Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Inge Wallin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In some places the streets are very short. This makes it difficult to show > the name of the street in full. However, for most street names there exist a > short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street) or > Barvägen (Bar road). These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in > commercial maps. > > It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like: > > name=Foovägen > name:sh=Foov (or name:short) > > *and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is applicable. > The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it. > > An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common > abbreviations like: > > road: rd > street: str > vägen: v (swedish) > gatan: g (swedish) > Straße: str (german) > ...etc I think the rendering decisions should be left up to the renderers, where possible, rather than adding extra tags. It's not inconceivable, for example, for the length of the displayed road to be calculated and the name shortened where possible using a lookup table as you suggest. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
> In some places the streets are very short. This makes it difficult to > show > the name of the street in full. However, for most street names there > exist a > short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street) or > Barvägen (Bar road). These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in > commercial maps. > > It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like: > > name=Foovägen > name:sh=Foov (or name:short) > name:sh is not a good idea, because there could be a language whose code is "sh". How about short_name? This could also be localised like short_name:en, short_name:sv etc. I'm already using short_name for abbreviations of building names on the Bayreuth university campus. > *and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is > applicable. > The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it. > > An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common > abbreviations like: > > road: rd > street: str > vägen: v (swedish) > gatan: g (swedish) > Straße: str (german) > ...etc > > Is this feasible or will it remain just a pipe dream? I find that always > using > the long names make the maps more difficult to use in practice. > > -Inge > Regards, Marc -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Inge Wallin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common > abbreviations like: > > road: rd > street: str > vägen: v (swedish) > gatan: g (swedish) > Straße: str (german) > ...etc This is absolutely the way to do it, and is why we recommend tagging with the full names. Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
Indeed. On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Pieren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > such table already exists for the name finder: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Name_finder:Abbreviations > Pieren > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Andy Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Inge Wallin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > In some places the streets are very short. This makes it difficult to >> > show >> > the name of the street in full. However, for most street names there >> > exist a >> > short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street) >> > or >> > Barvägen (Bar road). These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in >> > commercial maps. >> > >> > It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like: >> > >> > name=Foovägen >> > name:sh=Foov (or name:short) >> > >> > *and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is >> > applicable. >> > The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it. >> > >> > An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common >> > abbreviations like: >> > >> > road: rd >> > street: str >> > vägen: v (swedish) >> > gatan: g (swedish) >> > Straße: str (german) >> > ...etc >> >> I think the rendering decisions should be left up to the renderers, >> where possible, rather than adding extra tags. It's not inconceivable, >> for example, for the length of the displayed road to be calculated and >> the name shortened where possible using a lookup table as you suggest. >> >> Cheers, >> Andy >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Andy Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Inge Wallin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In some places the streets are very short. This makes it difficult to > show > > the name of the street in full. However, for most street names there > exist a > > short form. In swedish most names are of the form Foogatan (Foo street) > or > > Barvägen (Bar road). These are often shortened to Foog. or Barv. in > > commercial maps. > > > > It would be nice if we could tag this in OSM with something like: > > > > name=Foovägen > > name:sh=Foov (or name:short) > > > > *and* that the renderers would take this into account where it is > applicable. > > The whole scheme is irrelevant if the renderers don't use it. > > > > An alternative would be that the renderers have a table of common > > abbreviations like: > > > > road: rd > > street: str > > vägen: v (swedish) > > gatan: g (swedish) > > Straße: str (german) > > ...etc > > I think the rendering decisions should be left up to the renderers, > where possible, rather than adding extra tags. It's not inconceivable, > for example, for the length of the displayed road to be calculated and > the name shortened where possible using a lookup table as you suggest. > > Cheers, > Andy > It might be nice to be able to provide explicit hints, though. Garmin GPS devices have a mechanism where you can insert special characters in the label of a street, etc. to indicate that parts of the label before or after that special character can be hidden at lower zooms. That means, for example, that you could hide the "Street" or "Drive" suffix so that it only shows the base name if there isn't room for the entire name. In most cases we could probably sort that out automatically, but I'm sure somebody could think of examples where it would fail. So it would be nice to be able to look for hints first, then fall back to the default processing for shortening names. This could work with European/Scandanavian shortenings, too, such as the OP mentioned. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:17:04 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote:
> This is absolutely the way to do it
and it works for the general case, but not if you have a maze of short
streets with long names even when you shorten them that way.
These do require a method to specify short, and possibly shorter,
variations.
Annoying example:
Alexander-von-Humboldt-Straße => Alexander-von-Humboldt-Str (that's
automagic) => Alexander-v.-Humboldt-Str (that too, if you're good)
=> Alex.-v.-Humboldt-Str => A.-v.-Humboldt-Str => A-v-Humb.-Str =>
AvHumb-S (probably too much, but ...)
Of course I don't recommend that everybody hack all of these into their
maps, but if you do notice that the mappers skip too many street names
because they don't fit, going back and adding a few short versions
is *much* better than a map which omits half the names.
Thus, IMHO a multivalued short_name=* attribute would be a Good Thing.
--
Matthias Urlichs | {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
- -
"Maybe we can get together and show off to each other sometimes."
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Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
>name:sh is not a good idea, because there could be a language whose code >is "sh". How about short_name? This could also be localized like >short_name:en, short_name:sv etc. >I'm already using short_name for abbreviations of building names on the >Bayreuth university campus. I don't like the idea of the short_name tag for common names. The rendering engine should be configured to shorten abbreviations like road, street, vägen, gatan, Straße or what ever by itself. This is much more sufficient then adding the tags one by one. That gives everyone the chance to choose for them selfs if they like to shorten a name or not. This is especially important when you can shorten more then one thing in one name. For example Sankt Ingbert Straße could be shortened: St. Ingbert Straße Sankt Ingbert Str. St. Ingbert Str. So which one would be the short name you put in right now? Usually you would put in St. Ingbert Straße but this is certainly not the shortest but St. Ingbert Str. is an absolutely uncommon used version of the name but maybe usefull if the street is very short. I believe that the rendering engine should be responsible for shorting names ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
2008/6/25 wer-ist-roger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I don't like the idea of the short_name tag for common names. The rendering > engine should be configured to shorten abbreviations like road, street, > vägen, gatan, Straße or what ever by itself. This is much more sufficient > then adding the tags one by one. That gives everyone the chance to choose for > them selfs if they like to shorten a name or not. This is especially > important when you can shorten more then one thing in one name. For example > Sankt Ingbert Straße could be shortened: .. > > I believe that the rendering engine should be responsible for shorting names i think he was referring to the bits that can't be shortened automatically, for instance shortening "Karangahape Road" (in auckland) to "K' Road" as it's also known or shortening "Durham" of "Durham Lane East" (also akl) to "Dur" (because the street's very short, and we can't fit all the full name in) by hand, and letting software rules shorten Lane to Ln and East to E. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 3:37 AM, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/6/25 wer-ist-roger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I don't like the idea of the short_name tag for common names. The > rendering > > engine should be configured to shorten abbreviations like road, street, > > vägen, gatan, Straße or what ever by itself. This is much more sufficient > > then adding the tags one by one. That gives everyone the chance to choose > for > > them selfs if they like to shorten a name or not. This is especially > > important when you can shorten more then one thing in one name. For > example > > Sankt Ingbert Straße could be shortened: > .. > > > > I believe that the rendering engine should be responsible for shorting > names > > i think he was referring to the bits that can't be shortened > automatically, for instance shortening "Karangahape Road" (in > auckland) to "K' Road" as it's also known > > or shortening "Durham" of "Durham Lane East" (also akl) to "Dur" > (because the street's very short, and we can't fit all the full name > in) by hand, and letting software rules shorten Lane to Ln and East to > E. > The other problem is that shortening rules which work for one street (or region) won't necessarily work in another. As "wer-ist-roger" mentioned, Straße could be shortened to Str., which might be okay in some areas (or for certain streets) but not for others. Without a hint, the renderers (or other data consumers) won't know if a given shortening rule is okay to apply. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] short forms of street names
Karl Newman wrote: > > The other problem is that shortening rules which work for one street > (or region) won't necessarily work in another. As "wer-ist-roger" > mentioned, Straße could be shortened to Str., which might be okay in > some areas (or for certain streets) but not for others. Without a > hint, the renderers (or other data consumers) won't know if a given > shortening rule is okay to apply. > Yes, and the problem is that the "name" tag does not specify the language. So if the renderer is relying on the "name" tag (as opposed to , it doesn't really know which abbreviations to use in the lookup table. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Bilingual_street_names for more on this. Other than that I agree that the renderer should be responsible for such things, although I'm sure that hinting with tags will sometimes be necessary. I'll try to implement this shortening in Kosmos (probably using the Name finder:Abbreviations page as the lookup table). Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
