Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Your opinion about SOTM US

[Paul Mach]

I'm kind of jumping on this discussion a bit late, but there is another
possible solution; to build better tools. On one side it could be easier to
review imports and recent changes. This would make the "cost" of imports
lower. On the other side, map editing could be made less tedious. Guiding
using outside data sources is one approach, similar to slide
.

Basically any tools that makes map editors more productive is good;
existing users do more and new users are more engaged. My 2 cents anyways.

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> Alex,
> Our friends on the other side of the pond like to point out that we have
> many poorly and unmapped areas. I'm sure we all agree that their assessment
> is correct. Solving this problem should be one of our highest priorities.
> Two solutions come to mind, increase the number of imports and growing the
> community of mappers. While I feel that imports have their place, i.e.
> addresses and building outlines, my preferred solution is to increase the
> number of mappers. It would be great to see a session to brainstorm how to
> set target growth rates and then how to achieve them.
>
> My sense is that having the US Chapter Board involved is needed to help
> overcome some obstacles, ie. funding, software tools, communications, etc.
>
> I'd be happy to create a proposal for such a session, but it would need a
> facilitator to help us work with a large group of interested parties. (I
> haven't facilitated a large group in many years.) My other obstacle is I'm
> currently visiting Costa Rica and I'm often in places with limited internet
> access which makes it hard to communicate.
>
> I'd like to get some feedback what others think. Do we have a problem of
> being under and poorly mapped lands? Is it worthwhile to hold a session to
> build a roadmap to fix it? If so how would you do it?
>
> Clifford
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 8:52 PM, Alex Barth  wrote:
>
>> Casting the net a little wider:
>>
>> What do you think are the big topics and challenges for OpenStreetMap as
>> we're about to go into the second decade? What does this mean for State of
>> the Map?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I put together a 3 minute survey about the upcoming State of the Map US
>>> conference. The main thing I would like to know more about is the types of
>>> talks you would be interested in, or even specifically which people or
>>> organizations you would want to see a talk from. You can find the survey
>>> here: http://goo.gl/forms/YZpm2aPk2O
>>>
>>> If you don't want to fill out the survey, you can also send your opinion
>>> my way in an email. In any case, thanks in advance for taking the time.
>>>
>>> Remember, the Call for Papers will be open for another 3 weeks:
>>> http://stateofthemap.us/talk/
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>> --
>>> Martijn van Exel
>>> skype: mvexel
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-03-16 17:33 GMT+01:00 Harald Kliems :

> In continuing mapping destination tag on highways based on Mapillary
> imagery, I've come across the problem of how to tag weigh stations on
> Interstate highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_station). I
> haven't found anything in the wiki, and I don't know enough how they work
> to come up with reasonable tagging.
>


some years ago, scales have been discussed on the mailing list, but it
doesn't seem if this has lead to a lot of tagging:
http://taginfo.osm.org/tags/man_made=weighing_scale#overview
There are also 12 amenity=truck_scale

For those weighing stations I'd see them as a bigger object with the scale
just being a part of it (if I understand that correctly), could be
something like amenity or highway=weighing_station

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Harald Kliems  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:39 PM Paul Johnson
>>
>> Only place I've known this to be true is California.  Everywhere else
>> I've been, it either reverts to a highway parking area (midwest) or a
>> public access scale (northwest) when trucks aren't required to stop, and
>> when trucks are required to stop, access is still generally granted to the
>> public to use the amenities available
>>
> I don't think that's the case in Wisconsin or Ontario/Quebec. When closed,
> these stations always look completely deserted, and when they're open, I
> only ever see trucks in there. But maybe that's just because nobody knows
> that you're allowed to drive in there? It's certainly not covered in the WI
> drivers handbook.
>

Generally speaking, scales that aren't in mandatory stop operations are of
minimal use to anyone other than the long-distance, budget-minded and/or
commercial traveler, since generally speaking the only two things that are
at these locations are highway parking (which is by design always open to
most-to-all comers so fatigued drivers can get off the road and take a
safety nap), usually some litter barrels, and possibly a permanently
installed scale (I say possibly because I've personally encountered a grand
total of zero of these in Oklahoma, leaving just the parking; and some of
the ones in Oklahoma closer to Arkansas often omit the litter barrels as
most of the traffic over the border is going to or from Walmart's central
distribution center, minutes over the line in Fayetteville, Arkansas, or
the college border town of Fort Smith, AR, in which all the traffic's
coming from the Oklahoma side).

As such, most drivers don't bother to enter them because they're not
useful.  And even if they have a scale in operation, it's generally only
useful for the folks who care enough about their suspension and tires to
balance their load and make sure anything they're towing is properly
balanced.
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
> Problem is, as we've observed on what's starting to feel like a weekly
> basis here, there are no rational national assumptions, when in doubt, tag
> it anyway.
>

I think we've also observed that more people map than fix: and

*any such rules embedded in the tagging will quickly become *
*inconsistent to the point of useless.*


 Everywhere else I've been, it either reverts to a highway parking area
> (midwest) or a public access scale (northwest) when trucks aren't required
> to stop, and when trucks are required to stop, access is still generally
> granted to the public to use the amenities available


There are three access cases for non-hgv's:  prohibited by sign, unstated
probably permissive, permitted by sign.  All three exist.
The common unstaffed weigh station in the American west has everything
locked up, it's either a rest area or the rest area is separate.
It's pretty useless to stop.

If it's a permissive rest area,* I argue it should be mapped as a rest
area.*
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Kevin Broderick]

It's worth noting that rules vary heavily by state and, in some cases, may
or may not be signed particularly well.

South Dakota, for example, has signs posted that all vehicles over 8,000
GVWR, except RVs, should stop (and that would include many pickup trucks
and vans), while Montana requires only vehicles at the CDL level (26,000
lbs and above) to stop. Several of the other states I drove through last
summer were less descriptive (e.g. "All trucks must stop" in many cases,
without defining exactly what constituted a truck).

Personally, I think it could be very helpful to have this data (and, as
already suggested, those stations that are almost always open) in OSM, but
I don't know what the best ways for tagging it would be. Having recently
done a cross-country move in a personally owned box van that was not fully
compliant with DOT specification for commercial vehicles, I was very
grateful for local advice that led me to avoid a stop at the South Dakota
port of entry.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Bryce Nesbitt 
wrote:

> While one could get into access tags for weigh stations, it seems like it
> would create as many problems as it solves.
>
> --
>
> A weigh station in the USA is a mandatory stop for heavy goods vehicles,
> and prohibited entry for everyone else.
> Heavy goods vehicles with special equipment can bypass the station, if
> given a bypass signal.
> Stations are often staffed only during limited hours (many stations are
> physically present, but open only sporadically).
>
> A station, if stopping is required, will add travel time to a hgv.
>
>
>
> I think you tag it as is is, and let routing software determine the
> applicable national laws for who it stops.  The tagging should
> relate to a given way, perhaps with "addr:street", or a more fiddly
> relation.
>
> --
> A related concept is a hunter check station, and a boat check station
> (checking hunting permits and checking for invasive weeds respectively).
> California USA has agricultural check stations, mandatory for all
> vehicles, looking for invasive pests.
>
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-- 
Kevin Broderick
k...@kevinbroderick.com
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Harald Kliems]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:39 PM Paul Johnson
>
> Only place I've known this to be true is California.  Everywhere else I've
> been, it either reverts to a highway parking area (midwest) or a public
> access scale (northwest) when trucks aren't required to stop, and when
> trucks are required to stop, access is still generally granted to the
> public to use the amenities available
>
I don't think that's the case in Wisconsin or Ontario/Quebec. When closed,
these stations always look completely deserted, and when they're open, I
only ever see trucks in there. But maybe that's just because nobody knows
that you're allowed to drive in there? It's certainly not covered in the WI
drivers handbook.

 Harald.
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Bryce Nesbitt 
wrote:

> While one could get into access tags for weigh stations, it seems like it
> would create as many problems as it solves.
>
> --
>
> A weigh station in the USA is a mandatory stop for heavy goods vehicles,
> and prohibited entry for everyone else.
>

Only place I've known this to be true is California.  Everywhere else I've
been, it either reverts to a highway parking area (midwest) or a public
access scale (northwest) when trucks aren't required to stop, and when
trucks are required to stop, access is still generally granted to the
public to use the amenities available (highway parking, litter receptacles;
sometimes a storm shelter, rarely a public restroom, telephone, vending
machines), and if they're permanently installed, the scales are
intentionally left on for use by the general public (Oregon often uses
automated speed enforcement cameras on these at the 3 MPH zone over them to
protect the scales from damage, at rarely used permanently installed
scales).  Even then, when they've had a scale out of service at Woodburn
when the other side of the scalehouse is staffed, nobody seemed to care
that I rolled in to adjust load balance on the scales using the unmanned
side (there's two scales in each direction at the Woodburn Port of Entry
scales)


> Heavy goods vehicles with special equipment can bypass the station, if
> given a bypass signal.
> Stations are often staffed only during limited hours (many stations are
> physically present, but open only sporadically).
>

Seems to be on the most major corridors only; I imagine it exists elsewhere
but I've yet to see it anywhere except for parts of the Panamerican Highway
in the US and Canadian west.


> I think you tag it as is is, and let routing software determine the
> applicable national laws for who it stops.  The tagging should
> relate to a given way, perhaps with "addr:street", or a more fiddly
> relation.
>

Problem is, as we've observed on what's starting to feel like a weekly
basis here, there are no rational national assumptions, when in doubt, tag
it anyway.
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Also present near the USA mexican border are "immigration check stations",
where
border patrol agents profile passengers and drivers based on race, and may
ask for identification.
In some places these are mobile stations, others have mappable fixed
infrastructure.

Typically all vehicles must stop.
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Bryce Nesbitt]

While one could get into access tags for weigh stations, it seems like it
would create as many problems as it solves.

--

A weigh station in the USA is a mandatory stop for heavy goods vehicles,
and prohibited entry for everyone else.
Heavy goods vehicles with special equipment can bypass the station, if
given a bypass signal.
Stations are often staffed only during limited hours (many stations are
physically present, but open only sporadically).

A station, if stopping is required, will add travel time to a hgv.



I think you tag it as is is, and let routing software determine the
applicable national laws for who it stops.  The tagging should
relate to a given way, perhaps with "addr:street", or a more fiddly
relation.

--
A related concept is a hunter check station, and a boat check station
(checking hunting permits and checking for invasive weeds respectively).
California USA has agricultural check stations, mandatory for all vehicles,
looking for invasive pests.
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Paul Johnson]

I didn't look closely at the situation, but what rendered looked more or
less right.

Consider an enforcement relation
, and also on the
bypass route (the main highway) hgv=no and a maxweight=* tag for which you
don't have to weigh in on the segment between the exit ramp for the scale
and the enterance ramp from the scale.  Drivers for whom this applies will
appreciate the advance warning that they're going to be slowing
significantly or stopping soon (often well before it's posted if you're
using OsmAnd and in a region where mandatory scales tend to lack adequate
official advanced warning, like Oklahoma and BC) but will be able to infer
a legal bypass if the scales are closed (or maybe stop anyway for a break
if they're due).  Either way, it'll give the crew (be it one or two
members) a little more warning to take appropriate action.

Less useful, but still handy for ETA estimation, at well-known locations
that are extremely rarely, if ever, closed, like the Oregon Port of Entry
Scale, Samuel Baldock Freeway, Woodburn, Oregon.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Harald Kliems  wrote:

> In continuing mapping destination tag on highways based on Mapillary
> imagery, I've come across the problem of how to tag weigh stations on
> Interstate highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_station). I
> haven't found anything in the wiki, and I don't know enough how they work
> to come up with reasonable tagging. What are the rules for access, for
> example?
> An example would be
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/43.00858/-89.22468&layers=N with
> Mapillary imagery starting here
> http://mapillary.com/map/im/xHw-s0_0RrAt3V-yVq4n9g
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
>  Harald.
>
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[Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Harald Kliems]

In continuing mapping destination tag on highways based on Mapillary
imagery, I've come across the problem of how to tag weigh stations on
Interstate highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_station). I haven't
found anything in the wiki, and I don't know enough how they work to come
up with reasonable tagging. What are the rules for access, for example?
An example would be
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/43.00858/-89.22468&layers=N with
Mapillary imagery starting here
http://mapillary.com/map/im/xHw-s0_0RrAt3V-yVq4n9g

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 Harald.
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