Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
Hi, > JOSM would need to turn into GIMP, with turn, copy-and-paste, > measure, background grid, etc. Or will it be easier to implement > the OSM API in GIMP? Or make JOSM an Inkscape plugin ;-) > I live in one of a group of 6 similar buildings, placed in zig-zag > along a street. [...] This is all not too difficult, I hade already started a geometry plugin for JOSM once but put that on ice. The most important question is where to store the metadata, i.e. the fact that one of the houses is the master object and the others are just clones. This could either be stored in an editor-specific custom tag on the cloned objects, or your editor could store it locally (which would mean less clutter in the database but you'd be the only one who can make use of this). And of course even if it were stored in the database, other editors would be ignorant of those special tags and could make modifications that disregard the "clone" hierarchy. I'm not too concerned about 3D models at the moment, they could be stored in an external database for all I care, but if someone came along and made our whole data model proper 3D that would be ok also. Just don't ask me to do that, I have enough trouble with 2D already ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
> > And there's of course the low-tech solution that involves a > > compass, taking coordinates of one corner of the building and > > then writing down "150 metres in direction 235°" or so (either > > guessing the 150 metres or counting steps while walking). With > > proper editor support There might be some free tools on CAD-like coordinate geometry. Not sure with java though, in GRASS there is: http://grass.itc.it/grass62/manuals/html62_user/m.cogo.html -- |-|--| | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda | | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
Frederik Ramm wrote: > And there's of course the low-tech solution that involves a > compass, taking coordinates of one corner of the building and > then writing down "150 metres in direction 235°" or so (either > guessing the 150 metres or counting steps while walking). With > proper editor support JOSM would need to turn into GIMP, with turn, copy-and-paste, measure, background grid, etc. Or will it be easier to implement the OSM API in GIMP? That sounds like more than just a Google SoC project. I live in one of a group of 6 similar buildings, placed in zig-zag along a street. I don't want to draw each of the buildings. I should be able to copy, paste, turn, group, copy, paste, paste. / \ / \ / \ Then again, if I discover I drew all houses a little too short, I wouldn't want to edit all of them. They should be 6 instances of an object class and I should only need to update the object definition once. And we need that object to be a 3D model. Version 4711 of JOSM in 2015 will be quite advanced. -- Lars Aronsson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
Hi, > I have only found it possible to measure a building outline based on > aerial imagery - I've not managed to get a good enough image from a GPS. > I'm hoping that one day, video mapping (using match-moving as well as > GPS) may help. I've also heard people say that you might be able to derive information about buildings lining a road if you store the DOP values for all satellites along with your track. This is probably highly experimental though. And there's of course the low-tech solution that involves a compass, taking coordinates of one corner of the building and then writing down "150 metres in direction 235°" or so (either guessing the 150 metres or counting steps while walking). With proper editor support (I've been told that's basic fare for CAD programs) you can then quickly create rectangles according to your measurements. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lars Aronsson wrote: | All the wiki pages on "map features" describe how to add | denomination to an amenity=place_of_worship, but don't say when | a church should be drawn as a dot amenity or when the outlines of | the building (and surrounding park) should be mapped in detail. I | think we should make wiki pages that start with real world objects | instead of tags. IMHO, the outlines of all buildings and parks etc. /should/ be mapped in detail, but won't be because that's too much effort for most mappers. Marking the building with just a node is better than leaving it off the map, and good enough for most uses of the data. I have only found it possible to measure a building outline based on aerial imagery - I've not managed to get a good enough image from a GPS. I'm hoping that one day, video mapping (using match-moving as well as GPS) may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_moving http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_from_motion See also PTStereo (http://www.panotools.org/) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH5v1Tz+aYVHdncI0RAhvEAJ9q7o4zf/FNd/oby3alJy5Zgk+6AACg+8mr TAmhwdI48KojUAb2Tpif5qg= =anWn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
I started doing a "checklist" of common features you might find around towns. It's not much of a techniques page yet, more hints on what to look out for when mapping a town. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Town_mapping pages like that might be useful as a cheat-sheet for common tags in various situations (e.g. another one for country mapping) On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Chris Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have tried to draw large buildings by walking around them. This has > problems due to access and problems due to losing the GPS signal in the > signal shadow (canyoning). If you repeat this on different days the average > sometimes helps but the building has to be large to not be swamped by the > GPS inaccuracy - maybe Galileo will help in 4 or five years' time. > > I have also drawn a large, prominent warehouse by standing in line with a > side, standing back many hundred metres and marking the point, repeating > this at both ends of the each side (for a rectangular building you get 8 > points in total) you can then join these up in JOSM as guide lines, drawing > the building where the lines cross and delete the guidelines - you need to > load the GPX file directly into JOSM to see the waypoints. This is also > crude for a building, but for a large area that you can't gain full access > to (such as a large industrial area) it can help. Lots and lots of photos > help a lot too. > > The best way overall is to trace the aerial photos and probably the only > way for buildings with a complex shape, but in the area I'm interested in > Yahoo! are low-res and not much use for fine detail. > > > cheers, Chris > > - Original Message > > From: Lars Aronsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: talk@openstreetmap.org > > Sent: Sunday, 23 March, 2008 10:47:10 AM > > Subject: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map > > > [snip] > > > All the wiki pages on "map features" describe how to add > > denomination to an amenity=place_of_worship, but don't say when > > a church should be drawn as a dot amenity or when the outlines of > > the building (and surrounding park) should be mapped in detail. I > > think we should make wiki pages that start with real world objects > > instead of tags. > > > > Is there any written description for that kind of detailed > > mapping? > > > > Do you print out the OpenStreetMap at zoom=17 of a few city blocks > > and bring it with you to check all the details? Or can you run > > JOSM on a PDA while walking around? > > > > > > > > > ___ > Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good > > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
I have tried to draw large buildings by walking around them. This has problems due to access and problems due to losing the GPS signal in the signal shadow (canyoning). If you repeat this on different days the average sometimes helps but the building has to be large to not be swamped by the GPS inaccuracy - maybe Galileo will help in 4 or five years' time. I have also drawn a large, prominent warehouse by standing in line with a side, standing back many hundred metres and marking the point, repeating this at both ends of the each side (for a rectangular building you get 8 points in total) you can then join these up in JOSM as guide lines, drawing the building where the lines cross and delete the guidelines - you need to load the GPX file directly into JOSM to see the waypoints. This is also crude for a building, but for a large area that you can't gain full access to (such as a large industrial area) it can help. Lots and lots of photos help a lot too. The best way overall is to trace the aerial photos and probably the only way for buildings with a complex shape, but in the area I'm interested in Yahoo! are low-res and not much use for fine detail. cheers, Chris - Original Message > From: Lars Aronsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: talk@openstreetmap.org > Sent: Sunday, 23 March, 2008 10:47:10 AM > Subject: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map > [snip] > All the wiki pages on "map features" describe how to add > denomination to an amenity=place_of_worship, but don't say when > a church should be drawn as a dot amenity or when the outlines of > the building (and surrounding park) should be mapped in detail. I > think we should make wiki pages that start with real world objects > instead of tags. > > Is there any written description for that kind of detailed > mapping? > > Do you print out the OpenStreetMap at zoom=17 of a few city blocks > and bring it with you to check all the details? Or can you run > JOSM on a PDA while walking around? > ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Lars Aronsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I went to > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mapping_techniques Hmm. See below. > I > think we should make wiki pages that start with real world objects > instead of tags. This is something I've been campaigning (quietly) for a long time, and it's what I try to do every time I add stuff to the wiki - concentrate on explaining how to map something, rather than explaining the meaning of tags. As for the page you've linked to, I spent a long time in December 2006 making that a tight, well edited page, leading off to detailed pages on the different mapping techniques. Now I see that it's wiki-rotting, with scrappy bits about using Google Earth for mapping and dancing around the copyright issues therein and other scrappy bits and bobs. If anyone out there wants to make a really valuable contribution to the project a great way would be to *edit* the wiki - i.e. chop out lots of fluff, tease together the different parts where people have dumped their brains onto Yet Another Introduction Page without having looked around yet and found the same thing phrased 10 different ways already, bringing sets of pages together into proof-read, well written - even illustrated - articles and so on. I'm tempted to offer rewards to anyone who can demonstrate that they spent more time tidying documentation than simply writing more, which is what almost everyone else is doing. Charging 5 euros for every new page might help too :-) As for the actual point behind your post, I think most buildings come from imagery rather than walking around them with a GPS. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
Until now I have mostly been mapping blank areas, traveling a road, uploading a track log and drawing the road for the first time. But I'm now coming back to my own town and the map looks very rough, not at all like those German cities. I tried now to sort out the footways of the cemetery next to me. Someone had marked the cemetery as an area (nice!), but the area's boundary was equal to the outermost footways, and it really should be a rectangle a little larger than that. I couldn't separate the common corner nodes in JOSM (is this even possible?), so I had to draw a new rectangle, tag it as cemetery and then remove the old one. The result is better, but there is still a little gap between the cemetery and a forest/park next to it. These two landuse areas should probably have a common border, but I think I will have to go there and see exactly what that area looks like. And then there are some public buildings that I should map. But how do I get the exact position of the corners of the building? I went to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mapping_techniques but this page describes how to do the kind of "rough mapping" that I have been doing so far. It doesn't describe how to capture buildings, or how to separate (or when not to separate) landuse areas from cycleways. All the wiki pages on "map features" describe how to add denomination to an amenity=place_of_worship, but don't say when a church should be drawn as a dot amenity or when the outlines of the building (and surrounding park) should be mapped in detail. I think we should make wiki pages that start with real world objects instead of tags. Is there any written description for that kind of detailed mapping? Do you print out the OpenStreetMap at zoom=17 of a few city blocks and bring it with you to check all the details? Or can you run JOSM on a PDA while walking around? -- Lars Aronsson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
