Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

ok !

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 5:19 PM -05:00 from John D. :
> 
>OK !
>
> 
>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 4:24 PM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>> 
>>Though if valid tagging results in poor results, then it still can be reported
>>https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD (check whatever it is already reported 
>>before making a new issue)
>> 
>>Jun 6, 2020, 12:28 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge is added.
>>> 
>>>You appear to be confusing the ID editor with actual renderings of the map. 
>>>How it appears i iD when in edit mode is irrelevant. We map & tag so 
>>>renderers can produce detailed maps.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On 06/06/2020 01:57, John D. wrote:
tunnel looks better than bridge, water is still visible under the layer of 
bridge, or area, does not hide water. 
 
tunnel hides water.
 
>Friday, June 5, 2020 8:43 AM -05:00 from Dave F via talk  
> :
> 
>On 05/06/2020 13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
> 
>>
>> when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add tunnel ?
> 
>There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This
>goes for all scenarios, including roads.
> 
>DaveF
> 
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
 
 
 
 
>> 
>>___
>>talk mailing list
>>talk@openstreetmap.org
>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
> 
> 
> 
>  
 
 
 
 ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

Though if valid tagging results in poor results, then it still can be reported
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD (check whatever it is already reported 
before making a new issue)

Jun 6, 2020, 12:28 by talk@openstreetmap.org:

>  >then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge isadded.
>  
>  You appear to be confusing the ID editor with actual renderings ofthe 
> map. How it appears i iD when in edit mode is irrelevant. We map& tag so 
> renderers can produce detailed maps. 
>  
>  
>  
> On 06/06/2020 01:57, John D. wrote:
>
>> tunnel looks better than bridge, water is still visible  under the 
>> layer of bridge, or area, does not hide water. 
>>  
>> tunnel hides water.
>>   
>>
>>> Friday, June 5, 2020 8:43 AM -05:00 from  Dave F via talk >>> 
>>>  >>    
>>> On 05/06/2020  13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>>>    
>>> >
>>>  > when the river stream comes to the bridgecan you 
>>> split and add tunnel ?
>>>
>>> There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or  the 
>>> other. This
>>>  goes for all scenarios, including roads.
>>>  
>>>  DaveF
>>>  
>>>  ___
>>>  talk mailing list
>>>  >>> talk@openstreetmap.org 
>>>  >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

i did not write the e-mail program,
 
but it looks like your talking about (reply all) not (reply).
  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 2:28 PM -05:00 from Dave F via talk 
>:
> 
>Could you please reply to the forum list not just the sender. I assume you're 
>the OP. Difficult to tell when you use different email addresses.
>
>>then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge is added.
>
>You appear to be confusing the ID editor with actual renderings of the map. 
>How it appears i iD when in edit mode is irrelevant. We map & tag so renderers 
>can produce detailed maps.
>
> 
>On 06/06/2020 01:57, John D. wrote:
>>tunnel looks better than bridge, water is still visible under the layer of 
>>bridge, or area, does not hide water. 
>> 
>>tunnel hides water.
>> 
>>>Friday, June 5, 2020 8:43 AM -05:00 from Dave F via talk  
>>> :
>>>  
>>>On 05/06/2020 13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>>> 

 when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add tunnel ?
>>>There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This
>>>goes for all scenarios, including roads.
>>>
>>>DaveF
>>>
>>>___
>>>talk mailing list
>>>talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
 
 
 
 ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Dave F via talk]

Could you please reply to the forum list not just the sender. I assume 
you're the OP. Difficult to tell when you use different email addresses.


>then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge is added.

You appear to be confusing the ID editor with actual renderings of the 
map. How it appears i iD when in edit mode is irrelevant. We map & tag 
so renderers can produce detailed maps.



On 06/06/2020 01:57, John D. wrote:
tunnel looks better than bridge, water is still visible under the 
layer of bridge, or area, does not hide water.

tunnel hides water.

Friday, June 5, 2020 8:43 AM -05:00 from Dave F via talk
:
On 05/06/2020 13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>
> when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add
tunnel ?

There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This
goes for all scenarios, including roads.

DaveF

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

this was solved when someone said you can write your own.

  
>Monday, June 8, 2020 9:35 PM -05:00 from Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
> 
>On 9/6/20 12:01 am, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>> YES !, i guess what i am saying i would like to see more drop down
>> options.
>
>How many options would you like?
>
>Enough for many pages of options?
>
>Add seasonal, open_hours, description, etc etc?
>
>
>Personally I don't use drop down menus, prefer to tag what I see and
>know rather than be influenced by them. YMMV.
>
>
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
 
 
 
 ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Warin]

On 9/6/20 12:01 am, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
YES !, i guess what i am saying i would like to see more drop down 
options.



How many options would you like?

Enough for many pages of options?

Add seasonal, open_hours, description, etc etc?


Personally I don't use drop down menus, prefer to tag what I see and 
know rather than be influenced by them. YMMV.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Dave F via talk]

On 08/06/2020 18:12, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


On 8. Jun 2020, at 16:15, Dave F  wrote:

 Good Lord!
That has both tunnel & bridge tags on the same object!
This is not what is being discussed here.



it’s in the secondary thread that you started here ;-)


No Martin. Both tunnel & bridge, but on *separate* objects crossing each 
other!


Your example is a bridge with a roof on it.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bridge%3Dcovered
or covered=yes

Having road on top does not make it, in any sense, a tunnel.

DaveF











There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This goes for 
all scenarios, including roads.


Cheers Martin



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 8. Jun 2020, at 16:15, Dave F  wrote:
> 
>  Good Lord!
> That has both tunnel & bridge tags on the same object! 
> This is not what is being discussed here.



it’s in the secondary thread that you started here ;-)


> There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This goes for 
> all scenarios, including roads.


Cheers Martin 
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Dave F via talk]

Drop down options are not the only choice. You can add your own.
It's not compulsory to use those options. Common sense should be used.  
If there's a bridge over, don't add tunnel/culvert to the way going under.


DaveF

On 08/06/2020 15:01, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
YES !, i guess what i am saying i would like to see more drop down 
options.


Monday, June 8, 2020 8:36 AM -05:00 from nwastra :
I am not very familiar with the iD editor but I notice that where
a stream and highway cross, what boxes and dropdowns are offered
depends what you have selected.
If you have the stream selected you will be offered
tunnel/culvert/layer/etc as options.
If you have the highway selected you will be offered
bridge/tunnel/ford/etc.
Is this the reason you are not seeing the options you expect?

On 8 Jun 2020, at 10:49 pm, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk
> wrote:


i guss what i am saying, add a tunnel is wrong, when the road
is on the bridge, and the drop down box

says culvert. again i am only seeing the ID map.



i just tried it, it only says add a tunnel, then river is under
bridge.

Monday, June 8, 2020 7:00 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny
via talk :
Is there anything wrong with that?
Jun 8, 2020, 13:57 by talk@openstreetmap.org
:

in the ID editor, if you draw a stream - river  line,
and it crosses a road, you get a warning, with the
suggestion
add a bridge or tunnel.

Monday, June 8, 2020 5:13 AM -05:00 from Martin
Koppenhoefer :
Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F
via talk http://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3at...@openstreetmap.org>>:

Do you have an example?

A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a
bridge would be this:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand

Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly
easily defined by determining
which is taking the load.
If a tunnel's structure was removed, would
whitewater's above it
collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.

what I wrote was that - according to some
technical definitions - a tunnel must not have
something above it, it may be sufficient that it
is closed and long enough. I am not sure if we
share these definitions in OSM.
According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an
underground passage for a road or similar." and
also: "tunnel=* is used for roads, railway line,
canals etc that run underground (in tunnel
). " 
This doesn't appear to be exhaustive / complete,
tunnels could also run underwater, above ground
and potentially in the future even in space, no?
Many current underwater tunnels are also
"underground", as they are often running in a man
made structure (embankment like) on the ground or
below the water body/river in the ground
Cheers
Martin
___



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Dave F via talk]

Good Lord!
That has both tunnel & bridge tags on the same object!
This is not what is being discussed here.

DaveF

On 08/06/2020 11:10, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk 
mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>:


Do you have an example?



A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a bridge would be this:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand


Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by
determining
which is taking the load.
If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it
collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.




what I wrote was that - according to some technical definitions - a 
tunnel must not have something above it, it may be sufficient that it 
is closed and long enough. I am not sure if we share these definitions 
in OSM.
According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an underground passage for 
a road or similar." and also: "tunnel=* is used for roads, railway 
line, canals etc that run underground (in tunnel 
). "  This doesn't appear to 
be exhaustive / complete, tunnels could also run underwater, above 
ground and potentially in the future even in space, no?
Many current underwater tunnels are also "underground", as they are 
often running in a man made structure (embankment like) on the ground 
or below the water body/river in the ground



Cheers
Martin




___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

YES !, i guess what i am saying i would like to see more drop down options.
  
>Monday, June 8, 2020 8:36 AM -05:00 from nwastra :
> 
>I am not very familiar with the iD editor but I notice that where a stream and 
>highway cross, what boxes and dropdowns are offered depends what you have 
>selected.
>If you have the stream selected you will be offered tunnel/culvert/layer/etc 
>as options.
>If you have the highway selected you will be offered bridge/tunnel/ford/etc.
> 
>Is this the reason you are not seeing the options you expect?
>
>On 8 Jun 2020, at 10:49 pm, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk < talk@openstreetmap.org 
>> wrote:
> 
>>>i guss what i am saying, add a tunnel is wrong, when the road is on the 
>>>bridge, and the drop down box
>> 
>>says culvert. again i am only seeing the ID map.
>>i just tried it, it only says add a tunnel, then river is under bridge. 
>>>Monday, June 8, 2020 7:00 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>>>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>>> 
>>>Is there anything wrong with that?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Jun 8, 2020, 13:57 by  talk@openstreetmap.org :
>in the ID editor, if you draw a stream - river  line, and it crosses a 
>road, you get a warning, with the suggestion
> 
>add a bridge or tunnel. 
> 
>>Monday, June 8, 2020 5:13 AM -05:00 from Martin Koppenhoefer < 
>>dieterdre...@gmail.com >:
>> 
>>Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk < 
>>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>>>Do you have an example?
>> 
>>A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a bridge would be this:
>>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
>>https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand
>> 
>>>Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by determining
>>>which is taking the load.
>>>If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it
>>>collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.
>> 
>>what I wrote was that - according to some technical definitions - a 
>>tunnel must not have something above it, it may be sufficient that it is 
>>closed and long enough. I am not sure if we share these definitions in 
>>OSM.
>>According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an underground passage for a 
>>road or similar." and also: " tunnel =* is used for roads, railway line, 
>>canals etc that run underground (in  tunnel ). "  This doesn't appear to 
>>be exhaustive / complete, tunnels could also run underwater, above ground 
>>and potentially in the future even in space, no?
>>Many current underwater tunnels are also "underground", as they are often 
>>running in a man made structure (embankment like) on the ground or below 
>>the water body/river in the ground
>> 
>>Cheers
>>Martin
>>___
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

YES !

  
>Monday, June 8, 2020 8:37 AM -05:00 from nwastra :
> 
> 
> 
> 
>I am not very familiar with the iD editor but I notice that where a stream and 
>highway cross, what boxes and dropdowns are offered depends what you have 
>selected.
>If you have the stream selected you will be offered tunnel/culvert/layer/etc 
>as options.
>If you have the highway selected you will be offered bridge/tunnel/ford/etc.
> 
>Is this the reason you are not seeing the options you expect?
> 
> 
>  On 8 Jun 2020, at 10:49 pm, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk < 
>talk@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
> 
>>>i guss what i am saying, add a tunnel is wrong, when the road is on the 
>>>bridge, and the drop down box
>> 
>>says culvert. again i am only seeing the ID map.
>> 
>>>i just tried it, it only says add a tunnel, then river is under bridge. 
>>>
>>> 
Monday, June 8, 2020 7:00 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
talk@openstreetmap.org >:
 
Is there anything wrong with that?
 
 
Jun 8, 2020, 13:57 by  talk@openstreetmap.org :
>>in the ID editor, if you draw a stream - river  line, and it crosses a 
>>road, you get a warning, with the suggestion
>> 
>>add a bridge or tunnel. 
>> 
>>>Monday, June 8, 2020 5:13 AM -05:00 from Martin Koppenhoefer < 
>>>dieterdre...@gmail.com >:
>>> 
>>>Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk < 
>>>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
Do you have an example?
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a bridge would be this:
>>>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
>>>https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by determining
which is taking the load.
If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it
collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>what I wrote was that - according to some technical definitions - a 
>>>tunnel must not have something above it, it may be sufficient that it is 
>>>closed and long enough. I am not sure if we share these definitions in 
>>>OSM.
>>>According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an underground passage for a 
>>>road or similar." and also: " tunnel =* is used for roads, railway line, 
>>>canals etc that run underground (in  tunnel ). "  This doesn't appear to 
>>>be exhaustive / complete, tunnels could also run underwater, above 
>>>ground and potentially in the future even in space, no?
>>>Many current underwater tunnels are also "underground", as they are 
>>>often running in a man made structure (embankment like) on the ground or 
>>>below the water body/river in the ground
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Cheers
>>>Martin
>>> 
>>> 
>>>___
>>>talk mailing list
>>>talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>___
>>talk mailing list
>>talk@openstreetmap.org
>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
 
 
 
 ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[nwastra]

I am not very familiar with the iD editor but I notice that where a stream and 
highway cross, what boxes and dropdowns are offered depends what you have 
selected.
If you have the stream selected you will be offered tunnel/culvert/layer/etc as 
options.
If you have the highway selected you will be offered bridge/tunnel/ford/etc.

Is this the reason you are not seeing the options you expect?


> On 8 Jun 2020, at 10:49 pm, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk  
> wrote:
> 
> i guss what i am saying, add a tunnel is wrong, when the road is on the 
> bridge, and the drop down box
>  
> says culvert. again i am only seeing the ID map.
>  
> i just tried it, it only says add a tunnel, then river is under bridge. 
> 
>  
> Monday, June 8, 2020 7:00 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
> :
>  
> Is there anything wrong with that?
>  
>  
> Jun 8, 2020, 13:57 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
> in the ID editor, if you draw a stream - river  line, and it crosses a road, 
> you get a warning, with the suggestion
>  
> add a bridge or tunnel. 
>  
> Monday, June 8, 2020 5:13 AM -05:00 from Martin Koppenhoefer 
> :
>  
> Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk 
> :
> Do you have an example?
>  
>  
>  
> A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a bridge would be this:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand
>  
>  
>  
> Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by determining
> which is taking the load.
> If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it
> collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.
>  
>  
>  
> what I wrote was that - according to some technical definitions - a tunnel 
> must not have something above it, it may be sufficient that it is closed and 
> long enough. I am not sure if we share these definitions in OSM.
> According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an underground passage for a road 
> or similar." and also: "tunnel=* is used for roads, railway line, canals etc 
> that run underground (in tunnel). "  This doesn't appear to be exhaustive / 
> complete, tunnels could also run underwater, above ground and potentially in 
> the future even in space, no?
> Many current underwater tunnels are also "underground", as they are often 
> running in a man made structure (embankment like) on the ground or below the 
> water body/river in the ground
>  
>  
>  
> Cheers
> Martin
>  
>  
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

>i guss what i am saying, add a tunnel is wrong, when the road is on the 
>bridge, and the drop down box
 
says culvert. again i am only seeing the ID map.
> 
>i just tried it, it only says add a tunnel, then river is under bridge. 
>
> 
>>Monday, June 8, 2020 7:00 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>> 
>>Is there anything wrong with that?
>> 
>> 
>>Jun 8, 2020, 13:57 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
in the ID editor, if you draw a stream - river  line, and it crosses a 
road, you get a warning, with the suggestion
 
add a bridge or tunnel. 
 
>Monday, June 8, 2020 5:13 AM -05:00 from Martin Koppenhoefer < 
>dieterdre...@gmail.com >:
> 
>Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk < 
>talk@openstreetmap.org >:
>>Do you have an example?
>> 
> 
> 
>A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a bridge would be this:
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
>https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand
> 
> 
> 
>>Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by determining
>>which is taking the load.
>>If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it
>>collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.
> 
> 
> 
>what I wrote was that - according to some technical definitions - a tunnel 
>must not have something above it, it may be sufficient that it is closed 
>and long enough. I am not sure if we share these definitions in OSM.
>According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an underground passage for a 
>road or similar." and also: " tunnel =* is used for roads, railway line, 
>canals etc that run underground (in  tunnel ). "  This doesn't appear to 
>be exhaustive / complete, tunnels could also run underwater, above ground 
>and potentially in the future even in space, no?
>Many current underwater tunnels are also "underground", as they are often 
>running in a man made structure (embankment like) on the ground or below 
>the water body/river in the ground
> 
> 
> 
>Cheers
>Martin
> 
> 
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
 
 
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>___
>>talk mailing list
>>talk@openstreetmap.org
>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
> 
> 
> 
>  
 
 
 
 ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

>in the ID editor, if you draw a stream - river  line, and it crosses a road, 
>you get a warning, with the suggestion
> 
>add a bridge or tunnel. 
> 
>>Monday, June 8, 2020 5:13 AM -05:00 from Martin Koppenhoefer < 
>>dieterdre...@gmail.com >:
>> 
>>Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk < 
>>talk@openstreetmap.org >: 
>>>Do you have an example?
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a bridge would be this:
>>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
>>https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>>Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by determining
>>>which is taking the load.
>>>If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it
>>>collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>what I wrote was that - according to some technical definitions - a tunnel 
>>must not have something above it, it may be sufficient that it is closed and 
>>long enough. I am not sure if we share these definitions in OSM.
>>According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an underground passage for a road 
>>or similar." and also: " tunnel =* is used for roads, railway line, canals 
>>etc that run underground (in  tunnel ). "  This doesn't appear to be 
>>exhaustive / complete, tunnels could also run underwater, above ground and 
>>potentially in the future even in space, no?
>>Many current underwater tunnels are also "underground", as they are often 
>>running in a man made structure (embankment like) on the ground or below the 
>>water body/river in the ground
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Cheers
>>Martin
>> 
>> 
>>___
>>talk mailing list
>>talk@openstreetmap.org
>>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
> 
> 
> 
>  
 
 
 
 ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

Is there anything wrong with that?


Jun 8, 2020, 13:57 by talk@openstreetmap.org:

>> in the ID editor, if you draw a stream - river  line, and it crosses a road, 
>> you get a warning, with the suggestion
>>  
>> add a bridge or tunnel. 
>>  
>>
>>> Monday, June 8, 2020 5:13 AM -05:00 from Martin Koppenhoefer <>>> 
>>> dieterdre...@gmail.com >>> >:
>>>  
>>> Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk <>>> 
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org 
>>> :
>>>
 Do you have an example?
  

>>>  
>>>  
>>> A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a bridge would be this:
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
>>> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>
 Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by determining
 which is taking the load.
 If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it
 collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.

>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> what I wrote was that - according to some technical definitions - a tunnel 
>>> must not have something above it, it may be sufficient that it is closed 
>>> and long enough. I am not sure if we share these definitions in OSM.
>>> According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an underground passage for a 
>>> road or similar." and also: ">>> tunnel < =*>>>  is used for roads, 
>>> railway line, canals etc that run underground (in >>> tunnel 
>>> >> exhaustive / complete, tunnels could also run underwater, above ground and 
>>> potentially in the future even in space, no?
>>> Many current underwater tunnels are also "underground", as they are often 
>>> running in a man made structure (embankment like) on the ground or below 
>>> the water body/river in the ground
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Cheers
>>> Martin
>>>  
>>>  
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org <>
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Sa., 6. Juni 2020 um 18:02 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org>:

> Do you have an example?
>
>

A simple example for a tunnel (here subway) on a bridge would be this:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/757824513
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_Morand




> Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by determining
> which is taking the load.
> If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it
> collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.




what I wrote was that - according to some technical definitions - a tunnel
must not have something above it, it may be sufficient that it is closed
and long enough. I am not sure if we share these definitions in OSM.
According to the current wiki, "a tunnel is an underground passage for a
road or similar." and also: "tunnel=* is used for roads, railway line,
canals etc that run underground (in tunnel
). "  This doesn't appear to be
exhaustive / complete, tunnels could also run underwater, above ground and
potentially in the future even in space, no?
Many current underwater tunnels are also "underground", as they are often
running in a man made structure (embankment like) on the ground or below
the water body/river in the ground


Cheers
Martin
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Dave F via talk]

Do you have an example?

Whether it's a bridge or tunnel is fairly easily defined by determining 
which is taking the load.
If a tunnel's structure was removed, would whitewater's above it 
collapse? If 'yes' then it's a tunnel.


DaveF


On 06/06/2020 16:48, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


On 5. Jun 2020, at 15:44, Dave F via talk  wrote:

There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This goes for 
all scenarios, including roads.


you can have both, but it is rare...
and it depends on your definitions of course  (e.g. you might call it an 
enclosed bridge or sth. like this). In engineering standards, tunnels are not 
only dug structures but also completely enclosed linear ways with certain 
length (e.g. in Germany it’s from 80m onwards according to concrete standards, 
IIRR), which can also in exceptional cases lead over a bridge.

Cheers Martin





___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 5. Jun 2020, at 15:44, Dave F via talk  wrote:
> 
> There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This goes for 
> all scenarios, including roads.


you can have both, but it is rare...
and it depends on your definitions of course  (e.g. you might call it an 
enclosed bridge or sth. like this). In engineering standards, tunnels are not 
only dug structures but also completely enclosed linear ways with certain 
length (e.g. in Germany it’s from 80m onwards according to concrete standards, 
IIRR), which can also in exceptional cases lead over a bridge.

Cheers Martin 



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Warin]

On 5/6/20 10:45 pm, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
if water goes under a bridge, why in the ID  editor is it pictured on 
top of the bridge,

when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add tunnel ?


Is the 'layer=*' tagged correctly???

The item 'on top' should have a layer tag that is greater than the 
underlying feature.



Usually the river/stream has no layer tag .. meaning it defaults to layer=0.

The bridge should then be tagged layer=1.




A tunnel is not a bridge.


To me,

a tunnel has earth/rock on top of it.

a bridge has no earth/rock immediately under it. (Yes a bridge can be 
made out of rock - but that then is the bridge structure so not under 
neath the bridge itself).



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Martin Constantino–Bodin]

then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge is added.


Hi,

Do you have an example (way number or position) so we can investigate 
the issue?


Regards,
Martin.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[80hnhtv4agou--- via talk]

then why is the picture on top of the bridge when bridge is added.
  
>Friday, June 5, 2020 8:46 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
>:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Jun 5, 2020, 14:45 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
>>if water goes under a bridge, why in the ID  editor is it pictured on top of 
>>the bridge,
>Is layer tag set correctly?
>> 
>>when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add tunnel ?   
>> 
>No, if it is under bridge then mapping it as a tunnel (culvert) is incorrect.
> 
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk 
 
 
 
 ___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Mateusz Konieczny via talk]

Jun 5, 2020, 14:45 by talk@openstreetmap.org:

> if water goes under a bridge, why in the ID  editor is it pictured on top of 
> the bridge,
>
Is layer tag set correctly?

>  
> when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add tunnel ?   
>  
>
No, if it is under bridge then mapping it as a tunnel (culvert) is incorrect.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] river - stream

[Dave F via talk]

On 05/06/2020 13:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:



when the river stream comes to the bridge can you split and add tunnel ?


There can't be both a tunnel and bridge. It's one or the other. This 
goes for all scenarios, including roads.


DaveF

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk