Re: [Talk-GB] Rendering of layers

[David Woolley]

On 21/01/16 10:12, Stuart Reynolds wrote:

The buildings are all mapped as layer=1, and the platforms without any
layer tag (which should default them to layer=0, AFAIK). So why are the
platforms and rail tracks (which I haven’t touched) been rendered over
the buildings, rather than under them?



I believe that was a policy decision.  Probably because platforms, 
including underground ones, are considered more important that the 
station buildings.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Rendering of layers

[Brian Prangle]

Hi Stuart

The rendered layering of platforms just doesn't happen. Caused me a lot of
grief with Birmingham New Street - so I switched to using levels  and using
Adrien Pavie's OpenLevelUp which allows you to zoom up and down through
building floors. Here's what New St looks like
.
Slider is on the top left of the screen

Regards

Brian


On 21 January 2016 at 10:12, Stuart Reynolds <
stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I made a number of adjustments around the transport terminus at Gatwick
> Airport South Terminal yesterday. When this was first mapped, what is
> actually three buildings (the railway station, the covered travelators from
> the bus station & car parks, and the southern stairs from the railway
> platforms) were all mapped as one building, and the platforms were
> “inserts” into the gaps rather than being the continuous entities that they
> are. So I have separated those all out, and made the platforms a continuous
> block. I also added internal escalators and travelators, although that is
> immaterial to the question that I’m about to ask.
>
> The buildings are all mapped as layer=1, and the platforms without any
> layer tag (which should default them to layer=0, AFAIK). So why are the
> platforms and rail tracks (which I haven’t touched) been rendered over the
> buildings, rather than under them?
>
> See http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.15634/-0.16124
>
> Thanks
> Stuart
>
>
> 
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east & anglia
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMSchools - Tagging question Outdoor Education Centre

[alasdair]

Mentioning Plas-y-Brenin brought the Scottish equivalent, Glenmore Lodge
to mind so I checked how that was tagged, just a generic building so
that was no use.

  I also looked at a couple of other outdoors centres I recall from
schooldays, Benmore and Dounans, one was a building and one a school. So
certainly up here in Scotland there doesn't seem to be an appropriate
tag in use. 

I like amenity=outdoor_education_centre as a generic enough name that
conveys the purpose and signifies that it isn't a school or a leisure
centre.

Al.
On 21/01/2016 12:47, SK53 wrote:

> A quick check on taginfo only directed me to one Outward Bound centre (that 
> in Eskdale Green), and that is just tagged as a building. They have 6 
> centres. Another organisation rather different in scope is the Field Studies 
> Council with around 12 centres. Provision by LEA is declining (the Castleton 
> centre is now a Youth Hostel), but better off schools will often have their 
> own dedicated centre. Plas-y-Brenin [1], which is more directly sport 
> oriented, is only mapped as buildings..
> 
> These are fairly distinct institutions with a mix of education & leisure 
> objectives: with their primary role being education (certainly from a 
> financial perspective & the need to have instructors DBS (CRB) checked). If 
> we had a widely used top-level education key, I'd use that, but as most, if 
> not all, education-related places use the amenity key, that's where I'd 
> start. So I'd suggest something like amenity=outdoor_education_centre or 
> amenity=outdoor_learning_centre. Sub-tagging could be used to distinguish 
> those with a bent towards physical activities versus those which do field 
> study.
> 
> Plas-y-Brenin does fit the leisure=sports_centre suggested by DanS.
> 
> There must be at least a hundred, if not several hundred such facilities in 
> the UK. I'm aware of similar places in many alpine villages in the Swiss Alps 
> (e.g., a " Ferien- und Schulungszentrum" near Ilanz), and passed the "Maison 
> des Salines" [2] in Brittany, shortly after SotM-France. ( The latter appears 
> to be used as a Colonie des Vacances, so I tagged this as 
> leisure=holiday_camp.). Therefore I would think there are good reasons not to 
> try & coerce these places into an existing tagging scheme.
> 
> In addition to ones providing accommodation & classroom facilites, many 
> wildlife trusts, and similar bodies, have smaller centres for non residential 
> courses. Ones I know well are: Attenborough Nature Centre, Idle Valley Rural 
> Learning Centre [3], and the Wyre Forest Discovery Centre [4]. Many of these 
> will share a building with a cafe and shop and perhaps other facilities.
> 
> On a closing note, one of my favourite such places at Gibraltar Point, which 
> I stayed at as recently as November 2012, was wrecked by a storm surge in 
> 2013 [5].
> 
> Jerry 
> 
> On 21 January 2016 at 08:10, Dan S  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I don't have a good answer, but I had a similar problem when trying to
>> tag a "Go Ape" outdoor centre last year. If you search for "Go Ape"
>> you find many different taggings around the country, including:
>> 
>> leisure=sports_centre
>> tourism=attraction
>> tourism=theme_park
>> leisure=high_ropes_course
>> leisure=playground
>> 
>> Possibly one of the top three is suitable for this? I'd like to hear
>> what other people think.
>> 
>> Best
>> Dan
>> 
>> 2016-01-20 23:17 GMT+00:00  :
>>> Hi again,
>>> 
>>> thanks for the responses to my last question.
>>> 
>>> I'm now trying to correct the tagging for an Outdoor Education Centre. It
>>> has been tagged (understandably in my point of view) as amenity=school but
>>> obviously isn't a school. So the question is, what should it be tagged as?
>>> I've looked through the wiki and can't see anything relevant but I'm aware
>>> that the knowledge in this group sometimes surpasses that of the wiki.
>>> 
>>> The centre in question is Lagganlia http://www.lagganlia.com/ near Aviemore
>>> in the Highlands which is owned by City of Edinburgh. I fondly remember
>>> going there 3 or 4 times for Geography field trips and school skiing weeks
>>> 20 years ago.
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance for your help.
>>> 
>>> Al.
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Links:
--
[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/374805099#map=18/53.10222/-3.91711
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/94079741
[3] http://www.nnc.ac.uk/idle-valley-rural-learning-centre
[4] http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-6frd7h
[5] http://www.lincstrust.org.uk/gibraltar-point

Re: [Talk-GB] OSMSchools - Tagging question Outdoor Education Centre

[SK53]

A quick check on taginfo only directed me to one Outward Bound centre (that
in Eskdale Green), and that is just tagged as a building. They have 6
centres. Another organisation rather different in scope is the Field
Studies Council with around 12 centres. Provision by LEA is declining (the
Castleton centre is now a Youth Hostel), but better off schools will often
have their own dedicated centre. Plas-y-Brenin
,
which is more directly sport oriented, is only mapped as buildings..

These are fairly distinct institutions with a mix of education & leisure
objectives: with their primary role being education (certainly from a
financial perspective & the need to have instructors DBS (CRB) checked). If
we had a widely used top-level education key, I'd use that, but as most, if
not all, education-related places use the amenity key, that's where I'd
start. So I'd suggest something like amenity=outdoor_education_centre or
amenity=outdoor_learning_centre. Sub-tagging could be used to distinguish
those with a bent towards physical activities versus those which do field
study.

Plas-y-Brenin does fit the leisure=sports_centre suggested by DanS.

There must be at least a hundred, if not several hundred such facilities in
the UK. I'm aware of similar places in many alpine villages in the Swiss
Alps (e.g., a " Ferien- und Schulungszentrum" near Ilanz), and passed
the "Maison
des Salines"  in Brittany,
shortly after SotM-France. ( The latter appears to be used as a Colonie des
Vacances, so I tagged this as leisure=holiday_camp.). Therefore I would
think there are good reasons not to try & coerce these places into an
existing tagging scheme.

In addition to ones providing accommodation & classroom facilites, many
wildlife trusts, and similar bodies, have smaller centres for non
residential courses. Ones I know well are: Attenborough Nature Centre, Idle
Valley Rural Learning Centre
, and the Wyre
Forest Discovery Centre .
Many of these will share a building with a cafe and shop and perhaps other
facilities.

On a closing note, one of my favourite such places at Gibraltar Point,
which I stayed at as recently as November 2012, was wrecked by a storm
surge in 2013 .

Jerry

On 21 January 2016 at 08:10, Dan S  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't have a good answer, but I had a similar problem when trying to
> tag a "Go Ape" outdoor centre last year. If you search for "Go Ape"
> you find many different taggings around the country, including:
>
> leisure=sports_centre
> tourism=attraction
> tourism=theme_park
> leisure=high_ropes_course
> leisure=playground
>
> Possibly one of the top three is suitable for this? I'd like to hear
> what other people think.
>
> Best
> Dan
>
> 2016-01-20 23:17 GMT+00:00  :
> > Hi again,
> >
> > thanks for the responses to my last question.
> >
> > I'm now trying to correct the tagging for an Outdoor Education Centre. It
> > has been tagged (understandably in my point of view) as amenity=school
> but
> > obviously isn't a school. So the question is, what should it be tagged
> as?
> > I've looked through the wiki and can't see anything relevant but I'm
> aware
> > that the knowledge in this group sometimes surpasses that of the wiki.
> >
> > The centre in question is Lagganlia http://www.lagganlia.com/ near
> Aviemore
> > in the Highlands which is owned by City of Edinburgh. I fondly remember
> > going there 3 or 4 times for Geography field trips and school skiing
> weeks
> > 20 years ago.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
> >
> > Al.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> >
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Rendering of layers

[Richard Mann]

I'm not sure Reading is good, it's just a different approach.

Buildings (and indeed most areas) are typically rendered below lines, for
various practical reasons. So maybe it is better to think of building as
the ground-coverage, rather than the usable floor (or roof).

You might want to put covered=yes on the lines as they pass underneath
(this is what is done for covered walkways between buildings, for
instance). But anything is likely to be a compromise. Look at other
stations and see what seems to work best.

Richard

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Reynolds <
stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:

> Personally I think that Reading is cheating.
>
> The outline that is called the railway station “building” includes the
> ticket halls, the bridge, and the platform surfaces to the extent that
> these stick out of the bridge area. I don’t agree with this - the last time
> I looked, a platform wasn’t a building; it is a platform. I would expect
> this to be a site relation - and in fact, Euston appears to be mapped that
> way, so it doesn’t look like I’m a million miles out with that thought.
>
> Next, the individual “platforms" have been mapped as edges alongside the
> satellite-visible parts of the platform areas. The platforms in OSM don’t
> extend under the footbridge - when in reality they do. Again, at Euston the
> platforms are areas (split in half to allow tagging of each platform
> number). Yes the bridge at Reading is marked as a bridge, which it allows
> it to go over the tracks. But it really is a bridge at Reading. At Gatwick
> it is a whole building over the tracks.
>
> So, to me, Reading looks like it has been mapped for the renderer, rather
> than representing what is physically on the ground.
>
> Regards
> Stuart
>
>
> 
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east & anglia
>
>
>
> On 21 Jan 2016, at 10:34, Richard Mann 
> wrote:
>
> Compare Reading - are you mapping a roof or a groundplan, or a pedestrian
> bridge?
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Stuart Reynolds <
> stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I made a number of adjustments around the transport terminus at Gatwick
>> Airport South Terminal yesterday. When this was first mapped, what is
>> actually three buildings (the railway station, the covered travelators from
>> the bus station & car parks, and the southern stairs from the railway
>> platforms) were all mapped as one building, and the platforms were
>> “inserts” into the gaps rather than being the continuous entities that they
>> are. So I have separated those all out, and made the platforms a continuous
>> block. I also added internal escalators and travelators, although that is
>> immaterial to the question that I’m about to ask.
>>
>> The buildings are all mapped as layer=1, and the platforms without any
>> layer tag (which should default them to layer=0, AFAIK). So why are the
>> platforms and rail tracks (which I haven’t touched) been rendered over the
>> buildings, rather than under them?
>>
>> See http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.15634/-0.16124
>>
>> Thanks
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>> 
>> Stuart Reynolds
>> for traveline south east & anglia
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Rendering of layers

[Stuart Reynolds]

Personally I think that Reading is cheating.

The outline that is called the railway station “building” includes the ticket 
halls, the bridge, and the platform surfaces to the extent that these stick out 
of the bridge area. I don’t agree with this - the last time I looked, a 
platform wasn’t a building; it is a platform. I would expect this to be a site 
relation - and in fact, Euston appears to be mapped that way, so it doesn’t 
look like I’m a million miles out with that thought.

Next, the individual “platforms" have been mapped as edges alongside the 
satellite-visible parts of the platform areas. The platforms in OSM don’t 
extend under the footbridge - when in reality they do. Again, at Euston the 
platforms are areas (split in half to allow tagging of each platform number). 
Yes the bridge at Reading is marked as a bridge, which it allows it to go over 
the tracks. But it really is a bridge at Reading. At Gatwick it is a whole 
building over the tracks.

So, to me, Reading looks like it has been mapped for the renderer, rather than 
representing what is physically on the ground.

Regards
Stuart



Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia



On 21 Jan 2016, at 10:34, Richard Mann 
mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:

Compare Reading - are you mapping a roof or a groundplan, or a pedestrian 
bridge?

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Stuart Reynolds 
mailto:stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk>> 
wrote:
Hi,

I made a number of adjustments around the transport terminus at Gatwick Airport 
South Terminal yesterday. When this was first mapped, what is actually three 
buildings (the railway station, the covered travelators from the bus station & 
car parks, and the southern stairs from the railway platforms) were all mapped 
as one building, and the platforms were “inserts” into the gaps rather than 
being the continuous entities that they are. So I have separated those all out, 
and made the platforms a continuous block. I also added internal escalators and 
travelators, although that is immaterial to the question that I’m about to ask.

The buildings are all mapped as layer=1, and the platforms without any layer 
tag (which should default them to layer=0, AFAIK). So why are the platforms and 
rail tracks (which I haven’t touched) been rendered over the buildings, rather 
than under them?

See http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.15634/-0.16124

Thanks
Stuart



Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia




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Re: [Talk-GB] Rendering of layers

[Richard Mann]

Compare Reading - are you mapping a roof or a groundplan, or a pedestrian
bridge?

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Stuart Reynolds <
stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I made a number of adjustments around the transport terminus at Gatwick
> Airport South Terminal yesterday. When this was first mapped, what is
> actually three buildings (the railway station, the covered travelators from
> the bus station & car parks, and the southern stairs from the railway
> platforms) were all mapped as one building, and the platforms were
> “inserts” into the gaps rather than being the continuous entities that they
> are. So I have separated those all out, and made the platforms a continuous
> block. I also added internal escalators and travelators, although that is
> immaterial to the question that I’m about to ask.
>
> The buildings are all mapped as layer=1, and the platforms without any
> layer tag (which should default them to layer=0, AFAIK). So why are the
> platforms and rail tracks (which I haven’t touched) been rendered over the
> buildings, rather than under them?
>
> See http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.15634/-0.16124
>
> Thanks
> Stuart
>
>
> 
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east & anglia
>
>
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Rendering of layers

[Stuart Reynolds]

Hi,

I made a number of adjustments around the transport terminus at Gatwick Airport 
South Terminal yesterday. When this was first mapped, what is actually three 
buildings (the railway station, the covered travelators from the bus station & 
car parks, and the southern stairs from the railway platforms) were all mapped 
as one building, and the platforms were “inserts” into the gaps rather than 
being the continuous entities that they are. So I have separated those all out, 
and made the platforms a continuous block. I also added internal escalators and 
travelators, although that is immaterial to the question that I’m about to ask.

The buildings are all mapped as layer=1, and the platforms without any layer 
tag (which should default them to layer=0, AFAIK). So why are the platforms and 
rail tracks (which I haven’t touched) been rendered over the buildings, rather 
than under them?

See http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.15634/-0.16124

Thanks
Stuart



Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia



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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMSchools - Tagging question Outdoor Education Centre

[Dan S]

Hi,

I don't have a good answer, but I had a similar problem when trying to
tag a "Go Ape" outdoor centre last year. If you search for "Go Ape"
you find many different taggings around the country, including:

leisure=sports_centre
tourism=attraction
tourism=theme_park
leisure=high_ropes_course
leisure=playground

Possibly one of the top three is suitable for this? I'd like to hear
what other people think.

Best
Dan

2016-01-20 23:17 GMT+00:00  :
> Hi again,
>
> thanks for the responses to my last question.
>
> I'm now trying to correct the tagging for an Outdoor Education Centre. It
> has been tagged (understandably in my point of view) as amenity=school but
> obviously isn't a school. So the question is, what should it be tagged as?
> I've looked through the wiki and can't see anything relevant but I'm aware
> that the knowledge in this group sometimes surpasses that of the wiki.
>
> The centre in question is Lagganlia http://www.lagganlia.com/ near Aviemore
> in the Highlands which is owned by City of Edinburgh. I fondly remember
> going there 3 or 4 times for Geography field trips and school skiing weeks
> 20 years ago.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Al.
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>

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