Re: [Talk-GB] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
Tim Dobson wrote: Perhaps the people who are nearish the top of OSM, and I feel sheepish that I don't really know who I'm talking about, might like to put out a pressrelease or press statement about how OSM is helping put *real* maps back on the internet and allow cool mashups etc. I'm OSMF press person until the weekend. From what I can tell Mary (who, incidentally, taught me everything I know about cartography :) ) actually mentioned OSM in her address: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7586789.stm Projects such as Open Street Map, through which thousands of Britons have contributed their local knowledge to map pubs, landmarks and even post boxes online, are the first step in the fight back against 'corporate blankwash', she added. Which is smashing, but also suggests to me that most of the newspapers have chosen not to mention us... this time. cheers Richard trying not to get too annoyed with the glib enthusiasm of Adrian Miles on the BBC interview ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
Richard Fairhurst wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7586789.stm We're also in the Daily Mail (eek)[1]: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1050408/Is-satnav-turning-dunces-map-reading.html cheers Richard [1] for our overseas readers, this is possibly the most reactionary newspaper in Britain. It almost certainly doesn't like you :( ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Fwd: [geo-discuss] Ordonance Survey lobbying
Begin forwarded message: From: Benjamin Henrion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 29 August 2008 10:39:59 BST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [geo-discuss] Ordonance Survey lobbying http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/08/ordnance-survey-right-out-of-order.html 28 August 2008 Ordnance Survey: Right Out of Order I always thought that the Ordnance Survey had a rather, er, Olympian view of things that was more suited to the top-down twentieth century than the bottom-up one we inhabit. Some fine FOI work by the Guardian has confirmed that they really are as out of order as I surmised: An extraordinary picture of a state body carrying out political lobbying on the issue of free data has emerged from documents obtained by the Guardian. The correspondence reveals that Ordnance Survey (OS) is targeting MPs from Westminster and devolved assemblies, civil servants and leading figures in the free data debate. The agency openly attends party conferences and other political events to promote the value of geographical data. However, earlier this year a Parliamentary question revealed that it had paid a company called Mandate £42,076.20 plus VAT since August 2007. So here we have a state body using *our* money to pay for lobbyists to advise on how to stop oiks like *us* from gaining free access to the information *we* largely foot the bill for. The one consolation is that if they are prepared to stoop to stupid tactics like this, they are clearly running very scared: anyone remember Eric pitbull Dezenhall, another consultant brought in a desperate attempt to stave off open access...? Posted by glyn moody at 2:05 PM Labels: eric dezenhall, free our data, freedom of information, guardian, open access, opendata, ordnance survey, pitbull 2 comments: zoobab said... I met someone from the OS lobbying Members of the European Parliament for non-public geodata for the INSPIRE directive. Ordonance Survey was lobbying together with another lobbying organisation names eurogeographics, which regroups national mapping agencies. The executive lobbying the legislator, what a seperation of powers 6:46 PM glyn moody said... Thanks for that info - as you say, a pretty sad state of affairs... 6:59 PM -- Benjamin Henrion bhenrion at ffii.org FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-4148403 ___ geo-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/geo-discuss Best Steve ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Dobson wrote: Whereas Ordnance Survey maps were designed for the military, and churches were added simply as useful landmarks, No one here seems to have mentioned that the reason that on-line maps aren't as good as OS maps is that OS won't give out the information (at least not at a reasonable price), so TeleAtlas, NavTeq, AND etc. have to spend millions of man hours collecting it all again, and they don't have the need to add all the bits and pieces. Hopefully once we (i.e. OSM) collect the data, it won't need to be collected again. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki33goACgkQz+aYVHdncI0oAQCfcKlMdpCVb2vxy9Q3mg1/3gOu mtAAn2l+h6JR9ZyJN8neMI7O6fypfsR+ =xY5Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
I guess one way to break up UK mapping data monoploy is for other owners of important GI to release it, such as local authorities, http://www.gisdevelopment.net/magazine/global/2008/august/52.htm James Stewart On 29 Aug 2008, at 12:31, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Dobson wrote: Whereas Ordnance Survey maps were designed for the military, and churches were added simply as useful landmarks, No one here seems to have mentioned that the reason that on-line maps aren't as good as OS maps is that OS won't give out the information (at least not at a reasonable price), so TeleAtlas, NavTeq, AND etc. have to spend millions of man hours collecting it all again, and they don't have the need to add all the bits and pieces. Hopefully once we (i.e. OSM) collect the data, it won't need to be collected again. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki33goACgkQz+aYVHdncI0oAQCfcKlMdpCVb2vxy9Q3mg1/3gOu mtAAn2l+h6JR9ZyJN8neMI7O6fypfsR+ =xY5Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
On 29 Aug 2008, at 13:30, James Stewart wrote: I guess one way to break up UK mapping data monoploy is for other owners of important GI to release it, such as local authorities, http://www.gisdevelopment.net/magazine/global/2008/august/52.htm Or... maybe we could start some kind of project to collect this collaboratively and give it away. A 'free map' if you will? Best Steve ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 12:31 +0100, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: Tim Dobson wrote: Whereas Ordnance Survey maps were designed for the military, and churches were added simply as useful landmarks, No one here seems to have mentioned that the reason that on-line maps aren't as good as OS maps is that OS won't give out the information (at least not at a reasonable price), so TeleAtlas, NavTeq, AND etc. have to spend millions of man hours collecting it all again, and they don't have the need to add all the bits and pieces. Hopefully once we (i.e. OSM) collect the data, it won't need to be collected again. The point was raised in the BBC TV report (watch the iPlayer video embedded in the BBC article). Jon ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
The London Mapping Marathons don't seem to be doing much press contacting, but Croydon's local newspapers seem to be hunting us down about when we visited there on Wednesday. I wonder if we're just not represented enough. I watched the BBC clip on their article, and okay the guy was very enthusiastic but he was just a 'Technology Expert', why couldn't there have been an OSM guy instead? The problem as they explained it was leading onto OSM so much but nobody there to pick up the cue. (my 2 pence anyway) 2008/8/29 Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Dobson wrote: Whereas Ordnance Survey maps were designed for the military, and churches were added simply as useful landmarks, No one here seems to have mentioned that the reason that on-line maps aren't as good as OS maps is that OS won't give out the information (at least not at a reasonable price), so TeleAtlas, NavTeq, AND etc. have to spend millions of man hours collecting it all again, and they don't have the need to add all the bits and pieces. Hopefully once we (i.e. OSM) collect the data, it won't need to be collected again. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki33goACgkQz+aYVHdncI0oAQCfcKlMdpCVb2vxy9Q3mg1/3gOu mtAAn2l+h6JR9ZyJN8neMI7O6fypfsR+ =xY5Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
Steve wrote: I was under the impression that the local authorities generally used an OS base map, so their own data may well be derived from the OS data. A few years ago now (5 or 6) the bungalow next door was knocked down and two put on the plot in it's place. After they were built, an OS surveyor knocked on our door to ask permission to survey the new properties relative to ours (to give him the known fixed points on their existing data), which he surveyed entering the information straight onto a touch screen device and could presumably have been uploaded directly to the OS database if it had some sort of mobile data connection. I'm not sure this project currently supports that kind of accuracy, though perhaps if accurate GPS devices (there was something on TV about a harvester which drives itself to within 1 inch accuracy), and/or low level aerial photography become widely available we could aim towards it. I suspect for some users this accuracy is probably important. Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Very accurate GPS devices
Further to Ed's post, are there really GPS devices with one inch accuracy? I could imagine letting a device sit for some time, and then averaging the position, which might lead to increased accuracy at the cost of long exposure time... is that method used for surveying and so on? Matthew signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Very accurate GPS devices
Matthew Gates wrote: Further to Ed's post, are there really GPS devices with one inch accuracy? I could imagine letting a device sit for some time, and then averaging the position, which might lead to increased accuracy at the cost of long exposure time... is that method used for surveying and so on? He was referring to a combine using a DGPS system which has a base station at a fixed point on the farm whose location is well known. It then compares that known location to one calculated from the satellites in the normal and broadcasts the difference to the mobile received on the tractor/combine which uses the difference to correct it's own calculated position. What that allows you to do is to compensate for inaccuracy caused by local atmospheric conditions as you are generating a correction based on a local base station. Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Very accurate GPS devices
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008, Tom Hughes wrote: He was referring to a combine using a DGPS system which has a base station at a fixed point on the farm whose location is well known. It then compares that known location to one calculated from the satellites in the normal and broadcasts the difference to the mobile received on the tractor/combine which uses the difference to correct it's own calculated position. A DGPS station actually works out how big an error each received satellite signal has and transmits that data to the (mobile) GPS receiver, which then applies the correction _before_ calculating the location. (i.e. the DGPS signal contains the timing errors for each satellite rather than the errors in the coordinates, since the errors in the calculated coordinates would depend on which satellites the GPS is using, which is something the DGPS transmitter doesn't know). I suspect that a system that accurate is probably not just using DGPS though - it probably has a set of ground-based transmitters at known locations that it uses for ranging as well. - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Very accurate GPS devices
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Tom Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew Gates wrote: Further to Ed's post, are there really GPS devices with one inch accuracy? I could imagine letting a device sit for some time, and then averaging the position, which might lead to increased accuracy at the cost of long exposure time... is that method used for surveying and so on? He was referring to a combine using a DGPS system which has a base station at a fixed point on the farm whose location is well known. It then compares that known location to one calculated from the satellites in the normal and broadcasts the difference to the mobile received on the tractor/combine which uses the difference to correct it's own calculated position. What that allows you to do is to compensate for inaccuracy caused by local atmospheric conditions as you are generating a correction based on a local base station. ... and then the final stage is carrier-phase enhancement, which gets you down to the one-inch accuracy. It tells you what fraction of a wavelength of the GPS carrier signal you are out by compared to the base station, but not how far away you are. So if you can use DGPS to get down to a 20cm location, the CPGPS will tell you whereabouts in that particular box you must be. The guy from the OS at SOTM did a fairly good job of explaining it the difference between DGPS and CPGPS - I don't think wikipedia helps much. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Accuracy_enhancement Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Ed Loach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve wrote: I was under the impression that the local authorities generally used an OS base map, so their own data may well be derived from the OS data. A few years ago now (5 or 6) the bungalow next door was knocked down and two put on the plot in it's place. After they were built, an OS surveyor knocked on our door to ask permission to survey the new properties relative to ours He didn't need to ask permission either. The Ordnance Survey Act of 1841 gives him the right to from time to time, after notice in writing of the intention ... to enter into and upon any estate or property of any county ... for the purpose of making and carrying on any survey... The full scoop is here: http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+PrimaryPageNumber=98NavFrom=2parentActiveTextDocId=1149277activetextdocid=1149281 (to give him the known fixed points on their existing data), which he surveyed entering the information straight onto a touch screen device and could presumably have been uploaded directly to the OS database if it had some sort of mobile data connection. I'm not sure this project currently supports that kind of accuracy, though perhaps if accurate GPS devices (there was something on TV about a harvester which drives itself to within 1 inch accuracy), and/or low level aerial photography become widely available we could aim towards it. I suspect for some users this accuracy is probably important. Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
On 8/29/08, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He didn't need to ask permission either. The Ordnance Survey Act of 1841 gives him the right to from time to time, after notice in writing of the intention ... to enter into and upon any estate or property of any county ... for the purpose of making and carrying on any survey... The full scoop is here: http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+PrimaryPageNumber=98NavFrom=2parentActiveTextDocId=1149277activetextdocid=1149281 I heard somewhere that they no longer hold this legal right? ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
