GMT+02:00 Jóhannes Birgir Jensson :

> I was under the impression more shops would be displayed than previously?
>
> So far I'm seeing fewer, a notable example being liquor stores that have
> now vanished from visual.
>
> Examples: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951075
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2125818740
>
> Also worrying that amenity=clinic still isn't displayed with the cross
> like pharmacy and others, in many rural places this is the only healthcare
> around.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2303511227
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

>From this description - I would tag it as highway=footway (as for public it
is a footway and I guess that it is used
primarily as footway, not as a driveway) with vehicle=private (as owner may
use it this way). I am unsure about
value of foot tag, but I probably would leave default value as footway.

Obviously, I am guessing here from partial information so I will not edit
this way.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/May+Lodge+Dr,+Newark,+Nottinghamshire+NG22+9DE,+UK/@53.172742,-1.043641,3a,75y,98.09h,77.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sn68ymucXmhGrdQIXSeTSKA!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x4879baf421f089cf:0x862c8d6e158f44f0?hl=en
was not helpful as either this image or OSM is outdated (I see no signs
here that would indicate access restrictions)

2014-07-25 14:49 GMT+02:00 SomeoneElse :

> On 25/07/2014 13:41, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>
>> IMHO it is a tagging error as it should be tagged as [highway=footway;
>> foot=permissive]
>> Using yes rather than permissive also seems to be wrong in this case.
>>
>>
> Is my "highway=track" example also a tagging error?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Andy Street]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:41:44 +0200
Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:

> IMHO it is a tagging error as it should be tagged as [highway=footway;
> foot=permissive]
> Using yes rather than permissive also seems to be wrong in this case.

It isn't permissive as the landowner does not have the right to refuse
access.

-- 
Regards,

Andy Street

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Jóhannes Birgir Jensson]

I was under the impression more shops would be displayed than 
previously?


So far I'm seeing fewer, a notable example being liquor stores that have 
now vanished from visual.


Examples: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2939951075
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2125818740

Also worrying that amenity=clinic still isn't displayed with the cross 
like pharmacy and others, in many rural places this is the only 
healthcare around.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2303511227

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Andy Street]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:16:34 +0200
Cartinus  wrote:

> No, it is not a tagging error. It is a direct result of the unholy
> mess created by the definition of the path tag. Often the only way to
> tag working access restrictions on highway=path, is to first close it
> with access=no/private and then opening it up with more specific tags
> like foot=permissive.

This really has nothing to do with "highway=path" as it could equally
apply to other tags including "highway=footway" and "highway=track".
The issue is that the style sheet does not take into account all access
tags but merely the most general "access" tag.

-- 
Regards,

Andy Street

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[SomeoneElse]

On 25/07/2014 13:41, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
IMHO it is a tagging error as it should be tagged as [highway=footway; 
foot=permissive]

Using yes rather than permissive also seems to be wrong in this case.



Is my "highway=track" example also a tagging error?

Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Andreas Goss]

Am 7/25/14 14:21 , schrieb Andy Street:

It's a public footpath i.e. private property over which the public has
been granted a right of access (on foot). Since everything but
pedestrian access is not permitted it therefore tagged as
"access=private", "foot=yes".


Not an expert here, but this sounds more like:

access=permissive - Open to general traffic until such time as the owner 
revokes the permission which they are legally allowed to do at any time 
in the future.

(+foot=yes...)

__
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wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88‎


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

IMHO it is a tagging error as it should be tagged as [highway=footway;
foot=permissive]
Using yes rather than permissive also seems to be wrong in this case.


2014-07-25 14:21 GMT+02:00 Andy Street :

> On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 13:58:18 +0200
> Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
>
> > It is a tagging error to tag public footways as access=private. Can
> > you give an example? It seems that I miss something in this case.
>
> It's a public footpath i.e. private property over which the public has
> been granted a right of access (on foot). Since everything but
> pedestrian access is not permitted it therefore tagged as
> "access=private", "foot=yes".
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Andy Street
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[SomeoneElse]

On 25/07/2014 13:21, Andy Street wrote:
It's a public footpath i.e. private property over which the public has 
been granted a right of access (on foot). Since everything but 
pedestrian access is not permitted it therefore tagged as 
"access=private", "foot=yes". 


This isn't Andy's example, but is a track near me that is part of a 
long-distance trail


http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/148162841

It's designated a public footpath and designated foot=yes.  It 
disappears from the map completely at Z14


Yes, I can highlight the trail on sites such as this:

http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14&lat=53.17307&lon=-1.03595&hill=0

but unfortunately this uses OSM "standard" tiles as the background, so 
the trail is running across a blank map!


Cheers,

(a different) Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Andy Street]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 13:58:18 +0200
Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:

> It is a tagging error to tag public footways as access=private. Can
> you give an example? It seems that I miss something in this case.

It's a public footpath i.e. private property over which the public has
been granted a right of access (on foot). Since everything but
pedestrian access is not permitted it therefore tagged as
"access=private", "foot=yes".

-- 
Regards,

Andy Street

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Cartinus]

No, it is not a tagging error. It is a direct result of the unholy mess 
created by the definition of the path tag. Often the only way to tag 
working access restrictions on highway=path, is to first close it with 
access=no/private and then opening it up with more specific tags like 
foot=permissive.


On 25-07-14 13:58, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

It is a tagging error to tag public footways as access=private. Can you
give an example? It seems that I miss something in this case.


2014-07-25 13:52 GMT+02:00 Andy Street :


On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:51:24 -0700
Paul Norman  wrote:


* Cleaning up path rendering on low zooms
(https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/747)


Is there any chance this could be tweaked slightly? A lot of the
public footpaths near me are now disappearing completely
at z13/z14 because they include "access=private" as part of their
access tagging.


---
m.v.g.,
Cartinus

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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

It is a tagging error to tag public footways as access=private. Can you
give an example? It seems that I miss something in this case.


2014-07-25 13:52 GMT+02:00 Andy Street :

> On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:51:24 -0700
> Paul Norman  wrote:
>
> > * Cleaning up path rendering on low zooms
> > (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/747)
>
> Is there any chance this could be tweaked slightly? A lot of the
> public footpaths near me are now disappearing completely
> at z13/z14 because they include "access=private" as part of their
> access tagging.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Andy Street
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Andy Street]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:51:24 -0700
Paul Norman  wrote:

> * Cleaning up path rendering on low zooms 
> (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/747)

Is there any chance this could be tweaked slightly? A lot of the
public footpaths near me are now disappearing completely
at z13/z14 because they include "access=private" as part of their
access tagging.

-- 
Regards,

Andy Street

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Re: [OSM-talk] #MapLesotho mapping happening now - Join in

[Dave Corley]

Can I ask that this be communicated out to any regional mailing lists that
people may be members of as my mails to these have been bouncing and I dont
want to join 50+ lists

Can I also ask that this be tweeted out on the @openstreetmap twitter as it
would be great to reach out to its 25,000 followers

Thanks to all those who have mapped so far today



>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:17:50 +0100
> From: Dave Corley 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-talk] #MapLesotho mapping happening now - Join in
> Message-ID:
>  0...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> So after 2 months of prep, several hundred tweets, emails and facebook
> posts we're finally here!
>
> Today is #MapLesotho day!
>
> There are mapping parties happening in:
>
>- Lesotho (2 locations)
>- Ireland
>- Poland
>- Germany
>- USA
>- Canada
>- UK
>
> To help out, go to either the urban or rural mapping task, take a tile and
> start mapping.
>
>- Urban Task (buildings, roads, major natural features) -
>http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/597
>- Rural Task (settlements, roads, major natural features) -
>http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/599
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20140725/f01fd241/attachment.html
> >
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] #MapLesotho mapping happening now - Join in

[Dave Corley]

Thanks Enock

Folks,

For those of you also on regional mailing lists, can I ask that you
communicate this message out on those lists also as my mails to those are
bouncing and I would rather not have to join 50+ mailing lists.

One of our big objectives here is to show (Lesotho officials) what can be
done through crowd sourcing and concerted efforts so the more people
mapping today the better.

Lastly, a massive thank you to all who have mapped so far today

Dave


On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Enock Seth Nyamador 
wrote:

> Thanks Dave!
>
> Will join from Ghana soon! :-)
>
> - Enock
> On Jul 25, 2014 10:26 AM, "Dave Corley"  wrote:
>
>> So after 2 months of prep, several hundred tweets, emails and facebook
>> posts we're finally here!
>>
>> Today is #MapLesotho day!
>>
>> There are mapping parties happening in:
>>
>>- Lesotho (2 locations)
>>- Ireland
>>- Poland
>>- Germany
>>- USA
>>- Canada
>>- UK
>>
>> To help out, go to either the urban or rural mapping task, take a tile
>> and start mapping.
>>
>>- Urban Task (buildings, roads, major natural features) -
>>http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/597
>>- Rural Task (settlements, roads, major natural features) -
>>http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/599
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] #MapLesotho mapping happening now - Join in

[Enock Seth Nyamador]

Thanks Dave!

Will join from Ghana soon! :-)

- Enock
On Jul 25, 2014 10:26 AM, "Dave Corley"  wrote:

> So after 2 months of prep, several hundred tweets, emails and facebook
> posts we're finally here!
>
> Today is #MapLesotho day!
>
> There are mapping parties happening in:
>
>- Lesotho (2 locations)
>- Ireland
>- Poland
>- Germany
>- USA
>- Canada
>- UK
>
> To help out, go to either the urban or rural mapping task, take a tile and
> start mapping.
>
>- Urban Task (buildings, roads, major natural features) -
>http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/597
>- Rural Task (settlements, roads, major natural features) -
>http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/599
>
>
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[OSM-talk] #MapLesotho mapping happening now - Join in

[Dave Corley]

So after 2 months of prep, several hundred tweets, emails and facebook
posts we're finally here!

Today is #MapLesotho day!

There are mapping parties happening in:

   - Lesotho (2 locations)
   - Ireland
   - Poland
   - Germany
   - USA
   - Canada
   - UK

To help out, go to either the urban or rural mapping task, take a tile and
start mapping.

   - Urban Task (buildings, roads, major natural features) -
   http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/597
   - Rural Task (settlements, roads, major natural features) -
   http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/599
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Re: [OSM-talk] Drones

[Pieren]

Some humaniterian team is using a drone for OSM in Haiti since 2 years:
http://cartong.org/project/communautary-mappinguav-project-haiti
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UAV-HAITI

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki translate extension

[Pieren]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 4:26 AM, Andreas Goss  wrote:

> But that concept is not really reality. There a dozen for German pages which
> are completely different from the English one, but both cover that topic in
> a way that is usefull for people who get to that page.
>
> The main advantage I see with keeping everything in one Wiki is that it is a
> lot easier to find tagging or translation mistakes.

Having one single wiki has some advantages:
- it's easier to maintain and small local communities have an
immediate access to localized pages
- it's enforcing the global community to work together and identify
what is working globally and what can be different locally.

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki translate extension

[Sylvain Maillard]

Hi,

the initial concern was about a page on the wiki in french that was older
than the english one, and with significant differences in a list of tags
(still landuse=basin rather than the "new" natural=water), the change on
the english page was made more than 1 year ago !
the "translate" extension can help to detect such kind of problem, even if
it is perhaps not the best ...

I think that what we really need is a tool to "link" parts a translated
page to the same part of the original page, so that when someone make
changes on the original page a message is displayed on the translated page
to alert on the possible de-synchronization of the content ...


Sylvain




2014-07-25 5:35 GMT+02:00 Andreas Goss :

> If there is country specific information about a tag then I would like
>> to be aware of it, as it could be useful for other countries/languages
>> too.
>>
>
> And if I open a DE :feature I would like to be presentet with the
> information relevant to my country in the first place.
>
> If I open DE:bicycle_something then I don't want to be presented with
> various signs that are used in the US, South Africa, Japan or Mexico. I
> want to see the sign that I saw on the ground in Germany and then how to
> tag it.
>
> So I want to see these signs:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cycling_signs_in_Germany
>
> And not these:
> http://www.trafficsign.us/bikesign.html
>
> If you want country relevant information on every translation then you do
> have to look though a dozen different signs 99.99% of the people reading
> that page are never goingto use. And those are sign that are easy to spot.
> Now make that text...
>
>  That could be as simple as copying it to the English language page
>> (marking it as requiring translation) or if it's longer providing a link on
>> the English language page.
>>
>
> You are still going to present me with a lot of information that is not
> usefull for my country. And it will get worse once you try to translate
> non-English pages back. From German to Englisch you are then going to get
> funny stuff like [PLEASE DON'T CONFUSE evangelical with evangelical!!!]
>
> __
> openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88
> wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88
>
>
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