Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[ndrw6]

On 02/10/2019 14:20, Chris Hill wrote:


I would not like to see that happen. OSM maps real objects, postcodes 
are not real and only apply as a part of an object's address. They 
apply to buildings (delivery points on buildings really). The 
postcodes in Codepoint Open are centroids derived from a combination 
of all the delivery points that share the postcode so are not at all 
real-world objects.


Points with addr:* tags are commonly in use and accepted, there is no 
reason why addr:postcode would have to be different. When possible I 
also prefer tagging addresses on buildings or building:part but there 
are multiple conventions in use (points, points+interpolation, points on 
entrances).


If you want to apply postcodes to addresses you can see the map 
overlay I have produced which you can use in editors as an overlay: 
https://codepoint.raggedred.net/  I will update it again shortly. You 
can also derive postcodes from other open data sources such as FHRS data.


Thank you. I've been using your overlays a lot. However, given a choice, 
I would much more prefer a periodic, maintained import. Much less prone 
to errors, more up to date and easier to merge with buildings, if needed.


ndrw6



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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[ndrw6]

On 02/10/2019 13:43, Russ Phillips via Talk-GB wrote:
I'm wondering if it would be feasible and advisable to import the UK 
postcode data from OS OpenData Codepoint 
. 



I support it. From my own experience, requests like this tend to attract 
objections, so it is important for people who agree with such proposals 
to speak out.


The key and, in my opinion, sufficient reasons for importing postcodes:

- Objectively, postcodes are an important type of addressing and 
geocoding data in the UK. We've had two quarterly projects encouraging 
adding postcodes to the OSM database. Some people (including myself) 
don't like the fact the postcodes are proprietary to Royal Mail but we 
are here to map the world, not to judge it.


- They are accepted in the OSM database and there is no tagging 
ambiguity. Their place is _in_ the OSM database, not in external 
overlays. They are searchable in most applications (OsmAnd, Maps.me), 
the exception is Nominatim, which uses an outdated overlay but this is 
more a workaround for lack of such data in the database, than a solution.


- Code-Point Open is a legal and open source of postcode data. In fact 
it is the _only_ legal source of such data in bulk. All other sources 
are either derived from CPO or are based on local knowledge.


All reasons _against_ the import I've seen so far are based on personal 
preferences. People are objecting because they don't like the idea of 
proprietary address data, do not find them important enough, do not find 
them comprehensive enough. These views are useful in establishing the 
context but are not a reason to block the import of what _is_ available.


Talking about technical aspects:

- The key (and deliberate) limitation Code-Point Open is that it doesn't 
distinguish between residential postcodes and postcodes assigned to 
"large users". This is not ideal but still useful - we know the postcode 
exists at a given location, we just can't be sure if it is the only 
postcode there.


- Quality of building in OSM database. Large buildings, especially in 
town centres, are often not partitioned correctly. Different parts may 
have different street names and postcodes. Code-Point Open may in fact 
be helpful in finding and correcting such issues.


- Some postcodes are for PO boxes (usually collocated with post offices) 
are are best left out.


My recommendation: import missing postcodes "as is" (as points) with 
extra tags denoting the import, import date and an accuracy metric from 
CPO. Keep it searchable and easy to remove or update, if necessary. 
Code-Point Open is updated quarterly and sometimes centroids move to 
another building. Filter out PO boxes and postcodes which are already in 
OSM (I usually check if there is an OSM object with a matching 
addr:postcode within a 10m radius of the code point). Do not attempt to 
merge them with buildings as it is not guaranteed to work in all cases. 
This is best done manually and in some cases it may require a survey.


Best regards,

ndrw6



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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK volunteers required

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Edward,

Sorry for the slow reply, you caught me at a busy time.

I think 2 and 3 are quite similar. Perhaps you could argue that 3 is more
focused on non public sector. Maybe we get improved content on our website
and  some leaflets ready (if needed) and then start sharing that content.
It might also include building our contacts so that we can answer more of
the questions we may receive.

The lobby element in 3 is possibly more focused on public sector. We've
made a start over the last year by responding to the government's
Geospatial Commission. Next steps would be to keep an eye out for similar
consultation opportunities whilst also looking for other avenues to do
direct promotion of OSM.

In any case across 2 and 3 we want to consider both public and private
sector - we'd like OSM to be embedded within all sectors.

As for 1, we've put out a call for ideas on the loomio group. Next step is
to see what contacts we have and start approaching them. I think it will be
easier if we have existing relationships but if not then we should try from
scratch.

So in summary it's quite an open scope. Ideas and suggestions welcome and
let's take it forward from there.

I'd be happy to take more questions on email or arrange a quick chat /
call. Let me know what works for you.

Best regards,
Rob

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019, 09:09 Edward Bainton,  wrote:

> Thank you, I think I could do a bit on 1, 2, and/or 3.
>
> 1, 3. Do you have brief case studies you could share as examples of what
> you're looking for?
>
> 2. Could you clarify what a 'lobby group' would lobby for?
>
> Thanks and best wishes
>
> Edward
>
>
>
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 22:33, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Last month OSM UK (the non-profit community interest company) set out
>> it's strategy areas for the 2019/20 year. We have made a start on these but
>> a bit more volunteer time will allow us to speed them up.
>>
>> If you could volunteer some time for any of the following, please let me
>> know. Each requires some initial planning before implementing solutions.
>> Help at either stage is appreciated.
>>
>>1. Use the quarterly projects to partner with another organisation to
>>leverage their membership/supporters.
>>2. Pursue a role as a lobby group. That is, getting OSM on the radar
>>of large organisations.
>>3. Proactive outreach to businesses, organisations and academia to
>>show them a front door to using and contributing to OSM.
>>4. Enhance / nurture the Talent Directory.
>>5. Help shape tagging guidelines.
>>6. Develop guidelines to work out when OSM UK should and should not
>>support a mechanical edit / data import.
>>7. A micro-grant programme to support those who want to help us grow
>>the community via talks, workshops, etc.
>>8. Focus on map fixes (e.g. a quarterly project on Notes, Fixmes).
>>9. Assist with conflating TfL Cycle Infrastructure Data into OSM
>>
>> Thank you,
>> *Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[Russ Phillips via Talk-GB]

I didn't even know there was an OsmAnd forum ;) I'll go look for it, thanks.

Russ

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On 2 Oct 2019, 16:47, at 16:47, Nick Allen  wrote:
>Hi Russ,
>
>Somewhere in tbe Osmand forum you should find a link for a postcode
>player
>you can download & use. I think it was Harry, one of the main people
>answering queries who produced it.
>
>Regards
>
>Nick
>my phone is responsible for any spelling mistakes!
>
>On Wed, 2 Oct 2019, 17:12 Russ Phillips via Talk-GB, <
>talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> OsmAnd is what made me think of it. I'm using that for directions a
>lot
>> now, and it's common these days to give a postcode to plug into a sat
>nav,
>> but they frequently don't work in OsmAnd.
>>
>> I was somewhat surprised that it hadn't already been done, and I
>accept
>> all the reasons for not doing it.
>>
>> I'll look into alternatives.
>>
>> Russ
>>
>>
>> On 02/10/2019 15:52, SK53 wrote:
>>
>> I really see no point. The data are already present in Nominatim
>(albeit
>> perhaps not up-to-date) and search is the ONLY thing that so-called
>> postcode centroids can help with. DE24 (Sinfin) was imported long
>ago, see
>> this overpass query .
>>
>> What can be done is attempt to assign postcodes to streets, and
>various
>> incomplete efforts have been made over the years. Open Data provides
>full
>> addresses for around 70% of UK postcodes (principally Companies
>House, Food
>> Hygiene & National Register of Social Housing).
>>
>> What would be useful is a maintained set of postcode information
>based on
>> codepoint open/ONS postcode data/OS Local. The sorts of things which
>it
>> would be useful to know are:
>>
>>- Is the postcode centroid co-located with others (e.g., delivery
>>offices, some businesses, blocks of flats)
>>- Can the postcode be unambiguously assigned to a street & post
>town?
>>- Is the post code in use or not (ONS is now obviously 8 years
>old,
>>but still potentially useful). Greg's FHRS tracker does appear to
>indicate
>>a degree of churn with inner-city postcodes (although some of this
>will be
>>inadvertent use of more general rather than specific postcodes by
>people
>>filling in the FHRS forms)
>>- Is a postcode the sole postcode for that street?
>>
>> Somewhere I have an old CPO table with some of this data populated. I
>> think Geolytix had summary info associated with their post code
>sector
>> shape files as well.
>>
>> Adding addr:postcode to streets which have a single postcode is in my
>book
>> fine: numerous LAs put this on street signs (Rushcliffe & Gedling for
>> sure); it's an intermediate step to adding the addresses to houses
>Once
>> the postcodes which obviously belong to a single street are
>eliminated it's
>> often easier to work out where the others belong.
>>
>> Note that other than for FHRS we have no good source for Northern
>Ireland
>> postcodes at all. Equally assignment of rural postcodes is quite a
>bit
>> harder than urban ones. In re-reading bits of Chris's blog last night
>I
>> came across a post of his
>>  showing
>that
>> some postcodes move huge distances between releases.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> PS. The Sinfin postcodes possibly should be removed as they were
>added
>> IIRC before Mike Collinson's discussions with OSGB about OS Open
>Data.
>>
>> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 13:44, Russ Phillips via Talk-GB <
>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if it would be feasible and advisable to import the UK
>>> postcode data from OS OpenData Codepoint
>>>
>
>>> .
>>>
>>> The licence is OSM compatible. My thinking was that we could create
>a
>>> node for each data point and set the addr:postcode tag. This would
>be
>>> useful for routing software like OsmAnd, since it would allow a user
>to
>>> enter a postcode as a destination.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to do the work, but the import guidelines
>>>  say that
>imports
>>> should be discussed on the imports@ list and the appropriate local
>>> communities, hence this email.
>>>
>>> Russ Phillips
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>> ___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

I think this is a Win/JOSM problem - After pasting the URL If I move the 
cursor using the arrow keys the TMS URL is created.


Thanks
DaveF

On 02/10/2019 17:19, Chris Hill wrote:
Thanks for reporting a problem - I'll always try to respond if I can. 
The installation process has changed in the past but it looks familiar 
now.


I've just tested the installation instructions on JOSM version 15390 
and it worked as expected. The Okay button enabled when the URL (with 
https) and a name for the layer are both input, a max zoom can be 
added too.


I tried this on Mac OS and Linux and both worked. I don't have an easy 
access to Windows, but Java stuff should be cross platform I think.


You can use HTTP or HTTPS for the overlay as both are provided, I just 
think it's better to use HTTPS whenever possible.





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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[Chris Hill]

Thanks for reporting a problem - I'll always try to respond if I can. 
The installation process has changed in the past but it looks familiar now.


I've just tested the installation instructions on JOSM version 15390 and 
it worked as expected. The Okay button enabled when the URL (with https) 
and a name for the layer are both input, a max zoom can be added too.


I tried this on Mac OS and Linux and both worked. I don't have an easy 
access to Windows, but Java stuff should be cross platform I think.


You can use HTTP or HTTPS for the overlay as both are provided, I just 
think it's better to use HTTPS whenever possible.


--
cheers
Chris Hill (chillly)


On 02/10/2019 16:55, Dave F wrote:
FYI in JOSM (latest) https wont generate a TMS URL. I had to change 
the pasted URL to http & then back again. then it generated & 
'ungreyed' the Okay button. Is this expected behaviour?


On 02/10/2019 15:37, Chris Hill wrote:

Thanks,

I've just updated with August 2019 data, the next update is due in 
November I think.







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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

FYI in JOSM (latest) https wont generate a TMS URL. I had to change the 
pasted URL to http & then back again. then it generated & 'ungreyed' the 
Okay button. Is this expected behaviour?


On 02/10/2019 15:37, Chris Hill wrote:

Thanks,

I've just updated with August 2019 data, the next update is due in 
November I think.




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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[Russ Phillips via Talk-GB]

OsmAnd is what made me think of it. I'm using that for directions a lot 
now, and it's common these days to give a postcode to plug into a sat 
nav, but they frequently don't work in OsmAnd.


I was somewhat surprised that it hadn't already been done, and I accept 
all the reasons for not doing it.


I'll look into alternatives.

Russ


On 02/10/2019 15:52, SK53 wrote:
I really see no point. The data are already present in Nominatim  
(albeit perhaps not up-to-date) and search is the ONLY thing that 
so-called postcode centroids can help with. DE24 (Sinfin) was imported 
long ago, see this overpass query .


What can be done is attempt to assign postcodes to streets, and 
various incomplete efforts have been made over the years. Open Data 
provides full addresses for around 70% of UK postcodes (principally 
Companies House, Food Hygiene & National Register of Social Housing).


What would be useful is a maintained set of postcode information based 
on codepoint open/ONS postcode data/OS Local. The sorts of things 
which it would be useful to know are:


  * Is the postcode centroid co-located with others (e.g., delivery
offices, some businesses, blocks of flats)
  * Can the postcode be unambiguously assigned to a street & post town?
  * Is the post code in use or not (ONS is now obviously 8 years old,
but still potentially useful). Greg's FHRS tracker does appear to
indicate a degree of churn with inner-city postcodes (although
some of this will be inadvertent use of more general rather than
specific postcodes by people filling in the FHRS forms)
  * Is a postcode the sole postcode for that street?

Somewhere I have an old CPO table with some of this data populated. I 
think Geolytix had summary info associated with their post code sector 
shape files as well.


Adding addr:postcode to streets which have a single postcode is in my 
book fine: numerous LAs put this on street signs (Rushcliffe & Gedling 
for sure); it's an intermediate step to adding the addresses to 
houses  Once the postcodes which obviously belong to a single street 
are eliminated it's often easier to work out where the others belong.


Note that other than for FHRS we have no good source for Northern 
Ireland postcodes at all. Equally assignment of rural postcodes is 
quite a bit harder than urban ones. In re-reading bits of Chris's blog 
last night I came across a post of his 
 showing 
that some postcodes move huge distances between releases.


Jerry

PS. The Sinfin postcodes possibly should be removed as they were added 
IIRC before Mike Collinson's discussions with OSGB about OS Open Data.


On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 13:44, Russ Phillips via Talk-GB 
mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:


Hi,

I'm wondering if it would be feasible and advisable to import the
UK postcode data from OS OpenData Codepoint

.

The licence is OSM compatible. My thinking was that we could
create a node for each data point and set the addr:postcode tag.
This would be useful for routing software like OsmAnd, since it
would allow a user to enter a postcode as a destination.

I'm happy to do the work, but the import guidelines
 say that
imports should be discussed on the imports@ list and the
appropriate local communities, hence this email.

Russ Phillips


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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[SK53]

I really see no point. The data are already present in Nominatim  (albeit
perhaps not up-to-date) and search is the ONLY thing that so-called
postcode centroids can help with. DE24 (Sinfin) was imported long ago, see
this overpass query .

What can be done is attempt to assign postcodes to streets, and various
incomplete efforts have been made over the years. Open Data provides full
addresses for around 70% of UK postcodes (principally Companies House, Food
Hygiene & National Register of Social Housing).

What would be useful is a maintained set of postcode information based on
codepoint open/ONS postcode data/OS Local. The sorts of things which it
would be useful to know are:

   - Is the postcode centroid co-located with others (e.g., delivery
   offices, some businesses, blocks of flats)
   - Can the postcode be unambiguously assigned to a street & post town?
   - Is the post code in use or not (ONS is now obviously 8 years old, but
   still potentially useful). Greg's FHRS tracker does appear to indicate a
   degree of churn with inner-city postcodes (although some of this will be
   inadvertent use of more general rather than specific postcodes by people
   filling in the FHRS forms)
   - Is a postcode the sole postcode for that street?

Somewhere I have an old CPO table with some of this data populated. I think
Geolytix had summary info associated with their post code sector shape
files as well.

Adding addr:postcode to streets which have a single postcode is in my book
fine: numerous LAs put this on street signs (Rushcliffe & Gedling for
sure); it's an intermediate step to adding the addresses to houses  Once
the postcodes which obviously belong to a single street are eliminated it's
often easier to work out where the others belong.

Note that other than for FHRS we have no good source for Northern Ireland
postcodes at all. Equally assignment of rural postcodes is quite a bit
harder than urban ones. In re-reading bits of Chris's blog last night I
came across a post of his
 showing that
some postcodes move huge distances between releases.

Jerry

PS. The Sinfin postcodes possibly should be removed as they were added IIRC
before Mike Collinson's discussions with OSGB about OS Open Data.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 13:44, Russ Phillips via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering if it would be feasible and advisable to import the UK
> postcode data from OS OpenData Codepoint
> 
> .
>
> The licence is OSM compatible. My thinking was that we could create a node
> for each data point and set the addr:postcode tag. This would be useful for
> routing software like OsmAnd, since it would allow a user to enter a
> postcode as a destination.
>
> I'm happy to do the work, but the import guidelines
>  say that imports
> should be discussed on the imports@ list and the appropriate local
> communities, hence this email.
>
> Russ Phillips
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[Andy Robinson]

Cheers Chris, always mightily useful.

 

Andy

 

From: Chris Hill [mailto:o...@raggedred.net] 
Sent: 02 October 2019 15:38
To: Tony OSM; OSM Talk GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

 

Thanks,

I've just updated with August 2019 data, the next update is due in November I 
think. 

-- 
cheers
Chris Hill (chillly)

On 02/10/2019 15:24, Tony OSM wrote: 

Hi

Didn't know about your JOSM overlay - just added and it looks great.

Tony Shield (TonyS999)

On 02/10/2019 14:20, Chris Hill wrote:

I would not like to see that happen. OSM maps real objects, postcodes are not 
real and only apply as a part of an object's address. They apply to buildings 
(delivery points on buildings really). The postcodes in Codepoint Open are 
centroids derived from a combination of all the delivery points that share the 
postcode so are not at all real-world objects.

If you want to apply postcodes to addresses you can see the map overlay I have 
produced which you can use in editors as an overlay: 
https://codepoint.raggedred.net/  I will update it again shortly. You can also 
derive postcodes from other open data sources such as FHRS data. 

-- 
cheers
Chris Hill (chillly)
 

On 02/10/2019 13:43, Russ Phillips via Talk-GB wrote:

Hi,

I'm wondering if it would be feasible and advisable to import the UK postcode 
data from OS OpenData Codepoint 
 .

The licence is OSM compatible. My thinking was that we could create a node for 
each data point and set the addr:postcode tag. This would be useful for routing 
software like OsmAnd, since it would allow a user to enter a postcode as a 
destination.

I'm happy to do the work, but the import guidelines 
  say that imports 
should be discussed on the imports@ list and the appropriate local communities, 
hence this email.

Russ Phillips

 

 

-- 
cheers
Chris Hill (chillly)
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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[Chris Hill]

I would not like to see that happen. OSM maps real objects, postcodes 
are not real and only apply as a part of an object's address. They apply 
to buildings (delivery points on buildings really). The postcodes in 
Codepoint Open are centroids derived from a combination of all the 
delivery points that share the postcode so are not at all real-world 
objects.


If you want to apply postcodes to addresses you can see the map overlay 
I have produced which you can use in editors as an overlay: 
https://codepoint.raggedred.net/ I will update it again shortly. You can 
also derive postcodes from other open data sources such as FHRS data.


--
cheers
Chris Hill (chillly)

On 02/10/2019 13:43, Russ Phillips via Talk-GB wrote:


Hi,

I'm wondering if it would be feasible and advisable to import the UK 
postcode data from OS OpenData Codepoint 
.


The licence is OSM compatible. My thinking was that we could create a 
node for each data point and set the addr:postcode tag. This would be 
useful for routing software like OsmAnd, since it would allow a user 
to enter a postcode as a destination.


I'm happy to do the work, but the import guidelines 
 say that 
imports should be discussed on the imports@ list and the appropriate 
local communities, hence this email.


Russ Phillips


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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[David Woolley]

On 02/10/2019 13:57, David Woolley wrote:
Whilst I'm not sure of the precise conclusions, this has been considered 
many many times before.  I think it may even have been done in some 
places.  I'd suggest a search of the list archives.


Also, the discussing tab on the wiki page you referenced contains 
discussion on this going back over 9 years, and expresses concern about 
the licensing.


As a minor point, although described as centroids, they are not actually 
centroids, but actually the nearest valid delivery point to the centroid.


My feeling is that, if considered acceptable, it would already have 
happened.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[David Woolley]

Whilst I'm not sure of the precise conclusions, this has been considered 
many many times before.  I think it may even have been done in some 
places.  I'd suggest a search of the list archives.


Note that this data is not suitable for reverse geo-coding, because I 
don't believe it distinguishes between single business and area codes.


(Better would be to convince the general public that a proprietary 
locator system is not the best way of providing a short code for an 
approximate location.)



On 02/10/2019 13:43, Russ Phillips via Talk-GB wrote:

Hi,

I'm wondering if it would be feasible and advisable to import the UK 
postcode data from OS OpenData Codepoint 
.


The licence is OSM compatible. My thinking was that we could create a 
node for each data point and set the addr:postcode tag. This would be 
useful for routing software like OsmAnd, since it would allow a user to 
enter a postcode as a destination.


I'm happy to do the work, but the import guidelines 
 say that imports 
should be discussed on the imports@ list and the appropriate local 
communities, hence this email.


Russ Phillips



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[Talk-GB] Import UK postcode data?

[Russ Phillips via Talk-GB]

Hi,

I'm wondering if it would be feasible and advisable to import the UK 
postcode data from OS OpenData Codepoint 
.


The licence is OSM compatible. My thinking was that we could create a 
node for each data point and set the addr:postcode tag. This would be 
useful for routing software like OsmAnd, since it would allow a user to 
enter a postcode as a destination.


I'm happy to do the work, but the import guidelines 
 say that imports 
should be discussed on the imports@ list and the appropriate local 
communities, hence this email.


Russ Phillips


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[Talk-GB] 24 hour mapathon - Aberconwy

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I've not done a great deal of publicity about these, but as a reminder the
next 24 hour mapathon is coming up next Wednesday. This time we are mapping
Aberconwy.

There's no need to plan anything but feel free to do some prep if you like.
Just take a look at that bit of the map at any stage during the 24 hour
period. If you spot something you can add/update/improve go for it.
Alternatively just see how it's mapping compares to regions you're more
familiar with.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_24_hour_mapathons

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Resurrecting the 'find the missing paths for 2026' project

[Tony OSM]

Hi

I've been using MapThe Paths for the last year to add my local ROW's to 
OSM - I find it a great help. If we can get all of the data into OSM it 
will enable all ROW users to identify in one source of ROWs and 
NOT.ROWs. This is important as I have identified several paths which 
perhaps should be ROW's or diversions not correctly mapped by the 
Highway Authority.



People provide walkers maps based on OSM - they are very useful when 
ROW's are correctly referenced, the route planning can go ahead with 
increased confidence that the route will not be contentious by routing 
over a private road/track.



I would like missing paths to be a regular feature until 2026, its our 
heritage some of which can only be identified by mapping.


Perhaps working nationally and with local Ramblers groups (another 
project) could a conduit be formed to enable ramblers to identify 
changes needed to the map (perhaps by listing tags and possible values).



Technically on MapThePaths can an option be made available to show  
highways (roads) as an optional overlay to help identify ways which 
perhaps should be included in OSM but are not.



Regards

Tony Shield

TonyS999


On 30/09/2019 18:25, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

Hi,

Was just thinking whether it would be worth us (as in OSM UK) 
resurrecting the 'missing paths for 2026' project?


A quick reminder - we have until 2026 to record historical rights of 
way which have fallen out of use in recent times, and the combination 
of OSM, council data and historical map layers (which I have been 
granted access to by NLS for MapThePaths) would be a good way to 
identify possible missing paths.


I made a start on this about a year ago, here's a quck mock-up showing 
council data in colours and OSM paths shown in white as a 'tippex' 
effect. This allows the identification of historical 'F.P' footpaths 
on the historical maps which do not correspond either to current 
council RoWs or current OSM paths, and thus would be candidates for 
investigation to see if the path is in a usable state or there is 
evidence of use.


http://mapthepaths.org.uk/?mode=1

Obviously it's perhaps not the best time of year to launch an outdoor 
project - but the next few months would be a good time to develop the 
project ready for use in the spring.


Anyone keen to work on this?
Gitlab: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/mapthepaths/

Thanks,
Nick




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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

Bike riders may like to read about  the latest mess concerning cycle lanes:

https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/underhand-law-change-undermines-mandatory-cycle-lanes?fbclid=IwAR1oqOMvD9XjMFrLwKAr65Jw-8ifm0qXSNshRe7yhbKiZ2h7-sVlxsXLbyU

DaveF

On 22/09/2019 15:45, Mike Baggaley wrote:

I would prefer not to see cycleway:lane=mandatory as this suggests that 
cyclists have to use the lane when set. In the UK, the significance of the 
solid white line separating a cycle lane and main carriageway is that motor 
vehicles are not allowed to use the cycle lane, but cyclists can use either the 
cycle lane or main carriageway. I would only want to see mandatory used if 
there is also a separate sign prohibiting cyclists from the road (and I am not 
sure whether any of these exist). I suggest cycleway:lane={exclusive|advisory} 
which are existing tags according to the wiki. Note that UK cycle lanes can 
also be used by pedestrians, so are not strictly exclusive to cyclists.

Cheers,
Mike

• Mandatory/Advisory Cycle Lane: OSM has no differentiation between
mandatory (solid white line) and advisory (dashed white line) lane,
probably because this distinction is rare elsewhere in the world. A new tag
cycleway:lane={mandatory|advisory} is proposed as a backwards-compatible
addition that elaborates on cycleway=lane. This would be useful for routing
engines, who could infer a level of commitment to cyclists at each such
location.
https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#clt_mandat



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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

[Phillip Barnett]

Apart from on motorways!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Oct 2019, at 09:37, Andy Allan  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 05:22, Wulf4096  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> in Germany we've got "Radfahrstreifen" (solid line) which are
>> additionally marked by bicycle signs. Only cyclists may use those, and
>> the sign forbids cyclists to use the main carriageway, unless they've
>> got a reason to.
>> 
>> And we've got "Schutzstreifen" (dashed line). Legally, from the view of
>> a cyclist, those marking don't exist, as they don't impose any rules on
>> cyclists (this has been ruled by court).  Other traffic may not use the
>> dashed lanes unless they've got a reason to.
>> 
>> So I guess it's similar markings and rules?
> 
> Similar markings, but different rules. There is no implication in the
> UK that a cyclist has to use a cycle lane, regardless of markings. You
> can ignore a solid-line-lane and ride in any other traffic lane,
> without needing any reason.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

[Andy Allan]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 05:22, Wulf4096  wrote:

> Hello,
> in Germany we've got "Radfahrstreifen" (solid line) which are
> additionally marked by bicycle signs. Only cyclists may use those, and
> the sign forbids cyclists to use the main carriageway, unless they've
> got a reason to.
>
> And we've got "Schutzstreifen" (dashed line). Legally, from the view of
> a cyclist, those marking don't exist, as they don't impose any rules on
> cyclists (this has been ruled by court).  Other traffic may not use the
> dashed lanes unless they've got a reason to.
>
> So I guess it's similar markings and rules?

Similar markings, but different rules. There is no implication in the
UK that a cyclist has to use a cycle lane, regardless of markings. You
can ignore a solid-line-lane and ride in any other traffic lane,
without needing any reason.

Thanks,
Andy

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