Re: [Talk-GB] UK style rendering port ...
I hope this can be done, too, if it makes it easier to be much more responsive about making the renderer respect best UK tagging practice. One of the reasons, IMO, that its difficult to prevent people tagging for the renderer, is that there currently seems to be little attempt, when a tagging scheme is devised, to consider whether and how the results of such tagging should be made visible on the map, and then to get any necessary renderer changes implemented. -- Cheers, John ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Survey: A UK/GB OpenStreetMap group?
All, Last chance to fill in the UK/GB OSM group survey if you have not already done so. I aim to release the results soon along with suggestions on how we should proceed. This second stage will allow for more comment than the initial survey (with the survey results acting to support any commentary). Best, Rob On 11 July 2015 at 21:19, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: Dear UK/GB OpenStreetMappers, From time to time we talk about the potential of setting up a UK/GB OpenStreetMap group (name yet to be decided) but we never quite know what it should look like. Survey time!! Please fill in the following 2 minute survey: http://goo.gl/forms/Z797QhC27c Your responses to page 1 will be shared when we close the survey (in a few weeks). If you respond to the optional page 2 questions (your details), your responses will be used for the purpose of administrating the group only (they will only be seen by myself and any designated administrator should a UK/GB group be set up). So stop reading and go to the survey: http://goo.gl/forms/Z797QhC27c Best regards and happy mapping, Rob ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK style rendering port ...
Completely agree with Richard, New rendering styles are a chance to start afresh with the technologies perspectives from 10 (or 11) years worth of experience. This does not just mean vector tiles (although my feeling is these are still 'bleeding-edge'), but also potentially more use of LUA and/or more complex database-side post-processing: this is particularly true when considering rendering a smaller area such as Britain Ireland., where the constraints of database update are less overwhelming. There are plenty of trivial things which can be done now with a new render which are harder for existing styles: such as making use of the hstore column. A much tougher thing to try would be to find a way to include more of the mapping community in establishing what is wanted: not just vociferous voices on the mailing list github, nor the bias inherent in a 'do-ocracy'. Jerry On 27 July 2015 at 08:43, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Lester Caine wrote: The other area that I am looking to roll back First, I wouldn't think in terms of rolling back at all. Cartography for a UK tileset could and should be designed from scratch. If you really want to start with an existing tileset then use OSM Bright, not osm-carto, but I'm not convinced that's necessary. We're much more likely to get a coherent, UK-friendly style by thinking about it from first principles than by adapting osm-carto with its eight-year heritage (and all the attendant compromises). Second, let's not start with raster rendering. Let's build this as a vector tileset from the start, with in-browser/on-device rendering. Vectors have lighter infrastructure needs, and enable clickable POIs and on-the-fly restyling. The UK is small enough that we could just run it through tilemaker (https://github.com/systemed/tilemaker) without the need for a complex stack. The two disadvantages are that the very oldest browsers will struggle, and that (for now) minutely updates don't happen unless you build that complex stack - but that's fine, we still have osm-carto for instant feedback. Let's build tomorrow's map, not yesterday's; and who knows, maybe osm-carto might want to borrow from some of our advances in months to come! Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/UK-style-rendering-port-tp5850972p5850975.html Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] UK style rendering port ...
With the discussion on a more self contained 'UK' group I'd like to highlight one area that is becoming perhaps more urgent for some of us, the idea of a UK style tile set. With the current push to make the default mapping more 'google like', retaining the UK colour coding for roads is something I feel many of us wish to retain, but there is no need to force that on the rest of the world. While I've not actually looked, and it's not easy to find them, I have seen links to other 'local' styles and this is exactly what OSM is about. Some aspects of the proposed changes do make sense, but I feel that comparisons with google are a little unfair since google still does not nearly as much low level detail anyway. A single style is never going to be ideal, and so I'm actually thinking that two or three base tile sets actually makes a lot more sense. Keeping the UK road colours is the obvious starting point, The other area that I am looking to roll back is some of the agresive changes to town centres. I'm still getting complaints about where names now appear on shops, or rather on adjacent shops and tidying this up probably applies world wide, but the much more abstract layout of buildings in many UK towns does not lend itself to a style that assumes a more geometric layout. Finally landmarks such as some of the viaducts and other now 'retasked' structures which are perhaps more prevalent in the UK are an area where a more local treatment may be more appropriate? That the world map is going to evolve on a more generic basis is a given so I feel now is the time to be looking at a more local alternative. At one time I did have my own tile server and OSRM routing service running but it needs more resources than I can put up on my own to be more generally available. I have space on a site with a large pipe, but I would prefer to see perhaps a more distributed model where several sites mirror the same tile set and hopefully historic overlays ... another area that needs a little more locally based support. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK style rendering port ...
Lester Caine wrote: The other area that I am looking to roll back First, I wouldn't think in terms of rolling back at all. Cartography for a UK tileset could and should be designed from scratch. If you really want to start with an existing tileset then use OSM Bright, not osm-carto, but I'm not convinced that's necessary. We're much more likely to get a coherent, UK-friendly style by thinking about it from first principles than by adapting osm-carto with its eight-year heritage (and all the attendant compromises). Second, let's not start with raster rendering. Let's build this as a vector tileset from the start, with in-browser/on-device rendering. Vectors have lighter infrastructure needs, and enable clickable POIs and on-the-fly restyling. The UK is small enough that we could just run it through tilemaker (https://github.com/systemed/tilemaker) without the need for a complex stack. The two disadvantages are that the very oldest browsers will struggle, and that (for now) minutely updates don't happen unless you build that complex stack - but that's fine, we still have osm-carto for instant feedback. Let's build tomorrow's map, not yesterday's; and who knows, maybe osm-carto might want to borrow from some of our advances in months to come! Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/UK-style-rendering-port-tp5850972p5850975.html Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK style rendering port ...
The French style: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/ (mainly icons as far as I know) The German style: http://openstreetmap.de/karte.html (different rendering technology, different road styles, though they want to convert the renderer (style specification) to the same as osm.org) As far as I understood some people from France and Germany are working on a vector tile server. Can't find the link to mail in the French mailing list though. regards On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: With the discussion on a more self contained 'UK' group I'd like to highlight one area that is becoming perhaps more urgent for some of us, the idea of a UK style tile set. With the current push to make the default mapping more 'google like', retaining the UK colour coding for roads is something I feel many of us wish to retain, but there is no need to force that on the rest of the world. While I've not actually looked, and it's not easy to find them, I have seen links to other 'local' styles and this is exactly what OSM is about. Some aspects of the proposed changes do make sense, but I feel that comparisons with google are a little unfair since google still does not nearly as much low level detail anyway. A single style is never going to be ideal, and so I'm actually thinking that two or three base tile sets actually makes a lot more sense. Keeping the UK road colours is the obvious starting point, The other area that I am looking to roll back is some of the agresive changes to town centres. I'm still getting complaints about where names now appear on shops, or rather on adjacent shops and tidying this up probably applies world wide, but the much more abstract layout of buildings in many UK towns does not lend itself to a style that assumes a more geometric layout. Finally landmarks such as some of the viaducts and other now 'retasked' structures which are perhaps more prevalent in the UK are an area where a more local treatment may be more appropriate? That the world map is going to evolve on a more generic basis is a given so I feel now is the time to be looking at a more local alternative. At one time I did have my own tile server and OSRM routing service running but it needs more resources than I can put up on my own to be more generally available. I have space on a site with a large pipe, but I would prefer to see perhaps a more distributed model where several sites mirror the same tile set and hopefully historic overlays ... another area that needs a little more locally based support. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK style rendering port ...
On 27 July 2015 at 09:06, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: With the discussion on a more self contained 'UK' group I'd like to highlight one area that is becoming perhaps more urgent for some of us, the idea of a UK style tile set. I also think it's a good idea for the UK to create there own rendering server, just like German/France/the Netherlands have their own rendering servers. I agree this is getting even more urgent now the default rendering is becoming less UK-centric. If you would like any technical help with this, please let me know and I'll try to assist where I can. One thing I'd like to warn for is not to underestimate the time it takes to create a rendering, or even to make changes to an existing rendering. I hope this project will be a success, and indeed I look forward to the moment the default style can start borrowing idea from the UK style! In the past - in the past we have already been borrowing ideas from the French rendering. -- Matthijs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK style rendering port ...
On 27/07/15 08:43, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Lester Caine wrote: The other area that I am looking to roll back First, I wouldn't think in terms of rolling back at all. Cartography for a UK tileset could and should be designed from scratch. If you really want to start with an existing tileset then use OSM Bright, not osm-carto, but I'm not convinced that's necessary. We're much more likely to get a coherent, UK-friendly style by thinking about it from first principles than by adapting osm-carto with its eight-year heritage (and all the attendant compromises). Second, let's not start with raster rendering. Let's build this as a vector tileset from the start, with in-browser/on-device rendering. Vectors have lighter infrastructure needs, and enable clickable POIs and on-the-fly restyling. The UK is small enough that we could just run it through tilemaker (https://github.com/systemed/tilemaker) without the need for a complex stack. The two disadvantages are that the very oldest browsers will struggle, and that (for now) minutely updates don't happen unless you build that complex stack - but that's fine, we still have osm-carto for instant feedback. Let's build tomorrow's map, not yesterday's; and who knows, maybe osm-carto might want to borrow from some of our advances in months to come! Richard ... that is exactly the sort of help I was looking for. I've spent the last couple of years trying to keep clients websites working given all of the crap going on in browsers and the other infrastructure, so I've been reliant on things like OSM 'just working'. I NEED to get OSMAND set up properly for UK use ... it's current routing rules just do not work around here ... and that shows what can be done. But I still see a place for a traditional tile set which I use for location maps on the websites, and it's this changing that is causing the current 'complaints' where we had local detail added which no longer renders nicely. My only problem is conflicts with bloody 'boost' and lua has been fun as well ... everybody seems to feel the whole infrastructure needs changing while I'm still on a PHP/C++ base :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
