[talk-ph] draft FAQ - data sources for OSM contributors in PH :: invitation for inputs

[Erwin Olario]

Hello everyone.

As you may know, there's a line-up of rollbacks [0][1] [2] that's been
determined to have come from incompatible sources. It seems that the main
source of misunderstanding is that certain "free" government geodata and
maps are assumed to be okay to use in OpenStreetMap as a source.

Among these are data from: NAMRIA, Philippine Statistical Authority,
Project NOAH.

None of these agencies has signed a waiver, or has given any permission to
publish their data in OSM under ODbL.

The Department of Education, is the only government agency that permits[3]
the use of their data, specifically their dataset released in 2013 to be
published in OSM. This is the data source of the OSMaPaaralan project[4].

I'd like to invite the community for inputs and comments on the draft pad
for [5] for the FAQ - data sources for OSM contributors in PH

/erwin

[0]: https://github.com/OSMPH/papercut_fix/issues/67
[1]: https://github.com/OSMPH/papercut_fix/issues/69
[2]: https://github.com/OSMPH/papercut_fix/issues/63
[3]:
https://github.com/OSMPH/deped_schools_db/blob/master/data/DepEd_Letter_to_OSM_20132012.pdf
[4]: https://osm.org/wiki/Philippines/OSMaPaaralan
[5]: https://hackmd.io/yDFExxTeSaW6CwSdoEu2YA?view

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Re: [Talk-us] National Forest refs/names

[Paul Johnson]

I'd be inclined to include "Road" on that.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 5:06 PM  wrote:

>
> County Road 14, Boundary County ID. TIGER name is "Camp Nine Road",
> joins with a forest road labelled in the US Forest Roads Overlay as just
> "Camp Nine".
>
> Around 48.7993305N 116.2837172W
>
> Mark.
>
> On 2020/07/30 8:12, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > Could we get some examples of what you mean?
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 5:26 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > That seems sensible. What about the general case (i.e. no continuity
> > with a county road?) - to add "road" or not?
> >
> > On 2020/07/30 7:09, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > I'd generally include the whole name including "Road" in that case.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 5:03 PM  > 
> > > >>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Quick question for clarification.
> > >
> > > The US Forest Roads overlay in JOSM shows the name of forest
> roads
> > > without "Road"; e.g. "Burton Creek B". Should the suffix
> > "road" be added
> > > or is it redundant and a waste of bytes? (Sometimes there may
> be
> > > continuity from, say, a County Road with e.g. "Burton Creek
> Road",
> > > though.)
> > >
> > > Mark.
> > >
> > > On 2020/07/30 2:55, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > > Alright, I think we have a consensus forming.  Someone want
> > to update
> > > > the wiki?
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:30 PM Evin Fairchild
> > > mailto:evindf...@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > 
> >  > > >
> > > > I'm also in favor of this change. It's a route number,
> > so it only
> > > > should be in the ref tag. This will make Forest service
> > roads more
> > > > consistent with other numbered routes. Even though most,
> if
> > > not all,
> > > > Forest service roads don't have a name but just a
> number, I
> > > still am
> > > > in favor of this. I was a bit surprised that the wiki was
> > > saying to
> > > > keep the road number in the name.
> > > >
> > > > In fact, the names that most of these forest service
> > roads have
> > > > don't even match common parlance. Most people refer to
> > them as
> > > > "Forest Service Road XX" whereas the TIGER import called
> > them
> > > > "National Forest Development Road XX," which might be
> > the official
> > > > name, but not the most common name.
> > > >
> > > > -Evin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 6:47 AM Mike Thompson
> > > mailto:miketh...@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > 
> >  > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 1:33 PM Paul Johnson
> > > > mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>
> > >
> > > 
> >  > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Could we get the US Road Tagging page updated to
> > reflect
> > > > common name practice instead of encouraging the
> > > duplication
> > > > of the ref in the name?  Or is that going to
> > spark drama?
> > > >
> > > > I am in favor of the change.  The name tag should be
> > for the
> > > > name only.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Talk-us mailing list
> > > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > 
> > >  > >
> > 
> > >  > >>
> > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Talk-us mailing list
> > > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> > 

Re: [Talk-us] National Forest refs/names

[tj-osmwiki]

County Road 14, Boundary County ID. TIGER name is "Camp Nine Road",
joins with a forest road labelled in the US Forest Roads Overlay as just
"Camp Nine".

Around 48.7993305N 116.2837172W

Mark.

On 2020/07/30 8:12, Paul Johnson wrote:
> Could we get some examples of what you mean?
> 
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 5:26 PM  > wrote:
> 
> That seems sensible. What about the general case (i.e. no continuity
> with a county road?) - to add "road" or not?
> 
> On 2020/07/30 7:09, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > I'd generally include the whole name including "Road" in that case.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 5:03 PM  
> > >> wrote:
> >
> >     Quick question for clarification.
> >
> >     The US Forest Roads overlay in JOSM shows the name of forest roads
> >     without "Road"; e.g. "Burton Creek B". Should the suffix
> "road" be added
> >     or is it redundant and a waste of bytes? (Sometimes there may be
> >     continuity from, say, a County Road with e.g. "Burton Creek Road",
> >     though.)
> >
> >     Mark.
> >
> >     On 2020/07/30 2:55, Paul Johnson wrote:
> >     > Alright, I think we have a consensus forming.  Someone want
> to update
> >     > the wiki?
> >     >
> >     > On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:30 PM Evin Fairchild
> >     mailto:evindf...@gmail.com>
> >
> >     > 
>  >     >
> >     >     I'm also in favor of this change. It's a route number,
> so it only
> >     >     should be in the ref tag. This will make Forest service
> roads more
> >     >     consistent with other numbered routes. Even though most, if
> >     not all,
> >     >     Forest service roads don't have a name but just a number, I
> >     still am
> >     >     in favor of this. I was a bit surprised that the wiki was
> >     saying to
> >     >     keep the road number in the name.
> >     >
> >     >     In fact, the names that most of these forest service
> roads have
> >     >     don't even match common parlance. Most people refer to
> them as
> >     >     "Forest Service Road XX" whereas the TIGER import called
> them
> >     >     "National Forest Development Road XX," which might be
> the official
> >     >     name, but not the most common name.
> >     >
> >     >     -Evin
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >     On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 6:47 AM Mike Thompson
> >     mailto:miketh...@gmail.com>
> >
> >     >     
>  >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >         On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 1:33 PM Paul Johnson
> >     >         mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>
> >
> >     
>  >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >             Could we get the US Road Tagging page updated to
> reflect
> >     >             common name practice instead of encouraging the
> >     duplication
> >     >             of the ref in the name?  Or is that going to
> spark drama?
> >     >
> >     >         I am in favor of the change.  The name tag should be
> for the
> >     >         name only.
> >     >
> >     >         Mike
> >     >
> >     >         ___
> >     >         Talk-us mailing list
> >     >         Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> 
> >      >
> 
> >      >>
> >     >         https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > ___
> >     > Talk-us mailing list
> >     > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> >
> >     > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >     >
> >
> >
> >     ___
> >     Talk-us mailing list
> >     Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le nom ou le titre ...

[osm . sanspourriel]

name est un nom propre désignant l'objet en question.


Je pense que c'est une bonne chose que le titre d'un panneau ne soit
pas affiché dans les rendus généralistes.


+1

> Dans le cas des panneaux, au niveau mondiale on trouve 178  947
panneaux, 110  323 avec name (61%) et seulement 2 163 (soit 1%).
Si les outils ne le supportent pas c'est normal. 1 % dans ce cas ce
n'est pas mal.


Justement, est-ce qu'on souhaite que les utilisateurs trouvent le
panneau qui décrit l'objet ou l'objet en lui-même ?

Parfois l'objet n'est pas cartographié, ni cartographiable.

Si l'objet est cartographié, une recherche va trouver l'objet, le
panneau… peut-être même la rue qui porte son nom.
Et alors ?

L'humain va faire la différence :)


:(

Le panneau en lui-même n'a pas de nom, le nom qu'il arbore est celui
de l'objet qu'il décrit.

ou d'un autre concept : Le cerf élaphe (node/6739548541
)


Donc ce qui est intéressant ici c'est de savoir qu'il y a un panneau.

Et pourquoi pas alors afficher le contenu de la page Wikipédia
 ? ;-)


Je pense que c'est une bonne chose que le titre d'un panneau ne soit
pas affiché dans les rendus généralistes.

Au contraire, je pense que c'est utile quand le panneau fait office
d'amer dans une randonnée perdue dans la cambrousse ;)


Si c'est un amer, ce qui t'intéresse c'est de savoir qu'il y a un amer !

Si tu as besoin de plus de détails, tu vas regarder le détail de l'amer.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Chantiers d'été pour OSM-FR ;)

[Christian Quest]

Le 26/07/2020 à 23:53, Christian Quest a écrit :
Moins de trafic aussi sur les serveurs de l'asso alors c'est le moment 
des chantiers !



rézopole nous a proposé une migration sur un nouveau serveur plus 
puissant qu'ils viennent de mettre en place pour bénéficier d'un 
upgrade des deux VM (plus de RAM) qui servent de cache pour nos 
serveurs de tuiles et de proxy pour la BD Ortho. Tout s'est fait entre 
jeudi et vendredi... avec une coupure minimale.


Ceci permet désormais aussi à cyclosm de bénéficier d'un cache en 
"cœur de réseau". Rézopole gère en effet un nœud d'interconnexion 
entre opérateurs situé à Lyon et positionner un serveur sur un tel 
nœud a 2 avantages: la bande passante ne coûte rien (ce sont les 
opérateurs qui y amènent leurs lignes) et on réduit le chemin par 
lequel doivent passer les données, donc la latence.



osm13, notre serveur de tuiles du rendu humanitaire et des couches 
"layers" s'occupe désormais aussi d'une partie du rendu "FR", les zoom 
13 et 14.


Le but est de répartir la charge pour limiter la saturation d'osm25 
(rendu FR, br, oc, etc).



N'hésitez pas à signaler si vous remarquez des anomalies de 
fonctionnement. On ne sait jamais...




Si vous voulez voir comment le rendu FR se dessine couche après couche, 
voici un GIF animé du zoom 13 centré sur Paris (en FullHD): 
http://osm.cquest.org/rendu/osmfr.gif


Le timing ne correspond pas à celui du dessin, même si cette image 
complète met une quinzaine de secondes à se générer.


Il y a 31 couches et je viens d'en éliminer plus d'une dizaine... vous 
n'avez plus qu'à comparer avec le rendu actuel ;)



--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [Talk-GB] Scheduled Monument

[Nick]

Save the file as an XML file on your computer or wherever then in JOSM: 
Edit>Preferences>Map Display>Tagging presets - then click the + sign and 
add the file.


On 30/07/2020 16:08, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 15:36, Tony OSM  wrote:


I did know of that plug-in so i created my own


http://josm.openstreetmap.de/tagging-preset-1.0; >

[...]



Where/ how do I need to save that, to use it in JOSM?



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Re: [Talk-GB] Scheduled Monument

[Nick]

Hi Tony

I had contacted one of the authors but also did wonder if it was better 
to make my own - thank you so much for sharing your version :-)


Cheers

Nick

On 30/07/2020 15:36, Tony OSM wrote:


Hi

I did know of that plug-in so i created my own


http://josm.openstreetmap.de/tagging-preset-1.0; >
preset_name_label="true">
    
            href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:listed_status; />

    
    
            
            values="Grade I, Grade II*, Grade II" />

            
            
            
            
            
   


to produce tags

HE_ref=123456 (example)
heritage:operator=Historic England
heritage=2
historic=heritage
listed_status=Grade II* (from dropdown list - must extend this to 
include Scheduled Monument etc)

operator=an operator (example)
start_date=2022 (example)
website=a:url (example)

Tony

On 30/07/2020 13:00, Nick wrote:


In relation to this, I wondered if anyone using JOSM has reviewed the 
preset https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Presets/Heritage? For 
example, it seems that for England the use of he:criteria has been 
used to tag listed buildings. Should this preset use a drop down for 
he:criteria with values for the NHLE heritage listings? Taking this 
further, should the preset also have a drop down for Listed Building 
listed_status?


On 23/07/2020 15:12, Nick wrote:


Out of interest, I note that in England the 'List Entry Number' 
appears to be simply numeric, which does not appear to give an 
indication of the type of designation. Perhaps I have not picked 
that up correctly.


N.B. in Scotland, designations have a code + numeric listing e.g. 
HMPA2 (which is a Historic Marine Protected Area). This makes it 
easier to identify by the listing as to the type of heritage 
designation (suggest that code references/descriptors could be 
included on a wiki for ref:hs=*)


On 23/07/2020 11:39, Tony OSM wrote:


Hi

When I started mapping these objects I looked at what other people 
had done and followed suit. I looked at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#United_Kingdom and 
saw a the statement



/National Heritage List for England (Historic England)/

//

/The Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission for England 
(commonly known as //Historic England 
//) has given permission for the 
//National Heritage List for England 
//(NHLE) 
to be used in OSM under the terms of the //Open Government Licence 
v3 
//. 
//[10] 
//No 
specific attribution was requested, so the default: "Contains 
public sector information licensed under the Open Government 
Licence v3.0." applies. The NHLE includes the following heritage 
listings: /


//

  * /Listed buildings (see //Key:listed_status
//)/
  * /Scheduled monuments/
  * /Protected wreck sites/
  * /Registered parks and gardens/
  * /Registered battlefields/
  * /World Heritage Sites/
  * /Buildings with Building Preservation Notices (BPNs)/

Revisiting today I think England is OK to use the data, but what 
about Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland and Isle Of Man ..


On 23/07/2020 10:47, Robert Skedgell wrote:

On 15/07/2020 10:18, Tony OSM wrote:

Whilst mapping some of my local historic places I have found Scheduled
Monuments. They are described in the Historic England list as Heritage
Category: Scheduled Monument and has a List Entry Number.

Building are listed as Heritage Category: Listed Building , Grade: (I,
II*, II) and a list entry number.


I have a related question about using data from the Historic England
list. How can we comply with the attribution requirement in para. 2 of
OS Open Data Licence Agreement used by HE (below)? Some of this may be
covered by OSM's general license and acknowledgements, but would an
additional tag on the object be required?

Ordnance Survey Open Data Licence Agreement

Historic England is able to license the use of a number of its spatial
data sets for use in Geographic Information Systems (GIS) ("Historic
England GIS Data") for commercial and non-commercial use.

1. Subject to the terms below, you are now granted a worldwide,
perpetual, non-exclusive licence to use this Historic England GIS Data.
You may:
- copy, publish, distribute and transmit the Historic England GIS Data
- adapt or modify the Historic England GIS Data
- exploit the Historic England GIS Data commercially for example by
combining it with other information or by including it in your own
product or application

2. You must always use the following attribution statements to
acknowledge the source of the information:

© Historic England [year]. Contains Ordnance Survey data © Crown
copyright and database right [year] The Historic England GIS 

Re: [Talk-it] Riprendo vecchia discussione, spiazzo deposito tronchi.

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Grazie a tutti per le risposte.

Ho aggiunto alle precedenti risposte, area=yes, e  parking=no,
quest'ultimo in funzione di routing e divieto di sosta presente sul
posto [0].

Ho aggiunto anche una strada di servizio con caratteristiche legate al
rivate;forestry.

access=private;forestry

area=yes

man_made=storage

motor_vehicle=private;forestry

operator=Comune di Telve

parking=no

storage=pile_log

surface=compacted




Mentre per la strada di servizio [1]:

access=private;forestry

highway=service

parking=no

service=driveway

surface=compacted



[0] https://osm.org/go/0IFI8xK6V?way=560795169

[1] https://osm.org/go/0IFI8xK6V?way=828411933


-- 
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [Talk-GB] Scheduled Monument

[Andy Mabbett]

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 15:36, Tony OSM  wrote:

> I did know of that plug-in so i created my own
>
> 
> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/tagging-preset-1.0; >
[...]
> 

Where/ how do I need to save that, to use it in JOSM?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] Scheduled Monument

[Tony OSM]

Hi

I did know of that plug-in so i created my own


http://josm.openstreetmap.de/tagging-preset-1.0; >
preset_name_label="true">
    
            href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:listed_status; />

    
    
            
            values="Grade I, Grade II*, Grade II" />

            
            
            
            
            
   


to produce tags

HE_ref=123456 (example)
heritage:operator=Historic England
heritage=2
historic=heritage
listed_status=Grade II* (from dropdown list - must extend this to 
include Scheduled Monument etc)

operator=an operator (example)
start_date=2022 (example)
website=a:url (example)

Tony

On 30/07/2020 13:00, Nick wrote:


In relation to this, I wondered if anyone using JOSM has reviewed the 
preset https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Presets/Heritage? For 
example, it seems that for England the use of he:criteria has been 
used to tag listed buildings. Should this preset use a drop down for 
he:criteria with values for the NHLE heritage listings? Taking this 
further, should the preset also have a drop down for Listed Building 
listed_status?


On 23/07/2020 15:12, Nick wrote:


Out of interest, I note that in England the 'List Entry Number' 
appears to be simply numeric, which does not appear to give an 
indication of the type of designation. Perhaps I have not picked that 
up correctly.


N.B. in Scotland, designations have a code + numeric listing e.g. 
HMPA2 (which is a Historic Marine Protected Area). This makes it 
easier to identify by the listing as to the type of heritage 
designation (suggest that code references/descriptors could be 
included on a wiki for ref:hs=*)


On 23/07/2020 11:39, Tony OSM wrote:


Hi

When I started mapping these objects I looked at what other people 
had done and followed suit. I looked at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#United_Kingdom and 
saw a the statement



/National Heritage List for England (Historic England)/

//

/The Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission for England 
(commonly known as //Historic England 
//) has given permission for the 
//National Heritage List for England 
//(NHLE) 
to be used in OSM under the terms of the //Open Government Licence 
v3 
//. 
//[10] 
//No 
specific attribution was requested, so the default: "Contains public 
sector information licensed under the Open Government Licence v3.0." 
applies. The NHLE includes the following heritage listings: /


//

  * /Listed buildings (see //Key:listed_status
//)/
  * /Scheduled monuments/
  * /Protected wreck sites/
  * /Registered parks and gardens/
  * /Registered battlefields/
  * /World Heritage Sites/
  * /Buildings with Building Preservation Notices (BPNs)/

Revisiting today I think England is OK to use the data, but what 
about Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland and Isle Of Man ..


On 23/07/2020 10:47, Robert Skedgell wrote:

On 15/07/2020 10:18, Tony OSM wrote:

Whilst mapping some of my local historic places I have found Scheduled
Monuments. They are described in the Historic England list as Heritage
Category: Scheduled Monument and has a List Entry Number.

Building are listed as Heritage Category: Listed Building , Grade: (I,
II*, II) and a list entry number.


I have a related question about using data from the Historic England
list. How can we comply with the attribution requirement in para. 2 of
OS Open Data Licence Agreement used by HE (below)? Some of this may be
covered by OSM's general license and acknowledgements, but would an
additional tag on the object be required?

Ordnance Survey Open Data Licence Agreement

Historic England is able to license the use of a number of its spatial
data sets for use in Geographic Information Systems (GIS) ("Historic
England GIS Data") for commercial and non-commercial use.

1. Subject to the terms below, you are now granted a worldwide,
perpetual, non-exclusive licence to use this Historic England GIS Data.
You may:
- copy, publish, distribute and transmit the Historic England GIS Data
- adapt or modify the Historic England GIS Data
- exploit the Historic England GIS Data commercially for example by
combining it with other information or by including it in your own
product or application

2. You must always use the following attribution statements to
acknowledge the source of the information:

© Historic England [year]. Contains Ordnance Survey data © Crown
copyright and database right [year] The Historic England GIS Data
contained in this material was obtained on [date]. The most publicly
available up to date Historic England GIS Data can be obtained from
http://www.HistoricEngland.org.uk.

3. The same requirement 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le nom ou le titre ...

[Arnaud Champollion]

Le 30/07/2020 à 12:08, Yves P. a écrit :
Au contraire, je pense que c'est utile quand le panneau fait office 
d'amer dans une randonnée perdue dans la cambrousse ;)


Sur le panneau de randonnée, par exemple PDIPR je dirais sans hésitation 
que la bague verte indique son nom, ça identifie vraiment le panneau, 
exemple :


https://drop.chapril.org/download/b3bbfd1ea7c05a29/#Yjd-X0t2vozzagTfkdy0EQ

Pour des panneaux qui décrivent un endroit (logiquement déjà nommé sur 
l'objet lui-même) ou ajoutent un point d'explication supplémentaire, 
j'hésite davantage.


Parfois j'ai "envie" de mettre dans name, pour le rendu car ça apporte 
une information pertinente directement visible, mais parfois c'est trop 
redondant par rapport aux autres objets autour.


Et du coup je me demande à quoi sert l'attribut board:title si on 
utilise name.


Arnaud



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Re: [Talk-GB] Scheduled Monument

[Nick]

In relation to this, I wondered if anyone using JOSM has reviewed the 
preset https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Presets/Heritage? For example, 
it seems that for England the use of he:criteria has been used to tag 
listed buildings. Should this preset use a drop down for he:criteria 
with values for the NHLE heritage listings? Taking this further, should 
the preset also have a drop down for Listed Building listed_status?


On 23/07/2020 15:12, Nick wrote:


Out of interest, I note that in England the 'List Entry Number' 
appears to be simply numeric, which does not appear to give an 
indication of the type of designation. Perhaps I have not picked that 
up correctly.


N.B. in Scotland, designations have a code + numeric listing e.g. 
HMPA2 (which is a Historic Marine Protected Area). This makes it 
easier to identify by the listing as to the type of heritage 
designation (suggest that code references/descriptors could be 
included on a wiki for ref:hs=*)


On 23/07/2020 11:39, Tony OSM wrote:


Hi

When I started mapping these objects I looked at what other people 
had done and followed suit. I looked at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#United_Kingdom and 
saw a the statement



/National Heritage List for England (Historic England)/

//

/The Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission for England 
(commonly known as //Historic England 
//) has given permission for the 
//National Heritage List for England 
//(NHLE) 
to be used in OSM under the terms of the //Open Government Licence v3 
//. 
//[10] 
//No 
specific attribution was requested, so the default: "Contains public 
sector information licensed under the Open Government Licence v3.0." 
applies. The NHLE includes the following heritage listings: /


//

  * /Listed buildings (see //Key:listed_status
//)/
  * /Scheduled monuments/
  * /Protected wreck sites/
  * /Registered parks and gardens/
  * /Registered battlefields/
  * /World Heritage Sites/
  * /Buildings with Building Preservation Notices (BPNs)/

Revisiting today I think England is OK to use the data, but what 
about Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland and Isle Of Man ..


On 23/07/2020 10:47, Robert Skedgell wrote:

On 15/07/2020 10:18, Tony OSM wrote:

Whilst mapping some of my local historic places I have found Scheduled
Monuments. They are described in the Historic England list as Heritage
Category: Scheduled Monument and has a List Entry Number.

Building are listed as Heritage Category: Listed Building , Grade: (I,
II*, II) and a list entry number.


I have a related question about using data from the Historic England
list. How can we comply with the attribution requirement in para. 2 of
OS Open Data Licence Agreement used by HE (below)? Some of this may be
covered by OSM's general license and acknowledgements, but would an
additional tag on the object be required?

Ordnance Survey Open Data Licence Agreement

Historic England is able to license the use of a number of its spatial
data sets for use in Geographic Information Systems (GIS) ("Historic
England GIS Data") for commercial and non-commercial use.

1. Subject to the terms below, you are now granted a worldwide,
perpetual, non-exclusive licence to use this Historic England GIS Data.
You may:
- copy, publish, distribute and transmit the Historic England GIS Data
- adapt or modify the Historic England GIS Data
- exploit the Historic England GIS Data commercially for example by
combining it with other information or by including it in your own
product or application

2. You must always use the following attribution statements to
acknowledge the source of the information:

© Historic England [year]. Contains Ordnance Survey data © Crown
copyright and database right [year] The Historic England GIS Data
contained in this material was obtained on [date]. The most publicly
available up to date Historic England GIS Data can be obtained from
http://www.HistoricEngland.org.uk.

3. The same requirement for an attribution statement must be contained
in any sub-licences of the Historic England GIS Data that you grant,
together with a requirement that any further sub-licences do the same.

4. You must ensure that you do not use the Historic England GIS Data in
a way which suggests any official status or that Historic England has
endorsed you or your use of the Historic England GIS Data.

5. The Historic England GIS Data must not be used for purposes which may
lead to damage to archaeological sites, historic buildings and landscapes.

6. You must not mislead others or misrepresent the Historic England GIS
Data or its source.

7. This licence does not give you permission to use any Historic England
trade 

Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Vittorio Bertola via Talk-it]

Il 2020-07-30 10:20 Andrea Musuruane ha scritto:

> Diego, si sta parlando di prendere il nome da wikidata e di inserirlo nel tag 
> name (è un import). Non si sta parlando di inserire il tag wikidata come link 
> al corrispondente elemento in wikidata (non è un import).

Scusate, per curiosità, mi spieghereste qual è il copyright che sarebbe
violato prendendo dei nomi da Wikidata e mettendoli in OSM, considerando
che: 
- i nomi di luogo non sono soggetti a copyright, quindi sicuramente non
si sta violando il copyright sul dato specifico (come potrebbe succedere
se si copiasse ad esempio un testo descrittivo); 
- Wikidata nel complesso è protetto dal diritto sui generis di database,
che vuol dire che non lo si può copiare in parti sostanziali senza il
permesso del proprietario del database, ma 1) dubito che qualche
centinaio di nomi di luogo rappresenti una parte sostanziale del
database e 2) mi risulta che il proprietario di Wikidata non abbia
alcuna intenzione di vietarne l'utilizzo a Openstreetmap 
? 
Ciao, 
  -- 
vb.   Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu   <
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le nom ou le titre ...

[Yves P.]

> Même si c'est une information à considérer, le fait que ce soit + utilisé ne 
> veut pas forcément dire que c'est utilisé correctement.
On est d'accord, mais ça peut indiquer une forme de consensus (ou à défaut une 
interprétation / compréhension du wiki et d'osm en général).
Un truc bête, dans sa liste d'objet JOSM affiche le tag name, pas board:type.

Dans le cas des panneaux, au niveau mondiale on trouve 178  947 panneaux, 110  
323 avec name (61%) et seulement 2 163 (soit 1%).


> Justement, est-ce qu'on souhaite que les utilisateurs trouvent le panneau qui 
> décrit l'objet ou l'objet en lui-même ?
Parfois l'objet n'est pas cartographié, ni cartographiable.

Si l'objet est cartographié, une recherche va trouver l'objet, le panneau… 
peut-être même la rue qui porte son nom.
Et alors ?

L'humain va faire la différence :)

> Le panneau en lui-même n'a pas de nom, le nom qu'il arbore est celui de 
> l'objet qu'il décrit.
ou d'un autre concept : Le cerf élaphe (node/6739548541 
)

> Je pense que c'est une bonne chose que le titre d'un panneau ne soit pas 
> affiché dans les rendus généralistes.
Au contraire, je pense que c'est utile quand le panneau fait office d'amer dans 
une randonnée perdue dans la cambrousse ;)

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le nom ou le titre ...

[Éric Gillet]

Le 30/07/2020 à 09:44, Yves P. a écrit :

J'hésite entre "name" ou "board:title" pour e titre des panneaux.

En France, il y a 6888 panneaux avec name et seulement 59 avec board:title.
Même si c'est une information à considérer, le fait que ce soit + 
utilisé ne veut pas forcément dire que c'est utilisé correctement. Cf 
name=* sur des toilettes ou arbres "banals" par exemple.

Je ne connaissais pas l'autre tag et je doute qu'il soit ni rendu, ni trouvé 
par Nominatim.


Justement, est-ce qu'on souhaite que les utilisateurs trouvent le 
panneau qui décrit l'objet ou l'objet en lui-même ? Le panneau en 
lui-même n'a pas de nom, le nom qu'il arbore est celui de l'objet qu'il 
décrit.


Je pense que c'est une bonne chose que le titre d'un panneau ne soit pas 
affiché dans les rendus généralistes.


En conclusion, je penche plutôt vers board:title (ou autre tag qui n'est 
pas name).



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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Nap Osm]

Ciao Andrea,
in realtà Diego ha ragione. Ciò di cui parlavo è soltanto conoscere i luoghi 
che hanno una traduzione in italiano su Wikidata, non importare la traduzione 
(la mia idea iniziale era prendere i nomi da lì, ma come vedi ho subito 
affermato che non so se è possibile utilizzare i dati di Wikidata - perché quei 
luoghi sono già tradotti lì - e quindi era quasi già scartata, ma non si 
parlava di import, piuttosto di poter utilizzare quei nomi perché sono quelli 
utilizzati anche in Wikipedia, quindi più conosciuti). Preferirei che il tutto 
avvenisse in maniera manuale con MapRoulette o altri metodi, senza automatismi 
né copiature (per questo ho chiesto se fosse possibile prima, ma sembra di no). 
Utilizzerei Wikidata soltanto per avere un dataset dei luoghi non per importare 
i dati da lì (e ora nemmeno per prendervi le traduzioni).
Scusami per la poca chiarezza, mi rendo conto di non aver affatto reso chiara 
la mia idea, fin dal principio 
Spero ora sia un po' più chiara la cosa, scusami ancora!

From: Andrea Musuruane 
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 8:20 AM
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

Diego, si sta parlando di prendere il nome da wikidata e di inserirlo nel tag 
name (è un import). Non si sta parlando di inserire il tag wikidata come link 
al corrispondente elemento in wikidata (non è un import).

Ciao,

Andrea



Il gio 30 lug 2020, 10:15 Cascafico Giovanni 
mailto:cascaf...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:
> "OSM does not, generally, accept imports of data from Wikidata due to the 
> sources often used to contribute to Wikidata."

Sull'import di elementi non presenti in OSM possi capirlo: le
coordinate wikidata spesso sono imprecise (e parecchio). Ma, se si
esclude l'aspetto geografico che abbiamo e curiamo in OSM, credo che
wikidata possa offrire molte info strutturate interessanti, tra le
quali appunto il nome in diverse lingue.

IMHO non stiamo parlando di import, cosiccome il osm-wikidata "linker"
[1] non è uno strumento di import.

[1] https://osm.wikidata.link

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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Andrea Musuruane]

Diego, si sta parlando di prendere il nome da wikidata e di inserirlo nel
tag name (è un import). Non si sta parlando di inserire il tag wikidata
come link al corrispondente elemento in wikidata (non è un import).

Ciao,

Andrea



Il gio 30 lug 2020, 10:15 Cascafico Giovanni  ha
scritto:

> > "OSM does not, generally, accept imports of data from Wikidata due to
> the sources often used to contribute to Wikidata."
>
> Sull'import di elementi non presenti in OSM possi capirlo: le
> coordinate wikidata spesso sono imprecise (e parecchio). Ma, se si
> esclude l'aspetto geografico che abbiamo e curiamo in OSM, credo che
> wikidata possa offrire molte info strutturate interessanti, tra le
> quali appunto il nome in diverse lingue.
>
> IMHO non stiamo parlando di import, cosiccome il osm-wikidata "linker"
> [1] non è uno strumento di import.
>
> [1] https://osm.wikidata.link
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Nap Osm]

Grazie per le risposte, però credo ci sia stato un fraintendimento, io 
intendevo soltanto prendere i posti con traduzioni in italiano, non prendere la 
traduzione vera e propria da Wikidata (che non mi sembra giusto, al di là delle 
licenze, perché è comunque prendere un lavoro di altre persone), quello 
andrebbe fatto manualmente conoscendo il luogo (per posti famosi la traduzione 
è praticamente sicuramente conosciuta da qualche persona), anche in quel caso 
secondo voi è vietato controllare con Wikidata?

Descrivo brevemente quale era la mia idea:

1. Prendo un monumento estero con tag wikidata (quindi famoso) senza name:it
2. Controllo se Wikidata possiede una traduzione in italiano del luogo
3. Chiedo su MapRoulette (o solo rappresentandoli su una mappa uMap come 
suggerito da Cascafico) se la persona conosce il luogo e se questo ha una 
traduzione in italiano conosciuta (es. Eiffel Tower è sicuramente nota come 
Torre Eiffel).

In questo modo è solo più semplice ottenere una lista dei luoghi, ma non c'è 
nulla di già fatto, anzi io scoraggerei in ogni caso il copiare da altre fonti 
appunto perché così si fanno lavori più precisi e poi non ci sarebbe alcuna 
soddisfazione nel farlo.
Gli import per me sono necessari solo quando ci sono tantissimi dati ufficiali 
(vedesi Enel X) sicuramente non variabili, ma in questo caso basta la 
traduzione più comune che sicuramente l'utente che conosce il luogo saprà.
Sempre per questo motivo non credo si possa considerare un vero e proprio 
import.
Cosa ne pensate? Secondo voi è lecito/possibile farlo?

From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 12:12 AM
To: openstreetmap list - italiano 
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero



sent from a phone

> On 29. Jul 2020, at 20:06, Nap Osm  wrote:
>
> (sempre attraverso Wikidata come dicevo), qualcuno saprebbe dirmi se è 
> possibile farlo?


credo che secondo la OpenStreetMap-Foundation non si può fare perché wikidata 
contiene tanti dati protetti, nonostante la licenza cc0 che però non garantisce 
che i dati sono privi di diritti...

Mi potrei sbagliare, ma ricordo così

Ciao Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Cascafico Giovanni]

> "OSM does not, generally, accept imports of data from Wikidata due to the 
> sources often used to contribute to Wikidata."

Sull'import di elementi non presenti in OSM possi capirlo: le
coordinate wikidata spesso sono imprecise (e parecchio). Ma, se si
esclude l'aspetto geografico che abbiamo e curiamo in OSM, credo che
wikidata possa offrire molte info strutturate interessanti, tra le
quali appunto il nome in diverse lingue.

IMHO non stiamo parlando di import, cosiccome il osm-wikidata "linker"
[1] non è uno strumento di import.

[1] https://osm.wikidata.link

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Re: [Talk-it] Traduzione dei luoghi e dei monumenti famosi all'estero

[Andrea Musuruane]

Alcune considerazioni.

Prendere dati da una terza parte e inserirli in OSM è un import e quindi si
devono seguire le apposite guidelines.

Per approfondire invece l'import di dati wikidata in OSM:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikidata#Importing_data_from_Wikidata_into_OSM

"OSM does not, generally, accept imports of data from Wikidata due to the
sources often used to contribute to Wikidata."

Ciao,

Andrea


Il gio 30 lug 2020, 02:13 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 29. Jul 2020, at 20:06, Nap Osm  wrote:
> >
> > (sempre attraverso Wikidata come dicevo), qualcuno saprebbe dirmi se è
> possibile farlo?
>
>
> credo che secondo la OpenStreetMap-Foundation non si può fare perché
> wikidata contiene tanti dati protetti, nonostante la licenza cc0 che però
> non garantisce che i dati sono privi di diritti...
>
> Mi potrei sbagliare, ma ricordo così
>
> Ciao Martin
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Re: [Talk-at] landuse: line oder multipolygon?

[Johann Haag]

> Am 25.07.2020 um 15:05 schrieb Patrick Strasser-Mikhail 
> :
> 
> Hallo!
> 
> Eine Frage zu Stil und Praktikabilität:
> 
> Wenn ein detailliert gemaptes Gebiet ohne Lücken mit landuse oder 
> gleichwertig getagt ist, dann stoßen ja immer exakt Flächen aneinander, 
> entweder als geschlossene Linien oder als Multipolygone.
> 
> Es kommt aber immer wieder einmal vor, dass Ungenauigkeiten auftauchen, wie 
> dass die aneinander stoßenden Linien nicht immer die gleichen Punkte 
> verwenden, und dann bei Änderungen kleine Keile entstehen, wo dann halt nix 
> ist, oder Überlappungen. Auch ein Klassiker ist, dass highway oder ähnliches 
> sich Punkte mit der Linie teilt und dann das eine verschoben wird, aber 
> ungewollt das andere mit verändert wird.
> 
> Mit Multipolygonen hätte man den Vorteil, dass idealerweise immer nur eine 
> Linie eine Grenze darstellt, die von mehreren Multipolygon-Relationen 
> verwendet wird. Nachteilig sehe ich aber, dass der Aufwand für Multipolygone 
> deutlich höher ist, immer noch Fehler passieren können (irrtümliche einen 
> highway als Multipolygon-Grenze gewählt), oder nicht-zusammgehörige Dingen 
> mit einer gemeinsamen Linie "verbunden" werden.
> 
> Gibt es dazu - abgesehen von den technischen Ausführungen im Wiki (die sich 
> darauf beziehen, dass ein Multipolygon halt notwendig ist, wenn es Löcher 
> gibt und die Rolle "inner" benötigt wird) - bekannte Kriterien, wann eine 
> geschlossene Linie und wann ein Multipolygon sinnvoll sind?

In jedem Land gibt es zu Multipolygonen eine andere Vorgangsweise, folgendes 
habe ich als Österreicher herausgefunden.

Es gibt kommerzielle Firmen, die erzeugen aus OSM Daten, für verschiedene 
Anwender kommerzielle optisch angepasste Kartendarstellungen. Diese Firmen 
haben mit zerstückelten Polygonsementen offensichtlich massive technische 
Probleme. Wir in OpenStreetMap sind eine grosse Familie, und sammeln Synergien 
auch bei uns unterstützenden Firmen. Daher empfehle ich für Flächen das 
Zeichnen ausschließlich geschlossener Äußerer Ringe. Multipolygone -mit 
ebenfalls geschlossenen Äußeren Ringen- wende ich nur dann an, wenn es eine zu 
mappende innere Fläche gibt.

Große Multipolygone vermeide ich, als guter Trenner empfiehlt sich wegen der 
bei uns verfügbaren hochwertigen Luftbildern, Wiesen und Waldränder, im 
Besonderen aber Straßenränder. Aus dem Abstand zwischen Straßenmitte und dem 
Wiesenrand kann man gut auf die Befahrbarkeit eines Wegabschnittes durch 
diversen Fahrzeugen schließen. Das ist ein wichtiger Zusatznutzen, und kann 
auch maschinell für das Routing ausgewertet werden, während wir Menschen mit 
dem Schlüssel maxwidth https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxwidth 
 durch unsere visuelle 
Wahrnehmnung nicht viel anfangen können. 

Grüsse Johann


> 
> Und gibt es praktikable Werkzeuge, die es erleichtern, vom einen in das 
> andere System zu kommen, oder auch problematische Flächen zu reparieren?
> In JOSM kenn ich das Trennen von Linien (highway teilt Punkt mit landuse), 
> aber das "mach mehrere geschlossene Linie zu Multipolygonen" hab ich noch 
> nicht gefunden...
> 
> LG Patrick/trapicki
> -- 
> engineers motto: cheap, fast, good - choose any two
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le nom ou le titre ...

[Yves P.]

> J'hésite entre "name" ou "board:title" pour e titre des panneaux.
J'utilise name.

En France, il y a 6888 panneaux avec name et seulement 59 avec board:title.

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PS: Je ne connaissais pas l'autre tag et je doute qu'il soit ni rendu, ni 
trouvé par Nominatim.
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[OSM-talk-fr] Le nom ou le titre ...

[Arnaud Champollion]

Bonjour,

Avant le pic de chaleur j'ai profité de la fraîcheur de l'aube pour 
suivre un parcours urbain thématique.


Je cherche maintenant à ajouter les 13 panneaux sur OpenStreetMap (je 
dispose déjà d'une base utile car la ville a réalisé un Umap exportable 
en geojson).


Exemples :

https://www.dignelesbains-tourisme.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/parcours_de_l_eau-3-900x570.jpg

https://www.dignelesbains.fr/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/01/panneaux_parcours_eau.jpg

J'hésite entre "name" ou "board:title" pourle titre des panneaux.

Quand je consulte d'autres panneaux ailleurs je trouve un peu des deux.

Qu'en pensez-vous ?

Merci


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