Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
First i do not particularly like or dislike the new color, looking at this change only it seems to me in some areas and zoom levels the map appearance is improved, in others it is not. But as i have mentioned on github i think in a broader consideration regarding the style as a whole this change goes in the wrong direction. Making the buildings much lighter further restricts the available color space for area colors (that is essentially all colors that could form a background to a building). The available space between the background color of the map and the building color is extremely small to fit into that dozens of different area colorings and still be distinguishable. So far no suggestion has been made to address this i think. We all know that the standard map style has a lot of technical constraints that make a good design difficult but you should not make the mistake to avoid hard decisions by creating ambiguities. The clarity of a map strongly depends on things that are shown to be clearly and distinctly shown and not too much stuff that is just adumbrated. Specifically this is a problem when showing buildings at zoom levels 12-14 where the individual building often is hardly 1-2 pixels in size. In areas near the equator (where extensive building mapping is rare) showing buildings at z=12 is fully pointless and still doubtful for all but the largest buildings at z=14, see: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/7.7612/-72.2261 Even at very high latitudes at z=12 the smaller buildings are just noise: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/68.9777/33.0913 And in areas with dense building coverage this is further aggravated by the way AGG renders polygons. From z=15 on things look better, largely due to the outlining - low latitude cities still look crappy but more due to the roads than due to the buildings. Part of why the brighter color might seem an improvement is that it creates less disturbing noise at these levels but this is just hiding the fact that displaying sub-pixel sized buildings does not make a lot of sense and it further smudges the already difficult to distinguish urban landuse colors. In any case ultimately i think it is good to try things out this way - there is only so much you can evaluate in advance in a test deployment as it has been done for this change. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 05/01/15 06:49, Maarten Deen wrote: - Lester, the discussion was not a couple of days over the holiday season. My initial request for feedback was at 27 November. That coincides with the start of the US holiday season. And for the first time in a number of years *I* actually got away for a proper break during December coming back to a pile of emails about 'things not looking right' - amongst a mile of other problems due to recent updates in many areas. Seems a lot of people spent Christmas 'improving things' :( Matthijs - I've spent the best part of the last three years trying to get websites that work perfectly on legacy browsers usable on phones and tablets. The new colours can be distinguished across all devices, but only if you have good eyesight. I need glasses these days to work and they probably need replacing but the sample page I posted I have no problem with the old contrast - only the new one is causing difficulty - and comments from others! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
Dear all, A couple or comments: - We are aware that not everyone likes the new colours, but the comments we received (both here and on Github) indicates that a majority prefers lighter colours. - Can anyone who dislikes the new building colours please indicate which hardware you are using when looking at the map? It would be interesting to see if the problems are worse on certain types of hardware. It would be even better if you could compare multiple devices (e.g. desktop and mobile, or desktop and laptop). - I'd be happy with more customisation of the style. One of the explicit design goals of osm-carto is to make the style easily customizable. I agree it would be nice to have easy customisation available through osm.org, but I have my hands full on the current stylesheet already, so it won't be me who will be implementing that. - Lester, the discussion was not a couple of days over the holiday season. My initial request for feedback was at 27 November. Also I'm sorry if I don't respond to every comment individually. I am trying to balance the time spend on communicating with the community and writing code - if I would go into individual discussions with everyone on the list, I wouldn't be able to write a single line of code. I hope I'm striking the right balance. Kind regards, Matthijs On 27 November 2014 at 01:16, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: Dear all, We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right the proposal): http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040 Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server. As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to see the road network in areas with many buildings. More info can be found in the Github issue: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/565. I would like to thank Paul Norman and Mateusz Konieczny, who have done the majority of the work. Please let us know what you think of the new rendering, either on Github or as a reply to this message. Kind regards, Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
See also https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1176 that proposes adding buildings with historic=castle to major buildings. Currently only buildings with place_of_worship are recognized as major and are rendered with special style (=darker). 2015-01-02 18:17 GMT+01:00 Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl: On 27 November 2014 at 01:16, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. I would like to thank everyone for their feedback, either here or on Github. The new style has been accepted with some improvements, and is about to be deployed. We have changed some aspects of the rendering as the result of your suggestions. In particular, we made the buildings a bit darker on zoom levels up to zoom 14, and we shifted the colour to colour that is more gray rather than brownish. There are still a couple of minor issues of which we are aware, such as the rendering of buildings on top of barracks. We will keep working on solving these. We also haven't taken a definite decision on whether to render churches darker or not. It is clear that opinions diverge on this topic. We might reconsider the decision to render churches darker in the future. -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 27 November 2014 at 01:16, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. I would like to thank everyone for their feedback, either here or on Github. The new style has been accepted with some improvements, and is about to be deployed. We have changed some aspects of the rendering as the result of your suggestions. In particular, we made the buildings a bit darker on zoom levels up to zoom 14, and we shifted the colour to colour that is more gray rather than brownish. There are still a couple of minor issues of which we are aware, such as the rendering of buildings on top of barracks. We will keep working on solving these. We also haven't taken a definite decision on whether to render churches darker or not. It is clear that opinions diverge on this topic. We might reconsider the decision to render churches darker in the future. -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
only a few of the religious buildings can be concidered landmarks. In my home city it is 1 of 5 Here in the New World, the proportion of significant churches is similarly low in many places. Using Cincinnati, Ohio, and its surrounding county as an example, only 25% of OSM-tagged religious buildings could be considered historic. In Poland nearly all churches are landmarks, what is not changed by fact that small part of them is historic (for example: recently constructed church in Ochotnica Górna - https://www.google.pl/maps/@49.5114794,20.2478019,3a,75y,248.68h,78.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sC9_0FPJ_m3iUJAKpjMLQ9w!2e0?hl=pl http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=49.5115mlon=20.2458#map=15/49.5115/20.2458layers=N ) 2014-11-29 2:41 GMT+01:00 Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us: On 2014-11-28 14:37, Mihkel Rämmel wrote: By making all religious buildings highly visible on the current buildings demo style it makes a great style to use when you want to visit all the religious places nearby but nothing else. I do not know about the rest of the world but at least in a typical eastern european city only a few of the religious buildings can be concidered landmarks. In my home city it is 1 of 5. Here in the New World, the proportion of significant churches is similarly low in many places. Using Cincinnati, Ohio, and its surrounding county as an example, only 25% of OSM-tagged religious buildings could be considered historic. overpass turbo shows 201 ways in the county that are tagged amenity=place_of_worship, amenity:historic=place_of_worship, or building=church. (We're starting to use specific building tags like =church around here, but we aren't quite there yet.) By comparison, only 45 churches and five synagogues have Wikipedia articles [1] and only 33 buildings with church, chapel, cathedral, or temple in their names are listed on the National Register of Historic Places. [2] By comparison, Wikipedia has more articles on high schools in the same county. [3] If you include the 460 place-of-worship POIs that could someday be remapped as building footprints, the statistic would drop to less than 8%. (We've already deleted or retagged GNIS-imported churches marked historic.) The Cincinnati-Middletown metropolitan statistical area was ranked 71st most religious in a 2012 Gallup poll of 189 U.S. MSAs. Granted, that's a measure of the importance residents place on religion, not the city's church architecture. But there are plenty of places in this country where churches are even less important. I don't dispute that churches are important to navigation in many older cities, particularly in Europe. But openstreetmap-carto contributors have always reiterated the importance of keeping regional styles to a minimum. The other building types included in the buildings-major layer (supermarket, mall, attraction) each have an inherent largeness or importance, but globally, churches aren't necessarily large or key to wayfinding. (What about building=mosque, building=temple, etc.?) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Churches_in_ Hamilton_County,_Ohio [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_ Historic_Places_listings_in_Hamilton_County,_Ohio [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:High_schools_in_ Hamilton_County,_Ohio -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
Does it always have to be red/brown-ish? I would much more prefer some simple different shades of grey. This would also look better with most overlays in my opinion. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 28/11/2014, Mihkel Rämmel rmihke...@hot.ee wrote: In densely built up areas this change does not improve the visibility of roads. The result is quite the opposite with residential and living streets. Choosing areas that have 99,9% of buildings tagged as building=yes as sample areas does not show what we loose in the areas where buildings are slowly getting tagged the way they should be. I would keep the distinction between important buildings and non-important buildings. I think this new style is a big improvement, but I too miss the greater color diversitybthat we have with the current style. Around the same time this merge request started (a good while ago now) I made another merge request[1] to cleanup the definition and styling of minor buildings (shed, roof, canopy, etc). The consensus was to get the more ambitious branch merged first and reintroduce minor buldings afterwards. I still think the consensus was a good one (the current proposal is taking long enough without adding to its requirements), but I'm taking the opportunity of this thread to get talk's opinion on rendering of minor buildings. [1]: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/568 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
Just to be clear, you mean 14 and *below*, right? Like, numbers less than or equal to 14. Yes thats what I meant..lower numbers but physcial higher (above) xD 2014-11-27 23:57 GMT+01:00 Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl: On 27 November 2014 at 22:46, christian.pietz...@googlemail.com christian.pietz...@gmail.com wrote: in my opinion buildings could be slightly darker. It is visible enough on higher zoom levels but at zoom 14 and above its like there are no buildings. (Especially buildings inside industrial areas) Just to be clear, you mean 14 and *below*, right? Like, numbers less than or equal to 14. -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
I would say this style-change is still a bit too green in the meaning of being ready. In densely built up areas this change does not improve the visibility of roads. The result is quite the opposite with residential and living streets. Choosing areas that have 99,9% of buildings tagged as building=yes as sample areas does not show what we loose in the areas where buildings are slowly getting tagged the way they should be. I would keep the distinction between important buildings and non-important buildings. I would not have anything against rendering all insignificant buildings and buildings tagged as building=yes a little bit lighter than on the current style. But definetly not as light as on the buildings demo style. By making all religious buildings highly visible on the current buildings demo style it makes a great style to use when you want to visit all the religious places nearby but nothing else. I do not know about the rest of the world but at least in a typical eastern european city only a few of the religious buildings can be concidered landmarks. In my home city it is 1 of 5. Regards, Mihkel On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 3:16 AM, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: Dear all, We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right the proposal): http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040 Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server. As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to see the road network in areas with many buildings. More info can be found in the Github issue: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/565. I would like to thank Paul Norman and Mateusz Konieczny, who have done the majority of the work. Please let us know what you think of the new rendering, either on Github or as a reply to this message. Kind regards, Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 2014-11-28 14:37, Mihkel Rämmel wrote: By making all religious buildings highly visible on the current buildings demo style it makes a great style to use when you want to visit all the religious places nearby but nothing else. I do not know about the rest of the world but at least in a typical eastern european city only a few of the religious buildings can be concidered landmarks. In my home city it is 1 of 5. Here in the New World, the proportion of significant churches is similarly low in many places. Using Cincinnati, Ohio, and its surrounding county as an example, only 25% of OSM-tagged religious buildings could be considered historic. overpass turbo shows 201 ways in the county that are tagged amenity=place_of_worship, amenity:historic=place_of_worship, or building=church. (We're starting to use specific building tags like =church around here, but we aren't quite there yet.) By comparison, only 45 churches and five synagogues have Wikipedia articles [1] and only 33 buildings with church, chapel, cathedral, or temple in their names are listed on the National Register of Historic Places. [2] By comparison, Wikipedia has more articles on high schools in the same county. [3] If you include the 460 place-of-worship POIs that could someday be remapped as building footprints, the statistic would drop to less than 8%. (We've already deleted or retagged GNIS-imported churches marked historic.) The Cincinnati-Middletown metropolitan statistical area was ranked 71st most religious in a 2012 Gallup poll of 189 U.S. MSAs. Granted, that's a measure of the importance residents place on religion, not the city's church architecture. But there are plenty of places in this country where churches are even less important. I don't dispute that churches are important to navigation in many older cities, particularly in Europe. But openstreetmap-carto contributors have always reiterated the importance of keeping regional styles to a minimum. The other building types included in the buildings-major layer (supermarket, mall, attraction) each have an inherent largeness or importance, but globally, churches aren't necessarily large or key to wayfinding. (What about building=mosque, building=temple, etc.?) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Churches_in_Hamilton_County,_Ohio [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Historic_Places_listings_in_Hamilton_County,_Ohio [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:High_schools_in_Hamilton_County,_Ohio -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 27/11/14 01:16, Matthijs Melissen wrote: We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. Not sure your demo is proving anything. Zooming in on the area covered by the demo on the live map I'm not seeing very much of the corruptions introduced by switching building names from brown to purple and adding the 'centroid' dt which then pushes everything off to one side :( PLEASE get ONE thing fixed first and fully deployed before changing something else. Building colour is fine here http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.09209/-1.94670. I don't unfortunately have an example of the section which had much tidier brown text on all the buildings, but I think I HAVE established that a zoom level should use the icon OMLY when the name is not displayed, and if there is no icon don't just display a dot :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 27 Nov 2014 09:18, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Not sure your demo is proving anything. Zooming in on the area covered by the demo on the live map I'm not seeing very much of the corruptions Have their been corruptions? I sm not sure what you are referring to. introduced by switching building names from brown to purple We have neither brown nor purple building names, nor have we ever had them. Brown is used for some amenities, and pink is used for shops. This hasn't changed lately. and adding the 'centroid' dt which then pushes everything off to one side :( Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. I don't unfortunately have an example of the section which had much tidier brown text on all the buildings, but I think I HAVE established that a zoom level should use the icon OMLY when the name is not displayed, and if there is no icon don't just display a dot :( The purple dots are used for shop types for which we don't have a specific icon. We haven't received other complaints about this. This dhould not have replaced any brown. -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
I like the fact that churches have a darker colour. I'd like to see hospitals, schools, museums and other more important buildings with a darker colour too. Nice to see the main layer get some makeup. Janko 2014-11-27 10:16 GMT+01:00 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: On 27/11/14 01:16, Matthijs Melissen wrote: We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. Not sure your demo is proving anything. Zooming in on the area covered by the demo on the live map I'm not seeing very much of the corruptions introduced by switching building names from brown to purple and adding the 'centroid' dt which then pushes everything off to one side :( PLEASE get ONE thing fixed first and fully deployed before changing something else. Building colour is fine here http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.09209/-1.94670. I don't unfortunately have an example of the section which had much tidier brown text on all the buildings, but I think I HAVE established that a zoom level should use the icon OMLY when the name is not displayed, and if there is no icon don't just display a dot :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 27/11/14 09:42, Matthijs Melissen wrote: On 27 Nov 2014 09:18, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Not sure your demo is proving anything. Zooming in on the area covered by the demo on the live map I'm not seeing very much of the corruptions Have their been corruptions? I sm not sure what you are referring to. THIS is a matter of different areas needing different treatment. The sample I pointed to has had a few notes added about names being wrong, but actually because of the close proximity of buildings the names which WERE in brown a year or so ago are now in purple and pushed perhaps two buildings away! Currently most of the purple text is mainly across an adjacent building. introduced by switching building names from brown to purple We have neither brown nor purple building names, nor have we ever had them. Brown is used for some amenities, and pink is used for shops. This hasn't changed lately. If I look at the area used in the building colour demo on the main map there is considerably less purple text. If my areas were rendered as tidily there would not be a problem. I'm not sure when it changed, but end users are now commenting on it :( and adding the 'centroid' dt which then pushes everything off to one side :( Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Because the 'unclassified' icon is a dot, it is dropped on the building, so the text is now below the building ... on the next one. I don't unfortunately have an example of the section which had much tidier brown text on all the buildings, but I think I HAVE established that a zoom level should use the icon OMLY when the name is not displayed, and if there is no icon don't just display a dot :( The purple dots are used for shop types for which we don't have a specific icon. We haven't received other complaints about this. This dhould not have replaced any brown. As I said ... I'm not sure when this did change, but it may be that since we ARE now adding a lot more fine detail it is that which has changed, but I AM convinced I had a much cleaner view of the areas I work in previously, and I add detail so I can use these maps as location maps to replace Google on websites. It is my customers who are commenting ... not complaints, but something has changed for them to comment! I've been using these for the last few years. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
I like the change,i would do a live example when people can see how the Map will look in their region Florin Badita 0731/172.745 0754/491.049 On Nov 27, 2014 3:19 AM, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: Dear all, We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right the proposal): http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040 Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server. As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to see the road network in areas with many buildings. More info can be found in the Github issue: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/565. I would like to thank Paul Norman and Mateusz Konieczny, who have done the majority of the work. Please let us know what you think of the new rendering, either on Github or as a reply to this message. Kind regards, Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 11/27/2014 2:11 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Because the 'unclassified' icon is a dot, it is dropped on the building, so the text is now below the building ... on the next one. Shop text has always appeared below the icon - this is not new or unique to the generic icon. It is my customers who are commenting ... not complaints, but something has changed for them to comment! I've been using these for the last few years. From everything you've said about this and past changes, your customers might be better served by running an older version of the stylesheet on your tile server, or the French or German styles which are similar. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
Hi in my opinion buildings could be slightly darker. It is visible enough on higher zoom levels but at zoom 14 and above its like there are no buildings. (Especially buildings inside industrial areas) I think the the amount of buildings in OSM is very nice and thats why we shouldn't hide it too much. A little darker than in the demo and I would be happy. Thanks for developing the openstreetmap-carto style Christian aka Hedaja 2014-11-27 11:35 GMT+01:00 Paul Norman penor...@mac.com: On 11/27/2014 2:11 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Because the 'unclassified' icon is a dot, it is dropped on the building, so the text is now below the building ... on the next one. Shop text has always appeared below the icon - this is not new or unique to the generic icon. It is my customers who are commenting ... not complaints, but something has changed for them to comment! I've been using these for the last few years. From everything you've said about this and past changes, your customers might be better served by running an older version of the stylesheet on your tile server, or the French or German styles which are similar. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 27 November 2014 at 22:46, christian.pietz...@googlemail.com christian.pietz...@gmail.com wrote: in my opinion buildings could be slightly darker. It is visible enough on higher zoom levels but at zoom 14 and above its like there are no buildings. (Especially buildings inside industrial areas) Just to be clear, you mean 14 and *below*, right? Like, numbers less than or equal to 14. -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
I would be tempted to go a little bit darker - not much but right now the proposal looks very washed out against the background and the contrast between buildings and churches is very stark. But in general this is a good idea. Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
Unfortunately I don't think the proposed building colour works at all well within residential or industrial landuse areas - the landuse colour seems to be too prominent compared with the building colour, and I don't think the yellowy brown colour looks nice against the background colour. I think the buildings in OSM are one of our greatest features and though they should perhaps be a little lighter than in the current style I think that on the main map we should try to show off some of our level of detail compared with other online maps! I liked a previous building style in which buildings tagged as building=house and other residential tags were shown in a lighter shade - now this is only used for building=garage. Cheers. Paul Williams (Paul The Archivist) On 27 November 2014 at 22:59, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: I would be tempted to go a little bit darker - not much but right now the proposal looks very washed out against the background and the contrast between buildings and churches is very stark. But in general this is a good idea. Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
Hi, it seems to me that the demo server doesn't work? Neither with the actual Chrome or Firefox. Regards, Archer 2014-11-27 2:16 GMT+01:00 Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl: Dear all, We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right the proposal): http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040 Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server. As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to see the road network in areas with many buildings. More info can be found in the Github issue: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/565. I would like to thank Paul Norman and Mateusz Konieczny, who have done the majority of the work. Please let us know what you think of the new rendering, either on Github or as a reply to this message. Kind regards, Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
Seems to be fixed. Now I can view the demo. 2014-11-27 2:25 GMT+01:00 Archer arc...@gulli.com: Hi, it seems to me that the demo server doesn't work? Neither with the actual Chrome or Firefox. Regards, Archer 2014-11-27 2:16 GMT+01:00 Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl: Dear all, We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map, we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this change. A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right the proposal): http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040 Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server. As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to see the road network in areas with many buildings. More info can be found in the Github issue: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/565. I would like to thank Paul Norman and Mateusz Konieczny, who have done the majority of the work. Please let us know what you think of the new rendering, either on Github or as a reply to this message. Kind regards, Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right the proposal): http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040 Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server. As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to see the road network in areas with many buildings. Nice work. Building appear more like in the Humanitarian rendering. Hospitals look better compared to regular buildings. Question. I know this wasn't asked, but in the first link, http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393, but some of the trees don't render in the new version, yet some do. I didn't look at the tags to see the differences. Personally I like the individual trees rendering. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On 27 November 2014 at 02:03, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: Question. I know this wasn't asked, but in the first link, http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393, but some of the trees don't render in the new version, yet some do. I didn't look at the tags to see the differences. Personally I like the individual trees rendering. The new version is not automatically updated with the latest data. Probably some of the trees were added recently and are not yet in the database of the demo database. This proposal doesn't influence the rendering of trees. -- Matthijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
On Do, Nov 27, 2014 at 01:16:05 +, Matthijs Melissen wrote: We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. I like the new rendering of the buildings in general, but they look weird on darker backgrounds now (like the barracks in the Krakow example and Governors Island in New York). Those renderings are too prominent anyway, so maybe those should be changed first to a lighter tone? Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.jochentopf.com/ +49-173-7019282 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto
maybe those should be changed first to a lighter tone? https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1053 proposes to stop rendering barracks (too prominent, landuse=military is already rendered). 2014-11-27 7:26 GMT+01:00 Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org: On Do, Nov 27, 2014 at 01:16:05 +, Matthijs Melissen wrote: We are considering to change the colour of buildings in openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org. I like the new rendering of the buildings in general, but they look weird on darker backgrounds now (like the barracks in the Krakow example and Governors Island in New York). Those renderings are too prominent anyway, so maybe those should be changed first to a lighter tone? Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.jochentopf.com/ +49-173-7019282 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
