Re: [Talk-ko] OSM에서의 중립적 시각에 대해
말씀하시는 내용이 분쟁에 대한 처리 규정이고 한국 전용 규정이 될 수 없습니다.
행정구역이야 한국에 한정되는 내용이겠지만, name 태그에 대해서는 "on the ground"라고 규정되어 있죠.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes
여기에 충돌되는 한국 전용 규정 같은 걸 정할 수 없습니다.
2019년 9월 6일 (금) 오후 1:07, Garam Gim 님이 작성:
>
> 어디서 관점이 다른가 했더니, 이를 분쟁의 관점으로 보고 계셨군요.
>
> 제가 이야기를 꺼냈던 건 분쟁이기 때문이 아니라 정확히는 언젠가는 논의가 필요한 사항이라고 판단하였기 때문입니다.
>
> 가령, 우리는 현재 대한민국의 행정구역에 대한 논의를 하였으며 이에 대한 지침을 이미 가지고 있습니다.
>
> 이와 같이 국제적으로 분쟁지역이라 여겨지는 지명, 예를 들어, 대한민국이 실질적으로 점유하고 있는 독도, 이어도나, 실질적으로 점유하지
> 못하고 있는 구 녹둔도나 백두산 천지 일대 등에 관한 명칭을 어떻게 표기할 것인지의 지침을 정하자는 것입니다.
>
> 즉, 제가 말하고 있는 내용은 기존의 규정을 정하는 논의들과 별반 차이가 없고, 그렇기 때문에 논하고자 하는 것입니다.
>
> 2019년 9월 6일 (금) 오전 2:57, Changwoo Ryu via Talk-ko
> 님이 작성:
>>
>> 문서를 잘 알 수 있게 번역을 할 수는 있겠지요.
>>
>> 분쟁 처리 규정은 한국이나 한국어에 특별하다고 생각하지 않고, 여기서 규정을 정할 권한도 없다고 생각합니다. 그런 걸 정한다고
>> 해도 외국 사용자의 편집에 대해서 적용되기도 힘들고요.
>>
>> 2019년 9월 5일 (목) 오후 9:23, Garam Gim 님이 작성:
>> >
>> > 말씀하신 것처럼 OSM 내에는 이와 관련한 규정들이 있습니다.
>> >
>> > 여기서 제가 말씀드리고 싶은 것은 한국 혹은 한국어 사용 지역에 대한 규정에 준하는 메뉴얼을 하나 만들었으면 한다는 점입니다.
>> >
>> > 물론 이러한 일이 발생할 때마다 다소 번거롭지만 중재를 하거나 할 수 있겠죠.
>> >
>> > 다만, 그러한 대처는 늘 다소 효율이 떨어지기 때문에 이를 말씀드린 것이었습니다.
>> >
>> > 2019년 9월 5일 (목) 오전 12:48, Jaeu Jeong 님이 작성:
>> >>
>> >> 안녕하세요 Garam Gim님
>> >>
>> >> 명칭에 대한 편집 분쟁에 대해서는 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes 문서를 참고하는
>> >> 것이 좋습니다.
>> >>
>> >> 분쟁이 지속되면 Data Working Group에 메일로 연락하여 중재를 신청하는 것을 권장드립니다.
>> >>
>> >> 2019년 9월 4일 (수) 오후 11:09, Garam Gim 님이 작성:
>> >>>
>> >>> 본질적이고 핵심적인 부분인데, 그렇다고 한다면 현재의 해당 사용자의 편집에 대해 어떠한 대응을 하여야 하고, 또 해당 사용자에게
>> >>> 재발 방지를 위해 혹은 추후에 있을지 모르는 비슷한 편집을 하는 사용자들에게 어떻게 대처를 하여야 할까요?
>> >>>
>> >>> 2019년 9월 2일 (월) 오전 3:42, Changwoo Ryu 님이 작성:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 과거에 "한글 (English)" 형식으로 이름을 쓰는 것을 바꾸는 과정에서 관련 얘기가 나왔었는데요. "name"은 표지판,
>> >>>> 간판에 써 있는 것과 같은, 현지에서 사람들이 쓰는 이름입니다. 중립성과는 관계가 없습니다. ("リアンクール岩礁/리앙쿠르
>> >>>> 암초"라고 쓴 게 설령 중립적이라고 쳐도.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2019년 9월 1일 (일) 오후 10:14, Garam Gim 님이 작성:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 안녕하세요.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 포럼에 글을 올리려다 여기로 글을 남깁니다.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73755728
>> >>>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73754200
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 최근 위와 같은 흥미로운 기여를 보고 OSM에서의 중립적 시각이 무엇인가에 대해 생각을 해봤는데요.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 우선, OSM은 위키백과와 같이 중립적 시각이라는 정책을 가지고 있지 않은 것으로 알고 있지만, 근래에 OSM 포럼에서
>> >>>> > 크림반도 건을 포함하여 국가간 분쟁 지역(!)에 대한 논의가 있었던 것으로 알고 있는데요.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 이와 관련하여 중립적이라는 이름 하에 위의 링크들과 같이 한국권 관련 지형지물에서 POV 편집이 강행되는 경우(가령,
>> >>>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73755728 편집과 같이 타언어 명칭을 변경하는
>> >>>> > 것 포함) 어떻게 해야 하는가 대한 메뉴얼이 필요하다고 생각합니다.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 다만, 이는 독도가 대한민국이 실효점유하고 있기 때문에 대한민국령이다라고 주장해야 한다는 것이 아니라, 해당 지형지물들의
>> >>>> > 대표명칭을 어떻게 선정할 것인가에 대한 것인데요.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 과거 중국-필리핀, 중국-일본 분쟁지역의 지명들의 상황을 본 적이 있는데 당시 ‘(언어1)/(언어2)’ 형식으로 적혀
>> >>>> > 있었습니다. 이 경우에는 실질적으로 한 국가의 실효지배가 이루어지지 않은 관계로 그러한 표기가 이루어지는 것으로 여겨지나
>> >>>> > 정확히 관련하여 과거 논의가 있었는지는 확인하지 못하였습니다.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 세계적으로도 여러 분쟁지역이 있고 그에 대한 표제어 표기 방식에 대한 방법이 다양하지 않을까 싶은데 이를 참고하여
>> >>>> > 논의해보았으면 합니다.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 감사합니다.
>> >>>> > ___
>> >>>> > Talk-ko mailing list
>> >>>> > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> >>>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>> >>>> ___
>> >>>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> >>>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> >>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-ko mailing list
>> >> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-ko mailing list
>> > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>> ___
>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>
> ___
> Talk-ko mailing list
> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
___
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Re: [Talk-ko] OSM에서의 중립적 시각에 대해
문서를 잘 알 수 있게 번역을 할 수는 있겠지요.
분쟁 처리 규정은 한국이나 한국어에 특별하다고 생각하지 않고, 여기서 규정을 정할 권한도 없다고 생각합니다. 그런 걸 정한다고
해도 외국 사용자의 편집에 대해서 적용되기도 힘들고요.
2019년 9월 5일 (목) 오후 9:23, Garam Gim 님이 작성:
>
> 말씀하신 것처럼 OSM 내에는 이와 관련한 규정들이 있습니다.
>
> 여기서 제가 말씀드리고 싶은 것은 한국 혹은 한국어 사용 지역에 대한 규정에 준하는 메뉴얼을 하나 만들었으면 한다는 점입니다.
>
> 물론 이러한 일이 발생할 때마다 다소 번거롭지만 중재를 하거나 할 수 있겠죠.
>
> 다만, 그러한 대처는 늘 다소 효율이 떨어지기 때문에 이를 말씀드린 것이었습니다.
>
> 2019년 9월 5일 (목) 오전 12:48, Jaeu Jeong 님이 작성:
>>
>> 안녕하세요 Garam Gim님
>>
>> 명칭에 대한 편집 분쟁에 대해서는 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes 문서를 참고하는 것이
>> 좋습니다.
>>
>> 분쟁이 지속되면 Data Working Group에 메일로 연락하여 중재를 신청하는 것을 권장드립니다.
>>
>> 2019년 9월 4일 (수) 오후 11:09, Garam Gim 님이 작성:
>>>
>>> 본질적이고 핵심적인 부분인데, 그렇다고 한다면 현재의 해당 사용자의 편집에 대해 어떠한 대응을 하여야 하고, 또 해당 사용자에게 재발
>>> 방지를 위해 혹은 추후에 있을지 모르는 비슷한 편집을 하는 사용자들에게 어떻게 대처를 하여야 할까요?
>>>
>>> 2019년 9월 2일 (월) 오전 3:42, Changwoo Ryu 님이 작성:
>>>>
>>>> 과거에 "한글 (English)" 형식으로 이름을 쓰는 것을 바꾸는 과정에서 관련 얘기가 나왔었는데요. "name"은 표지판,
>>>> 간판에 써 있는 것과 같은, 현지에서 사람들이 쓰는 이름입니다. 중립성과는 관계가 없습니다. ("リアンクール岩礁/리앙쿠르
>>>> 암초"라고 쓴 게 설령 중립적이라고 쳐도.)
>>>>
>>>> 2019년 9월 1일 (일) 오후 10:14, Garam Gim 님이 작성:
>>>> >
>>>> > 안녕하세요.
>>>> >
>>>> > 포럼에 글을 올리려다 여기로 글을 남깁니다.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73755728
>>>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73754200
>>>> >
>>>> > 최근 위와 같은 흥미로운 기여를 보고 OSM에서의 중립적 시각이 무엇인가에 대해 생각을 해봤는데요.
>>>> >
>>>> > 우선, OSM은 위키백과와 같이 중립적 시각이라는 정책을 가지고 있지 않은 것으로 알고 있지만, 근래에 OSM 포럼에서 크림반도
>>>> > 건을 포함하여 국가간 분쟁 지역(!)에 대한 논의가 있었던 것으로 알고 있는데요.
>>>> >
>>>> > 이와 관련하여 중립적이라는 이름 하에 위의 링크들과 같이 한국권 관련 지형지물에서 POV 편집이 강행되는 경우(가령,
>>>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73755728 편집과 같이 타언어 명칭을 변경하는 것
>>>> > 포함) 어떻게 해야 하는가 대한 메뉴얼이 필요하다고 생각합니다.
>>>> >
>>>> > 다만, 이는 독도가 대한민국이 실효점유하고 있기 때문에 대한민국령이다라고 주장해야 한다는 것이 아니라, 해당 지형지물들의
>>>> > 대표명칭을 어떻게 선정할 것인가에 대한 것인데요.
>>>> >
>>>> > 과거 중국-필리핀, 중국-일본 분쟁지역의 지명들의 상황을 본 적이 있는데 당시 ‘(언어1)/(언어2)’ 형식으로 적혀 있었습니다.
>>>> > 이 경우에는 실질적으로 한 국가의 실효지배가 이루어지지 않은 관계로 그러한 표기가 이루어지는 것으로 여겨지나 정확히 관련하여 과거
>>>> > 논의가 있었는지는 확인하지 못하였습니다.
>>>> >
>>>> > 세계적으로도 여러 분쟁지역이 있고 그에 대한 표제어 표기 방식에 대한 방법이 다양하지 않을까 싶은데 이를 참고하여 논의해보았으면
>>>> > 합니다.
>>>> >
>>>> > 감사합니다.
>>>> > ___
>>>> > Talk-ko mailing list
>>>> > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>>>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>>> ___
>>>> Talk-ko mailing list
>>>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-ko mailing list
>>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>
> ___
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> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
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Re: [Talk-ko] OSM에서의 중립적 시각에 대해
과거에 "한글 (English)" 형식으로 이름을 쓰는 것을 바꾸는 과정에서 관련 얘기가 나왔었는데요. "name"은 표지판,
간판에 써 있는 것과 같은, 현지에서 사람들이 쓰는 이름입니다. 중립성과는 관계가 없습니다. ("リアンクール岩礁/리앙쿠르
암초"라고 쓴 게 설령 중립적이라고 쳐도.)
2019년 9월 1일 (일) 오후 10:14, Garam Gim 님이 작성:
>
> 안녕하세요.
>
> 포럼에 글을 올리려다 여기로 글을 남깁니다.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73755728
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73754200
>
> 최근 위와 같은 흥미로운 기여를 보고 OSM에서의 중립적 시각이 무엇인가에 대해 생각을 해봤는데요.
>
> 우선, OSM은 위키백과와 같이 중립적 시각이라는 정책을 가지고 있지 않은 것으로 알고 있지만, 근래에 OSM 포럼에서 크림반도 건을
> 포함하여 국가간 분쟁 지역(!)에 대한 논의가 있었던 것으로 알고 있는데요.
>
> 이와 관련하여 중립적이라는 이름 하에 위의 링크들과 같이 한국권 관련 지형지물에서 POV 편집이 강행되는 경우(가령,
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/73755728 편집과 같이 타언어 명칭을 변경하는 것 포함)
> 어떻게 해야 하는가 대한 메뉴얼이 필요하다고 생각합니다.
>
> 다만, 이는 독도가 대한민국이 실효점유하고 있기 때문에 대한민국령이다라고 주장해야 한다는 것이 아니라, 해당 지형지물들의 대표명칭을 어떻게
> 선정할 것인가에 대한 것인데요.
>
> 과거 중국-필리핀, 중국-일본 분쟁지역의 지명들의 상황을 본 적이 있는데 당시 ‘(언어1)/(언어2)’ 형식으로 적혀 있었습니다. 이
> 경우에는 실질적으로 한 국가의 실효지배가 이루어지지 않은 관계로 그러한 표기가 이루어지는 것으로 여겨지나 정확히 관련하여 과거 논의가
> 있었는지는 확인하지 못하였습니다.
>
> 세계적으로도 여러 분쟁지역이 있고 그에 대한 표제어 표기 방식에 대한 방법이 다양하지 않을까 싶은데 이를 참고하여 논의해보았으면 합니다.
>
> 감사합니다.
> ___
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> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
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___
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Re: [Talk-ko] 주간OSM 416을 번역해 보았습니다 / I tried translating weeklyOSM 416
weeklyosm 원본 사이트에서 여러 언어를 지원하는데 연락해서 한국어 추가해 보시는 건 어떨까요. ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Copy of thread reagrding redactions due to copyright violations in North Korea
Yes, after the funding stop, 38 North has moved to the Henry L. Stinson Center. https://www.38north.org/2018/05/editor051718/ 2018-06-05 4:04 GMT+09:00 Max : > on the 38north website it says: > "38 North is a project of The Henry L. Stimson Center." > > > On 04.06.2018 15:51, Changwoo Ryu wrote: >> >> It's very sad. I have seen USKI at Johns Hopkins recently in Korean >> newspapers; USKI has been mostly funded by the ROK government since >> its beginning. (Only recently the funding stopped.) So practically >> that 38north's map data has been built using ROK taxpayers' money. >> >> ___ >> Talk-ko mailing list >> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko >> > > > ___ > Talk-ko mailing list > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Copy of thread reagrding redactions due to copyright violations in North Korea
It's very sad. I have seen USKI at Johns Hopkins recently in Korean newspapers; USKI has been mostly funded by the ROK government since its beginning. (Only recently the funding stopped.) So practically that 38north's map data has been built using ROK taxpayers' money. ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Fixing laguage-mixed name tag in Korean region
The name tag is for local default name (data), not exactly for preferred label form (visibility). Like other people have said, we can't just choose the name tag convention based on rendering preference. Leave the job to the map renderers. 2017-03-05 17:00 GMT+09:00 최규성 : > > References are the posts by Yongmin, Nrimbo, Andrew Errington and Robert > Helvie. > > I'm very interested in this dialog thinking it important. However, it makes > me confused on what the point is. To me, the points are coming as > 1) How to Romanize Korean tags > 2) Labeling convention for place names (or name field). > > If the above is correct, let me suggest my opinion as follows. > > 1. How to Romanize Korean Tags > > Regarding this issue, there is an agreed practice in Korea. Korean > government has led the standardization that should be officially applied to > road signs, national basemaps, etc. The Romanization standard is established > by National Institute of Korean Language (NIKL), which is found as below: >> [In Korean] - >> https://www.korean.go.kr/front/page/pageView.do?page_id=P000148&mn_id=99 >> [In English] - https://www.korean.go.kr/front_eng/roman/roman_01.do > > (Nrimbo's Google Drive document seems to be consistent with this though lack > of source referral.) > > For use with mapping, a practical guideline is prepared by National > Geographic Information Institute (NGII), the national mapping agency of > Korea. It is well documented as linked below. >> Toponymic guidelines for map and other editors for international use: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxngjd18jtbsm1q/Toponymy_Guidelines.pdf?dl=0 > > According to this, we can decide whether we have to choose 'Daehak-ro' or > 'University street'. My answer is 'Daehak-ro'. > > Here is one interesting online map service that exemplarily shows the > Romanized names. It is a Road Name Address Information System service by > Korean government - http://m1.juso.go.kr/eng/standardmap/MapIndex.do . Here, > we can identify how "Daehak-ro" and other street names are labelled. > > But, I have a concern on how we make the awareness sure to every OSM mapper > of this standardized Romanization practice. > > 2. Labeling convention for place names (or name field) > > I strongly support the idea of labelling the name by Korean and English > combination. > > As a result, it is against the idea of Yongmin. If OSM was designed only for > Koreans and by Koreans, it would have been agreeable. But, as many of us > would agree, OSM is designed as a global map for everyone in the world. The > map of Italy region is also lack of something. The Korean who can't > understand Italian (like me) becomes illiterate when I see it, which needs > to be improved. In this regard, I evaluate that OSM labeling style for Korea > region is more advanced than that for Italy. > > But, I have additional request of modifying the current style. My suggestion > is to separate Korean\English by line breaker AND to remove the parentheses > (round brackets). The parenthesis is useless. > > We can find best practices in the global map services like ArcGIS Online Map > or Google Maps. > > The example of ArcGIS Online map is linked here - > https://www.dropbox.com/s/vslwnpyhixw1off/Ex_agol.jpg?dl=0 > > This shows like this --- > 강남역 > Gangnam Station > > In Google Maps, separate languages are labelled in two lines one by one > WITHOUT parentheses. > > I hope this would help to resolve the issue. If I missed any other arguing > points, please advise me. > > Best regards, > > > Kyu-sung Choi > > 2017-03-05 15:14 GMT+09:00 : >> >> Send Talk-ko mailing list submissions to >> talk-ko@openstreetmap.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> talk-ko-requ...@openstreetmap.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> talk-ko-ow...@openstreetmap.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Talk-ko digest..." >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>1. Re: Fixing laguage-mixed name tag in Korean region (Yongmin H.) >>2. Re: Fixing laguage-mixed name tag in Korean region (느림보) >> >> >> -- 전달된 메시지 -- >> From: "Yongmin H." >> To: OpenStreetMap Korea >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 00:10:39 +0900 >> Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Fixing laguage-mixed name tag in Korean region >> I don't agree with this. When I see the Milan, Italy's map, I expect >> things to have name = value in Italian, not Italian(English). (And it is >> done that way[1].) It shouldn't be different just because it is Korea. If >> renderer doesn't show the name correctly in their given set language(say, >> English), that's renderer's fault, not the data's fault. >> >> [1]: https://osm.org/go/0CjFi4mPI- >> >> -- >> Yongmin >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> https://wp.revi.blog >> Please note that this address is
Re: [Talk-ko] Questionable imagery
2017-02-24 23:49 GMT+09:00 Max : > On 2017년 02월 24일 04:25, Changwoo Ryu wrote: >>> >>> Questions: >>> 1. How comes? Where is the source? Is there a Korean blog entry, Naver >>> cafe >>> or other site that shows people how to do it? Can we stop it at the >>> source? >>> Could someone search this on naver/daum? I could not find it in a quick >>> attempt, but there must be a source. >> >> >> I suspected this: >> >> http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220919020518 >> >> This 1-month old blog entry had information on adding VMS as imaginary >> source. So I have informed the author about the situation about two >> weeks ago, and the author has deleted the info. > > > It's still there! on the previous page: > http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220922543377 > At least in the screenshots. I contacted the author again and now it has been removed. ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea
"한국어 (English)" form should be corrected. I thought about some automatic mass editing if possible. 2017-03-01 0:18 GMT+09:00 느림보 : > I’m new comer to OSM community. I joined the community after I noticed my > village was not displayed on Pokémon GO. I tried to join several years ago, > but I hesitated because I couldn’t find good guidance for editing. I didn’t > want to follow non-official source of guidance like blog posts, and gave up > soon. > > At this present, I don’t understand guidance for Korean region clearly. I’m > just writing down my understanding and my rules on my profile page believing > someone will correct my mistake if she/he would see it. > > I think some complexity come from name tags. There are many name tags for > one Korean POI -- name, name:ko, name:en, name:ko_hanja, name:ko_rm. As Max > pointed out, some name tag has English and Korean such as "name=새마을11교 (Sae > Village 11 Gyo)". I understood the usage of “한국어 (English)” came from > technical reason and the rule was changed “한국어” on Oct. 2014 (Source: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention.) > > However, many POIs are remained with “한국어 (English)” without written > guidance (deleted and/or revised). In this reason, the first thing I did was > searching history of naming rules. I don’t know why the community left “한국어 > (English)” style until now, but believe such old-styles are fixed > immediately and automatically. I could write a bot if the community allows. > > I have doubt on name:ko_rm and name:ko_hanja. Many ko_rm field was > transliterated mechanically from its name without concern exceptions defined > in Revised Romanization of Korean. Then how about hand over Romanization of > Korean to renderer if need? By the way, is useful for foreigners? Is there a > renderer displaying ko_rm? As a Korean, I don’t know advantage of managing > ko_rm field manually. Related this field, I saw deleting line on ko_rm and > suggestion of ko_Latn in > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Localization page, but it isn’t > harmonized with other wiki pages. > > As well as, I suggest to modify ‘name:en’ to cover Revised Romanize > non-composite place name. Many POIs’ name:en tags have Romanize Korean only, > but it is not written as guidance. It may be arguable because strictly > Romanized Korean is not English. However such exception will help foreigners > rather than omitting or writing in tag:ko_rm tag. > > p.s. I used 한국어 in this discussion to represent Korean written in Hangeul. > > > 2017-02-24 23:37 GMT+09:00 Max : >> >> Simon, off cause you are right. I was not the one finding out about the >> vworld image usage. I am not patrolling OSM, I don't even know the tools how >> to do it. I don't feel a responsibility for Korea nor do I feel I can speak >> for OSM Korea, because it doesn't really exist. I only heard about it here >> on the list and thought a issue in the ID bugreacker is a good idea. >> >> However I think this situation is a good opportunity and an experience to >> learn from. We can create the structures to make sure this can't happen >> again. Or at least raise the awareness. >> >> I have a few thoughts. Fist let me try an asessment of the situation for >> those from outside: >> >> 1. OSM in Korea is in a quite dire state. There are only very few >> contibutors, the quality of data is low, Most of it still stems from an >> import that is very old. Village POI are usually so off that it's impossible >> to know which village has which name without local knowledge. Junctions are >> imported as lone points, often with steets missing. Bridges too. >> The language is a mess, with "English" and Korean mixed in brakets ((and >> double brackets too)). Half-translations such as "name=새마을11교(Sae Village 11 >> Gyo)"(sic) >> >> 2. Bing Satellite imagery is not available in big parts of the country. >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107 >> Mapbox Satellite often only in B/W, cloudy covered or low-res >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093 >> >> 3. Commercial Map providers like Naver and Daum on the other hand are >> extremely detailed, up to date including even streetview from bicycle tracks >> and such. >> >> 4. The OSM community is very loose to say the least. I don't think anyone >> knows someone else IRL. There is the mailinglist with some months of 0 >> emails. It consists largely of expats and most posts are in English. >> >> --- >> >> In this situation, now we have suddenly new users contributing a lot of >> detail http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332326/ >> But they are not reacting on changeset comments or direct messages, maybe >> because of a language barrier. >> >> Here my thoughts: >> 1. Is it somehow possible to not scare those away, now that their >> contributions will be reverted? Is there a way to say: "Thank you for your >> contribution, unfortunately we had to delete you edits because of legal >> problems from derived maps from unlicensed satellite ima
Re: [Talk-ko] Mailinglist in Korean?
The other talk-XX lists seems to be for regions, not for languages. So
I guess talk-ko was named by a mistake. ;)
But it's OK. It is worth discussing also about North Korean mapping.
2017-02-28 20:57 GMT+09:00 Max :
> Since there is no separate email list for the DPRK, that might be correct to
> use ko or am I missing something?
>
>
>
> On 2017년 02월 28일 12:26, Changwoo Ryu wrote:
>>
>> Actually "ko" is the ISO639 code for Korean language. ("kr" ISO3166
>> code for ROK.)
>>
>>
>> 2017-02-28 19:02 GMT+09:00 Max :
>>>
>>>
>>> Looking through
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/
>>> I noticed that most of them have the interface in their respective
>>> language.
>>> talk-ko is in English though.
>>> (Not talking about the languag of the actual conversations, just the
>>> mailman
>>> interface)
>>>
>>> Could this be a reason for the few korean speaking members?
>>> Should this be changed? (I'd say yes)
>>> Any opinions, thoughts about it?
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-ko mailing list
>>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-ko mailing list
> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
___
Talk-ko mailing list
Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Mailinglist in Korean?
Actually "ko" is the ISO639 code for Korean language. ("kr" ISO3166
code for ROK.)
2017-02-28 19:02 GMT+09:00 Max :
>
> Looking through
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/
> I noticed that most of them have the interface in their respective language.
> talk-ko is in English though.
> (Not talking about the languag of the actual conversations, just the mailman
> interface)
>
> Could this be a reason for the few korean speaking members?
> Should this be changed? (I'd say yes)
> Any opinions, thoughts about it?
>
> ___
> Talk-ko mailing list
> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
___
Talk-ko mailing list
Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Questionable imagery
2017-02-24 12:25 GMT+09:00 Changwoo Ryu : > This 1-month old blog entry had information on adding VMS as imaginary not VMS, VWorld as TMS ;) ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Questionable imagery
2017-02-24 3:01 GMT+09:00 Max : > Recap: > there is a bunch of (new?) members editing with non licensed vworld as a > background, essentially making osm a derived work and jeopardizing its > legality. > > Questions: > 1. How comes? Where is the source? Is there a Korean blog entry, Naver cafe > or other site that shows people how to do it? Can we stop it at the source? > Could someone search this on naver/daum? I could not find it in a quick > attempt, but there must be a source. I suspected this: http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220919020518 This 1-month old blog entry had information on adding VMS as imaginary source. So I have informed the author about the situation about two weeks ago, and the author has deleted the info. > > 2. Is this Pokemon Go related? Are people adding parks, playgrounds and > footpaths prdominantly? Absolutely this is related. Well, people seem to map just their Pokemon Go walking route near their home, so yes I think public places and foodpaths are being added first. > 3. IMO it's also a problem with the ID editor that is making it too easy. > There should be at least a warning message, or maybe even a blacklisting of > vworld for the custom backround. > I filed this issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/3858 Agreed. ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Questionable imagery
Hello, The vworld site is running by the government 국토교통부. And you may know, "export" of government-driven map is a crime in Korea. Any data from this site should be avoided in OSM. 2017-02-08 0:37 GMT+09:00 Robert Helvie : > Hello, > > Does anyone know this user? > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/%ED%99%A9%EC%9E%AC%EC%8A%B9 > > It appears that he is new and has added a lot of items recently. I am happy > to have more local mappers, but I have a big concern. > > From his changesets you can see that he is using custom imagery for mapping > with the iD editor. The concern I have is that it LOOKS LIKE he is pulling > the imagery from this site: http://map.vworld.kr/map/wcmaps.do# (pretty > ingenious, actually). The imagery is much better than Mapbox or Bing, but it > may not legally be usable with OSM. > > Of course my Korean is not good enough to find the supplier for the imagery > on that website, but I expect the license may not actually be compatible for > use with OSM. If he is using that imagery to trace items or locate business, > then he risks adding data to the OSM database that is not compatible and > could put OSM in jeopardy. > > I have just written to him through OSM asking about the imagery and how he > uses it, but of course my message was in English. > > If a Korean speaker could have a look at the website and find out more about > the imagery and whether or not it is OK to use it with OSM (legally), that > would help. And/or have a chat with the user, that might also be good. > > Thanks, > > Robert > > ___ > Talk-ko mailing list > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko > ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] OSM 신문 기사
http://www.clien.net/cs2/bbs/board.php?bo_table=park&wr_id=52694579 OSM 편집했더니 게임에 반영되었다는 경험담이 있네요. 즉시 반영되지는 않는 모양이지만. 2017년 1월 25일 오전 10:22, Changwoo Ryu 님이 작성: > 어제 한국에 오픈한 포켓몬 GO에 사용되서 관심을 끌게 된 것 같지만, 꽤 자세한 기사가 나왔네요. > > https://it.donga.com/25837/ ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
[Talk-ko] OSM 신문 기사
어제 한국에 오픈한 포켓몬 GO에 사용되서 관심을 끌게 된 것 같지만, 꽤 자세한 기사가 나왔네요. https://it.donga.com/25837/ ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] What is 'English' anyways?
2015-10-28 15:55 GMT+09:00 Max : > Very interesting discussion! > > Out of curiosity I just checked how stuff in China and Taiwan are > mapped. The "name=value" just contains the characters obviously, but > some are additionally tagged with "name:zh=value" some use > "name:zh_pinyin" https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/name:zh_pinyin > The (correct) "name:zh_HANS" or "name:zh_HANT" is not in use on OSM > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4892372/language-codes-for-simplified-chinese-and-traditional-chinese#4894634 > > I am not a linguist, so maybe someone could explain why Hanja is not the > same as traditional Chinese? As English is not the same as German? Languages change over time, distance and people. Not just characters are diferent, meaning and usage are often diferent in Korea or in Japan. > How can I tell if a sign is written in Chinese for the tourists, or if > it is the Hanja? Interesting question. Officially ALL Hanja characters in road signs are for Chinese tourists. But they are just written just in Korean Hanja characters (with some exceptions I have seen). So Chinese people can't understand some of them. That's why this Hanja-in-signs policy has always been in debate. Cheers. ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Administration
I support the popular and old reasons why setting reply-to is not good for mailing lists. But in terms of the effort to keep that policy, I doubts if it's worth. Newbies always (and even experienced poeple often) have replied only to the sender wrongly and been confused. And over and over someone should teach them to how to reply-to-all and why they should take care of the recipients. And the situation have never get better for 20 years of my mailing list experience. Setting reply-to is not an ideal solution but a practical one. 2015-10-24 14:28 GMT+09:00 Max : > On 2015년 10월 24일 05:05, Yongmin Hong wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Yes, that's expected that you reply to list, not directly off-list to >> users. Great improvements. > > I disagree. It is non-standard list behavior and is the only list that > does it like that amongst the 20+ I'm subscribed to. Also compared to > the main OSM-talk list. > > I don't really care as I will just continue to press "reply-all" and it > will still work. > > But it might increase spam or messages that were intended private replys > which now go to everyone. > > my 2 ct. ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Naming conventions in Korea
I agree it should be changed. This convention was not because English was dominant in this area, but because the most map editors were non-Korean visitors. Another examples are some of Middle Eastern areas. 2014-10-07 0:52 GMT+09:00 Max : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Looking at the old thread I can see that everyone involved (Changwoo > Ryu, Andrew Errington, Paul Norman) agree that the current convention > should be changed. > > Is there anyone on this list that disagrees with that? > When can safely be said that there is a consensus? > If nobody has objections within a week? > There is so little traffic on this list that it seems it either > reaches not many or there are not many active mappers/community > members in Korea. > > M. > > On 10/06/2014 12:10 AM, Max wrote: >> This has been mentioned in the thread, thanks for adding the >> reference. >> >> 2014-04-27 9:07 GMT+09:00 Andrew Errington > gmail.com>: >>> However, I agree that it's tedious, and we should consider >>> dropping the convention. I have learned that mappers in Japan >>> have recently decided to do the same (although the wiki has not >>> been updated everywhere to show this). >> >> On 10/05/2014 10:52 PM, Lukas Sommer wrote: >> >>> I noticed the non-standard naming convention in Korea and Japan. >> >> >> >>> I understand this is due to historic reasons and inspired by the >>> Japanese convention, the only other place where this is like >>> that. >> >> >>> The Japanese community is currently switching from name=JAPANESE >>> (ENGLISH) to name=JAPANESE + name:ja=JAPANESE + >>> name:en=ENGLISH. (See also >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2014-September/019326.html) >> >>> >> ___ Talk-ko mailing >> list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko >> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1 > > iEYEARECAAYFAlQyus8ACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6ITzQCgh25pLwVzipBAyIYfa4TGPser > pGoAn1Cbx76KsMq7o81fO0YfPg2m5yVp > =tEp9 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Talk-ko mailing list > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Please stop using name=한글 (English) form
2014-04-27 13:18 GMT+09:00 Andrew Errington : > On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 12:30:42 Changwoo Ryu wrote: >> 2014-04-27 9:07 GMT+09:00 Andrew Errington : >> > On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 23:01:58 Changwoo Ryu wrote: >> >> As I stated earlier, the rule of "name" tag is simple and clear. It >> >> should be written as a local name [1]. The long "한글 (English)" form >> >> makes the maps have more text and look more confusing. >> >> >> >> If you are not good enough to read Hangul names, please contribute to >> >> the map internationalization [2], to make the implementations use the >> >> English localized name:en tag. >> >> >> >> >> >> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names >> >> >> >> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_internationalization >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Talk-ko mailing list >> >> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko >> > >> > You must be new here. >> > >> > The reason we have "name=한글 (English)" is historical. In 2008 some >> > tagging guidelines were published in the wiki: >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ko:Map_Features >> > >> > These guidelines included the convention to use "name=한글 (English)". >> > Most people who started mapping Korea have been following these >> > guidelines. I think that originally they were copied from the Japanese >> > mapping guidelines: >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Japan >> > >> > To make things a little easier, I published this page, which clarifies >> > the convention: >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention >> > >> > I disagree that the maps look more confusing (and I am good enough to >> > read Hangul :) ). It's much more useful to me to see Hangul and English >> > together, and apparently the Korean people agree, since you have spent >> > millions of dollars on putting bilingual signs on all of the roads and >> > houses. I documented that here: >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Streetsigns >> >> I have read those wiki pages when I begin edit in 2011, And I have >> followed that convention in most cases. But recently when I begin to >> add names to small roads, I found the map I edited began to look >> confusing with long texts. > > Ah, so what you are saying is that the map looks ugly with long strings of > text on a short road, so you will make the string shorter. Is that right? > That is called 'tagging for the renderer', which is not a good thing to do. > The correct solution is to fix the renderer, so that it will not print the > name if the road is too small. After all, if we zoom in, the road becomes > bigger, and the text will fit. > > And again, the map on osm.org is only an example. If you don't like it you > should make a better map, not edit the data so that it 'looks nice'. I don't edit based on rendering but IMO single local name generally looks better than two names with same information in two languages. Sometimes long names is inevitable for more information. But I don't think Bi-lingual names are preferred for default. >> > However, I agree that it's tedious, and we should consider dropping the >> > convention. I have learned that mappers in Japan have recently decided >> > to do the same (although the wiki has not been updated everywhere to >> > show this). >> > >> > Hopefully, the international mapping project will improve and users >> > around the world will be able to choose a map labelled in Korean, or in >> > English, or both. >> >> I really hope map internationalization be improved to display local names. >> >> I also think the same global policy for "name" is better for >> implementing internationalization. With different policies, map >> implementations need different naming algorithms for different areas. >> Think about names of form "English (local name)" for English world >> tourist map. > > Indeed. Some work has been done on this already: > http://mlm.jochentopf.com/ > > If you want to see Korean only, then enter "ko" into the box. If you want to > see something like the original convention then enter "ko|en". > > But, it only works properly if you ent
Re: [Talk-ko] Please stop using name=한글 (English) form
2014-04-27 9:07 GMT+09:00 Andrew Errington : > On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 23:01:58 Changwoo Ryu wrote: >> As I stated earlier, the rule of "name" tag is simple and clear. It >> should be written as a local name [1]. The long "한글 (English)" form >> makes the maps have more text and look more confusing. >> >> If you are not good enough to read Hangul names, please contribute to >> the map internationalization [2], to make the implementations use the >> English localized name:en tag. >> >> >> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names >> >> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_internationalization >> >> ___ >> Talk-ko mailing list >> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko > > You must be new here. > > The reason we have "name=한글 (English)" is historical. In 2008 some tagging > guidelines were published in the wiki: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ko:Map_Features > > These guidelines included the convention to use "name=한글 (English)". Most > people who started mapping Korea have been following these guidelines. I > think that originally they were copied from the Japanese mapping guidelines: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Japan > > To make things a little easier, I published this page, which clarifies the > convention: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention > > I disagree that the maps look more confusing (and I am good enough to read > Hangul :) ). It's much more useful to me to see Hangul and English together, > and apparently the Korean people agree, since you have spent millions of > dollars on putting bilingual signs on all of the roads and houses. > I documented that here: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Streetsigns I have read those wiki pages when I begin edit in 2011, And I have followed that convention in most cases. But recently when I begin to add names to small roads, I found the map I edited began to look confusing with long texts. > However, I agree that it's tedious, and we should consider dropping the > convention. I have learned that mappers in Japan have recently decided to do > the same (although the wiki has not been updated everywhere to show this). > > Hopefully, the international mapping project will improve and users around the > world will be able to choose a map labelled in Korean, or in English, or both. I really hope map internationalization be improved to display local names. I also think the same global policy for "name" is better for implementing internationalization. With different policies, map implementations need different naming algorithms for different areas. Think about names of form "English (local name)" for English world tourist map. > Personally, I would like to follow the recommendations in reference [1] > [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name > name=Whatever is on the street sign > name:en=English, or Korean romanisation > name:ko=Hangul > > What this really means is name=* should include Korean and English, because > that is what is on the sign. I don't agree on this point. It really means it should be written as the common and official name, it does not mean literally same text, which may have translations and abbreviated forms etc. The English translations in signs are just for convenience. Some Korean street signs even have Japanese and Chinese for Asian tourists. Actually most Asian streetsigns have English translation, but just for tourist convenience. Even some Korea Towns in US have streetsigns with Hangul. I don't think all their "name" tags should be written with multiple languages. Cheers > > Don't forget, mappers around the world are also editing data in Korea, so > these guidelines must be simple and clear for anyone to understand. Also, the > map on the OSM page is only an example. Anyone can make a map and use any > name tag they please. If we were to make a Korean-map and label it with the > name:ko=* tags then it would all be in Korean (this means you have to copy the > Korean information from name=* to name:ko=*). > > Best wishes, > > Andrew > > ___ > Talk-ko mailing list > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
[Talk-ko] Please stop using name=한글 (English) form
As I stated earlier, the rule of "name" tag is simple and clear. It should be written as a local name [1]. The long "한글 (English)" form makes the maps have more text and look more confusing. If you are not good enough to read Hangul names, please contribute to the map internationalization [2], to make the implementations use the English localized name:en tag. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_internationalization ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] CJK fallback fonts - testing needed
How about using NanumGothic for Korean characters? It looks better than Droid Fallback. Android is using it for Korean instead of Droid Fallback since version 4.2. ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Proposal to change current naming convention
Let's get to the point. I mean the street signs are just for convenience of those who stay in Korea but don't speak Korean language. It does not mean the ROK government blessed writing English everywhere. OSM name tag is never such a standard-displayed text. But unfortunately it has actually been used for such purpose in a few areas including Korea. This mail thread is such an example, because someone prefer another format. And someone might prefer another format and so on. Well maybe most mappers in Korea, who are not natives and not good at reading Hangul, won't be happy with Hangul-only "name" tags. But I hope this mess be fixed. It is not consistent with most areas on the world and fixing OSM clients is "right" way than changing data. I think the wiki page should be updated if we want to keep "Korean (English)" convention, because this convention is exceptional. 2013/1/22 Robert Helvie : > I honestly don't think the English on the street signs is just for tourists. > > If it is just for Tourists, why do we still see English on signs that are > nowhere near any place a typical tourist might go? > > I think, just my opinion, the Korean government made a decision to create > the signs for "residents" of Korea, whether those residents speak Korean, > English, Farsi, or Mongolian. Obviously you can't put everything you need on > the sign. The two most useful languages in their decision were likely Korean > and English. > > Your second quote is from the Multilingual names page which handles features > that have > > > different names in different languages > > > If I am correct, this convention was originally developed to deal with > problems along the lines of the Senkaku / Diaoyu islands. > > Here, within Korea, I would suggest that these are not different names. It > is the same name written/spoken in a different language, especially since > the Hangul characters are not translated to their actual meanings. > > That page also covers transliteration (we currently have a name:ko_rm tag > for that).Users in other countries have similar tags, but some have decided, > likely for utility's sake, to include two languages in their name tag. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bilingual_street_names#Hong_Kong > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bilingual_street_names#Japan > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bilingual_street_names#Haiti > > If you feel strongly enough that it is in the best interest of the Korean > mapping community to use only Hangul on the name tag, then write it up in > the Wiki and possibly, eventually, mappers may start to use that tagging > system. > > I still stand by the last part of my message, though: > >> For now, I think it is OK to add the English to the name tag, especially >> since the Korean government has decided to add it also. It certainly makes >> the map more usable for a wider section of the world >> >> In the future, when map-display works better for every individual, it >> won't >> be so hard to strip the English from the name tag. A bot could likely do >> it >> more easily and quickly than you or I. When that time comes, I'll be happy >> to support the process. > > Happy mapping. > > Robert > > "We should give meaning to life, not wait for life to > give us meaning. " > ~ unknown > --- > > ___ > Talk-ko mailing list > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko > ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Proposal to change current naming convention
You are not serious. Those street signs are just for tourist convenience. Actually the wiki says, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name The common default name. (Note: For disputed areas, please use the name as displayed on e.g. street signs for the name tag. Put all alternatives into either localized name tags (e.g. name:tr/name:el) or the variants (e.g. loc_name/old_name/alt_name). Thank you.) So it does not mean to use the exact notation of street signs. Using them are just a rule of decision on disputed areas. And http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bilingual_street_names what should the plain name=* tag be (local name, at least if not disputed), and how to specify the language that the name tag is in. So basically the answer is clear; we should just use the local names. In other areas of the world, name tags were usually written in their local scripts. I see Russia and East Europe areas use their local names in Cyrillic. The most Middle East areas use Arabic. Far east asian areas are exceptional. 2013/1/22 Robert Helvie : > Well the policy doesn't say use a single name, but it does say use the name > on signs. So if we use the name on signs ... > (images for reference) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Streetsigns > we should maybe include the English. > > Sure, the implementation of using a "user specified" name tag when viewing > the map should be the "actual" way the problem is solved, but I expect that > won't happen for quite a while yet. > > For now, I think it is OK to add the English to the name tag, especially > since the Korean government has decided to add it also. It certainly makes > the map more usable for a wider section of the world > > In the future, when map-display works better for every individual, it won't > be so hard to strip the English from the name tag. A bot could likely do it > more easily and quickly than you or I. When that time comes, I'll be happy > to support the process. > > Happy mapping. > ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Proposal to change current naming convention
Why don't we just use local names for "name" tags, as the wiki suggests? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name The policy is very clear. Just use single local names. There is "name:en" tag which is exactly for English names. Why should we duplicate same information over several tags? OK, I know which such "name" tag, a few OSM implementations won't display English names. Just fix those implementations! ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Dok-do edits ...
Another one-time mapper: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/tette_nazo/edits 2012/10/3 Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung : > I've notified DWG of this now. Hopefully, it'll get taken care of. > > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Robert Helvie wrote: >> >> It looks like a new user named "Japanese" (just 1 day old) has edited the >> Dok-do area again. >> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Japanese/edits >> >> I guess talking to people and adding "notes" to the data hasn't worked. >> Maybe someone in the Foundation needs to get involved. >> >> jama rek, >> >> >> >> ___ >> Talk-ko mailing list >> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko >> > > > > -- > Wesley Hwang-Chung > Tool-Box.info > > ___ > Talk-ko mailing list > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko > ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] DAUM as a source
I sent a message explaining those to that mapper. Actually uploading DAUM data to OSM is more dangerous in Korea than you think. All online map services in Korea (even Google map) are based on data mapped by the government. And those government data can't be exported without approval by a law. (Well it's because... north korea and national security.. at least the government think so.) One who violate that law can be put in jail for up to 2 years. 2012/10/19 Paul Norman : > Apologies for the message in English, but if I knew Korean I wouldn't need > to send it. > > The DWG was informed that a Korean mapper > (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/sanha) had used DAUM as a source. > > I'm dealing with redacting the relevant changesets, but the mapper doesn't > speak English and I don't speak Korean so we're communicating through Google > translations. > > I was wondering if someone could contact him and explain > > - Why DAUM or Google can't be used as sources > > and > > - How we're on ODbL now, not CC BY-SA > > Thanks, > > Paul Norman > > For the Data Working Group > > > ___ > Talk-ko mailing list > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Looking for a volunteer to translate a letter to the National Park Service
Well, I advise you NOT to use any data made by S. Korean government. It is illegal to "export" government-made map without approval. The law is 측량 수로조사 및 지적에 관한 법률, 16조. It said to be for national security (while I and many people don't agree). If you can read Korean, see: http://www.law.go.kr/%EB%B2%95%EB%A0%B9/%EC%B8%A1%EB%9F%89%C2%B7%EC%88%98%EB%A1%9C%EC%A1%B0%EC%82%AC%20%EB%B0%8F%20%EC%A7%80%EC%A0%81%EC%97%90%20%EA%B4%80%ED%95%9C%20%EB%B2%95%EB%A5%A0 I know the law is stupid and ambiguous. But it is better not to risk using such data. 2012/8/26 Brian McLaughlin : > I'm looking for a volunteer to translate a letter from English to > Korean to the National Park Service. I'm making a data request for > national park boundaries. I'll keep the letter brief. Thanks for your > help (hopefully). > ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Possible border dispute brewing?
(I'm Korean but I want to avoid political discussion here. ;-) Based on the wiki page, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule If the dispute can not be resolved through discussion, then the simple default rule is that whatever name, designation, etc are used by the people on the ground at that location are used in the non-localized tags. So to me it seems clear that the islands should be mapped as Korean way, if this conflict is not resolved by discussion. ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] name of lake
2011/3/6 Jonas Stein : > Hi, > i tried scanaerial on this lake and its much more precise now. > But i could not findout its name / could not read/write it. > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/102880665 Actually it's a reservoir, "고구저수지 (Gogu reservoir)" ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Street names (was Re: Talk-ko Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3)
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Andrew Errington wrote: > > Korean mappers- can someone explain when the new street naming programme was > started, and when it will be finished? It seems to me there are a lot of > things happening with infrastructure in Korea *everywhere* right now: Actually this new naming scheme was planned from 1996, and the implementation started in 2006. The old address will be dropped in 2012 and only the new one will be used. Well, at least the law [1] says so, but I am almost sure it will be suspended. Google "도로명주소" or "새주소" with your area name, you might find online maps with the new road names, usually provided by local governments. [2] [1] the law called "대한민국 도로명주소 등 표기에 관한 법률" http://ko.wikisource.org/wiki/%EB%8C%80%ED%95%9C%EB%AF%BC%EA%B5%AD_%EB%8F%84%EB%A1%9C%EB%AA%85%EC%A3%BC%EC%86%8C_%EB%93%B1_%ED%91%9C%EA%B8%B0%EC%97%90_%EA%B4%80%ED%95%9C_%EB%B2%95%EB%A5%A0 [2] like this for Seoul, http://address.seoul.go.kr/MAP/ ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
