Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

[Nick Whitelegg via talk]

Even still, the location of major substations (e.g the 400-132kv type) isn't 
really a secret. I could reel off quite a few in the UK without even looking at 
a map.

Nick



From: john whelan 
Sent: 19 January 2023 17:38
To: Nick Whitelegg 
Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

I accept powerlines are fine and visible on other maps but the case for 
transformers isn't quite so strong.

Cheerio John

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 12:15 Nick Whitelegg via talk 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:

I thought the whole point of OSM was to map the ground truth?

Power lines are there, and they are an important navigational aid when out 
walking or hiking.

And besides, just about every commercial mapping provider that I've used shows 
them. The OS does, as do maps that I've seen in a range of continental European 
countries.

Nick



From: john whelan mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 19 January 2023 03:03
To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

Apparently you can do a lot of expensive damage by firing a rifle bullet 
through them as happened more than once in the US and given the situation in 
Europe at the moment is there a risk that something similar could happen there?

Should we have a process that says some things should not be mapped?

I seem to recall that the location of the pipeline that supplies aviation fuel 
to airports is considered an official secret in the UK.

Thoughts?

Thanks John
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Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

[Nick Whitelegg via talk]

I thought the whole point of OSM was to map the ground truth?

Power lines are there, and they are an important navigational aid when out 
walking or hiking.

And besides, just about every commercial mapping provider that I've used shows 
them. The OS does, as do maps that I've seen in a range of continental European 
countries.

Nick



From: john whelan 
Sent: 19 January 2023 03:03
To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
Subject: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

Apparently you can do a lot of expensive damage by firing a rifle bullet 
through them as happened more than once in the US and given the situation in 
Europe at the moment is there a risk that something similar could happen there?

Should we have a process that says some things should not be mapped?

I seem to recall that the location of the pipeline that supplies aviation fuel 
to airports is considered an official secret in the UK.

Thoughts?

Thanks John
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[OSM-talk] Advanced warning: temporary shutdown of OpenTrailView and Hikar, weekend of Dec 19/20

[Nick Whitelegg via talk]

Hello everyone,

For those of you who might use https://opentrailview.org or https://hikar.org, 
or the Hikar app, I'm posting an advanced warning that these sites will be 
unavailable on the weekend of December 19/20.

This is because I am updating the underlying database of Europe OSM data, which 
I have not updated in more than a year now.

Thanks,
Nick


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Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello everyone,

Having run Christian's blurrer on around 200-300 images now (not all with 
people and cars) it does seem to be working quite well, it has only failed to 
detect people on one pano with two children partly looking away from the 
camera. Incidentally these were close to the edge of the pano. The faces of the 
children were vaguely visible. I have not allowed access to this.

Would just like to get some input on the acceptability or otherwise of a few 
examples. I have (temporarily if need be) enabled access to these panos which 
are what I'd consider edge-cases.

All are available at
https://www.opentrailview.org/?id=N

where N is a number, detailed below.

People some distance away from the camera. Not clearly visible. Not detected 
with any of the three pieces of software I've used for blurring, even 
Christian's:

N = 9731, 9732, 9771

Several people in a cafe/parking area on the top of a mountain. Some people are 
detected but people looking away/in the distance are not. Note that things are 
complicated a little with these in that the input image had already gone 
through a blurring run.

N = 3068, 3076, 3080

People close by:

N = 3096

Anyway, would be great to get some feedback on these 'edge cases', whether they 
look reasonably 'safe' to release permanently, on the balance of probability.

Thanks,
Nick

____
From: Nick Whitelegg 
Sent: 10 October 2020 21:38
To: Christian Quest ; talk@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)


..sorry, the photo ID in that URL is incorrect, should be 9728, not 9928.

Nick


____
From: Nick Whitelegg 
Sent: 10 October 2020 21:37
To: Christian Quest ; talk@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

... to follow up on this, it works great on the one pano I've tested so far - I 
selected this one because it had a 'not-clearly-visible' face and I wanted to 
see how it would be handled. There was one adult man and two children in this 
pano, they're all effectively obscured. The previous blurring tools I used 
blurred all the faces but they didn't blur the child who was partly looking 
away (with the face not visible)

Christian - thanks once again for this!

e.g. see https://opentrailview.org/?id=9928

Nick



From: Nick Whitelegg 
Sent: 07 October 2020 17:31
To: Christian Quest ; talk@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

Hello Christian,

This does indeed look very nice, it's providing much more extensive blurring 
than what I've tried so far.

Thanks to everyone also for the replies.

Nick

From: Christian Quest 
Sent: 07 October 2020 09:25
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

Le 06/10/2020 à 22:41, Nick Whitelegg a écrit :
Hi,

Apologies if this is only tangentially OSM related, but I thought I'd ask here 
to try and get some expert advice.

As you may know, Mapillary has been bought by Facebook and there has been 
interest in developing, or at least starting to develop/actively researching 
the possibility of, some sort of open source alternative. I have been 
developing OpenTrailView (opentrailview.org), however I now have a collaborator 
to work on exploring an open source panos platform.

The main question I have relates to the very necessary privacy steps that must 
be taken, in particular face and license plate blurring. I have experimented 
with various libraries using various datasets and models, and have found that 
the understand.ai Anonymizer (https://github.com/understand-ai/anonymizer), 
which advertises itself as something specifically aimed at implementing the 
privacy protections needed to comply with the GDPR, seems to be working the 
best.

It detects faces and license plates in clear view on panoramas, which can then 
be blurred.

My question, then, is what to do about people, or cars, which are further away 
from the camera? In these cases, the algorithm does not necessarily detect the 
face or license plate, but on the other hand in general the faces and license 
plates are not clearly visible, or identifiable, in any case.

So in summary, the tool blurs clearly visible faces or license plates, but in 
general does not blur those which are not clearly visible.

Apologies once again that this is only tangentially related to OSM 
(OpenTrailView uses OSM to connect panos together, so not completely unrelated) 
but it is very much an open geodata issue, so I thought I'd ask to get feedback.

I am in the UK and the server is in Germany (Hetzner), so GDPR would apply.

Thanks,
Nick


We have tested blurring using image segmentation which allows to blur full 
parts of pictures like people and cars, not only faces and license p

Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

[Nick Whitelegg]

... to follow up on this, it works great on the one pano I've tested so far - I 
selected this one because it had a 'not-clearly-visible' face and I wanted to 
see how it would be handled. There was one adult man and two children in this 
pano, they're all effectively obscured. The previous blurring tools I used 
blurred all the faces but they didn't blur the child who was partly looking 
away (with the face not visible)

Christian - thanks once again for this!

e.g. see https://opentrailview.org/?id=9928

Nick


____
From: Nick Whitelegg 
Sent: 07 October 2020 17:31
To: Christian Quest ; talk@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

Hello Christian,

This does indeed look very nice, it's providing much more extensive blurring 
than what I've tried so far.

Thanks to everyone also for the replies.

Nick

From: Christian Quest 
Sent: 07 October 2020 09:25
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

Le 06/10/2020 à 22:41, Nick Whitelegg a écrit :
Hi,

Apologies if this is only tangentially OSM related, but I thought I'd ask here 
to try and get some expert advice.

As you may know, Mapillary has been bought by Facebook and there has been 
interest in developing, or at least starting to develop/actively researching 
the possibility of, some sort of open source alternative. I have been 
developing OpenTrailView (opentrailview.org), however I now have a collaborator 
to work on exploring an open source panos platform.

The main question I have relates to the very necessary privacy steps that must 
be taken, in particular face and license plate blurring. I have experimented 
with various libraries using various datasets and models, and have found that 
the understand.ai Anonymizer (https://github.com/understand-ai/anonymizer), 
which advertises itself as something specifically aimed at implementing the 
privacy protections needed to comply with the GDPR, seems to be working the 
best.

It detects faces and license plates in clear view on panoramas, which can then 
be blurred.

My question, then, is what to do about people, or cars, which are further away 
from the camera? In these cases, the algorithm does not necessarily detect the 
face or license plate, but on the other hand in general the faces and license 
plates are not clearly visible, or identifiable, in any case.

So in summary, the tool blurs clearly visible faces or license plates, but in 
general does not blur those which are not clearly visible.

Apologies once again that this is only tangentially related to OSM 
(OpenTrailView uses OSM to connect panos together, so not completely unrelated) 
but it is very much an open geodata issue, so I thought I'd ask to get feedback.

I am in the UK and the server is in Germany (Hetzner), so GDPR would apply.

Thanks,
Nick


We have tested blurring using image segmentation which allows to blur full 
parts of pictures like people and cars, not only faces and license plates.


Here is the result: https://takeitout.cquest.org/photo/cquest/blurred/


The code used is on github: https://github.com/tyndare/blur-persons/


We did some tests using TPU to speedup the process.


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

[Nick Whitelegg]

..sorry, the photo ID in that URL is incorrect, should be 9728, not 9928.

Nick



From: Nick Whitelegg 
Sent: 10 October 2020 21:37
To: Christian Quest ; talk@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

... to follow up on this, it works great on the one pano I've tested so far - I 
selected this one because it had a 'not-clearly-visible' face and I wanted to 
see how it would be handled. There was one adult man and two children in this 
pano, they're all effectively obscured. The previous blurring tools I used 
blurred all the faces but they didn't blur the child who was partly looking 
away (with the face not visible)

Christian - thanks once again for this!

e.g. see https://opentrailview.org/?id=9928

Nick


____
From: Nick Whitelegg 
Sent: 07 October 2020 17:31
To: Christian Quest ; talk@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

Hello Christian,

This does indeed look very nice, it's providing much more extensive blurring 
than what I've tried so far.

Thanks to everyone also for the replies.

Nick

From: Christian Quest 
Sent: 07 October 2020 09:25
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

Le 06/10/2020 à 22:41, Nick Whitelegg a écrit :
Hi,

Apologies if this is only tangentially OSM related, but I thought I'd ask here 
to try and get some expert advice.

As you may know, Mapillary has been bought by Facebook and there has been 
interest in developing, or at least starting to develop/actively researching 
the possibility of, some sort of open source alternative. I have been 
developing OpenTrailView (opentrailview.org), however I now have a collaborator 
to work on exploring an open source panos platform.

The main question I have relates to the very necessary privacy steps that must 
be taken, in particular face and license plate blurring. I have experimented 
with various libraries using various datasets and models, and have found that 
the understand.ai Anonymizer (https://github.com/understand-ai/anonymizer), 
which advertises itself as something specifically aimed at implementing the 
privacy protections needed to comply with the GDPR, seems to be working the 
best.

It detects faces and license plates in clear view on panoramas, which can then 
be blurred.

My question, then, is what to do about people, or cars, which are further away 
from the camera? In these cases, the algorithm does not necessarily detect the 
face or license plate, but on the other hand in general the faces and license 
plates are not clearly visible, or identifiable, in any case.

So in summary, the tool blurs clearly visible faces or license plates, but in 
general does not blur those which are not clearly visible.

Apologies once again that this is only tangentially related to OSM 
(OpenTrailView uses OSM to connect panos together, so not completely unrelated) 
but it is very much an open geodata issue, so I thought I'd ask to get feedback.

I am in the UK and the server is in Germany (Hetzner), so GDPR would apply.

Thanks,
Nick


We have tested blurring using image segmentation which allows to blur full 
parts of pictures like people and cars, not only faces and license plates.


Here is the result: https://takeitout.cquest.org/photo/cquest/blurred/


The code used is on github: https://github.com/tyndare/blur-persons/


We did some tests using TPU to speedup the process.


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Christian,

This does indeed look very nice, it's providing much more extensive blurring 
than what I've tried so far.

Thanks to everyone also for the replies.

Nick

From: Christian Quest 
Sent: 07 October 2020 09:25
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

Le 06/10/2020 à 22:41, Nick Whitelegg a écrit :
Hi,

Apologies if this is only tangentially OSM related, but I thought I'd ask here 
to try and get some expert advice.

As you may know, Mapillary has been bought by Facebook and there has been 
interest in developing, or at least starting to develop/actively researching 
the possibility of, some sort of open source alternative. I have been 
developing OpenTrailView (opentrailview.org), however I now have a collaborator 
to work on exploring an open source panos platform.

The main question I have relates to the very necessary privacy steps that must 
be taken, in particular face and license plate blurring. I have experimented 
with various libraries using various datasets and models, and have found that 
the understand.ai Anonymizer (https://github.com/understand-ai/anonymizer), 
which advertises itself as something specifically aimed at implementing the 
privacy protections needed to comply with the GDPR, seems to be working the 
best.

It detects faces and license plates in clear view on panoramas, which can then 
be blurred.

My question, then, is what to do about people, or cars, which are further away 
from the camera? In these cases, the algorithm does not necessarily detect the 
face or license plate, but on the other hand in general the faces and license 
plates are not clearly visible, or identifiable, in any case.

So in summary, the tool blurs clearly visible faces or license plates, but in 
general does not blur those which are not clearly visible.

Apologies once again that this is only tangentially related to OSM 
(OpenTrailView uses OSM to connect panos together, so not completely unrelated) 
but it is very much an open geodata issue, so I thought I'd ask to get feedback.

I am in the UK and the server is in Germany (Hetzner), so GDPR would apply.

Thanks,
Nick


We have tested blurring using image segmentation which allows to blur full 
parts of pictures like people and cars, not only faces and license plates.


Here is the result: https://takeitout.cquest.org/photo/cquest/blurred/


The code used is on github: https://github.com/tyndare/blur-persons/


We did some tests using TPU to speedup the process.


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

[Nick Whitelegg]

... sorry, this sentence maybe could be misconstrued. "however I now have a 
collaborator to work on exploring an open source panos platform."

This is very much a joint-effort project between myself and the person I'm 
collaborating with, I want to make that clear.

Thanks,
Nick



From: Nick Whitelegg
Sent: 06 October 2020 21:41
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

Hi,

Apologies if this is only tangentially OSM related, but I thought I'd ask here 
to try and get some expert advice.

As you may know, Mapillary has been bought by Facebook and there has been 
interest in developing, or at least starting to develop/actively researching 
the possibility of, some sort of open source alternative. I have been 
developing OpenTrailView (opentrailview.org), however I now have a collaborator 
to work on exploring an open source panos platform.

The main question I have relates to the very necessary privacy steps that must 
be taken, in particular face and license plate blurring. I have experimented 
with various libraries using various datasets and models, and have found that 
the understand.ai Anonymizer (https://github.com/understand-ai/anonymizer), 
which advertises itself as something specifically aimed at implementing the 
privacy protections needed to comply with the GDPR, seems to be working the 
best.

It detects faces and license plates in clear view on panoramas, which can then 
be blurred.

My question, then, is what to do about people, or cars, which are further away 
from the camera? In these cases, the algorithm does not necessarily detect the 
face or license plate, but on the other hand in general the faces and license 
plates are not clearly visible, or identifiable, in any case.

So in summary, the tool blurs clearly visible faces or license plates, but in 
general does not blur those which are not clearly visible.

Apologies once again that this is only tangentially related to OSM 
(OpenTrailView uses OSM to connect panos together, so not completely unrelated) 
but it is very much an open geodata issue, so I thought I'd ask to get feedback.

I am in the UK and the server is in Germany (Hetzner), so GDPR would apply.

Thanks,
Nick

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[OSM-talk] Face and license blurring (GDPR territories)

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,

Apologies if this is only tangentially OSM related, but I thought I'd ask here 
to try and get some expert advice.

As you may know, Mapillary has been bought by Facebook and there has been 
interest in developing, or at least starting to develop/actively researching 
the possibility of, some sort of open source alternative. I have been 
developing OpenTrailView (opentrailview.org), however I now have a collaborator 
to work on exploring an open source panos platform.

The main question I have relates to the very necessary privacy steps that must 
be taken, in particular face and license plate blurring. I have experimented 
with various libraries using various datasets and models, and have found that 
the understand.ai Anonymizer (https://github.com/understand-ai/anonymizer), 
which advertises itself as something specifically aimed at implementing the 
privacy protections needed to comply with the GDPR, seems to be working the 
best.

It detects faces and license plates in clear view on panoramas, which can then 
be blurred.

My question, then, is what to do about people, or cars, which are further away 
from the camera? In these cases, the algorithm does not necessarily detect the 
face or license plate, but on the other hand in general the faces and license 
plates are not clearly visible, or identifiable, in any case.

So in summary, the tool blurs clearly visible faces or license plates, but in 
general does not blur those which are not clearly visible.

Apologies once again that this is only tangentially related to OSM 
(OpenTrailView uses OSM to connect panos together, so not completely unrelated) 
but it is very much an open geodata issue, so I thought I'd ask to get feedback.

I am in the UK and the server is in Germany (Hetzner), so GDPR would apply.

Thanks,
Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging an abandoned path?

[Nick Whitelegg]

Thanks for the replies, will probably go with something like overgrown=yes.

The path concerned has not been closed - it looks like a forestry track which 
was formerly used by vehicles but hasn't for many years. However, unlike many 
of the paths in the same area it doesn't appear to be popular as a 'desire 
path' and is definitely less pleasurable to negotiate than many of the others 
in the area. Just wanted some way of distinguishing this path from others in 
the area in active use, so that those seeking a 'nice walk in the woods' could 
avoid it!

Nick


From: Andrew Harvey 
Sent: 26 September 2020 03:58
To: Talk Openstreetmap 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging an abandoned path?

Abandoned is a tricky concept for a path, what make is abandoned? If there is a 
sign up saying track closed or keep out for re-vegetation it's clear, but 
otherwise it's less clear.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 at 01:36, Andy Townsend 
mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Once it's definitely disappeared, I'd have no qualms about deleting it 
altogether.  Sometimes I update the tags on a path before deleting it to 
something like "note=nothing on this alignment any more".

If there is still some evidence on the ground, I think using the lifecycle 
prefix is preferable because usually it takes a few years for a path to be 
completely revegetated and provides a more accurate picture of what's happening 
on the ground and helps data consumers track the it through the different 
states.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 at 02:06, Mike Thompson 
mailto:miketh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I use:
disused:highway=path/footway/etc
or
abandoned:highway=path/footway/etc

I have used that too where it really is closed via signage, but if it's just 
overgrown from lack of use, it could still be in active use.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 at 02:55, Andy Townsend 
mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Indeed - https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown has some usage

I didn't know about that, usually I've just been adding description=overgrown, 
but that tag is better. It's in need of some discussion and documentation 
though to make it not subjective.

I suggest overgrown=yes would apply if you're constantly brushing against the 
vegetation (not just occasionally but to the the point that you're almost 
always in contact with the vegetation for the whole segment).

Then light if it has negligible affect on walking pace, dense if it slows you 
down considerably.
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[OSM-talk] Tagging an abandoned path?

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,

Wondering if there was a consensus on tagging an abandoned, no longer very 
usable path (e.g. a path which has become overgrown or is unclear and prone to 
flooding in wetter periods). Something like "path=abandoned"?

There's a case like that near where I am in which a path was mapped in the 
early days of OSM but has now fallen into disuse. It isn't an official path, 
just a minor path through some woods on land with public access. My gut feeling 
would be to tag as "path=abandoned" to signal that it isn't really usable as a 
path anymore (so that renderers and routers can warn the user about it or even 
ignore it, for instance) but just wondering if anyone else has come across this 
situation.

Thanks,
Nick



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Re: [OSM-talk] "Limitations on mapping private information" - wiki page

[Nick Whitelegg]

Yes - that's absolutely fine! Just wanted to clarify it here so that the 
wording could be altered (I'm quite happy to do this myself).

Thanks,
Nick



From: Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
Sent: 16 September 2020 11:01
Cc: osm 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] "Limitations on mapping private information" - wiki page




Sep 16, 2020, 10:59 by talk@openstreetmap.org:

I would understand 'semi-public garden' to be, for example, a garden where you 
pay an admission fee to enter, or one which is closed at night. Like Martin, I 
would expect these to be completely acceptable to map.
Not a native speaker, not a lawyer. I would describe such areas as public 
(possibly privately owned).
I think the intention is to deter people from mapping _fully private_ gardens 
which can be viewed from public roads, is this correct?
I am not sure about other, but for me it is about discouraging mapping fully 
private garden in detail.

For example mapping garden area itself and trees (maybe even with their 
species), but
micromapping area where someone planted strawberries seems something that
is out of scope of OSM for privacy reasons.

Nick





From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Sent: 16 September 2020 08:51
To: Mateusz Konieczny 
Cc: OSM Talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] "Limitations on mapping private information" - wiki page



sent from a phone

On 16. Sep 2020, at 09:41, Mateusz Konieczny via talk  
wrote:

Do you think that this page is a good description of community consensus?


There are some points I would like to comment on:

-

  *   OpenStreetMap is not a property registry, thus do not map individual 
ownership of buildings or plots. There is no need to split residential landuse 
into individual plots. (Compare 
Parcel<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Parcel>.)


Yes, we do not map individual ownership of land and buildings generally, but 
unless the owner is a person, we could and privacy regulations would not 
prevent us from doing it. It also isn’t an argument for refraining from mapping 
property divisions, because these are interesting regardless of _who_ is the 
owner


“some structure of a semi-public garden appear to be the borderline of being 
acceptable.“

IMHO exaggerated, semi-public objects can be mapped in all detail and aren’t 
borderline cases

Well, at least according to my understanding of the term semi-public


Cheers Martin




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Re: [OSM-talk] "Limitations on mapping private information" - wiki page

[Nick Whitelegg via talk]

I would understand 'semi-public garden' to be, for example, a garden where you 
pay an admission fee to enter, or one which is closed at night. Like Martin, I 
would expect these to be completely acceptable to map.

I think the intention is to deter people from mapping _fully private_ gardens 
which can be viewed from public roads, is this correct?

Nick



From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Sent: 16 September 2020 08:51
To: Mateusz Konieczny 
Cc: OSM Talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] "Limitations on mapping private information" - wiki page



sent from a phone

On 16. Sep 2020, at 09:41, Mateusz Konieczny via talk  
wrote:

Do you think that this page is a good description of community consensus?


There are some points I would like to comment on:

-

  *   OpenStreetMap is not a property registry, thus do not map individual 
ownership of buildings or plots. There is no need to split residential landuse 
into individual plots. (Compare 
Parcel<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Parcel>.)


Yes, we do not map individual ownership of land and buildings generally, but 
unless the owner is a person, we could and privacy regulations would not 
prevent us from doing it. It also isn’t an argument for refraining from mapping 
property divisions, because these are interesting regardless of _who_ is the 
owner


“some structure of a semi-public garden appear to be the borderline of being 
acceptable.“

IMHO exaggerated, semi-public objects can be mapped in all detail and aren’t 
borderline cases

Well, at least according to my understanding of the term semi-public


Cheers Martin



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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[Nick Whitelegg]

.. sorry, perhaps I was not clear there in my description of the proposed 
TrekView software ('TrekView Explorer') and its relationship with imagery 
providers. It will allow users to upload sets of 360 panoramas, refine them 
(e.g. correct the orientation, adjust their position), tag them, and then 
submit them to providers such as StreetView, Mapillary and OpenTrailView. It 
will also provide general information such as how to make the best use out of 
the various brands of 360 camera (e.g. which ones  include bearing and which 
ones do not).

Users will also be able to save their panorama sets for later use.

Nick


____
From: Nick Whitelegg 
Sent: 29 June 2020 10:03
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary


Something else which might be of interest to contributors to this thread, from 
the software side of things:

For OpenTrailView I am collaborating with the TrekView project (trekview.org) 
which aims to make it easy for people to take 360 panoramas of all walking 
trails, and other off-road locations, in the world.  It's a separate project to 
OpenTrailView: the aim of TrekView is not so much to collect the data itself, 
but rather, to make it easy to collect and make avaiable as many 360 panoramas 
of the natural world as possible, and to submit them to a range of sources, 
including StreetView, Mapillary and also OpenTrailView.

Nonetheless, it's relevant here because TrekView is aiming to develop a highly 
user-friendly and open source upload interface which could be adapted for 
road-based 360 photography too.

Perhaps, if there is any interest in taking this forward, it's worth starting a 
wiki page showing all the possible software which could be used? Including, but 
not limited to: the first (open source) version of OpenStreetCam; 
OpenTrailView; the TrekView upload system when it's ready; and any open source 
image blurring software out there.

Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[Nick Whitelegg]

Something else which might be of interest to contributors to this thread, from 
the software side of things:

For OpenTrailView I am collaborating with the TrekView project (trekview.org) 
which aims to make it easy for people to take 360 panoramas of all walking 
trails, and other off-road locations, in the world.  It's a separate project to 
OpenTrailView: the aim of TrekView is not so much to collect the data itself, 
but rather, to make it easy to collect and make avaiable as many 360 panoramas 
of the natural world as possible, and to submit them to a range of sources, 
including StreetView, Mapillary and also OpenTrailView.

Nonetheless, it's relevant here because TrekView is aiming to develop a highly 
user-friendly and open source upload interface which could be adapted for 
road-based 360 photography too.

Perhaps, if there is any interest in taking this forward, it's worth starting a 
wiki page showing all the possible software which could be used? Including, but 
not limited to: the first (open source) version of OpenStreetCam; 
OpenTrailView; the TrekView upload system when it's ready; and any open source 
image blurring software out there.

Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[Nick Whitelegg]

Just another thought on this (and it is just a thought) but reflects my current 
thinking on OpenTrailView but could also apply to an open source StreetView-lie 
app:

Start small, cover a relatively small area (a historic town or national park 
including the footways?)  - maybe a group of people could get together to fund 
the server for this.

If the end product is then genuinely useful to people and has features that 
StreetView and Mapillary do not offer - then maybe it will attract interest, 
and thus funding.

If not, then at least you have created a potentially useful bit of open-source 
software that others could also use in small-scale situations.


Nick

From: Marc M. 
Sent: 25 June 2020 16:25
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

Le 25.06.20 à 16:16, Florian Lohoff a écrit :
> Mapillary themselves say on their web pages that they already
> have 1,199,363,907 images. Thats 3515625 GB or 3.5TB Data
> assuming 3MByte per image.

3 500 000 GB ~ 3 500 TB ~ 3.5 PB ?
~100k€ ~100k$ hardware cost for the storage.
or 1000 people sharing a 6TB disk on a distributed system

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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Florian,

Yes - I have to admit that's partly why I've been focusing on walking trails 
only in my own project (aside from the fact that I have a particular interest 
in waling trails), the storage requirements are not going to ramp up so quickly.

I have to admit I haven't considered how exactly a fully open source StreetView 
would be funded - other people would be better-placed than myself to think of 
solutions to this - but was just floating the idea as a nice-to-have.

Nick



From: Florian Lohoff
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 22:45
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary


Hi Nick,

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:47:01AM +, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
>
> (Disclaimer: I am the developer of said project)
>
> You can login using your OSM account.

The issue is that once you start pushing stuff into any projects your
storage expenses will kill you pretty fast.

https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage-pricing.html

Thats 0.005$ per GB and Month. Thats *12 *1024 for a Terrabyte. Thats
something like 60$ per Year per Terrabyte which sounds reasonable
concerning disk costs. Costs per disk per lifetime and infrastructure to
connect it to the IP Network.

Since late May i have produced:

flo@p4:/scratch/local/mapillary$ du -sh .
285G.
flo@p4:/scratch/local/mapillary$ find . -type f -iname "*.jpg" | wc -l
97407

So just pushing worth like 2 Weeks of taking street imagery will cost the
Hoster about 20$ per year from now on. And i have pushed multiple terrabytes
to Mapillary since 2014.

And thats just me. Put that to a global OSM perspective and you need
serious funding for storing all that imagery, let alone the CPU cycles
for your compute vision to blur faces and number plates.

And as i have done something like OpenStreetcam 10 years ago for my personal
imagery without the fancy blurring stuff. And i have worked for Hosting
companys so i know the deal.

This is why I think personally that the Facebook deal is the only
viable option for getting long term funding for storage. Somebody
has to pay for it. And i dont see a real businesscase which will pay
up for all the random Dashboards people store into your Dataset.

So either Facebook supports this service or we are toast.

The only option would then be OSMF funding but you may have a glimpse
at the Mapillary numbers and prepare some fundraising.

Flo
--
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UTF-8 Test The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[Nick Whitelegg]

>One of the key functionalities required for such a project to be useable in 
>countries with developed privacy regulation is the >ability to automatically 
>pixelate relevant parts of the images with a high degree of reliability. It 
>took Mapillary literally years >to get that nailed down and bring it to the 
>level of functionality it is at now.


>Which is one of the reasons why, way back when Mapillary started, I was 
>sceptical about the sustainability because the >part of the product the 
>detection is required don't have a real associated revenue stream (except if 
>you a google, or ... and >can use it in one way or the other to sell ads).


>In any case doing that from scratch would be a real pain. I believe the OSC 
>stack is now actually all OSS which would be a >far better starting point -if- 
>sustainable funding could be built around the whole thing.

I've looked at the OSC github repo from time to time. Bit hard to see exactly 
what's happening but I understand it's now owned by someone other than Telenav, 
It _looks_ like the latest commit is client-side only. Strugging to find any 
server-side code there.

However, if you go back to commit 1, there appears to be a fully open-source 
application with a PHP back end, though I haven't analysed the code in any 
detail - I can just see it's got database interaction in there.

OSC I think only allows you to navigate along an uploaded set of photos, or at 
least it did last time I looked.

Maybe the way forward (particularly given both projects are PHP-based) would be 
to merge some of the stuff I've been working on in OpenTrailView with the first 
commit of OSC. The main question that needs to be asked for now I think is: is 
there sufficient interest in developing a fully open-source StreetView-like 
application within the OSM community, and elsewhere, to make such a project 
worthwhile?

In terms of the critical privacy issues, there are some interesting projects on 
GitHub regarding number plate and face blurring, for example
https://github.com/understand-ai/anonymizer

No idea how good it actually is, but I have a number of panoramas with both 
faces and number plates so I have material to test it with.

Maybe OSC have done some stuff here, haven't looked I have to admit.


Nick










From: Simon Poole 
Sent: 19 June 2020 15:06
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary



Am 19.06.2020 um 13:47 schrieb Nick Whitelegg:

(Disclaimer: I am the developer of said project)

One of the key functionalities required for such a project to be useable in 
countries with developed privacy regulation is the ability to automatically 
pixelate relevant parts of the images with a high degree of reliability. It 
took Mapillary literally years to get that nailed down and bring it to the 
level of functionality it is at now.


Which is one of the reasons why, way back when Mapillary started, I was 
sceptical about the sustainability because the part of the product the 
detection is required don't have a real associated revenue stream (except if 
you a google, or ... and can use it in one way or the other to sell ads).


In any case doing that from scratch would be a real pain. I believe the OSC 
stack is now actually all OSS which would be a far better starting point -if- 
sustainable funding could be built around the whole thing.


Simon


PS: naturally the whole reason for OSC was a business dispute that is now moot 
because Mapillary is opening up its images for commercial use too.


Those of you looking for 100% FOSS software and who are focused on 360 degree 
photography of off-road routes (walking trails and so on) might want to 
consider OpenTrailView (https://opentrailview.org). Do bear in mind that it is 
in the early stages of development, so don't expect Mapillary-style UX just 
yet, and there is only a small amount of imagery (largely southern England at 
the moment plus a few around Heidelberg for probably obvious reasons) but it is 
in active development and I do have a possible collaboration with another 
project (more on that later).

OpenTrailVIew also uses underlying OpenStreetMap data to auto-connect 
panoramas, using GeoJSON Path Finder 
(github.com/perliedman/geojson-path-finder), though, due to server capacity 
constraints, this only works at present in Europe and Turkey (though requests 
for other countries welcome, though note that if they are for large and/or 
highly-populated countries countries such as the USA, China or Brazil I would 
have to restrict it to a region).

You can login using your OSM account.

Nick

From: Florian Lohoff <mailto:f...@zz.de>
Sent: 19 June 2020 07:58
To: Niels Elgaard Larsen <mailto:elga...@agol.dk>
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>

Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Martin,

In theory, it could work in urban areas as well as off-road. There's nothing 
technically preventing it doing so, it's just that up to now I have chosen to 
focus on off-road.

However if there's a real interest an alternate fully-FOSS StreetView like 
application as an alternative to Mapillary and others, then I'm quite happy to 
take street panoramas.

Nick



From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Sent: 19 June 2020 12:56
To: Nick Whitelegg 
Cc: OSM Talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary



sent from a phone

> On 19. Jun 2020, at 13:51, Nick Whitelegg  wrote:
>
> Those of you looking for 100% FOSS software and who are focused on 360 degree 
> photography of off-road routes (walking trails and so on) might want to 
> consider OpenTrailView (https://opentrailview.org).


has it a general scope, or is it only suitable for pictures “off road” as its 
name suggests?

Cheers Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

[Nick Whitelegg]

(Disclaimer: I am the developer of said project)

Those of you looking for 100% FOSS software and who are focused on 360 degree 
photography of off-road routes (walking trails and so on) might want to 
consider OpenTrailView (https://opentrailview.org). Do bear in mind that it is 
in the early stages of development, so don't expect Mapillary-style UX just 
yet, and there is only a small amount of imagery (largely southern England at 
the moment plus a few around Heidelberg for probably obvious reasons) but it is 
in active development and I do have a possible collaboration with another 
project (more on that later).

OpenTrailVIew also uses underlying OpenStreetMap data to auto-connect 
panoramas, using GeoJSON Path Finder 
(github.com/perliedman/geojson-path-finder), though, due to server capacity 
constraints, this only works at present in Europe and Turkey (though requests 
for other countries welcome, though note that if they are for large and/or 
highly-populated countries countries such as the USA, China or Brazil I would 
have to restrict it to a region).

You can login using your OSM account.

Nick

From: Florian Lohoff 
Sent: 19 June 2020 07:58
To: Niels Elgaard Larsen 
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook acquires crowdsourced mapping company Mapillary

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 01:21:59AM +0200, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote:
> Paul Johnson:
> > Great.  How's this affect those of us who trust Facebook about as far as we 
> > can throw it?
>
>
> Use openstreetcam

Openstreetcam is pretty much "disfunct" from my perspective. There are
tons of bugs people opened because of their tracks not beeing
processing. Same for me. Twitter feed dead for a year. It looks pretty
much abandoned since end of 2019 - Since early June serious problems
processing tracks and uploads.

And for the me focus on Car driveable streets makes it useless.

Flo
--
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UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
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[OSM-talk] 3D OSM with terrain

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,

As part of investigating the possibility of developing a web-based version of 
Hikar, I've developed a simple (and with several flaws!) proof-of-concept 3D 
OSM application which overlays OSM highways on Terrarium DEM data using A-Frame 
(aframe.io).

It is only simple, for instance it doesn't show water, doesn't yet show models, 
and doesn't show rivers - and has some rendering artefacts in that OSM ways 
might disappear below ground level if they do not contain enough nodes.
Also it's restricted to Europe and Turkey, as these are the regions my database 
cover.

Anyway, I was wondering if there was any active development on open-source 3D 
OSM renderers with terrain? I'm aware that several years ago we had the OSM-3D 
project but development on this seems to have stopped, and many projects exist 
which do impressive rendering of buildings, but I can't find anything which 
aims to render terrain and countryside areas.

If not, I'm wondering if anyone wanted to collaborate on this and take it 
further? It's unlikely I will personally have the time to fully develop the 
demo into an impressive OSM VR app, but would be interested to hear if anyone 
is keen to work on it.

Demo at: https://hikar.org/aframe/

Repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/aframe-expts/

Thanks,
Nick



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[OSM-talk] Hikar and OpenTrailView - new development blog

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello everyone,

For those interested in my projects Hikar (hikar.org; augmented reality for 
paths using OSM) and OpenTrailView (opentrailview.org; off-road 'StreetView' 
like application for countryside users) I have now started a new development 
blog.

If you're interested in these projects, all updates will be primarily posted 
there.
For people in the UK, I will also post updates on MapThePaths there, as well as 
the talk-gb list.

See

https://hikar.org/wordpress/

Thanks!

Nick


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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Panorama Mapping Party with TrekView - May 23 - Ashurst, New Forest, UK

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Jez,

I think it probably would, as it would be of interest to open mapping 
enthusiasts, aims to collect open panoramic data, and OSM is used to connect 
the panoramas together - so I don't see why not.

I'll put it up when I have a chance.

Nick


From: Jez Nicholson 
Sent: 08 February 2020 11:39
To: Nick Whitelegg 
Cc: osm-talk ; Talk-GB 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Panorama Mapping Party with TrekView - May 23 - Ashurst, 
New Forest, UK

Nice hookup with Trek Viewdoes this warrant adding to 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Current_events as a mapping party? I always 
like seeing UK events on there.

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 5:37 PM Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As some of you may know I am developing OpenTrailView 
(https://opentrailview.org), a pure 100% FOSS StreetView-like application for 
off-road routes such as hiking trails which uses OpenStreetMap data to 
auto-connect the panoramas together.

Recently I've been working with Trek View (trekview.org<http://trekview.org>), 
an organisation which aims to capture panoramas of the natural world.
In their words: TrekView is a not-for-profit organisation using the power of 
panoramic photography to help educate and protect against further destruction 
of our beautiful planet. In 2020, they're launching Trekker Camp. Think virtual 
field trips. Trekker Camp will design and deliver immersive learning 
experiences to give students (7-11) the necessary understanding and skills to 
tackle the world's most pressing issues, from ocean health to climate change.

TrekView loan 360 camera packs (using the GoPro Fusion) to allow people to 
capture imagery of the natural world, from off-road routes including hiking 
routes and rivers. As well as Google Street View, TrekView's software now 
allows contributors to upload to OpenTrailView.

On to the most important aspect of this post. On May 23rd, and inspired by OSM 
mapping parties, we're organising a Panorama Mapping Party at Ashurst, New 
Forest, Hampshire, UK, with the aim of intensively capturing panoramic imagery 
of the paths and trails in the area which will then be uploaded to 
OpenTrailView. As OSM coverage in the area is exceptionally good, this should 
then result in the creation of extensive walk-through tours of the area.

The form will be similar to mapping parties. The plan is to meet at 11:00 
(there's a train which arrives from London at the local station, Ashurst New 
Forest, at around 10:45), plan, capture imagery and then get together in the 
pub afterwards.

More details (with OSM map showing location): 
https://www.trekview.org/blog/2020/pano-party-new-forest-uk-may-23-2020/


So if you're interested in 360 photography and OSM, then do come along! 360 
camera packs will be available to borrow and use on the day, or if you have 
your own device, please bring it along.

Thanks,
Nick

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[OSM-talk] Panorama Mapping Party with TrekView - May 23 - Ashurst, New Forest, UK

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello everyone,

As some of you may know I am developing OpenTrailView 
(https://opentrailview.org), a pure 100% FOSS StreetView-like application for 
off-road routes such as hiking trails which uses OpenStreetMap data to 
auto-connect the panoramas together.

Recently I've been working with Trek View (trekview.org), an organisation which 
aims to capture panoramas of the natural world.
In their words: TrekView is a not-for-profit organisation using the power of 
panoramic photography to help educate and protect against further destruction 
of our beautiful planet. In 2020, they're launching Trekker Camp. Think virtual 
field trips. Trekker Camp will design and deliver immersive learning 
experiences to give students (7-11) the necessary understanding and skills to 
tackle the world's most pressing issues, from ocean health to climate change.

TrekView loan 360 camera packs (using the GoPro Fusion) to allow people to 
capture imagery of the natural world, from off-road routes including hiking 
routes and rivers. As well as Google Street View, TrekView's software now 
allows contributors to upload to OpenTrailView.

On to the most important aspect of this post. On May 23rd, and inspired by OSM 
mapping parties, we're organising a Panorama Mapping Party at Ashurst, New 
Forest, Hampshire, UK, with the aim of intensively capturing panoramic imagery 
of the paths and trails in the area which will then be uploaded to 
OpenTrailView. As OSM coverage in the area is exceptionally good, this should 
then result in the creation of extensive walk-through tours of the area.

The form will be similar to mapping parties. The plan is to meet at 11:00 
(there's a train which arrives from London at the local station, Ashurst New 
Forest, at around 10:45), plan, capture imagery and then get together in the 
pub afterwards.

More details (with OSM map showing location): 
https://www.trekview.org/blog/2020/pano-party-new-forest-uk-may-23-2020/


So if you're interested in 360 photography and OSM, then do come along! 360 
camera packs will be available to borrow and use on the day, or if you have 
your own device, please bring it along.

Thanks,
Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM 2012 T-shirt

[Nick Hocking]

Many thanks Satoshi IIDA, We (Canberra Cavalry) have quite a few Japanese
players in our team this year, mainly pitchers. Tonight should be a good
night and the Japanese ambassador to Australia will be there. I only hope
he doesn't want my t-shirt :-) Cheers form Canberra Australia Nick
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[OSM-talk] SOTM 2012 T-shirt

[Nick Hocking]

Can anyone, who was at SOTM 2012 tell me what the inscription on the front
of the T-shirt says.

I'm going to wear mine tonight at a "Japanese Night" at the Baseball and
anyone from Japan who is there is bound to come up and ask me about it.

I know it starts of "70 Million people can't be wrong.

An then I think it references a famous mapper in Japan who walked the
llength an breadth of Japan in order to map it, many moons ago.  School
children used to be taught him, but I can't remember his name.

PS - chinese people are really confused about it - I think in their
language it means something like "hey - I've got 70 million dollars!"  :-)
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[OSM-talk] Hikar update - campsites,, hostels and mountain huts

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who attended my talk on Hikar (OSM augmented reality Android 
app for hikers, https://hikar.org) at SOTM!

Just a quick heads up on some small changes (version 0.3.1), partly as a result 
of feedback at SOTM.
The virtual signposts on the app now show campsites, alpine huts, hostels and 
viewpoints - all features of interest to walkers.

Also the Canary Islands are now covered - originally they were omitted as they 
are classed as Africa, not Europe.

Thanks,
Nick


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

To update: users can now view their own uploaded panoramas even if they haven't 
been approved yet.


Nick



From: Nick Whitelegg 
Sent: 01 September 2019 10:32:20
To: Stefan Baebler 
Cc: osm-talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates



Hello Stefan,


Thanks for the that. ll be a very quick job to show photos to authors without 
approval, so will do that very soon - today or tomorrow.


Nick




From: Stefan Baebler 
Sent: 30 August 2019 23:27:48
To: Nick Whitelegg 
Cc: Simon Polster ; osm-talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Yes, this is the one.
I don't mind waiting for the approval process, but when the user has no 
feedback "thanks for the photo, please wait few days for review before it can 
be seen" it might give impression that something didn't work, discouraging them 
from further uploads. You could even show the photos (on map and panorama) to 
their logged-in authors/uploaders without any approval.

Interestingly, when i open my uploaded panorama on the phone (same as the 
picture was taken with) it says:
"Your panorama is too big for your device! It's 8704px wide, but your device 
only supports images up to 8192px wide. Try another device. (If you are the 
author try scaling down the image.)"
Some quick googling confirmed that this is a WebGL device driver limitation.
https://github.com/mpetroff/pannellum/issues/444

br,
Štefan

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 7:23 PM Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Stefan,


Sorry - I have to approve panos before they go live, I've done this now. This 
is to guard against panos with privacy violations or unsuitable content. I 
presume yours is the one in the Alps at:


https://www.opentrailview.org/?id=82


I generally check for updates daily. This is the only one I can see, did you 
try others? Note that you have to upload them one at a time, it will not do 
multiple file uploads in one go.


Thanks for your suggestions, will implement them as soon as I can.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Stefan Baebler mailto:stefan.baeb...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 30 August 2019 07:46:23
To: Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>>
Cc: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>; osm-talk 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Thanks, the uploading works now!

However, I cannot see my uploaded photospheres anywhere on the site, not even 
while being logged in, logging in again Neither on the map nor on some 
list. Not sure if it was successful or not.

Few suggestions:
- make it so that the uploader sees his own uploads immediately (no pending 
approvals etc needed) with a status clearly shown
- allow for lower zoom levels. Panning away from your demo area is slow in high 
zooms.
- search box should trigger searching when enter key is pressed
- after login you should remove oauth_token from the URL (either via JavaScript 
history.push or http redirect)
- persist current coordinates in the URL, so it is easy to share and bookmark 
links (there are plugins for leaflet, eg leaflet-hash)
- make the site more mobile friendly (text is extremely unreadable, buttons 
hard to hit...)

Thanks,
Stefan

V sre., 28. avg. 2019 19:11 je oseba Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> napisala:


Hello Stefan,


Have increased limit to 15 MB now - let me know if you still have problems. 
Still not mobile friendly just yet - will do this when I have the time.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Stefan Baebler mailto:stefan.baeb...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 25 August 2019 22:33:38
To: Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>>
Cc: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>; osm-talk 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Hi!

I have problems uploading full 360°*180° photospheres. All of them are around 
10MB, and could not find any below 5MB to test with. The error does not say 
much - no photo uploaded and no error code.

The size limit should be raised (eg to 15MB) in my opinion as there is no easy 
option to compress such images (eg by lowering the resolution).

Also the website is really hard to use on mobile devices. :-(

Br,
Stefan




V pet., 16. avg. 2019 19:05 je oseba Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> napisala:


Hello Simon,


Glad it's working for you!


It looks like it should be possible to show the view field on the map - a 
Leaflet plugin exists to draw semicircles for example, so I'll have a look into 
that - shouldn't be too difficult to implement.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>
Sent: 15 August 2019 18:17:46
To: talk@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org> 
mailto:talk@openstreet

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Stefan,


Thanks for the that. ll be a very quick job to show photos to authors without 
approval, so will do that very soon - today or tomorrow.


Nick




From: Stefan Baebler 
Sent: 30 August 2019 23:27:48
To: Nick Whitelegg 
Cc: Simon Polster ; osm-talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Yes, this is the one.
I don't mind waiting for the approval process, but when the user has no 
feedback "thanks for the photo, please wait few days for review before it can 
be seen" it might give impression that something didn't work, discouraging them 
from further uploads. You could even show the photos (on map and panorama) to 
their logged-in authors/uploaders without any approval.

Interestingly, when i open my uploaded panorama on the phone (same as the 
picture was taken with) it says:
"Your panorama is too big for your device! It's 8704px wide, but your device 
only supports images up to 8192px wide. Try another device. (If you are the 
author try scaling down the image.)"
Some quick googling confirmed that this is a WebGL device driver limitation.
https://github.com/mpetroff/pannellum/issues/444

br,
Štefan

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 7:23 PM Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Stefan,


Sorry - I have to approve panos before they go live, I've done this now. This 
is to guard against panos with privacy violations or unsuitable content. I 
presume yours is the one in the Alps at:


https://www.opentrailview.org/?id=82


I generally check for updates daily. This is the only one I can see, did you 
try others? Note that you have to upload them one at a time, it will not do 
multiple file uploads in one go.


Thanks for your suggestions, will implement them as soon as I can.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Stefan Baebler mailto:stefan.baeb...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 30 August 2019 07:46:23
To: Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>>
Cc: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>; osm-talk 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Thanks, the uploading works now!

However, I cannot see my uploaded photospheres anywhere on the site, not even 
while being logged in, logging in again Neither on the map nor on some 
list. Not sure if it was successful or not.

Few suggestions:
- make it so that the uploader sees his own uploads immediately (no pending 
approvals etc needed) with a status clearly shown
- allow for lower zoom levels. Panning away from your demo area is slow in high 
zooms.
- search box should trigger searching when enter key is pressed
- after login you should remove oauth_token from the URL (either via JavaScript 
history.push or http redirect)
- persist current coordinates in the URL, so it is easy to share and bookmark 
links (there are plugins for leaflet, eg leaflet-hash)
- make the site more mobile friendly (text is extremely unreadable, buttons 
hard to hit...)

Thanks,
Stefan

V sre., 28. avg. 2019 19:11 je oseba Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> napisala:


Hello Stefan,


Have increased limit to 15 MB now - let me know if you still have problems. 
Still not mobile friendly just yet - will do this when I have the time.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Stefan Baebler mailto:stefan.baeb...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 25 August 2019 22:33:38
To: Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>>
Cc: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>; osm-talk 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Hi!

I have problems uploading full 360°*180° photospheres. All of them are around 
10MB, and could not find any below 5MB to test with. The error does not say 
much - no photo uploaded and no error code.

The size limit should be raised (eg to 15MB) in my opinion as there is no easy 
option to compress such images (eg by lowering the resolution).

Also the website is really hard to use on mobile devices. :-(

Br,
Stefan




V pet., 16. avg. 2019 19:05 je oseba Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> napisala:


Hello Simon,


Glad it's working for you!


It looks like it should be possible to show the view field on the map - a 
Leaflet plugin exists to draw semicircles for example, so I'll have a look into 
that - shouldn't be too difficult to implement.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>
Sent: 15 August 2019 18:17:46
To: talk@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org> 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Looks very nice and works very smoothly for me, thank you!

One functionality I think would be useful for orientation: somehow make
the current viewfield of the panorama visible in the little overview map
(or if that&

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Stefan,


Sorry - I have to approve panos before they go live, I've done this now. This 
is to guard against panos with privacy violations or unsuitable content. I 
presume yours is the one in the Alps at:


https://www.opentrailview.org/?id=82


I generally check for updates daily. This is the only one I can see, did you 
try others? Note that you have to upload them one at a time, it will not do 
multiple file uploads in one go.


Thanks for your suggestions, will implement them as soon as I can.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Stefan Baebler 
Sent: 30 August 2019 07:46:23
To: Nick Whitelegg 
Cc: Simon Polster ; osm-talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Thanks, the uploading works now!

However, I cannot see my uploaded photospheres anywhere on the site, not even 
while being logged in, logging in again Neither on the map nor on some 
list. Not sure if it was successful or not.

Few suggestions:
- make it so that the uploader sees his own uploads immediately (no pending 
approvals etc needed) with a status clearly shown
- allow for lower zoom levels. Panning away from your demo area is slow in high 
zooms.
- search box should trigger searching when enter key is pressed
- after login you should remove oauth_token from the URL (either via JavaScript 
history.push or http redirect)
- persist current coordinates in the URL, so it is easy to share and bookmark 
links (there are plugins for leaflet, eg leaflet-hash)
- make the site more mobile friendly (text is extremely unreadable, buttons 
hard to hit...)

Thanks,
Stefan

V sre., 28. avg. 2019 19:11 je oseba Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> napisala:


Hello Stefan,


Have increased limit to 15 MB now - let me know if you still have problems. 
Still not mobile friendly just yet - will do this when I have the time.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Stefan Baebler mailto:stefan.baeb...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 25 August 2019 22:33:38
To: Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>>
Cc: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>; osm-talk 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Hi!

I have problems uploading full 360°*180° photospheres. All of them are around 
10MB, and could not find any below 5MB to test with. The error does not say 
much - no photo uploaded and no error code.

The size limit should be raised (eg to 15MB) in my opinion as there is no easy 
option to compress such images (eg by lowering the resolution).

Also the website is really hard to use on mobile devices. :-(

Br,
Stefan




V pet., 16. avg. 2019 19:05 je oseba Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> napisala:


Hello Simon,


Glad it's working for you!


It looks like it should be possible to show the view field on the map - a 
Leaflet plugin exists to draw semicircles for example, so I'll have a look into 
that - shouldn't be too difficult to implement.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>
Sent: 15 August 2019 18:17:46
To: talk@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org> 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Looks very nice and works very smoothly for me, thank you!

One functionality I think would be useful for orientation: somehow make
the current viewfield of the panorama visible in the little overview map
(or if that's too difficult to implement at least link the rotation of
the panorama with the overview map so that they always share the same
geographic direction).

Cheers
Simon

Am 06/08/2019 um 16:58 schrieb Nick Whitelegg:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> To follow up my post of a couple of months ago, I have made a few updates to 
> OpenTrailView, a StreetView-like application which allows users to upload 360 
> panoramas which will then be automatically linked using underlying OSM ways, 
> allowing users to navigate from panorama to panorama.
>
>
> It now allows you to login with your OSM credentials, removing the need to 
> create a separate account - in fact I have removed the signup facility so if 
> you signed up before, you should now login using your OSM username instead.
>
>
> It also has a facility to allow you to set the position of a panorama if EXIF 
> latitude and longitude metadata is not present. This can be done either by 
> clicking on the map to position the panorama, or by using a GPX file recorded 
> at the same time to position panoramas automatically by using EXIF and GPX 
> timestamps.
>
>
> URL: https://www.opentrailview.org/
>
>
> <https://www.opentrailview.org/>
>
> Gitlab repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@open

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Stefan,


Have increased limit to 15 MB now - let me know if you still have problems. 
Still not mobile friendly just yet - will do this when I have the time.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Stefan Baebler 
Sent: 25 August 2019 22:33:38
To: Nick Whitelegg 
Cc: Simon Polster ; osm-talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Hi!

I have problems uploading full 360°*180° photospheres. All of them are around 
10MB, and could not find any below 5MB to test with. The error does not say 
much - no photo uploaded and no error code.

The size limit should be raised (eg to 15MB) in my opinion as there is no easy 
option to compress such images (eg by lowering the resolution).

Also the website is really hard to use on mobile devices. :-(

Br,
Stefan




V pet., 16. avg. 2019 19:05 je oseba Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> napisala:


Hello Simon,


Glad it's working for you!


It looks like it should be possible to show the view field on the map - a 
Leaflet plugin exists to draw semicircles for example, so I'll have a look into 
that - shouldn't be too difficult to implement.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Simon Polster mailto:sid...@posteo.de>>
Sent: 15 August 2019 18:17:46
To: talk@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org> 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Looks very nice and works very smoothly for me, thank you!

One functionality I think would be useful for orientation: somehow make
the current viewfield of the panorama visible in the little overview map
(or if that's too difficult to implement at least link the rotation of
the panorama with the overview map so that they always share the same
geographic direction).

Cheers
Simon

Am 06/08/2019 um 16:58 schrieb Nick Whitelegg:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> To follow up my post of a couple of months ago, I have made a few updates to 
> OpenTrailView, a StreetView-like application which allows users to upload 360 
> panoramas which will then be automatically linked using underlying OSM ways, 
> allowing users to navigate from panorama to panorama.
>
>
> It now allows you to login with your OSM credentials, removing the need to 
> create a separate account - in fact I have removed the signup facility so if 
> you signed up before, you should now login using your OSM username instead.
>
>
> It also has a facility to allow you to set the position of a panorama if EXIF 
> latitude and longitude metadata is not present. This can be done either by 
> clicking on the map to position the panorama, or by using a GPX file recorded 
> at the same time to position panoramas automatically by using EXIF and GPX 
> timestamps.
>
>
> URL: https://www.opentrailview.org/
>
>
> <https://www.opentrailview.org/>
>
> Gitlab repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

___
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Simon,


Glad it's working for you!


It looks like it should be possible to show the view field on the map - a 
Leaflet plugin exists to draw semicircles for example, so I'll have a look into 
that - shouldn't be too difficult to implement.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Simon Polster 
Sent: 15 August 2019 18:17:46
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Looks very nice and works very smoothly for me, thank you!

One functionality I think would be useful for orientation: somehow make
the current viewfield of the panorama visible in the little overview map
(or if that's too difficult to implement at least link the rotation of
the panorama with the overview map so that they always share the same
geographic direction).

Cheers
Simon

Am 06/08/2019 um 16:58 schrieb Nick Whitelegg:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> To follow up my post of a couple of months ago, I have made a few updates to 
> OpenTrailView, a StreetView-like application which allows users to upload 360 
> panoramas which will then be automatically linked using underlying OSM ways, 
> allowing users to navigate from panorama to panorama.
>
>
> It now allows you to login with your OSM credentials, removing the need to 
> create a separate account - in fact I have removed the signup facility so if 
> you signed up before, you should now login using your OSM username instead.
>
>
> It also has a facility to allow you to set the position of a panorama if EXIF 
> latitude and longitude metadata is not present. This can be done either by 
> clicking on the map to position the panorama, or by using a GPX file recorded 
> at the same time to position panoramas automatically by using EXIF and GPX 
> timestamps.
>
>
> URL: https://www.opentrailview.org/
>
>
> <https://www.opentrailview.org/>
>
> Gitlab repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

___
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talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
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talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


The reason for this is that there isn't a 'next' panorama as such; rather than 
a linear sequence of panoramas, it's a network, so at a junction there might be 
multiple routes to follow - it uses the underlying OSM way network to navigate.


It's in the todo list to provide Mapillary (and StreetView) like arrows 
superimposed on the ground, but this isn't implemented just yet.


Nick


From: Dave F 
Sent: 06 August 2019 16:18:46
To: osm-talk 
Cc: Nick Whitelegg 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

Hi

I find it slightly irritating the next panorama icon isn't in a constant 
location on the screen. Is there a key shortcut or maybe add directions arrows 
at the top of the screen similar to Mapilary?

Cheers
DaveF

On 06/08/2019 15:58, Nick Whitelegg wrote:


Hi,


To follow up my post of a couple of months ago, I have made a few updates to 
OpenTrailView, a StreetView-like application which allows users to upload 360 
panoramas which will then be automatically linked using underlying OSM ways, 
allowing users to navigate from panorama to panorama.


It now allows you to login with your OSM credentials, removing the need to 
create a separate account - in fact I have removed the signup facility so if 
you signed up before, you should now login using your OSM username instead.


It also has a facility to allow you to set the position of a panorama if EXIF 
latitude and longitude metadata is not present. This can be done either by 
clicking on the map to position the panorama, or by using a GPX file recorded 
at the same time to position panoramas automatically by using EXIF and GPX 
timestamps.


URL: https://www.opentrailview.org/


<https://www.opentrailview.org/><https://www.opentrailview.org/>

Gitlab repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/


Nick






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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


To follow up my post of a couple of months ago, I have made a few updates to 
OpenTrailView, a StreetView-like application which allows users to upload 360 
panoramas which will then be automatically linked using underlying OSM ways, 
allowing users to navigate from panorama to panorama.


It now allows you to login with your OSM credentials, removing the need to 
create a separate account - in fact I have removed the signup facility so if 
you signed up before, you should now login using your OSM username instead.


It also has a facility to allow you to set the position of a panorama if EXIF 
latitude and longitude metadata is not present. This can be done either by 
clicking on the map to position the panorama, or by using a GPX file recorded 
at the same time to position panoramas automatically by using EXIF and GPX 
timestamps.


URL: https://www.opentrailview.org/


<https://www.opentrailview.org/>

Gitlab repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/


Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for hikers

[Nick Whitelegg]

OK - this is now done.


Panoramas will be licensed under CC-BY 4.0 and users are required to agree to 
their panoramas being used as source material for OSM on signup.


Thanks,
Nick



From: Kathleen Lu 
Sent: 04 June 2019 17:15:01
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Martin Koppenhoefer; Milo van der Linden; OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers

In that case, if I were you, I'd just go straight CC-BY with a OSM/ODbL 
compatibility waiver. (See 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ for template 
language)
The "sharealike" in SA refers to the sharing conditions on derivatives, not the 
original. The BY part refers to the attribution requirement, which should 
inform future users how the panos are available under the original license.

CC-BY-SA would not permit the video I described being released on CC-BY terms, 
for example


On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 11:52 PM Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hi,


All I really want is to ensure the panos as individual entities (i.e. not as 
part of another piece of work) must be attributed (to "OTV360 contributors") 
and must be available as individual entities under the same  permissive license 
as originally provided.


I am not so bothered if people then use them as part of some other piece of 
work which is commercial  (such as a video with a narration, as you suggested) 
- as long as they are attributed.


Would ODBL be the best license in this case? Or CC-by-SA?


Thanks,

Nick


From: Kathleen Lu mailto:kathleen...@mapbox.com>>
Sent: 03 June 2019 18:03:50
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Martin Koppenhoefer; Milo van der Linden; OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers

So to confirm what you want...
If someone wanted to use the panos in a video, stitched together with photos 
they took and narration about a hike, that video must be CC-BY-SA or the panos 
cannot be used, is that right?



On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 4:58 AM Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Martin,


Yes, that sounds a good idea.


So (and asking everyone) if I was to license the panos themselves under CC-SA,  
but their locations, and data derived from them, as ODBL - does that sound 
acceptable?


Thanks,

Nick





From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 01 June 2019 08:25
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Kathleen Lu; Milo van der Linden; OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers



sent from a phone

On 31. May 2019, at 22:13, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Kathleen and Milo,

Thanks!


No-one besides myself has uploaded anything yet, so happy to change to ODbL. 
The panoramas are a different dataset to OSM however, now I think about it, it 
could well be they are a 'derived work' as the OSM map helps users to position 
them - so fine with the license change.


maybe you can make use of 2 licenses, cc-by-sa for the images/panoramas and 
odbl for data derived from these images? ODbL is a db license and isn’t very 
suitable for individual photographs?

Cheers, Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for hikers

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


All I really want is to ensure the panos as individual entities (i.e. not as 
part of another piece of work) must be attributed (to "OTV360 contributors") 
and must be available as individual entities under the same  permissive license 
as originally provided.


I am not so bothered if people then use them as part of some other piece of 
work which is commercial  (such as a video with a narration, as you suggested) 
- as long as they are attributed.


Would ODBL be the best license in this case? Or CC-by-SA?


Thanks,

Nick


From: Kathleen Lu 
Sent: 03 June 2019 18:03:50
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Martin Koppenhoefer; Milo van der Linden; OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers

So to confirm what you want...
If someone wanted to use the panos in a video, stitched together with photos 
they took and narration about a hike, that video must be CC-BY-SA or the panos 
cannot be used, is that right?



On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 4:58 AM Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Martin,


Yes, that sounds a good idea.


So (and asking everyone) if I was to license the panos themselves under CC-SA,  
but their locations, and data derived from them, as ODBL - does that sound 
acceptable?


Thanks,

Nick





From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 01 June 2019 08:25
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Kathleen Lu; Milo van der Linden; OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers



sent from a phone

On 31. May 2019, at 22:13, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Kathleen and Milo,

Thanks!


No-one besides myself has uploaded anything yet, so happy to change to ODbL. 
The panoramas are a different dataset to OSM however, now I think about it, it 
could well be they are a 'derived work' as the OSM map helps users to position 
them - so fine with the license change.


maybe you can make use of 2 licenses, cc-by-sa for the images/panoramas and 
odbl for data derived from these images? ODbL is a db license and isn’t very 
suitable for individual photographs?

Cheers, Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for hikers

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Martin,


Yes, that sounds a good idea.


So (and asking everyone) if I was to license the panos themselves under CC-SA,  
but their locations, and data derived from them, as ODBL - does that sound 
acceptable?


Thanks,

Nick





From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Sent: 01 June 2019 08:25
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: Kathleen Lu; Milo van der Linden; OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers



sent from a phone

On 31. May 2019, at 22:13, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hello Kathleen and Milo,

Thanks!


No-one besides myself has uploaded anything yet, so happy to change to ODbL. 
The panoramas are a different dataset to OSM however, now I think about it, it 
could well be they are a 'derived work' as the OSM map helps users to position 
them - so fine with the license change.


maybe you can make use of 2 licenses, cc-by-sa for the images/panoramas and 
odbl for data derived from these images? ODbL is a db license and isn’t very 
suitable for individual photographs?

Cheers, Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for hikers

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Andrew,


>A neat thing you can do is infill the base of the image where your 
>hand/body/head are to make it less distracting. For example all >my 360 images 
>on Mapillary do this -> https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/xfQGW4eK_ntjhRNyXDW5bQ

>The script I use for this is 
>https://github.com/andrewharvey/lg360-mapillary-helpers/blob/master/lg360_inpaint
> which uses gmic's >inpaint capabilities 
>http://gmic.eu/reference.shtml#inpaint_matchpatch. The script takes a 
>black/white mask, then patches that part >of the image on a thumbnail sized 
>image (to make it faster) then composites that into the final output.


Thanks for this, looks great. Yes - removing or hiding the photographer was 
definitely one of the main problems I've had so far. I hid myself crudely (by 
blanking out regions of the image manually) on photos in which my face was 
showing but didn't on the others.


Thanks,

Nick



From: Andrew Harvey 
Sent: 01 June 2019 04:58:35
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: osm-talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers

A neat thing you can do is infill the base of the image where your 
hand/body/head are to make it less distracting. For example all my 360 images 
on Mapillary do this -> https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/xfQGW4eK_ntjhRNyXDW5bQ

The script I use for this is 
https://github.com/andrewharvey/lg360-mapillary-helpers/blob/master/lg360_inpaint
 which uses gmic's inpaint capabilities 
http://gmic.eu/reference.shtml#inpaint_matchpatch. The script takes a 
black/white mask, then patches that part of the image on a thumbnail sized 
image (to make it faster) then composites that into the final output.

On Fri, 31 May 2019 at 21:49, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hi,


Some of you are probably aware that way back in 2010 I started developing 
OpenTrailView , which aims to be a StreetView-like web application but focusing 
on off-road routes such as hiking trails, with crowd-sourced panoramas.


Recently, due to the increasing availability of 360 cameras and the appearance 
of mature panorama APIs (e.g. Pannellum) and client-side routing APIs (GeoJSON 
Path Finder) I have restarted work on OpenTrailView and did an initial 
presentation at FOSDEM 2019 back in February.


Since then I have done further work and OpenTrailView, while still incomplete, 
is in a state where I believe it's ready to start receiving contributions.


It's available at

https://www.opentrailview.org/


You can get an idea of how it allows you to 'walk' along OSM ways by navigating 
in the default area (Southampton Common). There are also some panoramas 
available close to Fernhurst, West Sussex (lat 51.05, lon -0.72). There's a 
Nominatim search available if you switch to 'map' mode (see the map icon).


If you signup and then login, you can contribute your own 360 panos. Obviously 
follow the usual privacy considerations (no faces, no car number plates) - 
panos will be moderated before they go live to ensure they do not have any 
privacy violations amongst other things.


The key thing about this version is that it will use underlying OSM data to 
auto-connect panoramas. This was not done on any previous version.


However, note that while the site will accept panos anywhere in the world, at 
present, the auto-connection facility will only work in *Europe* plus Turkey (I 
am using the Europe Geofabrik extract), as my server currently only stores 
European data. Nonetheless I have had a possible offer of helping with hosting 
costs so expansion to the entire world could well happen soon.


The maps provided are rather basic, showing only highways, coastlines and a few 
selected POIs, this is due to server capacity constraints. If anyone is aware 
of a tile server I can use legitimately as a replacement, without violating the 
usage policy, please let me know.


In similar style to OSM, panos will be copyright 'OTV360 contributors' and 
licensed under CC-by-SA. IANAL but this seems to be the most common practice.


Do remember once again that this is an unfinished product but it is now in a 
state where I believe it is of interest to contributors.


Gitlab: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/


Thanks,

Nick





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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for hikers

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Kathleen and Milo,

Thanks!


No-one besides myself has uploaded anything yet, so happy to change to ODbL. 
The panoramas are a different dataset to OSM however, now I think about it, it 
could well be they are a 'derived work' as the OSM map helps users to position 
them - so fine with the license change.


Nick


From: Kathleen Lu 
Sent: 31 May 2019 19:31:52
To: Milo van der Linden
Cc: Nick Whitelegg; OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers

Looks neat, Nick!

I will say that given that OSM is under ODbL, which is not compatible with 
CC-BY-SA (see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility) I 
would suggest that you consider using ODbL as the license instead of CC-BY-SA.

Best,
Kathleen

On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 10:22 AM Milo van der Linden 
mailto:m...@dogodigi.net>> wrote:
Cool! It looks and interacts awesome.

On Fri, May 31, 2019, 18:43 Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:

Thanks! Actually used Pannellum: https://pannellum.org/


<https://pannellum.org/>

Note that there is one little issue, which I thought I'd resolved, but has 
recurred today, and *might* be down to Pannellum: occasionally (and 
inconsistently, i.e. there isn't a sequence of actions which causes it to 
happen) if you click on a camera icon when in map mode it doesn't load the 
panorama. Most of the time it's fine though.



Nick


From: Milo van der Linden mailto:m...@dogodigi.net>>
Sent: 31 May 2019 17:20:57
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: osm-talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers

Nice! Did you create your own panoviewer or did you use 
https://www.marzipano.net/?

Op vr 31 mei 2019 om 13:46 schreef Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>>:


Hi,


Some of you are probably aware that way back in 2010 I started developing 
OpenTrailView , which aims to be a StreetView-like web application but focusing 
on off-road routes such as hiking trails, with crowd-sourced panoramas.


Recently, due to the increasing availability of 360 cameras and the appearance 
of mature panorama APIs (e.g. Pannellum) and client-side routing APIs (GeoJSON 
Path Finder) I have restarted work on OpenTrailView and did an initial 
presentation at FOSDEM 2019 back in February.


Since then I have done further work and OpenTrailView, while still incomplete, 
is in a state where I believe it's ready to start receiving contributions.


It's available at

https://www.opentrailview.org/


You can get an idea of how it allows you to 'walk' along OSM ways by navigating 
in the default area (Southampton Common). There are also some panoramas 
available close to Fernhurst, West Sussex (lat 51.05, lon -0.72). There's a 
Nominatim search available if you switch to 'map' mode (see the map icon).


If you signup and then login, you can contribute your own 360 panos. Obviously 
follow the usual privacy considerations (no faces, no car number plates) - 
panos will be moderated before they go live to ensure they do not have any 
privacy violations amongst other things.


The key thing about this version is that it will use underlying OSM data to 
auto-connect panoramas. This was not done on any previous version.


However, note that while the site will accept panos anywhere in the world, at 
present, the auto-connection facility will only work in *Europe* plus Turkey (I 
am using the Europe Geofabrik extract), as my server currently only stores 
European data. Nonetheless I have had a possible offer of helping with hosting 
costs so expansion to the entire world could well happen soon.


The maps provided are rather basic, showing only highways, coastlines and a few 
selected POIs, this is due to server capacity constraints. If anyone is aware 
of a tile server I can use legitimately as a replacement, without violating the 
usage policy, please let me know.


In similar style to OSM, panos will be copyright 'OTV360 contributors' and 
licensed under CC-by-SA. IANAL but this seems to be the most common practice.


Do remember once again that this is an unfinished product but it is now in a 
state where I believe it is of interest to contributors.


Gitlab: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/


Thanks,

Nick





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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for hikers

[Nick Whitelegg]

Thanks! Actually used Pannellum: https://pannellum.org/


<https://pannellum.org/>

Note that there is one little issue, which I thought I'd resolved, but has 
recurred today, and *might* be down to Pannellum: occasionally (and 
inconsistently, i.e. there isn't a sequence of actions which causes it to 
happen) if you click on a camera icon when in map mode it doesn't load the 
panorama. Most of the time it's fine though.



Nick


From: Milo van der Linden 
Sent: 31 May 2019 17:20:57
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: osm-talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for 
hikers

Nice! Did you create your own panoviewer or did you use 
https://www.marzipano.net/?

Op vr 31 mei 2019 om 13:46 schreef Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>>:


Hi,


Some of you are probably aware that way back in 2010 I started developing 
OpenTrailView , which aims to be a StreetView-like web application but focusing 
on off-road routes such as hiking trails, with crowd-sourced panoramas.


Recently, due to the increasing availability of 360 cameras and the appearance 
of mature panorama APIs (e.g. Pannellum) and client-side routing APIs (GeoJSON 
Path Finder) I have restarted work on OpenTrailView and did an initial 
presentation at FOSDEM 2019 back in February.


Since then I have done further work and OpenTrailView, while still incomplete, 
is in a state where I believe it's ready to start receiving contributions.


It's available at

https://www.opentrailview.org/


You can get an idea of how it allows you to 'walk' along OSM ways by navigating 
in the default area (Southampton Common). There are also some panoramas 
available close to Fernhurst, West Sussex (lat 51.05, lon -0.72). There's a 
Nominatim search available if you switch to 'map' mode (see the map icon).


If you signup and then login, you can contribute your own 360 panos. Obviously 
follow the usual privacy considerations (no faces, no car number plates) - 
panos will be moderated before they go live to ensure they do not have any 
privacy violations amongst other things.


The key thing about this version is that it will use underlying OSM data to 
auto-connect panoramas. This was not done on any previous version.


However, note that while the site will accept panos anywhere in the world, at 
present, the auto-connection facility will only work in *Europe* plus Turkey (I 
am using the Europe Geofabrik extract), as my server currently only stores 
European data. Nonetheless I have had a possible offer of helping with hosting 
costs so expansion to the entire world could well happen soon.


The maps provided are rather basic, showing only highways, coastlines and a few 
selected POIs, this is due to server capacity constraints. If anyone is aware 
of a tile server I can use legitimately as a replacement, without violating the 
usage policy, please let me know.


In similar style to OSM, panos will be copyright 'OTV360 contributors' and 
licensed under CC-by-SA. IANAL but this seems to be the most common practice.


Do remember once again that this is an unfinished product but it is now in a 
state where I believe it is of interest to contributors.


Gitlab: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/


Thanks,

Nick





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[OSM-talk] OpenTrailView 360 - StreetView-like application for hikers

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


Some of you are probably aware that way back in 2010 I started developing 
OpenTrailView , which aims to be a StreetView-like web application but focusing 
on off-road routes such as hiking trails, with crowd-sourced panoramas.


Recently, due to the increasing availability of 360 cameras and the appearance 
of mature panorama APIs (e.g. Pannellum) and client-side routing APIs (GeoJSON 
Path Finder) I have restarted work on OpenTrailView and did an initial 
presentation at FOSDEM 2019 back in February.


Since then I have done further work and OpenTrailView, while still incomplete, 
is in a state where I believe it's ready to start receiving contributions.


It's available at

https://www.opentrailview.org/


You can get an idea of how it allows you to 'walk' along OSM ways by navigating 
in the default area (Southampton Common). There are also some panoramas 
available close to Fernhurst, West Sussex (lat 51.05, lon -0.72). There's a 
Nominatim search available if you switch to 'map' mode (see the map icon).


If you signup and then login, you can contribute your own 360 panos. Obviously 
follow the usual privacy considerations (no faces, no car number plates) - 
panos will be moderated before they go live to ensure they do not have any 
privacy violations amongst other things.


The key thing about this version is that it will use underlying OSM data to 
auto-connect panoramas. This was not done on any previous version.


However, note that while the site will accept panos anywhere in the world, at 
present, the auto-connection facility will only work in *Europe* plus Turkey (I 
am using the Europe Geofabrik extract), as my server currently only stores 
European data. Nonetheless I have had a possible offer of helping with hosting 
costs so expansion to the entire world could well happen soon.


The maps provided are rather basic, showing only highways, coastlines and a few 
selected POIs, this is due to server capacity constraints. If anyone is aware 
of a tile server I can use legitimately as a replacement, without violating the 
usage policy, please let me know.


In similar style to OSM, panos will be copyright 'OTV360 contributors' and 
licensed under CC-by-SA. IANAL but this seems to be the most common practice.


Do remember once again that this is an unfinished product but it is now in a 
state where I believe it is of interest to contributors.


Gitlab: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/


Thanks,

Nick





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[OSM-talk] Hikar (OSM AR for walkers) - now fixed and available again

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello everyone,

Apologies for the non-availability of my OSM augmented reality app Hikar
(announced on March 29th) from Google Play over the weekend. Unfortunately
I left some test code in the last release which prevented GPS locations
being processed.

As I was on holiday with no access to a development machine I figured it
was best to temporarily unpublish it.

It's now fixed and published again and you should be getting an update soon
if you haven't already. The corrected version is 0.2.3, the broken version
is 0.2.2.

Apologies once again for the downtime.

Nick
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[OSM-talk] Hikar - OSM augmented reality for walkers - now covering whole Europe, with virtual signposts

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


Just a quick announcement that I have just released the latest version (0.2.0) 
of "Hikar", my augmented reality app for walkers and hikers showing footpaths 
and signposts on the camera feed.


Main changes are that it now covers the whole of Europe (thanks to affordable 
hosting by Hetzner) and also features virtual signposts pointing the way to 
nearby points of interest.


It's available on Google Play at

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=freemap.hikar


and source code is available at

https://gitlab.com/nickw1/hikar


A few caveats, for example you won't get a perfect match between the real-world 
and OSM data due to GPS inaccuracies (both device and surveyed path), it's 
battery intensive and doesn't have a really nice UI (though is usable for 
navigation).


Also note that it's unlikely to work effectively in large cities (e.g. London, 
Paris) due to sheer volume of data. It's aimed more at countryside use or 
smaller cities and towns.


It appears stable from testing but do let me know any crashes/bugs, including 
the lat/lon the crash occurred (this will help debugging immensely), either via


https://gitlab.com/nickw1/Hikar/issues


or via email hikar...@gmail.com.


It requires 4.2+ but for an unknown reason will not work on the Amazon Fire HD 
10.


Thanks,

Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

[Nick Whitelegg]

>This will leave your site down between the delete and import of new data.

>It's also going to be fragile, because using append mode with a file that 
>isn't a diff isn't supported, and if the area has a lot of footpaths, it'll be 
>slower, since >append has to do more work.

>If you match the SQL delete and osmosis filtering carefully you shouldn't get 
>too many errors, but you've probably got some to do with updates and >changing 
>object types.

>As long as you're aware of these problems and it works for your needs, I'd say 
>to go for it.


Thanks. I have actually used append frequently over several years and never had 
a problem with it; main issue is that memory is expensive on servers so I have 
to do take various less-than-ideal steps to work round low memory.


The intention is to bring the site down over the (say) 2-3 hours the update is 
taking place; this is what I used to do when I last performed weekly updates. 
This would be scheduled for (probably) Wednesday 0100-0400 UK time, a time that 
the server is likely to see little traffic as it's UK and Ireland oriented; at 
such time most of Europe will be asleep. Granted there might be a few 
out-of-Europe visitors at that time; but as my site is quite niche with limited 
visitors, I consider this acceptable downtime.


Nick


From: Paul Norman 
Sent: 13 November 2018 10:12:58
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

On 2018-11-11 7:53 AM, Nick Whitelegg wrote:


After thinking about this, I realised that I don't really want to update _all_ 
the data that often. The only thing I need to update on a weekly basis is the 
footpaths (I'm not so bothered if say the roads, or the pubs are a year out of 
date - as long as newly mapped footpaths appear quickly). So what I'm now doing 
is just doing an osmosis extract of paths weekly, deleting all data in the DB 
which I class as a 'path' and repopulating in amend mode.

This will leave your site down between the delete and import of new data.

It's also going to be fragile, because using append mode with a file that isn't 
a diff isn't supported, and if the area has a lot of footpaths, it'll be 
slower, since append has to do more work.

If you match the SQL delete and osmosis filtering carefully you shouldn't get 
too many errors, but you've probably got some to do with updates and changing 
object types.

As long as you're aware of these problems and it works for your needs, I'd say 
to go for it.
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

[Nick Whitelegg]

Thanks for all the replies.


After thinking about this, I realised that I don't really want to update _all_ 
the data that often. The only thing I need to update on a weekly basis is the 
footpaths (I'm not so bothered if say the roads, or the pubs are a year out of 
date - as long as newly mapped footpaths appear quickly). So what I'm now doing 
is just doing an osmosis extract of paths weekly, deleting all data in the DB 
which I class as a 'path' and repopulating in amend mode.


Thanks,

Nick



From: Paul Norman 
Sent: 08 November 2018 20:10:14
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

On 2018-11-08 6:34 AM, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

At the moment I download full planet extracts about every 6 months. However, 
due to the limitations of my server, I filter out (with osmosis) a lot of stuff 
I don't need so that I am basically left with roads, footpaths, natural 
features, water features and selected POIs.


I'd like to move towards a system which applies diffs from geofabrik instead, 
and applies them regularly (daily or weekly) with osm2pgsql.


My question is this; given that not everything in the diff will be in my 
database (as I filter out what I don't need during the import process), will 
osm2pgsql apply the diff successfully or will it complain that not all features 
in the diff are in my database?

I can think of four ways to do this, all which have a different balance of 
correctness, performance, and ease of use.

There are two "right" ways to do this. The first one is to re-import every 
week. Because imports without slim tables (either --slim --drop or no --slim) 
are faster, this is a good option and needs less space than a database able to 
consume diffs.

The second right way involves keeping two files, one with the current full 
data, and one with the filtered data. Call these "planet.pbf" and 
"planet-filtered.pbf". Then when updating create "planet-new.pbf", filter it to 
get "planet-filtered-new.pbf", create a diff for the differences between 
"planet-filtered-new.pbf" and "planet-filtered.pbf", and apply that diff to the 
database. Then replace the old files with the new ones. This will keep the 
database correct.

A "wrong" way to do it is to import the filtered data, apply updates directly, 
and periodically delete data from the DB. The problem with this is that if 
someone adds one of the selected POI tags to a building that you have filtered 
out, osm2pgsql won't have the node data to create a geometry. This might be 
acceptable, depending on use case.

A less wrong way would be to modify your filtering so no nodes are filtered 
out. There are still potential errors with relations, but these are less 
common. If you're doing the planet or a large extract and using flat nodes 
there's no storage penalty for having all the nodes.
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

[Nick Whitelegg]

... append mode!





From: Nick Whitelegg
Sent: 11 November 2018 15:53:18
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data



Thanks for all the replies.


After thinking about this, I realised that I don't really want to update _all_ 
the data that often. The only thing I need to update on a weekly basis is the 
footpaths (I'm not so bothered if say the roads, or the pubs are a year out of 
date - as long as newly mapped footpaths appear quickly). So what I'm now doing 
is just doing an osmosis extract of paths weekly, deleting all data in the DB 
which I class as a 'path' and repopulating in amend mode.


Thanks,

Nick



From: Paul Norman 
Sent: 08 November 2018 20:10:14
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

On 2018-11-08 6:34 AM, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

At the moment I download full planet extracts about every 6 months. However, 
due to the limitations of my server, I filter out (with osmosis) a lot of stuff 
I don't need so that I am basically left with roads, footpaths, natural 
features, water features and selected POIs.


I'd like to move towards a system which applies diffs from geofabrik instead, 
and applies them regularly (daily or weekly) with osm2pgsql.


My question is this; given that not everything in the diff will be in my 
database (as I filter out what I don't need during the import process), will 
osm2pgsql apply the diff successfully or will it complain that not all features 
in the diff are in my database?

I can think of four ways to do this, all which have a different balance of 
correctness, performance, and ease of use.

There are two "right" ways to do this. The first one is to re-import every 
week. Because imports without slim tables (either --slim --drop or no --slim) 
are faster, this is a good option and needs less space than a database able to 
consume diffs.

The second right way involves keeping two files, one with the current full 
data, and one with the filtered data. Call these "planet.pbf" and 
"planet-filtered.pbf". Then when updating create "planet-new.pbf", filter it to 
get "planet-filtered-new.pbf", create a diff for the differences between 
"planet-filtered-new.pbf" and "planet-filtered.pbf", and apply that diff to the 
database. Then replace the old files with the new ones. This will keep the 
database correct.

A "wrong" way to do it is to import the filtered data, apply updates directly, 
and periodically delete data from the DB. The problem with this is that if 
someone adds one of the selected POI tags to a building that you have filtered 
out, osm2pgsql won't have the node data to create a geometry. This might be 
acceptable, depending on use case.

A less wrong way would be to modify your filtering so no nodes are filtered 
out. There are still potential errors with relations, but these are less 
common. If you're doing the planet or a large extract and using flat nodes 
there's no storage penalty for having all the nodes.
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Darafei and Frederik,


OK - thanks for that.


What I will do therefore, to avoid unwanted data, is to generate a filtered 
planet extract and import that into the DB, and then generate another filtered 
extract and find the diff between the two. Advantage of that is that I'll only 
need to  do the first filtering run on the server, and subsequent runs on my 
local machine (assuming the resulting diff is small enough to upload from my 
local machine to the server).


Thanks,

Nick



From: Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski 
Sent: 08 November 2018 16:16:48
To: Nick Whitelegg
Cc: osm-talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

Hi Nick,

osm2pgsql is tolerant to features absent in database. You can in theory even 
start with empty set of tables and just insert new diff data.

Usually people also clip minutely osc, as per day database grows by a small 
country otherwise.

чт, 8 нояб. 2018 г. в 17:37, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>>:


... sorry, when I say "full planet extracts" I mean only England, Wales, 
Scotland, Ireland (all) and Greece - not the entire planet.

Thanks,

Nick


From: Nick Whitelegg
Sent: 08 November 2018 14:34:17
To: osm-talk
Subject: osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data



Hi,


Looking towards overhauling the import system I use for my Freemap site 
(free-map.org.uk<http://free-map.org.uk>) which is itself going to go through 
an overhaul in the near future by moving to Tangram and hopefully applying hill 
shading.


At the moment I download full planet extracts about every 6 months. However, 
due to the limitations of my server, I filter out (with osmosis) a lot of stuff 
I don't need so that I am basically left with roads, footpaths, natural 
features, water features and selected POIs.


I'd like to move towards a system which applies diffs from geofabrik instead, 
and applies them regularly (daily or weekly) with osm2pgsql.


My question is this; given that not everything in the diff will be in my 
database (as I filter out what I don't need during the import process), will 
osm2pgsql apply the diff successfully or will it complain that not all features 
in the diff are in my database?


Thanks,

Nick

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Support me: http://patreon.com/komzpa
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

[Nick Whitelegg]

... sorry, when I say "full planet extracts" I mean only England, Wales, 
Scotland, Ireland (all) and Greece - not the entire planet.

Thanks,

Nick

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From: Nick Whitelegg
Sent: 08 November 2018 14:34:17
To: osm-talk
Subject: osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data



Hi,


Looking towards overhauling the import system I use for my Freemap site 
(free-map.org.uk) which is itself going to go through an overhaul in the near 
future by moving to Tangram and hopefully applying hill shading.


At the moment I download full planet extracts about every 6 months. However, 
due to the limitations of my server, I filter out (with osmosis) a lot of stuff 
I don't need so that I am basically left with roads, footpaths, natural 
features, water features and selected POIs.


I'd like to move towards a system which applies diffs from geofabrik instead, 
and applies them regularly (daily or weekly) with osm2pgsql.


My question is this; given that not everything in the diff will be in my 
database (as I filter out what I don't need during the import process), will 
osm2pgsql apply the diff successfully or will it complain that not all features 
in the diff are in my database?


Thanks,

Nick

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[OSM-talk] osm2pgsql diff application with filtered OSM data

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


Looking towards overhauling the import system I use for my Freemap site 
(free-map.org.uk) which is itself going to go through an overhaul in the near 
future by moving to Tangram and hopefully applying hill shading.


At the moment I download full planet extracts about every 6 months. However, 
due to the limitations of my server, I filter out (with osmosis) a lot of stuff 
I don't need so that I am basically left with roads, footpaths, natural 
features, water features and selected POIs.


I'd like to move towards a system which applies diffs from geofabrik instead, 
and applies them regularly (daily or weekly) with osm2pgsql.


My question is this; given that not everything in the diff will be in my 
database (as I filter out what I don't need during the import process), will 
osm2pgsql apply the diff successfully or will it complain that not all features 
in the diff are in my database?


Thanks,

Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mobile Application for optimizing OSM ski area data

[Nick Whitelegg]

As others have said, users should authenticate with their own OSM accounts so 
that malicious edits can be detected.


There's a very good Java library - osmapi - which I would strongly recommend 
for doing editing from within an Android app. It's developed by Tobias Zwick, 
developer of StreetComplete, and is available here:


https://github.com/westnordost/osmapi

<https://github.com/westnordost/osmapi>

To use OAuth, you can use another very good open source library: Signpost.


I myself have developed a custom editor in recent months, using osmapi and 
Signpost - it's aimed at allowing England and Wales footpath mappers to add 
rights of way quickly and easily to OSM. It's a bit rough round the edges, but 
you might find the code useful for reference. StreetComplete itself is also a 
good point of reference, though that's a significantly more complex app.


https://gitlab.com/nickw1/mapthepaths-android


Nick




<https://github.com/westnordost/osmapi>



From: Valentina Böhm 
Sent: 26 October 2018 13:22:16
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] Mobile Application for optimizing OSM ski area data


I am planning to develop an mobile app to optimize ski area data provided by 
OSM. The user should be able to use the app for locating him- or herself in a 
ski area and have a look at all the different slopes and lifts and all their 
details. But the user should also be able to optimize the data of the ski area. 
First of all for the better experience when using the app for navigating. But 
also for providing OSM optimized and more detailed data about ski areas.

If a user wants to optimize the data he or she can either manually change the 
data, for example, edit the name or reference number of a slope or lift. Or he 
or she can provide their movement data by tracking it with the application 
while skiing. The tracked data should, in the end, help to fill gaps between 
slopes or slopes and lifts. Or even detect new unknown slopes.

What would you recommend regarding authentication? Is it ok if users of my app 
are committing data on my behalf or should all users have their own OSM account?

If users have their own account, is it possible and ok if I prepare the data 
with my algorithm and commit the data on their behalf?

In general, what is your recommendation regarding this kind of third-party 
integration? Are special API tokens provided for third-party apps?

I’m also interested in feedback about the idea. Are there similar projects? 
What do you think of my idea?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Really heavy browser load with Overpass-turbo map display

[Nick Whitelegg]

I can also confirm that the lagginess of MapThePaths (UK site aimed at mapping 
footpaths), which first appeared in 62.0, has disappeared in 62.0.3.


It too uses a GeoJSON vector layer.


Nick



From: Dave F 
Sent: 03 October 2018 23:15:29
To: osm-talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Really heavy browser load with Overpass-turbo map 
display

It appears to have been fixed in FF v62.0.3 (64bit)

Cheers
DaveF

On 23/09/2018 21:55, François Lacombe wrote:
Hi Dave
Thanks for your input

Is Leaflet aware and will fix the issue?
Switching to an older version of a browser isn't neutral and raise security 
considerations as always.

I didn't find anything relative to this problem on Leaflet github

All the best

François

Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 21:13, Dave F 
mailto:davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>> a écrit :
It appears it maybe Leaflet &/or Firefox related. Reports are it doesn't occur 
in Chrome/IE.

If your turn off Firefox auto updates & install an older version (I used v60.0 
from FileHippo) it prevents it.

Cheers
DaveF

On 23/09/2018 17:41, François Lacombe wrote:
HI all,

It's been a few days that my browser bear a heavy load when running many 
queries like https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yUw, with overpass turbo.

Was any change done on the frontend to get such a load on client side?

Tested on firefox 62 64bits

All the best

François



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Re: [OSM-talk] Really heavy browser load with Overpass-turbo map display

[Nick Whitelegg]

As mentioned in the other thread, the problem appears to have gone away with 
Firefox 62.0.3.


Nick


From: Lester Caine 
Sent: 04 October 2018 08:47:18
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Really heavy browser load with Overpass-turbo map 
display

On 24/09/2018 20:36, Dave F wrote:
>> Switching to an older version of a browser isn't neutral and raise
>> security considerations as always.
>
> Usability is the same & 61.0 works OK & is only 2 months old. Personally
> I wouldn't rely on browser security.

There are a number of problems resulting from the major surgery Firefox
recently went through which are only slowly getting fixed. It would have
been much more sensible to maintain the original build in parallel until
more of the core functions and disabled extensions were made functional
and compatible. I'm still struggling with the lack of Firebug as the
replacement has problems with font sizes at least on linux and does not
provide some of the nice features Firebug STILL provides on my
development machine.

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - https://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Nick Whitelegg]

Could one of the reasons be that open source developers are doing this in their 
own time and have a million other responsibilities in their lives?

TBH I think it's a case of live with it and read the documentation. There are 
more important things to worry about. [?]


Nick

<http://www.solent.ac.uk/disclaimer/disclaimer.aspx>

From: Dave F 
Sent: 24 April 2017 11:31:24
To: OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

Hi

I'm unsure why go on about anyone being "thrown out".

I'm unsure why doing it inconsistently in the past in 'legacy' code is
any reason for not trying to sort it out for the future.

Programmers can reformat to any standard* of their desire /within/ their
own program. It can't be hard to do; it is, after all, pure ASCII text.
What's irritating is the responsibility oft the syntax has been passed
on to the end user.

What are the reasons the authors of the programs listed can't coordinate
with each other to simplify it for users within OSM community?

* Are they really adhering to a 'standard' or just doing it one way
because a competitor did it another?

DaveF

On 23/04/2017 08:29, Roland Olbricht wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> Is there /really/ any need for *six* coordinate formats? It's hard
>> enough to learn a new process without basics like this tripping you up.
>
> There is nobody who is trusted enough to set an universal standard:
> https://xkcd.com/927/
>
> Basically, there is an ISO standard
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_6709
> to have latitude before longitude. Leaflet complies, OpenLayers does not.
>
> This is for historical reasons. When multiple projections were
> commonplace as exchange formats, then they often used x and y as names
> for the two numbers, and x often decoded to something loosely or
> tightly related to longitude.
>
> However, OpenLayers is too useful to be thrown out just for having the
> wrong coordinate order. The same applies to a lot of other tools with
> legacy coordinate order.
>
> To have a gentle pressure towards the ISO standard, the advertised
> interface is latitude-longitude. There are some precautions for inert
> legacy tools:
> http://dev.overpass-api.de/blog/bounding_boxes.html#lonlat_bbox
>
> As Lester has pointed out, XML requires explicit parameter names. By
> the way, I am not aware of anybody actively using the XML syntax. You
> can safely ignore that.
>
> For the delimiter question: There are programming languages with a
> combined market share of almost 90% that agree to have to semanticy in
> whitespace. The sole widespread-used exception is Python. Once again:
> Are you seriously asking the OSM community for a crusade to throw out
> Python for minor syntactic infrigement?
>
> Beside Python, the delimiters are always commas and semi-colons. As
> commas tend to be used to delimit parameters, they are for the numbers
> of the bounding box the delimiters of choice.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roland
>


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Re: [OSM-talk] Responding to vandalism

[Nick Hocking]

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if I'm repeating something.

How about we introduce into editors (that advanced users use) a default
behaviour that at above a certain zoom level, all features that have been
edited in the last 24 hours are somehow colourised. Features edited between
1 and two days a different colour, and up to seven days ago, further
different colours.   One keystroke could remove all this colourisation.

This would not address deletion Vandalism but would attract the attention
of advanced mappers to suspiccious edits.
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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM EU

[Nick Whitelegg]

Yeah, I know that UK citizens would not be shut out of it, our community is way 
too broad-minded for that... but couldn't resist a bit of satire directed at 
our own government. :-)


From: Christoph Hormann 
Sent: 19 January 2017 09:58:58
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM EU


The name 'SOTM EU' is probably too often read with a political
connotation - better to see it just as SOTM Europe, in principle this
could take place outside the EU as well - Switzerland, Norway,
Russia, ...

--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM EU

[Nick Whitelegg]

There certainly should be now... else thanks to our Dear Leader May, us in the 
UK will be shut out of it in a couple of years!


[?]


(Sorry for the politics!)


From: Martijn van Exel 
Sent: 18 January 2017 23:49:26
To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list
Subject: [OSM-talk] SOTM EU

Hi all,

I am curious - are there plans for a SOTM EU this year?

Martijn
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Re: [OSM-talk] Beware Pokemon users

[Nick Hocking]

How about we ask the game maker to code in (and let slip in social media)
that lots of new pokemon stuff may appear on every OSM residential road,
outside a residence that has a street number (in OSM) equal to todays day
number (e.g 28 - for today). Of course all the other OSM address tags must
also be correct for this stuff to appear.
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Re: [OSM-talk] GeoServer and OpenStreetMap

[Nick Hocking]

Thanks all,

I'll start the process this weekend but I suspect it will be a long slow
process with lots of new learning for me.

Cheers
Nick
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[OSM-talk] GeoServer and OpenStreetMap

[Nick Hocking]

Has anyone here put OSM data into GeoServer.

Is there a primer somewhere to help me along the way.


Nick
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Re: [OSM-talk] Spoken street names

[Nick Hocking]

I've yet to find a product for Windows Phone that does TTS.  Navmii does it
only on Android and Ios.  Maybe Scout does but it is not available in
Australia.
OsmAnd (and the $8 upgrade OsmAnd+) is brilliant. The offline maps and
offline Wikipedia POI's make this a must have item for all tourists. Once
the developers put a 3d navigation screen in it, it will be ideal for all
hire cars in the world.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Spoken street names

[Nick Hocking]

I have tried OsmAnd and Magic Earth on Android and Magic Earth on IOs and
they seem to work well, althouth Magic Earth did some crazy routing.  I
will compare the same route on OsmAnd Magic Earth and Garmin (OSM maps) and
OsmR to see if it is a data problem or routing issue.

I still haven't got Navmii to use TTS on Windows-phone but have contacted
the vendor.

I tried Mapfactor on windows-phone but couldn't get TTS to work. - will try
again tonight on windows-phone and android.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Spoken street names

[Nick Hocking]

I just tried Scout again (on the iphone) and it didn't do TTS
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Re: [OSM-talk] Spoken street names

[Nick Hocking]

I've already tried Navmii on my windows phone. I like it a lot but it
doesn't do TTS (Spoken Street names) - as far as I can tell.

I've tried scout on my iPhone (a few years ago - overseas) . From memory,
it did TTS but let itself down in late turn announcements. Also you can't
purchase the software and I'm not interested in renting it.

Osmand only seems to work on Android so I'll have to go out and buy a cheap
android phone tomorrow.

This is all so I can recommend OSM to others. For myself, when driving I
use a garmin device with routable OSM maps from openmapchest and of course
the garmins all have TTS. When walking I don't require TTS so any software
is good enough.
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[OSM-talk] Spoken street names

[Nick Hocking]

Is there any navigation software (for a Mobile phone) that uses offline OSM
data and also has spoken street names?
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenRandomMap

[Nick Whitelegg]

That is a lot of words in wordlist.txt!


Most amusing so far  "OpenTrueToadMap"


Also got "OpenBarMap" and "OpenCentralParkMap" which sould real.


Nick



From: Tim Waters 
Sent: 28 January 2016 16:01
To: Russ Nelson
Cc: OSM Talk List
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenRandomMap

Great site! I got OpenRiceMap which you could actually imagine happening 
(although with maybe the same likelihood happening as OpenSantaMap)
You could add an affiliate link to namecheap or something and give profits to 
OSMF!

On 23 January 2016 at 19:04, Russ Nelson 
mailto:nel...@crynwr.com>> wrote:
If the goal of having a map on the front page of osm.org<http://osm.org> is to
illustrate the extent of our data...

I think it was Gregory Marler who said that what he'd really like to see in the 
front page is a wireframe view, showing everything at every zoom level but very 
minimally styled, points, lines. I think that would look great.

Tim


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Re: [OSM-talk] Looking for well mapped rural area and well mapped town/city

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Mateusz,

Sorry for the incomplete message, using Outlook web client at work and it has 
some completely eccentric shortcuts, like Control-V sending a message rather 
than doing a paste... what a stupid idea.

Anyway the area I was trying to send you was

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/51.0506/-0.7229

Nick


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From: Mateusz Konieczny 
Sent: 20 July 2015 11:04
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] Looking for well mapped rural area and well mapped  
town/city

I am looking for well mapped rural area. I located some places but all
are either missing major features (like part of landuse) or quality of
mapping (especially landuses) is poor.

I am interested in places mapped better than my current test locations

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/49.87433/16.77617 - Czech republic

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/55.4102/13.4749 - area between Malmo and 
Ystad

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/49.15249/21.07066 - Slovakia

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/49.87460/16.77673 - Czech republic

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.93190/7.08075 - Netherlands

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/53.2134/-1.7983 - rural area where 
highway=footway are important (UK)

Also, is anybody aware about well mapped town/city with surroundings?
I would expect mapped landuses and buildings, with
highway=residential/unclassified/track used correctly.

I am looking for town/city without highway=unclassified used for all
roads in town, without highway=residential linking villages, without
track used instead of surface=unpaved and without roads linking
settlements turning into highway=residential within villages/towns
(also, without other less typical significant mistakes in road tagging).

These test locations are used during developing of road style for
Default map style (to test various ideas in multiple varied locations -
as changes improve situation for some places and make it worse in
other).

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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing Applications

[Nick Whitelegg]

Depends what you're after really. I'm impressed by GraphHopper's job in 
suggesting a foot route between Southampton and the village I spent my teenage 
years, 60km away - it actually suggests a route very close to the one I would 
have chosen myself. A bit more roads than ideal, but it is impressive.



From: Janko Mihelic 
Sent: 17 June 2015 10:00
To: Hans De Kryger; OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Routing Applications


If you ask me, they are all in their infancy. Non of these routing services 
even route right. In a turn restriction the "via" role can be a way. Neither 
OSRM, ORS or GraphHopper knows how to restrict that, and that's IMHO one of the 
crucial parts of a routing engine.

When one of them starts routing right, than we can talk about picking a winner 
service. Right now only MapQuest knows how to route.

Janko

sri, 17. lip 2015. 05:34 Hans De Kryger 
mailto:hans.dekryge...@gmail.com>> je napisao:
Why do OSRM & OpenRoutingService compete against each other instead of joining 
resources and combining efforts to make the best routing service out there? Am 
i missing something? I know it's nice to have different services for different 
uses but this doesn't seem like a good use of resources at all. I may be the 
only one with this opinion, but this has bug me for awhile.

Regards,
Hans

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13

*Sorry for any misspellings*
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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM-US: directions please

[Nick Whitelegg]

Well I visited New York in 2004 and then the choice was either a shuttle bus 
(which drops you off somewhere near Grand Central) or the monorail to an "A 
train" subway station which would take you into Manhattan.

Once you're in Manhattan I guess you can just use an OSM map ;-)

Obviously things might have changed now...

Nick


From: Andy Mabbett 
Sent: 04 June 2015 16:38
To: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] SOTM-US: directions please

Ironic, given our subject of interest...

I've searched online, but found no directions from JFK to the New
Shool's 13th Street Residence, nor walking directions from there to
the UN building.

Could someone oblige, please?

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Nick Whitelegg]

Exactly. Us Western Europeans would find Romanised versions of names useful 
when travelling out of Western Europe (to give a real example: I'm visiting 
Greece this summer, and while I'm just about at the stage where I think I can 
decode the Greek alphabet, Romanised versions are definitely helpful), and the 
converse should also be true.

You don't even need on the ground evidence. You just need someone with 
knowledge of Cyrillic and Roman alphabets to be able to transliterate 
Abergavenny into the Cyrillic, presumably.

Nick


From: Andrew Hain 
Sent: 29 May 2015 07:07
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

Dave Corley  gmail.com> writes:

> Lastly, and I think this is important point. To quote the wiki header
". the project that creates and distributes free geographic data for the
world." Either this is a database of worldwide geodata or its not. There's
no half-way in that statement. Either all cultures, languages, countries,
people and the variety these elements bring in terms of tagging, is accepted
on a universal basis or its not.

Thank you Dave. As a British mapper I am ashamed that some people want to
make the map of my country less useful, and not only to Russian speakers a
long way away.

--
Andrew
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Re: [OSM-talk] Map Roulette

[Nick Hocking]

Mike wrote

 "I am trying to use Map Roulette for the Fix Waterway Direction challenge.
It seems that after processing a couple of issues, it fails to advance to
the next issue.  I am using Chrome and editing in JOSM."


Hi MIke,

I believe that it is a problem with cache control and a workaround is to
turn off caching when using Map Roulette.

I had just this problem and wireshark analysis suggested to me that it may
be an incompatibility between JSON and the browser in the way they
interpret some of the newer cache control protocols. This was some time ago
and I have forgotten the details.  I did ask various people but no one,
including Microsoft seemed too keen to investigate.

One of these days I'll investigate further and find out who is
misinterpreting (or misusing) the cache control. I just used the workaround
till I had finished that Maproulette challenge.

For me I only had the problem with IE but Firefox worked ok. Not sure what
the situation is now.

Cheers
Nick
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[OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

[Nick Whitelegg]

??OK thanks. Sorry don't keep track of the help site but will have a look at 
that.


Thanks,

Nick


From: Marc Gemis 
Sent: 18 February 2015 12:06
To: Nick Whitelegg
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

Nick,

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Nick Whitelegg 
mailto:nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk>> wrote:
I've tried some foot routing out and it appears that someone has done a mass 
addition of access=private to large numbers of ROWs in Hampshire.

This issue was raised a few days ago on the help website: 
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/41053/prow-tagging-england-wales (at 
least I think you are talking about the same thing)

regards

m
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

[Nick Whitelegg]

Ah right. I wasn't saying GraphHopper's wrong BTW... I was more questioning the 
wisdom of adding "access=private" to rights of way. But that's probably another 
discussion for the talk-gb list...

Nick


From: SomeoneElse 
Sent: 18 February 2015 11:51
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

On 18/02/2015 11:38, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> I've tried some foot routing out and it appears that someone has done a mass 
> addition of access=private to large numbers of ROWs in Hampshire.
>
> See
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=graphhopper_foot&route=50.96550%2C-1.17800%3B50.96090%2C-1.18780#map=17/50.96265/-1.18302
>
See also

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/41053/prow-tagging-england-wales

In this case graphhopper's "correct", because
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4453997 does not have "foot=yes" on it,
but instead "access:foot=yes".  It used to have foot=designated on it
until 3 years ago.

Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

[Nick Whitelegg]

Nice to have routing on the main site, but

This has revealed quite a big nasty that has happened in Hampshire recently!

I've tried some foot routing out and it appears that someone has done a mass 
addition of access=private to large numbers of ROWs in Hampshire.

See

http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=graphhopper_foot&route=50.96550%2C-1.17800%3B50.96090%2C-1.18780#map=17/50.96265/-1.18302

for instance

It should be routing you along the footpath, instead it routes along the road.

Not sure who's done this but will investigate later - I sincerely hope it was a 
mistake!!!

Nick


From: si...@mungewell.org 
Sent: 17 February 2015 22:45
To: christian.pietz...@googlemail.com
Cc: Talk Openstreetmap
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

> OSRM and other routers won't use the highway you want it to use because
> its
> under construction in the OSM data (
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/27593150#map=13/50.4550/-113.8127&layers=Q).

Ahh, that would probably do it. I have removed 'construction=trunk' and
'motor_vehicle=no' tags as they are incorrect.

Will check back in a few days to see if it fixed the routing problem.

> Most often it's not  router but a data problem.

Absolutely... the data is to blame!

The point I was making is that routing often highlights that there is an
issue, maybe a quick link to add a note (or something) that local/expert
mappers could validate would be of benefit.

Cheers,
Simon
(who really should pay more TLC to mapping in his area)


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Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map

[Nick Whitelegg]

One concern I have as a user of, primarily, road path and POI data, is the 
growing size of the planet file that addressing data would cause.

If we are to focus on addresses more, then I think we do need to produce planet 
extracts with just the basic street and POI data, so that those of us who are 
primarily interested in that data and do not have powerful servers can get hold 
of that data easily.

Nick

-RB  wrote: -
To: Jason Remillard 
From: RB 
Date: 31/10/2014 08:38AM
Cc: Jukka Rahkonen , OSM Talk 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map

I second that.

While it is true that OSM is definitely more that an addressable map, addresses 
are, indeed, very helpful and even necessary. For various reason, they 
constitute a weakness in the current project growth and emphasizing the need to 
survey them / negotiate import with relevant authorities is a good thing.



On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 2:24 AM, Jason Remillard  
wrote:
Hi,

The OpenAddress project is great, but we still need addresses in OSM.
It would make sense to write OSM importing (and updating) software
that is assumes OpenAddress as an input, rather than the raw files
released by official GIS committees. By standardizing on the output of
the OpenAddress project, most of the remaining work needed for an OSM
address import is the same, therefor we have a chance of getting good
OSM import software written and a standardized processes that can be
optimized.

Thought I have never seen this idea expressed on the OSM lists, I
assume this is part of the long term vision for the OpenAddress
project. If a commercial OSM user (or the board) wants to encourage
getting addresses into OSM at a large scale, this would be the way to
go.

Jason

On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:27 PM, David Fawcett  wrote:
> Agreed.  Jukka points to ideas that could enhance OpenAddresses, There is
> some good momentum behind OA already, let's get together and improve that
> project.
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jukka Rahkonen
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really
>>> be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing
>>> addresses from this master address database into OSM later.
>>
>>
>> Such a thing already exists! :) I would love to have you contribute to
>> OpenAddresses: http://openaddresses.io/
>>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap ten years on, and why it's time for a fresh slate

[Nick Whitelegg]

>I can recite a few of them. We have very little mobile presence, even 
>though smartphones are ideal surveying devices; a 5% intervention here 
>would bring so many more people to our 95%.

Interesting points. I'd hope most of us, though, remain idealistic beyond our 
20s and don't turn into some sort of technophobic Farage-loving bore. ;-)

Regarding your point here, I've always wondered (and I think I mentioned this 
some time ago) whether there would be room for an "easy" footpaths editor 
(sorry to go on about footpaths but it's my "pet" OSM thing). The user simply 
records their GPS trace on their phone via a custom app, and selects, via a 
simple dropdown etc, the current right-of-way type (footpath, bridleway etc). 
The trace is simplified (e.g. Douglas-Peucker) and converted directly to an OSM 
file (I think this is what I did way back with osmeditor... anyone remember 
that?) 

When back home the data is uploaded. This could be done in a number of ways 
e.g. OSM data could be downloaded and then some sort of algorithm applied to 
detect which part of the trace is new. Those segments which are new are then 
joined - initially automatically but with option to change - to existing data 
and then uploaded to the server. Alternatively, one could "throw" some OSM data 
at the server and have the server figure out which parts are new and which are 
not - though that would of course involve an extension to the API.

Is this something that could be of interest? (cc to talk-gb as it's slightly 
UK-centric but could be used elsewhere potentially)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)

[Nick Whitelegg]

I'd go along with this to some extent; I certainly don't think OSM should be 
"primarily" about addressing as Steve's email appears to indicate.
It should be about whatever we as mappers want it to be. If addressing's your 
thing, then fine, do it, but if it isn't, that's fine also.

I don't think we should be singling out one "mission" at all - other than to 
gather free geodata. Instead, we as mappers should be contributing whatever 
personally turns us on, so to speak.
There are enough people with enough diverse interests that we end up with a map 
showing a wide range of things.

There are still a good number of things besides addressing that are missing. 
Plenty of footpaths even here in the UK are still missing, for instance - to 
mention my own personal area of interest.

By focusing on one aim you're going to potentially turn people off whose 
mapping interests lie elsewhere.

Nick



-Frederik Ramm  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: Frederik Ramm 
Date: 23/10/2014 08:44AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The 
world’s best addressable map)

Hi,

On 10/23/2014 08:57 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
> Wouldn't it be great that we would have import tools that can be used by
> many groups ? 

As far as addresses are concerned, there's "OpenAddresses" (the US
version, not the older Swiss project) that collects openly licensed
address data and to my knowledge they're also looking into how that data
can then be combined with OSM for geocoding, without actually importing
it in OSM.

To my mind that's an excellent solution; you can dump address data into
the pool and have it processed without interfering with the manually
surveyed data that is in OSM. And users can be given the choice of using
only the manually surveyed data, or only the government data, or a
mixture of both.

OSM is not a melting pot for the world's open data and while there is a
place for imports, every import will have to be carefully thought about
and evaluated. Streamlining that process is not necessarily in the best
interest of OpenStreetMap.

Frankly, I don't get all the brouhaha about addresses. Yes, geocoding is
commercially interesting, but is it interesting for us as a project? Are
the mappers in OSM doing what they do because they always wanted to have
a house-level free geocoder? I very much doubt that. Technology wise, I
find it almost insulting to reduce OSM to a geocoding database and
measure OSM in how many addresses it has. There's so much more to the
data we collect than merely placing a latitude and longitude against an
address.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Field Papers web app source code hosted at GitHub currently subject to DMCA takedown and not accessible

[Nick Whitelegg]

I have to admit: I don't know what FieldPapers is - but this seems a very 
heavy-handed action.
What's wrong with the complainant just asking the font is removed from the 
source code repository? Why remove the whole source code?

-"Joseph R. Justice"  wrote: -
To: OSM Talk ML , OSM Talk-US List 

From: "Joseph R. Justice" 
Date: 29/08/2014 03:10AM
Cc: Stamen Design 
Subject: [OSM-talk] Field Papers web app source code hosted at GitHub currently 
subject to DMCA takedown and not accessible

[Intentionally posted to both talk@ and talk-us@.  -- J]

I just now happened to try to access my personal fork of the repository for the 
source code for the Field Papers (http://fieldpapers.org/) web app site (said 
repository of source code can usually be found at 
https://github.com/stamen/fieldpapers), only to find that the fork was 
currently not accessible due to a DMCA takedown, apparently related to the 
presence of font data originally created by Monotype Corporation and/or related 
companies and organizations.  

Because of this DMCA takedown, the master repository of the source for Field 
Papers, my personal fork of it, and the repository for the source of the 
software Field Papers was derived from are all currently inaccessible at 
GitHub.  (Many other things unrelated to Field Papers or OSM in general are 
also being affected by this.)

Information about the DMCA takedown and what is affected by it, and what the 
takedown is complaining about, can be found at 
https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2014-08-27-Monotype-Imaging.md .

Does Stamen Design (as the organization responsible for creating and presumably 
maintaining the Field Papers web app at http://fieldpapers.org/ and the 
software behind the web app) know about this yet?  Are they doing something 
about it?  I wouldn't be surprised if the DMCA takedown is extended to the web 
app site itself at some point, if something isn't done about this.

I have taken the liberty of CCing Stamen Design at i...@stamen.com with this 
letter, to make sure they are aware of what's going on (especially if they are 
not yet aware of it).

Thank you for giving me a moment of your time.  I hope you find this of some 
use, interest.  I look forward to learning more about this situation as it 
develops and is (hopefully) resolved in a desirable fashion in the near future.

Joseph



PS: I still cannot access my own attempt at an account at the Field Papers web 
app site, but that's not relevant to the issue here.  If I ever get off my lazy 
butt and write some patches to their code for the site to fix this sort of 
thing (which is why I'd created a fork in the first place), then I'd be able to 
get at my account w/o needing them to do something.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Early History of OSM

[Nick Whitelegg]

Another thing about the 2006 map is that many of the ways that definitely were 
there then.

e.g.

http://osmz.ru/osm2006.html#14/51.0523/-0.7374

This is the Fernhurst area, West Sussex. There should be a primary road north 
to south and many more footpaths

Primary and secondary roads seem to be particularly prone to being missing. I 
think they were always highway=primary so not sure why that is.

Also a number of footpaths are missing. Is this perhaps because they are now 
highway=path and the 2006 map is being rendered with a 2006 stylesheet so they 
don't show up?

Nick
-Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote: -
To: Ilya Zverev 
From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Date: 25/08/2014 03:22PM
Cc: "talk@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Early History of OSM


> Il giorno 25/ago/2014, alle ore 12:55, Ilya Zverev  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> Thanks, here is the map for August 2006: 
> http://osmz.ru/osm2006.html#6/53.462/5.08

interesting, thanks for posting this. I have two remarks why it seems 
missleading for the less informed:
- the coastline is more recent than 2006
- you have kept the external data from natural earth (builtup areas for midzoom)

So actually in 2006 there was even less map than it appears ;-)

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] online survey about the OSM community

[Nick Whitelegg]

I have to admit I filled the thing in - I assumed the middle questions were 
perhaps psychology related (psychology of OSM users, etc).
It never asks for name, email address, phone, place of work etc, town etc. - 
just age.

Didn't really strike me as phishing.

What do people think about this - I'll delete my cookies etc "just in case" it 
is phishing and run an antivirus scan but does anyone recommend doing anything 
else?

Thanks,
Nick

-"Jaakko Helleranta.com"  wrote: -
To: Clifford Snow 
From: "Jaakko Helleranta.com" 
Date: 19/08/2014 09:38PM
Cc: Talk Openstreetmap , cdimo...@mail.sdsu.edu
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] online survey about the OSM community

I too found the questions in the middle of the survey a bit odd. .. To the 
extent that I needed to re-read the email about the study + the Research page 
of the wiki to evaluate if this was a valid research of just an odd phishing 
attempt. And while I ended up trusting that this is a legit request I am 
copying this to cdimo...@mail.sdsu.edu (try to) ensure that this is actually 
the case.

My last question (=feedback request) included thoughts that when researching 
OSM it would be a good idea to include the research plan (and I'd add that a 
link to some actual web page where hopefully there is a notion about the 
research in question). Specifically it would be highly appreciated if possible 
attachments e.g. to financing entities (related business(es) I would assume 
primarily) could be listed. .. Or it would be noted that such information can 
not be released.
Additionally it would be great if the research would be open in nature 
including at least some level of openness in the data (responses). That is, 
more than the traditional openness of the analysis.

This said, I hope I wasn't fooled into giving out information about myself that 
is actually easily identifiable. .. And if I was fooled than the lesson is on 
me.

If -- as I assume (and hope) -- this is a valid research then I look forward to 
reading the results. And hopefully seeing some of the collected data openly 
available.

Should we have a Code of Ethics for researching the OSM community?

-Jaakko

--
jaa...@helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +505-8845-3391 (Nicaragua) 
* Voice(mail) / SMS / What's app: +1-202-730-9778 * http://about.me/jaakkoh

On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Clifford Snow  wrote:
I had the same issue. It stopped being about OSM. Which made me suspect that 
his intent was other than what was announced.

I'd be willing to help the OP if he was agreeable to suggestions.

Clifford

Typos by tablrt

On Aug 19, 2014 11:15 AM, "Lester Caine"  wrote:
On 19/08/14 17:47, OSMR wrote:
> Thank you in advance for your potential participation and apologies for
> the lengthy message in case you are not interested.

I gave up before I got half way - just seems like a load of useless
crap? Anybody actually managed the whole thing?

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] UK is turning blue?

[Nick Whitelegg]

The endless rain of 2014 might though ;-)

(sorry for the flippant comment)

-SomeoneElse  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: SomeoneElse 
Date: 17/08/2014 09:41PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] UK is turning blue?

On 17/08/2014 20:34, Ruben Maes wrote:
> It's doing it again – the UK is going blue once more!
>
> Does anyone know what the problem is? Last time, was it a broken
> coastline in the end?

The "Coastline" view in OSMI http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/ suggests a 
self-intersection problem roughly here:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=potlatch2#map=20/56.68761/-6.09413

Not sure if a self-intersection would cause this flooding though...

Cheers,

Andy


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[OSM-talk] Using osmdroid for an Android university course

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,

(not sure if this belongs in talk or dev)

Next year I am running a university course on Android development.

I am planning to include a section on location-aware apps and mapping, and 
naturally I want to use OSM. ;-)

Mapsforge is one option, however IMV the new 0.4 API has a little too much 
complexity for what will be complete newcomers to Android development (they 
have Java experience though).

So I'd like to use osmdroid, however I'm aware that apps that use raster tile 
sources can place a strain on tileservers.

It looks like osmdroid will now talk to the MapQuest tileservers though.

Will it be acceptable - particularly if I use MapQuest - to use osmdroid for 
this course? There will be 20 students max.

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Re: [OSM-talk] UK is turning blue?

[Nick Whitelegg]

Must be becoming a political map (Europe rather than US colour scheme).

;-)

-Michael Kugelmann  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: Michael Kugelmann 
Date: 18/06/2014 12:15AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] UK is turning blue?

Am 18.06.2014 00:41, schrieb Colin Smale:
>
> why the UK is turning blue on openstreetmap.org?
>
Flood due to massive rain? Heavy tide?    ;-)

Maybe the coastline is broken (or was changed) or something like that...


Cheers,
Michael.


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[OSM-talk] Galaxy SIII GPS receiver issues, and alternatives

[Nick Whitelegg]

Has anyone encountered any problems with the GPS on the Galaxy SIII or similar 
models starting to malfunction after a while?

Mine is around 18 months old and since around Easter its ability to connect to 
the satellites seems to have become very weak, typically only picking up 7-10 
satellites (rather than 16 or so) and if the sky is even the slightest bit 
obscured (e.g. valley between small hills), it fails to pick up any at all.
Only on the top of hills with a good all round view does it pick up more than 
10 satellites.

It's basically become very difficult to use, luckily I have a tablet as well 
which is obviously less easy to walk round with but can just about manage.

Has anyone had success connecting external micro USB or Bluetooth GPS devices 
to Android phones?

Thanks,
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for Developers Presentation

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Kate,

I gave this talk at a British Computer Society meeting last year:

http://www.free-map.org.uk/~nick/OSM_0313.odp

Not hugely in-depth but might be of some use.

Nick

-Kate Chapman  wrote: -
To: osm 
From: Kate Chapman 
Date: 21/02/2014 08:00AM
Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM for Developers Presentation

Hi All,

I'm giving a talk this weekend at the Jakarta Python meet-up. I was
wondering if anyone has a good "Intro to OSM for Developers" talk. I'm
putting one together myself, but I'm looking to see what things others
cover. Basically I want to give an overview of resources for
developers, this isn't really a workshop just a 20 minute
presentation.

Thanks,

-Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Summer of Code 2014

[Nick Whitelegg]

As in previous years, I think some further work on kothic-js would be good.
Client side rendering considerably reduces server overheads for setting up your 
own mapping website, so ideas such as making it leaflet 0.7 compatible (appears 
to only work with 0.5.x or below atm), or client side caching (indexeddb etc) 
would be good. The latter would also allow interactivity to be added to the 
maps.

I'll put it on the wiki at some point. I don't know the kothic codebase in 
enough detail and also time is tight for me so not sure if I'd be able to 
mentor it, but as an idea I think it's good.

Nick

-Rob Nickerson  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: Rob Nickerson 
Date: 11/02/2014 09:35PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Summer of Code 2014

Hi All,

I tried to send the following idea to the "imports" mailing list the other day, 
but turns out I wasn't registered to post there. I guess it fits well with 
Summer of Code so I will add it to the wiki, but not being a developer I can't 
mentor anyone. 
 


 
So my question is: How do we improve our import work flows so that it is easier 
to keep imported or merged data up to date?

Some ideas:

1. Tools to compare OSM data against the available external data set. One 
recent blog post on this by SK53
  
http://sk53-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/looking-for-footpaths-in-hickling-notts.html

2.  We need to be asking for not just full datasets but also regular  
change-sets. If we cannot get a change-set from the data supplier then  we need 
to be keeping a copy of any imported data and creating  comparison tools 
between the original imported data and the updated data  from that 
government/organisation.
 
3. More data conflation tools. Not all data can be imported in  bulk. We need 
to look at developing more tools to allow for piecemeal  imports from the local 
community. For example the Android app Vespucci *could* be extended/forked to 
allow the following work flow:
 
3a. A new "import" dataset is added to a holding database.
3b. On the ground mappers can can then view this database on the ground using 
Vespucci on their tablet/phone
3c.  For each element they mark it as "verified" or "incorrect", and if  
necessary change the tags or geometry using the tools already built into  
Vespucci. At this stage Vespucci has not shown any other OSM data, just  the 
holding database layer. This makes it easier to use in areas of  high data 
density.
 3d. If the data is just nodes then Vespucci searches for potential  matches in 
the OSM data. Is one is found the user is asked how to merge  the two. If not 
found then the node is imported into OSM.
3e.  For ways the user can either work with Vespucci to merge/import the  data, 
or they can log in when back home using JOSM or ID and work with  these editing 
tools to merge the verified data from the holding  database.
 
Any other ideas?

RobJN
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Hobbyist OSM Data Server?

[Nick Whitelegg]

>You should keep in mind the dev server (errol), both for running 
>whatever you want to and when planning additional resources if you need 
>them. You can find information on the dev server at 
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_the_dev_server.

Hello Paul,

If I could use the dev server for this, it would be extremely useful, thanks. I 
thought current policy was that the dev server was only for hacking on the 
actual OSM main code.
However, what I'd like to offer (a vector tile server) could be potentially 
useful to many OSM-related projects, and not just my own, so I'm guessing it 
might be OK to use it for this purpose.

I do actually have an account on dev (or at least I did, 3 or 4 years ago; user 
nick) - I'll try and find the password (which I've completely forgotten ;-) )
I presume people with dev accounts circa 2008/9 or so still have them?

Thanks,
Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] Hobbyist OSM Data Server?

[Nick Whitelegg]

>If you have a clear picture of what tool you want to run and what it needs,
>and you don't have a local community with servers to share, maybe you can
>come to us and we'll see if that can be possible ?
>http://listes.openstreetmap.fr/wws/info/tech

That would be really great, thanks, though someone on the GB list might be able 
to offer hardware. I will email you again if that is not the case.

In terms of my own requirements, I need a PostGIS database generated by 
osm2pgsql. I also need to be able to deploy my own web services (PHP based) 
which serve that data in Google XYZ tiles or by bounding box in a variety of 
projections, and in GeoJSON or custom XML formats.

Thanks,
Nick

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[OSM-talk] Hobbyist OSM Data Server?

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,

This idea was suggested by another attendee at SOTM this year but I think it 
would definitely be a good idea from my own experiences.

To my mind, the biggest barrier to hobbyist, not-for-profit developers wishing 
to set up OSM-related web projects (apart from time, of course) is, and always 
has been since the early days of OSM, the cost of running a server to handle 
large amounts of data. With increased volumes of data it is even more the case 
now. It is certainly the biggest limitation on my own site Freemap and its 
associated projects, such as the augmented reality project Hikar.For around £25 
a month I get quite a decent server but even still, I am constrained to only 
offering data for selected areas of the UK (much of England away from the urban 
areas, and all of Wales).

I would imagine there are lots of other people in a similar situation, who 
would like to offer not for profit projects but are constrained by the costs of 
hosting.

So I'm wondering whether we could, if enough people raise contributions, have 
an OSM "read only, hobbyist" server which could be used to host not-for-profit, 
open source (only) projects. it could be either global or just for the UK (or 
any other individual country). It could contain a copy of the OSM PostGIS 
database then developers could be free to host server side code which delivers 
that data in whatever format fits their own needs (GeoJSON, some binary vector 
format, or anything else).

Obviously such a thing would cost but I'm wondering whether the funds could be 
raised? At the moment, assuming my work circumstances change, I could probably 
contribute £50 towards buying it in the first place (possibly £100 if it was a 
definite "goer") plus £10/month running costs. Seeing as I don't get any income 
it's unlikely I could go above these values. What do people think?

Thanks,
Nick
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[OSM-talk] New version of OpenTrailView (streetview for footpaths) using Photo Spheres

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,

You may remember a talk I gave in SOTM Girona in 2010 on the "OpenTrailView" 
project. The idea of this project was to produce something similar to Google 
Street View but for off road routes such as footpaths. However, the procedure 
to contribute was long-winded, involving taking panoramic shots, stitching them 
together manually using third-party software, using GPS traces and timestamps 
to position the photos, and manually uploading them.

However as you probably know, around a year ago Google added "Photo Spheres" to 
the Android camera, which allows you to easily take an all-round spherical 
panorama on an Android phone. This is  available by default on Nexus devices 
but can be downloaded as a separate download on other Android 4.x devices (see 
link below). Consequently this got me interested in resurrecting OpenTrailView.

So the new version of OpenTrailView is now available at 
http://www.opentrailview.org. Currently you can upload and view photo spheres - 
you can see a few close to the default location. The aim is to use underlying 
OpenStreetMap data to link the photo spheres together to produce virtual tours 
of the countryside, kind-of like Street View but with the photo spheres more 
widely spaced.

More details, including some info on current limitations and issues, at 

http://www.opentrailview.org/about.html

 The photo spheres are currently rather slow loading (take a few seconds to 
load). kennydude's photosphere javascript library has been used to embed the 
photo spheres.

Also see the wiki page: 

wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenTrailView

 which contains information on how you can set up your own OpenTrailView server.
Due to server capacity constraints, the underlying OSM data only covers part of 
the UK, so when the functionality to link the photospheres is implemented, it 
will only work for those parts of the UK. So if you're interested in seeing 
this in your own country, you might want to set up your own copy of the server. 
This basically involves setting up a postgis database and then installing a 
local copy of the Freemap code (including opentrailview) on your own machine.


(Posted to talk-gb as well as talk, as I have underlying OSM data for much of 
the UK on my server, so the virtual tours are likely to be working in parts of 
the UK before anywhere else)

Nick
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[OSM-talk] OsmAnd: downloading large amounts of data?

[Nick Whitelegg]

Not sure if anyone else has had this problem.

I recently updated OsmAnd (or the auto update process on my phone did) - I was 
using the latest version yesterday afternoon to identify some missing paths in 
OSM, yet during an hour of use OsmAnd seemed to download 100 MB of data. 
Result, usage limit reached on phone - ouch!

It has not done this before; anyone else seen this behaviour? Presumably some 
setting has changed?

Thanks,
Nick
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Re: [OSM-talk] Timezones (was: Deleting data)

[Nick Whitelegg]

I guess I see admin boundaries as something typically shown on rendered maps so 
it makes sense having them in there to me.

To be honest I don't have a particularly strong view about time zones per se, 
but just expressing caution at getting into a theoretical situation where the 
database is so cluttered with all manner of stuff that those of us that just 
want to work with map data have a harder time extracting the data we want.

Nick

-Colin Smale  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: Colin Smale 
Date: 21/10/2013 10:25AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Timezones (was:  Deleting data)

  Nick, this can be done for admin boundaries as well. Would you advocate 
removing them from OSM as well? The change to the size of the planet file if 
timezones are included is absolutely microscopic in the big scheme of things. 
There are clearly many shades of grey. It's a question of where to draw the 
line (as it were). Can this be expressed objectively?
 It feels rather weird that some people are now advocating keeping certain 
things out of OSM. The traditional consensus is that anyone can put anything in 
OSM and that any attempt to limit people's creativity is met with much 
scepticism. In the continuum between the puritans and the pragmatists there's 
plenty of room for everyone.
 I for one think that data in OSM should be above all usable. Whether to have 
timezones in OSM is analogous to database normalisation. If taken to extremes, 
you can win a theoretical point while at the same time causing significant 
performance problems and extra complexity for the users of the data.
 Colin
 
  On 2013-10-21 10:55, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
 
I'd go the other way and abolish Winter Time. ;-)
No DST = dark summer evenings. Not nice!

Going on topic, not sure if something like time zones belongs in OSM. Would it 
not be better to use a more specialised web service to look up time zones for a 
given lat/lon? I'd prefer to minimise overloading OSM with things which are not 
"on the ground" data. For one thing, it means bigger planet files and more 
demands on software to extract the data you want.

Nick

-moltonel 3x Combo  wrote: - 
 

 Actually, I always wondered why timezones were kept out of OSM. I know DST 
complicates tagging (it'll be the first thing I abolish when I become World 
Dictator), ...
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Timezones (was: Deleting data)

[Nick Whitelegg]

I'd go the other way and abolish Winter Time. ;-)
No DST = dark summer evenings. Not nice!

Going on topic, not sure if something like time zones belongs in OSM. Would it 
not be better to use a more specialised web service to look up time zones for a 
given lat/lon? I'd prefer to minimise overloading OSM with things which are not 
"on the ground" data. For one thing, it means bigger planet files and more 
demands on software to extract the data you want.

Nick

-moltonel 3x Combo  wrote: -

Actually, I always wondered why timezones were kept out of OSM. I know DST 
complicates tagging (it'll be the first thing I abolish when I become World 
Dictator), ...

  
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[OSM-talk] Hikar (augmented reality for walkers) - running internationally

[Nick Whitelegg]

As some of you know I gave a talk on Hikar - an augmented reality app which 
overlays OSM ways on the phone's camera feed with the intention of being used 
as a navigation helper for hikers/walkers.

At present it only works in certain parts of the UK because it relies upon my 
Freemap server which only covers certain parts of the UK.
However, one or two people expressed an interest at SOTM to run it in other 
countries.

The app is now, I think, in a state where it could potentially run 
internationally, as it now can work with SRTM data as well as OS height data, 
and the display projection can be chosen (anything supported by Java proj.4). 
However obviously as I haven't been abroad since SOTM, this is untested.

So I have put together a wiki page explaining how it should theoretically be 
possible to get it up and running internationally. The main issue is you need 
to set up your own instance of the Freemap server.

See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hikar. This also includes some info on 
the current state of the app.

Nick
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

[Nick Whitelegg]

+1. Amen to that ;-)

Nick

-Toby Murray  wrote: -
From: Toby Murray 
Date: 24/05/2013 04:07PM
Cc: OSM Talk 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Dave F.  wrote:
   
 
On 24/05/2013 12:15, Nick Whitelegg   wrote:
  
 I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of 
its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate 
the vast amount of hard work that has gone into producing the editor. 
If you don't like it, complain about it to your friends in private, 
change the code, but do not slag it off on a public mailing list!
  
 You think the developers are above criticism? A public forum is 
*exactly* where they should be aired. The creators came here & said "look 
what we've made, isn't it fantastic" & some of us have pointed out that, 
actually, no it isn't that good. For them to say "OK, we've made a mistake, 
why don't you fix it?" is arrogant. Developers should not be put on 
pedestals.
 
 As has been pointed out there's a few reasons why it not good enough 
to be the default editor. Another being it's lack of relation information 
which will lead to them being split/deleted. There needs to be, at least, 
some kind of warning note that a selected way contains a relation.
 The panning/background refresh speed has improved slightly in Firefox, 
but not sure if that's Id's or FF's doing. 
 
 I think it needs pointing out, yet again, that we are all volunteers, 
all putting in time & effort for the good of the project.
 

There is a difference between constructive criticism and "This is the worst 
thing ever!" which is both unhelpful and objectively false.

 
Toby 
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

[Nick Whitelegg]

To reply to both yours and Dave F's post in one, as I've got the same comment:

*Constructive* criticism is *absolutely fine*. No problem whatsoever to 
politely point out flaws and areas for improvement.

 I have issues, I am afraid, with disrespectful terms in criticism, and I've 
said this before. Terms like "a joke" IMO, I'm afraid, come across to me as 
rude. Polite and constructive criticism ("I believe that iD has a few flaws 
where the usability could be improved: these are (list)" is perfectly fine.

I just believe more respect is due to open-source developers, as a general 
point. People like the iD developers and others work hard in their own time, 
for no pay. I'm just asking for politeness, that's all. Not a veto of criticism.

Nick

-"John F. Eldredge"  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: "John F. Eldredge" 
Date: 24/05/2013 02:34PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

   
On 05/24/2013 06:15 AM, Nick Whitelegg   wrote:
  
 I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of 
its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate 
the vast amount of hard work that has gone into producing the editor. 
If you don't like it, complain about it to your friends in private, 
change the code, but do not slag it off on a public mailing list!
 
 Nick
 
 -razor74wrote: -   
  
   
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 From: razor74 
 Date: 24/05/2013 09:36AM
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
 
 
The worst editor ewer. With this will result many damages   
  and
 incompatibilities. From newbies ofcourse. Potlatch is  
   the best blend for
 advanced users and for new ones with alot of info and  
   very friendly
 interface. This is a joke. Take it down before destroyed   
  the existent maps
 with alot of hard work on them!
 
 
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760219.html
 Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at   
  Nabble.com.
 
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  So, you feel that non-programmers, who have justified reasons to 
complain about the design, such as the silent removal of highway tags, 
should not be able to let their opinion of the bad design be made known?
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

[Nick Whitelegg]

I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of its developers: 
negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate the vast amount of hard 
work that has gone into producing the editor. If you don't like it, complain 
about it to your friends in private, change the code, but do not slag it off on 
a public mailing list!

Nick

-razor74  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: razor74 
Date: 24/05/2013 09:36AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

The worst editor ewer. With this will result many damages and
incompatibilities. From newbies ofcourse. Potlatch is the best blend for
advanced users and for new ones with alot of info and very friendly
interface. This is a joke. Take it down before destroyed the existent maps
with alot of hard work on them!



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760219.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[OSM-talk] Bicentennial National Trail in Australia

[Nick Hocking]

Hi

The other day I was riding the push bike along some trails and got talking
to some horse riders.

It turns out the Lady (Jenny) is the ACT coordinator for (and also the
secretary of) the Bicentennial National Trail Ltd. Naturally I dropped the
term Openstreetmap and it appears that they are very interested to hear
about OSM and their mapping guy would like to talk to us about what they
could do with OSM.

Apparently they are doing quite a bit of remapping in Queensland, due to
the floods, so I see BNT and OSM being very usefull to each other. I told
Jenny that one of our Canberra mappers (John) had done quite a bit of work
on the BNT in the ACT and they would love to talk to you about it, if you'd
be agreeable to that.
They also need to have topographical maps for their trail guides but I'm
not sure whether OSM has that yet for Australia. It turns out that the
trail I was riding on is part of the BNT but is not yet mapped as such in
OSM, so I'll have to start surveying the southern part of the ACT's bit of
the BNT when time permits.

Therefore, my question is,  who is the best OSM person to advise BNT of the
various technical details of using OSM map data.
Nick
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm.org POI display: next beta

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi, are these links alright?

They seem to link to gmx.net and redirect to the given URL meaning I get a 404.

Has your mail client done something strange with the URLs?

Thanks,
Nick

-"Roland Olbricht"  wrote: -
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
From: "Roland Olbricht" 
Date: 16/03/2013 12:26PM
Subject: [OSM-talk] osm.org POI display: next beta

Dear all,

the beta for a popup POI display has got its first round of improvements. See
http://overpass.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/
for the live demo.

The popup should now be faster: The data is loaded in several chunks,
and the first chunk should arrive after at most 300ms.

A lot of work has gone to properly handle left clicks vs. double clicks.
As this works around some design limitations in Leaflet, I would be
happy about situations where this workaround still goes wrong to refine it.

Comments are welcome here or on
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI_display

The found objects now get a classification. This is currently text,
icons should be used in the long run. This is also where I need your
help: Categories may still be imprecise, so I'm grateful for examples
where objects need another classification. The classification is
currently done in function "classifyElement(element)" in
https://github.com/drolbr/openstreetmap-website/blob/master/app/assets/javascripts/popuplayer.js

Comments are welcome as pull requests or again here or on
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI_display

Cheers,

Roland

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Re: [OSM-talk] "China's maps to be closely monitored for more accuracy"

[Nick Hocking]

Does this mean tha the openstreetmap website/database will not be
accessable in China. If so then we can get no more edits from there.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bad (wrong?) OSM publicity?

[Nick Whitelegg]

>"The biggest problem with Apple’s map, Mapion’s Mr. Yamagishi said, is
>that much of its data appears to be drawn from OpenStreetMap Japan, a
>Wikipedia-like service that contains a lot of incorrect and outdated
>information."

I'd like to know what the hell the New York Times is doing allowing these sorts 
of ignorant comments to get published.


Nick



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