Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 37
Le 17.02.20 à 21:44, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org a écrit : > Is it OK to remove the "name" tag according to the same rule? why are you asking if you only allow your own view as the reply ? name:xx is an additional name in this xx language. so yes name=bench is not a name, but it's true to every translated name:xx with the same word. so ALL name and name:xx should be deleted. But if an object have a a valid name:xx it have a name (in the osm meaning of this tag). maybe you should make a rendering that hides all the names if name=name:en but removing all name=name:en is wrong. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] it's not a fake, but "it's complicated" - fake building for several shops inside one building
Hello, > I've now moved to tagging as many of them them as 'fixme' nice to highlight the issue. but why not fixing it ? remove the building tag for every fake building object, add the building on the whole outer back. josm contourmerge pluging can do that easily. or, of course, contact DWG if the mapper don't try to fix his errors. any changeset comment about this ? Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects
@Martin > You mentioned the cities in Morocco > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/288704798 > The only difference is that the Baltic Sea involves a couple more languages. no the main difference is : Morocco local rules about name <> one mapper rule about the world talking and (trying to) building a new global rule is fine. having a global rule per contributor only produce edit wars. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects
Le 06.01.20 à 16:35, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > in OpenStreetMap we’re trying to represent the current state of things I agree with that. > English using it in international context as a fallback. yes as a fallback, not as a rule "international -> name=name:en" but if a lake is in a multi-lingual area, if a country has several official languages, if a sea is bordered by countries which together have a very small number of names (2 or 3 in the case of the Baltic Sea) or even a name with a large majority, if a continent has a majority language, there is no obligation to use English as a fallback: if the local community around the lake decides to have a name other than English, if a country have a multilingual name, if the community of the countries around the Baltic Sea decides to use the most used name or a combination of the 3 most common, if a local majority of a continent decide to use Portuguese/Spanish or any other language that better represents the name as used there, I see no reason for this not to happen. but this must be done in a transparent way, (a message on the forum with announcements in the national lists?) and then documented on the multilingual names page, and not a mecanical edit because a contributor wants such a language. Once the language of the name tag is modified, I see no reason why the wikipedia language could not be modified in the same language as the name if that wikipedia page exists and is not a stub. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects
Le 06.01.20 à 01:28, Tomek a écrit : > W dniu 20-01-06 o 00:24, marc marc pisze: >> are you planning a mechanical edit ? > NE, mi volas redakti ĉiun punkton aparte. editing one by one, doesn't solve the the mechanical issue, mechanical isn't about the size of the changeset, it's about the "select objects by a query (for ex all sea in this area) without a review/local knowledge. > W dniu 20-01-06 o 00:24, marc marc pisze: >> A more pragmatic solution would be to propose that each of these objects >> have a name either in the most common language of that place, or in the >> languages of that place or in a neutral language for example an >> artificial language such as Esperanto. > La problemo estas, ke ne eblas difini lingvon de ekzemple Balta Maro really ? reading wikipedia for 2 min, I have a less chaotic vision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:Baltic%20Sea?uselang=fr#Etymology the current name is used extensively, including by a neighboring Baltic country. the article gives 2 other names used by 2 other neighboring countries. the name tag of a multilingual zone must not contain 9 versions. previous revert does not state on your arguments, it was done because you are doing mass editions without following the rules that have been written to avoid edit wars when 2 people have a different opinion. it's sad to see that you've started again a few days ago. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Metropolitan France : what todo with all "supossed to be wrong" name:xx ?
> Judging by https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q212429, > the answer to the last question is no. Thanks. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Metropolitan France : what todo with all "supossed to be wrong" name:xx ?
Hello, Just look at the 2 relation to understand that they are 2 different things with a difference in thousands of kilometers https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2202162 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1403916 I don't know which country you live in, but the administrative details of your country may be unknown to me. and there are probably many administrative entities in your country that do not have a name in french. However, it would not occur to me to copy the name of the country on it with the only logic that they have 6 identical letters out of 21 in your local language. Regards, Marc Le 19.11.19 à 16:40, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson a écrit : > Not all languages make, or care about making, a distinction of France > (including non-Europe) and France (only Europe). > > This is an administrative detail which has no relevance for most of us, even > if we are frequent visitors in France and love it (me!). > > Thus our languages do not differentiate between the two. > > Icelandic for example does not care about the distinction so far, although > Meginlandsfrakkland (one word) or Meginlands-Frakkland could be possible > candidates if we'd need to. > > In the left sidebar on Wikipedia you can see which languages do have this > concept covered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_France > > > -- > Jói / Stalfur > > > 19. nóvember 2019 kl. 15:11, skrifaði "marc marc" : > >> Hello, >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1403916 >> once again, one contributor confused France and Metropolitan France (the >> part of France located on the european continent as opposed to the >> so-called "overseas" territories). >> This time, the contributor also modified the set of names that was >> correct (name ca de fr it nl oc) causing a malfunction of the tools >> using it. >> The incorrect modification has been reverted. but the question arises >> as to what to do with the other names:xx : >> - 19 name:xx contain 2 words and therefore seem correct. >> - ~222 name:xx have no space >> -- those using the latin script are therefore probably false since the >> presence of a single word is probably enough to detect the error. >> is it better to delete them ? or some languages may have only one word >> for "Metropolitan France" ? >> or delete only if if the same value for France ? >> but some translations (e. g. into Esperanto) have in the meantime been >> modified on a single object, it is impossible for me to say if the >> difference is a typo or if it is due to "metropolitan". >> -- I'm unable to detect an error in the name:xx in Cyrillic script, >> Arabic alphabet, Gojūon, .. can anyone ? >> >> the problem being that many contributors make blind translations, >> without looking at the object, thus duplicate an error from one language >> to another. >> Keeping names:xx that we assume are false risk so in the end >> to be worse than losing a correct name:xx >> But it is not the logic of osm to delete/do it again when there is too >> great a risk of error >> >> thanks, >> Marc >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Metropolitan France : what todo with all "supossed to be wrong" name:xx ?
Hello, Andy Townsend wrote : > you could go through the history of the relation and comment > in a changeset of everyone who's added a translation that might > be wrong explaining the problem. yes, but parsing 587 versions to find 222 contributors (maybe a little less, a mapper may add several name:xx) leaves me speechless. especially since some of the contributors did not add the translation on this object but on one of the other 2 "France" objects, and are then copied like in the previous version. which means looking at the versions of 3 objects, that's more version to check. to avoid going crazy, it would require to write a script to do the job, including posting changeset comments and adding a link for translation into the user's local language (if known) Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Metropolitan France : what todo with all "supossed to be wrong" name:xx ?
Hello, https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1403916 once again, one contributor confused France and Metropolitan France (the part of France located on the european continent as opposed to the so-called "overseas" territories). This time, the contributor also modified the set of names that was correct (name ca de fr it nl oc) causing a malfunction of the tools using it. The incorrect modification has been reverted. but the question arises as to what to do with the other names:xx : - 19 name:xx contain 2 words and therefore seem correct. - ~222 name:xx have no space -- those using the latin script are therefore probably false since the presence of a single word is probably enough to detect the error. is it better to delete them ? or some languages may have only one word for "Metropolitan France" ? or delete only if if the same value for France ? but some translations (e. g. into Esperanto) have in the meantime been modified on a single object, it is impossible for me to say if the difference is a typo or if it is due to "metropolitan". -- I'm unable to detect an error in the name:xx in Cyrillic script, Arabic alphabet, Gojūon, .. can anyone ? the problem being that many contributors make blind translations, without looking at the object, thus duplicate an error from one language to another. Keeping names:xx that we assume are false risk so in the end to be worse than losing a correct name:xx But it is not the logic of osm to delete/do it again when there is too great a risk of error thanks, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addressing SIG
Simon Poole: >> how can the new contributor wishing to add an address find this tool? > That doesn't make the slightest difference, because the only people > adding addresses in any meaningful way are those 1% of contributors. it's the problem of the egg and the chicken : if effective tools were accessible to 2% 3% 10% of contributors, then the speed would be multiplied by 2, 3 or 10 A more effective contribution would be to consider 3 types of location/contributor: - those where the opendata is of quality: we should talk about import - those where the opendata exists but where the import has not been accepted and/or not yet done and/or new address exist: the "normal" contributor (99%) should be able to easily access the opendata in an editor and validate in one click if it is correct. or correct the position easily. osmose opendata-fork allow that but it'sn't a editor that newbies find when surfing on osm.org. and only a very few location are listed for addr. - those where the opendata does not exist: a drop-down list to avoid having to rewrite the street name is a minimum. It also avoid typo and letter case. Thinking about the time spent on the addresses I added, I think I could have been much more efficient for both those added by survey and those from opendata. so by spending the same amount of time on it, I could have added a lot more. And it would have been much more motivating to do it often. Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addressing SIG
Hello, Simon Poole : > The issue with addresses is definitely not due to a lack of tools > for OSM contributors. For example > https://regio-osm.de/hausnummerauswertung/anzeige_dynamisch.html?land=Schweiz&lon=8.71423&lat=47.05777&zoom=8&layers=B lack of tools not only mean "no tool exist", it also means "tool not found for the contributor" how can the new contributor wishing to add an address find this tool? there's no way he'll find it. it's an advanced tool for the 1% of the most motivated contributors of for newbie at a mapping party. the other clicks on edit or note. it is osm.org's ergonomics it-self and/or the greeting message during registration that must be improved so that the new contributor can find the tool best suited to his contribution Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addressing SIG
Hello, > We've been "addressing the address topic" for more than > 5 years in France with our BANO project. and despite the amount of opendata information available, 5 years later, there is still a lot of red (missing road name or mismatch between osm and opendata). I agree with the original author: there is a lack of a simple tool to contribute more effectively to addresses. for example a new contributor has no way to validate the name of a street from the opendata. Osmose and BANO layers are good advanced tools but are not adapted to this kind of beginner audience but also out of their sight. there is also a lack of awareness that missing addresses are a lack of osm compared to some proprietary solutions. Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper
Hello, my tips are : - don't use your real name as osm nickname - don't use the sane nickname for your wiki account (you often don't need to change it) and your(s) survey account(s) - use several survey account if you want to split the information you leave behind (for ex one acount for your home location, one near your job location, one for your holidays) it won't make your life anonymous. But if someone looks at your home account, they won't see where you work or on vacation, it divides the amount of information accessible at once at little cost. of course use an email provider whose business is not about selling your privacy Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Anonymous comments on notes now disabled
Hello, So an anonymous user now is unable to answer to a note he create himself unless he decides to create an account to answer? ? since most anonymous notes lack information, we will be able to close nearly all anonymous notes. we will see if this pushes people to register or if there are so many people who forget to identify themselves. Regards, Marc 29 Aug 2019 23:46, Frederik Ramm a écrit : Hi, after two years of discussing the pros and cons, a decision has now been reached to disallow anonymous comments on notes. Up until two days ago, anonymous (i.e. not logged-in) users could create notes and comment on existing notes; the only thing they could not do was close a note. Now, anonymous users can *still* create notes, but they cannot comment on or close existing notes. In the long discussions leading up to this decision (see https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1543 and https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/1926) we agreed that anonymous comments on notes are rarely useful, and when they are, they come mostly from users who have just forgotten to log in. This was weighed against recent massive spam and vandalism activities which rendered the notes system near unusuable in some regions. Perversely, it is much easier to fight a vandal creating new, useless notes (by just closing them) than it is to clean up their droppings from existing notes. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] proposal template with several keys/values
Hello, I try to fix bad link in https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/parking&oldid=1566646 does the template allow multiple value in kesy AND values ? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Proposal_Page/doc the doc doesn't said how. the doc show multiple keys or multiples values using a coma separator but I also fail to have it working. Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative
Hello, > The community of OSM mappers in the Philippines could you share a link that shows that it is the local community that solicited facebook as the wiki page claims and not facebook that invents a collaboration to "whashing" their wishs ? given the frequent issues (about both the quality and the lack of collaboration and opt-in from the local communities where it took place before), it seems important to me not to repeat this error Regars, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
Thanks Mikel and Eugene. a reaction to my idea of being able to receive a follow-up ? Le 07.08.19 à 17:08, Mikel Maron a écrit : > We did this write up on how the previous survey was useful for board > discussions, and some summary of what was raised > https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/06/13/surveying-openstreetmap/ > > * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron > > > On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 05:55:35 PM GMT+3, marc marc > wrote: > > > Hello, > > where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions > available? > I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation > about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago. > it would be nice to be able to indicate that you want to receive a > notification when it is available, as not everyone reads the minutes of > the different groups to find a follow-up to what they have participated. > > Regard, > Marc > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
Hello, where are the results of the previous survey and the resulting actions available? I don't remember the exact title but I'm talking about the investigation about what osmf could/should do, a few months ago. it would be nice to be able to indicate that you want to receive a notification when it is available, as not everyone reads the minutes of the different groups to find a follow-up to what they have participated. Regard, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] `computer_vision_assisted=yes` changeset tag?
Hello, > “This edit was assisted by computer vision” > is useful metadata, no? I use a lot of such datas (traffic sign from mapillary via osmose) I review it (viewing the picture myself) before any change to avoid some false positive and to improve localisation. who 'll made what if I add computer_vision_assisted changeset tag ? for stat ? why not. but in this case, it may also be needed to add humain_reviewed, humain_improved, integration_tools and so... currently I put source=mapillary source:date I see a lot of mappers unable to fill a source tag, for ex because a major editor doesn't promote enought a changeset source tag. it would probably be best to start by having at least the source tag everywhere before pushing for more secondary tags Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
