[OSM-talk] Wikimapia data now under cc-by-sa

[Arun Ganesh]

Before you get all excited, I do not think its what it sounds like. See the
official announcement here:
http://wikimapia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=9878

I'm not certain what this 'wikimapia data' is or where it can be downloaded
from. But it seems to be that this could be the placemark content-  titles,
descriptions, images and comments, but not the geographical coordinates. I
have seen numerous cases where the description and images have just been
copied from wikipedia and this license change is probably an attempt at
conforming with the cc-by-sa license.

If this data covers the geographical coordinates which have been derived
from google maps service, then it doesnt make any sense. Can someone
clarify?


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[OSM-talk] Lost tags

[Arun Ganesh]

What was the license status of tags added by an odbl-compliant user on
geometries created by a user who declined?

While its ok for the geometries to be deleted, it does not seem right that
the tags are deleted as well. It is after all the work of someone who has
agreed to relicense his work/contributed knowledge.

It is quite painful to see that countless hours of effort has been deleted
for no fault of my own. Is this just the result of the osm data model where
tags cannot exist without geometries, or were these tags considered as
being dirty and were legally supposed to be erased?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Lost tags

[Arun Ganesh]

On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 23:39:56 +0530
> Arun Ganesh  wrote:
> > It is quite painful to see that countless hours of effort has been
> > deleted for no fault of my own. Is this just the result of the osm
> > data model where tags cannot exist without geometries, or were these
> > tags considered as being dirty and were legally supposed to be erased?
>
> I think the former is correct.
>

This is good news for a start. We essentially have a UI problem, and if
solved, will help getting back the most useful bits of the lost data back
into osm.


>
> If you go through the history planet file and create a list that goes:
>
> "somewhere in the world there is a way that has the properties
> name=Bingbong Street, maxspeed=30" (provided that both these properties
> were added by agreers) then it would be ok to publish that list and
> even use it to add to OSM. I don't see how it can be much help though,
> especially if it contains info like "somewhere in the world there is an
> object with wheelchair=yes and opening_times=so-and-so" ;)
>

The most easily identifiable data that I see are those that have name tags.
What if you have a list view alongside a map, which is populated based on
your current view and zoom level?

For ways, this can have additional information like the length of the way
and orientation to assist mappers who lost their tags to identify where the
original way was.

For POIs, you could have the name of the street beside which it was located
and also distance and orientation from the nearest place=* node

There are probably better ideas, but its an absolute shame that clean and
extremely valuable data is lost because the data model does not support its
existence.


>
> Bye
> Frederik
>



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[OSM-talk] OSM Data layers

[Arun Ganesh]

The import guideline thread spam got me thinking about how such an issue
could be solved cleanly. I have forever had a problem with the OSM data
being one big blob instead of using all that semantic information to group
and organize the objects.

There are a host of issues like importing datasets without breaking
existing data and also the case of historical mapping. I'm no computer
scientist nor have I been following mails to know if this was already
discussed before, but I put down some fantasies I had about a future osm
data layer model on the wiki:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Layers

Once again, I have no technical knowledge to reply to any questions on how
this will work, but I hope someone can take something out from it and fix
OSM for the better.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Multiple Layers for OSM

[Arun Ganesh]

I had started this page a few days back to write down the ideas I have had
on OSM layers for quite a while:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Layers

It would be a good idea to list out the different approaches to the layer
problem on the wiki so that we can compare ideas.

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Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org

[Arun Ganesh]

Resources invested in hosting various useful tile layers and tools would
only help in getting more people to switch to openstreetmaps and support
the project.

Why can't we have a larger donation drive and support such services which
are central to the project and helps its growth?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Admin boundaries - data consumers

[Arun Ganesh]

> In my opinion this is an example where OSM data is broken and should be
> fixed.
>
> Andrew
>
>
 In India the law requires that the external boundaries of the country
include parts of Kashmir that is now under control of foreign countries.
This regularly causes issues when OSM is demoed publicly at institutes or
to government officials. Also the startup community is apprehensive of
using openstreetmap because of this issue.

In this case, its the law that is broken, but adapting OSM to be able to
handle such political challenges is more feasible than fixing the law.

Google, Bing and other map providers display a different set of boundaries
based on the laws of the user's country. But for OSM, it would probably a
very simple solution if we have a lowzoom tileset which don't have any
international borders. Would that be a good idea?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Admin boundaries - data consumers

[Arun Ganesh]

> Easy: take everything from OSM but the borders and supply your own
> favourite borders from a separate source with a nice big Indian
> government stamp on it. Render to taste.
>

Having new tile layer on osm.org that does not have any international
boundaries (or hiding those that are disputed)  would solve the issue much
more easily rather than requiring everyone affected to setup their own
tileservers. This issue affects half the global internet population and is
a definite barrier against the global adoption of this project.

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[OSM-talk] Visualizing mapping history of an area

[Arun Ganesh]

Are there any tools available to make an animation of the mapping progress
of an area over a few months, like the party render[1]? This is to showcase
the work of college students from a tribal area in India where OSM was
introduced as a lab activity.

The area of interest is a small town called Talasari, north of Mumbai [2].
The students had very low experience with computers and most had to start
from creating email ids. The area was blank a couple of months ago, so it
will be interesting to see how the mapping progressed over time. Any
resources to do this will be appreciated, since I could not find anything
on the wiki except proposals[3].

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Party_render
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/20.12429/72.91856
[3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/History_API_and_Database

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Re: [OSM-talk] Visualizing mapping history of an area

[Arun Ganesh]

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:

>
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Arun Ganesh wrote:
>
>> The area of interest is a small town called Talasari, north of Mumbai
>> [2]. The students had very low experience with computers and most had to
>> start from creating email ids. The area was blank a couple of months ago,
>> so it will be interesting to see how the mapping progressed over time. Any
>> resources to do this will be appreciated, since I could not find anything
>> on the wiki except proposals[3].
>
>
> Check out ITO World visualization tools. www.itoworld.com - I don't
> believe you can go back in time, but you can capture edits going forward.
> However it only captures ways and not nodes. They have tutorial to help you
> get started.
>

Thanks for the lead. Its a bit disappointing that this isn't possible. Any
idea if there is an outdated (>6months) mapnik render somewhere that I
could use to go back in osm time?


>
> Clifford
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] Visualizing mapping history of an area

[Arun Ganesh]

On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Ben Abelshausen
wrote:

> What about this tool:
>
> https://github.com/MaZderMind/osm-history-renderer/
>
> A nice writeup here:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/diary/21826
>

Excellent, this looks like exactly what I was looking for. Thank you Ben!

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[OSM-talk] Status of Field Papers

[Arun Ganesh]

Hello from India! As part of a national digital literacy program my team
has been experimenting with using fieldpapers[1] to introduce mapping to
students from rural areas.

However it looks like the service is currently down and atlas generation
has not been possible over the past few days. This has brought our training
program to an abrupt halt.

Given the tremendous educational value of field papers, it would be welcome
if the OSMF could support running such a service to make it more reliable
and an integrated part of the osm.org homepage.

Unfortunately we don't have the technical resources to fork the project at
the moment, but it would be greatly appreciated if anyone can provide
alternate solutions in the short term to continue to use field papers or a
similar service to get more people to map.

[1] http://fieldpapers.org/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Status of Field Papers

[Arun Ganesh]

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 7:20 AM, Alan McConchie 
wrote:

> Atlas creation on Field Papers is back up again! Sorry everyone for the
> extended downtime!
>
>
Wonderful, thank you for the effort!

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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Arun Ganesh]

Some thoughts from a developing country - India. Maps have had a
controversial role to play in the modern history of much of the Indian
subcontinent, as a tool created and controlled by those who came ashore
from the west. OSM has made it possible for the first time in history for
the common citizen to control their map.  The right to access, create and
modify this map equally among everyone is what is most important. Someone
from the west has every right to trace some Indian town just as someone
from India has to update a new development in well mapped Europe.
Unfortunately there is still great inequality in the ability to access this
map.

In India there is no fledging OSM community mainly because priorities in
life are different. One does not get the leisure time here to contribute to
the map and make it a social hobby like in Europe. Moreover the project is
almost unknown because the maps are empty compared to Google and has very
few users and fewer contributors.

Over many years, I have remotely traced major road networks of Indian
cities and towns which I now see has road details slowly coming in form
local and tourist mappers. Rural areas are yet to see any local activity.

Maps are a relatively new concept in Indian society and is still used only
by a small minority in urban areas in daily life. Naturally one cannot
expect strong OSM communities at this stage till maps gain wider
reach. Remote mapping in cases like this can serve to catalyze the process
by making the maps more attractive to use. I happened to talk about a few
of these points in my lightning talk at SOTMUS last week which might give
more context on mapping in India:

https://youtu.be/4fK_cWhCQbE?t=22m1s

Devoting more resources to make these maps and tools accessible to the
common person would be more fruitful than worrying about colonizing
countries by remote mapping.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[Arun Ganesh]

> Not at all. I'm asking a contributor who feels that his local
community is not very strong if there's anything specific he thinks
could improve things.

The very simple answer is that most people who know English and can afford
a smartphone already use Google maps which work reasonably well in India.
OSM is atleast 10 years behind in coverage and there is just a handful like
me who have the luxury of free time who can see the long term benefits of
contributing to open source. To the rest, they already have working maps,
so why bother.

What is changing the scenario is some popular classified services switching
to OSM, but they do this at a big risk, because the data is really poor.
Another is the recent open source policy approved by the government which
makes gives localized open source software the preference in new
e-governance applications. Also the education system is looking at mapping
as an activity for learning about computers and the environment.

Change is happening, but its going to take a few years till there is
visible traction in community growth.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM in India

[Arun Ganesh]

> Fair enough. Although a quick mapcompare session shows that GM has
> nowhere near the quality that it has in Europe/America, so it should
> be less work for OSM to overtake GM in India than it took in Europe (I
> know, if the community is tiny, "less overall work" is still way more
> work for each individual).
>
Businesses throughout the country want to list themselves on GM to get more
customers. I have been to remote parts of the country where hoteliers or
shop owners ask me how they can be listed. This POI database is massive and
along with it comes address information which is data gold in India for
geocoding. There is low business incentive for anyone to list themselves on
OSM, moreover the computer skills to do that is lacking by most people. If
there were more users of openstreetmap, this can change quickly.


> You point out an interesting bit of information though: GM is for
> English speakers. Do you render a Hindi (and other languages)
> slippymap ? Provide Hindi OSMand and Garmin maps ? That might catch
> the attention of many users. In Ireland we have an all-Gaelic map
> (
> http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/?zoom=9&layers=00BFF&lat=52.92847&lon=-7.65252
> )
> that attracts people from outside OSM.
>

Its a given that most users of new technology in the country are familiar
with English, or atleast the Latin alphabet. One may not be able to speak
the language but can easily read street signs and it is more familiar than
localized signage. We have had trials with localized maps
http://yogiks.github.io/osm-kn/map/ but apart from being good PR they have
limited practical use in daily life.

We would need to support 22 languages and in offline mediums to make the
maps truly accessible to most of the people. Till then maps will continue
to be used only by a small class of the population..


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Re: [OSM-talk] Guides to improve navigation data in OpenStreetMap

[Arun Ganesh]

>
> this means that all turn:lanes, change:lanes, access:lanes,
> forward:lanes, backward:lanes, etc. should count ALL lanes


Turn lanes meant for a turn in a particular direction at the junction. I'm
not sure if the concept of a turn lane extends to a cycle?

The turn lane data should provide enough information to a car driver on
which lane to take for a turn. Its obviously important to know the presence
of a cycle lane in between the car turn lanes for proper guidance, and the
main questions is if the `turn:lane` key is suitable for capturing this
data.

Arun

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[OSM-talk] Detailed tagging scheme for railways - India

[Arun Ganesh]

I recently got addicted to mapping the railway network in India in detail
using landsat imagery. Since i wasnt able to find any other railway mapping
project which specified detailed mapping conventions, i came up with my own
scheme which i've compiled here:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/India/Railways

I'm pretty much done with the part for the permanent way tags. So i thought
i'd toss it around to get some feedback and make amendments to it. Most of
it seems pretty logical till now. Also the graphic that i made is my
suggestions for the mapnik rendering of railway tags for the sidings and
freight lines. Let me know what you guys think.

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Re: [OSM-talk] International Boundaries from Department of State

[Arun Ganesh]

Regarding the administrative boundaries, why is there no mention of the GADM
dataset[1] as a potential data source? Its the most accurate and detailed
public domain set of worldwide boundaries that I have come across.

[1]http://www.gadm.org/

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Re: [OSM-talk] International Boundaries from Department of State

[Arun Ganesh]

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Chris Hill  wrote:

> The terms of use say only for non-commercial use, which is not acceptable
> for use in OSM
>
>
Ah missed that, the page on wikipedia said public domain. There's
surprisingly scarce info about the GADM project, no mention of sources, how
it was done, or the people behind it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Here's what they do in Korea

[Arun Ganesh]

I am totally blown away by the level of detail provided by the map
providers in Korea. Even the navigation devices they use in almost any
vehicle is of a much higher level than anything I have seen outside. As the
car approaches a flyover or a junction, the device actually renders a 3d
view of the area from the pov of the vehicle, with detailed buildings,
trees and lighting to match the time of the day. Each lane of the road is
marked with turn restrictions and speed limits.

All the gloating we do of the capabilities of osm fades in comparison to
what's been achieved here. We are years away from reaching such a level
where it will possible to crowdsource data to such a detailed level in a
consistent manner.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:00 PM,  wrote:

>
>
> http://local.daum.net/map/index.jsp?t__nil_navi=bestmain&nil_id=map
>
> http://map.naver.com/
>
> Even if you don't read Korean you can still appreciate the scope and scale
> of
> their undertaking.  The datasets are also unique- take a look at the same
> area from the different providers.  Click on various icons to see aerial
> photos and Daum's street view.  Also provided: route planning, traffic
> density, and the weather for the chunk of map you are looking at.  Oh, and
> as
> well as the distance and journey time the route planner will tell you the
> taxi fare you would have to pay.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew
>
>


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[OSM-talk] osmosis pbf issues

[Arun Ganesh]

I have been trying to process pbf files without luck in osmosis. When i
run:
osmosis --read-pbf india.osm.pbf --write-xml india.osm
osmosis quits with:
SEVERE: Execution aborted.
org.openstreetmap.osmosis.core.OsmosisRuntimeException: Task type read-pbf
doesn't exist.

I installed osmosis 0.39 using 'apt-get intall osmosis'
I used to get the same error when i used osmosis from
http://bretth.dev.openstreetmap.org/osmosis-build/osmosis-latest.zip a
month ago

How do i get pbf to work? i dont see any help in the wiki either.
cheers


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[OSM-talk] Imagery parallax error in high altitude areas

[Arun Ganesh]

It recently struck me while identifying mountain peaks in the himalayas
that something may not be right. All of us have noticed that the top of
skyscrapers is off from the base of the building owing to parallax error of
the satellite capturing the image at an angle. The average seems to be
around a 0.2m displacement for every 1m increase in height (based on
calculations made in a couple of cities in India). For an imagery tile
which has 1000m variation in elevation, various objects could be displaced
by as much as 200m from its real position.

This means that tracing mountain roads, streams and peak from imagery would
inherit significant parallax error displacement and there is no easy way of
accurately offsetting the imagery before tracing either. Has anyone done
any analysis on how bad such errors can be?

PS: I thought i'd look at the case of Mt Everest, which not surprisingly
has been marked using the high res bing imagery. I compared it with the
coords on wikipedia and there seems to be a difference of around 50m [1]. I
was expecting more displacement, but then again I dont know how accurate
the wikipedia coords are, If its based on google imagery, its got some
parallax error again.

[1]
http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?mlat=27.988056&mlon=86.925278&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF

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Re: [OSM-talk] Detecting unwanted edits and vandalism

[Arun Ganesh]

Its the edits that mess up the existing data and make it difficult to undo
that are most undesirable:

1) If the user is new, these would usually be in the first few changesets:
a) untagged ways not connected to anything
b) ways that are shifted
c) single node shifted way out of place
d) untagged nodes
e) deleted ways and nodes (delete, i think should be disabled for users<10
changesets)
f) deleted tags
g) ALL CAPS in name tags
h) capitalization in tags eg. Amenity=Bank
i) incorrect tagging for names: eg. bank='Scotland Bank'
j) ways not properly connected to other ways
k) ways drawn on top of other ways

2) For experienced users:
a) Shifted ways
b) Way nodes aligned to a line without checking
c) Ways with unfixed tags because of merging
d) Accidentally deleted objects

In general, i think an effective way to fight vandalism is to have some
kind of review for the edits of new users, especially the first changeset.
Also give very experienced editors with certain numbers of edits some extra
power like the ability to block a user or place his edits on review.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Imagery parallax error in high altitude areas

[Arun Ganesh]

>
> It's not as bad as it seems. Imagery is adjusted using an elevation

dataset. Since this data doesn't (and shouldn't) include buildings and

bridges, these appear distorted. You'll also see problems where recent

heavy construction has caused changes in topography.


Yes, but every pixel is not corrected. An imagery tile of 1km x 1km would
possibly be corrected for the average elevation in the area, but in
mountainous terrain, the variation in elevation above and below the average
would mean that many parts of the tile that we see are actually slightly
offset from the actual position.

Is there an accurate source for the coordinates of mountain peaks? We can
check how bad the parallax errors are on the satellite imagery.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Arun Ganesh]

Well put stevea!
Lets not forget what originally brought many of us here together (at least
from my interactions with many of you in real life), a dream that humans
could create the most accurate representation of the world through open
collaboration.The support of FB massively increases the surface area of the
OSM project to touch more humans through a single window than any other
mediums we can currently imagine.

Most of the world is still under represented in the hobby/craftmapper group
that is the dominant voice of this list and forum. More people from smaller
cities and towns have gotten involved in OSM in India/South Asia from FB
groups than other channels simply because its more easily accessible and
has a greater reach to a largely phone based internet population.

This is an opportunity to figure out a meaningful way to collaborate
constructively, and if its not happening in the way it should be, the
priority is to figure out how to facilitate that conversation in a
productive way. Making this a hobbyist vs corporate battle will just close
the door on a lot of the world which deserves to benefit from this project
and our collective work, and this is a world very different from what is
represented today on this list. How many know that as you read this, over
11 million people (thats the population of Belgium) are displaced in active
floods in India at this moment? FB/Whatsapp are what most people are using
to communicate and coordinate on the ground, they wouldn't care if it was a
corporate pariah or not as long as it works and can be used to help each
other.

If theres any place where volunteers who take pains to survey their
neighborhoods in great detail and make maps should be talking to first
responders in natural disasters and figure out best ways to collaborate
this is the place. Sure, corporates may be driven by profit, but behind
those layers and PR and AI, its still humans who sweat it out and
ultimately trying to build a better world using technology.

Full disclosure that i grew and managed one of the first organized
corporate mapping teams on OSM. You can call me a wonk or a paid agent and
thats fine, it wont stop me from tracing glaciers from satellite imagery in
the Himalayas in my free time and figuring out how it can help more people
on the ground. And yes, those glaciers have probably melted away and theres
no practical way to ground truth them, hopefully no one is annoyed at me
for that.
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