Re: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või addr:housename?
It should be added to all buildings then if you want to use it in that way. I can do that too, but we need some agreement on this. Either we use it or not, or use it in some particular cases (then we need to decide in which cases). My idea was to use addr:country=EE along the border only (10-20km). That would help to resolve the ambiguity when people extract countries by a simplified .poly outline (it's always a simplified one, because the true Estonia border cosists of 10335 nodes). Other options would be to either use it everywhere, or to remove it completely. Leaving things in a chaotic state because people can't decide is probably the worst option. Any other option would at least have some thoughts behind it and explanation why it's done in that way. What's the global practice with this tag? The only thing I've found in wiki is: "Using addr:country=*, addr:state=*, and addr:province=* are optional, since they can almost always be determined from boundary relations." Taginfo doesn't help either: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr:country#values I don't know what to make out of this. Четверг, 3 октября 2019, 21:56 +03:00 от "Manuel Hohmann" : > I would not remove addr:country=EE, in particular not as a mechanical edit. > For a human user the country may be obvious, but for software it is much > simpler to read the tags of an object than to find administrative borders, > construct their geometry and determine whether a given address is within that > border or not. > > On 03.10.19 21:42, SviMik via Talk-ee wrote: > > I think I agree with you that the addr:country=EE tag is redundant, > especially far from the border. Do you think it's okay if I remove this tag > automatically from all building further than 20km from the border? Like that: > http://svimik.com/osmaddrcountryremoval1.png > > ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või addr:housename?
I think I agree with you that the addr:country=EE tag is redundant, especially far from the border. Do you think it's okay if I remove this tag automatically from all building further than 20km from the border? Like that: http://svimik.com/osmaddrcountryremoval1.png Вторник, 24 сентября 2019, 18:16 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" : > > There is a wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Et:Key:addr ., I > think it is basically tase 5: housename, tase 6: housenumber if I get the > question right. > > Feel free to enhance the wiki page, not everyone reads talk-ee, but wiki is > more official doc :) > > > Jaak > > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 17:51, SviMik via Talk-ee > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a tagging puzzle here. Maa-amet classifies address parts in the > following way: > > > > Tase 3 – asustusüksus ja linnaosa > > Tase 4 – väikekoht > > Tase 5 – liikluspind (tänav) > > Tase 6 – maaüksuse nimi > > Tase 7 – aadressi number > > > > The problem is, that many buildings in Estonia do not have Tase 5 (street > name), but instead have Tase 6 (lot name) and may or may not have Tase 7 > (housenumber) at the same time. > > > > According to OSM wiki, addr:place is "part of an address which refers to the > name of some territorial zone". > > Looks perfect so far, "the name of some territorial zone" is literally > "maaüksuse nimi". > > But... > > 1. addr:place requires place=* node or area to be mapped too, which is not > really doable for every land lot. > > 2. I'm already using addr:place for Tase 4 (väikekoht, aiandusühistu, etc) > which fits better for this role. > > > > We could use addr:housename for this instead. > > Indeed, Tase 6 is often used as a replacement for the street+number scheme, > and in most cases is literally the property name. > > But... > > 1. Sometimes Tase 6 comes with Tase 7 (housenumber). I'm not sure if > addr:housename can be used together with addr:housenumber, the addr:housename > sounds like it must be the final address part. > > > > Examples with house number: > > > > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;1 > > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;2 > > - here Kasemäe is tase6, not street (tase5), but it still uses house > numbering. This example looks like addr:place. > > > > Lääne-Viru maakond;Kadrina vald;Arbavere küla;Palkoja baas > > Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Vihasoo küla;Pumbamaja > > Harju maakond;Anija vald;Härmakosu küla;Härmakosu tehnopark > > - here the last part is tase6 too. They don't have house numbers, and these > examles do look like addr:housename. > > > > So, the questions is: where exactly do I put the Maa-amet "Tase 6" address > part in OSM tagging scheme? > > And is it OK to use addr:housename together with addr:housenumber? > > > > -- > > SviMik > > ___ > > Talk-ee mailing list > > Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > > -- Svjatoslav Mikhailov ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] address tags
Got it! Have changed my code to use addr:housename for TASE6 starting from now and will update the already imported data too to reflect this change. Среда, 25 сентября 2019, 21:21 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" : > > > According to https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/addr:neighbourhood#map it > is almost only used in Japan and Turkey, which do have specific own addressing > systems. Same taginfo shows that Id supports it in general, but I would not > take it into brand new use here. > > To the original question. I now downloaded full ADS database and checked > samples and it seems that TASE6 is used in rural places for farm names, and if > farm has several buildings (e.g. barn) then it can have additional house > numbers in TASE7. So no problem to use addr:housename + addr:housenumber > combination. > > Jaak > > >On 25 Sep 2019, at 16:33, SviMik via Talk-ee < talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > wrote: > >addr:neighbourhood seems like some barely proposed feature. I can't find > anything decent on the wiki abot this tag. Even worse, there's no even > proposal page. Is it really supported by any software? Can you give me some > description for this tag? > > > > > >Среда, 25 сентября 2019, 15:30 +03:00 от "Vitali Balandin" < v...@hot.ee >: > >> > >>Depends on the situation, most often this is former gardening. In that case, > I > >>would suggest taking advantage addr:neighbourhood > >> > >>вт, 24 сент. 2019 г. в 23:47, < talk-ee-requ...@openstreetmap.org >: > >>>Send Talk-ee mailing list submissions to > >>> talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>> > >>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>> talk-ee-requ...@openstreetmap.org > >>> > >>>You can reach the person managing the list at > >>> talk-ee-ow...@openstreetmap.org > >>> > >>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>>than "Re: Contents of Talk-ee digest..." > >>> > >>> > >>>Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või > >>> addr:housename? (SviMik) > >>> 2. Re: Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või > >>> addr:housename? (Jaak Laineste) > >>> 3. Re: verbatium buiding import discussion (Jaak Laineste) > >>> 4. Re: verbatium buiding import discussion (SviMik) > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Message: 1 > >>>Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:51:48 +0300 > >>>From: SviMik < svi...@mail.ru > > >>>To: talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>>Subject: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place > >>> või addr:housename? > >>>Message-ID: < 1569336708.131737...@f515.i.mail.ru > > >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >>> > >>>Hi all, > >>> > >>>I have a tagging puzzle here. Maa-amet classifies address parts in the > >>following way: > >>> > >>>Tase 3 – asustusüksus ja linnaosa > >>>Tase 4 – väikekoht > >>>Tase 5 – liikluspind (tänav) > >>>Tase 6 – maaüksuse nimi > >>>Tase 7 – aadressi number > >>> > >>>The problem is, that many buildings in Estonia do not have Tase 5 (street > >>name), but instead have Tase 6 (lot name) and may or may not have Tase 7 > >>(housenumber) at the same time. > >>> > >>>According to OSM wiki, addr:place is "part of an address which refers to > the > >>name of some territorial zone". > >>>Looks perfect so far, "the name of some territorial zone" is literally > >>"maaüksuse nimi". > >>>But... > >>>1. addr:place requires place=* node or area to be mapped too, which is not > >>really doable for every land lot. > >>>2. I'm already using addr:place for Tase 4 (väikekoht, aiandusühistu, etc) > >>which fits better for this role. > >>> > >>>We could use addr:housename for this instead. > >>>Indeed, Tase 6 is often used as a replacement for the street+number scheme, > >>and in most cases is literally the property name. >
Re: [Talk-ee] OpenData uuendus Osmose-QA abil?
I like your idea. Actually, any validation tool is always welcomed! I don't speak Python personally, and I'm already mantaining a bunch of my own validation tools (street names and addresses), but having a thing like Osmose/Maa-amet integration would be really awesome! PS. As for my own building import, I do update it from time to time. The buildings I imported have either maaamet:ETAK or maaamet:orig_tunnus tag, which links it to the corresponding Maa-amet building or lot. As long as the last editor is SviMik_import, I keep updating it automatically when Maa-amet changes a street name or building number. PPS. Actually, I've tried to make an address validator for all the buildings, not only imported. Here is the amount of data you might expect: http://osm.svimik.com/ads_validator.php 327808 (42.50%) - OK (OSM addresses matching the Maa-amet database records) 8736 (1.13%) - Possibly wrong (Doesn't match Maa-amet database) 31521 (4.09%) - No data in Maa-amet database (Probably demolished buildings) 403261 (52.28%) - No addr tags in OSM (Yes, not all OSM building have an address) Errors by type: Wrong addr:housenumber: 3888 Wrong addr:street: 1008 Wrong both tags: 3849 Actually, all these errors can be fixed automatically... But I'm note sure how community will react to this :D Понедельник, 23 сентября 2019, 18:09 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" : > > Tere, > > SOTM sai just läbi, järgmine on Cape Town-is 4-5. juuli järgmisel aastal. > Palju huvitavaid ettekandeid oli, nagu alati, videosalvestused on nendest > https://media.ccc.de/c/sotm2019 . > > Üks teema - küsimus kuidas me saaksime mugavalt ja samas sisukalt Open Datast > (eelkõige Maa-amet) saadud andmeid uuendada. Üks huvitav prantslaste töövahend > tundus olevat Osmose-QA : http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en . Selle backendi > saab teha Pythonis suhteliselt lihtsalt “connectoreid”, mis ei impordi > andmeid, vaid tõmbavad andmete uue versiooni ja teevad objekti tasemel > võrdluse OSM-i seisuga. Kui objekt on välises allikas uuenenud, siis > näidatakse see veana kaardil. > > Mulle see meeldib mitmel põhjusel: > - Igaüks saab valida mis ala ta tunneb isiklikult ja mille uuendused ta ette > soovib võtta. > - muudatused on iga kasutaja vastutada ja tema nime alt salvestatud. See on > editor, mitte mass-import. > - saab võtta otse vektorkujul Maa-ameti uued avaandmed ja neid OSM-i teede ja > majadega võrrelda ja siis lihtsamal juhul ühe klikiga sisse viia. Keerukamal > juhul saab avada kohe objektid IDs või JOSMis . Keerukamad objektid nagu > järved, metsad jne on vist lootusetud, need jäävad ikkagi käsitsi > uuendamiseks. > - Sama vahend teeb ka teisi automaatseid andmete kontrolle (tag-id ei klapi > jms), väga palju ta Eestist ei leia samas. Mõni teine OSM validaator on > põhjalikum. > > Peamine puudus on, et keegi peaks vastava analüsaatori Pythonis kirjutama ja > lisama https://github.com/osm-fr/osmose-backend/tree/master/analysers source > alla PR-ina, ning läbi tegema protsessi et see livesse panna. See nõuab pisut > tehnilist tööd. Õnneks (või kahjuks, kuidas võtta) on valdavalt (kui mitte > ainult) prantslased neid juba päris mitmeid teinud, ja need on head näidiseks. > > Jaak ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Talk-ee Digest, Vol 95, Issue 7
addr:neighbourhood seems like some barely proposed feature. I can't find anything decent on the wiki abot this tag. Even worse, there's no even proposal page. Is it really supported by any software? Can you give me some description for this tag? Среда, 25 сентября 2019, 15:30 +03:00 от "Vitali Balandin" : > > Depends on the situation, most often this is former gardening. In that case, I > would suggest taking advantage addr:neighbourhood > > вт, 24 сент. 2019 г. в 23:47, < talk-ee-requ...@openstreetmap.org >: > >Send Talk-ee mailing list submissions to > > talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > talk-ee-requ...@openstreetmap.org > > > >You can reach the person managing the list at > > talk-ee-ow...@openstreetmap.org > > > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >than "Re: Contents of Talk-ee digest..." > > > > > >Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või > > addr:housename? (SviMik) > > 2. Re: Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või > > addr:housename? (Jaak Laineste) > > 3. Re: verbatium buiding import discussion (Jaak Laineste) > > 4. Re: verbatium buiding import discussion (SviMik) > > > > > >-- > > > >Message: 1 > >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:51:48 +0300 > >From: SviMik < svi...@mail.ru > > >To: talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >Subject: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place > > või addr:housename? > >Message-ID: < 1569336708.131737...@f515.i.mail.ru > > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > >Hi all, > > > >I have a tagging puzzle here. Maa-amet classifies address parts in the > following way: > > > >Tase 3 – asustusüksus ja linnaosa > >Tase 4 – väikekoht > >Tase 5 – liikluspind (tänav) > >Tase 6 – maaüksuse nimi > >Tase 7 – aadressi number > > > >The problem is, that many buildings in Estonia do not have Tase 5 (street > name), but instead have Tase 6 (lot name) and may or may not have Tase 7 > (housenumber) at the same time. > > > >According to OSM wiki, addr:place is "part of an address which refers to the > name of some territorial zone". > >Looks perfect so far, "the name of some territorial zone" is literally > "maaüksuse nimi". > >But... > >1. addr:place requires place=* node or area to be mapped too, which is not > really doable for every land lot. > >2. I'm already using addr:place for Tase 4 (väikekoht, aiandusühistu, etc) > which fits better for this role. > > > >We could use addr:housename for this instead. > >Indeed, Tase 6 is often used as a replacement for the street+number scheme, > and in most cases is literally the property name. > >But... > >1. Sometimes Tase 6 comes with Tase 7 (housenumber). I'm not sure if > addr:housename can be used together with addr:housenumber, the addr:housename > sounds like it must be the final address part. > > > >Examples with house number: > > > >Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;1 > >Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;2 > >- here Kasemäe is tase6, not street (tase5), but it still uses house > numbering. This example looks like addr:place. > > > >Lääne-Viru maakond;Kadrina vald;Arbavere küla;Palkoja baas > >Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Vihasoo küla;Pumbamaja > >Harju maakond;Anija vald;Härmakosu küla;Härmakosu tehnopark > >- here the last part is tase6 too. They don't have house numbers, and these > examles do look like addr:housename. > > > >So, the questions is: where exactly do I put the Maa-amet "Tase 6" address > part in OSM tagging scheme? > >And is it OK to use addr:housename together with addr:housenumber? > > > >-- > >SviMik > > > >-- > > > >Message: 2 > >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:16:23 +0300 > >From: Jaak Laineste < j...@nutiteq.com > > >To: SviMik < svi...@mail.ru >, OpenStreetMap Estonia > > < talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > >Subject: Re: [Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – > > addr:place või addr:housename? > >Message-ID: < f5934565-8e26-47a9-ab02-1c4a36384...@nutiteq.com > > >Content-Type: text/plain;
Re: [Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion
I don't know how to use osmose-qa, sorry. Среда, 25 сентября 2019, 8:08 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" : > Would you consider using osmose-qa here? It would require one-time creating > connector for maa-amet buildings shp, and this will be useful in any case, for > whole country and for long time, permanently even. > > Then there are two ways to apply it for Tallinn: (a) remove all verbatium and > then it shows all deleted buildings as missing or (b) softer - no delete, > shows latest maaamet ones as just more uptodate and users can click through > each. Maybe it has some more bulk updating also. I’d start with the soft one, > helps to precheck the changes also, even if you end up bulk delete+upload. > > Creating and deploy proper connector which identifies both maaamet real > updates and verbatium properly may require some learning and sweat. > > Jaak > (Sent from mobile) > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 23:46, SviMik wrote: > > > > http://svimik.com/verbatiumimportmap1.png > > Here's the screenshot. Not precise, but gives some idea. > > 40903 buildings is a bit too much for JOSM. > > > > > > Вторник, 24 сентября 2019, 22:08 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" > : > >> > >> These txt reports with IDs are not too visual, can you create any > renderable > >> file for josm (.osm for example) or screenshot to show the community what > it > >> really means? Are the building under question random or somehow in specific > >> areas etc. I dont know if there is any "test osm server” for such > experiments > >> nowadays somewhere, probably not. > >> > >> Jaak > >> > >>> On 24 Sep 2019, at 07:50, SviMik wrote: > >>> > >>> I have analyzed the largest verbatium's import (changesets 591093, 579407, > >> 572107, 569277, 569055 (ways) + 561094, 559707, 558636, 558056, 557568, > >> 557358, 557193, 556899 (nodes only)), which was made in 2008. That covers > >> 86.7% of all his edits. > >>> The import was covering Tallinn, Saue and Maardu. Turned out verbatium > >> wasn't particulary active outside Harjumaa. > >>> There were total 67813 ways imported, 9032 of them are already deleted by > >> other editors, and 17878 were changed either in geometry or tags* > department > >> (15529 has a geometry change, and 5077 has a tag change), which leaves > 40903 > >> buildings for deletion. > >>> * I did not count the following tags because they are part of my imports > >> anyway: addr:city, addr:country, addr:housenumber, addr:street, > maaamet:ETAK, > >> maaamet:orig_tunnus, source, source:addr, addr2:* > >>> * If some change was reverted I do not count it as a change, because I > only > >> compare the first and the last version > >>> > >>> Here is the list of ways for deletion: > >>> http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways_unchanged1.txt > >>> > >>> Here is the full report for all the 67813 ways: > >>> http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways1.csv > >>> > >>> Full list of his changesets: > >>> http://svimik.com/verbatium_changesets.xls > >>> > >>> Currently, the bbox of his changesets has 91324 buildings, which means... > >> We're gonna delete 44.79% of Saue-Tallinn-Maardu buildings. That gonna be > >> interesting. Should we split it by 10k for example? Or just start with > Maardu > >> and see what happens? > >>> > >>> > >>> Воскресенье, 15 сентября 2019, 9:42 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" > >> : > >>>> Hoi, > >>>> > >>>> Jah, need peaks kustutama. Enne võiks teha muudatuse analüüsi - kui palju > >> ja > >>>> kus kustutataks, ega mõned linnad kohe väga tühjaks ei jää. > >>>> > >>>> Jaak > >>>> > >>>> p.s. sama asi ka corine impordi osade tag-idega, näiteks põllud (field), > >> need > >>>> on pigem müra kui info kaardil. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 14 Sep 2019, at 15:34, SviMik via Talk-ee > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi everyone! > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: > >>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 > >>>>> (...and other similar changesets) > >>>>> > >>>>> There are two issues with th
Re: [Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion
All these edits are automatic. juhanjuku and kaupov were mass-removing spam tag "Type=0x13" from verbatium's import, I don't consider it an 'edit'. Среда, 25 сентября 2019, 8:35 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" : > > Hi, > > When I did Tartu bulk delete-replace with the city gov data long time ago, > then I contacted all the previous editors in the area and asked their > permission. As number of existing data was small, then they were ok. > > Here most buildings seem to have some manual or semi-manual edits after > import, I would group the edits by the involved users (juhanjuku, kaupov seem > to be popular), and ask their permission before basically deleting their > efforts. Where you dont get permission better use soft approach there: just > mark changes for manual checks by community. > > > Jaak > > > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 07:50, SviMik wrote: > > > > I have analyzed the largest verbatium's import (changesets 591093, 579407, > 572107, 569277, 569055 (ways) + 561094, 559707, 558636, 558056, 557568, > 557358, 557193, 556899 (nodes only)), which was made in 2008. That covers > 86.7% of all his edits. > > The import was covering Tallinn, Saue and Maardu. Turned out verbatium > wasn't particulary active outside Harjumaa. > > There were total 67813 ways imported, 9032 of them are already deleted by > other editors, and 17878 were changed either in geometry or tags* department > (15529 has a geometry change, and 5077 has a tag change), which leaves 40903 > buildings for deletion. > > * I did not count the following tags because they are part of my imports > anyway: addr:city, addr:country, addr:housenumber, addr:street, maaamet:ETAK, > maaamet:orig_tunnus, source, source:addr, addr2:* > > * If some change was reverted I do not count it as a change, because I only > compare the first and the last version > > > > Here is the list of ways for deletion: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways_unchanged1.txt > > > > Here is the full report for all the 67813 ways: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways1.csv > > > > Full list of his changesets: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_changesets.xls > > > > Currently, the bbox of his changesets has 91324 buildings, which means... > We're gonna delete 44.79% of Saue-Tallinn-Maardu buildings. That gonna be > interesting. Should we split it by 10k for example? Or just start with Maardu > and see what happens? > > > > > > Воскресенье, 15 сентября 2019, 9:42 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" > : > >> Hoi, > >> > >> Jah, need peaks kustutama. Enne võiks teha muudatuse analüüsi - kui palju > ja > >> kus kustutataks, ega mõned linnad kohe väga tühjaks ei jää. > >> > >> Jaak > >> > >> p.s. sama asi ka corine impordi osade tag-idega, näiteks põllud (field), > need > >> on pigem müra kui info kaardil. > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 14 Sep 2019, at 15:34, SviMik via Talk-ee > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi everyone! > >>> > >>> I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: > >>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 > >>> (...and other similar changesets) > >>> > >>> There are two issues with that import: > >>> 1. Unknown data source with unknown license (probably it was a Garmin map > >> judging by the Type=0x13 tag) > >>> 2. Poor quality of the data. If you see a building distorted like this: > >> http://svimik.com/verbatiumimport1.png > >>> - you can be sure it's verbatium's. Maybe it was OK in 2008, but in 2019 > we > >> have much better options. > >>> > >>> What can be done: > >>> 1. Remove all buildings which geometry and tags were not edited since the > >> initial import. For the tags the following exceptions can be made because > they > >> were automatic edits: > >>> - User xybot has fixed the tag typo (buildung=yes) in the initial import > and > >> added its own tag (created_by=xybot) > >>> - User juhanjuku has removed the Type=0x13 and created_by=xybot tags > >>> - User SviMik_import has imported the address tags to these buildings from > >> the Maa-amet database (nothing that can't be imported again) > >>> 2. Proceed with the Maa-amet building import as usual > >>> > >>> It will solve: > >>> 1. The license issue (if there is any) > >>> 2. The quality issue (if you agree there is an issue) > >>> 3. Will update the
Re: [Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion
http://svimik.com/verbatiumimportmap1.png Here's the screenshot. Not precise, but gives some idea. 40903 buildings is a bit too much for JOSM. Вторник, 24 сентября 2019, 22:08 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" : > > These txt reports with IDs are not too visual, can you create any renderable > file for josm (.osm for example) or screenshot to show the community what it > really means? Are the building under question random or somehow in specific > areas etc. I dont know if there is any "test osm server” for such experiments > nowadays somewhere, probably not. > > Jaak > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 07:50, SviMik wrote: > > > > I have analyzed the largest verbatium's import (changesets 591093, 579407, > 572107, 569277, 569055 (ways) + 561094, 559707, 558636, 558056, 557568, > 557358, 557193, 556899 (nodes only)), which was made in 2008. That covers > 86.7% of all his edits. > > The import was covering Tallinn, Saue and Maardu. Turned out verbatium > wasn't particulary active outside Harjumaa. > > There were total 67813 ways imported, 9032 of them are already deleted by > other editors, and 17878 were changed either in geometry or tags* department > (15529 has a geometry change, and 5077 has a tag change), which leaves 40903 > buildings for deletion. > > * I did not count the following tags because they are part of my imports > anyway: addr:city, addr:country, addr:housenumber, addr:street, maaamet:ETAK, > maaamet:orig_tunnus, source, source:addr, addr2:* > > * If some change was reverted I do not count it as a change, because I only > compare the first and the last version > > > > Here is the list of ways for deletion: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways_unchanged1.txt > > > > Here is the full report for all the 67813 ways: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways1.csv > > > > Full list of his changesets: > > http://svimik.com/verbatium_changesets.xls > > > > Currently, the bbox of his changesets has 91324 buildings, which means... > We're gonna delete 44.79% of Saue-Tallinn-Maardu buildings. That gonna be > interesting. Should we split it by 10k for example? Or just start with Maardu > and see what happens? > > > > > > Воскресенье, 15 сентября 2019, 9:42 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" > : > >> Hoi, > >> > >> Jah, need peaks kustutama. Enne võiks teha muudatuse analüüsi - kui palju > ja > >> kus kustutataks, ega mõned linnad kohe väga tühjaks ei jää. > >> > >> Jaak > >> > >> p.s. sama asi ka corine impordi osade tag-idega, näiteks põllud (field), > need > >> on pigem müra kui info kaardil. > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 14 Sep 2019, at 15:34, SviMik via Talk-ee > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi everyone! > >>> > >>> I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: > >>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 > >>> (...and other similar changesets) > >>> > >>> There are two issues with that import: > >>> 1. Unknown data source with unknown license (probably it was a Garmin map > >> judging by the Type=0x13 tag) > >>> 2. Poor quality of the data. If you see a building distorted like this: > >> http://svimik.com/verbatiumimport1.png > >>> - you can be sure it's verbatium's. Maybe it was OK in 2008, but in 2019 > we > >> have much better options. > >>> > >>> What can be done: > >>> 1. Remove all buildings which geometry and tags were not edited since the > >> initial import. For the tags the following exceptions can be made because > they > >> were automatic edits: > >>> - User xybot has fixed the tag typo (buildung=yes) in the initial import > and > >> added its own tag (created_by=xybot) > >>> - User juhanjuku has removed the Type=0x13 and created_by=xybot tags > >>> - User SviMik_import has imported the address tags to these buildings from > >> the Maa-amet database (nothing that can't be imported again) > >>> 2. Proceed with the Maa-amet building import as usual > >>> > >>> It will solve: > >>> 1. The license issue (if there is any) > >>> 2. The quality issue (if you agree there is an issue) > >>> 3. Will update the map in general, for example the demolished buildings > will > >> be removed from OSM. > >>> > >>> For buildings which geometry was changed by other contributors after the > >> initial import - we can assume both license and qual
[Talk-ee] Maa-amet Tase 6 (maaüksuse nimi) – addr:place või addr:housename?
Hi all, I have a tagging puzzle here. Maa-amet classifies address parts in the following way: Tase 3 – asustusüksus ja linnaosa Tase 4 – väikekoht Tase 5 – liikluspind (tänav) Tase 6 – maaüksuse nimi Tase 7 – aadressi number The problem is, that many buildings in Estonia do not have Tase 5 (street name), but instead have Tase 6 (lot name) and may or may not have Tase 7 (housenumber) at the same time. According to OSM wiki, addr:place is "part of an address which refers to the name of some territorial zone". Looks perfect so far, "the name of some territorial zone" is literally "maaüksuse nimi". But... 1. addr:place requires place=* node or area to be mapped too, which is not really doable for every land lot. 2. I'm already using addr:place for Tase 4 (väikekoht, aiandusühistu, etc) which fits better for this role. We could use addr:housename for this instead. Indeed, Tase 6 is often used as a replacement for the street+number scheme, and in most cases is literally the property name. But... 1. Sometimes Tase 6 comes with Tase 7 (housenumber). I'm not sure if addr:housename can be used together with addr:housenumber, the addr:housename sounds like it must be the final address part. Examples with house number: Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;1 Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Leesi küla;Kasemäe;2 - here Kasemäe is tase6, not street (tase5), but it still uses house numbering. This example looks like addr:place. Lääne-Viru maakond;Kadrina vald;Arbavere küla;Palkoja baas Harju maakond;Kuusalu vald;Vihasoo küla;Pumbamaja Harju maakond;Anija vald;Härmakosu küla;Härmakosu tehnopark - here the last part is tase6 too. They don't have house numbers, and these examles do look like addr:housename. So, the questions is: where exactly do I put the Maa-amet "Tase 6" address part in OSM tagging scheme? And is it OK to use addr:housename together with addr:housenumber? -- SviMik ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion
I have analyzed the largest verbatium's import (changesets 591093, 579407, 572107, 569277, 569055 (ways) + 561094, 559707, 558636, 558056, 557568, 557358, 557193, 556899 (nodes only)), which was made in 2008. That covers 86.7% of all his edits. The import was covering Tallinn, Saue and Maardu. Turned out verbatium wasn't particulary active outside Harjumaa. There were total 67813 ways imported, 9032 of them are already deleted by other editors, and 17878 were changed either in geometry or tags* department (15529 has a geometry change, and 5077 has a tag change), which leaves 40903 buildings for deletion. * I did not count the following tags because they are part of my imports anyway: addr:city, addr:country, addr:housenumber, addr:street, maaamet:ETAK, maaamet:orig_tunnus, source, source:addr, addr2:* * If some change was reverted I do not count it as a change, because I only compare the first and the last version Here is the list of ways for deletion: http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways_unchanged1.txt Here is the full report for all the 67813 ways: http://svimik.com/verbatium_import1_ways1.csv Full list of his changesets: http://svimik.com/verbatium_changesets.xls Currently, the bbox of his changesets has 91324 buildings, which means... We're gonna delete 44.79% of Saue-Tallinn-Maardu buildings. That gonna be interesting. Should we split it by 10k for example? Or just start with Maardu and see what happens? Воскресенье, 15 сентября 2019, 9:42 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" : > Hoi, > > Jah, need peaks kustutama. Enne võiks teha muudatuse analüüsi - kui palju ja > kus kustutataks, ega mõned linnad kohe väga tühjaks ei jää. > > Jaak > > p.s. sama asi ka corine impordi osade tag-idega, näiteks põllud (field), need > on pigem müra kui info kaardil. > > > > > On 14 Sep 2019, at 15:34, SviMik via Talk-ee > wrote: > > > > Hi everyone! > > > > I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 > > (...and other similar changesets) > > > > There are two issues with that import: > > 1. Unknown data source with unknown license (probably it was a Garmin map > judging by the Type=0x13 tag) > > 2. Poor quality of the data. If you see a building distorted like this: > http://svimik.com/verbatiumimport1.png > > - you can be sure it's verbatium's. Maybe it was OK in 2008, but in 2019 we > have much better options. > > > > What can be done: > > 1. Remove all buildings which geometry and tags were not edited since the > initial import. For the tags the following exceptions can be made because they > were automatic edits: > > - User xybot has fixed the tag typo (buildung=yes) in the initial import and > added its own tag (created_by=xybot) > > - User juhanjuku has removed the Type=0x13 and created_by=xybot tags > > - User SviMik_import has imported the address tags to these buildings from > the Maa-amet database (nothing that can't be imported again) > > 2. Proceed with the Maa-amet building import as usual > > > > It will solve: > > 1. The license issue (if there is any) > > 2. The quality issue (if you agree there is an issue) > > 3. Will update the map in general, for example the demolished buildings will > be removed from OSM. > > > > For buildings which geometry was changed by other contributors after the > initial import - we can assume both license and quality issues were solved > since they no longer contain the imported geometry. I know it's a grey field, > and I'm not sure it works like that, but at least these buildings do have some > excuse to stay. > > > > For buildings which geometry was NOT changed, but some POI tags were added - > let them stay for now and discuss it later if needed. I suspect it will be a > rare case, but the exact number is unknown right now. > > > > Questions: > > 1. Has anyone else digged into the issue, maybe asked verbatium himself? > > 2. Can anyone confirm that the import indeed has the license problem? > > 3. Is the proposed plan good? (in case if you agree that it needs to be > fixed) > > > > -- > > SviMik > > ___ > > Talk-ee mailing list > > Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > > -- Svjatoslav Mikhailov ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
[Talk-ee] verbatium buiding import discussion
Hi everyone! I'd like to discuss the import made by verbatium in 2008: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/569055 (...and other similar changesets) There are two issues with that import: 1. Unknown data source with unknown license (probably it was a Garmin map judging by the Type=0x13 tag) 2. Poor quality of the data. If you see a building distorted like this: http://svimik.com/verbatiumimport1.png - you can be sure it's verbatium's. Maybe it was OK in 2008, but in 2019 we have much better options. What can be done: 1. Remove all buildings which geometry and tags were not edited since the initial import. For the tags the following exceptions can be made because they were automatic edits: - User xybot has fixed the tag typo (buildung=yes) in the initial import and added its own tag (created_by=xybot) - User juhanjuku has removed the Type=0x13 and created_by=xybot tags - User SviMik_import has imported the address tags to these buildings from the Maa-amet database (nothing that can't be imported again) 2. Proceed with the Maa-amet building import as usual It will solve: 1. The license issue (if there is any) 2. The quality issue (if you agree there is an issue) 3. Will update the map in general, for example the demolished buildings will be removed from OSM. For buildings which geometry was changed by other contributors after the initial import - we can assume both license and quality issues were solved since they no longer contain the imported geometry. I know it's a grey field, and I'm not sure it works like that, but at least these buildings do have some excuse to stay. For buildings which geometry was NOT changed, but some POI tags were added - let them stay for now and discuss it later if needed. I suspect it will be a rare case, but the exact number is unknown right now. Questions: 1. Has anyone else digged into the issue, maybe asked verbatium himself? 2. Can anyone confirm that the import indeed has the license problem? 3. Is the proposed plan good? (in case if you agree that it needs to be fixed) -- SviMik ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] SviMik_import is back to life
ssue > for all datasets. > > w.r. > Mihkel Oviir > > > > > Kontakt Mihkel Rämmel (< r...@hot.ee >) kirjutas kuupäeval E, 5. august 2019 > kell 19:50: > >Hi, > >Some notes from my side: > > > >The building import from 6 years ago had small issues with 2 things: > >non-square buildings and adjoining buildings. > >First one should be easy to solve by not squaring buildings where > >corners are not around 90 degrees. Or has this been already solved? > >Currently buildings do not use same nodes despite sharing a wall. It > >would be hard or impossible to fix it programmatically without faults, > >even if all data is imported once after post processing the accepted > >data. A tool to assist going through such cases afterwards would not > >hurt. This would assist in finding and fixing what came with import + > >what has been drawn by users but might also need fixing. > >Otherwise no other issues that I can remember of. > > > >About import vs manual mapping - If there would be more mappers I > >would prefer manual mapping of buildings (as more details get mapped > >at the same region). But as there are few active mappers and some > >passive mappers (including myself), I'm happy with import. With > >current going there is no hope in foreseeable future of manually > >mapping all significant buildings. There are regions that are well > >mapped and there are regions where practically no mapping has happened > >over the past years. > > > > > >Regards, > >Mihkel R > >osm: RM87 > > > > > >On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 11:41 PM SviMik via Talk-ee > >< talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > wrote: > >> > >> First, I'd really like you to stop being so aggressive. You could spend > that energy to actually do something to improve OSM rather than ranting about > not being able to understand other languages. Keep in mind that I was > respectful enough to start this discussion in English, so literally everyone > could understand me. And you was disrespectful enough to say that people who > speak Russian are not part of the local community, even when they physically > live in Estonia. Don't be racist, OSM is not about the race or the language we > speak, okay? International projects are supposed to bring people together. > Where does this hatred come from? > >> > >> Now, here are my points: > >> > >> 1) It was discussed in talk-ee mailing list 30.03.2013. > >> > >> 2) After the 2013 import was done, I even made a short presentation during > SotM Baltics 2013 explaining this import and the tools we used. > >> > >> 3) You’re talking about maintaining the data, but that's exactly what I'm > doing right now. > >> > >> 4) I'm really sorry for you if your import was a crap. Mine wasn't. Even > looking at my import 5 years later I can still say that it was a complete > success and the right thing to do. > >> > >> 5) The source of the data is Maa-amet. I'm not offering any editor tools > nor any way to alter the data. My tools are only to confirm or reject the > objects to be imported, thus there is no editors per se that needs to be > identified. > >> > >> 6) This is not a blind import - people see every single change that is > going to happen, and free to confirm or reject every one of them. > >> > >> > >> Воскресенье, 4 августа 2019, 19:41 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" < > j...@nutiteq.com >: > >> > > >> > Your tools are really cool from technical perspective, but have you ever > >> > discussed it fully with the local community, so the stategy is agreed? I > see > >> > link in the wiki page to some forum, but this is not a local community > forum, > >> > it is Russian forum and it is even in a language what a lot of younger > >> > generation does not understand. It is just as absurd as if we would start > to > >> > discuss in Estonian how to map say New York, agree some strategies and > then > >> > assume that it is ok to garbage the map there. I really hope you don't > >> > consider Estonia somehow as a part of Russia. > >> > > >> > My position is that in early years of OSM automatic imports of map for > regions > >> > what you don’t know made some sense, but now they do more harm - create > map > >> > data what is not maintained and not maintainable. Kind of digital > garbage. Is > >> > is much better map less, more carefully, and avoid senseless copy of > other map > >> > dat
Re: [Talk-ee] SviMik_import is back to life
OSM database? If yes, then > >> under which username? I don’t see any auth here, is feels like “anonymous > >> editor”, but OSM does not allow anonymous edits. > >> > >> 2. about second one - map view is too much zoomed in, usually I don’t see > any > >> streets to see the context, so it is really like filling random captchas > >> without any real check. > >> > >> > >> In general I miss here location filters, I want only work with my home > >> city/village what I know about. Generally “guerilla mapping” where you jump > in > >> to a random place you really know nothing about is not generating good map > >> quality in long term at all, and this not suggested. If you map something, > >> then you will be responsible for the data and you need to be sure that it > will > >> be also up-to-date in years to come. Especially if you do random map copy, > in > >> principle here we just copy maa-amet map which does not give much value, > >> everyone could just use maaamet vector map data, this is openly shared > also. > >> Remote mapping is suggested only for exceptional cases, e.g. in emergencies > >> (HOT actions) where you need quickly map and cannot go to the place. > >> > >> But the tools can be very useful - I would use them for my known, usually > >> quite small specific regions like city or village. I can do ground work and > >> will maintain my edits later, and I cannot do it if mapping area is whole > >> country. > >> > >> > >> Jaak > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 3 Aug 2019, at 17:38, SviMik via Talk-ee > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> And it needs your help! > >>> There's many new buildings that were built during the last 5 years. Let's > >> bring the map up to date. > >>> > >>> - To import brand new buildings, visit this page: > >>> http://osm.svimik.com/btrace_verify.php > >>> Just click OK making sure there's no building in OSM already by looking at > >> the map in the middle. > >>> > >>> - Some buildings were drawn by other users, but they didn't put an > address. > >> Visit this page to help add addresses to existing buildings: > >>> http://osm.svimik.com/xgis2osm.php?lang=en > >>> Just enter the house numbers from the pictures like a captcha solving. > >>> > >>> - Like to map roads? The 'Missing roads' validator is back to life too! > >>> http://osm.svimik.com/noroad.php > >>> It shows all the places where a building exists, but there's no roads > around > >> to get there. > >>> ___ > >>> Talk-ee mailing list > >>> Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Svjatoslav Mikhailov > > -- Svjatoslav Mikhailov ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
Re: [Talk-ee] Laagna Tee
The difference with Laagna Tee is how important this road is. Literally any route from/to Lasnamäe lies through it, and if we don't tag it as closed, then OsmAnd will become useless on these days (it doesn't have any other source for traffic or temporary changes). Needless to say that navigators will be really demanded on these days, and it's quite okay to update the map for such a big occasion. For OsmAnd I provide daily updates: http://s2.svimik.com/osm/EE/ And app which makes updating easier: http://s2.svimik.com/osm/OSMDownloader_1.2.apk >ja pärast seda neid pikka aega mitte uuendada. Tha't why I'm asking if it is possible to add some kind of restriction with date condition, so it would invalidate itself automatically without updating the map again. Воскресенье, 7 июля 2019, 10:22 +03:00 от "Jaak Laineste" : > > Iga päev suletakse Eestis ajutiselt kümneid teid, eriti suvel teetööde tõttu, > vt nt https://www.tarktee.ee/#/et. Seda ei ole võimalik OSM-i kaardile > reaalselt panna. Kui ka panna, siis kasutajad oma offline kaarte OSMand-is jt > rakendustes iga päev ei uuenda, et selleks kasu oleks. Sellepärast on ka > üldine poliitika ajutisi sulgemisi mitte kaardistada. Kui kogu tänava > sulgemine on vähemalt 1 kuu järjest, siis on mingi mõte märkida tee > läbimatuks. Kuigi ka see võib tekitada segadust - kasutajad võivad laadida > andmed sel ajal ja pärast seda neid pikka aega mitte uuendada. > Navigatsioonisüsteemid peavad elus andmed (ajutised muutused, traffic jms) > saama mujalt, OSM-i see ei kuulu. > > Laagna tee ainus erilisus on, et sellest on ajakirjanduses palju kirjutatud. > Muidu on see ajutine sulgemine nagu iga teine. > > Jaak > > > On 7 Jul 2019, at 02:00, SviMik via Talk-ee > wrote: > > > > Laagna Tee will be closed on the following dates: > > > > 10 - 12 and 17 - 19: until 10:00 only to the center, 10:00 - 15:30 closed > completely, from 15:30 only to Lasnamäe > > 13, 14, 20, 21: closed completely > > > > Source: > > http://svimik.com/IMG_20190704_215929_1.jpg > > > > 1. How to tag these restrictions? I couldn't find any example of exact date > condition. > > 2. If exact date condition is possible, will OsmAnd understand it? If not, > what's the best way to tag it so most of the software would understand? > > ___ > > Talk-ee mailing list > > Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee > > ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
[Talk-ee] Laagna Tee
Laagna Tee will be closed on the following dates: 10 - 12 and 17 - 19: until 10:00 only to the center, 10:00 - 15:30 closed completely, from 15:30 only to Lasnamäe 13, 14, 20, 21: closed completely Source: http://svimik.com/IMG_20190704_215929_1.jpg 1. How to tag these restrictions? I couldn't find any example of exact date condition. 2. If exact date condition is possible, will OsmAnd understand it? If not, what's the best way to tag it so most of the software would understand? ___ Talk-ee mailing list Talk-ee@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ee
