Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[David Wales]

This is a good point.

Is there a moderator who could check if something like this is the case?

Regards,
David

On 2 October 2019 10:46:00 pm AEST, Mateusz Konieczny  
wrote:
>
>
>2 Oct 2019, 09:19 by e...@mapillary.com:
>
>> For the health of the mailing list, it would make sense to limit his
>communications so we're not bombarded daily with his emails.
>>
>Volume is not the biggest problem -
>and it would be probably acceptable.
>
>For me main problem is "fire and forget"
>mode.
>
>Is he even reading replies?
>
>Maybe he is unable to respond because
>he had monthly digest or something
>similarly problematic?
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[Mateusz Konieczny]

2 Oct 2019, 09:19 by e...@mapillary.com:

> For the health of the mailing list, it would make sense to limit his 
> communications so we're not bombarded daily with his emails.
>
Volume is not the biggest problem -
and it would be probably acceptable.

For me main problem is "fire and forget"
mode.

Is he even reading replies?

Maybe he is unable to respond because
he had monthly digest or something
similarly problematic?___
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[Edoardo Neerhut]

Frederik, the mailing list has been very patient and responsive to every
email Herbert has sent. They have provided many thoughtful and positive
responses and suggestions on how he can engage with the mailing list.

There has been no response from him.

For the health of the mailing list, it would make sense to limit his
communications so we're not bombarded daily with his emails. Herbert if you
wish to respond and acknowledge this email, please do prove me wrong. The
community welcomes new OpenStreetMappers.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 17:11, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Ewen,
>
> thank you for trying to be constructive in this matter. Herbert seems to
> have considerable difficulties with the medium It sounds like he has
> been collecting issues for a while and now tries to resolve them all at
> once, which can overload the capacity of the mailing list for reasonable
> discussion, as well as his own.
>
> Reaching out in the way you have done it here is commendable and I hope
> that Herbert will take you up on the offer. I would like to appeal to
> those who are already calling for a "mailing list ban" to have more
> patience. Mailing lists can be difficult to handle for someone who is
> new to the game and has perhaps spent a lifetime using other, more
> formalised forms of communication. Yes, there can be times when we need
> to kick someone out because productive discussion is not possible, but I
> feel that it we should try and be welcoming even to people who don't
> "get" us at their first attempt. They can turn out to be valuable
> members of the community, bringing different views to the table and
> broadening our horizon.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[Frederik Ramm]

Ewen,

thank you for trying to be constructive in this matter. Herbert seems to
have considerable difficulties with the medium It sounds like he has
been collecting issues for a while and now tries to resolve them all at
once, which can overload the capacity of the mailing list for reasonable
discussion, as well as his own.

Reaching out in the way you have done it here is commendable and I hope
that Herbert will take you up on the offer. I would like to appeal to
those who are already calling for a "mailing list ban" to have more
patience. Mailing lists can be difficult to handle for someone who is
new to the game and has perhaps spent a lifetime using other, more
formalised forms of communication. Yes, there can be times when we need
to kick someone out because productive discussion is not possible, but I
feel that it we should try and be welcoming even to people who don't
"get" us at their first attempt. They can turn out to be valuable
members of the community, bringing different views to the table and
broadening our horizon.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[Joshua Brown via Talk-au]

+1 to the above on these emails.

Happy to support either a ban or education on mailing list practice.

-Josh


> On 2 Oct 2019, at 4:32 pm, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
> 
> +1 this is getting absurd.
> 
> What is the process for mailing list ban?
> 
> 2 Oct 2019, 01:40 by e...@mapillary.com:
> +1 to what Ewen said.
> 
> If we don't hear back from you I am in favour of blocking your emails. 
> 
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 09:39, Ewen Hill  > wrote:
> Herbert,
> Can we slow down a little and finalise one of these items and then move 
> on to the next please. We don't get much feedback from you after a number of 
> us have offered suggestions. There are no "thanks", no, "If you look at this 
> relation/way then this appears different". 
> 
> I would be only too happy to discuss offline some of your issues in a 
> Skype or email or any other method you wish. I, along with others would like 
> to know what the end game is. Are you doing a paper on OSM or are you a 
> committed editor or new to OSM. A lot of your questions could be answered by 
> Google or via the vast amount of information in the Wiki.
> 
>   I look forward to hearing from you off the list.
> 
> Ewen
> 
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 09:23, Herbert.Remi via Talk-au 
> mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
> # Discussion H: public transport – the end game
> 
> Bus routes (relations) were changed in the ACT in 2019 with the introduction 
> of Civic to Gungahlin light rail, effective 29 April 2019. The bus network in 
> Canberra changed from a mesh network (bumble buses) to a “hub and spoke” 
> system, the “Rapid” bus network. Now, fast buses connect town centres and you 
> change for local connections. This was a radical change with many bus routes 
> being abolished and news one established. The new “spoke” routes are name R1, 
> R2, … to R10. The route R1 is not a bus route at all but the Civic to 
> Gungahlin light rail.
> 
> Summary of changes required to OSM relations:
> - Many routes deleted
> - New routes added
> - Nomenclature of all routes changed.
> 
> Resources
> 1. A detailed, folded poster map that shows all the new routes. I am aware 
> this is almost useless for the online community. Locals can get a copy for 
> free.
> *Canberra Transport Guide: your guide to Canberra’s bus and light rail 
> network*, Transport Canberra, 2019.
> 2. A DINA4 overview map of the Rapid bus network can be found on the ACT 
> Government website for a map.
> https://www.transport.act.gov.au/getting-around/timetables/routes-by-number 
> 
> 3. The Transport Canberra website has a wealth of information about the bus 
> network in general.
> https://www.transport.act.gov.au/ 
> 
> 
> QUESTION
> An audit and possible correction of all bus routes are required, similar to 
> the audit of all bike routes (discussion G). Some routes may have been 
> changed already and others are forgotten.
> **How to do this?**
> I am hoping that somebody may have experience with this sort of problem in 
> other cities.
> 
> I welcome your comments.
> keywords: Australia, ACT, bus network, ACT Government, TCCS, light rail, 
> relation, public transport
> ___
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> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Warm Regards
> 
> Ewen Hill
> Internet Development Australia
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au 
> 
> ___
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[Mateusz Konieczny]

+1 this is getting absurd.

What is the process for mailing list ban?
2 Oct 2019, 01:40 by e...@mapillary.com:

> +1 to what Ewen said.
>
> If we don't hear back from you I am in favour of blocking your emails. 
>
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 09:39, Ewen Hill <> ewen.h...@gmail.com 
> > > wrote:
>
>> Herbert,
>>     Can we slow down a little and finalise one of these items and then move 
>> on to the next please. We don't get much feedback from you after a number of 
>> us have offered suggestions. There are no "thanks", no, "If you look at this 
>> relation/way then this appears different". 
>>
>>     I would be only too happy to discuss offline some of your issues in a 
>> Skype or email or any other method you wish. I, along with others would like 
>> to know what the end game is. Are you doing a paper on OSM or are you a 
>> committed editor or new to OSM. A lot of your questions could be answered by 
>> Google or via the vast amount of information in the Wiki.
>>
>>   I look forward to hearing from you off the list.
>>
>> Ewen
>>
>> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 09:23, Herbert.Remi via Talk-au <>> 
>> talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> > wrote:
>>
>>> # Discussion H: public transport – the end game
>>>
>>> Bus routes (relations) were changed in the ACT in 2019 with the 
>>> introduction of Civic to Gungahlin light rail, effective 29 April 2019. The 
>>> bus network in Canberra changed from a mesh network (bumble buses) to a 
>>> “hub and spoke” system, the “Rapid” bus network. Now, fast buses connect 
>>> town centres and you change for local connections. This was a radical 
>>> change with many bus routes being abolished and news one established. The 
>>> new “spoke” routes are name R1, R2, … to R10. The route R1 is not a bus 
>>> route at all but the Civic to Gungahlin light rail.
>>>
>>> Summary of changes required to OSM relations:
>>> - Many routes deleted
>>> - New routes added
>>> - Nomenclature of all routes changed.
>>>
>>> Resources
>>> 1. A detailed, folded poster map that shows all the new routes. I am aware 
>>> this is almost useless for the online community. Locals can get a copy for 
>>> free.
>>> *Canberra Transport Guide: your guide to Canberra’s bus and light rail 
>>> network*, Transport Canberra, 2019.
>>> 2. A DINA4 overview map of the Rapid bus network can be found on the ACT 
>>> Government website for a map.
>>> https://www.transport.act.gov.au/getting-around/timetables/routes-by-number 
>>> 
>>> 3. The Transport Canberra website has a wealth of information about the bus 
>>> network in general.
>>> https://www.transport.act.gov.au/ 
>>>
>>>
>>> QUESTION
>>> An audit and possible correction of all bus routes are required, similar to 
>>> the audit of all bike routes (discussion G). Some routes may have been 
>>> changed already and others are forgotten.
>>> **How to do this?**
>>> I am hoping that somebody may have experience with this sort of problem in 
>>> other cities.
>>>
>>> I welcome your comments.
>>> keywords: Australia, ACT, bus network, ACT Government, TCCS, light rail, 
>>> relation, public transport
>>> ___
>>>  Talk-au mailing list
>>>  >>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org 
>>>  >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au 
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Warm Regards
>>
>> Ewen Hill
>> Internet Development Australia
>> ___
>>  Talk-au mailing list
>>  >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org 
>>  >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au 
>> 
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[Edoardo Neerhut]

+1 to what Ewen said.

If we don't hear back from you I am in favour of blocking your emails.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 09:39, Ewen Hill  wrote:

> Herbert,
> Can we slow down a little and finalise one of these items and then
> move on to the next please. We don't get much feedback from you after a
> number of us have offered suggestions. There are no "thanks", no, "If you
> look at this relation/way then this appears different".
>
> I would be only too happy to discuss offline some of your issues in a
> Skype or email or any other method you wish. I, along with others would
> like to know what the end game is. Are you doing a paper on OSM or are you
> a committed editor or new to OSM. A lot of your questions could be answered
> by Google or via the vast amount of information in the Wiki.
>
>   I look forward to hearing from you off the list.
>
> Ewen
>
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 09:23, Herbert.Remi via Talk-au <
> talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> # Discussion H: public transport – the end game
>>
>> Bus routes (relations) were changed in the ACT in 2019 with the
>> introduction of Civic to Gungahlin light rail, effective 29 April 2019. The
>> bus network in Canberra changed from a mesh network (bumble buses) to a
>> “hub and spoke” system, the “Rapid” bus network. Now, fast buses connect
>> town centres and you change for local connections. This was a radical
>> change with many bus routes being abolished and news one established. The
>> new “spoke” routes are name R1, R2, … to R10. The route R1 is not a bus
>> route at all but the Civic to Gungahlin light rail.
>>
>> Summary of changes required to OSM relations:
>> - Many routes deleted
>> - New routes added
>> - Nomenclature of all routes changed.
>>
>> Resources
>> 1. A detailed, folded poster map that shows all the new routes. I am
>> aware this is almost useless for the online community. Locals can get a
>> copy for free.
>> *Canberra Transport Guide: your guide to Canberra’s bus and light rail
>> network*, Transport Canberra, 2019.
>> 2. A DINA4 overview map of the Rapid bus network can be found on the ACT
>> Government website for a map.
>>
>> https://www.transport.act.gov.au/getting-around/timetables/routes-by-number
>> 3. The Transport Canberra website has a wealth of information about the
>> bus network in general.
>> https://www.transport.act.gov.au/
>>
>>
>> QUESTION
>> An audit and possible correction of all bus routes are required, similar
>> to the audit of all bike routes (discussion G). Some routes may have been
>> changed already and others are forgotten.
>> **How to do this?**
>> I am hoping that somebody may have experience with this sort of problem
>> in other cities.
>>
>> I welcome your comments.
>> keywords: Australia, ACT, bus network, ACT Government, TCCS, light rail,
>> relation, public transport
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
>
> --
> Warm Regards
>
> Ewen Hill
> Internet Development Australia
> ___
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Discussion H: public transport – the end game

[Ewen Hill]

Herbert,
Can we slow down a little and finalise one of these items and then move
on to the next please. We don't get much feedback from you after a number
of us have offered suggestions. There are no "thanks", no, "If you look at
this relation/way then this appears different".

I would be only too happy to discuss offline some of your issues in a
Skype or email or any other method you wish. I, along with others would
like to know what the end game is. Are you doing a paper on OSM or are you
a committed editor or new to OSM. A lot of your questions could be answered
by Google or via the vast amount of information in the Wiki.

  I look forward to hearing from you off the list.

Ewen

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 09:23, Herbert.Remi via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> # Discussion H: public transport – the end game
>
> Bus routes (relations) were changed in the ACT in 2019 with the
> introduction of Civic to Gungahlin light rail, effective 29 April 2019. The
> bus network in Canberra changed from a mesh network (bumble buses) to a
> “hub and spoke” system, the “Rapid” bus network. Now, fast buses connect
> town centres and you change for local connections. This was a radical
> change with many bus routes being abolished and news one established. The
> new “spoke” routes are name R1, R2, … to R10. The route R1 is not a bus
> route at all but the Civic to Gungahlin light rail.
>
> Summary of changes required to OSM relations:
> - Many routes deleted
> - New routes added
> - Nomenclature of all routes changed.
>
> Resources
> 1. A detailed, folded poster map that shows all the new routes. I am aware
> this is almost useless for the online community. Locals can get a copy for
> free.
> *Canberra Transport Guide: your guide to Canberra’s bus and light rail
> network*, Transport Canberra, 2019.
> 2. A DINA4 overview map of the Rapid bus network can be found on the ACT
> Government website for a map.
> https://www.transport.act.gov.au/getting-around/timetables/routes-by-number
> 3. The Transport Canberra website has a wealth of information about the
> bus network in general.
> https://www.transport.act.gov.au/
>
>
> QUESTION
> An audit and possible correction of all bus routes are required, similar
> to the audit of all bike routes (discussion G). Some routes may have been
> changed already and others are forgotten.
> **How to do this?**
> I am hoping that somebody may have experience with this sort of problem in
> other cities.
>
> I welcome your comments.
> keywords: Australia, ACT, bus network, ACT Government, TCCS, light rail,
> relation, public transport
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>


-- 
Warm Regards

Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia
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