Re: [talk-au] definition of PSV (Public Service Vehicles) in Australia
> On Jun 26, 2022, at 6:46 PM, Dian Ågesson wrote: > Unfortunately bus lane restrictions are not the same in each state and > territory. > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Transportation. > As there isn't a consistent delineation about what counts as a public service > vehicle in each state and territory, it'd probably be better to err on the > side of specific access tagging rather than relying on a state/territory > default. For David's case, I think a tag of taxi=yes would be prudent. I suspected as much, having recently read exactly that wiki. OK, at least we've "talked about things" and I think it's largely / all sealed up that Australia needs "certain packaging tape" to wrap around things (as they are). That's not terrible, and it seems you have a place to document these "trimmings." So, yeah, great. See you in the wiki. Maybe a link to this thread couldn't hurt. It's all good. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] definition of PSV (Public Service Vehicles) in Australia
Hi all, Unfortunately bus lane restrictions are not the same in each state and territory. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Transportation. As there isn't a consistent delineation about what counts as a public service vehicle in each state and territory, it'd probably be better to err on the side of specific access tagging rather than relying on a state/territory default. For David's case, I think a tag of taxi=yes would be prudent. Dian On 2022-06-27 01:24, Ben Kelley wrote: Hi. I'm not sure if this helps, but a "bus lane" allows buses, taxis, bicycles and hire cars. A "bus only lane" allows only buses (not taxis and hire cars). (Neither allow rental cars.) The psv wiki page suggests tagging individual types if necessary, but implies that a taxi is a PSV. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:psv I think you should probably put taxi=no for a "bus only lane" but not for a "bus lane". IANAL but I'd guess that ride share services are not taxis in this context. - Ben. On 27/6/2022 11:10 am, stevea wrote: On Jun 26, 2022, at 5:57 PM, David Vidovic via Talk-au wrote: In regards to PSV (Public Service Vehicles), I understand this encompasses buses/coaches. For a "bus only" way such as a bus bay, I see common tagging [access=no] + [psv=yes] used. Does anyone know if a Taxi is considered a "public service vehicle" and therefore able use the busy bay way? Or does [access=no] inherently prevent this and it would need a separate [taxi=yes] tag? It might be controversial to say so, but "taxis" meant (until maybe a decade ago, with the uprising of the Uber's of the world, which are, in many places, "not _de jure_ taxis" but are rather "_de facto_ taxis") a legally-regulated car-for-hire (not "rental, YOU drive," rather "hail one" (or solicit a ride for a fare at a taxi stand)). ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] definition of PSV (Public Service Vehicles) in Australia
On Jun 26, 2022, at 6:24 PM, Ben Kelley wrote: > I'm not sure if this helps, but a "bus lane" allows buses, taxis, bicycles > and hire cars. A "bus only lane" allows only buses (not taxis and hire cars). > (Neither allow rental cars.) > > The psv wiki page suggests tagging individual types if necessary, but implies > that a taxi is a PSV. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:psv > > I think you should probably put taxi=no for a "bus only lane" but not for a > "bus lane". > > IANAL but I'd guess that ride share services are not taxis in this context. I'd say a "municipal" taxi, that is, one regulated by municipal and/or state law, often requiring a "medallion" (an "award" by the driver that bonding, knowledge...requirements are met, often in accordance with state law) IS part of what might be allowed in a "bus lane" (though, I agree not a "bus only" lane). However, an Uber/Lyft/whatever, no. Thank you for understanding we are not talking about "cars for hire" what in the USA is called a "rental car." Good to have international dialog about this; some of the issues are a bit subtle. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] definition of PSV (Public Service Vehicles) in Australia
Hi. I'm not sure if this helps, but a "bus lane" allows buses, taxis, bicycles and hire cars. A "bus only lane" allows only buses (not taxis and hire cars). (Neither allow rental cars.) The psv wiki page suggests tagging individual types if necessary, but implies that a taxi is a PSV. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:psv I think you should probably put taxi=no for a "bus only lane" but not for a "bus lane". IANAL but I'd guess that ride share services are not taxis in this context. - Ben. On 27/6/2022 11:10 am, stevea wrote: On Jun 26, 2022, at 5:57 PM, David Vidovic via Talk-au wrote: In regards to PSV (Public Service Vehicles), I understand this encompasses buses/coaches. For a "bus only" way such as a bus bay, I see common tagging [access=no] + [psv=yes] used. Does anyone know if a Taxi is considered a "public service vehicle" and therefore able use the busy bay way? Or does [access=no] inherently prevent this and it would need a separate [taxi=yes] tag? It might be controversial to say so, but "taxis" meant (until maybe a decade ago, with the uprising of the Uber's of the world, which are, in many places, "not /de jure/ taxis" but are rather "/de facto/ taxis") a legally-regulated car-for-hire (not "rental, YOU drive," rather "hail one" (or solicit a ride for a fare at a taxi stand)). ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] definition of PSV (Public Service Vehicles) in Australia
On Jun 26, 2022, at 5:57 PM, David Vidovic via Talk-au wrote: > In regards to PSV (Public Service Vehicles), I understand this encompasses > buses/coaches. > > For a "bus only" way such as a bus bay, I see common tagging [access=no] + > [psv=yes] used. > > Does anyone know if a Taxi is considered a "public service vehicle" and > therefore able use the busy bay way? Or does [access=no] inherently prevent > this and it would need a separate [taxi=yes] tag? It might be controversial to say so, but "taxis" meant (until maybe a decade ago, with the uprising of the Uber's of the world, which are, in many places, "not de jure taxis" but are rather "de facto taxis") a legally-regulated car-for-hire (not "rental, YOU drive," rather "hail one" (or solicit a ride for a fare at a taxi stand)). A bus is clearly a "municipal vehicle" (public service vehicle, or some widely-agreed upon flavor). A "taxi," well, if it isn't what we used to call a "yellow cab" (sometimes municipal, sometimes a "charter contract" medallion-holding, regulated by both state- and municipal-level government oversight / regulation), it might be an Uber or Lyft, or whatever. I realize that's a "rabbit hole" down which this tag / semantic goes, but I don't want the distinctions to be ignored. As to whether "bus bay" includes "taxis," well, I wouldn't say so. "Around here" (northern California, USA), we have "separate" infrastructure for these: different lanes, different rules, different expectations by the users of the transportation service. Careful: this is a wide semantic. I realize I cross the "in the States" and / "down under" boundary (being from USA, yet posting to talk-au), yet, OSM is a global project. True, you can make regional exceptions to tagging, but I'm just saying: be careful. So far, so good.___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
