Re: [OSM-talk-be] covered or tunnel

[marc bessieres]

2013/11/3 Kurt Roeckx 

> On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:36:53PM +0100, marc bessieres wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > With Keep Right, there is the following error:
> > http://keepright.at/report_map.php?schema=72&error=25113833
> >
> > The error text is:
> > This node is a junction of ways on different layers:
> > #38962740<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38962740>
> > (-1),#116844652 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/116844652>(0)
> >
> > It is because the way http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38962740has
> > the tag tunnel=yes
>
> As far as I know tunnel=yes doesn't imply layer=-1, which
> keepright seems to be doing.  I think keepright is wrong to assume
> that.  But then Key:layer says that for bridges and tunnels that
> are at level 0 you should explicitly put the layer.
>

I suppose keepright uses both pieces of information. So I could put the
layer=0.


> > When I look at the wiki for the tunnel definition
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tunnel
> >
> > And the one of covered
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:covered
> >
> > I presume that tunnel shall be replaced by covered as this way is a
> > "galerie" at the same ground level as the 2 streets it connects to.
>
> There is also tunnel=building_passage, which might be more clear
> then just yes.  It's also very explicit in saying that it should
> have the same layer as the buildings (none/0).
>

But I think this is better, I missed it when I read the wiki.
So I would go mapping the "galeries" of Bxl I know like that.
Would that be ok?


> As far as I understand it, covered means that there aren't 2 walls
> on each side and so that it's open, which as far as I know isn't
> the case.
>
> Ok, I understand the difference now. I think there is such a path on way
to the Mont des Arts
from the Central station.

Thank you Kurt,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] question on relation 2404021

[marc bessieres]

I would normally look this up in the atlas der buurtwegen / des

> chemins vicinaux, but I can't find them for Brussels.
>
> So I've looked at urbis (http://geoloc.irisnet.be/) which I
> understand we can use, under extra it has an option to show
> the municipalities.  But that would only be the one for level
> 8 and no information about the level 9 since they don't really
> exist anymore.
>
> I suggest you try to find the atlas der buurtwegen / des
> chemins vicinaux, or the Popp card for that information.
>
>
> PS: The URLs in your e-mail missed the "1" at the end, but it's in
> the subject.
>
> Kurt
>

Thank you Kurt for the pointer, I've looked for how to get this atlas and
it seems that
one has to go to the "commune", so it would take some time before I can go.
Hopefully someone else go do it in between.

Sorry for the typo in the URL, I'll try to be more cautious in my
copy/paste in the future.

Thank you,
Marc
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[OSM-talk-be] covered or tunnel

[marc bessieres]

Hello,

With Keep Right, there is the following error:
http://keepright.at/report_map.php?schema=72&error=25113833

The error text is:
This node is a junction of ways on different layers:
#38962740
(-1),#116844652 (0)

It is because the way http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38962740 has
the tag tunnel=yes

When I look at the wiki for the tunnel definition
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tunnel

And the one of covered
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:covered

I presume that tunnel shall be replaced by covered as this way is a
"galerie" at the same ground level as the 2 streets it connects to.

So I looked at other "galeries" I know in Bxl to see how they're tagged.
I see that "galerie louise" has also tunnel=yes
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/31001460

And "galerie de la reine" doesn't have anything.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/87501645

What should I do?
I would believe put covered everywhere, and replace tunnel when it is used.
Or I can do it only for the error of Keep Right?
Or anything else you would suggest.

Cheers,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] question on relation 2404021

[marc bessieres]

2013/11/3 André Pirard 

>  On 2013-11-03 01:00, André Pirard wrote :
>
> On 2013-11-02 23:04, marc bessieres wrote :
>
>  Hello,
>
>  After starting updating the wiki on quality assurance tools. I spent some
> time correcting the issues in Brussels.
>  Now I start finding issues I don't have enough knowledge to fix alone.
>  I assume it is better to send a mail per issue, so I start here with:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/240402
>
>  There is a FIXME in it before its boundaries are not complete.
>
>  For me it looks a lot like:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/58274
>
>  which has a complete boundary.
>  But one is Bruxelles, and the other is Ville de Bruxelles.
>
>  I must admit I don't understand the differences.
>
>  My idea would be to merge the extra data of  the former into the latter.
> And remove the former.
>  But as they are each in the relation of the other I may miss something
> or someone would have done the merge already, so here I am asking for a
> piece of advice.
>
>  What should be done with:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/240402
>
>  Thank you in advance,
>  Marc
>
>
> You should certainly not delete anything before you have fully understood
> the very complicated administrative structures of our country ;-)  You may
> notice that we have two Belgiums.
> Notice that those boundaries are administrative level 8 and level 9,
> certainly not the same thing and that doing as you say is destroying.
> I have mapped thousands of kilometers of boundaries in Belgium and I might
> have a closer look at that if you want, but not just right now.  Boundaries
> are complicated things.
>
> Cheers,
>
>   André.
>
>
> * Ville/Stad* de Bruxelles is in fact a *Commune/Gemeente* made of 4
> anciennes communes/deelgemeenten Brussels, La(e)ken, Neder-Over-Heembeek
> and Haren.
> What you see incomplete is the first one, but the other ones are
> incomplete too.
> The boundaries between them are missing. They must be added with the right
> name and the four boundaries must be closed over them. My only problem is
> finding the missing pieces if I do that, but I know where to look for them.
>
> Cheers,
>
>   André.
>
Thank you André for your explanations, I saw the administrative level
difference, but I didn't know how to interpret them. Now I do :)
If you could find the missing boundaries it'd be perfect! Or tell us where
to look for them, may be me or someone else in the community can help there.

Cheers,
Marc
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[OSM-talk-be] question on relation 2404021

[marc bessieres]

Hello,

After starting updating the wiki on quality assurance tools. I spent some
time correcting the issues in Brussels.
Now I start finding issues I don't have enough knowledge to fix alone.
I assume it is better to send a mail per issue, so I start here with:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/240402

There is a FIXME in it before its boundaries are not complete.

For me it looks a lot like:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/58274

which has a complete boundary.
But one is Bruxelles, and the other is Ville de Bruxelles.

I must admit I don't understand the differences.

My idea would be to merge the extra data of  the former into the latter.
And remove the former.
But as they are each in the relation of the other I may miss something or
someone would have done the merge already, so here I am asking for a piece
of advice.

What should be done with:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/240402

Thank you in advance,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Adding ITO links to the wiki

[marc bessieres]

Hello


2013/10/20 marc bessieres 

>
> Le 20 oct. 2013 12:00, "Marc Gemis"  a écrit :
>
> >
> > Hallo Marc,
> >
> > I would go for a separate section "Quality Control" tools, which links
> to another page. This section can replace the one you made now (on the left)
> > There we could list all the quality control pages/links with a short
> description that describes their use. In a first version, you could leave
> out the description.
>
> Ok, I'll do
>
After some delay, I've updated
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium
As there was in fact already a generic page on the wiki for Quality Control
and ITO, I created a new section.
And I added the internal wiki links to it.
I hope this is better than my first edit, otherwise I'll change again, no
problem, just tell me.

Thanks,
Marc
PS: Andre, I hope the layout of the mail is as you wished?
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Adding ITO links to the wiki

[marc bessieres]

Le 20 oct. 2013 12:00, "Marc Gemis"  a écrit :
>
> Hallo Marc,
>
> I would go for a separate section "Quality Control" tools, which links to
another page. This section can replace the one you made now (on the left)
> There we could list all the quality control pages/links with a short
description that describes their use. In a first version, you could leave
out the description.

Ok, I'll do

> I only did a few small edits on the wiki so far, so I'm can't help you
with the technical details.
> hopefully someone else will do so.
>

No problem, I'll find out (I hope :)
Thank you for the feedback
Marc
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[OSM-talk-be] Adding ITO links to the wiki

[marc bessieres]

Hello,

As discussed in my first mails, I added to:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium
some links from SOTM Belgium of Marc Gemis.

I started by adding the ITO links, in the external links section at the
bottom of the page. I wonder if they should go there or in the green box on
the right hand side, but in this case I'll need to find out how to edit
this box.

If someone could tell me if this is the right way to edit the wiki, then
I'll try step by step to continue editing and discussing here.

Cheers,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Some questions from a beginner

[marc bessieres]

Le 18 oct. 2013 07:13, "Marc Gemis"  a écrit :
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 9:19 PM, marc bessieres 
wrote:
>>
>> 1) In the wiki, for the Project_Belgium I see several external links to
tools. Is there any problem to add the ones Marc Gemis showed in his
presentation?
>> I just need an account there, or is there a bit more?
>
>
> Hallo Marc,
>
> As Glenn already pointed out, you just need an account. Unfortunately,
it's a different one than the one you use for mapping. Many people use the
same nickname, as it makes it easier to get in touch with that person. It's
not a requirement tough.
> In theory you can edit, add, delete anything you want. Nobody will
complain when you add new tools to the tools page, add a tutorial to use a
new WMS-server in JOSM, etc. It would be nice though that you mention it on
the list so we are aware of the changes and can use it, learn something
from it, translate it, etc.
>
> In case you want to do a restructuring of the pages or change the
description of how something has to be tagged, I recommend to discuss this
with the community (this mailing list) first.

Ok, I'll inform before and after modifying the wiki, so the community can
review, It seems perfect to follow the free software way!

> It's nice to see that someone will do something useful with my
presentation. Thanks in advance to work on the documentation, as said in
the talk, the project also needs technical writers, not only mappers.
>
Your talk was very good, and if I can make use of it for the community it'd
be great.

Thanks
Dank u
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Some questions from a beginner

[marc bessieres]

Le 18 oct. 2013 05:42, "Marc Gemis"  a écrit :
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>>>
>>> 2) What are the recommanded plugins for JOSM to map in Belgium? I can
update the wiki with this info too.
>>>
>>
>> No typical Belgian plugins yet, but I would recommend :
>>
>>  the terracer plugin, building tools.  Openstreetbug (which kind of
nicely shows that bug in the way you mention once I click it) , notes,
 mapdust, fixaddresses,  turnrestrictions
>
>
> I can't live without utilsplugin2: adds several helpful selection
commands as well as tools to split or combine ways and closed ways.

Thanks, I'll use it too then

> The only dedicated JOSM extension for Belgium is a preset:
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Presets/BENELUX
> Still looking for someone to translate it in French, English and Dutch
are done.

Perfect, I'll see if I can help with the translation then

> Feel free to make suggestion for other typical Belgian settings. e.g. I
could add comic book store if you want.
>
I think it could be a could idea and Andre explained the tags to use

Thank you
Dank u
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Some questions from a beginner

[marc bessieres]

Le 17 oct. 2013 22:56, "André Pirard"  a écrit :
>
> On 2013-10-17 21:19, marc bessieres wrote :
>>
>> 3) I wanted to add my favorite comic books shop, I see only shop:books
which would make it. As comics are famous in Belgium, is there something
else?
>
> shop=books
> books=comics

Thank you!

>
>> 4) In OSM inspector I see that way_id : 233946835 is reported as error
because it has no tags. I see that it is the inside of a school. I thought
of creating a multipolygon with the external border and this way as the
internal border, is this the right way?
>
> It looks like the outside is drawn twice, of which the one sharing the
walls with the houses seems to come from Urbis.
> Simple way: you may tag the interior with the same name of the school.
Not sure about adding leisure=playground inside.
> Harder way: Relation:multipolygon with roles outer and inner for each
wall.
> In that case, the tags are put in the relation and the walls can have no
tags.
>

Thank you, I didn't notice. Should I remove the import from urbis or the
manual map, I presume the latter. And I can go to either solution for the
playground, what is the preferred way?

Thank you
Merci
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Some questions from a beginner

[marc bessieres]

Le 17 oct. 2013 21:36, "Glenn Plas"  a écrit :
>
> On 2013-10-17 21:19, marc bessieres wrote:
>
> welcome!
>
Thanks

>>
>> I have a couple of questions, if I may ask?
>>
> No would be kind of a rude answer.
>
:)
>>
>> 1) In the wiki, for the Project_Belgium I see several external links to
tools. Is there any problem to add the ones Marc Gemis showed in his
presentation?
>> I just need an account there, or is there a bit more?
>>
> Please go ahead, the wiki needs a lot of work.
>
Ok, I'll do

>> 2) What are the recommanded plugins for JOSM to map in Belgium? I can
update the wiki with this info too.
>>
>
> No typical Belgian plugins yet, but I would recommend :
>
>  the terracer plugin, building tools.  Openstreetbug (which kind of
nicely shows that bug in the way you mention once I click it) , notes,
 mapdust, fixaddresses,  turnrestrictions
>
> Also: work with mapCSS  (check preferences of josm for custom style
downloads).
>

Great!Thanks
>>
>> 3) I wanted to add my favorite comic books shop, I see only shop:books
which would make it. As comics are famous in Belgium, is there something
else?
>>
> I have no idea really...  now I want a special tag :)
>

:)

>>
>> 4) In OSM inspector I see that way_id : 233946835 is reported as error
because it has no tags. I see that it is the inside of a school. I thought
of creating a multipolygon with the external border and this way as the
internal border, is this the right way?
>>
> The reason is exactly that, it's a way without a tag, e.g. you're not
telling what it is.  By the looks of this, it's mean as an area.  So the
very least it should have a area=yes tag on it to valdate.But what is
it really ?  What is this suppose to represent and why does it have to be a
mulipolygon ?
>
If I understand well this is the playground of a school, I thought of a
multipolygon because I looked at how other buildings with a hole were
mapped. But as I don't understand yet when to use a multipolygon I may be
wrong!
>>
>> It is a big group of questions, I hope this is the right way to interact
with the mailing list.
>>
>
> Perfect place to do so
>
Thank you very much for your answers!
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM Belgium & OKFN Belgium

[marc bessieres]

Hello,

It's my first message to the mailing list. I'm a new maper.
I was present at the meeting in Brussels a couple of weeks ago.

So I don't know if I can say much. But still I want to say that I agree.

Cheers
Marc
 Le 17 oct. 2013 16:26, "eMerzh"  a écrit :

> Yey :)
> agree =) +1 for me
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Jo  wrote:
>
>> I hereby support this motion. (I might have been watchin too much
>> television lately...)
>>
>> Thank you Ben!
>>
>> Jo
>>
>>
>> 2013/10/17 Glenn Plas 
>>
>>>  Ben has my support.
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2013-10-17 13:17, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> If everybody agrees we can make this 'official'. Before we do this I
>>> would like to give everybody another chance to voice opinions/concerns
>>> again about this.
>>>
>>> Basically this is what is going to happen:
>>>
>>> - OSM Belgium is NOT going to create a seperate VZW/ASBL but will work
>>> under the Open Knowledge Foundation Belgium (OKFN Belgium) umbrella.
>>> - OSM Belgium will be represented by Ben Abelshausen. (If there are
>>> other candidates please let the list know we can organize a vote, I don't
>>> want to do this if our community does not agree)
>>>
>>>  This does NOT exclude us in the future of:
>>>
>>> - Still becoming a VZW/ASBL for whatever reason.
>>> - Becoming a local chapter of OSMF.
>>>
>>> I think this is a good step forward no?
>>>  Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ben Abelshausen
>>>
>>>
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>>
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[OSM-talk-be] Some questions from a beginner

[marc bessieres]

Hello,

I'm a beginner mapper. I was at the meeting in Brussels a couple of weeks
ago.
I'm a foreigner who lives in Brussels, so I want to help mapping here.

I have a couple of questions, if I may ask?

1) In the wiki, for the Project_Belgium I see several external links to
tools. Is there any problem to add the ones Marc Gemis showed in his
presentation?
I just need an account there, or is there a bit more?

2) What are the recommanded plugins for JOSM to map in Belgium? I can
update the wiki with this info too.

3) I wanted to add my favorite comic books shop, I see only shop:books
which would make it. As comics are famous in Belgium, is there something
else?

4) In OSM inspector I see that way_id : 233946835 is reported as error
because it has no tags. I see that it is the inside of a school. I thought
of creating a multipolygon with the external border and this way as the
internal border, is this the right way?

It is a big group of questions, I hope this is the right way to interact
with the mailing list.

Cheers,
Marc
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