[talk-ph] DENR -FMB Phil Geohazard Maps
Hi, http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/346519/how-aquino-log-ban-was-ignored Where can we download these Geohazard Maps that they are talking? I want to see CDO and Iligan Geohazard maps. Any URL links? Thanks. Noli ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] DENR -FMB Phil Geohazard Maps
The geohazard maps I know are made by the MGB (Mines and Geosciences Bureau). Raster copies could be found on their website www.mgb.gov.ph/lhmp.aspx(currently loading very slowly so I couldn't give you the exact link Wayne Manuel On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Noli Sicad nsi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/346519/how-aquino-log-ban-was-ignored Where can we download these Geohazard Maps that they are talking? I want to see CDO and Iligan Geohazard maps. Any URL links? Thanks. Noli ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
I would like to see a combination (yes, I could work on that myself, but neither I'm a rails coder, nor do I have the time - sorry ;) ) of a map and the data. Observing Kothic.js as a client side rendering engine and some approaches and ideas towards tile based data delivery I wish we could have one example map, but a map editor, too on the front page. Imagine, the front page would load the data you need to display the map style you decided to view for the area you want to display. Imagine, you could use checkboxes to add or remove a feature, color choosers to choose a color and for people who want to, define your very own styles in a textbox accepting e.g. MapCSS-definitions. It would probably even be possible to use the alternative-stylesheet-mechanisms the browsers provide to set up a client side stylesheet for my personal osm map view. I know, that's a lot of work. I know, I'm not the one implementing that (in the next months), and I wish I would have the time to learn rails and do it. But it would be a compromise between the we are a map and the we are a data provider. It would be the we are a data provider with the addition of user friendly presentation of the data - and not presentation of a (the?) map, because: The Mapnik rendering is a presentation of data. Parts of the stylesheet are designed to be a presentation of the data and not to make the nicest map AFAIK. Doing this rendering on client side, supported by all major browsers would lead to - more diversity in maps (share your GPX, share your Data, share your Map-Style (!)) - probably better pointing to the database without being a geek-only-game - probably forming the idea of they have data better at a probably lower user level. regards Peter Am 29.12.2011 22:39, schrieb Ben Johnson: For what it's worth I also think it's very important to have a prominent map on the front page and I believe this whole debate just highlights the fact that OSM is not ready for mainstream and remains a geeky subculture. There seems to be a duality of identity here. On one hand, some are saying lets make it more accessible and friendly to ordinary people. On the other hand, some appear embarrassed by the prominence of maps to represent what our community is all about, and they want to retain a geeky we are not a map, we are a database ideology. The two goals are completely incompatible because ordinary people expect OSM to be all about maps. In fact, I was drawn into the project on the premise that OSM is the Wikipedia of maps, and I found it an exciting prospect to contribute to such a great idea. Well... you go over to Wikipedia and the first thing you see is the front page of an encyclopedia, ready to be searched and used as such. You know there's no bells and whistles, and thats a good thing. You're attracted by the clean commercial-free environment, and you have confidence that the information in Wikipedia has been lovingly provided by contributors who want to leave their legacy to the world by sharing their knowledge and expertise, and rigorously reviewed and checked by other contributors. You don't hear Wikipedia trumpeting we are not an encyclopedia, we are a database of information. No... they scream from the mountain tops we are the world's encyclopedia, and absolutely relish in it. Why can't OSM be also scream from a nearby mountain top, we are the world's map I mean, what's so embarrassing about providing a good, comprehensive, accessible map? It's an accomplishment of which we should all be proud, not hide away. Yes we don't have gimmicks like street view and satellite view. So too Wikipedia lacks rich multimedia content. It's simple, clean, fast, comprehensive, accurate - and yet very very successful. Again, what is embarrassing about a map? I really do hope OSM finds its way through this quagmire of identity and eventually becomes the world's map, widely used, integrated, and quoted in all kinds of spheres. That's my vision. BJ On 29/12/2011, at 9:09, Barnett, Phillip phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk mailto:phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk wrote: Well yes, but instead you've got a very conspicuous link saying 'Where's the map? .. here it is. And also four other obvious maps below that even! PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk mailto:phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk WWW.ITN.CO.UK http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? -Original Message- From: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] Sent: 28 December 2011 21:51 To: Thomas Davie Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say Hi, On 12/28/2011 10:41 PM, Thomas Davie wrote: This is a lot better though than Can you believe it, OpenStreetMap doesn't even have an open street map on their home page!. We've been using
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
I'm not quite sure where this rather emotional discussion is supposed to lead. There is nothing stopping anybody from building this great hunking online map site with OSM-data with all the whizz-bang features they want (and it is conceivable that the OSMF could support such an enterprise parallel to core-OSM). Fact is that nobody has volunteered to do it, there hasn't been an attempt to do it commercially (hint: that might tell us something), there hasn't even been an attempt to organize volunteers to build such a site. My conclusion: this thread is actually about wanting -other- people to implement grandiose ideas in their free-time and being upset and whining when they are not particularly enthusiastic about it (because they want to do something else). No money and/or no volunteers == nothing is going to happen. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
SimonPoole wrote There is nothing stopping anybody from building this great hunking online map site with OSM-data with all the whizz-bang features they want (and it is conceivable that the OSMF could support such an enterprise parallel to core-OSM). Fact is that nobody has volunteered to do it There is a second aspect to this too though, motivation. If every time someone suggests some improvements into the consumer side of things, they get shot down by the oldtimers and other people who decide what happens in the project, because they want to stay as geeky as possible and not adapt to becoming more consumer oriented, then the motivation to code any feature in that direction is close to zero. There is probably not much that can kill motivation to work on a project in ones own free time more than getting told your effort isn't wanted and then having to fight for getting something included for years... The first step to getting coders, therefore, is imho to actually have a desire to want to include these kind of features. As long as there remains a hostile environment to these things, they won't happen and you end up having a viscous circle. I know full well, there is much more that is needed than just the desire to make things happen, but the desire is equally necessary. Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Things-People-Say-tp7131801p7137764.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Toby Murray-2 wrote On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Ben Johnson lt;tangararama@gt; wrote: You don't hear Wikipedia trumpeting we are not an encyclopedia, we are a database of information. No... they scream from the mountain tops we are the world's encyclopedia, and absolutely relish in it. Why can't OSM be also scream from a nearby mountain top, we are the world's map I mean, what's so embarrassing about providing a good, comprehensive, accessible map? It's an accomplishment of which we should all be proud, not hide away. [...] I do think there is a non-trivial technical difference between OSM and wikipedia. The text of a given wikipedia article is 90% of the value. It can be displayed as-is and still be useful. Making it pretty and user-friendly is relatively trivial with some CSS or whatever. Our map data is completely different. It is absolutely useless to most people without a rendering process which is much more complicated than formatting some HTML. There are color schemes, rendering choices, de-clutterification, regional cartographic conventions, etc, etc. Which is why we leave it up to other people to do this since they can make what they need out of our data. One can turn that example around by 180°: Despite the fact that wikipedia's raw data, a XML dump, is so much easier to turn into something usable than OSM's data, they still put in the effort to present it in a human usable form. For OSM with its useless to most people data, it is even more important to present it in a human consumable fashion. This conversion doesn't have to all be done by OSMF, but there needs to be a central place with easy to understand access to all of the various options. Furthermore, if no external third party provides an adequate and easy to integrate version of something, then OSMF has to think about if it can support the creation of consumer facing products, as that is imho essential for the growth of OSM data. What needs to be overcome is that one currently has to study the organizational diagram of the OSM project with its hundreds of independent third party sites, before one can figure out how to get anything useful out of osm and to avoid getting an unfriendly response of that one is doing it completely wrong. Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Things-People-Say-tp7131801p7137794.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On 12/30/11 00:50, Toby Murray wrote: I do think there is a non-trivial technical difference between OSM and wikipedia. The text of a given wikipedia article is 90% of the value. It can be displayed as-is and still be useful. Making it pretty and user-friendly is relatively trivial with some CSS or whatever. Our map data is completely different. It is absolutely useless to most people without a rendering process which is much more complicated than formatting some HTML. There are color schemes, rendering choices, de-clutterification, regional cartographic conventions, etc, etc. Which is why we leave it up to other people to do this since they can make what they need out of our data. Even more importantly it's quite easy to convert a wikipedia article to some sort of plain text as a basis for an entirely different encyclopedia, even without access to the source text version of the page. For Maps this is even harder to get from a pixel image back to some meaningful vector data. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
A lot of good concepts are evoked here, but we should remember that osm, as a lot of open projects is a do-ocracy. Things that (not involved) people say are good to listen, but in this list this sounds more like things people don't do. By now, doing things may looks geeky, but there is a need of good geeks to attain the aims of low entry level to map or good maps, more than Osmf can or wants to provide. Any takers? Yves -- Envoyé de mon téléphone Android avec K-9 Mail. Excusez la brièveté. Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com a écrit : Toby Murray-2 wrote On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Ben Johnson lt;tangararama@gt; wrote: You don't hear Wikipedia trumpeting we are not an encyclopedia, we are a database of information. No... they scream from the mountain tops we are the world's encyclopedia, and absolutely relish in it. Why can't OSM be also scream from a nearby mountain top, we are the world's map I mean, what's so embarrassing about providing a good, comprehensive, accessible map? It's an accomplishment of which we should all be proud, not hide away. [...] I do think there is a non-trivial technical difference between OSM and wikipedia. The text of a given wikipedia article is 90% of the value. It can be displayed as-is and still be useful. Making it pretty and user-friendly is relatively trivial with some CSS or whatever. Our map data is completely different. It is absolutely useless to most people without a rendering process which is much more complicated than formatting some HTML. There are color schemes, rendering choices, de-clutterification, regional cartographic conventions, etc, etc. Which is why we leave it up to other people to do this since they can make what they need out of our data. One can turn that example around by 180°: Despite the fact that wikipedia's raw data, a XML dump, is so much easier to turn into something usable than OSM's data, they still put in the effort to present it in a human usable form. For OSM with its useless to most people data, it is even more important to present it in a human consumable fashion. This conversion doesn't have to all be done by OSMF, but there needs to be a central place with easy to understand access to all of the various options. Furthermore, if no external third party provides an adequate and easy to integrate version of something, then OSMF has to think about if it can support the creation of consumer facing products, as that is imho essential for the growth of OSM data. What needs to be overcome is that one currently has to study the organizational diagram of the OSM project with its hundreds of independent third party sites, before one can figure out how to get anything useful out of osm and to avoid getting an unfriendly response of that one is doing it completely wrong. Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Things-People-Say-tp7131801p7137794.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Ben Johnson tangarar...@gmail.com wrote: First apology for me poor english (french speaking). For what it's worth I also think it's very important to have a prominent map on the front page and I believe this whole debate just highlights the fact that OSM is not ready for mainstream and remains a geeky subculture. There seems to be a duality of identity here. On one hand, some are saying lets make it more accessible and friendly to ordinary people. On the other hand, some appear embarrassed by the prominence of maps to represent what our community is all about, and they want to retain a geeky we are not a map, we are a database ideology. OSM is a geographic database., it's not an ideology, it's a fact. The two goals are completely incompatible because ordinary people expect OSM to be all about maps. In fact, I was drawn into the project on the premise that OSM is the Wikipedia of maps, and I found it an exciting prospect to contribute to such a great idea. One can build a map around OSM data, that's what do Mapnik project (the map you see on OSM front page) and many other renderer : openmapquest, cloudmade ans so on. Well... you go over to Wikipedia and the first thing you see is the front page of an encyclopedia, ready to be searched and used as such. Of course, Wikipedia is an enclyclopedia. What was difficult with OSM (and a bit geeky as you said above) is the difference between a map and map data. This difference is important, but not easy to understand. You build a map (a representation) with data (OSM). But not everyone need the same map, the same representation. Some want emphazing on roads (use openmapquest), some prefer emphasing on footway or bicycle or anything you want. OSM has around lot of other project that build map (mapnik was one) and it's good. [...] You don't hear Wikipedia trumpeting we are not an encyclopedia, we are a database of information. No... they scream from the mountain tops we are the world's encyclopedia, and absolutely relish in it. The comparaison is not correct, wikipedia is in fact an enclyclopedia. OSM is not a map project it's more. Why can't OSM be also scream from a nearby mountain top, we are the world's map... Because there not one good map, it's impossible. Map(s) is(are) a different things that an enclyclopedia. A single map could not represent everything, is you put too much information on a single map, it will because useless and go to trash. For example mapnik rendering (default OSM map) do not represent many objects. For me representing foot crossing and handicap accessibility is important (it's an example) but mapnik do not represent those items... For example, i way a clear easy to read map for travel, i dont want to see every shop on the map... mapnik is not the map i need. I mean, what's so embarrassing about providing a good, comprehensive, accessible map? It's an accomplishment of which we should all be proud, not hide away. Yes, and some prpject to this job nicely. These are side project, not OSM main project. Perhaps OSM would add to it's goal a realize a good map (the problem would be to define what is a good map) but its not OSM goals. Again, what is embarrassing about a map? nothing. I really do hope OSM finds its way through this quagmire of identity and eventually becomes the world's map, widely used, integrated, and quoted in all kinds of spheres. That's my vision. Perhaps would you have to participate to mapnik project (those who define OSM default map). -- Pierre-Alain Dorange OSM experiences : http://www.leretourdelautruche.com/map/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Hi, On 12/30/11 11:26, Kai Krueger wrote: There is a second aspect to this too though, motivation. If every time someone suggests some improvements into the consumer side of things, they get shot down by the oldtimers and other people who decide what happens in the project, because they want to stay as geeky as possible and not adapt to becoming more consumer oriented, then the motivation to code any feature in that direction is close to zero. There's a lot of untrue statements in that long sentence, but I would like to concentrate on the overall untrue-ness: If OSM doesn't want to be what I would like it to be then the motivation to code ... is close to zero. This couldn't be more wrong. If *I* had a great idea for a map platform, and I suggested that to OSM, and those grey-haired conservative OSM oldtimer geek bastards said no thanks we'd rather remain small and unknown, then of course the first thing I would do is set it up myself, attract all the consumers to *my* site and then smile at OSM when for every 1000 visitors they get, I get a million! As I said in one of my earlier postings; if you want to make a consumer map platform based on OSM, what's to stop you? OSM delivers data, you package it and make a great experience out of it. It doesn't even have to be you alone, or a MapQuest-like enterprise. Start a project - the open cartography project or the open map portal or the free map network or whatever. Gather UI whizkids, cartography buffs, build a nice consumer-oriented site; team up with naturalearthdata.com... all this is possible *today*, and is possible *with* (not against!) OpenStreetMap. Of course, if your answer to the above is well people might not have the resources... then let me tell you that OSM doesn't have resources coming out of their ears either; if you have a great idea that you feel you cannot pull off yourself but you need OSM resources to pull it off, then we're back at exactly what Simon said - I would like you to make my idea happen. I am absolutely not against anyone packaging OSM into a nice, free, open, versatile, flexible, consumer-oriented, service-desk-equipped, all-singing, all-dancing map portal. I am just against diverting *our* resources which we desperately need to maintain and edit our data, keep our databases running smoothly, work on data modeling and tagging and tools to help mappers fix bugs and have a good data quality, work on licensing and editors and deal with vandalism and policy and all that, into trying to look like a map portal. Which we just aren't. There is probably not much that can kill motivation to work on a project in ones own free time more than getting told your effort isn't wanted and then having to fight for getting something included for years... I don't get this whole idea of getting something included. I really don't. I mean look at the opencyclemap, for example. Andy set that up himself and nobody fought for including anything; a while ago OSM came to him asking whether they could use his tiles on the main page (or maybe he was prodded by lots of people to offer his tiles to OSM). The only reason why you want to fight for something to be included is if it is a drain on resources (and you'd rather have it drain OSM's resources than your own), or something that nobody would care for otherwise and where you hope that OSM's popularity will give it a boost. As long as there remains a hostile environment to these things, I don't think it is a good choice of words. Let's just say the idea and the environment don't match. Fresh air is a nice environment for me to be in but hostile to fish; that doesn't mean fresh air is bad, it just isn't right for fish. And neither are fish bad; they just do better in water. When ideas pop up on what OSM could be, some of them will fit OSM and some won't. That doesn't mean that OSM is somehow generally hostile, or some ideas are somehow generally bad. It's just that *this* project with *these* people and *these* resources might not be the right match for every idea. For me, the idea of a user friendly map portal (with a nice brand name and matching apps, with maps, routing, geocoding, aerial imagery, streetview imagery and all) is not a *bad* idea, and if someone made such a portal they should certainly be encouraged to use OSM for it. It's just that I don't think OSM has the spare resources to become such a portal, and I think it would place an undue burden on those other activities we have on our plates if we were to aspire to that. Because for every 1000 mappers we have asking for a new feature in Potlatch, we'd have a million consumers asking for some feature on the web site to make it more user friendly, and guess what that would logically mean for resource allocation. I used to say that we are the open alternative to TeleAtlas or Navteq, not the open alternative to Google. Now that Google starts ditching those
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 12/29/2011 10:39 PM, Ben Johnson wrote: There seems to be a duality of identity here. On one hand, some are saying lets make it more accessible and friendly to ordinary people. On the other hand, some appear embarrassed by the prominence of maps to represent what our community is all about, and they want to retain a geeky we are not a map, we are a database ideology. This is not a geeky ideology, this is the heart of our project. Otherwise we'd all be using the Gimp (or maybe Inkscape), and not JOSM or Potlatch. Let's remember that Frederik believes that not everyone should be a map contributor, that there's value in a high bar for contribution. Frederik, if you think I'm misrepresenting you, please say so- but I think this belies the difference in the two views. This reminds me a lot of the early Debian arguments: Linux can't be for the masses turned into I like compiling my own kernel and we should have a high bar for contribution. Fast forward five years, and I'm using Ubuntu. I agree wholeheartedly with the view that OSM should be providing maps. I think as long as we continue to cling to this idea that we want third parties to make the maps, then we limit the project's viability, its success and its overall accuracy. I hope strongly that the view will change, that the OSMF board will reflect this view. I've seen a slight shift already in the time I've been with the project. There's far more room for discussion on the point than there was just a few years ago, but I'm also worried that the strong beliefs of respected core project members like Frederik have driven away those who care about the project, but don't share the same views. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On 30 Dec 2011, at 14:23, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/30/11 11:26, Kai Krueger wrote: There is a second aspect to this too though, motivation. If every time someone suggests some improvements into the consumer side of things, they get shot down by the oldtimers and other people who decide what happens in the project, because they want to stay as geeky as possible and not adapt to becoming more consumer oriented, then the motivation to code any feature in that direction is close to zero. There's a lot of untrue statements in that long sentence, but I would like to concentrate on the overall untrue-ness: If OSM doesn't want to be what I would like it to be then the motivation to code ... is close to zero. This couldn't be more wrong. If *I* had a great idea for a map platform, and I suggested that to OSM, and those grey-haired conservative OSM oldtimer geek bastards said no thanks we'd rather remain small and unknown, then of course the first thing I would do is set it up myself, attract all the consumers to *my* site and then smile at OSM when for every 1000 visitors they get, I get a million! You make it sound so easy to run a site getting a million visitors each loading a good few thousand (relatively) large data files. As I said in one of my earlier postings; if you want to make a consumer map platform based on OSM, what's to stop you? OSM delivers data, you package it and make a great experience out of it. It doesn't even have to be you alone, or a MapQuest-like enterprise. Start a project - the open cartography project or the open map portal or the free map network or whatever. Gather UI whizkids, cartography buffs, build a nice consumer-oriented site; team up with naturalearthdata.com... all this is possible *today*, and is possible *with* (not against!) OpenStreetMap. The point is that the understanding that OSM is about *only* map data is *incorrect. The hint is in the name – it's OpenStreet *Map*, not OpenMapDatabase. Yes, the database is a *very* important part of the project, and indeed should be our main focus, but we shouldn't forget that the goal of the process is to provide high quality maps for people to use. I doubt SteveC (and he can correct me if I'm wrong), set out thinking hey, you know what would be cool? A huge database of map data that we don't show to anyone! That we I can be really useless without a third party making something interesting out of it! Bob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Frederik Ramm writes: For me, the idea of a user friendly map portal (with a nice brand name and matching apps, with maps, routing, geocoding, aerial imagery, streetview imagery and all) is not a *bad* idea, and if someone made such a portal they should certainly be encouraged to use OSM for it. When I worked for Cloudmade I found a nice book on map projections. They bought it for me because they were nice that way. Without going into any of the projections, lesson #1 from that book is: every map has its compromises. All of them. So, purely from a technical standpoint, we shouldn't be telling people that Mapnik is the be-all and end-all of map tile sets. IMHO, Mapnik is the tile set for OSM editors. As such, it should be more concerned about completeness than anything else. And as such, map editors will be happy to click on a http://mapnik.osm.org link on the front page of OSM. It's probably MUCH better for our community of users if we give them a list of links to maps, than if we show them just one map. Make it a bunch of screen shots of the same place with links. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/30/2011 03:41 PM, Thomas Davie wrote: we shouldn't forget that the goal of the process is to provide high quality maps for people to use. Have you ever read the tile usage policy? How many iDroid apps were blocked from using OSM's tile server and told to brew their own tiles? The OSM project doesn't have the resources to provide ready made maps for everyone. If you want OSM to be able to do that, then start working on a viable plan to get those resources. - --- m.v.g., Cartinus -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJO/dKLAAoJEInLUvwrL2kI3FYH/3eyeuWKsHt61TNo0QLLmBGf UIPeCoza4e8X0xm5NzQJbKc3cEISrF3heW8cZoP/b/b+wrPin0JEGkncnByOAxnR S3U2NS2OpwwyDpUXvItydFQ42FRCWs3RMblIvw578oJCFj/1jh1xBpncDomFEcaQ EF5RjEHnWsNofgIkvd7nCoStQDAinTHlp1jPe/K6UHScwJv2+xmF7KKX2vBYgume 4p79LvVgEdursgj4MiaGlnpXIrrtbcm5OgDxsoNRWfAbkOPoOdl8mTn4rm1H7vE3 JFairw3HVbbYFpPPoGGtoW4MLjQdRVzD5O5Qnu7ePgl0OlqsoZn/rnqtb03npc8= =WMek -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
You're right – it needs to be a bit clearer that there's more than one map available, perhaps the right way to do this though is to make the layers box a bit more obvious, and give the various layers rather more user friendly names, so that people will experiment with a few of them. Tom Davie if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; } On 30 Dec 2011, at 14:51, Russ Nelson wrote: Frederik Ramm writes: For me, the idea of a user friendly map portal (with a nice brand name and matching apps, with maps, routing, geocoding, aerial imagery, streetview imagery and all) is not a *bad* idea, and if someone made such a portal they should certainly be encouraged to use OSM for it. When I worked for Cloudmade I found a nice book on map projections. They bought it for me because they were nice that way. Without going into any of the projections, lesson #1 from that book is: every map has its compromises. All of them. So, purely from a technical standpoint, we shouldn't be telling people that Mapnik is the be-all and end-all of map tile sets. IMHO, Mapnik is the tile set for OSM editors. As such, it should be more concerned about completeness than anything else. And as such, map editors will be happy to click on a http://mapnik.osm.org link on the front page of OSM. It's probably MUCH better for our community of users if we give them a list of links to maps, than if we show them just one map. Make it a bunch of screen shots of the same place with links. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On 30 Dec 2011, at 15:02, Cartinus wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/30/2011 03:41 PM, Thomas Davie wrote: we shouldn't forget that the goal of the process is to provide high quality maps for people to use. Have you ever read the tile usage policy? How many iDroid apps were blocked from using OSM's tile server and told to brew their own tiles? The OSM project doesn't have the resources to provide ready made maps for everyone. If you want OSM to be able to do that, then start working on a viable plan to get those resources. The tile usage policy that says roughly use this for your personal benefit, don't scrape them – iDroid apps don't get blocked because they let people look at the map, they get blocked because they create unnecessary load in some way (e.g. by scraping) Tom Davie if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; } ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/30/2011 04:06 PM, Thomas Davie wrote: On 30 Dec 2011, at 15:02, Cartinus wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/30/2011 03:41 PM, Thomas Davie wrote: we shouldn't forget that the goal of the process is to provide high quality maps for people to use. Have you ever read the tile usage policy? How many iDroid apps were blocked from using OSM's tile server and told to brew their own tiles? The OSM project doesn't have the resources to provide ready made maps for everyone. If you want OSM to be able to do that, then start working on a viable plan to get those resources. The tile usage policy that says roughly use this for your personal benefit, don't scrape them – iDroid apps don't get blocked because they let people look at the map, they get blocked because they create unnecessary load in some way (e.g. by scraping) Tom Davie And if everyone is going to use our map, then we run into exactly the same problem as when a single person is scraping. You're still only demanding and don't have a plan, worse you actually deny we need a plan. - --- m.v.g., Cartinus -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJO/dSGAAoJEInLUvwrL2kIb7IH/RChI7PUR1SbIoYjxr/1jFfF gDDWLTcYnMGwUP8Q0Biuz2wuGwMcdY7WrRDmF775i4y/nD+KvugZFgGL44GWG8r2 TxCfvxWYHY7FSjOmJmdK10LrE7chPB0NY2nYNYXJcMgiP0fcMm1z+2YaOOudIJ5Y fmRrQMNpap4gjv63qj6ow3hlmZlHe6HMQJM4f8Sal/2OUVyt9/imtSh14DuWsmoC G9zR+EhcGhgRz4qVJQexiHySyaYtlsD9poiAOAd+kW9n15kWyjr2eo6by3rwwu6k i2hPKaaN9a8pylplXlVgEzM1IWPHuvaT5eWY13EcoV2x/HqeyBXIMt2sYqq3j7U= =Hqbp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On 30/12/2011 16:05, Thomas Davie wrote: You're right – it needs to be a bit clearer that there's more than one map available I believe that the side-scrolling banner at http://openstreetmap.de does it quite well. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On 30 Dec 2011, at 15:11, Cartinus wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/30/2011 04:06 PM, Thomas Davie wrote: On 30 Dec 2011, at 15:02, Cartinus wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/30/2011 03:41 PM, Thomas Davie wrote: we shouldn't forget that the goal of the process is to provide high quality maps for people to use. Have you ever read the tile usage policy? How many iDroid apps were blocked from using OSM's tile server and told to brew their own tiles? The OSM project doesn't have the resources to provide ready made maps for everyone. If you want OSM to be able to do that, then start working on a viable plan to get those resources. The tile usage policy that says roughly use this for your personal benefit, don't scrape them – iDroid apps don't get blocked because they let people look at the map, they get blocked because they create unnecessary load in some way (e.g. by scraping) Tom Davie And if everyone is going to use our map, then we run into exactly the same problem as when a single person is scraping. You're still only demanding and don't have a plan, worse you actually deny we need a plan. The problem with this being that what you're suggesting comes much further down the line. The whole world using and caring about open street map is rather a nice problem to have is it not? Tom Davie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On 30 Dec 2011, at 15:16, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: On 30/12/2011 16:05, Thomas Davie wrote: You're right – it needs to be a bit clearer that there's more than one map available I believe that the side-scrolling banner at http://openstreetmap.de does it quite well. I disagree – it's poor UI – it takes more clicks for a user to get to what they care about – the map. Instead, we should simply have something similar to what google maps had at the top of the map – a series of buttons that let you select the style you want to view it in. Then oh no, there's no satellite view turns into oh wow, there's loads of views that are more useful than just trees from above. Tom Davie if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; } ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Hi, On 12/30/11 15:37, Serge Wroclawski wrote: Let's remember that Frederik believes that not everyone should be a map contributor, that there's value in a high bar for contribution. I thought that this thread was about being more consumer friendly in terms of providing ready-made maps, not in terms of soliciting edits. Both are orthogonal. You could have a consumer friendly ready-made maps department and a high bar to editing at the same time; and you could have it the other way round. This thread is wide-spread already, and the argument about whom we should attract as editors and why is different from how we should represent ourselves. I cannot see why you would bring it up here, other than try to discredit my position? In fact, many of those arguing for OSM becoming a nice map portal haven't even touched the subject of editing in their argument. This reminds me a lot of the early Debian arguments: Linux can't be for the masses turned into I like compiling my own kernel and we should have a high bar for contribution. Fast forward five years, and I'm using Ubuntu. Me too. But let's not kid ourselves: Ubuntu is the nice packaging of data/software provided by others. This is of course an oversimplification but by and large, Ubuntu is a very good example of a project that has added pretty packaging, user friendliness, and a help desk to things that have been there before. If you install software on Ubuntu and it doesn't work and you are clever enough to provide a patch, then that patch will usually get through to the upstream software. You don't use Ubuntu *instead* of free software; you use the Ubuntu packaging. Free software has not been made obsolete by Ubuntu (even Debian stuff is re-used in Ubuntu). And this is a good way to work - someone has seen that the making of the software and the consumer side are different, and need different specialists, even different projects. I agree wholeheartedly with the view that OSM should be providing maps. I think as long as we continue to cling to this idea that we want third parties to make the maps, then we limit the project's viability, its success and its overall accuracy. I think this discussion has gone a little out of hand and maybe it should be repeated in another form, at another time. First of all, one would have to define the exact difference between OSM is providing maps and another project is providing maps. Why exactly would OSM have to provide maps; is it because we think we would gain something from it - more visibility, more sponsors perhaps? And if so, would that advantage not be nullified by the resources that offering those maps consumes, and would it not be a better organisational structure overall if there were two separate entities? Even if we all agreed that someone should do X, and even if we had people standing by willing to do the work and even if we had sponsors standing by willing to pay the money, would it be ideal for OSM/OSMF to do X? Secondly, and this touches on something from my looking forward post a few days ago, we have always made it clear that there are no official tags and no official list and no promise that anything gets rendered anywhere. This has many advantages, decoupling editing from rendering, and brings many freedoms, but if we were to push that one true map or maybe these ten true maps and try to be the map portal for everyone then that would be the end of saying well the Mapnik map is just a showcase and you cannot expect us to render everything. We would clearly make a much stronger bond between editing and rendering; fewer and fewer people would be willing to map things that are not on our main map(s), and we'd be pushing specialist maps to the sidelines. Let's not kid ourselves: Competing with Google Maps *will* make us more like Google Maps. I hope strongly that the view will change, that the OSMF board will reflect this view. I've seen a slight shift already in the time I've been with the project. There's far more room for discussion on the point than there was just a few years ago, but I'm also worried that the strong beliefs of respected core project members like Frederik have driven away those who care about the project, but don't share the same views. If I may paraphrase: Sadly, there are some fossils like Fred who are trying to chase away well-meaning people who share his passion for OSM but have different views. Luckily, these fossils are losing influence and things will become better. The question is: How much of a fossil do you have to be? If there's someone who cares deeply about OSM but his view is that OSM should place paid advertising on its map - would it be too bad if that person were to be driven away by (borrowing from Kai's posting) a hostile environment? If there's someone who cares deeply for OSM but believes that community is irrelevant and we can just import Open Government data from around the world -
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
First of all, one would have to define the exact difference between OSM is providing maps and another project is providing maps. Why exactly would OSM have to provide maps; Perhaps because that's the original, and stated purpose of the project – to make open maps. As I've said many times – a database of map data is a *really* useful thing, it's probably the single most important contribution OSM can make, but ultimately, the *point* of the project is to make maps. Pretty much everything you say is based on the premise that the point of the project is to make an enormous collection of map data, and damn actually being able to use it. This premise is false. Tom Davie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: I agree wholeheartedly with the view that OSM should be providing maps. I think as long as we continue to cling to this idea that we want third parties to make the maps, then we limit the project's viability, its success and its overall accuracy. I've allready express my own opinion, but i do not really understand the point. OSM hosted one rendering on its own server (using mapnik software)... Do you want OSM to provide other maps (with different rendering) ? I assume that what you want is OSM to provide a service without limit for other to use their tile server as base ? I feel very unconfortable with this option. Managing a tile server has a cost (OSMF handle it now) and this cost goes higher has many user use it. We see actual limitation this summer (limited bandwidth). So their is here 2 options : 1. providing a free service open to everyone with no limits (google competitor to summurize) that will be adapt to demand (more power, more RAM...) so more cost every user use it. To handle cost there is 2 options : keep the service free (more donation, more money from ?)or made the service commercial (big users pay, this is what google is providing). This will require adding an API key (like google, bing or cloudmade). 2. providing a basic service for small users (as it's now) and limit big usage without providing an laternative and let commercial compagny (cloudmade or openstreetmap has start this) providing services for big users. Note that option 1 has a terrible issue : been a competitor to commercial compagny that would do business with OSM data... My opinion is that OSM should provide a basic service (as now) without commercial issue (option 2). Big users should build their own tile servers or buy this service from commercial compagny : it's not OSM business (OSM is not in business). -- Pierre-Alain Dorange OSM experiences : http://www.leretourdelautruche.com/map/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; } On 30 Dec 2011, at 15:57, Pierre-Alain Dorange wrote: Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: I agree wholeheartedly with the view that OSM should be providing maps. I think as long as we continue to cling to this idea that we want third parties to make the maps, then we limit the project's viability, its success and its overall accuracy. I've allready express my own opinion, but i do not really understand the point. OSM hosted one rendering on its own server (using mapnik software)... Do you want OSM to provide other maps (with different rendering) ? Sure – and we already do, e.g. OpenCycleMap the transport map, the osmarenderer layer, etc. I assume that what you want is OSM to provide a service without limit for other to use their tile server as base ? Not at all – though I can imagine that we could make some cash by offering to serve tiles to people if they pay for our hardware/bandwidth, plus a bit. Ofc, this requires quite a major investment in people to run it, so it's probably not immediately possible right now. I feel very unconfortable with this option. Managing a tile server has a cost (OSMF handle it now) and this cost goes higher has many user use it. We see actual limitation this summer (limited bandwidth). I agree, providing unlimited tile data to unlimited numbers of people, for free is clearly not a reasonable option. The status quo works pretty well though. So their is here 2 options : 1. providing a free service open to everyone with no limits (google competitor to summurize) that will be adapt to demand (more power, more RAM...) so more cost every user use it. To handle cost there is 2 options : keep the service free (more donation, more money from ?)or made the service commercial (big users pay, this is what google is providing). This will require adding an API key (like google, bing or cloudmade). 2. providing a basic service for small users (as it's now) and limit big usage without providing an laternative and let commercial compagny (cloudmade or openstreetmap has start this) providing services for big users. Note that option 1 has a terrible issue : been a competitor to commercial compagny that would do business with OSM data... Is that a terrible issue? If a company is offering OSM with no added value on top of it, why do we care about competing with them? If they're doing a better job than us, and make it financially unviable for us to do it, then all the better – we can stop worrying about this problem. My opinion is that OSM should provide a basic service (as now) without commercial issue (option 2). Big users should build their own tile servers or buy this service from commercial compagny : it's not OSM business (OSM is not in business). There's no reason why it can't be run like one though – charities and philanthropic organisations usually are for one very good reason – it gives them sustainability. Note – I have no problem with carrying on with 2 either for now, or indefinitely. What I don't think is a good option though is option 3 that some people seem to be kicking about – that is, drop all rendered output to users or people considering what they can do with OSM, and instead concentrate on just having a huge database. Tom Davie___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Hi, On 12/30/11 16:55, Thomas Davie wrote: Perhaps because that's the original, and stated purpose of the project – to make open maps. When I started using OSM, the project wasn't making maps; it was making files that you could download and feed into a renderer and then you could see a map. I probably saw the potential back then; I saw that you could make maps right there on your computer, and quite possibly I also thought that one could make a slippy map - but it never occurred to me that what I was seeing then was somehow *not* the original purpose. A good 5000 people who joined OSM before me must have seen the same thing. Pretty much everything you say is based on the premise that the point of the project is to make an enormous collection of map data, and damn actually being able to use it. This premise is false. Where did you get that idea about the original, and stated purpose being to make open maps? From the Wiki history, I can see that on 26 May 2005, Steve Coast added this sentence as the very first sentence on our main page: OpenStreetMap is a project aimed squarely at providing free geographic data such as street maps to anyone who wants them. That was 6.5 years ago, OSM must have had about 500 members back then. I only joined a year later, when that sentence was still up on the Wiki, and today, the sentence has only slightly changed: OpenStreetMap creates and provides free geographic data such as street maps to anyone who wants them. As I said in another message, SWG are debating core values etc., and before we know it that sentence may read OpenStreetMap offers map tile downloads free of charge or something, but most people who have joined the project in the last 6.5 years will probably have read in the very first sentence that OSM says about itself: OpenStreetMap creates free geographic data. If that is indeed false then where can I complain about having been misled for so long? ;) Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On 30 Dec 2011, at 16:15, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/30/11 16:55, Thomas Davie wrote: Perhaps because that's the original, and stated purpose of the project – to make open maps. When I started using OSM, the project wasn't making maps; it was making files that you could download and feed into a renderer and then you could see a map. I probably saw the potential back then; I saw that you could make maps right there on your computer, and quite possibly I also thought that one could make a slippy map - but it never occurred to me that what I was seeing then was somehow *not* the original purpose. A good 5000 people who joined OSM before me must have seen the same thing. Everything has to start somewhere. Just because the best that it was possible to do back then was to download and render, doesn't mean that it's the best we can do now. Pretty much everything you say is based on the premise that the point of the project is to make an enormous collection of map data, and damn actually being able to use it. This premise is false. Where did you get that idea about the original, and stated purpose being to make open maps? From the Wiki history, I can see that on 26 May 2005, Steve Coast added this sentence as the very first sentence on our main page: OpenStreetMap is a project aimed squarely at providing free geographic data such as street maps to anyone who wants them. Such as Street Maps ;) That was 6.5 years ago, OSM must have had about 500 members back then. I only joined a year later, when that sentence was still up on the Wiki, and today, the sentence has only slightly changed: OpenStreetMap creates and provides free geographic data such as street maps to anyone who wants them. Keeping the nice important bit there. As I said in another message, SWG are debating core values etc., and before we know it that sentence may read OpenStreetMap offers map tile downloads free of charge or something, but most people who have joined the project in the last 6.5 years will probably have read in the very first sentence that OSM says about itself: OpenStreetMap creates free geographic data. If that is indeed false then where can I complain about having been misled for so long? ;) You've not been misled, you've misread. Tom Davie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Thomas Davie wrote: I believe that the side-scrolling banner at http://openstreetmap.de does it quite well. I disagree – it's poor UI – it takes more clicks for a user to get to what they care about – the map. The banner is there to let the user discover in what ways OSM can be useful, and I think that it is designed well for that purpose. As soon as the user the user finds an OSM-based app he likes, he should install it on his phone. As soon as he finds an web-based routing service he likes, he should bookmark it. And so on. The user is *not* expected to go through openstreetmap.de every time he wants to use OSM-based products. Instead, we should simply have something similar to what google maps had at the top of the map – a series of buttons that let you select the style you want to view it in. And how will this let the user find out that there is an iPhone app for planning outdoor running tracks based on OSM? That they can turn their Android tablets into car navigation systems powered by OSM? That there is an educational 3D globe for their desktop? That there is an entire map portal dedicated to wheelchair accessibility? We should actively advertise the many third-party products made from OSM, many of which go far beyond putting a map into your browser. We should work hard on the database that makes them all possible. But we don't have to build and offer these products ourselves. Tobias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Instead, we should simply have something similar to what google maps had at the top of the map – a series of buttons that let you select the style you want to view it in. And how will this let the user find out that there is an iPhone app for planning outdoor running tracks based on OSM? That they can turn their Android tablets into car navigation systems powered by OSM? That there is an educational 3D globe for their desktop? That there is an entire map portal dedicated to wheelchair accessibility? We should actively advertise the many third-party products made from OSM, many of which go far beyond putting a map into your browser. We should work hard on the database that makes them all possible. But we don't have to build and offer these products ourselves. We should – but not directly on the front page. The single biggest mistake I've seen any open source project make is to have a web page which is all links to other stuff. I don't want on my first visit to open street map to be confronted with a wall of text that I'll read the first paragraph of and then close my browser... Instead, I want to see immediately oh hay, this is a project that creates maps, oh look, there's one that shows all the busses in my city, oh cool, there's one for wheelchair accessibility, wow, they show paths on some of their maps... and *then* go I wonder, could I get this really awesome cool thing on my iPhone. Tom Davie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote: First of all, one would have to define the exact difference between OSM is providing maps and another project is providing maps. Why exactly would OSM have to provide maps; Perhaps because that's the original, and stated purpose of the project – to make open maps. As I've said many times – a database of map data is a *really* useful thing, it's probably the single most important contribution OSM can make, but ultimately, the *point* of the project is to make maps. Pretty much everything you say is based on the premise that the point of the project is to make an enormous collection of map data, and damn actually being able to use it. This premise is false. The point of a project to create a really good text editor is to provide a tool for editing text. Nobody expects vim or emacs to provide you with the finished document when you download vim or emacs. Our situation in OSM is not exactly the same as a text editor. The OSM data base is a great resource. The software stack we use is a collection of great tools. We, as a community, have assembled reams of documentation and examples. And we count among our project dozens of people ready and able to answer questions for motivated newcomers, via help.osm.org, irc and other channels. Damn being able to actually use it rings a bit hollow. The key to OSMs success is to continually improve the data. That needs people who edit (and people who write code for editors, maintain and improve servers, document and test code, etc.) Attracting more users is nice, but much less important than attracting more editors. Here's why: as we attract more editors and the data continues to improve, we won't be able to keep users away. We already see that with tile scrapers. We can't handle the load so we have to block them. Instead we have to (really, we HAVE TO) point them towards the methods of consuming OSM resources responsibly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On 30 Dec 2011, at 16:36, Richard Weait wrote: On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote: First of all, one would have to define the exact difference between OSM is providing maps and another project is providing maps. Why exactly would OSM have to provide maps; Perhaps because that's the original, and stated purpose of the project – to make open maps. As I've said many times – a database of map data is a *really* useful thing, it's probably the single most important contribution OSM can make, but ultimately, the *point* of the project is to make maps. Pretty much everything you say is based on the premise that the point of the project is to make an enormous collection of map data, and damn actually being able to use it. This premise is false. The point of a project to create a really good text editor is to provide a tool for editing text. Nobody expects vim or emacs to provide you with the finished document when you download vim or emacs. Right, just like we don't provide where to go for a walk, only the map of the place you could go for a walk. Our situation in OSM is not exactly the same as a text editor. Agreed. Tom Davie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Am 30.12.2011 17:22, schrieb Thomas Davie: You've not been misled, you've misread. I don't think he has. I think, we have to find a way in between. I already mentioned my vision to provide a VIEW on the DATA, that the user can define himself. In that vision, OSM is not about maps. OSM is about the data, and the user (not necessarily mapper) would add the map on top - in providing his own stylesheet. Again: that's a vision, and probably somebody or even I myself would try to implement that: to change a front page of the project to a view of map data - which can be styles by the user on demand. Nevertheless: The good ideas don't come from users who add two points (my home and my work) and then repeatingly view the nice map. The good ideas and benefits for the project come from people who do something with the data: Extending the data itself (mapping) or using the data in a new fashion, like many projects show: quizzes generated from osm data, routing applications, new styled maps and many more. Of course these ideas support the project - but I think, they do it the same way like LibreOffice and Mozilla support ubuntu or debian - without being part of the distributor or distribution project. regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 12/30/11 15:37, Serge Wroclawski wrote: Let's remember that Frederik believes that not everyone should be a map contributor, that there's value in a high bar for contribution. I thought that this thread was about being more consumer friendly in terms of providing ready-made maps, not in terms of soliciting edits. Both are orthogonal. You could have a consumer friendly ready-made maps department and a high bar to editing at the same time; and you could have it the other way round. They're not orthogonal. The core question is What is the project's goals? and based on what you've said in the past, you want a small project generally. Small number of editors, small OSMF, etc. I want lots of editors, and I want OpenStreetMap to be about maps, ie people go to OSM for their catrographic needs. I cannot see why you would bring it up here, other than try to discredit my position? it represents your view on the project as a whole. I have deep respect for you, we just disagree on some issues. In fact, many of those arguing for OSM becoming a nice map portal haven't even touched the subject of editing in their argument. True. I've been negligent in my efforts to do this. I should work on editing more. I'm on vacation at the moment but when I get home, I promise to have something, *something* to show for my efforts before Valentine's Day. If not, I will work out some suitable amends. This reminds me a lot of the early Debian arguments: Linux can't be for the masses turned into I like compiling my own kernel and we should have a high bar for contribution. Fast forward five years, and I'm using Ubuntu. Let me clarify a bit that these aren't bad people saying stuff like I like compiling my own kernel. I have a friend whose the maintainer of some core packages (coreutils and gnu utils), and these are the kinds of things he said. Good people who do good things, good friends who I drink with, but we disagree on some things. Me too. But let's not kid ourselves: Ubuntu is the nice packaging of data/software provided by others. This is of course an oversimplification but by and large, Ubuntu is a very good example of a project that has added pretty packaging, user friendliness, and a help desk to things that have been there before. That's true, but I think the Wikipedia analogy is also darn good. OSM should be the Wikipedia of maps. That's my view. First of all, one would have to define the exact difference between OSM is providing maps and another project is providing maps. Why exactly would OSM have to provide maps; is it because we think we would gain something from it - more visibility, more sponsors perhaps? Excellent question! The reason I think OSM should be providing the maps is that OSM is the one making them. It's about the full circle of display and creation. It's also about community. OSM is not about some random collection of facts, but about the work of thousands. I think it's cool that other project use OSM data, but I like the idea that we stay a cohesive community, able to work out issues as a group. And if so, would that advantage not be nullified by the resources that offering those maps consumes, and would it not be a better organisational structure overall if there were two separate entities? Even if we all agreed that someone should do X, and even if we had people standing by willing to do the work and even if we had sponsors standing by willing to pay the money, would it be ideal for OSM/OSMF to do X? I think a stronger OSMF, that actively fund raised to the right parties, would reduce these resource concerns. I know the current model, though, and I think it's sub-optimal. Secondly, and this touches on something from my looking forward post a few days ago, we have always made it clear that there are no official tags and no official list and no promise that anything gets rendered anywhere. This has many advantages, decoupling editing from rendering, and brings many freedoms, but if we were to push that one true map or maybe these ten true maps and try to be the map portal for everyone then that would be the end of saying well the Mapnik map is just a showcase and you cannot expect us to render everything. We would clearly make a much stronger bond between editing and rendering; fewer and fewer people would be willing to map things that are not on our main map(s), and we'd be pushing specialist maps to the sidelines. Let's not kid ourselves: Competing with Google Maps *will* make us more like Google Maps. I don't think that's a terrible thing. If the *only* differentiator was that we're Free and they're not- that would be enough for me. I hope strongly that the view will change, that the OSMF board will reflect this view. I've seen a slight shift already in the time I've been with the project. There's far more room for discussion on the point than
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Am 30.12.2011 17:22, schrieb Thomas Davie: You've not been misled, you've misread. I don't think he has. I think, we have to find a way in between. I already mentioned my vision to provide a VIEW on the DATA, that the user can define himself. In that vision, OSM is not about maps. OSM is about the data, and the user (not necessarily mapper) would add the map on top - in providing his own stylesheet. Again: that's a vision, and probably somebody or even I myself would try to implement that: to change a front page of the project to a view of map data - which can be styles by the user on demand. Nevertheless: The good ideas don't come from users who add two points (my home and my work) and then repeatingly view the nice map. The good ideas and benefits for the project come from people who do something with the data: Extending the data itself (mapping) or using the data in a new fashion, like many projects show: quizzes generated from osm data, routing applications, new styled maps and many more. Of course these ideas support the project - but I think, they do it the same way like LibreOffice and Mozilla support ubuntu or debian - without being part of the distributor or distribution project. OSM is nothing (useful for the average user) without maps - that's true. Linux is nothing (useful for the average user) without software. So what? OSM can be the backend for great distributions, great software and nice maps. regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] What can we do to get a tile.openstreetmap.org contributable CDN within a month?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 The basic outline; - - People seem to love using tile.openstreetmap.org for any of their apps - - Apps get blocked for various reasons, contributing back is difficult - - OpenStreetMap wants to be the leading provider of such data I would propose a small working group to outline what should happen to facilitate the creation of a Content Delivery Network (CDN) serving the basic tiles, and allow easy contribution this network. This should produce a prototype of at least 3 servers. Questions such as: quality, update frequency, traffic shaping, geographical balancing and high availability could be part of this working group. I would like to invite anyone to participate, especially: - people that already have their own tileservers running, and/or are currently balancing traffic; - business folks: what could be a motivation and what can be a cutback in for example attribution, - users of for example openlayers, etc. what kind of caching can be applied, and if this should be configurable client side Participation can announced in private or on list. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAk798H0ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2I9ACeJV+vFfBvI4CaTET0BqjuuX1s G78AnRv6+Qh7MkIrN1DQ6fQ34p1j0uuS =+WNS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] What can we do to get a tile.openstreetmap.org contributable CDN within a month?
I have mentioned the fact many times that archive.org has allowed for tile hosting, i...@archive.org is the address for asking permission. mike On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 The basic outline; - - People seem to love using tile.openstreetmap.org for any of their apps - - Apps get blocked for various reasons, contributing back is difficult - - OpenStreetMap wants to be the leading provider of such data I would propose a small working group to outline what should happen to facilitate the creation of a Content Delivery Network (CDN) serving the basic tiles, and allow easy contribution this network. This should produce a prototype of at least 3 servers. Questions such as: quality, update frequency, traffic shaping, geographical balancing and high availability could be part of this working group. I would like to invite anyone to participate, especially: - people that already have their own tileservers running, and/or are currently balancing traffic; - business folks: what could be a motivation and what can be a cutback in for example attribution, - users of for example openlayers, etc. what kind of caching can be applied, and if this should be configurable client side Participation can announced in private or on list. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAk798H0ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2I9ACeJV+vFfBvI4CaTET0BqjuuX1s G78AnRv6+Qh7MkIrN1DQ6fQ34p1j0uuS =+WNS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ dev mailing list d...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] What can we do to get a tile.openstreetmap.org contributable CDN within a month?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 I have just summerized the e-mail by Mike, and created a wiki page the follow up the status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TileCDN Op 30-12-11 18:23, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) schreef: I would love to monitor such discussion and contribute if I think I have something to offer. Will such discussion be here on the [OSM-dev} or elsewhere? I don't want to induce a lot of offtopic and negatively. The 30 days in the subject is something that I would like to realise, not talk about. Theoretically the CoralCDN could be used for distributing OSM tiles by simply suffixing the domain with .nyud.net, but I have not tried this yet. There would be little to no intelligence brought to bear on how long individual tiles would be cached vs flushed and/or whether mixed-revision tiles would be present in and delivered from the cache, not to mention that I don't think the CoralCDN passes through the original User-Agent either. I do not have yet investigated what the options are of CoralCDN, but the main problem is to get the *alternative used*. I guess switching to a system that is partly in our own hands results in a higher quality, thus we must have ability to invalidate data quickly. If that is covered in CoralCDN the only thing remaining is finding a good solution for the 'hostname' issue. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAk7+AE4ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3V1ACfd9wODnhcav/lC0jnaK816/AX YAwAnig+5IuGoiuxciB32FHl3ulnMvjk =pKVk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
Serge, They're not orthogonal. The core question is What is the project's goals? and based on what you've said in the past, you want a small project generally. Small number of editors, small OSMF, etc. I would be absolutely thrilled to have, say, Google throw away their data and say we'll be using OSM from now on. I wouldn't say that should be our #1 ambition but it would surely be a nice thing. One would hope that while this would send more people our way for editing, the first level support will remain with Google in such a scenario, as will the considerable housekeeping effort of actually getting all those tiles to those who want them. It is mainly these things I fear, and for which I think we are not well equipped - large scale operations dealing with large numbers of consumer type users. Doing that would, I believe, require a transformation of OSMF that goes far beyond let's put a little flattr button here any maybe we get enough money for an extra tile server. We're talking long-term financial planning, hiring staff, and hiring more staff to raise funds to pay for them all. We're talking continuous fundraising action and all that. I am not sure if those advocating big OSM(F) are clear on that. You'd look at tha balance sheets and say Ah, obviously 99% of what this OSMF does is producing map tiles and distributing/selling them. And they seem to be doing this little community thing on the side. - and at the same time, 99% of all work in the OSMF board would go towards how to make tile serving better and the web portal nicer, and 1% would be spent on this little community thing on the side. It may be an irrational fear (they mostly are). But I would feel much better if someone else would hire staff, acquire funds, buy servers, render tiles, offset the risks and all that - someone without direct influence on OSM. That way, OSMF would not be tainted by such operations and could concentrate on what we need them to do, rather than on things that others can do just as well. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The Best way to show individual shops within a shopping complex?
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Hi Does anyone have any completed examples of how best to map/tag a shopping complex/mall where it's at the level of naming individual shops? I didn't add dividing walls, but did add walkways and shops by dead-reckoning. This is a single level shopping mall, http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/68282457 A very determined Toronto mapper has added shops in the multi-level Eaton Centre, shops and walkways are marked with level= http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4321312 Best regards, Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
On Dec 30, 2011, at 7:42 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: In fact, many of those arguing for OSM becoming a nice map portal haven't even touched the subject of editing in their argument. ... Secondly, and this touches on something from my looking forward post a few days ago, we have always made it clear that there are no official tags and no official list and no promise that anything gets rendered anywhere. This has many advantages, decoupling editing from rendering, and brings many freedoms, but if we were to push that one true map or maybe these ten true maps and try to be the map portal for everyone then that would be the end of saying well the Mapnik map is just a showcase and you cannot expect us to render everything. We would clearly make a much stronger bond between editing and rendering; fewer and fewer people would be willing to map things that are not on our main map(s), and we'd be pushing specialist maps to the sidelines. Let's not kid ourselves: Competing with Google Maps *will* make us more like Google Maps. For what it's worth, I didn't really start editing until the Mapnik loop closed and I could see my edits on the same day I made them. This was a huge difference for me, and a step up from making an edit, waiting several days for it to show up, and then making another one. The main Mapnik layer is one of the only products OSM makes that's visible to regular humans, and even though someone like me *could* stay up-to-the-minute with the replication diffs it's more often the case that it doesn't happen. Serge's mention of closing the circle is critical, because it keeps the promise inherent in the name Open Street Map - somewhere, somehow, people should be able to see a decent map, and it would be best if it were a reliable enough resource to be generally usable by the world at large. At the same time, the current home page is 99% map and 1% anything else, so we're *already* implicitly competing with GMaps through our homepage design. Here's my opinion of what the front page should look like, based on a pastiche of elements pulled from various OSM sites including .de, the wiki, and the current page: http://mike.teczno.com/img/osm-homepage-sketch.jpg First, there's still a map across the top of the page, but now it's smaller. It's kept for two primary reasons: visitors must be able to see that ultimately all the work leads to a usable map, and six years of permalinks to specific locations should not be broken. The overall tab layout across the top (with the Edit tab) stays, but I expect that each tab might lead to a second page with a taller, more page-hogging map on it for roomy editing. The space below the map is there for the project to explain itself. We should quibble about the choice of sections (I've borrowed these wholesale from .de) but this area is in place to say something about what OSM is *for*: it's something you can join, there's data you can use, etc. In the bottom-right corner is the wiki Image Of The Week, which is so often the home of solid gold output from the OSM community, whether it's new renders or photos of mappers. This part will change, and will reinforce the dynamic nature of the project. There will be cool and weird pictures there. In the sidebar, I've just copied some stuff from the wiki. Honestly, I don't know what should go here—I never pay attention to sidebars on websites, but presumably if someone is absolutely scratching their head then being able to scan the page for the word Help or Blog will get them out of a jam. Back to the map: The OL layers menu is replaced with an old-Gmaps-style set of buttons, because if you don't know OpenLayers how will you know that the Blue Plus will give you something interesting? Buttons encourage pushing, which addresses the need to show a variety of cartographic outputs beyond the default Mapnik layer. The current choice of layers is good: Mapnik is what editors need to see what they are doing, Cycle and Transport both show what it means to highlight entirely different sets of tags, and MapQuest shows that third parties with recognizable names should get involved. I can't think of a rationale for keeping Osmarender in the list. Data is a special case - I think it should be implemented in the form of a combined thinline raster layer and a backing data layer driven by a data format similar to Mapnik's new UTF Grid feature to support clicking on features. If we do this smartly, then we can simultaneously solve clickable POI's which is one of the OSMF's list of Top Ten tasks that they want handled. I believe SWG are having a discussion about core values at the moment. Suffice it to say: There are core values of this project, and if you don't share them than you can care for OSM as much as you want, you're in the wrong project. Now what exactly these core values or important goals are, is open to discussion. *My* vision is that by
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Het IJ leeggepompt!
Het is weer flink mis... http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.37667lon=4.93481zoom=15layers=M gr, floris 2011/12/27 Willem Sonke willemso...@planet.nl: Het commentaar bij deze changeset is /MP repairs (OSMI)/. De OSM Inspector [1] geeft in deze regio inderdaad multipolygoonfouten, onder meer /touching inner rings/ en /invalid geometry/. Deze gebruiker heeft overigens ook op andere plaatsen dergelijke veranderingen gedaan, waaronder in Den Haag, maar daar zie ik zo snel geen problemen op de kaart. Willem Sonke [1] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=multipolygonlon=4.83140lat=52.41107zoom=13overlays=invalid_geometry_hull,duplicate_ways,intersections,intersection_lines,ring_not_closed_hull,ring_not_closed,unconnected_end_nodes,touching_inner_rings_hull,touching_inner_rings,role_mismatch_hull,role_mismatch,duplicate_tags_hull,duplicate_tags,multipolygons_type_is_boundary,type_is_boundary,ways,role_markers,way_end_nodes,way_nodes On 27-12-11 15:30, Piet Smits wrote: Iemand heeft op 22 december deze way uit de relatie 1704 (die het zelfde lijkt als relatie Het IJ) gehaald. Wellicht had het daar iets mee te maken: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1704/history Bij de monding van de Ertshaven zie (of zag) je hetzelfde. grtz, Piet Op 27-12-2011 15:15, Floris Looijesteijn schreef: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/67559262 Ja, Willem1, die wijziging is te zien. Op dit moment wordt ie ook weer goed gerenderd. Renderbugje dus denk ik... Thanks all! Groet, Floris 2011/12/27 Floris Looijesteijno...@floris.nu: Volgens mij is die historie niet actueel. De weg waar ik het in m'n andere mailtje over heb, heb ik net enorm aan lopen trekken maar die staat nog steeds op de vorige editor z'n naam. Groet, Floris 2011/12/27 Maarten Deenmd...@xs4all.nl: On 2011-12-27 14:03, Floris Looijesteijn wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.37914lon=4.92726zoom=15layers=M Wie heeft er zin om even te kijken wat er aan de hand is? Vreemd. Dat stukje IJ is sinds juli 2010 niet aangeraakt: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/67559262 3dshapes:ggmodelk = 23 name = Het IJ natural = water source = 3dShapes Lijkt ok. Ik kan in Potlatch alleen niet controleren of de way helemaal correct is (closed en continuous). Maarten ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Het IJ leeggepompt!
Ik hoop het nu opgelost te hebben: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets?bbox=4.90268%2C52.36723%2C4.97632%2C52.39065 Wat er precies aan de hand was: geen idee. Eerst dacht ik dat het komt omdat er twee multipolygonen waren, dus ik heb er een (rel. nr. 1704: komt nog uit de AND-import) verwijderd. Dat hielp niet. Later heb ik de 3 polygonen met de naam Het IJ gemerged, aangezien er verder geen verschil hiertussen zit. Dat was nog niet voldoende, dus heb ik wat edits in de omgeving gemaakt. Uiteindelijk kon het oostelijke deel van de IJhaven pas gerenderd worden nadat ik twee eilandjes had toegevoegd die ik op Bing zag. Groeten, Frank On 30-12-2011 13:14, Floris Looijesteijn wrote: Het is weer flink mis... http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.37667lon=4.93481zoom=15layers=M gr, floris 2011/12/27 Willem Sonkewillemso...@planet.nl: Het commentaar bij deze changeset is /MP repairs (OSMI)/. De OSM Inspector [1] geeft in deze regio inderdaad multipolygoonfouten, onder meer /touching inner rings/ en /invalid geometry/. Deze gebruiker heeft overigens ook op andere plaatsen dergelijke veranderingen gedaan, waaronder in Den Haag, maar daar zie ik zo snel geen problemen op de kaart. Willem Sonke [1] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=multipolygonlon=4.83140lat=52.41107zoom=13overlays=invalid_geometry_hull,duplicate_ways,intersections,intersection_lines,ring_not_closed_hull,ring_not_closed,unconnected_end_nodes,touching_inner_rings_hull,touching_inner_rings,role_mismatch_hull,role_mismatch,duplicate_tags_hull,duplicate_tags,multipolygons_type_is_boundary,type_is_boundary,ways,role_markers,way_end_nodes,way_nodes On 27-12-11 15:30, Piet Smits wrote: Iemand heeft op 22 december deze way uit de relatie 1704 (die het zelfde lijkt als relatie Het IJ) gehaald. Wellicht had het daar iets mee te maken: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1704/history Bij de monding van de Ertshaven zie (of zag) je hetzelfde. grtz, Piet Op 27-12-2011 15:15, Floris Looijesteijn schreef: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/67559262 Ja, Willem1, die wijziging is te zien. Op dit moment wordt ie ook weer goed gerenderd. Renderbugje dus denk ik... Thanks all! Groet, Floris 2011/12/27 Floris Looijesteijno...@floris.nu: Volgens mij is die historie niet actueel. De weg waar ik het in m'n andere mailtje over heb, heb ik net enorm aan lopen trekken maar die staat nog steeds op de vorige editor z'n naam. Groet, Floris 2011/12/27 Maarten Deenmd...@xs4all.nl: On 2011-12-27 14:03, Floris Looijesteijn wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.37914lon=4.92726zoom=15layers=M Wie heeft er zin om even te kijken wat er aan de hand is? Vreemd. Dat stukje IJ is sinds juli 2010 niet aangeraakt: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/67559262 3dshapes:ggmodelk = 23 name = Het IJ natural = water source = 3dShapes Lijkt ok. Ik kan in Potlatch alleen niet controleren of de way helemaal correct is (closed en continuous). Maarten ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [Talk-de] Downloadprobleme Aerowest
Hallo, Am Donnerstag, 29. Dezember 2011 schrieb Schorschi: hast du den Download auch heute oder gestern probiert? Nein, ich habe den Hinweis ohne erneuten Test gegeben, Asche auf mein Haupt. :-). Am 22. hatte ich das Plugin-Problem festgestellt und da ging der Download auch noch mit der Plugin-freien Variante. Aber jetzt ist auch bei mir Ende. Gruß, Carsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Fährlinien
Hi, für ein gutes Routing ist es wichtig, dass die Fähre an das Straßennetz angeschlossen ist. Das dürfte aber auch so in der Realität aussehen, denn sonst kommen die ganzen Autos ja nicht auf die Fähre. Bei kleineren Personenfähren führt das letzte Stück meist über einen Pier. Letztlich wird das ganze wohl nur über Relationen sinnvoll abgebildet werden können. Ich würde eine idealisierte Linie zeichnen, ähnlich wie man sie von anderen Kartenwerken kennt. Die reale Route weicht ohnehin immer mal wieder ab. Mal gehts links an der Insel vorbei, mal rechts etc. Henning ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Regeln im OSMI-ODbL-View
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 07:27:57PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hallo, ich habe im OSMI-Lizenzwechsel-View jetzt drei Regelaenderungen eingebaut: 1. Ein ungetaggter Node, der von einem Ablehner erstellt und spaeter von einem Zustimmer bewegt wurde, war vorher rot und ist jetzt ueberhaupt nicht mehr eingefaerbt, weil man davon ausgehen kann, dass der urspruengliche Mapper kein Copyright an einer reinen Positionsangabe haben kann. Da geht noch was nicht: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfelon=8.31852lat=51.77051zoom=15overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_modified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,wtfe_line_created Hier sollte alles rot sein - Langenberg habe mehr oder minder ausschliesslich ich bearbeitet und ich habe nicht zugestimmt. JOSM zeig 83% der Objekte mich als letzten bearbeiter. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Regeln im OSMI-ODbL-View
Flo, du bist adoptiert Siehe http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quick_History_Service Ich nehme an, dass ist in deinem Sinne? Simon Am 30.12.2011 13:25, schrieb Florian Lohoff: On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 07:27:57PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hallo, ich habe im OSMI-Lizenzwechsel-View jetzt drei Regelaenderungen eingebaut: 1. Ein ungetaggter Node, der von einem Ablehner erstellt und spaeter von einem Zustimmer bewegt wurde, war vorher rot und ist jetzt ueberhaupt nicht mehr eingefaerbt, weil man davon ausgehen kann, dass der urspruengliche Mapper kein Copyright an einer reinen Positionsangabe haben kann. Da geht noch was nicht: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfelon=8.31852lat=51.77051zoom=15overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_modified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,wtfe_line_created Hier sollte alles rot sein - Langenberg habe mehr oder minder ausschliesslich ich bearbeitet und ich habe nicht zugestimmt. JOSM zeig 83% der Objekte mich als letzten bearbeiter. Flo ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Regeln im OSMI-ODbL-View
Hi Florian. Dein User-Account wird aufgrund deines Statements, deine Beiträge seine PD (vgl. Wiki) in den Ausnahmelisten als okay eingestuft. Der ODBL-View berücksichtigt dafür die Overrides, die unter [1] eingetragen sind, und da bist du - m.E. lizenzrechtlich zu Recht, dabei. Gruß Peter [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WTFE Am 30.12.2011 13:25, schrieb Florian Lohoff: On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 07:27:57PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hallo, ich habe im OSMI-Lizenzwechsel-View jetzt drei Regelaenderungen eingebaut: 1. Ein ungetaggter Node, der von einem Ablehner erstellt und spaeter von einem Zustimmer bewegt wurde, war vorher rot und ist jetzt ueberhaupt nicht mehr eingefaerbt, weil man davon ausgehen kann, dass der urspruengliche Mapper kein Copyright an einer reinen Positionsangabe haben kann. Da geht noch was nicht: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfelon=8.31852lat=51.77051zoom=15overlays=overview,wtfe_point_clean,wtfe_line_clean,wtfe_point_harmless,wtfe_line_harmless,wtfe_point_modified,wtfe_line_modified_cp,wtfe_line_modified,wtfe_point_created,wtfe_line_created_cp,wtfe_line_created Hier sollte alles rot sein - Langenberg habe mehr oder minder ausschliesslich ich bearbeitet und ich habe nicht zugestimmt. JOSM zeig 83% der Objekte mich als letzten bearbeiter. Flo ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Regeln im OSMI-ODbL-View
Am 30.12.2011 13:25, schrieb Florian Lohoff: Da geht noch was nicht: [...] Hier sollte alles rot sein - Langenberg habe mehr oder minder ausschliesslich ich bearbeitet und ich habe nicht zugestimmt. Aber unter http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Flohoff erklärst Du explizit: = All my contributions to OpenStreetMap are released into the public domain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/public_domain. This applies worldwide. = Damit dürf(t)en die Daten m.E. nach OBDL übernommen werden... On die Systeme das alles korrekt verarbeiten kann ich allerdings jetzt nichts sagen. Grüße, Michael. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Regeln im OSMI-ODbL-View
Hallo, On 12/30/11 13:25, Florian Lohoff wrote: Hier sollte alles rot sein - Langenberg habe mehr oder minder ausschliesslich ich bearbeitet und ich habe nicht zugestimmt. Der OSMI hat eine Override-Tabelle, in der bestimmte User und bestimmte Changesets gelistet sind, deren Daten *trotz* ihrer fehlenden Zustimmung uebernommen werden koennen, weil es sich z.B. um Datenimporte, automatische Aenderungen, oder um Beitraege von Usern handelt, die oeffentlich erklaert haben, dass ihre Daten PD sind. Diese Tabelle wird hier gepflegt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WTFE Damit ich nicht selbst den Stress habe, zu entscheiden, wessen Edits da reinkommen und wessen nicht, erwarte ich, dass andere User sich die Arbeit machen, das zu pruefen und auch mit ihrem Namen und ggf. ihrer Handarbeit dafuer zu stehen, wenn sie einen Eintrag machen. Freimut Kahrs hat Dich in diese Override-Tabelle eingetragen, vermutlich, weil Du auf Deiner Wiki-Userseite das PD-Template gesetzt hast. Fuer den OSMI und die License Change Views in den Editoren sind diese Daten also sauber. Es gibt bei der Sache die kleine Komplikation, dass die LWG solche PD-aber-nicht-CT-Spielchen eigentlich nicht moechte, denn von solchen Usern fehlt uns dann die Konformitaetserklaerung, die man mit den CT normalerweise abgeben wuerde. Wenn sich die LWG da nicht noch umentscheidet, dann koennte es passieren, dass die auf diesem Weg als sauber markierten Daten am Ende doch geloescht werden muessen. Dennoch hielte ich das fuer kein Problem, denn dann koennte ein einzelner User - naemlich der, der den Eintrag in die Wikitabelle gemacht hat - sie aufgrund der PD-Erklaerung flugs wieder unter seinem Namen importieren. Dabei muesste *er* dann eben anstatt des urspruenglichen Mappers fuer die Edits geradestehen. Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Regeln im OSMI-ODbL-View
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 02:07:37PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hallo, On 12/30/11 13:25, Florian Lohoff wrote: Hier sollte alles rot sein - Langenberg habe mehr oder minder ausschliesslich ich bearbeitet und ich habe nicht zugestimmt. Der OSMI hat eine Override-Tabelle, in der bestimmte User und bestimmte Changesets gelistet sind, deren Daten *trotz* ihrer fehlenden Zustimmung uebernommen werden koennen, weil es sich z.B. um Datenimporte, automatische Aenderungen, oder um Beitraege von Usern handelt, die oeffentlich erklaert haben, dass ihre Daten PD sind. Ich dachte die einhellige meinung ist das PD contributions wegen fehlender CT nicht gehen? Andernfalls koennte man ja meinen Account auch wieder Freigeben oder? Freimut Kahrs hat Dich in diese Override-Tabelle eingetragen, vermutlich, weil Du auf Deiner Wiki-Userseite das PD-Template gesetzt hast. Fuer den OSMI und die License Change Views in den Editoren sind diese Daten also sauber. Richtig. Es gibt bei der Sache die kleine Komplikation, dass die LWG solche PD-aber-nicht-CT-Spielchen eigentlich nicht moechte, denn von solchen Usern fehlt uns dann die Konformitaetserklaerung, die man mit den CT normalerweise abgeben wuerde. Wenn sich die LWG da nicht noch umentscheidet, dann koennte es passieren, dass die auf diesem Weg als sauber markierten Daten am Ende doch geloescht werden muessen. Dennoch hielte ich das fuer kein Problem, denn dann koennte ein einzelner User - naemlich der, der den Eintrag in die Wikitabelle gemacht hat - sie aufgrund der PD-Erklaerung flugs wieder unter seinem Namen importieren. Dabei muesste *er* dann eben anstatt des urspruenglichen Mappers fuer die Edits geradestehen. Dann sollten diese aber doch markiert werden denn sie sind definitiv nach der heutigen aussage der LWG doch nicht zulaessig oder? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Regeln im OSMI-ODbL-View
Hallo, On 12/30/11 14:29, Florian Lohoff wrote: Es gibt bei der Sache die kleine Komplikation, dass die LWG solche PD-aber-nicht-CT-Spielchen eigentlich nicht moechte, denn von solchen Usern fehlt uns dann die Konformitaetserklaerung, die man mit den CT normalerweise abgeben wuerde. Wenn sich die LWG da nicht noch umentscheidet, dann koennte es passieren, dass die auf diesem Weg als sauber markierten Daten am Ende doch geloescht werden muessen. Dennoch hielte ich das fuer kein Problem, denn dann koennte ein einzelner User - naemlich der, der den Eintrag in die Wikitabelle gemacht hat - sie aufgrund der PD-Erklaerung flugs wieder unter seinem Namen importieren. Dabei muesste *er* dann eben anstatt des urspruenglichen Mappers fuer die Edits geradestehen. Dann sollten diese aber doch markiert werden denn sie sind definitiv nach der heutigen aussage der LWG doch nicht zulaessig oder? Der OSMI ist kein offizielles Tool, sondern meins. Ich versuche, das so zu gestalten, dass es maximal nuetzlich ist; insbesondere soll der OSMI aufzeigen, wo Daten neu erfasst werden muessen. Wenn Freimut nun sagt - und das hat er durch seinen Wiki-Eintrag - ich stehe dafuer gerade, dass Florians Edits uns erhalten bleiben, entweder, indem sich die LWG noch umentscheidet oder notfalls, indem ich alle seine Daten unter meinem Account hochlade, dann entfaellt fuer mich damit die Notwendigkeit, diese Daten per Markierung zum Remapping auszuschreiben - sie wuerden nur unnoetig ablenken von dem, was *wirklich* verloren geht und wo *wirklich* jemand hingehen und alles neu aufzeichnen muss. Ich ignoriere also mit dem OSMI, wenn Du so willst, einfach die offizielle Position, weil die offizielle Position nicht relevant ist; Du willst den CT nicht zustimmen, erlaubst aber durch die PD-Freigabe jemand anderem, sozusagen an Deiner Statt fuer diese Daten geradezustehen. In Deinem Fall hat sich Freimut bereiterklaert, dieser andere zu sein, und damit schrumpft das Problem fuer mich auf ein reines Problem der technischen Abwicklung zusammen: Wird die LWG Deine Daten einfach so uebernehmen? Wird sie die Daten per kompiziertem UPDATE-Statement einfach einem anderen, noch zu erstellenden, Account zuschlagen? Wird sie fordern, dass Freimut tatsaechlich alles loescht und neu hochlaedt? All das spielt aber fuer die Praxis und fuer die Frage wo muessen wir ueberall neu mappen? keine Rolle, und deswegen sind die Daten im OSMI auch nicht speziell markiert. Ich koennte darueber nachdenken, eine zusaetzliche Farbe fuer solche uebersteuerten Edits einzufuehren. Darunter fielen dann z.B. auch die gesamten Grenzimporte in Spanien oder die weltweit verteilen Edits von James Mike Dupont. Aber das erhoeht die Datenmenge und macht den OSMI langsamer. Ist es so wichtig, dass man das in Kauf nehmen sollte? Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Konzept für straßenbegleitende Wege
Moin, in OSM werden immer Wege im Detail erfasst. Straßenbegleitende Rad- und Fußwege werden zu eigenen ways, zweigleisige Bahnstrecken zu zwei Einzellinien. Dies hat natürlich viele Vorteile, verursacht aber auch suboptimale Karten in kleinem bis mittlerem Zoomlevel oder unnötige Routinganweisungen. Ich habe mir Gedanken gemacht, wie man einige Nachteile vermeiden kann. Vermutlich wurden ähnliche Konzepte schon diskutiert, aber ich habe sie mangels geeigneter Stichworte nicht gefunden. Im Workshop Linienbündel [1] werden andere Ideen verglichen. Im folgenden steht das Wort Radweg für alle Radwege, Fußwege, kombinierten Fahrrad-/Fußwege und Reitwege. Die Tagnamen sind nur Platzhalter für bessere Namen. Straßen, für die ein straßenbegleitender Radweg als eigener way existiert, erhalten ein Zusatztag: attendant_cycleway_exists=yes Straßenbegleitende Radwege erhalten ein Zusatztag attendant_cycleway=yes Getrennten Richtungsfahrbahnen einer Straße erhalten ein Zusatztag, das ihre Lage beschreibt. Bei einer grob in Ost-West-Richtung verlaufenden Straße wäre dies dual_carriageway=north (Nordfahrbahn in Fahrtrichtung West) und dual_carriageway=south , bei Nord-Süd-Strecken analog dual_carriageway=east|west. Bei Nordwest-Südost-Stecken hat der Mapper freie Wahl. Für zweigleisige Bahnstrecken werden dieselben Tags benutzt. Das Konzept kommt ohne zusätzliche Relationen aus und ist kompatibel zu den bislang vorhandenen Daten und Anwendungen. Vorteile: - Renderer können in kleinem Zoomlevel (z=12) bei Straßen mit Mittelstreifen nur eine Doppellinie statt zwei überlappender Fahrbahnen zeichnen. Zweigleisige Bahnstrecken können als dickere Linie dargestellt werden. - Renderer können in kleinem bis mittlerem Zoomlevel (z=15) straßenbegleitende Radwege unterdrücken und die Straße durch z.B. andere Randfarbe kennzeichnen. - Renderer können Einbahnstraßenpfeile bei Straßen mit Mittelstreifen vermeiden (bei vielen Stadtplänen üblich) - Renderer können Straßennamen und Ref-Nummern nur für eine Richtungsfahrbahn (z.B. north und west) zeichnen. Die Karte wird übersichtlicher. - Router können leichter erkennen, das mehrere ways zur selben Straße gehören und Zielpunkte je nach Verkehrsmittel besser berechnen. - Router können Anweisungen optimieren (Fahren sie auf den straßenbegleitenden Radweg.) - für manche Auswertung/Statistik kann die Unterscheidung zwischen echten Einbahnstraßen und Richtungsfahrbahnen oder zwischen eigenständigen und straßenbegleitenden Radwegen nützlich sein. Nachteile: - ein weiterer Tag pro way muss eingegeben und gepflegt werden - manche ways müssen aufgespalten werden (z.B. wenn nur eine Teilstrecke einer Straße einen Radweg besitzt) Wurde ein solches Konzept schon diskutiert? Wäre es so oder ähnlich umsetzbar? Rechtfertigen die Vorteile den Zusatzaufwand? Viele Grüße Stephan [1] http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_Germany/Workshops/Linienb%C3%BCndel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neue Regeln im OSMI-ODbL-View
Hallo. Am 30.12.2011 14:29, schrieb Florian Lohoff: Ich dachte die einhellige meinung ist das PD contributions wegen fehlender CT nicht gehen? Andernfalls koennte man ja meinen Account auch wieder Freigeben oder? Die Aussage meine Edits sind PD kannst du auf der OSM-Account-Seite nicht abgeben ohne den CT zuzustimmen, das ist korrekt. Aber rein lizenzrechtlich ist ja die Akzeptanz der CT eine Untermenge einer PD-Freigabe. Deine Daten können wenn sie unter PD stehen auch von jedermann benutzt und unter den CT neu bei OSM hochgeladen werden, sowas erlaubt man mit einer PD-Freigabe ja explizit. Technisch ist es also eventuell etwas aufwändig, rechtlich ist aber klar, dass es mit deinen Daten kein Problem geben wird. (Unter der Maßgabe dass du nach wie vor zu deiner PD-Lizenzierung stehst.) Gruß, Bernd -- Fachbegriffe der Informatik (#213): NT-Fernwartung Microsoft Cordless Wheel Mouse (Auf der CeBit 2001 aufgeschnappt von Moritz Mühlenhoff) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Falsches/verwirrendes Routing via Garmin
Hallo, kann sich bitte mal jemand die Kreuzung bei diesem Punkt ansehen? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/25218445 Ich habe heute testhalber mein Garmin mitlaufen lassen während ich diese, mir bekannte, Strecke gefahren bin. Ich kam von rechts (weiß gerenderte Straße, Ludwigstraße) und fahre auf die Kreuzung zu. Ich halte dort (rote Ampel) und als dann der Kreuzung näher komme kommt folgende Ansage: Rechts abbiegen in die Partensteiner Straße Im Display ein über die Kreuzung gehender und dann richtung Partensteiner Straße rechts abknickender Pfeil. Ich empfinde das, wenn ich diese Ansage vor einer Kreuzung bekomme, als irreführend. Ich hätte erst eine Ansage erwartet, die auf die Kreuzung eingeht. Wenn man sich blind auf die Ansagen verlässt, dann kommt man hier in Versuchung in der Kreuzung rechts abzubiegen. Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] aperte le votazioni per place=neighbourhood e place=quarter
2011/12/29 Milani Alessio klava...@gmail.com: In data giovedì 29 dicembre 2011 15:00:16, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto: place=neighbourhood: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/place%3Dneighbourhood place=quarter http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/place%3Dquarter Quindi place=quarter potrebbe essere una frazione anche fisicamente separata di un village o di una town e place=neighbourhood un quartiere di una town ma non di una city? no, l'idea è di avere in una city più entità sotto suburb, e di avere entità più piccoli per town e village. Quindi in una città potresti avere un place=suburb che a sua volta ha dei place=quarter di quali si compone il suburb (evventualmente i quarter e suburb non coincidono). Poi i quarter si potrebbe sudivvidere in neighbourhoods. Invece un village non avrebbe dei suburb ma solo neighbourhoods. Il discorso frazione mi sembra invece riferito all'amministrazione, e quindi non un tema di place ma di boundary=administrative e admin_level / relazioni amministrativi. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] questione licenza?
Scusate ma non ho ben capito la questione licenze. Vuol dire che tutto il lavoro fatto viene cancellato? Come è possibile? A me non è arrivata nessuna informazione boh. Comunque se uno ha lavorato con una licenza il lavoro è stato fatto con quella se poi cambia dovrebbe arrivare una nota informativa e dire da oggi se vuoi modificare qualcosa devi aggiornare la licenza. Non dovrebbe essere così? Ciao ne approfitto per augurare un Buon 2012 ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] questione licenza?
On 2011-12-30 at 16:10:32 +0100, beppebo...@libero.it wrote: Scusate ma non ho ben capito la questione licenze. Vuol dire che tutto il lavoro fatto viene cancellato? Come è possibile? Non tutto, solo una parte si spera il piu` piccolo possibile di contributi per i quali non si è riusciti in alcun modo ad ottenere il cambio di licenza da parte degli autori. A me non è arrivata nessuna informazione boh. Comunque se uno ha lavorato con una licenza il lavoro è stato fatto con quella se poi cambia dovrebbe arrivare una nota informativa e dire da oggi se vuoi modificare qualcosa devi aggiornare la licenza. Non dovrebbe essere così? Difatti è stato così: chi si è iscritto dopo una certa data ha già accettato la nuova licenza, per cui non deve ricevere niente, gli altri hanno ricevuto un messaggio in cui si chiedeva se si era disposti ad accettare il cambio di licenza e di termini di contribuzione. Il processo di cambio licenza sta andando avanti da svariati mesi (anni), ormai ci stiamo avvicinando alla fine. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector
-Original Message- From: totera [mailto:g...@hotmail.it] Sent: giovedì 29 dicembre 2011 19:43 To: talk-it@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector Buona idea... risposte? Dei miei 14 hanno accettato soltanto in tre. Idea apparentemente poco efficace, su 15 ha accettato solo uno, l'unico che ha risposto Facendo qualche ricerca ho visto che alcuni utenti con lo stesso nome e della stessa zona in cui hanno operato su OSM sono attivi su altri siti/reti sociali, ma contattarli al di fuori di OSM mi sa un po' di stalking... Sarebbe interessante perlomeno poter sapere i casi in cui il PM inviato su OSM non è stato letto e la relativa email di notifica è rimbalzata. In questo caso credo che sarebbe accettabile tentare di contattarli con altri mezzi. Ciao, Alberto ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] R: Re: questione licenza?
Messaggio originale Da: elena.valha...@gmail.com Data: 30/12/2011 17.20 A: talk-it@openstreetmap.org Ogg: Re: [Talk-it] questione licenza? On 2011-12-30 at 16:10:32 +0100, beppebo...@libero.it wrote: Scusate ma non ho ben capito la questione licenze. Vuol dire che tutto il lavoro fatto viene cancellato? Come è possibile? Non tutto, solo una parte si spera il piu` piccolo possibile di contributi per i quali non si è riusciti in alcun modo ad ottenere il cambio di licenza da parte degli autori. A me non è arrivata nessuna informazione boh. Comunque se uno ha lavorato con una licenza il lavoro è stato fatto con quella se poi cambia dovrebbe arrivare una nota informativa e dire da oggi se vuoi modificare qualcosa devi aggiornare la licenza. Non dovrebbe essere così? Difatti è stato così: chi si è iscritto dopo una certa data ha già accettato la nuova licenza, per cui non deve ricevere niente, gli altri hanno ricevuto un messaggio in cui si chiedeva se si era disposti ad accettare il cambio di licenza e di termini di contribuzione. Il processo di cambio licenza sta andando avanti da svariati mesi (anni), ormai ci stiamo avvicinando alla fine. SPERIAMO SIA UNA PARTE PICCOLISSIMA La data del cambio quando dovrebbe essere? Ciao e grazie -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] IT:Tag:amenity=college
2011/12/25 Fabri erfab...@gmail.com: Mettiamo ai voti...visto alcuni pareri diversi, e poi una volta deciso si può cambiare la traduzione in Josm e aggiornare la pagina wiki del Tag in italiano. In teoria si potrebbe scrivere già adesso di non usarlo per i Licei. La difficoltà di traduzione nasce da questa espressione: amenity=university would be for institutions of higher education and amenity=college for further education La contrapposizione higher education vs further education è chiara nella lingua inglese. La traduzione italiana della pagina prova giustamente a distinguere tra istruzione più elevata (forse meglio superiore?) e istruzione ulteriore ma non riesce bene perché la lingua italiana non ha queste due espressioni. In ogni caso i licei italiani non sono scuole di istruzione ulteriore... Ciao, Federico ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] R: Re: questione licenza?
2011/12/30 beppebo...@libero.it beppebo...@libero.it: Il processo di cambio licenza sta andando avanti da svariati mesi (anni), ormai ci stiamo avvicinando alla fine. SPERIAMO SIA UNA PARTE PICCOLISSIMA La data del cambio quando dovrebbe essere? Aprile 2012. Le parti eliminate dal DB, almeno per l'italia sono pochissime. Si parla di pochissimi punti percentuali: http://repo.grimp.eu/osm/europe/italy_status (4.5%) -- -S ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] IT:Tag:amenity=college
2011/12/30 Federico Cozzi f.co...@gmail.com: La contrapposizione higher education vs further education è chiara nella lingua inglese. La traduzione italiana della pagina prova giustamente a distinguere tra istruzione più elevata (forse meglio superiore?) e istruzione ulteriore ma non riesce bene perché la lingua italiana non ha queste due espressioni. Wikipedia (in inglese) rende abbastanza bene l'idea: A distinction is usually made between FE (Further Education - NdSO) and higher education (HE) which is education at a higher level than secondary school, usually provided in distinct institutions such as universities. FE in the United Kingdom therefore includes education for people over 16, usually excluding universities. It is primarily taught in FE colleges (which are similar in concept to United States community colleges, and sometimes use community college in their title), work-based learning, and adult and community learning institutions. This includes post-16 courses similar to those taught at schools and sub-degree courses similar to those taught at higher education (HE) colleges (which also teach degree-level courses) and at some universities.[1] Da quanto capisco io, la distinzione è abbastanza chiara nel mondo britannico, ma non altrove. In ogni caso i licei italiani non sono scuole di istruzione ulteriore... +1 Propongo di usare amenity=university per le università e amenity=school per le altre scuole (tutti i tipi, comprese le scuole superiori) e lasciar perdere amenity=college. Che ne dite? Buon anno [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Further_education -- Cià Cristiano / Sky One Home: http://www.skyone.it (itinerari in moto e non solo) Pensieri: http://blog.skyone.it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-dk] ODbL - hvor galt ser det ud?
Hvis du ser på hele historikken, så er tallene lige lidt højere [1]. Omkring 8 noder og 8000 veje. Det er omkring 5000 noder og 1000 veje mindre end da jeg sidst så efter for 6 uger siden. [1] http://odbl.poole.ch/denmark-20111208-20111228-poly.html Med venlig hilsen Rasmus Vendelboe 2011/12/30 Soren Johannessen soren.johannes...@gmail.com Godt eksempel, jeg har siddet og kigget på Kolding området og kan 'heldigvis' ikke se de store ændringer. Men det viser, at det godt kan betale sig at forsøge at kontakte dem der ikke har accepteret den nye licens. Har vi en plan for det? Tror at det er snart sidste udkald - folk der ikke har taget stilling har fået mails på engelsk og dansk op til flere gange . Og for at være lidt morbid så kan folk faktisk godt være døde. Selv remapper jeg lidt i områder, hvis jeg kan se at en person (der ikke har svaret) ikke har været aktiv i over 1 år. Nu synes jeg ikke at det er så slemt for DKs vedkommende med ca. 2700 objekter (veje og polygoner) der skal remappes. ( http://odbl.de/denmark.html) - Det tror jeg godt OSM DK frivillige kan nå inden 1.april - Om ikke andet så er der basis for at holde et remapping-party i februar/marts med kun fokus på remapping. /Søren Johannessen ___ Talk-dk mailing list Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk ___ Talk-dk mailing list Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] ShareMap to show OSM data
Cheers Andy. Will do. Cheers, Stu On 30 Dec 2011, at 15:56, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Stuart, nice work. Write-ups like this are worth putting on the wiki somewhere so that they can easily be found by others at a later date. Cheers Andy *From:* stuart lester [mailto:stules...@googlemail.com] *Sent:* 30 December 2011 11:18 *To:* talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org *Subject:* [Talk-gb-westmidlands] ShareMap to show OSM data Hello, Following on from Andy Mabbett's request about easily working with OSM data I decided ot have a bit of a play around with some of the tools out there. I concentrated on ShareMap to try and bridge the gap between technical use of OSM data and non-technical access. The main case is where someone wants to render some OSM data over a map and embed it in their own web page. ShareMap is far from perfect (in fact I found it frustrating at times) and you cannot get fully away from a bit of technical usage. Anyway I tried to recreate the gritting map: http://sharemap.org/public/Grit%20Map This is set up as a public map, so you can simply go on and edit to see how I put it together. The technical part is using the XAPI calls to get the priority 1 and priority 2 datasets - this is how I did it: 1. Create a new Container to import the OSM data into 2. click on the import form OSM button 3. This is really annoying but you can draw a rectangle to set your bounding box, but the clicking is a bit flaky at times I found, you sort have to do a slow double click 4. You can choose common features to import, but the gritting priorities are a bit specialist so I used the custom XAPI area 5. I entered: http://open.mapquestapi.com/xapi/api/0.6/way[gritting=priority_1][bbox=-2.29209872095745,52.25813715698189,-1.3733670623948984,52.683940414232836] as you can see you can actually define your bounding box here if you get frustrated with the draw a box function (as I did) 6. Once it has (hopefully) found some features (again I found this a bit hit and miss) you can import the features (this puts the raw data into the new container) 7. I then renamed the container to Priority 1 8. I then clicked on one of the lines on the map to change the colour and apply that to all the lines in the Container 9. Saved the map This was the repeated for priority 2 roads. You can then embed the map as a thumbnail, with a link, as a static image or as a flash object (following the code inthe help page): *head* *script* type=text/javascript src=http://sharemap.org/js/sharemap.js*/script* */head* [...] *body* *div* id=mapBox style=width:300px; height:300px;** */div* *script* language=JavaScript** insertInteractiveMap('*public/Grit%20Map*','mapBox',300,300); */script* */body* You can see it is not plain sailing, but someone could potentially start to use it to create some simple maps for their own site.I'm not sure. The main thing is understanding the tags you want to import and using the custom XAPI calls if you need to. ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Jan social
Thursday 5th Jan is our next regular social. Looks like I can make it so I'll propose the Bull as usual unless it was decided otherwise last month? Anyone else around? I've updated the wiki. Cheers Andy ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
[Talk-es] Arica, Chile
Hola a todos: Resulta que estoy tratando de trabajar con la zona de Arica en Chile y pasa una cosa muy rara con la línea de costa que yo no se resolver. ¿Puede alguien darme alguna pista de como se resuelve? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-18.47lon=-70.3zoom=7layers=M Gracias de antemano y un saludo Fdo.: Santiago Higuera ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Arica, Chile
El 30/12/11 21:10, shiguera escribió: Hola a todos: Resulta que estoy tratando de trabajar con la zona de Arica en Chile y pasa una cosa muy rara con la línea de costa que yo no se resolver. ¿Puede alguien darme alguna pista de como se resuelve? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-18.47lon=-70.3zoom=7layers=M Parece que es un problema de Mapnik. Con el resto de renderizadores la costa aparece bien y los datos de la costa aparentemente no tienen ningún error. -- Por favor, no me envíe documentos con extensiones .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, .ppt, .pptx, .mdb, mdbx Instale LibreOffice desde http://es.libreoffice.org/descarga/ LibreOffice es libre: se puede copiar, modificar y redistribuir libremente. Gratis y totalmente legal. LibreOffice está en continuo desarrollo y no tendrá que pagar por las nuevas versiones. ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P
auch schieben gilt nicht: http://goo.gl/nelW4 jo, jo, bei dö weg und bei dö roan, wird dö wöd manchmoi z'kloan :-) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Dauser Martin Johannes [mailto:fen...@gmx.at] Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Dezember 2011 02:43 An: OpenStreetMap AT Betreff: Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P Ich frage mich was an der Formulierung frei BEGEHBAR so schwer zu verstehen ist. Es ist völlig egal ob ein Mountainbike ein Sportgerät ist oder nicht, denn es geht nicht. -es rollt/fährt und ist damit eindeutig nicht zulässig. Begehen heisst, dass ich mit meinen Füssen gehe. Also wer sein Rad trägt/schiebt darf es sportlich mitnehmen. Aber fahren ist nicht. ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P
Da die Diskussion ob Mtbiken erlaubt ist oder nichts, eh Off Topic ist - und zu nichts führt - fragt sich nun eher - was machen mit Herr_P. Nachdem er in PM zumindest zu mir gesagt hat, er würde die Änderungen wieder aufräumen, wenn es ihm ein Admin (damit meint er Frederik Ramm) sagt, sollte dies passieren. Denn es ist eben wie gesagt komplett egal ob legal oder illegal oder graubereich. Hier sind nützliche Informationen von vielen Wegen gelöscht worden, und Herr_P sollte dies wieder richtig stellen, oder gesperrt werden. Nur wird es viel Arbeit sein seinen Vandalismus wieder zu korrigieren. ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 30/12/11 13:18, Felix Hartmann wrote: Da die Diskussion ob Mtbiken erlaubt ist oder nichts, eh Off Topic ist - und zu nichts führt - fragt sich nun eher - was machen mit Herr_P. Nachdem er in PM zumindest zu mir gesagt hat, er würde die Änderungen wieder aufräumen, wenn es ihm ein Admin (damit meint er Frederik Ramm) sagt, sollte dies passieren. Hm - was is denn die Definition von Admin? Oder: Wer hat das sagen, welche Daten rein gehören und welche nicht? - - Die Community. Reverten kann jeder, wie Frederik schon geschrieben hat... Denn es ist eben wie gesagt komplett egal ob legal oder illegal oder graubereich. Hier sind nützliche Informationen von vielen Wegen gelöscht worden, und Herr_P sollte dies wieder richtig stellen, oder gesperrt werden. Nur wird es viel Arbeit sein seinen Vandalismus wieder zu korrigieren. Ich würd vorschlagen, dass du, wenn keine weiteren Einwände kommen, einfach die betroffenen Changesets in ein paar Tagen selbst revertest. Hatte dasselbe Spiel vor ein Wochen in Graz, da hab ich mich auch hingesetzt und einige Dutzend changesets reverted. lg, Michi - -- Michael Maier, Student of Telematics @ Graz University of Technology -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJO/a4eAAoJEPDJmZ2oE4mGu5sP/2NDbsLdv9en4uxdSqMnfcVk xvbMIBzsyUlapL3JmYJx2V2OfxO2EBgrm2uLF5FU/sfUlu/+KYsWAJ56o68CkjVy Ia4kIB87S6phV0RXJ8xmEwnM9++n/IO7XJCxag3NDVC7ezRB79F1B49uPrvmDFND F6kLkLZI0XmTLvFo/vyX+vTKG/nL/vABDkiXqRsx4qZkOeD2kNH1EFwdUiRl04BJ BkRwEsZnn6IPXzzbsp794CbwcxNfaOmssEz/lMsj3SXYG/3lNqTGuDaapS2JDteD OT41no0jAKxeoBBIfYvPL75RFRrFZW3JzWlvKcKuThzueefdMPi21JalKOvV5ZVj Y87f+VWhVbRA/o3fr/n3IS3S8tEwstPg+JqX+Uhks7c94LKVwX3VBWfm7ddcuYtA /BqYM2qJouUpsPjySvalzR56eVsSQtd7/Tcno0TlSGLXOWaVi1YKH+aEgJ6McmOr 0eyLf4X7HhNv1J0mhDKCcQORrfVXlfOKjrAo58gwZVzvmCs01lxApbcihacCbl4u IwRYUirAwvEvNjmVrCVgkgN4Rbzmjeu/zBPBaXcRuQyB733cgCc8UqVJPA2RYmRA jX76maiLa+fbFiiAAFfHA7h32M4gMnFjv0v4UeJELb0G4A5LhQLGj8sXpA5m5bOh tS2CXtNvDZjYTdRODj12 =Lmve -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P
On 30.12.2011 13:27, Michael Maier wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 30/12/11 13:18, Felix Hartmann wrote: Da die Diskussion ob Mtbiken erlaubt ist oder nichts, eh Off Topic ist - und zu nichts führt - fragt sich nun eher - was machen mit Herr_P. Nachdem er in PM zumindest zu mir gesagt hat, er würde die Änderungen wieder aufräumen, wenn es ihm ein Admin (damit meint er Frederik Ramm) sagt, sollte dies passieren. Hm - was is denn die Definition von Admin? Oder: Wer hat das sagen, welche Daten rein gehören und welche nicht? - - Die Community. Reverten kann jeder, wie Frederik schon geschrieben hat... Denn es ist eben wie gesagt komplett egal ob legal oder illegal oder graubereich. Hier sind nützliche Informationen von vielen Wegen gelöscht worden, und Herr_P sollte dies wieder richtig stellen, oder gesperrt werden. Nur wird es viel Arbeit sein seinen Vandalismus wieder zu korrigieren. Ich würd vorschlagen, dass du, wenn keine weiteren Einwände kommen, einfach die betroffenen Changesets in ein paar Tagen selbst revertest. Hatte dasselbe Spiel vor ein Wochen in Graz, da hab ich mich auch hingesetzt und einige Dutzend changesets reverted. lg, Michi Da bräuchte ich fast einen ganzen Tag dafür - die Sache ist die, dass Herr_P in PM schrieb, dass er sich an Frederiks Entscheidungen hält - es wäre doch vielen geholfen, wenn er selber die Sachen wieder aufräumt. Reverten ist ziemlich schwer - da das clean nicht mehr durchgeht. Ich würde halt die ganze Rax/Schneebergregion auf Stand 1. Oktober zurückstellen - das wäre das für mich einfachst durchführbare - Nur würde da halt auch andere Edits drunter leiden. Das Problem ist halt - dass Herr_P viele Wege auch einfach gelöscht hat und neuangelegt. ist leider ein totales Schlamassel. ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P
On 30.12.2011 14:29, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hallo, On 12/30/11 13:18, Felix Hartmann wrote: Nachdem er in PM zumindest zu mir gesagt hat, er würde die Änderungen wieder aufräumen, wenn es ihm ein Admin (damit meint er Frederik Ramm) sagt, sollte dies passieren. Ich bin ja gar kein Admin, bloss ein Mitglied der Data Working Group. Das einzige Sonderrecht, das ich bei OSM habe, ist, dass ich einen Benutzer bis zu 96 Stunden sperren und ihm wichtig klingende Verwarnungen aussprechen kann ;) Jip schon klar, aber Herr_P hat dies halt so angenommen. Auf der Mailingliste zu posten scheint er sich nicht zu trauen Denn es ist eben wie gesagt komplett egal ob legal oder illegal oder graubereich. Hier sind nützliche Informationen von vielen Wegen gelöscht worden, Ist das denn jetzt Konsens unter den Lesern hier, dass mtb-Tags an den betr. Klettersteigen richtig und erwuenscht sind? Ich habe den Eindruck, dass Felix und Boris laut ja sagen, waehrend alle anderen eher so mmmhh sagen ;) Ich hab noch nirgendswo gelesen in der Diskussion hier, dass die mtb-Tags unerwünscht sind. Es gab nur viele O.T. Posts bezüglich des legalen Graubereiches. Statt einem grossflaechigen Revert auf einen frueheren Stand koennte ich mir vorstellen, dass ich anhand einer Bounding-Box und eines Stichdatums die vorhandenen mtb:scale-Tags (und ggf. andere) extrahiere und vergleiche, inwiefern diese inzwischen abhanden gekommen sind. Das Ergebnis koennte ich dann Herrn_P zukommen lassen und der koennte die Sachen wieder in Ordnung bringen. Das Problem ist - er hat ja scheinbar nicht nur in der Rax-Schneeberggegend aufgeräumt. Eventuell koennte Herr_P ja an Strecken, bei denen er denkt, dass das Mountainbiken dort nicht zulaessig ist (und das sind ja wohl, wenn ich der Diskussion hier folge, die allermeisten) einfach zusaetzlich zu der mtb:scale ein mtb=no dranschreiben. Dann haette er seiner Meinung (und vermutlich auch der geltenden Rechtslage) Ausdruck verliehen, und die Mountainbiker koennten das einfach ignorieren, so wie sie es jetzt halt auch schon tun. Der mtb:scale-Tag waere ein reiner Wegbeschaffenheits-Tag, und die ganze ist das erlaubt oder nicht-Diskussion koennte sich am mtb=yes/mtb=no/mtb=permissive etc. austoben. Waere das ein Kompromiss, mit dem alle arbeiten koennten? Naja, dass sollte man zumindest im Wiki beschreiben was damit gemeint ist. Ein no wäre aber gemäss der bisherigen Regeln falsch. Da es sich im Prinzip auf explizite/klare Verbote handelt. Auf Straßen wo man wegen begleitendem Fahrradweg mit dem Fahrrad meist nicht fahren darf (gibt ja Ausnahmen, wie Unbefahrbarkeit des Fahrradweges, Anhänger, usw..) kommt ja auch kein bicycle=no drauf. Und es ist auch nicht gesetzlich festgelegt was ein MTB ist. Daher müsste schon eher ein bicycle=no an die Wege. Aber mir ist das ziemlich egal - und den meisten anderen wohl auch - wenn es auch nicht richtig ist. Der mtb:scale Tag ist und war schon immer ein reiner Wegbeschaffenheits-Tag - nirgends im Wiki stand was bezüglich legaler Situation der Befahrbarkeit. Ich hab das im englischen mtb:scale Artikel auch nochmal deutlicher klargestellt. Dabei gehe ich jetzt davon aus, dass die uebrigen Edits von Herrn_P im Grunde genommen nicht falsch sind. Wenn es natuerlich so waere, dass alles, wass Herr_P je geaendert hat, eher schadet als nuetzt, dann koennte man das auch komplett revertieren, aber ich denke mal, derlei Aussagen sind eher im Affekt getroffen worden, oder? Bye Frederik ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P
Hallo Frederik und alle anderen! Heute (30. Dezember) um 14:29 meinte Frederik Ramm: Dabei gehe ich jetzt davon aus, dass die uebrigen Edits von Herrn_P im Grunde genommen nicht falsch sind. Statt einem grossflaechigen Revert... Ich habe die Löschungen in Tirol bereits händisch rückgängig gemacht (es waren nicht viele). Dabei konnte ich - abgesehen von den mtb:* und incline Löschungen - eigentlich nichts Schlimmes an den Edits des Herr_P feststellen. Er hat ein paar Wege zurechtgezupft, Abkürzungen eingetragen, und Höhendaten nachgetragen, also alles sinnvolle Sachen. Ein Revert wäre also kontraproduktiv, ich würde die 2. Variante vorziehen: die vorhandenen mtb:scale-Tags (und ggf. andere) extrahiere und vergleiche, inwiefern diese inzwischen abhanden gekommen sind. Und zur Legalitätsdebatte: Hier finde ich, dass eine Schwierigkeitsskala völlig lösgelöst davon existieren sollte. Flächendeckendes mtb=no halte ich für kontraproduktiv, das sollte nur auf Strecken eingetragen werden, wo tatsächlich ein ausdrückliches Verbot besteht, also eigenes Verkehrszeichen oder zumindest eine Tafel mit Radfahren verboten oder so. Auch mtb=yes/designated halte ich für suboptimal. IMHO ist das Beste, die ausgewiesen Routen als Relationen zu erfassen, wie in Tirol schon weitgehend geschehen. Im Übrigen kann man mtb:scale auch als Wanderer gut gebrauchen: ein hoher Wert lässt auf einen schwierigen Weg, bei mtb:scale:uphill auf einen steilen Weg schließen, und ist vermutlich hilfreicher als der vermaledeite sac_scale, den nur wenige richtig anwenden. Das sollte man Herrn P. wohl sagen, um ihn zu versöhnen. -- MfG, Boris ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P
Ich bin klar dafür dass die Wege die mtb-Tags haben ! Lg hermann -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Dezember 2011 14:29 An: talk-at@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P Hallo, On 12/30/11 13:18, Felix Hartmann wrote: Nachdem er in PM zumindest zu mir gesagt hat, er würde die Änderungen wieder aufräumen, wenn es ihm ein Admin (damit meint er Frederik Ramm) sagt, sollte dies passieren. Ich bin ja gar kein Admin, bloss ein Mitglied der Data Working Group. Das einzige Sonderrecht, das ich bei OSM habe, ist, dass ich einen Benutzer bis zu 96 Stunden sperren und ihm wichtig klingende Verwarnungen aussprechen kann ;) Denn es ist eben wie gesagt komplett egal ob legal oder illegal oder graubereich. Hier sind nützliche Informationen von vielen Wegen gelöscht worden, Ist das denn jetzt Konsens unter den Lesern hier, dass mtb-Tags an den betr. Klettersteigen richtig und erwuenscht sind? Ich habe den Eindruck, dass Felix und Boris laut ja sagen, waehrend alle anderen eher so mmmhh sagen ;) Statt einem grossflaechigen Revert auf einen frueheren Stand koennte ich mir vorstellen, dass ich anhand einer Bounding-Box und eines Stichdatums die vorhandenen mtb:scale-Tags (und ggf. andere) extrahiere und vergleiche, inwiefern diese inzwischen abhanden gekommen sind. Das Ergebnis koennte ich dann Herrn_P zukommen lassen und der koennte die Sachen wieder in Ordnung bringen. Eventuell koennte Herr_P ja an Strecken, bei denen er denkt, dass das Mountainbiken dort nicht zulaessig ist (und das sind ja wohl, wenn ich der Diskussion hier folge, die allermeisten) einfach zusaetzlich zu der mtb:scale ein mtb=no dranschreiben. Dann haette er seiner Meinung (und vermutlich auch der geltenden Rechtslage) Ausdruck verliehen, und die Mountainbiker koennten das einfach ignorieren, so wie sie es jetzt halt auch schon tun. Der mtb:scale-Tag waere ein reiner Wegbeschaffenheits-Tag, und die ganze ist das erlaubt oder nicht-Diskussion koennte sich am mtb=yes/mtb=no/mtb=permissive etc. austoben. Waere das ein Kompromiss, mit dem alle arbeiten koennten? Dabei gehe ich jetzt davon aus, dass die uebrigen Edits von Herrn_P im Grunde genommen nicht falsch sind. Wenn es natuerlich so waere, dass alles, wass Herr_P je geaendert hat, eher schadet als nuetzt, dann koennte man das auch komplett revertieren, aber ich denke mal, derlei Aussagen sind eher im Affekt getroffen worden, oder? Bye Frederik ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Vandalismus bei Herr_P
On 30.12.2011 14:29, Frederik Ramm wrote: Ist das denn jetzt Konsens unter den Lesern hier, dass mtb-Tags an den betr. Klettersteigen richtig und erwuenscht sind? Ich habe den Eindruck, dass Felix und Boris laut ja sagen, waehrend alle anderen eher so mmmhh sagen ;) Der Sinn dieser Tags an Tragestecken erschliesst sich mir nicht ganz, ich bin aber dennoch dafür die Daten zurückzuholen, da sie offenbar für einige Sinn ergeben und nichts verloren ist, wenn die Tags dran sind. Im Vergleich zu foot=yes an highway=path und anderem hochgradig redundantem Unsinn erscheinen sie sogar mehr als brauchbar. Statt einem grossflaechigen Revert auf einen frueheren Stand konnte ich mir vorstellen, dass ich anhand einer Bounding-Box und eines Stichdatums die vorhandenen mtb:scale-Tags (und ggf. andere) extrahiere und vergleiche, inwiefern diese inzwischen abhanden gekommen sind. Das Ergebnis koennte ich dann Herrn_P zukommen lassen und der koennte die Sachen wieder in Ordnung bringen. Eventuell koennte Herr_P ja an Strecken, bei denen er denkt, dass das Mountainbiken dort nicht zulaessig ist (und das sind ja wohl, wenn ich der Diskussion hier folge, die allermeisten) einfach zusaetzlich zu der mtb:scale ein mtb=no dranschreiben. Dann haette er seiner Meinung (und vermutlich auch der geltenden Rechtslage) Ausdruck verliehen, und die Mountainbiker koennten das einfach ignorieren, so wie sie es jetzt halt auch schon tun. Der mtb:scale-Tag waere ein reiner Wegbeschaffenheits-Tag, und die ganze ist das erlaubt oder nicht-Diskussion koennte sich am mtb=yes/mtb=no/mtb=permissive etc. austoben. Waere das ein Kompromiss, mit dem alle arbeiten koennten? Dabei gehe ich jetzt davon aus, dass die uebrigen Edits von Herrn_P im Grunde genommen nicht falsch sind. Wenn es natuerlich so waere, dass alles, wass Herr_P je geaendert hat, eher schadet als nuetzt, dann koennte man das auch komplett revertieren, aber ich denke mal, derlei Aussagen sind eher im Affekt getroffen worden, oder? Klingt nach einer vernünftigen Lösung. Viel Erfolg! LG, Stefan ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-cz] dotaz na funknost Opentrackmap
Chtěl jsem se zeptat, jak to vypadá s aktualizacemi OTM, nezobrazují se například turistické trasy v okolí Potštejna, které jsem v minulosti doplnil. Vzhledem k tomu, ze nikdo nereaguje a ani ja nevim, jak to s OTM momentalne je, tak aspon z jineho konce: mtbmap.cz se cca v tydennim az ctrnactidennim cyklu aktualizuje (ted momentalne to byl ten 14 denni, protoze Geofabrik jako zdroj dat byl velmi pomaly). Oblast, na kterou se ptas, je tady: http://www.mtbmap.cz/?zoom=13lat=50.08056lon=16.30566layers=FBF00 Petr ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] dotaz na funknost Opentrackmap
Ahoj, hlavní vrstva osm.org (Mapnik) se aktualizuje často s dost velkým zpožděním. V principu platí hrubé pravidlo, že nejdříve se aktualizují detailní dlaždice (vyšší přiblížení/zoom), poté pak dlaždice s menším přiblížením (ač se mi to jeví přesně naopak, než by bylo logické). Kozuch 2011/12/29 Zdeněk Pražák zpra...@seznam.cz Chtěl jsem se zeptat, jak to vypadá s aktualizacemi OTM, nezobrazují se například turistické trasy v okolí Potštejna, které jsem v minulosti doplnil. Pražák ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] Export dat z geoportálů
Hm to je hezké, bude to pak také otázka licencí... CUZK je asi v pohodě, ale to bude v INSPIRE asi minorita dat. Já bych se s tím osobně ne*ral - dle mého názoru je k volnému užití většina (dle definice PD-CzechGov) - ale nebavím mne dělat zbytečno práci, až si pak někdo vymyslí, že s tou licencí je problém. Proto by to možná bylo dobré začít řešit s předstihem, až se pak uvolní k expertu tuna dat, bute to stejně potřeba. Kozuch Dne 29. prosince 2011 17:45 Martin Kokeš sh...@typo3-hosting.comnapsal(a): http://www.cuzk.cz/Dokument.**aspx?PRARESKOD=998MENUID=0** AKCE=DOC:10-VYSTUPY_DAT_ISKN_**DLE_INSPIREhttp://www.cuzk.cz/Dokument.aspx?PRARESKOD=998MENUID=0AKCE=DOC:10-VYSTUPY_DAT_ISKN_DLE_INSPIRE a článek na http://www.geobusiness.cz/**2011/09/inspire-na-cuzk-%E2%** 80%93-cesta-od-testovani-k-**realizaci/http://www.geobusiness.cz/2011/09/inspire-na-cuzk-%E2%80%93-cesta-od-testovani-k-realizaci/ MK -Původní zpráva- From: hanoj Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:47 AM To: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic Subject: Re: [Talk-cz] **SPAM** Re: Export dat z geoportálů Dne 29. prosince 2011 1:04 Martin Kokeš sh...@typo3-hosting.com napsal(a): Zatím ne, ale s implementací INSPIRE asi nastanou velké změny. *** kde se v INSPIRE píše, že bude geoportál poskytovat data ve WFS? hanoj __**_ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-czhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz __**_ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-czhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
[Talk-cz] import bodů či tras v kmz/kml
Zdar, jsem tu zatím nový a chtěl bych se optat jak nejlépe dostat do OSM bodíky případně trasy, které jsem si loni vytvořil při přípravě cesty do Polonin. Zaznamenával jsem si to do GoogleEarth a odtud to dostanu v kml nebo kmz. Zatím jsem ale neobjevil funkční converter zdarma do gpx formátu, který asi jediný lze naimportit do OSM Vilém e-mail: petrun...@gmail.com tel: +420 605 445 664 skype: cpt.smetak ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] import bodů či tras v kmz/kml
Dne 30.12.2011 17:57, petrun...@gmail.com napsal(a): Zdar, jsem tu zatím nový a chtěl bych se optat jak nejlépe dostat do OSM bodíky případně trasy, které jsem si loni vytvořil při přípravě cesty do Polonin. Zaznamenával jsem si to do GoogleEarth a odtud to dostanu v kml nebo kmz. Zatím jsem ale neobjevil funkční converter zdarma do gpx formátu, který asi jediný lze naimportit do OSM Vilém e-mail: petrun...@gmail.com mailto:petrun...@gmail.com tel: +420 605 445 664 tel:%2B420%20605%20445%20664 skype: cpt.smetak ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz Použijte GPSbabel - http://www.gpsbabel.org/ ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] import bodů či tras v kmz/kml
Apríla teprve bude a asi to objevování nemělo dostatečnou intenzitu. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=p%C5%99evod+kml+na+gpx hned několik prvních odkazů dovede člověka ke gpsbabelu. MK From: petrun...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 5:57 PM To: Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-cz] import bodů či tras v kmz/kml Zdar, jsem tu zatím nový a chtěl bych se optat jak nejlépe dostat do OSM bodíky případně trasy, které jsem si loni vytvořil při přípravě cesty do Polonin. Zaznamenával jsem si to do GoogleEarth a odtud to dostanu v kml nebo kmz. Zatím jsem ale neobjevil funkční converter zdarma do gpx formátu, který asi jediný lze naimportit do OSM Vilém e-mail: petrun...@gmail.com tel: +420 605 445 664 skype: cpt.smetak ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
[OSM-talk-fr] Tag accès cellulaire
Salut, Est-ce qu'il y a un tag pour les accès (couverture) par téléphone cellulaire ? J'ai pas trouvé. Peut-être pas assez cherché :-( Je vois là : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:amenity%3Dtelephone Termes liés: cabine téléphonique. téléphone cellulaire. téléphone portable. Mais ça ne me renseigne pas sur les tags possibles. Je pense à des sentiers en Guyane, en forêt, où seulement en certains points on a un accès cellulaire, ce qui peut avoir son intérêt en cas de problème. Bref tag, pas tag ? @+ ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag accès cellulaire
Le 30/12/2011 14:30, Stéphane MARTIN a écrit : Salut, Est-ce qu'il y a un tag pour les accès (couverture) par téléphone cellulaire ? J'ai pas trouvé. Peut-être pas assez cherché :-( Je vois là : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:amenity%3Dtelephone Termes liés: cabine téléphonique. téléphone cellulaire. téléphone portable. Mais ça ne me renseigne pas sur les tags possibles. Je pense à des sentiers en Guyane, en forêt, où seulement en certains points on a un accès cellulaire, ce qui peut avoir son intérêt en cas de problème. Bref tag, pas tag ? @+ Bonjour, En fait, il y a, mais il n'y a pas ce que tu cherches... directement : Il existe une série de tags permettant de qualifier une antenne (relai) téléphonique GSM : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Telecommunications_tower Évidemment, il ne s'agit que d'une proposition. Je préfère la proposition indiquée en introduction avec 2 tags : man_made=tower and tower_type=communication qui mes semble plus compatible avec l'existant à laquelle j'aurais ajouté un tag supplémentaire communication=gsm. mes 0.02 € -- Marc Sibert m...@sibert.fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag accès cellulaire
On 30/12/2011 14:30, Stéphane MARTIN wrote: Est-ce qu'il y a un tag pour les accès (couverture) par téléphone cellulaire ? A moins de mesurer le rapport signal avec un équipement de référence, l'utilisateur accrochant ou non le réseau aura une vision subjective dépendant largement de son terminal. C'est encore plus compliqué si on tient compte de la respiration cellulaire qui provoque la variation de la couverture d'une cellule en fonction de sa charge... Il faudrait donc échantillonner des valeurs à différents moments. Enfin, la couverture d'un réseau radio évolue en permanence - son reflet dans Openstreetmap pourrait-il être maintenu ? Bref - je doute de la pertinence de la couverture radio dans OpenStreetMap. Si le point du sentier d'où un réseau est accessible est le sommet d'une colline, tu peux l'étiqueter en tant que natural=peak. Ou peut-être que c'est une clairière - ou un autre élément remarquable qui peut être objectivement relevé sur le terrain. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] [OSM Talk fr] OpenStreetMap au Sénat et à la Commission Européenne
Bonjour @tou[te]s, J'ai été sollicité, sur les recommandations d'autres associations promouvant le Libre (l'APRIL vous êtes là ;), par le Sénat et la Commission Européenne. Je me rendrai donc au Sénat Mercredi 11 janvier 2012 de 9 heures 30 à 13 heures à une table ronde ayant pour thème: « Comment concilier liberté de l'Internet et rémunération des créateurs ? » Sous la présidence de Mme Marie-Christine BLANDIN, Présidente de la commission de la culture, de l’éducation et de la communication J'exposerai bien entendu les travaux de notre belle communauté leurs influences tant sur l'innovation que sur les implications citoyennes. La table ronde est publique et sera diffusée sur Public Sénat. Le lendemain je m'envolerai à Grenade en Espagne à la demande de la Commission Européenne cette fois-ci pour participer à une table ronde ayant pour thème: Bonnes pratiques OpenSource dans les administrations et puissance des communautés OpenSource Cette table ronde à lieu pendant la Conferencia Internacional de Software Libre du 12 au 13 Janvier 2012. http://www.opensourceworldconference.com/en À votre disposition pour toutes remarques suggestions ou critiques. Gaël ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] [OSM talk-fr] Étude comparative OSM vs TomTom en Allemagne
L'Université de Heidelberg en Allemagne a publié hier une étude comparative des données OSM et celles de TomTom en Allemagne. Elle est disponible en anglais et en PDF ici: http://www.mdpi.com/1999-5903/4/1/1/pdf Abstract: http://www.mdpi.com/1999-5903/4/1/1/ Résumé: http://www.gisuser.com/content/view/25458/2/ À diffuser largement ;) Gaël ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] www.openstreetmap.fr 2.0
Le 29/12/2011 20:26, partir-en-vtt a écrit : Le lien du tutoriel JOSM de partir-en-vtt a changé pour devenir http://partir-en-vtt.com/php/articles/voir_article.php?id_article=282 L'hébergement des images a changé également (les liens). De ce fait, je vous invite à changer le contenu sur le site openstreetmap.fr (en copiant l'odt) sous peine de voir disparaître dans les jours à venir les images. *Le PDF et l'odt sont aussi à jour :* http://partir-en-vtt.com/stockage/hebergement/tutoriel_josm_pour_osm.pdf http://partir-en-vtt.com/stockage/hebergement/osm.odt Merci de votre compréhension. - On ne va jamais aussi loin que lorsque l'on ne sait pas où l'on va... www.partir-en-vtt.com -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/www-openstreetmap-fr-2-0-tp7064878p7136548.html Sent from the France mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Bonsoir, J'ai pas tout compris, mais j'ai mis à jour le lien initiale. Le pdf est stocké en local sur osm.fr N'hésite pas à m'éclairer. A+ -- Marc Sibert m...@sibert.fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Fichiers des Accidents sur data.gouv.fr
Bonjour, J'ai trouvé un fichier des accidents de la route sur 5 ans sur le site data.gouv.fr. Mais malheureusement pas de méta-data pour l'accompagner. Il reste bien du travail à Séverin Naudet et à ses équipes. cf : http://www.data.gouv.fr/donnees/view/Informations-sur-la-localisation-des-accidents-corporels--de-la-circulation-sur-5-ann%C3%A9es---France-M%C3%A9-30379821?xtmc=accidents+corporels+circulationxtcr=2. Il s'agit du fichier connu sous le nom de fichier BAAC dont j'ai trouvé de nombreuses références, mais rien sur la projection utilisées. Visiblement, il s'agit de coordonnées métriques (toujours positives) mais J'ai essayé le Lambert 93 (projection officielle en FR) et même le Lambert II étendu (ah ah!). Mais je n'arrive à rien. Est-ce que des experts à l’œil affuté reconnaissent ces coordonnées : org,com,gps,lat,long,dep,catr,voie,v1,v2,pr,pr1,ttue,tbg,tbl,tindm,typenumero,numero,distancemetre,libellevoie,coderivoli,grav 1,284,,4640200,491900,010,3,00933,0,,0015,,0,0,1,0,,0.44 1,304,,4614400,531700,010,3,00052,0,D,,,0,0,1,1,,0.44 1,118,,4597500,581100,010,3,00991,0,,,,0,0,1,1,,0.44 1,194,,4598800,475300,010,3,00904,0,,,0100,0,0,1,0,,0.44 5,053010,4,0,00,0,1,1,1,12,0,TEYSSONNIERE ( RUE DU COMTE DE LA),,0.44 5,053010,5,0,00,0,1,2,1,89,0,MERCIER (AVENUE AMEDEE DU 45 AU FIN),,0.44 5,053010,4,0,00,0,1,2,1,,0,VERNE (AVENUE JEAN MARIE ),,0.44 5,053010,2,0,00,0,1,1,1,0,0,BAD KREUZNACH (AVENUE DE - N° IMPAIRS),,0.44 5,451010,2,0,0,,0029,0392,0,0,1,1,,0.44 5,451010,4,0,00,0,1,0,1,,0,GOUVERNEUR LOUIS VABRE ( ALLEE DU),,0.44 5,053010,3,0,0,,0031,0159,0,0,1,0,,0.44 5,053010,2,0,0,,0033,,0,0,1,2,,0.44 5,053010,3,0,0,,0048,0590,0,0,1,1,,0.44 5,053010,2,0,0,,0032,0639,0,0,1,1,,0.44 5,283010,4,0,00,0,1,1,1,12,0,CLEMENCEAU (RUE G. DU 1/2 AU 17/16),,0.44 1,125,,4624800,546800,010,3,00936,0,,0071,0200,0,0,1,1,,0.44 1,364,,4639600,504000,010,3,1,0,,0022,0950,0,0,1,4,,0.44 1,374,,4608000,531000,010,3,2,0,,0015,0600,0,0,1,0,,0.44 1,203,,0,0,010,3,2,0,,0049,0200,0,0,1,1,,0.44 ... Note : ce serait bien de pouvoir ajouter des commentaires au bas de chaque fiche. On pourrait échanger nos expériences sur la réutilisation de ces fichiers ou les problèmes rencontrés : le Web 2.0 ça vient doucement... -- Marc Sibert m...@sibert.fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] dessiner des limites administratives (réutilisation)
Le 28/12/2011 17:24, Bruno Cortial a écrit : Salut, Attention ce qui suit est écrit par un newbi, qui se creuse toujours pour cerner les possibilités de rendus ! Un PLU cela fait beaucoup de polygones pour un rendu vecteur en ligne. Les exemples de rendu vecteur lourds que j'ai pu voir en ligne combinait tuilage et simplification. En gros pour chaque niveau de zone on découpe les données vecteur en tuile, et en fonction du niveau de zoom on simplifie plus ou moins la géométrie (sinon le navigateur explose). Cela fait beaucoup de traitements préalables sur les données et j'ai rien vu de clé en main. Comme l'a écrit Frédéric, le raster est préférable dans cette situation Si j'avais un fichier PLU au format SHP comme celui-là [1] ou les extractions des limites de commune d'OSM [2], j'essaierai Tilemill [3] pour générer de zolies tuiles raster semi-transparentes. Tilemill peut générer ces tuiles dans un unique fichier au format MBTiles (basé sur SQLite). Ce fichier MBT déposé sur un serveur web qui autorise le php (comme ceux de nos FAI) et un bout de code php pour servir les tuiles à OpenLayers et ça doit marcher! En fait ça marche [4]. A+ BrunoC [1] http://www.data.gouv.fr/donnees/view/Zonages-des-PLU-30383158 [2] http://export.openstreetmap.fr/contours-administratifs/export-communes/ [3] http://mapbox.com/tilemill/ [4] http://projects.bryanmcbride.com/ol_mbtiles/ Excellent le newby ! Je teste immédiatement ! -- FrViPofm ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Fichiers des Accidents sur data.gouv.fr
Bonsoir, Le 30/12/2011 21:10, Marc Sibert a écrit : Bonjour, J'ai trouvé un fichier des accidents de la route sur 5 ans sur le site data.gouv.fr. Mais malheureusement pas de méta-data pour l'accompagner. Il reste bien du travail à Séverin Naudet et à ses équipes. cf : http://www.data.gouv.fr/donnees/view/Informations-sur-la-localisation-des-accidents-corporels--de-la-circulation-sur-5-ann%C3%A9es---France-M%C3%A9-30379821?xtmc=accidents+corporels+circulationxtcr=2. Il s'agit du fichier connu sous le nom de fichier BAAC dont j'ai trouvé de nombreuses références, mais rien sur la projection utilisées. Visiblement, il s'agit de coordonnées métriques (toujours positives) mais J'ai essayé le Lambert 93 (projection officielle en FR) et même le Lambert II étendu (ah ah!). Mais je n'arrive à rien. Est-ce que des experts à l’œil affuté reconnaissent ces coordonnées : org,com,gps,lat,long,dep,catr,voie,v1,v2,pr,pr1,ttue,tbg,tbl,tindm,typenumero,numero,distancemetre,libellevoie,coderivoli,grav 1,284,,4640200,491900,010,3,00933,0,,0015,,0,0,1,0,,0.44 1,304,,4614400,531700,010,3,00052,0,D,,,0,0,1,1,,0.44 (...) 1,364,,4639600,504000,010,3,1,0,,0022,0950,0,0,1,4,,0.44 1,374,,4608000,531000,010,3,2,0,,0015,0600,0,0,1,0,,0.44 1,203,,0,0,010,3,2,0,,0049,0200,0,0,1,1,,0.44 ... Note : ce serait bien de pouvoir ajouter des commentaires au bas de chaque fiche. On pourrait échanger nos expériences sur la réutilisation de ces fichiers ou les problèmes rencontrés : le Web 2.0 ça vient doucement... Tu as un début de réponse avec le nom des champs : lat et long... Car il y a bien des lignes avec des coordonnées négatives (pour les longitudes), par exemple avec les données du dept 35 : 5,238,,4809730,-168884,350,4,0,,,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,0,0,RUE DE NANTES,,0.44 5,238,,4811200,-170237,350,4,0,,,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,0,0,RUE DE SAINT-BRIEUC,,0.44 5,238,,4811150,-170143,350,4,0,,,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,0,0,RUE LOUIS GUILLOUX,,0.44 En divisant les coordonnées par 10, on obtient du bon vieux degré décimal, enfin, pour les lignes avec des coordonnées, ce qui est loin d'être le cas de toutes. Pour les autres, on peut approximer les coordonnées avec l'adresse, une fois retrouvée la ville à l'aide de son code INSEE (champs dept et com). Bref, un vrai jeu de piste, ce fichier :-) vincent ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Noël pour les fourmis cartographes
Le 27/12/2011 à 02:07:21 +1100 Jean-Guilhem Cailton j...@arkemie.com a écrit Objet: [OSM-talk-fr] Noël pour les fourmis cartographes : Avec sa barbe blanche, le Père Noël a déposé dans les souliers des fourmis cartographes un lien vers l'intéressant Manuel de cartographie rapide de Bernard Lortic, avec la collaboration de Dominique Couret, publié par l'I.R.D. (Institut de recherche pour le développement) : http://www.bdvilles.ird.fr/lortic_pages/pages_2009/manual/ J'ai téléchargé (étalé sur plusieurs jours avec ma connexion), mais aucun des PDF n'est lisible. Le fichier iso a chez moi la md5 5e66a00a0f48bfbcd8095ab61df99608 *20111230manuel_de_cartographie_rapide.iso Quelqu'un peut voir s'il a la même md5 ou si ma version est corrompue et nécessite un nouvel téléchargement? -- Cordialement Hendrik Oesterlin - Nouvelle-Calédonie ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-ja] お正月マッピングパーティー開催!
ikiyaです。 当日の持ち物としては GPS、デジカメ、神楽坂周辺のウォーキングペーパー メモ用のペン、パソコン などあればよろしいかと思います。全て必須ではありません。 宜しくお願いします。 --- On Thu, 2011/12/29, ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp wrote: ikiyaです。 東さん、参加ありがとうございます。宜しくお願いします。 ATNDのページも作ってみました。 こちらでも参加表明受け付けます。 http://atnd.org/events/23780 よろしくお願いします。 --- On Thu, 2011/12/29, Shu Higashi s_hig...@mua.biglobe.ne.jp wrote: GPS持って参加します! 偶然ですがw会員でもないのに日本地理学会の巡検に参加させて頂いた時に 歩いた場所で、こんな感じのところです。 http://maps.wizu.jp/wp/?p=1247 東 11/12/29 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp: ikiyaです。 恒例?お正月マッピングパーティーを都内で開催できればと思います。 ・都合もあって場所は、神楽坂周辺を考えています。 ・マッピング手法は問いません。 ・マッピングのターゲットは各自にお任せします。(飲食店POI、バス停、交差点名、道路一方通行、ビル階数etc) ・初心者歓迎、GPSなくても参加OKです。(参加表明の際にGPSの有無お知らせください。) ・1〜2時間外でロギングしてあとは食事、お茶しながらワイワイOSM教室、OSM座談会できればと思います。 ・詳細は人数次第でつめていきたいと思います。 『2012新春!神楽坂界隈OSMマッピング』 2012年1月2日(月) 飯田橋駅西口改札前午前11時集合、午後3時頃解散予定 お正月ご都合よろしい方いらっしゃいましたら 参加表明お願いします。 ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] お正月マッピングパーティー開催!
木下と申します。 お正月マッピングパーティ、参加希望です。 GPSについては、GPSレシーバー付きAdvanced W-ZERO3 を持っていく予定です よろしくお願いいたします。 On 2011/12/29, at 9:56, ikiya wrote: ikiyaです。 恒例?お正月マッピングパーティーを都内で開催できればと思います。 ・都合もあって場所は、神楽坂周辺を考えています。 ・マッピング手法は問いません。 ・マッピングのターゲットは各自にお任せします。(飲食店 POI、バス停、交差点名、道路一方通行、ビル階数etc) ・初心者歓迎、GPSなくても参加OKです。(参加表明 の際にGPSの有無お知らせください。) ・1〜2時間外でロギングしてあとは食事、お茶しな がらワイワイOSM教室、OSM座談会できればと思います。 ・詳細は人数次第でつめていきたいと思います。 『2012新春!神楽坂界隈OSMマッピング』 2012年1月2日(月) 飯田橋駅西口改札前午前11時集合、午後3時頃解散予定 お正月ご都合よろしい方いら っしゃいましたら 参加表明お願いします。 ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja 木下 兼一 e-mail: kin...@tke.att.ne.jp ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] おすすめのgps
森本です。 有難うございます。 参考にさせてもらいます。 2011年12月31日4:11 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp: ikiyaです。 素人レベルの解説ですが お見せしたGPSログ(軌跡)のズレの要因は GPS電波の受信状況が一番影響が大きいと思います。 思うところ以下にあげます。 ハンディGPSでしたら1〜3がまず考えられます。 1.GPS機種の違い ハンディGPS自体の性能差(受信感度、計算処理方法など) 2.GPSの携行位置 GPSを手に持つ、肩に付ける、胸にさげるといった携行位置の違いが 電波の受信に影響を与えます。 3.山や建物などの障害物 山やビルの間では上空のGPS衛星の位置に対して尾根や樹木、 建物が電波受信の障害となります。 4.電波受信するGPS衛星の位置と数 電波を受信する上空のGPS衛星の位置は常に変化しています。 併せて受信しているGPS衛星の数 もその時によって変わります。 この位置と数の変化も影響を与えます。 私のお見せした軌跡のズレは胸にGPS付けていたので 登りと下りで自分の体が電波受信に干渉してあのズレが 生じたと想像しています。 以上、ご参考まで。 --- On *Thu, 2011/12/29, 森本博 hironar...@gmail.com* wrote: 森本です。 誤差は内部のGPS受信器の誤差がそのまま、出るのでしょうか? 色々有り難うございます。 2011年12月29日12:56 ikiya insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jphttp://mc/compose?to=insidekiwi...@yahoo.co.jp : ikiyaです。 参考まで機種は違いますがGPS軌跡の絵です。 こちらはガーミンGPSの60CSX_blueとOregon300_yellow2種類の機種を持って 今年夏、山登りした軌跡です。 http://yfrog.com/odl3h6jhttp://yfrog.com/z/odl3h6j 青、黄色それぞれ2本見えるのはUターンしての 行きと帰りの軌跡で、ズレが生じます。 こちらは先月ガーミンGPSの60CSXで公園マッピングした軌跡です。 http://yfrog.com/z/nunol9j 黄色の×と数字はウェイポイント:歩きながらgpsのボタンで記録した点です。 建物の角、水飲み場、通路の交点、橋、水路、立木など特徴的な箇所で ウェイポイントを記録して地図編集に使います。 以上、ご参考まで。 --- On *Thu, 2011/12/29, 森本博 hironar...@gmail.comhttp://mc/compose?to=hironar...@gmail.com * wrote: 森本です。 有り難うございます。 以下のURLの http://www.joyful-log.jp/SHOP/etrex_vista_hcx.html?prd=google_psbid=5600 eTrex Vista HCxこの機種か、 GPS Walkerか? 初心者なので、eTrex Vista HCxのほうが、よいのかな、と思います。? 2011年12月28日20:45 ribbon o...@ns.ribbon.or.jphttp://mc/compose?to=o...@ns.ribbon.or.jp : On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:47:51PM +0900, Shu Higashi wrote: 最後に、スマートフォンをGPSロガーとして利用するのも 最近ではかなり精度が良いようです。 例えばAndroidに「山旅ロガー」というものがあり 徒歩のログを長時間採るのに向いた作りになっているようです。 https://market.android.com/details?id=com.kamoland.ytlogfeature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImNvbS5rYW1vbGFuZC55dGxvZyJd バッテリーを持たせるためにログ取得間隔が5秒程度の固定となっており、 曲線が多い場合にはうまくそのラインをトレースできない可能性がありますが。 スマートフォンではない、携帯電話でもGPS付きのものがあります。 その1つを使っていたのですが、意外と不便でした。 1) バッテリの持ちがかなり悪くなる。 危うく電池切れになる所でした。たまたまUSB充電器を持っていたので 難を逃れましたが。 2) ログの形式が独特 Webで変換するツールを見つけるまでは、どうしようかとかなり悩みました。 本当はコード書いてGPS Babelに組み込めばいいんですけど。 oota ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.orghttp://mc/compose?to=Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
[Talk-GB] kothic-js demo with LandForm Panorama contours on Freemap
Hi, Over Christmas I've been knocking together a demo which uses kothic-js client side rendering for Freemap, incorporating LandForm PANORAMA contours. You can see it at http://www.free-map.org.uk/0.6/; full details on the blog post at http://www.free-map.org.uk/wordpress/?p=221. It's best viewed in Chrome (see the blog post), though it's been tested on Firefox 8 and Opera 11.6 as well. To summarise: I'm pretty impressed with the lightweight clean simplicity of the components (e.g. Leaflet, geojson, mapcss, most of which I hadn't played with until now) and am generally pleased with the performance of kothic-js itself. One or two issues (not sure if the developers of kothic can answer these): I'm having difficulty with line features at tile boundaries. If any line features have coordinates of x=0 or y=0, or x=granularity or y=granularity, the whole tile rendering messes up, consequently I have to convert such coordinates to 1 or granularity-1 respectively. I use postgis ST_Intersection() with the bounding box to crop the geometries. Polygon features don't seem to have this problem... any idea? Overall though I'm impressed and consequently kothic-js is likely to form the basis of the next revision of Freemap. Nick ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Variable max speed corridors
On Fri, 2011-12-30 at 12:40 +0100, Ben Laenen wrote: I'm using these tags: maxspeed=variable and to specify somewhat to give you a range on what to expect: maxspeed:variable:max=50 maxspeed:variable:min=30 It's mostly being used here for zone 30's near schools where the signs are turned on when children are going to or coming from school, and also for highways with digital speed signals. That sounds good; wonder what the Germans are doing on this given they've had variable speed limits for over 40 years now. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us