[OSM-legal-talk] having anonymous internet users editing the map
Hi there, there is a plan to publish a map where anybody can edit OSM. The data is not forwarded to the OSM database directly but written into .osm files for upload with JOSM. The upload is planned to be done manually with a single user account. I am worried that web users (or even commercial map providers) might add copyrighted data. Is the uploader reliably? I guess yes. What will happen to him? * A bot to revert the edits? * A suspended account? * Any legal consequences. The map is a cool idea and great realization. As the topic of the map is discussed controversely, vandalism is likely to happen, I am afraid. I expect that there will be so many edits that the uploader will not be able to check the data before upload. The uploader is resistent against my warnings. (YES. Against MY warnings... ;-) ) Help! Regards Lulu-Ann -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] (Non-)smoking map online
Hi, http://www.opengastromap.org shows amenities and if smoking is permitted, including edit functionality. Regards Lulu-Ann -- GMX DSL: Internet-, Telefon- und Handy-Flat ab 19,99 EUR/mtl. Bis zu 150 EUR Startguthaben inklusive! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] You have killed accessibility!
Since today the wiki can not be edited any more calculating plus or minus, now you have to be able to see a captcha image. There is no accessibility feature like acoustic output. Revert immediately!!! You are inhibiting our blind contributors to stay with us!!! Lulu-Ann ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] You have killed accessibility!
There is a possibility to have captchas with audio output. You can not just kick out all blind contributors, they are not blind by choice. We don't kick out all Ivans either, shall we? Regards Lulu-Ann Original-Nachricht > Datum: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 20:50:34 +0200 > Von: "Iván Sánchez Ortega" > An: talk@openstreetmap.org > CC: Lulu-Ann , accessibility > > Betreff: Re: [OSM-talk] You have killed accessibility! > On Thursday 01 July 2010 20:20:55 Lulu-Ann wrote: > > You are inhibiting our blind contributors to stay with us!!! > > We're also inhibiting the spammers, who are a nuisance just right now. > > User block didn't work, and IP block didn't work, so the wiki admins were > forced to implement captchas. > > > > -- > -- > Iván Sánchez Ortega > > -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Thanks - Wiki is accessible again
Hi, thank you for the quick reaction. The wiki is now again accessible for the blind, the captcha has an alternative audio function. Great! Best regards Lulu-Ann ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Unnamed footways for pedestrian navigation
Hi, when using OSM for a pedestrian navigation for blind persons, the following problem appears: * There are unnamed foodways (in the woods). * When navigating, crossings can only be named like "unnamed footway crossing with unnamed footway". * Using the OSM id of the way is not usable and when the way is split the ID changes. I would like to add loc_name-tags for this and name ways like "footway from village A to B, west of footway crossing in MyWoodName" Any suggestions? Wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:name#Name_needed_for_unnamed_paths Cheers Lulu-Ann -- GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Tactile Paving - Pflastersteine für B lindenstöcke
Hello, please have a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tactile_paving Thanks. Lulu-Ann -- Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss für nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Request for comments: Lifts / Elevators
Hello, please pay attention for this proposal which is already in use: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Lifts Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tactile_paving=yes/(no)/irritating] Feature Proposal - RFC - (tactile paving)"
Hello, please pay attention for another proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tactile_paving This is aboutd special pavement in the ground to guide persons using a blindman's stick. This will be used for instance at bus_stops. Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [Talk-de] [highway=elevator] Feature Proposal - RFC - Lifts / Elevators
Hello, please pay attention for this proposal which is already in use: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Lifts Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss für nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dslspecial.gmx.de/freedsl-surfflat/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a ___ Talk-de mailing list talk...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] German federal states [was:SQL]
> From: Torsten Mohr > Subject: [OSM-talk] SQL > But no matter what i do, i don't find "Bayern" and "Sachsen". I do > find "Th?ringen" but it is not drawn when used in "osm.xml". Hello Thorsten, the hint might be http://dict.leo.org (German: Baden-Württemberg English: Baden-Württemberg German: Sachsen English: Saxony ...) Hope my guess is right. Bye Lulu-Ann -- Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss für nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dslspecial.gmx.de/freedsl-surfflat/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Tactile_paving=yes/(no) Feature Proposal voting has started
Hello list, please vote on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/tactile_paving Two projects have been started to make OSM accessible for the blind - please support! thanks. Lulu-Ann -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Accessibility
Hello list, there is a new mailing list available for OSM. The topic is accessibility. It will be discussed... * How to create non visual maps for the blind and visual impaired * New tags that allow to map objects of special interest for disabled persons * New maps that contain information about barriers like steps for wheelchair users * Special routing, like wheelchair routing or pedestrian routing for the blind * New maps that contain worthful information like theatres with subtitles for the deaf or braille writing signs or acoustic traffic lights for the blind * Data exchange to the navigation tool "Loadstone-GPS" for the blind ... and whatever you think fits to the subject. Subscribe here: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/accessibility I will be at the State of the Map, you can meet me there. Mail me or use my email address to contact me on skype. Please forward this information to your disabled or interested friends. CU in Amsterdam Lulu-Ann -- Neu: GMX Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Search field on www.openstreetmap.org
Hi there, on the SotM09 there was agreement that the search field should be visible at the upper left of the screen in all screen resolutions on http://www.openstreetmap.org . This is not realized yet. Who can do it, please? Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] New dimension of vandalism
There was a change on the highway key wiki page, that interferes with the concept presented here. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=Key%3Ahighway&diff=317630&oldid=317451 User Dieterdreist has changed the description so the highway tag is no longer used for the objective physical description but for a subjective feeling of "importance". Millions of highway tags would need to be reviewed if this change without proposal and approval would become valid. Two important aspect of routing, the estimation of time to arrival and finding the fastest route, will fail if the highway tag does not stick to physical facts. Several other established or proposed tags like maxspeed defaults are negatively affected by changing the highway concept of tagging. New OSM contributors learn bad practice from the start when the first tag they learn is switched from hard facts so unsure estimation. Probably new users have already done large damage to the map by mapping or changing highway tags from the facts to the feeling schema, resulting in worse quality of calculated routes. IMHO this is a new dimension of vandalism. I don't think that this is done by concurring commercial map providers, but this subtile method of weakening the OSM tagging schema and therefor lowering the quality of OSM data would be a really cool attack against OSM, because it is not possible to search for and revert such changes systematically. I think that we, the community, should not accept such severe changes made to extremely used and highly established without the proposal + approval workflow. I ask you to support the reverting of the unapproved changes in the wiki and in the mailing lists. I also think we need a consensus that tag descriptions for tags that are used more than 100.000 times shall not be changed without a proposal. Regards Lulu-Ann -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New dimension of vandalism
Hi Frederik, > lulu-...@gmx.de wrote: > > There was a change on the highway key wiki page, that interferes with > > the concept presented here. > > Have you read the following relevant thread on talk-de: > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2009-August/052258.html > > Since both you and dieterdreist are speakers of German, I'm surprised > that you didn't speak up when the issue was raised on talk-de three > weeks ago and now start a discussion on this list. That is because I, other than you, personally like the wiki better than the list. I have been talking with several people about it and they recommended to put the topic back on the list. Maybe late, but hopefully not too late. > > IMHO this is a new dimension of vandalism. > > The acronym "IMHO" is not well placed if you throw around such > accusations. What you're saying here is not a "humble" opinion. I wanted to say that this is my opinion. Sorry if the abbreviation was not chosen to your satisfaction. I am not a native speaker. > > I also think we need a consensus that tag descriptions for tags that > > are used more than 100.000 times shall not be changed without a > > proposal. > > That seemed to be the consensus on talk-de as well (or at least "without > prior discussion", not necessarily on the Wiki - personally I dislike > proposals, discussions and voting on the Wiki). I counted 4 pro "votes" on the talk list - I do not consider this to be commen consensus. As Dieterdreist wrote himself, he considers his changes as a proposal. All I demand is that it is treated as one, and people who only read rfc threads in this mailing list because of a lack of time have the chance to take notice. Dieter and any other supporter of the concept is free to start a proposal to change the most important tag of all. But please stay in the common conventions for such an important change and give *all* users the chance to vote, and do not make changes on the wiki because of an agreement of few persons on the mailing list(s). Regards, Lulu-Ann -- Neu: GMX Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How to get a notification email for a change on a watched wiki page
Hi Mike, > 2. Wiki vs mailing list: I use both - but the mailing list appears > automatically in my in-tray every day and gets read whenever I have time > to > log on; the wiki seems to need me to watch a particular page and, simple > person that I am, I haven't found out how to get changes notified to me - > probably missed a 'watch this page' link or something! Whichever one > prefers, common courtesy perhaps dictates that before making major changes > to the wiki a check is also made with the mailing list community - > overlapping but not identical. Here is how to get a notification email: 1. Put the pages on your watch list 2. Go to your preferences and configure your tab watch list. 3. On the first tab in your preferences you can choose to get emails for changes on pages on your watch list. Regards Lulu-An -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New dimension of vandalism
e much time, read my changes history, there were also some reverts needed. I was always advised to make a proposal as far as I remember, and not to put it on the list. It really seems that we have a devided group of contributors, some on the wiki, some on the list and some in both. We need to reach all. The wiki proposal workflow does. > > I think that we, the community, should not accept such severe changes > made to extremely used and highly established without the proposal + approval > workflow. > > I ask you to support the reverting of the unapproved changes in the wiki > >and in the mailing lists. > > Did you set up a proposal to do so, that I can vote about? I did not change anything, I do not need a proposal. You want to change, you write the proposal. Or anybody of your supporters, if you say that is common usage, I wonder why it has not be done already by anyone. > > I also think we need a consensus that tag descriptions for tags that are > > used more than 100.000 times shall not be changed without a proposal. > OK, I agree (and I would set the limit not to 10 but maybe 2000). > But I am not sure, if the wiki is a better place than the > mailing-lists to do so. I just wrote: "2000 is OK for me, let's have a look at tagwatch what would be included then." And then I had a look at tagwatch, and I found that only in Germany the top UNdocumented tag is used far over 100.000 times. addr:housenumber344191 I guess we better choose a far higher number for worldwide documented tags. Let's say the top 50 documented tags shall not be editable without a proposal for the beginning, and take the number from #50 ? Too much, too little? (PS: I keep the subject to keep the thread in one. I take back the "vandalism". OK?) Bye, Lulu-Ann -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Routing over barrier nodes
Currently the problem with routing is, that routing applications can not check for millions of nodes, but only for thousands of ways without performace problems. That results in the problem, that for example barrier bollards in the middle of the road can not be considered. I recommend to add a route_nodes=yes or router:check_nodes=yes to such ways, so that the routing software can check only the ways in first run and then check the nodes on ways only where this is set. Comments? Lulu-Ann -- Neu: GMX Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind
Hello list members, starting today there is a visual slippy map displaying map features for the blind an visually impaired available in a beta testing state: http://freenet-homepage.de/rapunzely/OSM/blindmap.html Hobby cartographers without visual impairment can now check their contributions to the map for the blind, what will give them motivation. That is how the map will force the adding of tags relevant for tactile maps and navigation software for the blind as the next steps. The two tags "tactile paving" and "traffic_signals:sound" are already surprisingly often used. Thank you to all contributors! More tags will be added from time to time. Please spread this information to your interested friends and colleagues. Regards Lulu-Ann ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind
Hello list, hello andrzej, > What tag would you use for bus/tram stops with a "i" button that reads > out the information about trams soonest to arrive, aloud? I have never seen those before. Not proposed yet, but I guess many things need explanation, so I would tag it like that: tourism=information information=acoustic_textinformation=acoustic_text description:en:blind=There is an information button that reads out schedule times Where "en" stands for language English. Any other suggestions? Regards Lulu-Ann ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind
> >> What tag would you use for bus/tram stops with a "i" button that reads > >> out the information about trams soonest to arrive, aloud? > > > > I have never seen those before. > > > > Not proposed yet, but I guess many things need explanation, > > so I would tag it like that: > > > > tourism=information > > information=acoustic_text > > description:en:blind=There is an information button that reads out > > schedule times > > It doesn't seem like a tourism thing to me, wouldn't they be designed > for people that live in the area? Well, ordinary maps and tactile maps are used by people living in that area, too, but the "information" tag is placed in "tourism". That does not matter, because we can display elements from any namespaces on any map. Regards Lulu-Ann -- Neu: GMX DSL bis 50.000 kBit/s und 200,- Euro Startguthaben! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind
Original-Nachricht > Datum: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:57:18 +0200 > Von: Martin Koppenhoefer > An: lulu-...@gmx.de > CC: accessibil...@openstreetmap.org, talk@openstreetmap.org, > tagg...@openstreetmap.org > Betreff: Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind > 2009/10/12 : > >> >> What tag would you use for bus/tram stops with a "i" button that > reads > >> >> out the information about trams soonest to arrive, aloud? > >> > > >> > I have never seen those before. > >> > > >> > Not proposed yet, but I guess many things need explanation, > >> > so I would tag it like that: > >> > > >> > tourism=information > >> > information=acoustic_text > >> > description:en:blind=There is an information button that reads out > >> > schedule times > >> > >> It doesn't seem like a tourism thing to me, wouldn't they be designed > >> for people that live in the area? > > > > Well, ordinary maps and tactile maps are used by people living in that > area, too, but the "information" tag is placed in "tourism". > > That does not matter, because we can display elements from any > namespaces on any map. > > while this is true, it might still facilitate life for editor-creators > and data-consumers as for mappers to have all these kind of tag > subsummarized in one big tag like k=disabled v=* or k=accessibility, > v=* so you can easily find them in one rubrique instead of searching > all over the wiki in different tags and pages. I would love to agree, but the needs of disabled persons are widely spread over our tagging scheme anyway, and awareness of objects that refer to accessibility is nearly zero. There are categories for visual, hearing and walking impariment, colletcted in the category "accessibiliy". The ":blind" in my proposal as a postfix was an idea to approach what you recommend. Regards Lulu-Ann -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Taggin for the blind [was: Re: Visual map for the blind]
Lulu-Ann wrote: > > I would love to agree, but the needs of disabled persons are widely > spread over our tagging scheme anyway, and awareness of objects that refer to > accessibility is nearly zero. > > There are categories for visual, hearing and walking impariment, > colletcted in the category "accessibiliy". > > > > The ":blind" in my proposal as a postfix was an idea to approach what > you recommend. John proposed: > accessibility:blind=* ? This does not help. Tell me the values, and I can tell you if they might work. I guess we will reach all non graphics interfaces, if we use description:language-abbrev.:blind = Description text in whole sentences. so any device can read out a full sentence on the found accessibility means. Regards Lulu-Ann -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3.5 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] RFC: Disability Description
Hi, please have a look at my new proposal DisabilityDescription: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/DisabilityDescription It allows you to provide information of special interest to disabled persons. Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Sarah Kreuz, die DSDS-Siegerin der Herzen, mit ihrem eindrucksvollen Debütalbum "One Moment in Time". http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/musik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Request for comments: amenity=charity
Hi, I would like to request your comments for my new proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/charity Thanks. Lulu-Ann -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3.5 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Disability Description - voting started
Hello lists, the voting has started on the feature Disability Description. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/DisabilityDescription This is planned to be rendered on http://www.accessiblemaps.org Regards Lulu-Ann ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] New map feature "disability description"
Hello list, I am happy to announce that there is a new tag approved for the OpenStreetMap to store free text about an object that is relevant for disabled persons. The tags are blind:description:lg wheelchair:description:lg and deaf:description:lg where "lg" is the two letter code for the language in which the text is written. For instance you can inform deaf people about subtitles in cinemas, you can inform hearing impaired about functionality in theatres and churches how to use the hearing device, you can inform blind people about overhead dangers or audiodescriptions, you can inform wheelchair drivers about the door width of an elevator and many more things that just don't fit in a tag. You find the proposal and voting on this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/DisabilityDescription Regards Lulu-Ann ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Request for comments: Playground Equipment Proposal
Hi there, this is not my proposal, but as RfC was forgotten I ask for your comments now. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Playground_Equipment Regards Lulu-Ann -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (maxspeed = none)
Please add your comments to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/maxspeed_none maxspeed=none shall be used on highway=motorway if no speed limit at all applies. Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Pt! Schon das coole Video vom GMX MultiMessenger gesehen? Der Eine für Alle: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/messenger03 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (baby hatch)
Please have a look at the following proposal: Baby hatch (de: Babyklappe) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/baby_hatch Thanks. Lulu-Ann -- GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spaß haben mit Pastry Passion! http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/puzzle/6169196 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Bus Stop vs. Bus Station
> Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:23:34 +0200 > From: Stefan Neufeind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [OSM-talk] bus_stop / bus_station > To: talk@openstreetmap.org > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi, > > I just "discovered" there is > highway=bus_stop and > amenity=bus_station > > According to "map features" the latter is for a larger bus_station with > several bus-stops etc. > > Having a closer look I saw that they are shown differently e.g. in JOSM. > "highway=bus_stop" in this case is a dark blue "something" on a black > background, whereas the other is clearly visible as a bus_stop/_station. > > And several normal stops at roads near here were tagged as a bus_station > which actually are just one small stop on the side of a normal road. So > strictly looking they were tagged wrong (by me mosly, by the way). > I wonder if others see the problem as well and if mappers really see a > difference between the two. Otherwise maybe it would make sense to make > both treated equal and assume stat a larger "station" is an area/way > instead of just a node (where actually more lanes, stops etc. are there)? > > > Regards, > Stefan > > Hello Stefan, as Bus_station is in the dropdown list in potlatch and Bus_stop is not, many newbies don't know about the difference. I guess that's the whole reason. Regards Lulu-Ann -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mailing Lists for MOM development
> Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:25:55 +0100 > From: elvin ibbotson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] latest release of mom > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: Talk Openstreetmap > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > From: "Patrick Aljord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 13 August 2008 23:49:02 BDT > To: "Talk Openstreetmap" > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] latest release of mom > > > If you want to alert your user > > you could create a mailing list, there are plenty of website that > > offer such things starting with google and yahoo > > Thanks, I may look into that. Hey, will you please use one of the nice openstreetmap.org or openstreetmap.de or openstreetmap.whatever mailing list services instead of some big-brother google mailing list service. . o O (§$&*Argg, how can someone even type such a recommendation while answering on a OSM mailing list... ) Thanks. Lulu-Ann -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
>>> 1) Is it possible to include more information with the PIOs. Such as
>>> contact numbers ('phone' tag), which would be for restuarants/etc?
>>
>> Don't know - interesting thought!
>I dug a little last night and the spec is understood to contain a bit
>field as to what each/every PIO contains (phone, address, etc). So I think
>it is possible. This would be a good thing for me, as I'm making a tourist
>map for local community, being able to find local resturants and get a
>phone number would be cool.
I am definitively against phone numbers in OSM. On many communities on the
internet
publishing phone numbers and email adresses is not welcome because wrong
numbers can't be found easily and people suffering from such phone calls will
be really annoyed.
Please use the WEBSITE tag - nobody will be annoyed by an error in a URL
and if a phone number changes the sitemaster will take care and not the mapper.
If there is no website for the amenity, you can add the URL of the search
result of
the yellow pages.
If you want to include any other information use the DESCRIPTION tag.
But please do not add phone numbers.
Lulu-Ann
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Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
I would like to add another argument to the Phone numbers discussion. If taken from the OSM database, any piece of paper with the phone number needs to inform about the license and source. - It is not realistic to think that phone numbers will be copied from the map with the licence information. a) If a wrong phone number is copied from OSM it will put a bad light on OSM, but the wrong source can be corrected. b) If a wrong phone number is copied from OSM without the source information, and someone finally finds out where the wrong number comes from, it's even worse. I agree that the entering of phone numbers should be done only beeing very careful. But how can you ensure? I think you can't. And pointing to the OSM disclaimer (This data is not reliable!) for the phone numbers doesn't prevent the owner of the wrong phone number to wake up at night, because a dump user from overseas did not think of the timezones. I think phone numbers should only be published with the acknowledgement of the owner, and that's far more than OSM can organize. Lulu-Ann -- GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spaß haben mit Pastry Passion! http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/puzzle/6169196 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Flooded Thames
I am not sure if the Thames will ever flow back into her bed if so many people try to repair... One repairs anything and while waiting for the next rendering the next one changes it back... ?! -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Phone numbers in OSM
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I think phone numbers should only be published with the acknowledgement > of the owner, and > > that's far more than OSM can organize. > Any phone number that is currently published in a publically available > phone book is then fair game. You are forgetting about the time... I am personally suffering because my phone number has beed assigned to a company repairing automatic doors 8 (!) years ago. They left stickers with their number in each door they ever touched. (Doors often need service early in the morning... argh) A phone number in OSM will also remain after it's validity because of the lack of a process to check them regularily. And between a correct listing in a yellow pages dictionary and a correct listing in OSM is one sometimes unreliable device between keyboard and chair. I support the idea to store links to the wiki yellow pages. Lulu-Ann -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] amenity=vending_machine AND amenity=post_box: what about?
> >>>> Currently, I have never seen a stamp vending machine without its > >>>> post > >>>> box. That is why I intended to mark these with something like: > >>>> > >>>> amenity=post_box > >>>> vending_machine=yes Hi, if you have not seen a stamp vending machine without a post box nearby, that means that - you are lucky or - you have not been to Germany since the Deutsche Bundespost tries to save money whereever it can. I know several of those strange occurances. Don't create a data model where the world has to follow. Create a data model that follows the world as it is. Regards Lulu-Ann -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Baby hatch now open for voting - Abstim mung über Babyklappe
The voting for http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/baby_hatch Baby Hatch (de:Babyklappe) is now open. Please vote. Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Dominican Republic
Hello list, I am going to spend my vacation in the Dominican Republic. Any hints what to consider? Any suggestions? Any experiences? Regards Lulu-Ann -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Proposal: Traffic enforcement
Please read and discuss this new proposal on traffic enforcement (including speed traps!) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Traffic_enforcement Thanks Lulu-Ann -- GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spaß haben mit Pastry Passion! http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/puzzle/6169196 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
Hello List, I agree to Frederiks ideas and I would even go further: I would like to have a proposal-like system with votings for bot-runs installed with 8 of 15 for a single run and 16 of 32 for a regularly running bot. Bye Lulu-Ann > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:08:50 +0200 > From: Frederik Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits > To: Talk Openstreetmap > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi, > > as OpenStreetMap draws more and more sophisticated users, we're also > seeing more scripts or, as they would be called in Wikipedia, "bots", > modifying data. > > I'm in a bit of a dilemma here. I have been using such scripts for a > while now (see my "Fixbot" page on the Wiki, or some past "undo" > actions). I have always felt that being able to use scripts gives me > considerably more power than the average user, and I have tried to > ensure that I use that power responsibly. > > That kind self-restraint is, however, not the norm for everyone who is > capable of doing automated modifications. We are now seeing automated > edits on a large scale, often un-discussed and un-documented. When you > ask the authors they respond with something like "oh, I read on the Wiki > that something should be so-and-so, so I thought I'll just change it". > > One example to which I took exception is that someone in Germany has > "corrected" a five-digit number of ways by inserting spaces in "ref" > tags (ref=A18 became ref=A 18) and/or changing "Strasse" in the name to > "Stra?e", which is the correct spelling (but nonetheless "Strasse" is > often found on signs). > > Now the actual changes done are not too bad; they are actually, ex post, > welcomed by the majority of people on talk-de. Had the author of the > script discussed the issue on talk-de before, he'd probably have > received an almost unanimous go-ahead from the community. > > Still, this issue makes me feel uneasy. We take pride in not having > fixed rules. If someone, somewhere, decides to tag a road as "Strasse" > not "Stra?e" because that's what's on the signs, however wrong > orthographically: Should someone else, armed with no local knowledge but > just a set of spelling rules, without prior discussion, run a script > that changes this? Is this not showing disrespect to other people's > contributions? > > Another issue is, *if* something is changed, *how* this is done. Lacking > 0.6's versioning, if anyone analyzes yesterday's planet file to find > ways he'd like to fix and uploads changed versions of each, chances are > he'll overwrite all those that have been changed between the generation > of the planet file and his script run. Whoever wants to run an automated > update should know exactly what he's doing, and be in a position to > exactly revert his changes should it turn out they were faulty. > > And still another thing is documentation; I somewhat expect that any > automated, large-scale change should be documented. When was it done, > what exactly was done, how many objects were affected, what were the > "source" and/or username settings for the job so that it can be > identified later. > > > When I issued words of caution on the German list, some people came to > me grinning and said "well there you have it, that's what happens when > you have a project without rules, and anyone making automated changes > has the same right to do so as anyone else". > > I don't think this is true; scripts or "bots" are a powerful means of > enforcing rules. If they proliferate in an uncontrolled fashion, we'll > soon have a number of mini dictators who have constructed their own set > of rules and will modify anything that dares to be different. The > philosopher Karl Popper has called this the "paradox of tolerance" - > even if you preach tolerance, your tolerance has to stop at intolerance. > So if we preach the freedom to tag whatever you want and how you want > it, that freedom has to stop if people start mass-changing existing data. > > > I am in favour of setting up a code of conduct for automated edits. The > key elements would be: > > 1. Make a plan of what you want to change, and discuss in relevant forum > (usu. mailing list). If there are many objections; drop the plan. If > there are few objections, maybe exempt certain areas or objects created > by certain people in order to respect the
[OSM-talk] License missing on many web pages
Hi there, I have just surfed through the link collection on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Stammtisch_Hannover_Tipps and unfortunately several of the paged did not mention the license of the OSM map shown at all. 1) If you are using the map, make sure not to cut off the license! 2) If you are surfing, and you find a OSM without license, write to the operator and ask for correction. 3) Is it possible to have the license integrated in the slippy map, like the term of use appear on the google maps? This would help in many cases where the outer frame is replaced. I am not willing to share my work for someone who places his own copyright note under my hometown's OSM ...! Thanks for your help - take pride in the work we do - remind those who try to pretend it was their work to the rules. Lulu-Ann -- Ist Ihr Browser Vista-kompatibel? Jetzt die neuesten Browser-Versionen downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/browser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Motor way links oneway or not
> Marc Sch?tz wrote: > >> Isn't a motorway by definition divided and therefore oneway ? > > > > A motorway yes, but not a motorway_link. > > > >> My opinion is that motorway and motorway_link must both default to > >> oneway=true, as the bi-directional varieties are non-existent / very > rare. > > > > Quite the opposite: most motorway_links around here a bidirectional, > except the small parts where they enter and exit the motorway. > > Then only the small parts that are the actual link should be tagged as > motorway_links ;) > > -- > Lester Caine - G8HFL I agree to Marc that motorway links are often bidirectional except the ends where they run parallel to the motorway, and I really do not want the bidirectional parts to be tagged as trunks because that would result in asymetrical green parts in a blue motorway cloverleafs. I would like to have motorway links without an implied oneway=yes or oneway=no, but with a rule-checker that points out where the oneway tag is missing. As the German motorway links belong to the motorway and therefor are part of a motorway relation, I would really be odd to add trunk parts! bye Lulu-Ann -- GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spaß haben mit Pastry Passion! http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/puzzle/6169196 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Minimum or maximum clothing demanded
Hi, please have a look and discuss my proposal about clothing that is expected to enter a place. (FKK: Max_clothing, churches etc: min_clothing http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Clothing Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Shop=flowers
Hi, please have a look an discuss the proposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/shop_flowers It adds a value that is urgently needed if you have an angry wife. :-) Bye Lulu-Ann -- "Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ... Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How to tag this unknown barrier: Cycle Chicane
The unknown barrier is known as a "Drängelgitter" in German, and on the barrier page you find barrier=cycle chicane as recommended tagging. Bye Lulu-Ann -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Request for comments: Relation for traffic enforcement
Hi there, I have come to the conclusion that traffic enforcement like speed cameras need relations. Please have a look at the new concept and leave your comments. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:enforcement Thanks Lulu-Ann -- Sensationsangebot verlängert: GMX FreeDSL - Telefonanschluss + DSL für nur 16,37 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K1308T4569a ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Relation:Traffic enforcement Feature Proposal - Voting - Enforcement
Hello there, the voting is now open: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Relation:enforcement Regards Lulu-Ann -- Sensationsangebot verlängert: GMX FreeDSL - Telefonanschluss + DSL für nur 16,37 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K1308T4569a ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
