Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[Jo]

2012/12/24 A.Pirard.Papou 

>  On 2012-12-23 22:21, Jo wrote :
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> The easiest way is to simply add addr:housenumber nodes. It's hard to do
> anything wrong with that.
>
> If the building is an area, it's a good idea to put the number on a node
> instead of on the way, so that it doesn't fight with the restaurant name
> for room inside the area.  Plenty of examples around 
> here.
> But you may prefer not to tag for the renderer ;-)
>
> One step further is to add addr:interpolation vectors. Add the numbers on
> the streetcorners and the special cases like 5A (also add 5 and 6 in that
> case) and a way in between.
>
> This recalls me when I built my house.  The numbers next were 1 and 3.
> Went to the adm and explained that.
> - no problem, you'll get n°2
> - (surprised that n°2 isn't opposite) OK, but there are two houses between
> 1 and 3
> - no problem, you'll get n° 2A, see in the box, 2A and 2B are prepared
> - OK, but my house is the second one
> - no problem, you get n° 2B, then
> No problem, OSM did not exist yet, because it lasted a few years until all
> the house were renumbered and the place name changed, some persons were in
> another street too.
>

Normally one would expect 5A, 5B, etc to be between 5 and 7, but I have
found streets where 1A and 1B come before 1. It all depends on which houses
were built first, I presume.

Jo
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur & Luxembourg

[A.Pirard.Papou]

On 2012-12-23 23:00, Marc Gemis wrote :

For your own favorite walks, cycle routes etc you can use either

GPSies.org or wikiloc.org 


Thanks. OSM and, ouch, GoogleMaps.
www.openrunner.com   uses both + IGN in France.
But you'll get surprises if you try to walk on OSM.  Choose a path and 
it'll route you through roads.
You'll finally notice that, although it displays OSM it routes based on 
GoogleMaps (without paths).

Contact support and they'll reply to read the doc.
Contact support to say that the doc mentions selecting Cloudmade routing 
but that there is no Cloudmade selection and support will no longer reply.


They would maybe care about OSM if we all requested Cloudmade routing as 
the doc promises.
Wait a number of days equal to your age so that all our e-mails do not 
arrive simultaneously ;-)


Cheers,

André.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[A.Pirard.Papou]

On 2012-12-23 22:21, Jo wrote :

Hi Chris,

The easiest way is to simply add addr:housenumber nodes. It's hard to 
do anything wrong with that.
If the building is an area, it's a good idea to put the number on a node 
instead of on the way, so that it doesn't fight with the restaurant name 
for room inside the area. Plenty of examples around here 
.  But you may prefer 
not to tag for the renderer ;-)
One step further is to add addr:interpolation vectors. Add the numbers 
on the streetcorners and the special cases like 5A (also add 5 and 6 
in that case) and a way in between.

This recalls me when I built my house.  The numbers next were 1 and 3.
Went to the adm and explained that.
- no problem, you'll get n°2
- (surprised that n°2 isn't opposite) OK, but there are two houses 
between 1 and 3

- no problem, you'll get n° 2A, see in the box, 2A and 2B are prepared
- OK, but my house is the second one
- no problem, you get n° 2B, then
No problem, OSM did not exist yet, because it lasted a few years until 
all the house were renumbered and the place name changed, some persons 
were in another street too.


Cheers,

André.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur & Luxembourg

[Marc Gemis]

For your own favorite walks, cycle routes etc you can use either

GPSies.org or wikiloc.org

m
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[Sander Deryckere]

Op 23 dec. 2012 21:00 schreef "Chris Van Bael" 
het volgende:
>
> On 23-dec.-2012, at 12:28, Sander Deryckere  wrote:
>
>> Now the street network is good as complete (we even have streets in the
DB that are still under construction). So we need to focus on other things.
Those things are (according to me):
>>
>>
>> Addresses including housenumbers
>> POI's including extra information s.a. opening hours
>> Extra info on roads (maxspeed, lanes ...)
>
>
> I've been lurking on this list for too long, but this message triggered
me.
> A few years ago I added a few streets in my neighbourhood, but indeed now
all the streets are in OSM, so more detailed info needs to be added.
> Problem is: I don't know how to do this in a decent way!
> And I'm very afraid to break something, or even worse do it in a bad way.
> There have been too many discussions on this list about bad conventions
used by others to give me confidence to add these things.

When you are adding stuff that can't be guessed from the area images, it's
hard to do something wrong. And when it's wrong, it's always easy to
correct.

So just do what you think is good, and if nobody tells you it is wrong,
that means you're doing great.

As long as you stay away from armchair mapping and batch editing, you will
never have to worry about these discussions (unless you really want ).

> What would help me (and others I believe), is that there are simple
tutorials to execute these things that clearly describe the conventions.

Maybe that's an idea, but a lot of users have their own preferred ways of
mapping, based on their favorite tools and available hardware. It's
difficult to find a standard in it.
>
> For the housenumbers for example : is there an easy way to add these
through my Android phone?
> Or how do you do this?
>
How I do it? If I am prepared, I have a printed map (at high zoom level,
via the walkingpapers service ) of the area I want to map, then I make
notes on it, and process them afterwards.

When I'm not prepared, I just use OSMtracker and make pictures of the
housenumbers and other features, when I come home, JOSM shows me where
these pictures were taken, and from the memory (and picture background ) I
know which house it is (left or right? First or second?).

I don't really like inputting data directly from my phone, but maybe that's
because I have an old, slow Android with a small screen.

> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>

>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[A.Pirard.Papou]

  
  
On 2012-12-22 15:23, Sander Deryckere
  wrote :

...
  Now, how many addresses would be missing. We can't assume Belgium
  has 11 million addresses, as many people live together. So I
  searched other data. The number of addresses in Belgium seems
  impossible to find, but I did find the number of families in
  Belgium: http://www.centrumvoorsociaalbeleid.be/indicatoren/index.php?q=node/176.
  I assume that the number of addresses must be about the same.
  There are addresses without families (like firms) and multiple
  families living in one apartment with one address (but often
  different post boxes). 

 (of
  course) is maintaining a database of the number of mailboxes per
  distribution area, so that the people doing mass mailing, like
  printers, know how many mail items to provide. 
It's free, but you need to subscribe here to access the service.
http://www.bpost.be/distripost/outil_de_reservation.html
http://www.bpost.be/distripost/reservatietool.html
This subscription, including receiving snail mail and a password,
looks like the business status of the requester is verified.  I'll
send by private e-mail to anyone requesting it within next week a
more descriptive French text written by a user for his customers.  I
could have a peek at the data and I can describe it as OSM valuable.

Also,
  I came across this file.  I couldn't find the same for other
municipalities, but it's format makes me think that it's data that
each administration must or should maintain and that it could be
available on request.  I could blast the PDF and get each street on
one line of t.txt.
perl -ne 'print if s/(\d+)\/(\d+) (.*?)\s+(\d+)$/$1,$2,$3,$4/' t.txt
> t.asc
did the rest and I pasted t.asc in a spreadsheet.
I made a additional column to contain the village/hamlet name and a
simple SUMIF per area is adding up the persons count for each of
them.

I welcome under this subject any feedback regarding both sources.

Given mailboxes and population counts, you might find that their
ratio is fairly constant, maybe after separating mainly urban vs
rural statistics.

How to map?
  
  There's also a lot of armchair mapping that can be done. First of
  all, all that streetnames that need to be added. People are better
  in guessing the right streetname, and if there's doubt, just add a
  fixme tag.

I often do that and I had just did it the day before you wrote
this.  www.restaurant indicated 6, street X and when I curiously
checked with GoogleMaps: it did not know the restaurant, located 6,
street X very far away from there and called street X street Y.
Conclusion: beware: some people don't know where they are living!!!
;-)
Next to that, if you see a restaurant on the map,
  without address data, just search the website of that restaurant
  and get the address data from there. You're doing nothing wrong,
  as long as you don't take the data from a database (such as the
  golden pages), you aren't violating any copyrights or database
  rights. While you're at the website of the restaurant, you can
  also add other information s.a. opening hours or phone number.

The scrupulous mind can get the number from the YP and phone the
restaurant to ask them their phone number.  Or you can learn the YP
by heart, and do the mapping two days after.  Or ask your wife to
look it up and phone it to the neighbor; he will probably phone back
and ask what's going on there.  Lots of ©less methods ;-)

I usually refrain from indicating phone numbers. There are already
so many problems with web addresses changes that could be easily
detected but are not cared for, that it's useless to add phone
number changes that cannot be detected.  I would give priority to
pop up a tip when the mouse hovers over the restaurant with a Web
link to click to see the rest.  I drew the attention of JOSM preset
writers that a Web address is often much wider that what's usually
called a Contact.

Happy Xmas, be it in street X or Y.


  

  André.

  



  

  

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[Jo]

Hi Chris,

The easiest way is to simply add addr:housenumber nodes. It's hard to do
anything wrong with that. For good measure add addr:street as well. On
Android you can use the latest version of Vespucci. It works quite well,
but it's not a lot of use without an internet connection (3G or WLAN).

One step further is to add addr:interpolation vectors. Add the numbers on
the streetcorners and the special cases like 5A (also add 5 and 6 in that
case) and a way in between.

I prefer to add addr:housenumber in 'the field' and do 'postprocessing'
afterwards. Drawing the buildings and adding them to associatedStreet
relations, but the most important part are those addr:housenumber nodes.
The rest can be done later, but that's the 'raw' data.

Jo

2012/12/23 Chris Van Bael 

> On 23-dec.-2012, at 12:28, Sander Deryckere  wrote:
>
> Now the street network is good as complete (we even have streets in the DB
> that are still under construction). So we need to focus on other things.
> Those things are (according to me):
>
>
>
>- Addresses including housenumbers
>- POI's including extra information s.a. opening hours
>- Extra info on roads (maxspeed, lanes ...)
>
>
> I've been lurking on this list for too long, but this message triggered me.
> A few years ago I added a few streets in my neighbourhood, but indeed now
> all the streets are in OSM, so more detailed info needs to be added.
> Problem is: I don't know how to do this in a decent way!
> And I'm very afraid to break something, or even worse do it in a bad way.
> There have been too many discussions on this list about bad conventions
> used by others to give me confidence to add these things.
> What would help me (and others I believe), is that there are simple
> tutorials to execute these things that clearly describe the conventions.
>
> For the housenumbers for example : is there an easy way to add these
> through my Android phone?
> Or how do you do this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[Chris Van Bael]

On 23-dec.-2012, at 12:28, Sander Deryckere  wrote:

> Now the street network is good as complete (we even have streets in the DB 
> that are still under construction). So we need to focus on other things. 
> Those things are (according to me):
> 
> Addresses including housenumbers
> POI's including extra information s.a. opening hours
> Extra info on roads (maxspeed, lanes ...)

I've been lurking on this list for too long, but this message triggered me.
A few years ago I added a few streets in my neighbourhood, but indeed now all 
the streets are in OSM, so more detailed info needs to be added.
Problem is: I don't know how to do this in a decent way!
And I'm very afraid to break something, or even worse do it in a bad way.
There have been too many discussions on this list about bad conventions used by 
others to give me confidence to add these things.
What would help me (and others I believe), is that there are simple tutorials 
to execute these things that clearly describe the conventions.

For the housenumbers for example : is there an easy way to add these through my 
Android phone?
Or how do you do this?

Thanks,

Chris

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[OSM-talk-be] Proxy tagging

[A.Pirard.Papou]

  
  
Hello,
  
  On 2012-11-28 22:38, XXX wrote :
  
  

  Limite de la zone 30 coté Hody: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.4979&lon=5.51367&zoom=18&layers=M

Limite coté Esneux:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.497855&lon=5.516169&zoom=18&layers=M

C'est ce que tu souhaites?


  
  This, among other requests, but not always replied, is what my
  friend answered when I asked him to determine the limits of the
  Zone30 near his home.  I recommend this method generally (not only
  for zone30).  Can also be described as distant tagging
  / robot tagging / 50% FAT (friend
  assisted tagging), you name it.
  
  Of course, the e-mail explaining the various ways to do it was
  rather long.  Jacques chose the method to click on the map.
  
  The information that someone can generally bring is much varied. 
  So, instead of rewriting the same long e-mails over and over again
  for each new request, I thought of a page of mine, and later of
  BE_OSM that would explain how a non-tagger can send information to
  tag in the many situations in which he can help.
  
  If you don't do that, you can read from volunteers things like
  that the one-way of a street must be reversed.  So, to prevent
  reverting it twice, it's necessary to advice to say "towards
  street X".
  

2012/11/28 A.Pirard.Papou 


  

   I started writing  this "Help us" general  page supposed to
  explain several things that the general
  Belgian can do to help our project. 

What do you think?
Should I continue this page?
Would you help?
  

  

The only reaction I received was negative.
Hence, I removed that page, sorry.

Google does not allow anyone to update the map directly.  It's wise
to prevent its destruction.
Proxy tagging resembles that.

Cheers, 


  

  André.

  




  

  


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur & Luxembourg

[Ben Laenen]

On Sunday 23 December 2012 16:05:36 Glenn Plas wrote:
> In my understanding if a route is digitally available (or digitally
> signposted as you so beautifully put that), it can be added.
> 
> One can easily 'invent' a route network, only it needs to have some kind
> of reference (a site, VZW) that maintains a description of it. Either
> digitally or physically.
> 
> I know a lot of official ones that are already in OSM that have no
> signposts but use references of others.  I must admit, I'm not a biker
> (anymore), but I live very close to some nodes here, I could take a look
> of what is still really there.

At the moment we're only mapping routes that are signposted in real life. 
Otherwise anyone can come up with their own network and before you know it the 
database is full of "User X favourite way to walk from school to home" etc.

Perhaps some project could jump up to cater for routes like this, but it 
should be separate from the OSM database.

Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur & Luxembourg

[Glenn Plas]

Don't become 'inventive' or 'creative'. We only map the routes that 
are signposted.


You can have a look in the list of my recent edits for examples. I'm 
working on rcn networks a lot.


Jo,

In my understanding if a route is digitally available (or digitally 
signposted as you so beautifully put that), it can be added.


One can easily 'invent' a route network, only it needs to have some kind 
of reference (a site, VZW) that maintains a description of it. Either 
digitally or physically.


I know a lot of official ones that are already in OSM that have no 
signposts but use references of others.  I must admit, I'm not a biker 
(anymore), but I live very close to some nodes here, I could take a look 
of what is still really there.


Glenn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur & Luxembourg

[Jo]

The numbered nodes get rcn_ref with the number as the value.

Then you create a relation for each of the routes in between with:

type=route
route=bicycle
network=rcn
note=xx-yy

To this relation you add all the ways to get from node xx to node yy, where
xx is the lower numbered node.

Then you can add all these nodes and route relations to another relation:

type=network
network=rcn
name=

Don't become 'inventive' or 'creative'. We only map the routes that are
signposted.

You can have a look in the list of my recent edits for examples. I'm
working on rcn networks a lot.

Jo

2012/12/23 A.Pirard.Papou 

>  On 2012-12-15 13:03, Jo wrote :
>
> (And thanks for writing that letter, your French is quite good!)
>
> Hi EeBie,
>
> That's great news! Unfortunately we can't use their map or the GPX files
> from their web site without their explicit permission. I'll try to whip up
> a message in French to ask for that permission, but usually the answer to
> such requests is nyet. Meaning we'll have to go and survey it ourselves or
> with help of gpx files recorded by people who'll go out and ride them. The
> advantage of doing it ourselves is that it's possible to make a lot more
> pictures and notes and improve the rest of the data around there at the
> same time.
>
>
> The copyright information must be written inside the metadata, obtained
> with a WMS 
> Getcapabilitiesrequest
>  to or extracted from  the GPX XML file according the GPX
> schema (1.1) . (just like
> finding the © written in a book or on a record dispenses everybody to
> inquire)
> But does a © on a map forbid photocopying the map or learning the route by
> heart and map it?
>
> You can also consider listing  *Les itinéraires touristiques 
> balisés*
> (legally official site)  for Wallonie.
> Several communes consider that the routes are both cycling and biking.
> I have mapped routes in the commune Sprimont and 
> Theux
> with the official IDs.  SP3 and most of TE is missing. I e-mailed both adms
> but I've got no reply. Someone made something similar in 
> Tillf,
> but I don't see any official IDs for Tilff.
>
> I would have liked to add node numbers, but I could not find on the
> Belgian OSM wiki how they're assigned.  How van I do that?
>
> I made a cycle route 
> here.
> Completely unofficial and off the top of my head. I chose it because it's
> almost flat in a very hilly region, but I do not know how to show that on
> the map.  How could I?
> I'd love to draw more if someone around got interested or ever replied to
> my e-mails.
> Sprimont do not seem to officially list anything bike specific.
> Should I be inventive and made unofficial routes?
> I'm almost sure some kids nearby would help me.
>
> We should request OSM to add Waymart map 
> layersto
>  their site, they're simply great.
> Could we suggest firms that use GoogleMaps to use OpenStreetMap instead
> and to help them adding to OSM what they need?
>
>  Please
> do not change what I mapped, but suggest anything you want.
>
> Cordialement,
>
>   André.
>
> I hope you don't mind I'm going to change your nodes a bit.
>
> For one the nodes don't need network=rcn or bicycle=yes. It's enough if
> they have an rcn_ref tag. This is to avoid having to put network=rcn;rwn
> for nodes that are common between walking and cycling networks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jo
>
> Op 15 december 2012 01:43 schreef EeBie  het volgende:
>
>> Jo,
>>
>>
>>  You can add a new cycle network to the list.
>> Since this year there is a cycle node network in Namur and Luxembourg:
>> Famenne-à-Vélo.
>> See   http://www.famenne-a-velo.be/  They
>> speak about 350 km in total.
>>
>> I encountered a few node signs while hiking in the region and tagged 3
>> of them and one route (154-155) in the neighborhood of Wavreille 
>> map.
>>
>> The website offers the possibility to download GPX files of the routes. I
>> don’t have any idea if it is permitted to use those to add the route to
>> OSM.
>>
>> The application is developed by Geolives. That company writes that they
>> can also make applications based on OSM. (the website for Famenne-à-Vélo
>> uses Google maps).
>>
>> The reference list of Geolives shows also several (walking) routes in
>> Wallonie.
>>
>>
>>  Erik
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[Glenn Plas]

PS: I'm using a lot of geocoding when I truly mean 'reverse
geocode',   I only focus in getting full addresses back from
coordinates.


That's probably the main difference. I focus on geocoding (getting 
coordinates from an address). And when you have long streets without 
housenumbers, Nominatim will give a result, but the result can easily 
be 20 km off.  Which is really unacceptable. As you don't know how 
long the street is, you can only assume that you have the correct 
place when the housenumber is found.
20 Km is unacceptable, but It's probably partly the fault of nominatim 
code itself, I've been doing plenty of mods and the way it finds 
(geocode) places is pretty complicated.  I'm not saying incorrect but it 
sure is huge (try forking it on github to find out).   And it's based on 
getting USA/GB address types in general. Which means, when we deviate a 
bit from the 'current' de facto standard that nominatim uses, we get 
less accurate results.   That doesn't mean it's not in OSM data.


I've been playing a lot with the idea of creating a light-weight 
geocoder api on top of Gazetteer.   It also always intruiged me why I 
was unable to get a postcode (but I did get a city) in a reverse geocode 
on my own servers (at one point I installed enough gazetteers to know 
the procedure by heart).  But the public one did find postal codes.  I 
always used all their docs for my own installs.  That triggered me to 
patch the result set and include postal codes by name and distance 
(coordinates as a source helps). Which turned problematic in 
Brussels/Antwerp sometimes.   But the customers didn't really care if it 
was 1 code off.


So that's what I meant with the "1 in 40" statement.
In that sense, you are probably right.  You need to know how to feed 
keywords in the correct order in the search page.   In google you can 
pretty much slam anything in it whatever the order, but they probably 
use a 1000 of their nodes at once to figure that out.




And I agree that the data is becoming better and better. When I 
started, my own street wasn't on the map (this triggered me). Now the 
street network is good as complete (we even have streets in the DB 
that are still under construction). So we need to focus on other 
things. Those things are (according to me):


I love to add those under constructions, I check the site of my 
municipality frequently for their names etc.   I love to remap places 
that have recently been reconstructed, like the R6 in 
Mechelen/Sint-Katelijne-Waver for example.  It took a year for google to 
catch up.  That's how I push people into mapping or make customers aware 
that their name is on that map because I put it there.  They absolutely 
love that stuff.




  * Addresses including housenumbers
  * POI's including extra information s.a. opening hours
  * Extra info on roads (maxspeed, lanes ...)


agreed with all.   The easiest way I find to add addresses/street info is;
 - know the place
 - put all merchants in it ('zelfstandigen', bakery, chinese food, 
vending machines).   Use their site or the municipality to find the 
addresses, every place does that with the small shops.   They won't mind 
this at all, in fact, they love the exposure.  And it's an official list 
and you can use it, it is public information by nature.
 - Just start with what you know.  Try finding bread here in the area 
at night, only for that reason I add all those vending machines so I can 
follow the android in my quest for food ;-)
I just wanted to see how our addresses are evolving, as a result of 
the other blog posts.and it wasn't that hard to get some indicative 
numbers.
It's useful exercise, which I applaud.  Only at the very end of my 
initial reaction I started to realise the 'reverse geocoding' fact isn't 
typical use for everyone ;-)


In that sense, there is a german oriented plugin to add maxspeed/road 
signs to JOSM. It's a great tool and a way to put some standards in.  It 
has a way to customize, I did like 5% of it to map road signs.  It 
supports mapping it on a way and just signs next to the road( less 
useful imho).   'road signs plugin' it's called.   So I'm trying to make 
a Belgian version, in the recent road signs discussion this could prove 
useful for extra quality.


Mvg,

Glenn
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur & Luxembourg

[A.Pirard.Papou]

On 2012-12-15 13:03, Jo wrote :

(And thanks for writing that letter, your French is quite good!)

Hi EeBie,

That's great news! Unfortunately we can't use their map or the GPX 
files from their web site without their explicit permission. I'll try 
to whip up a message in French to ask for that permission, but usually 
the answer to such requests is nyet. Meaning we'll have to go and 
survey it ourselves or with help of gpx files recorded by people 
who'll go out and ride them. The advantage of doing it ourselves is 
that it's possible to make a lot more pictures and notes and improve 
the rest of the data around there at the same time.


The copyright information must be written inside the metadata, obtained 
with a WMS Getcapabilities 
 request to 
or extracted from  the GPX XML file according the GPX schema (1.1) 
. (just like finding the © 
written in a book or on a record dispenses everybody to inquire)
But does a © on a map forbid photocopying the map or learning the route 
by heart and map it?


You can also consider listing *Les itinéraires touristiques balisés* 
  
(legally official site)  for Wallonie.

Several communes consider that the routes are both cycling and biking.
I have mapped routes in the commune Sprimont and Theux 
  with 
the official IDs.  SP3 and most of TE is missing. I e-mailed both adms 
but I've got no reply. Someone made something similar in Tillf 
, but 
I don't see any official IDs for Tilff.


I would have liked to add node numbers, but I could not find on the 
Belgian OSM wiki how they're assigned.  How van I do that?


I made a cycle route here 
.  
Completely unofficial and off the top of my head. I chose it because 
it's almost flat in a very hilly region, but I do not know how to show 
that on the map.  How could I?
I'd love to draw more if someone around got interested or ever replied 
to my e-mails.

Sprimont do not seem to officially list anything bike specific.
Should I be inventive and made unofficial routes?
I'm almost sure some kids nearby would help me.

We should request OSM to add Waymart map layers 
 
to their site, they're simply great.
Could we suggest firms that use GoogleMaps to use OpenStreetMap instead 
and to help them adding to OSM what they need?


Please 
do not change what I mapped, but suggest anything you want.


Cordialement,

André.



I hope you don't mind I'm going to change your nodes a bit.

For one the nodes don't need network=rcn or bicycle=yes. It's enough 
if they have an rcn_ref tag. This is to avoid having to put 
network=rcn;rwn for nodes that are common between walking and cycling 
networks.


Cheers,

Jo

Op 15 december 2012 01:43 schreef EeBie > het volgende:


Jo,


You can add a new cycle network to the list.
Since this year there is a cycle node network in Namur and
Luxembourg: Famenne-à-Vélo.
See http://www.famenne-a-velo.be/
They speak about 350 km in total.

I encountered a few node signs while hiking in the region and
tagged 3 of them and one route (154-155) in the neighborhood of
Wavreille map

.

The website offers the possibility to download GPX files of the
routes. I don’t have any idea if it is permitted to use those to
add the route to OSM.

The application is developed by Geolives. That company writes that
they can also make applications based on OSM. (the website for
Famenne-à-Vélo uses Google maps).

The reference list of Geolives shows also several (walking) routes
in Wallonie.


Erik



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[Sander Deryckere]

2012/12/23 Glenn Plas 

> Sander/Jo
>
> Lovely stats, but I don't really agree with all the conclusions, plenty of
> doubtful assumptions as well stated, but I will go along with those for a
> second.
>
> I work professionally with OSM data, more specifically Nominatim for years
> now(2007/8), If you do not account for the house numbers, the results are
> far better than google(is)/yahoo(was).
>
> The engines that perform the best reverse geocoding results in order :
>  nominatim, google, yahoo, bing, ...rest
>
> In reality the only thing that is preventing a full geocode (reverse)
> result is the missing housenumber.  The streets geocode fine, with better
> quality than the number 1  (google at this moment).  Professionally I don't
> care too much for house numbers (albeit I understand the need for this in
> other applications of course).  All commercial ones have easter eggs
> everywhere, I found more than 20 this year in google, streets that don't
> exist so they can see if they get copied over.  These will be returned in
> geocode results.
>
> So forgive me, but reading that I will only get 1 hit out of 40 is just
> not correct compared to reality.  I am able to geocode everything I throw
> at  nominatim,  I'm not talking about 1000 geocodes a week but millions (5
> to 10).   Only 5 % is being relayed to a different engine since the DB I
> talk about is a Benelux OSM dump, not a full, so anything outside the
> benelux will be sent to external engines.
>
> I would accept those numbers if you would state: "Getting back a full
> address including housenumbers will probably work 1 out of 40" But you WILL
> get an address back from Nominatim in all other cases, without a house
> number of course.
>
> It surprises me a lot that I'm even in those top stats with a mere 111
> addresses added I don't think we can talk about a success in .BE
> looking at those totals.   But I do agree its improving, compared to 2008
> nominatim result sets.  it not only improved in source quality (OSM) but
> also implementation (so postal code is returned now, it didn't use to do
> that).
>
> Happy holidays!
>
> PS: I'm using a lot of geocoding when I truly mean 'reverse geocode',   I
> only focus in getting full addresses back from coordinates.
>

That's probably the main difference. I focus on geocoding (getting
coordinates from an address). And when you have long streets without
housenumbers, Nominatim will give a result, but the result can easily be 20
km off.  Which is really unacceptable. As you don't know how long the
street is, you can only assume that you have the correct place when the
housenumber is found.

So that's what I meant with the "1 in 40" statement.

And I agree that the data is becoming better and better. When I started, my
own street wasn't on the map (this triggered me). Now the street network is
good as complete (we even have streets in the DB that are still under
construction). So we need to focus on other things. Those things are
(according to me):


   - Addresses including housenumbers
   - POI's including extra information s.a. opening hours
   - Extra info on roads (maxspeed, lanes ...)

I just wanted to see how our addresses are evolving, as a result of the
other blog posts.and it wasn't that hard to get some indicative numbers.

Regards,
Sander
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Addresses in Belgium

[Glenn Plas]

Sander/Jo

Lovely stats, but I don't really agree with all the conclusions, plenty 
of doubtful assumptions as well stated, but I will go along with those 
for a second.


I work professionally with OSM data, more specifically Nominatim for 
years now(2007/8), If you do not account for the house numbers, the 
results are far better than google(is)/yahoo(was).


The engines that perform the best reverse geocoding results in order :  
nominatim, google, yahoo, bing, ...rest


In reality the only thing that is preventing a full geocode (reverse) 
result is the missing housenumber.  The streets geocode fine, with 
better quality than the number 1  (google at this moment).  
Professionally I don't care too much for house numbers (albeit I 
understand the need for this in other applications of course).  All 
commercial ones have easter eggs everywhere, I found more than 20 this 
year in google, streets that don't exist so they can see if they get 
copied over.  These will be returned in geocode results.


So forgive me, but reading that I will only get 1 hit out of 40 is just 
not correct compared to reality.  I am able to geocode everything I 
throw at  nominatim,  I'm not talking about 1000 geocodes a week but 
millions (5 to 10).   Only 5 % is being relayed to a different engine 
since the DB I talk about is a Benelux OSM dump, not a full, so anything 
outside the benelux will be sent to external engines.


I would accept those numbers if you would state: "Getting back a full 
address including housenumbers will probably work 1 out of 40" But you 
WILL get an address back from Nominatim in all other cases, without a 
house number of course.


It surprises me a lot that I'm even in those top stats with a mere 111 
addresses added I don't think we can talk about a success in .BE 
looking at those totals.   But I do agree its improving, compared to 
2008 nominatim result sets.  it not only improved in source quality 
(OSM) but also implementation (so postal code is returned now, it didn't 
use to do that).


Happy holidays!

PS: I'm using a lot of geocoding when I truly mean 'reverse geocode',   
I only focus in getting full addresses back from coordinates.


Glenn


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