Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[Andy Mabbett]

Presumably you're using the data from the CSV, not the PDF?

In any case the OG license is more recent, and thus supersedes the
restrictive terms in the PDF.

On 25 May 2011 22:44, TimSC  wrote:
> On 25/05/11 22:33, Chris Hill wrote:
>>
>> That data looks to be four and a half years old. Importing it en masse
>> seems inappropriate to me.
>>
> The point is it's massively more complete than OSM. Correcting the imported
> data would be easier than surveying from scratch. OSM goes out of date
> faster than we are actually surveying! (at least with respect to pharmacies)
>
> But I found a slight snag with the terms and conditions included with the
> PDF: "Terms of use - it is permitted to incorporate data from the nhs.uk and
> this site into software or computer systems used by any person or body
> performing statutory functions under, or by virtue of, legislation relating
> to the NHS."
>
> So it seems the national data set is not open data at all! Anyone have any
> experience in this?
>
> TimSC
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[Colin Smale]

On 25/05/2011 23:54, Steve Doerr wrote:

On 25/05/2011 22:47, TimSC wrote:

On 25/05/11 22:41, Steve Doerr wrote:
I preferred the old version where you didn't have to know about PCTs 
and the like :-(


Steve
You mean you can't find the PCT you want? That's a good point. I 
wanted to split the data set by county but that was not reliably in 
one column of the spreadsheet. I'll have a think!


Yes. I've so far failed to guess at any PCT name that will show me 
pharmacies in Gravesham.



Have you tried West Kent PCT?



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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[Steve Doerr]

On 25/05/2011 22:47, TimSC wrote:

On 25/05/11 22:41, Steve Doerr wrote:
I preferred the old version where you didn't have to know about PCTs 
and the like :-(


Steve
You mean you can't find the PCT you want? That's a good point. I 
wanted to split the data set by county but that was not reliably in 
one column of the spreadsheet. I'll have a think!


Yes. I've so far failed to guess at any PCT name that will show me 
pharmacies in Gravesham.


--
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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[TimSC]

On 25/05/11 22:41, Steve Doerr wrote:
I preferred the old version where you didn't have to know about PCTs 
and the like :-(


Steve
You mean you can't find the PCT you want? That's a good point. I wanted 
to split the data set by county but that was not reliably in one column 
of the spreadsheet. I'll have a think!


TimSC

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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[TimSC]

On 25/05/11 22:33, Chris Hill wrote:
That data looks to be four and a half years old. Importing it en masse 
seems inappropriate to me.


The point is it's massively more complete than OSM. Correcting the 
imported data would be easier than surveying from scratch. OSM goes out 
of date faster than we are actually surveying! (at least with respect to 
pharmacies)


But I found a slight snag with the terms and conditions included with 
the PDF: "Terms of use - it is permitted to incorporate data from the 
nhs.uk and this site into software or computer systems used by any 
person or body performing statutory functions under, or by virtue of, 
legislation relating to the NHS."


So it seems the national data set is not open data at all! Anyone have 
any experience in this?


TimSC


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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[Steve Doerr]

I preferred the old version where you didn't have to know about PCTs and 
the like :-(


Steve


On 25/05/2011 22:19, TimSC wrote:


Well,

I adapted my code to spit the data into areas and to handle the whole 
of the UK. I noticed that about 90% of the entries claim to be within 
1m of the delivery address. From a few tests, it seems to be true. I 
can see the marker in google street view exactly where it should be. 
We probably need to use OSTN02 to get an accurate lat,lon. I'd say 
this data set might be ripe for an import into OSM... The remaining 
10% that are inaccurate the community can survey on the ground.


Tim

On 25/05/11 14:48, Andy Mabbett wrote:

I'm told, in private e-mail:

   You can get all England from
http://data.gov.uk/dataset/location_of_pharmacies
   at least - presumably under the OGL.



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[Talk-GB] Talk-GB Research into the provision of path attribute information

[Fozy 81]

I found this interesting paper on footpath attribution prepared by Scottish 
Natural Heritage.


There are some really interesting ideas for how best to grade access, surface, 
gradients etc.



http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publications/commissioned_reports/442.pdf


Worth a read. 


Tim

> From: talk-gb-requ...@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Talk-GB Digest, Vol 56, Issue 31
> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
> Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 12:00:03 +0100
> 
> Send Talk-GB mailing list submissions to
>   talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   talk-gb-requ...@openstreetmap.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   talk-gb-ow...@openstreetmap.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-GB digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>1. Re: Kent Open Data, KCC (Gregory Williams)
>2. Any interest in a mapping party S Wales Sunday 26th June
>   (SK53 on OSM)
>3. Re: Tracks and there place in society (Richard Fairhurst)
>4. Re: Tracks and there place in society (Nick Whitelegg)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 16:00:17 +0100
> From: "Gregory Williams" 
> To: "'TimSC'" ,
>   
> Cc: noel.hat...@kent.gov.uk
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Open Data, KCC
> Message-ID:
>   <018e01cc1a23$4b654f90$e22feeb0$@willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Looking at the school data I see that it's not completely up-to-date. I note
> that one school shows the previous head's name (the current head has been in
> place for a couple of years) and doesn't reflect that it's recently become
> an academy. This despite the fact that it's noted that it was last modified
> yesterday.
> 
>  
> 
> So, based upon this admittedly isolated case, we shouldn't assume that all
> of the data is current - we might have more up-to-date data than KCC.
> 
>  
> 
> From: TimSC [mailto:mapp...@sheerman-chase.org.uk] 
> Sent: 23 May 2011 18:32
> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
> Cc: noel.hat...@kent.gov.uk
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Open Data, KCC
> 
>  
> 
> 
> I have been informed that the beta OpenKent site, with more data and
> visualisation tools is here:
> 
> http://www.openkent.org.uk/
> 
> Some things that caught my eye: lists of librarys, GPs, opticians, pharmacy,
> KCC offices, medway car parks, schools. This would be good for validation,
> as I said. 
> 
> As well as what has already been mentioned (speed limits, etc), we could
> also do with lists of post offices, alchohol licensed buildings, sure starts
> (kindergartens), petrol stations (or petrol storage), public telephones*,
> taxi ranks*, dentists*, arts centres, public art, law courts, crematoria,
> fire stations, police stations, council grave yards*, markets*, prisons,
> recycling points, public toilets, places of worship*, parks, landfills,
> allotments, sports centres, tourist information offices, museums, highway
> maintenance depots, quarries, planning permissions, amusements, auction
> licenses, animal boardings, pet shops, tattoo shops, sex establishments,
> horse riding establishments, gambling locations, zoos, trees (apparently the
> highway authority has a tree database), park parks (including outside
> medway), highway renaming, new highway designations, changes to rights of
> way, all business premises  did I miss anything?! If that is too much,
> we can prioritise our request to the council. We might start by asking for
> data that no one else has on their map and that is hard to comprehensively
> survey without their information. (Remember, I am not proposing to import
> anything yet, just to check against what the council has.) Hackey council
> has a list of many things they license, on the web [1], which is good for
> ideas.
> 
> * that is if the council holds the data.
> 
> If people can think of more data sets, we can put together a doodle poll to
> find the most wanted and to provide some justification (i.e. public demand)
> for us requesting the data.
> 
> Btw, I found the parish data I was looking for in OS OpenData, so no need to
> pester the council for that.
> 
> TimSC
> 
> [1] http://www.hackney.gov.uk/licensing.htm
> 
> On 23/05/11 16:10, Gregory Williams wrote: 
> 
> I've seen excerpts of that data in reports presented to the various Joint
> Transport Board meetings, so yes they have it.
> 
>  
> 
> Gregory
> 
>  
> 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:28:27 +0100
> From: Jerry Clough : SK53 on OSM 
> To: talk-gb@openstreetma

Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[TimSC]

Well,

I adapted my code to spit the data into areas and to handle the whole of 
the UK. I noticed that about 90% of the entries claim to be within 1m of 
the delivery address. From a few tests, it seems to be true. I can see 
the marker in google street view exactly where it should be. We probably 
need to use OSTN02 to get an accurate lat,lon. I'd say this data set 
might be ripe for an import into OSM... The remaining 10% that are 
inaccurate the community can survey on the ground.


Tim

On 25/05/11 14:48, Andy Mabbett wrote:

I'm told, in private e-mail:

   You can get all England from
http://data.gov.uk/dataset/location_of_pharmacies
   at least - presumably under the OGL.
   



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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[Tom Chance]

On 25 May 2011 16:59, TimSC  wrote:
>
> I'll have a think about if I can do something about that. Apart from having
> to modify the code, the main effort to making this type of data useful is to
> do the comparison with OSM to find what is missing. The post boxes have an
> obvious reference number physically written on them. Pharmacies don't have
> an obvious unique code (I am referring to surveying in OSM, rather than
> peeking in the database.). I found matches by doing a XAPI query and then
> manually comparing the results. That probably won't scale up to the national
> size database without other people helping.
>
>
This tool is really great, you might like to also look at this tool by
Robert Scott which looks for allotment objects in the vicinty of entries
from another open data set. This way it picks up unnamed allotments.

http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/dsmusicalallotments/map
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London/Datastore_allotments

As others have said, making a tool that would be easy to set-up, that could
both compare a data set with OSM and make it as easy as possible to update
OSM, would be really brilliant.

Regards,
Tom

-- 
http://tom.acrewoods.net   http://twitter.com/tom_chance
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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[TimSC]

Thanks for the feedback, all.

I'll have a think about if I can do something about that. Apart from 
having to modify the code, the main effort to making this type of data 
useful is to do the comparison with OSM to find what is missing. The 
post boxes have an obvious reference number physically written on them. 
Pharmacies don't have an obvious unique code (I am referring to 
surveying in OSM, rather than peeking in the database.). I found matches 
by doing a XAPI query and then manually comparing the results. That 
probably won't scale up to the national size database without other 
people helping.


Currently, I can't just import the whole database into my script because 
every pharmacy is sent every time the page is refreshed. This works for 
small ish data sets. I could split the data into regions, or do some 
fancy dynamic map stuff. Also, it would be harder to patrol so many 
pages from abuse, unless I just remove the comment feature...


TimSC


On 25/05/11 14:48, Andy Mabbett wrote:

I'm told, in private e-mail:

   You can get all England from
http://data.gov.uk/dataset/location_of_pharmacies
   at least - presumably under the OGL.
   



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[Talk-GB] The Severn Way

[Richard Fairhurst]

Hello all,

As some of you might know, I used to work for British Waterways editing
their consumer website, Waterscape.com. We also put together a bunch of
other waterway websites while I was there, one of which was for the Severn
Way long-distance path.

Unfortunately, what with public sector cuts and all, it's been decided
they can no longer afford to run the Severn Way website. This seems a
terrible shame - it's a terrific walk (much more interesting than the
Thames Path :) ). So with the agreement of BW, I've bought the
severnway.com domain name and plan to resuscitate the site.

As part of this I'd love to put some OSM mapping on there - not just a
slippy map, but PDFs, Garmin downloads, all of that. But that rather
requires the route to be mapped in OSM.

The route so far is at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/112738

As you can see:
- unmapped Plynlimon-Welshpool
- partly mapped north of Welshpool
- mapped through Shrewsbury
- unmapped Shrewsbury-Stourport
- mapped Stourport-Gloucester
- partly mapped Gloucester-Frampton-on-Severn
- unmapped Frampton-Avonmouth
- unmapped Avonmouth-Bristol ("Bristol Link")

There's an overview map at
http://www.simonholtmarketing.com/PDFs/Severn%20Way%202.pdf

I'm looking forward to taking the odd Saturday now and then to help
complete the mapping. But if anyone finds themselves in and around the
route, please do survey it. Really looking forward to getting the site up
and running again.

cheers
Richard



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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[Andy Mabbett]

I'm told, in private e-mail:

  You can get all England from
http://data.gov.uk/dataset/location_of_pharmacies
  at least - presumably under the OGL.

On 25 May 2011 14:00, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> On 25 May 2011 13:33, TimSC  wrote:
>
>> I was thinking about Kent's open data and how we can improve our mapping.
>> I've been talking to Gregory about missing schools but for some reason, I
>> chose to look at pharmacies. I was partly inspired by Draco's post box
>> locator [1]. I thought I could do a web 2.0 annotation of the pharmacy data
>> set and allow adding links into the OSM database. This is the result.
>>
>> http://toolserver.org/~timsc/locateservices/view.php
>>
>> On this site you can:
>>
>> *Geolocate pharmacies on NPE, OS7, StreetView, OSM, given their rough
>> initial positions from the original data set (I am guessing the initial
>> position is simply the postcode centre).
>> *Associate a pharmacy with an OSM database object. This marks it as "found".
>> *Export a GPX with all the missing pharmacies.
>>
>> Apologies for the minimalist appearance of the site. I will get around to
>> tarting it up some time... I also wrote the code to apply to other data sets
>> - watch this space. We are actually lacking most pharmacies in Kent. On the
>> other hand, OSM has one or two that the KCC data set doesn't (in new
>> estates). This site should help everybody find them.
>
> This is splendid. I've thought we should have something reusable like
> this, since the cycle-shop finder, but don't have the coding skills to
> JFDI.
>
> Is this Kent council data, or NHS? Can't we get national data on
> phramacies from the latter?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[Andy Allan]

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 1:33 PM, TimSC  wrote:

> Any comments?

I think this approach of dealing with external datasets (compare with
OSM, matching, and informing mappers of discrepancies) is the right
direction - see also the Bike Shop Locator [1] that Shaun and I put
together last year. A further step in the process is tightening the
feedback loop between such comparison websites and editing OSM - for
example, there is a "missing bike shop" layer available in Potlatch2
which fetches data from the BSL app[2], although this layer isn't
enabled in the default p2 build.

I'm hoping to revitalise this approach over the next couple of months,
and it's great to see more effort along the same lines.

Cheers,
Andy

[1] http://shaunmcdonald.dev.openstreetmap.org/bike-shop-locator/
[2] http://gitorious.org/bike-shop-locator

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Re: [Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[Andy Mabbett]

On 25 May 2011 13:33, TimSC  wrote:

> I was thinking about Kent's open data and how we can improve our mapping.
> I've been talking to Gregory about missing schools but for some reason, I
> chose to look at pharmacies. I was partly inspired by Draco's post box
> locator [1]. I thought I could do a web 2.0 annotation of the pharmacy data
> set and allow adding links into the OSM database. This is the result.
>
> http://toolserver.org/~timsc/locateservices/view.php
>
> On this site you can:
>
> *Geolocate pharmacies on NPE, OS7, StreetView, OSM, given their rough
> initial positions from the original data set (I am guessing the initial
> position is simply the postcode centre).
> *Associate a pharmacy with an OSM database object. This marks it as "found".
> *Export a GPX with all the missing pharmacies.
>
> Apologies for the minimalist appearance of the site. I will get around to
> tarting it up some time... I also wrote the code to apply to other data sets
> - watch this space. We are actually lacking most pharmacies in Kent. On the
> other hand, OSM has one or two that the KCC data set doesn't (in new
> estates). This site should help everybody find them.

This is splendid. I've thought we should have something reusable like
this, since the cycle-shop finder, but don't have the coding skills to
JFDI.

Is this Kent council data, or NHS? Can't we get national data on
phramacies from the latter?


-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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[Talk-GB] Kent Pharmacy, OSM Validation

[TimSC]

Hi all,

I was thinking about Kent's open data and how we can improve our 
mapping. I've been talking to Gregory about missing schools but for some 
reason, I chose to look at pharmacies. I was partly inspired by Draco's 
post box locator [1]. I thought I could do a web 2.0 annotation of the 
pharmacy data set and allow adding links into the OSM database. This is 
the result.


http://toolserver.org/~timsc/locateservices/view.php

On this site you can:

*Geolocate pharmacies on NPE, OS7, StreetView, OSM, given their rough 
initial positions from the original data set (I am guessing the initial 
position is simply the postcode centre).

*Associate a pharmacy with an OSM database object. This marks it as "found".
*Export a GPX with all the missing pharmacies.

Apologies for the minimalist appearance of the site. I will get around 
to tarting it up some time... I also wrote the code to apply to other 
data sets - watch this space. We are actually lacking most pharmacies in 
Kent. On the other hand, OSM has one or two that the KCC data set 
doesn't (in new estates). This site should help everybody find them.


Any comments?

TimSC

[1] http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/


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