Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???
Kristoff, I don't think a license that forbids commercial use of the data is compatible with openstreetmap. Doing so would in my opinion be counter to the spirit. Best regards, Gyrbo - Oorspronkelijk bericht - Van : Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bo...@skypro.be] Verzonden : dinsdag , september 22, 2009 08:37 AM Aan : talk-be@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp : [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ??? Hi All, After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same thing. Now, IMHO, what would help to persuade the administrations is a bit more legal security on the use of this information. After all, this information does also have a commercial value (when they are also licenced to the commercial streetmap companies) so it might be usefull to provide the same kind of thing. So, I don't know how the discussion on the vzw is going, but perhaps one of the things that I would concider it to be for it, would be to draw up a formal licence-agreement (perhaps you can ask legal support from one of the other open-source related organisation on this) and to be the party which who (say) a city council or a town's administration can sign this agreement. IMHO, the license would need to contain something like this: (this is just a rough idea, I tried to balance the rights of both parties as much as possible). - the city-council is copyright-owner of the information and remains it to be; including in furher copies of this information - the city-council permit the information to be entered into the openstreetmap-server, under the open-documentation licence - no commercial use of this information is allowed (this would stop the commercial companies from copying the streetmap-information from the openstreetmap-server instead of asking (read: pay for) it from the city-councils. It would then be usefull if the vzw would enter this kind of information into the openstreetmap-server. The situation now is that -as I am the person who received the informaton from my city-council and who uploaded it- if any legal problems would arrize this would all trace-back to me! So, if information received from thirth-parties would be uploaded by an account which is owned by the vzw; this would also safeguard the volonteers who do the work from being legally draged into a court-case if problems would arrize (e.g. with the commercial streetmap-companies). I think, if you have an organisation that works with volonteers, it's always your responsability to make sure these volonteers are as much protected as possible. (this is a bit in the same line as the message I posted earlier on assurence for volonteers who take part in a streetmapping-event). Any comments or questions welcome! Cheerio! Kr. Bonne. -- jabber/gtalk: krist...@krbonne.net ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???
Kristoff Bonne wrote: Hi All, After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same thing. A little question: would it be possible to setup some server to host the files we get this way, so everyone in the project can make use of it? Or for later reference should the person who got the data disappear? Of course it should come with the metadata that the file is under the same license as OSM. Because I still remember that mysterious railway gps tracks dataset someone got from NMBS or other railway company for usage in OSM (about two years ago I think), and then no-one ever heard of him again. So there's that useful data somewhere, except no-one can use it because the data disappeared with the person. Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???
If it is data that can be transformed in a GPX file it should be the most easy to upload it as a 'track' that is public? For other data that should be public available, isn't there some existing - osm - server that could host it? I have plenty of place on a server where only bandwidth can be a problem, limited place on a server where bandwidth is no problem. Luc / Speedy On Tue, 2009-09-22 at 14:23 +0200, Ben Laenen wrote: Kristoff Bonne wrote: Hi All, After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same thing. A little question: would it be possible to setup some server to host the files we get this way, so everyone in the project can make use of it? Or for later reference should the person who got the data disappear? Of course it should come with the metadata that the file is under the same license as OSM. Because I still remember that mysterious railway gps tracks dataset someone got from NMBS or other railway company for usage in OSM (about two years ago I think), and then no-one ever heard of him again. So there's that useful data somewhere, except no-one can use it because the data disappeared with the person. Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???
Ben, The ESRI-files I received as been converted to points and ways and have been uploaded directly to the OSM-server in that form. But, concidering storing the original files in some central place, the issue is that I have a spoken agreement with the person who provided these files for uploading them to the openstreetmap-project. I have never spoken to him about giving these files to other people or something like that. That's exactly one of the reasons why I think some kinf of written agreement would not be a bad thing. At least, it provides clearity on who does what, what information is stored where, etc. In the end, this is in the interest of everybody! Cheerio! Kr. Bonne. Ben Laenen schreef: Kristoff Bonne wrote: Hi All, After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same thing. A little question: would it be possible to setup some server to host the files we get this way, so everyone in the project can make use of it? Or for later reference should the person who got the data disappear? Of course it should come with the metadata that the file is under the same license as OSM. Because I still remember that mysterious railway gps tracks dataset someone got from NMBS or other railway company for usage in OSM (about two years ago I think), and then no-one ever heard of him again. So there's that useful data somewhere, except no-one can use it because the data disappeared with the person. Greetings Ben -- jabber/gtalk: krist...@krbonne.net attachment: kristoff_bonne.vcf signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???
Hi Dennis and all others. I just checked at it looks like you are right. To bad the license-system does not allow (e.g.) the user to select between a commercial use barred or commercial use allowed license per data-element they enter. After all, on everything that is upload is some metadata attached, so it would be perfectly possible to encode this distiction inside the database. The But, besides this point, I still think it would be interesting to have some kind of formal license-agreement that a thirth-party can sign (even it just is a copy of the normal license of the openstreetmap-project adding we provide out data to 'openstreetmap.be vzw' who have to right to enter them into the openstreetmap-server on out behalve. A lot of organisation like some kind of formal agreement they can look at, be verified by their legal department and be signed by the schepen or somebody else. (it's actually a great opportunity to invite the press and get some coverage for the openstreetmap-project). Perhaps somebody should contact an organisation like the FFII to get some advice on this; as they probably have more experience with this kind of legal issues. Cheerio! Kr. Bonne. Kristoff, I don't think a license that forbids commercial use of the data is compatible with openstreetmap. Doing so would in my opinion be counter to the spirit. Best regards, Gyrbo - Oorspronkelijk bericht - Van : Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bo...@skypro.be] Verzonden : dinsdag , september 22, 2009 08:37 AM Aan : talk-be@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp : [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ??? Hi All, After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same thing. Now, IMHO, what would help to persuade the administrations is a bit more legal security on the use of this information. After all, this information does also have a commercial value (when they are also licenced to the commercial streetmap companies) so it might be usefull to provide the same kind of thing. So, I don't know how the discussion on the vzw is going, but perhaps one of the things that I would concider it to be for it, would be to draw up a formal licence-agreement (perhaps you can ask legal support from one of the other open-source related organisation on this) and to be the party which who (say) a city council or a town's administration can sign this agreement. IMHO, the license would need to contain something like this: (this is just a rough idea, I tried to balance the rights of both parties as much as possible). - the city-council is copyright-owner of the information and remains it to be; including in furher copies of this information - the city-council permit the information to be entered into the openstreetmap-server, under the open-documentation licence - no commercial use of this information is allowed (this would stop the commercial companies from copying the streetmap-information from the openstreetmap-server instead of asking (read: pay for) it from the city-councils. It would then be usefull if the vzw would enter this kind of information into the openstreetmap-server. The situation now is that -as I am the person who received the informaton from my city-council and who uploaded it- if any legal problems would arrize this would all trace-back to me! So, if information received from thirth-parties would be uploaded by an account which is owned by the vzw; this would also safeguard the volonteers who do the work from being legally draged into a court-case if problems would arrize (e.g. with the commercial streetmap-companies). I think, if you have an organisation that works with volonteers, it's always your responsability to make sure these volonteers are as much protected as possible. (this is a bit in the same line as the message I posted earlier on assurence for volonteers who take part in a streetmapping-event). Any comments or questions welcome! Cheerio! Kr. Bonne. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- jabber/gtalk: krist...@krbonne.net attachment: kristoff_bonne.vcf signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???
Kristoff Bonne wrote: Ben, The ESRI-files I received as been converted to points and ways and have been uploaded directly to the OSM-server in that form. About which municipality are we actually speaking btw? From which town did you get the data? But, concidering storing the original files in some central place, the issue is that I have a spoken agreement with the person who provided these files for uploading them to the openstreetmap-project. I have never spoken to him about giving these files to other people or something like that. But by uploading to OSM you're basically doing just that: giving it away to other people. Except that when you don't make the file itself available somewhere, some people may have a slightly harder time extracting the dataset from OSM again. But it's possible nonetheless, and he could then make an ESRI file again from that and distribute that under the CC license, and so we end up with the same file you started with, except a possible quality loss. So I do not understand your point here. By giving it to OSM through you he basically said it's OK to distribute under OSM license. So you can make the file by itself available under the same license. It'll stay under the copyright of whatever organization made the ESRI file, but would just get a CC license stamp. You just never know what will happen in future with the data, and we might need it again, and you may not be around then. That's exactly one of the reasons why I think some kinf of written agreement would not be a bad thing. At least, it provides clearity on who does what, what information is stored where, etc. In the end, this is in the interest of everybody! Well, it would look more formal, but in the end an OSM Belgium vzw wouldn't be more official than you as a private person. You could have signed a contract with him just as well if you want a written agreement to be sure no problems could arise in future. I don't think the envelope of a non-profit organization would mean its members aren't vulnerable to those claims. Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
