Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 7:18 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 31 January 2011 10:04, Grant Slater wrote: >> Frederik is also a member of the Data Working Group, along with >> myself, who have to deal with the consequences of people recklessly >> tracing in from inappropriate sources. >> Although a little different, see a recent case here: >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ec/2011-January/55.html > > Which leads back to Anthony's suggestion about a special build for > OSM-F with what ever filtering they deem appropriate, they could go so > far as to host some kind of config that JOSM interacts with *IF* and > only if the data is being uploaded to OSM-F's API address. Yes, with a special build they could also allow JOSM to work with a Trusted Platform Module that could attest that the contributor had never checked a photograph to see whether or not a particular turn across a divided highway was possible - at least not using that computer. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On 31 January 2011 10:24, Ben Last wrote: > Not that I'm getting involved in this... but if there is to be a > multiplicity of servers, why not have the server provide a REST call* that > can be used by PL/JOSM (or anything else) to establish which tracing sources > are permitted for that server and which aren't? That way, the tools don't > need to cater for specific needs, they become more generall. +1 That's a better suggestion than a static config file. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
Not that I'm getting involved in this... but if there is to be a multiplicity of servers, why not have the server provide a REST call* that can be used by PL/JOSM (or anything else) to establish which tracing sources are permitted for that server and which aren't? That way, the tools don't need to cater for specific needs, they become more generall. cheers b (writing as just an interested software engineer for once) * Just returning a static file of filters, or the like, to make implementation simple. On 31 January 2011 08:18, John Smith wrote: > On 31 January 2011 10:04, Grant Slater > wrote: > > Frederik is also a member of the Data Working Group, along with > > myself, who have to deal with the consequences of people recklessly > > tracing in from inappropriate sources. > > Although a little different, see a recent case here: > > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ec/2011-January/55.html > > Which leads back to Anthony's suggestion about a special build for > OSM-F with what ever filtering they deem appropriate, they could go so > far as to host some kind of config that JOSM interacts with *IF* and > only if the data is being uploaded to OSM-F's API address. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Ben Last Development Manager nearmap.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On 31 January 2011 10:04, Grant Slater wrote: > Frederik is also a member of the Data Working Group, along with > myself, who have to deal with the consequences of people recklessly > tracing in from inappropriate sources. > Although a little different, see a recent case here: > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ec/2011-January/55.html Which leads back to Anthony's suggestion about a special build for OSM-F with what ever filtering they deem appropriate, they could go so far as to host some kind of config that JOSM interacts with *IF* and only if the data is being uploaded to OSM-F's API address. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On 30 January 2011 00:21, David Murn wrote: > So, what happens now? Has Frederik appointed himself as top-dog in the > JOSM project, above and beyond the maintainer? Frederik was the JOSM project maintainer for a number of years before he handed off to Dirk and others. He is also part of a small team which has commit access to the live JOSM source tree. Frederik is also a member of the Data Working Group, along with myself, who have to deal with the consequences of people recklessly tracing in from inappropriate sources. Although a little different, see a recent case here: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ec/2011-January/55.html Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
Sam Vekemans wrote: > It's a good think that potlatch2 doesn't restrict APIs :) > [...] > Oops, I mean restrict Imagery URLs. > ... sorry got carried away on the last message :) Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > If you wade through the whole conversation on the josm-dev mailing > list you would be aware that P2 does indeed prevent you from using any URL with the string "google" in it. Or, mu. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/JOSM-filtering-image-map-tile-URLs-tp5972714p5975776.html Sent from the Australia mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On 31 January 2011 08:02, Anthony wrote: > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Richard Weait wrote: >> You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery >> plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL >> blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was >> a few weeks ago?" > > The only proper answer to that question is "mu". > For everyone else confused by this, I was sent this: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/M/mu.html The correct answer to the classic trick question “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”. Assuming that you have no wife or you have never beaten your wife, the answer “yes” is wrong because it implies that you used to beat your wife and then stopped, but “no” is worse because it suggests that you have one and are still beating her. According to various Discordians and Douglas Hofstadter the correct answer is usually “mu”, a Japanese word alleged to mean “Your question cannot be answered because it depends on incorrect assumptions”. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Richard Weait wrote: > You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery > plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL > blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was > a few weeks ago?" The only proper answer to that question is "mu". ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:00:08 -0500 Richard Weait wrote: > For JOSM, the Java OpenStreetMap editor? Really? That's what you > are asking? > > from josm.openstreetmap.de > > "Java OpenStreetMap Editor ¶ > /svn/trunk/images/logo.png > JOSM is an editor for OpenStreetMap (OSM) written in Java 1.6. " > > Which seems to declare the core interest of the JOSM project pretty > clearly. If you wade through the whole conversation on the josm-dev mailing list you would be aware that Dirk uses it for other data and is encouraging others in his work life to do the same. Projects do change focus from their original aims, or expand their uses, and no one ever updates the "mission statement" bar changing the version number. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On 31 January 2011 03:00, Richard Weait wrote: > For JOSM, the Java OpenStreetMap editor? Really? That's what you are asking? > > from josm.openstreetmap.de > > "Java OpenStreetMap Editor ¶ > /svn/trunk/images/logo.png > JOSM is an editor for OpenStreetMap (OSM) written in Java 1.6. " > > Which seems to declare the core interest of the JOSM project pretty clearly. Yes and who was responsible for writing such things, perhaps they injected their own bias/agenda as a result? As for the name, that goes well beyond the current thread and I'm not going to go there. For some time now people have been using JOSM, either privately with xml files, or with their own private server, eg the African efforts due to poor bandwidth. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
Oops, I mean restrict Imagery URLs. ... sorry got carried away on the last message :) On 1/30/11, Sam Vekemans wrote: > CommonMap fosm, and perhaps wikimapia in the future, and anyone who > likes to use the great josm software. > ... I'm using it to convert .osm to .gpx and .osm to .img > > > After using shp-to-osm.jar, i use JOSM to work with the data > > > ... I should be able to trace what i like, and create what i want ... > never touching the osm-api. > > > Incase JOSM developers do decide to block 'outside world users' > qgis.org does exist, and it's a powerfull tool... So all is not lost. > > > It's a good think that potlatch2 doesn't restrict APIs :) > > > > cheers, > Sam > > On 1/30/11, John Smith wrote: >> On 31 January 2011 02:26, Richard Weait wrote: >>> You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery >>> plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL >>> blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was >>> a few weeks ago?" >> >> However David's point, and Anthony and mine and Dirks where, why >> should JOSM only support things that are applicable to OSM-F? >> >> Perhaps some other community out there doesn't care about Google's >> terms and conditions, why should it come down to baby sitting people? >> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> > > > -- > Twitter: @Acrosscanada > Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ > http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans > Skype: samvekemans > IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) > @Acrosscanadatrails > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:45 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 31 January 2011 02:26, Richard Weait wrote: >> You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery >> plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL >> blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was >> a few weeks ago?" > > However David's point, and Anthony and mine and Dirks where, why > should JOSM only support things that are applicable to OSM-F? > > Perhaps some other community out there doesn't care about Google's > terms and conditions, why should it come down to baby sitting people? For JOSM, the Java OpenStreetMap editor? Really? That's what you are asking? from josm.openstreetmap.de "Java OpenStreetMap Editor ¶ /svn/trunk/images/logo.png JOSM is an editor for OpenStreetMap (OSM) written in Java 1.6. " Which seems to declare the core interest of the JOSM project pretty clearly. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
CommonMap fosm, and perhaps wikimapia in the future, and anyone who likes to use the great josm software. ... I'm using it to convert .osm to .gpx and .osm to .img After using shp-to-osm.jar, i use JOSM to work with the data ... I should be able to trace what i like, and create what i want ... never touching the osm-api. Incase JOSM developers do decide to block 'outside world users' qgis.org does exist, and it's a powerfull tool... So all is not lost. It's a good think that potlatch2 doesn't restrict APIs :) cheers, Sam On 1/30/11, John Smith wrote: > On 31 January 2011 02:26, Richard Weait wrote: >> You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery >> plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL >> blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was >> a few weeks ago?" > > However David's point, and Anthony and mine and Dirks where, why > should JOSM only support things that are applicable to OSM-F? > > Perhaps some other community out there doesn't care about Google's > terms and conditions, why should it come down to baby sitting people? > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On 31 January 2011 02:26, Richard Weait wrote: > You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery > plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL > blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was > a few weeks ago?" However David's point, and Anthony and mine and Dirks where, why should JOSM only support things that are applicable to OSM-F? Perhaps some other community out there doesn't care about Google's terms and conditions, why should it come down to baby sitting people? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 7:21 PM, David Murn wrote: > On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 23:51 +1000, John Smith wrote: >> Thankfully the main author of the software seems to want a more >> general editor, not just one that works with OSM specific APIs etc. > > This makes me wonder. Dirk has stated that he does not want the feature > implemented, while Frederik has stated that he has already implemented > it. > > Is that not the rudest form of vandalism in OSM (even worse than > vandalising a part of the map)? Oh dear. You've whipped yourself into a frenzy on this. No. This is a case of two respected committers to a project disagreeing on the best response to a bug. Happens all the time. And they are discussing it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 8:51 AM, John Smith wrote: > I was sent a link to this thread on the JOSM dev mailing list: > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/josm-dev/2011-January/005185.html > > The jist is some people are pushing to put URL filtering into JOSM, > currently the discussion is focused on Google images/tiles however it > wouldn't take much of a leap for things to also block Nearmap URLs > since those pushing for this change seem to want to make JOSM > difficult to use for anything but OSM allowed sources. > > Thankfully the main author of the software seems to want a more > general editor, not just one that works with OSM specific APIs etc. You aren't addressing the core question. "Given that the new imagery plugin has made it much simpler to accidentally infringe, is a URL blacklist a suitable way to raise that barrier closer to where it was a few weeks ago?" Why not participate in the conversation? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM filtering image/map tile URLs
On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 20:58 -0500, Anthony wrote: > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 7:21 PM, David Murn wrote: > > On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 23:51 +1000, John Smith wrote:>> Thankfully the main > > author of the software seems to want a more > >> general editor, not just one that works with OSM specific APIs etc. > > > > This makes me wonder. Dirk has stated that he does not want the feature > > implemented, while Frederik has stated that he has already implemented > > it. > > > > Is that not the rudest form of vandalism in OSM (even worse than > > vandalising a part of the map)? > > To be fair, Frederik had already made the changes before Dirk stated > that he didn't want them. Isnt it (maybe an unwritten) OSM policy that for a significant change, it should be talked about before making the change, rather than after? That would mean that Frederik's actions didnt just go against the maintainers wishes (who he didnt even ask about first seemingly), but also against the basis of which all major changes are made in OSM? So its not just vandalism against the package maintainer's position, its vandalism against the OSM policies. Isnt that why such policies are in-place, to prevent people making changes and dealing with complaints afterwards..? Its better to have the problems addressed before any change is made, and it can be implemented properly rather than a half hack that Frederik has done to achieve a certain goal. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
