Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
2013/11/26 Dion Dock dion_d...@comcast.net I've used a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx. I think it records a point every second--or maybe it's every 5--I can't find the setting in the menus at the moment. Saving tracks to the micro SD card will strip off their timestamps and OSM rejects tracks without timestamps. You could still trace them or import them with JOSM, probably. I'm using this same unit. You can set the recording intervall in the track recording page (I am using and promoting 1 second, there are also other settings like per distance or less frequently but this only reduces usefulness because stuff gets simplified and you get less raw data). I do get the timestamps in the recorded track on the micro SD card, how do you copy it? You have to mount the device as a disk and copy it like you would with any other file (requires to set record on card in the device settings from the tracks page, settings). The track recording admittedly is a bit confusing, as you get the good recording on the SD Card, but there is also a simplified (if you save it, the active log is the same like the one on the SD card) trace on the device's internal memory together with the custom way points. Both tracks do have time stamp information if downloaded correctly (as gpx). cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:52:28 -0500 From: Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com Cc: OSM Talk-US List talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA? Message-ID: cadbcdjhj4oplwvvduaamhdmno_nhwhr4jlcfkmigpgwzol_...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I've used two eTrex GPS units (an old one and a relatively new one), a Columbus v900 (the voice recorder that Russ mentioned), and I've used OSMTracker for Android. The v900 is super cool, and cheap, but my experience with it was that it took forever to lock in, and when it did- it was pretty inaccurate- blocks off. And after about two years, it just stopped working. The eTrex units are pretty nice. They're very accurate, they have amazing battery life, and are really rugged. But they have a pretty awful interface. I also have used an old etrex HCx and a new etrex 20. Both are good at the job. Battery life is good (full day with rechargeable batteries at 1 sec sampling). Resolution is good (down to 1 meter with good satellite visibility), especially with the newer model. Position reproducibility is also good (down to 2 meters with the etrex 20). They work for hours under pouring rain. Apart from the well-known user-unfriendlyness of Garmin products, the only fly in the ointment is that the newer unit occasionally produces corrupt files - they are still perfect ASCII files, but the syntax is not correct. Normally such files are easily repairable by hand - not sure if it's a dodgy unit or a general problem. OSM maps in the US are of different levels of quality. When I last mapped on the CA west coast (Big Sur, where else?) I noted loads of non-existing roads still there from the old Tiger import. Volker (Italy) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
On 11/26/13 8:33 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote: I also have used an old etrex HCx and a new etrex 20. Both are good at the job. Battery life is good (full day with rechargeable batteries at 1 sec sampling). Resolution is good (down to 1 meter with good satellite visibility), especially with the newer model. Position reproducibility is also good (down to 2 meters with the etrex 20). They work for hours under pouring rain. the eTrex units seem to be much more accurate than the entry level auto units from Garmin. i'm intrigued though, by Martin's description of the 60CSx (which appears to have been replaced in the Garmin lineup by the 62CS). if the good tracks are on the microSD card then that means you can minimize cycles on the mini-USB port, as you can remove the microSD and use an external reader. this should lead to a longer useful life for the unit (yes, i'm really fed up with having two dead Nuvis because of busted mini USB ports). OSM maps in the US are of different levels of quality. When I last mapped on the CA west coast (Big Sur, where else?) I noted loads of non-existing roads still there from the old Tiger import. big country, not enough mappers in the right places, we're working on it. richard signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
2013/11/26 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net the eTrex units seem to be much more accurate than the entry level auto units from Garmin. i'm intrigued though, by Martin's description of the 60CSx (which appears to have been replaced in the Garmin lineup by the 62CS). I'm not sure if I won't go for the etrex20 as well, both use standard AA-batteries, both have a low resolution screen but well readable in direct sunlight, but the etrex has additional Glonass functionality. Not sure how much quality improvement the Glonass capabilities give, but I'd want them when buying a new GPS receiver ;-) if the good tracks are on the microSD card then that means you can minimize cycles on the mini-USB port, as you can remove the microSD and use an external reader. this should lead to a longer useful life for the unit (yes, i'm really fed up with having two dead Nuvis because of busted mini USB ports). yes, being able to take them out is an advantage. Some recent models also do wireless transmission I think. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
Chiming in really late! but I have used a fair number of different GPS loggers so I thought I'd add my experience. First off, like cameras, the best one is the one you have with you (and can be powered up). For me, that disqualifies the Garmin 60 series - too bulky to always carry around with me. Also I haven't found a really compelling reason to spend the additional $$ on this unit over, say, a Vista or Legend. The dedicated waypoint button is a plus, for sure, but not an $150-200 one. (For those looking to purchase, REI currently has the GPSMAP 62s for $199.) I have always been impressed by the accuracy of the Garmin units, they are consistent performers. I haven't noticed a great deal of difference between the Legend, Vista and GPSMap types in that respect. The ability to load and display OSM maps onto these units sets them apart from the lower end units and no-screen track loggers. I have made numerous hiking route decisions in the field based on which trail was not on the map yet. Powerful. I have also used the touch screen Dakota 20 quite a lot. The accuracy seems to be on par with the other Garmin units, but the touch screen is a pain to use and can be hard to read. I would not recommend it. Lately, for no other reason than to experience a different type of GPS unit, I have resorted to using a Columbus V990. The one really nice and pretty unique feature this device has is motion detection. If you're not moving, the device will suspend logging until it detects you're on the go again. This makes the Columbus a 'set-and-forget' unit - just put it in your backpack and go. I get up to four days of life out of it this way. It does not emit GPX for reasons unbeknownst to me, but JOSM will load its CSV format just fine. The accuracy is not on par with the Garmin units I feel, but I haven't done any side by side testing. When I'm out of options I will use my phone for track logging. This is always a poor choice because the quality of the tracks is noticeably poorer, to the point of being unusable sometimes. Logging on your phone will also eat your battery. On Android I have used OSMTracker mostly, because it offers direct OpenStreetMap upload and waypoint / photo / audio tagging. JOSM will automatically load georeferenced pictures and voice clips recorded, which is cool and helpful. Google's own My Tracks is decent, too, but of course offers no such OSM specific features. I have yet to find a decent track logging app for the iPhone that has some OSM integration. Best Martijn On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:59 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/11/26 Dion Dock dion_d...@comcast.net I've used a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx. I think it records a point every second--or maybe it's every 5--I can't find the setting in the menus at the moment. Saving tracks to the micro SD card will strip off their timestamps and OSM rejects tracks without timestamps. You could still trace them or import them with JOSM, probably. I'm using this same unit. You can set the recording intervall in the track recording page (I am using and promoting 1 second, there are also other settings like per distance or less frequently but this only reduces usefulness because stuff gets simplified and you get less raw data). I do get the timestamps in the recorded track on the micro SD card, how do you copy it? You have to mount the device as a disk and copy it like you would with any other file (requires to set record on card in the device settings from the tracks page, settings). The track recording admittedly is a bit confusing, as you get the good recording on the SD Card, but there is also a simplified (if you save it, the active log is the same like the one on the SD card) trace on the device's internal memory together with the custom way points. Both tracks do have time stamp information if downloaded correctly (as gpx). cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.
You mean that in the relation editor, you would be able to see the same split between north / south and east / west that you currently see for forward/backward? (like here https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwi2gx8tixsuva2/Screen%20Shot%202013-11-26%20at%209.25.08%20AM.jpg ) Yes, that makes sense to me. I can look into how much work that would be. On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 6:14 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: So, nobody has a comment on my idea (from the 22nd) of getting JOSM to show north/south or east/west splits in the relation editor to be displayed the same way as the forward/backward gets shown already? I would try to do some coding to allow that to happen in JOSM, but I don't know how to code in Java. -James ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
On 11/26/13 11:13 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote: When I'm out of options I will use my phone for track logging. This is always a poor choice because the quality of the tracks is noticeably poorer, to the point of being unusable sometimes. i have noticed that the GPS in the retired android HTC (2.5 years old) is quite a bit inferior to the GPS in the Nexus 7 i bought last winter (well before the current version Nexus 7 was released.) i guess you're pretty much at the mercy of the hardware vendor's choices here. the Nexus 7 is really quite good, it comes up quickly and holds lock on the satellites well. Logging on your phone will also eat your battery. there are USB battery supplement thingies out there, probably best to have one or more if you're going to do this away from a car with a lighter socket or USB power port. richard signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Quantified Self Location recording, was: Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 11/26/13 11:13 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote: [...] Logging on your phone will also eat your battery. there are USB battery supplement thingies out there, probably best to have one or more if you're going to do this away from a car with a lighter socket or USB power port. Yes, I have a Mophie around my iPhone that approximately doubles battery life. Pretty much essential if you do want to rely on your phone for extended GPS track logging. Speaking of phones, there is one other thing I wanted to mention, which is what I call 'coarse position logging'. This is not too relevant for OSM but as location enthusiasts you may be interested nonetheless. I have been interested in the 'quantified self' movement for quite some time. Quantified Self is about systematically tracking different aspects of your life and making them quantifiable. Location, your whereabouts, is one of those aspects. Rather than precisely logging location all the time, which requires preparation and thinking ahead, and is not really all that useful if you ask me, I set up Tasker on my Android phone to append the approximate location to a CSV file on my SD card every twenty minutes. This requires minimal resources and gives me a long term view of my whereabouts. On iOS (and now also on Android I think) there is the wonderful Moves app for this, which records your approximate location in the background and also distinguishes between walking, running, biking and other transport. I really like the app, but it is too resource (battery) hungry for day to day use. Here are some screenshots of my Tasker setup on Android as well as the Moves app on iOS: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/my20nr41c1v6qog/X3SzQISE1h Sorry about the tangent! -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.
Yes, that is correct Martijn. Would allow us to make sure relations are intact inside of JOSM if the cardinal directions segments got the same split graphic that forward/backward does in the relation editor. :) I think that was one of the major reasons most of the relations in the USA got the forward/backward roles in the first place since the north/south east/west roles didn't. Also, here again is the link to the ticket on JOSM that added those graphics for the forward/backward roles if it will help you to see how feasible cardinal direction graphics would be. https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/5109 - James From: m...@rtijn.org Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:26:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways. To: rickmastfa...@hotmail.com CC: talk-us@openstreetmap.org You mean that in the relation editor, you would be able to see the same split between north / south and east / west that you currently see for forward/backward? (like here https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwi2gx8tixsuva2/Screen%20Shot%202013-11-26%20at%209.25.08%20AM.jpg ) Yes, that makes sense to me. I can look into how much work that would be. On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 6:14 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: So, nobody has a comment on my idea (from the 22nd) of getting JOSM to show north/south or east/west splits in the relation editor to be displayed the same way as the forward/backward gets shown already? I would try to do some coding to allow that to happen in JOSM, but I don't know how to code in Java. -James ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.
There is some discussion going on over on the wiki page I created on this topic: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Highway_Directions_In_The_United_States Mostly dealing with how to prevent redundant relations where the numbered route is a bidirectional road (i.e. there are no separate OSM ways for the opposite travel directions.) One idea I think is perhaps the most promising is to have the ways forming a bidirectional stretch of the route all point in the same direction and tag the member roles so they correspond to the direction of the ways. I have done this here for US 6 in Utah as an example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/19131911 where I reversed the bidirectional stretches where appropriate so all of them point in the same direction. I then added 'west' as the member role for all these stretches, and added 'east' and 'west' member roles as appropriate for the unidirectional / oneway stretches. Let me know what you think. By the way, doing this for a big relation like this one, really convinced me that we need at least the cardinal support for JOSM that James mentioned. Better, more intuitive relation editing tools in general in the longer run. Martijn On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 6:14 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: So, nobody has a comment on my idea (from the 22nd) of getting JOSM to show north/south or east/west splits in the relation editor to be displayed the same way as the forward/backward gets shown already? I would try to do some coding to allow that to happen in JOSM, but I don't know how to code in Java. -James ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward
Hi all, I'm new to this list so please bear with me. The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward' roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are officially signposted. There was some discussion in the original relation editor enhancement ticket: https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/5109#comment:42 where Petr_Dlouhy dismisses support for these member roles. I want to reopen that discussion and see if there is support for treating north/south and east/west as first class citizens similar to forward/backward in the relation editor (and perhaps in other parts, perhaps the validator and way direction reversing code?). I am crossposting to talk-us because this discussion is going on there at the moment. I would be more than happy to put in some of the work required to implement this support. Thanks, Martijn -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:52 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: if the good tracks are on the microSD card then that means you can minimize cycles on the mini-USB port, as you can remove the microSD and use an external reader. this should lead to a longer useful life for the unit (yes, i'm really fed up with having two dead Nuvis because of busted mini USB ports). The caveat I would give about that is that on my eTrex Legend, the SD card slot started getting flaky long before the USB port had any trouble. I think that's worse than flaky USB, because there's no visible indication (until you switch to the map view and discover that the map didn't load) that the SD card didn't mount at boot and the receiver hasn't been logging tracks to it. Eric ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
On 11/26/13 8:33 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote: I also have used an old etrex HCx and a new etrex 20. Both are good at the job. Battery life is good (full day with rechargeable batteries at 1 sec sampling). Resolution is good (down to 1 meter with good satellite visibility), especially with the newer model. Position reproducibility is also good (down to 2 meters with the etrex 20). They work for hours under pouring rain. OSM maps in the US are of different levels of quality. When I last mapped on the CA west coast (Big Sur, where else?) I noted loads of non-existing roads still there from the old Tiger import. On 11/26/13 8:52 AM, Richard Welty wrote: the eTrex units seem to be much more accurate than the entry level auto units from Garmin. i'm intrigued though, by Martin's description of the 60CSx (which appears to have been replaced in the Garmin lineup by the 62CS). if the good tracks are on the microSD card then that means you can minimize cycles on the mini-USB port, as you can remove the microSD and use an external reader. this should lead to a longer useful life for the unit (yes, i'm really fed up with having two dead Nuvis because of busted mini USB ports). big country, not enough mappers in the right places, we're working on it. I also use a Garmin 60CSx and would recommend the 62CS as a currently available replacement. If you get one, I find that every five seconds is sufficient for hiking-speed track point refresh. Also, be especially careful opening and closing the battery compartment: always twist the thumb-clasp from noon to 3 when opening, and 3 to noon when closing (gingerly, metal on the pins is soft, plastic on the case body is softer). The accuracy of this 12-channel GPS receiver is excellent: with a wide sky view I often get 4 or 3 meters of accuracy, and once got 2 meters. But even better, in very dense tree cover (hiking in Big Sur with lots of tall redwoods so the sky is almost obscured) this unit still gets a usable signal. Weak, yes, less accurate (maybe 15 meters under these conditions), yes. But try that with a lesser unit and you'll simply get no lock on enough satellites to fix your location, let alone generate an accurate track. 15 meters in deep woods is usually good enough to find the trail! The unit is waterproof (though doesn't float), rugged to a modest degree (I once slammed it into a rock face lanyarded against my chest while belaying, with no damage or scratches to its nice sapphire glass), has a compass and altimeter that are actually useful, uses USB rather nicely (be gentle plugging and unplugging a cable to give the jack a long life) and sips batteries: I get 14 to 20 hours from a pair of solar charged rechargeable NiMH AA cells. The ability to swap microSD cards with OSM data provided by DaveH/Lambertus is awesome: this feature alone makes Garmin an almost must-have for OSM users. For the software inclined, you can also use mkgmap and roll your own maps from OSM data. The buttons on my 60CSx have held up for almost seven years of tough use, the interface is straightforward and fairly complete, and Windows and Mac machines are both supported well enough to complete just about any data task. The 60CSx (no longer available new, you might find someone willing to sell one after-market) does suffer from only being able to use one gmapsupp.img (Garmin-format map file) on a microSD card at a time (the 60CSx can't use microSD cards greater than 4 GB capacity), but I understand the 62CS doesn't suffer from this: bring on multiple maps on super-dense card chips! Nice to be able to select one mapset vs. another from the rocker buttons on the unit, with no card swap, USB cable mount, or desktop machine required (except to do the copy/upload to the card in the first place). The Molex metal bracket to mount the microSD card is hard to figure out how to slide up and down with your fingernail, be careful until you get the knack of it, or you'll get a card didn't mount at boot error (and no logging there, if you turned on that feature). Volker, in the last year, I have been busy hiking, mapping and updating national forest and wilderness areas in and around Big Sur (the whole of Monterey County, or MoCo, actually). Not only did another prolific mapper and I complete a careful import (Farm Mapping Project from State of California data), AND I uploaded the United States Forest Service boundaries of Los Padres National Forest, Ventana and Silver Peak Wildernesses, I also cleaned up most of the erroneous TIGER roads (as residential, most are rural dirt tracks) by painstakingly comparing them with Bing imagery. As Monterey County is more than 2/3 the size of the state of Connecticut, nearly 10,000 square kilometers, this was no small task! OK, MoCo is far from done, but it is MUCH better than it was a year ago. Yes, we have a big country, but one road, café, bike route
[Talk-us] Editing OSM
Greetings, All this talk about GPS receivers has me interested. I finally bought a GPSmap 62s. I am happy with it but haven't used it enough yet. I opted out on the topographic map option (I make my own) as well as the camera (better options). I carry my GPS and camera almost everywhere. Having said that, I was comparing my track with an existing track in the Ossipee Mts. I did some editing and came up with a comment. I would like to be able to move a point along a track. The only way I could do that was to break the track outside of the area I wanted to touch up and add new track in the correct area. I am using the OSM editor. Is it possible to move a point along a track? Is it possible to add points to be moved along a track? Thanks! Best regards, Fred ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:30:25PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote: Hi all, I'm new to this list so please bear with me. The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward' roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are officially signposted. I would be very careful in using this. Is this really south e.g. 180° ? Or is it more like 99° ? Or 269° ? Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are only rough directions. Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data Consumers to process and interpret data. No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were pointing north: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward
On Tue, November 26, 2013 1:57 pm, Ian Dees wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:30:25PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote: Hi all, I'm new to this list so please bear with me. The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward' roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are officially signposted. I would be very careful in using this. Is this really south e.g. 180° ? Or is it more like 99° ? Or 269° ? Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are only rough directions. Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data Consumers to process and interpret data. No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were pointing north: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612 Perhaps images like these, found nearly at random on the web, will illustrate typical motorway and highway marking in the US. http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4030/5145458837_d192798a62_o.jpg http://www.interstate80.info/i80_nevada_lettsign.jpg Road directionality is based on the total length of the highway. So if the interstate (motorway) is 3000km long and generally more east/west than north/south it will have east/west markings on it even in areas where it is going north/south or even reversing itself for a short distance and going west/east. Marking the directionality in the relation would make it easier for creating navigation instructions that match what the driver sees on the ground (e.g. turn left on to ramp for I-10 west). Tod ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward
From: Florian Lohoff [mailto:f...@zz.de] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 03:57:40PM -0600, Ian Dees wrote: No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were pointing north: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612 So - North would be straight on, east would be left, west would be right in 99% of the other countries? You'd have to ask someone with those other countries. That particular way is part of the I-94 with role west, and you'd tell someone to get on the I-94 west, even if they're physically driving north. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward
Yes, sorry for not being clearer. As Ian indicates, this is the *signposted cardinal direction* of a numbered road route, which does not change with the actual compass direction of the road. The guiding principle for the United States is that the odd numbered Interstates are north/south, and the even numbered Interstates are east/west. This is independent from the local compass direction. So for example, I-80 is east-west, but runs almost north-south locally (for example here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/203317481) but the sign would still say 'I-80 East' (or West as the case may be). So the relation between the east--west and north--south member roles is equivalent to the relation between forward--backward. Because the cardinal direction is commonly included on the road signs (see example http://www.aaroads.com/west/new_mexico010/bl-010_eb_at_i-010.jpg) this information is useful in the U.S. (and Canadian) context as a drop in replacement for the traditional forward / backward role members. Hope this clarifies somewhat! Martijn On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:30:25PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote: Hi all, I'm new to this list so please bear with me. The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward' roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are officially signposted. I would be very careful in using this. Is this really south e.g. 180° ? Or is it more like 99° ? Or 269° ? Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are only rough directions. Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data Consumers to process and interpret data. No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were pointing north: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612 -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward
Martijn, I want to make sure I understand what you're trying to convey to the group. Are you saying that If a way has a member role value of east then east will mean forward and then west (it's opposite) would mean backward? Example logic: ** If member role = east, node direction is eastbound would mean forward and backward would mean 'west' ** If member role = west, node direction is westbound would mean forward and backward would mean 'east' ** If member role = north, node direction is northbound would mean forward and backward would mean 'south' ** If member role = south, node direction is southbound would mean forward and backward would mean 'north' If the logic I stated above successfully captured with your suggestion, then I would like to expand on it. Why not just make the cardinal direction value-forward/backward value relationship a bit more simpler? I would like to cite Peter Davies' discussion on the Highway Directions in the US wiki page. He stated that milepoints increase as highways that trend northward or eastward--say positive direction. So if one is traveling south or west on a highway, the milepoints are decreasing--say negative direction. With this in mind, couldn't we just say that north/east = forward (forward movement is positive!) and west/south=backward (backward movement is negative!)? If we're digitizing our edges, the suggestion would be to set the node direction of two-way, aka single-carriageway roads, into a positive direction and the member roles values to north or east. Basically what you did for http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2308411, but setting the single-carriageway/two-way roads to 'east' instead of 'west'. Thoughts Martijn? Others?? Best, Kristen --- OSM Profile → http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KristenK -Original Message- From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:47 PM To: Ian Dees Cc: Florian Lohoff; OpenStreetMap-Josm MailConf; OSM US Talk Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward Yes, sorry for not being clearer. As Ian indicates, this is the *signposted cardinal direction* of a numbered road route, which does not change with the actual compass direction of the road. The guiding principle for the United States is that the odd numbered Interstates are north/south, and the even numbered Interstates are east/west. This is independent from the local compass direction. So for example, I-80 is east-west, but runs almost north-south locally (for example here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/203317481) but the sign would still say 'I-80 East' (or West as the case may be). So the relation between the east--west and north--south member roles is equivalent to the relation between forward--backward. Because the cardinal direction is commonly included on the road signs (see example http://www.aaroads.com/west/new_mexico010/bl-010_eb_at_i-010.jpg) this information is useful in the U.S. (and Canadian) context as a drop in replacement for the traditional forward / backward role members. Hope this clarifies somewhat! Martijn On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:30:25PM -0700, Martijn van Exel wrote: Hi all, I'm new to this list so please bear with me. The relation editor currently only parses 'forward' and 'backward' roles when considering the visual representation in the rightmost column. In the United States, north/south and east/west are very common as member roles for road routes, because that is how they are officially signposted. I would be very careful in using this. Is this really south e.g. 180° ? Or is it more like 99° ? Or 269° ? Most streets are not strictly on the 90° raster and signposts are only rough directions. Addings this to OSM might make it much more difficult for Data Consumers to process and interpret data. No, these aren't compass directions. They're the directionality of the road. For example, this way is part of the I-94 interstate going west, but a compass in a car driving on it would tell the viewer they were pointing north: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39372612 -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?
On 11/26/2013 12:07 PM, Richard Welty wrote: there are USB battery supplement thingies out there, probably best to have one or more if you're going to do this away from a car with a lighter socket or USB power port. I find that as long as I keep it in airplane mode and don't overuse the screen backlight, my smart-a**-phone will go for a day and a half recording tracks without a recharge. I use the Backcountry Navigator app, which has full custom-map features, the don't record when stopped functionality, decent track recording features, and good ability to function off the net (for instance, preloading maps for where I'm planning to be). I do my own maps for it, based on Lars Ahlzen's fine TopOSM, but with a number of additional layers of data (government data sets that have not been or cannot be imported, private data sets from various sources). It means that my map has something of a cubist appearance, since occasionally trails are covered two or three times in the data that I have access to - but that's an advantage: if the map takes on that kind of appearance, that's a sign that navigation may be a challenge. On a multiday trip, I can recharge overnight from two lithium AA batteries using the MintyBoost: http://learn.adafruit.com/minty-boost . It's ultralightweight, compact (barely larger than the batteries), and cheap (if you're handy with a soldering iron, the kit of parts is twenty bucks). I'm still getting used to the art of GPS management - I learnt land navigation the old-fashioned way - so I've been only occasionally able to upload trails. (I have a bad habit of turning track recording off inadvertently.) But that's how the Black Dome Range Trail got onto http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/42.2698/-74.1421 . (And several other trails in that part of the world.) -- 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.
On 11/26/2013 01:58 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: There is some discussion going on over on the wiki page I created on this topic: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Highway_Directions_In_The_United_States Mostly dealing with how to prevent redundant relations where the numbered route is a bidirectional road (i.e. there are no separate OSM ways for the opposite travel directions.) One idea I think is perhaps the most promising is to have the ways forming a bidirectional stretch of the route all point in the same direction and tag the member roles so they correspond to the direction of the ways. I have done this here for US 6 in Utah as an example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/19131911 where I reversed the bidirectional stretches where appropriate so all of them point in the same direction. I then added 'west' as the member role for all these stretches, and added 'east' and 'west' member roles as appropriate for the unidirectional / oneway stretches. Let me know what you think. By the way, doing this for a big relation like this one, really convinced me that we need at least the cardinal support for JOSM that James mentioned. Better, more intuitive relation editing tools in general in the longer run. Martijn On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 6:14 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: So, nobody has a comment on my idea (from the 22nd) of getting JOSM to show north/south or east/west splits in the relation editor to be displayed the same way as the forward/backward gets shown already? I would try to do some coding to allow that to happen in JOSM, but I don't know how to code in Java. -James ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Careful with the data model. There is a case near me where I-890 West and NY-7 East are the same road. -- 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
