Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Brad Neuhauser mailto:brad.neuhau...@gmail.combrad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System#Primary_.28one-_and_two-digit.29_routes_.28contiguous_U.S..29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System#Primary_.28one-_and_two-digit.29_routes_.28contiguous_U.S..29 : In the numbering scheme, east-west highways are assigned even numbers and north-south highways are assigned odd numbers. Odd route numbers increase from west to east, and even-numbered routes increase from south to north (to avoid confusion with the U.S. Highways, which increase from east to west and north to south), though there are exceptions to both principles in several locations. Field signage is sometimes inconsistent with the official rules; for example, US 68 is mostly (entirely?) signed north-south, and I-69 becomes east-west between Lansing and Port Huron. States may have their own rules; some states (MS, FL) follow the even-odd rules that the national routes do, some use an opposite pattern (even N-S, odd E-W), and some have no pattern at all (GA, TN). There are also cases of signage by loop nesting (inner clockwise/outer counterclockwise for RHD) - I-495 around Washington and I-440 around Raleigh NC are examples, along with GA 10 Loop around Athens GA. And in Canada the QEW is directionally signed by destination (Toronto on the clockwise carriageway, Niagara and then Fort Erie on the counterclockwise one). There may be a few more oddballs I've missed. IMO preferred practice should be a relation for each continuous cardinal direction, to keep validation simple; undivided roads should use forward/backward roles to distinguish which relation applies to the underlying way's forward/backward traversal. It shouldn't be too terribly hard to come up with an algorithm to fixup the existing single-relation cases, particularly for the ones where the routes are entirely dual carriageway, although occasionally the heuristics will be wrong and need a manual edit. Well said, Chris. +1, lands right in the middle of where it might, imho. Manual edits on exceptional cases means that somebody, somewhere is paying attention. In a big set, with careful management, that's to be expected. Good show. Encore, author. This is a serious project which aims to accurately map what is. Nice job so far, everybody. I very much like this crowd-sourced map. It only keeps getting better and better. SteveA California___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
This is not a concern in WA, there's no state highways that have the same number as US or Interstate highways. -compdude On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Eric Fischer e...@pobox.com wrote: California gives State, US, and Interstate roads unique signed numbers within the state, but not all states do. Interstate 64 in southern Indiana is close enough to State Road 64 to cause frequent confusion. Eric On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote: On Oct 17, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Nathan Mills wrote: On 10/17/2013 1:03 PM, Richard Welty wrote: If my GPS tells me to turn right at the entrance to East Interstate Whatever and the sign says North Interstate Whatever, I'm going to be confused and wonder if I'm actually making the correct turn. Even more so if it's a printed list of directions. I can't say for the urban auxiliary (three digit) freeways, but the single and double digit Interstates all seem to have on ramp signs that use their nominal direction rather than the compass direction at that particular location. At least that is my understanding from what I've read about the rules and conventions that are supposed to be used and I have never noticed an exception. For what it is worth, it is my understanding that within a state the use of a particular number, at least outside of triple digit urban beltways and penetration Interstates, is supposed to be unique. So if I-10 goes through your state, there will be no US10 nor a state highway 10. I haven't paid much attention to this in other states I've visited but it seems to hold true for California. If true throughout the US then it could be used to help validate highway route numbers. Confusion in California comes in two flavors: In Southern California there is a popular tendency to call freeways by a name (e.g. The Ventura) and use the actual direction the road goes for that named segment (east/west for the Ventura) when giving directions. But the named segment might be on a US or Interstate with a different nominal direction. This bit me years ago when we were mailing out wedding directions and I assumed the on ramp from the hotel area would be labeled for the eastbound Ventura Freeway when, upon checking, it turned out to be labeled for southbound US101. In the San Francisco Bay Area the confusion comes from the fact that the only Interstate to enter the area is I-80. So all the urban auxiliary (three digit) freeways have to have a suffix of 80 (even number implying east/west) even if the road is north/south. So we have 280, 580, 680, 880, etc. all going in different directions. Southern California avoids this by having I-5, I-8, I-10 and I-15 enter the area, so I-210 is basically east/west while I-405 and I-215 are basically north/south. -Tod ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Saikrishna Arcot wrote: Just to add, three-digit routes tend to be either regional or be loop-shaped, where the designated direction changes. On Thu 17 Oct 2013 03:40:07 PM EDT, Ian Dees wrote: On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Yea, I realized that as well. There's even a section of I-80 / I-580 in Berkeley, CA where the directionality of I-80 and I-580 is opposite... http://goo.gl/maps/XROab (The actual compass direction is more like N/S on that stretch.) I don't know if there's a definitive reference for the 'official' directionality of the freeways? (Sorry, meant to send this to the list yesterday): I am not pointing to an authoritative source of Interstate numbering, though I believe this to be accurate or at least very close: it is my understanding that in three-digit routes xyz, these are belt or spur routes off of the yz route, where x=even means belt and x=odd means spur (single connection back to or out from the parent yz route). A belt has two connections to the parent route, but I'm not positive if that is exactly two or not. We have an example in California in the South Bay (area of San Francisco) of 280 and 680 (together) being a belt that connects to 80 (twice, well, almost twice). The split between these two happens sort of conveniently at US-101. Yes, E-W even and N-S odd is correct. Furthermore, routes ending in 0 or 5 are major routes. Remember, directions are for long-distance motorways (Interstate freeways, in local parlance). A bit of local wander in an off direction happens to a lot of roads. Many of these are direction-specific routed roads. That's OK, consider these a local bend in the road. We have roads here signed north which go south. That just means we have geography (coastlines, mountains, et cetera) together with get me from San Francisco to New Jersey on a single named road. 80/580 through Berkeley are an especially wild example of this. It's just local geography messing with long-distance cardinal direction routing. It does that! SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.comwrote: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System#Primary_.28one-_and_two-digit.29_routes_.28contiguous_U.S..29: In the numbering scheme, east-west highways are assigned even numbers and north-south highways are assigned odd numbers. Odd route numbers increase from west to east, and even-numbered routes increase from south to north (to avoid confusion with the U.S. Highways, which increase from east to west and north to south), though there are exceptions to both principles in several locations. Field signage is sometimes inconsistent with the official rules; for example, US 68 is mostly (entirely?) signed north-south, and I-69 becomes east-west between Lansing and Port Huron. States may have their own rules; some states (MS, FL) follow the even-odd rules that the national routes do, some use an opposite pattern (even N-S, odd E-W), and some have no pattern at all (GA, TN). There are also cases of signage by loop nesting (inner clockwise/outer counterclockwise for RHD) - I-495 around Washington and I-440 around Raleigh NC are examples, along with GA 10 Loop around Athens GA. And in Canada the QEW is directionally signed by destination (Toronto on the clockwise carriageway, Niagara and then Fort Erie on the counterclockwise one). There may be a few more oddballs I've missed. IMO preferred practice should be a relation for each continuous cardinal direction, to keep validation simple; undivided roads should use forward/backward roles to distinguish which relation applies to the underlying way's forward/backward traversal. It shouldn't be too terribly hard to come up with an algorithm to fixup the existing single-relation cases, particularly for the ones where the routes are entirely dual carriageway, although occasionally the heuristics will be wrong and need a manual edit. Chris ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Chris, the QEW has three destinations on the counterclockwise direction. In addition to having Niagara and Fort Erie, between Toronto and Hamilton, it's posted for Hamilton. After Hamilton, it then becomes Niagara. I should know, I've traveled the QEW several times in my life. -James From: lordsu...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:59:58 -0400 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System#Primary_.28one-_and_two-digit.29_routes_.28contiguous_U.S..29 : In the numbering scheme, east-west highways are assigned even numbers and north-south highways are assigned odd numbers. Odd route numbers increase from west to east, and even-numbered routes increase from south to north (to avoid confusion with the U.S. Highways, which increase from east to west and north to south), though there are exceptions to both principles in several locations.Field signage is sometimes inconsistent with the official rules; for example, US 68 is mostly (entirely?) signed north-south, and I-69 becomes east-west between Lansing and Port Huron. States may have their own rules; some states (MS, FL) follow the even-odd rules that the national routes do, some use an opposite pattern (even N-S, odd E-W), and some have no pattern at all (GA, TN). There are also cases of signage by loop nesting (inner clockwise/outer counterclockwise for RHD) - I-495 around Washington and I-440 around Raleigh NC are examples, along with GA 10 Loop around Athens GA. And in Canada the QEW is directionally signed by destination (Toronto on the clockwise carriageway, Niagara and then Fort Erie on the counterclockwise one). There may be a few more oddballs I've missed. IMO preferred practice should be a relation for each continuous cardinal direction, to keep validation simple; undivided roads should use forward/backward roles to distinguish which relation applies to the underlying way's forward/backward traversal. It shouldn't be too terribly hard to come up with an algorithm to fixup the existing single-relation cases, particularly for the ones where the routes are entirely dual carriageway, although occasionally the heuristics will be wrong and need a manual edit. Chris ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
The use case would be to distinguish between onramps in routing and guidance. The onramp entrances can be close together, so it helps tremendously if you can say 'turn right onto Interstate 215 West' instead of just 'turn right onto Interstate 215'. On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 10/17/13 12:45 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: I actually think this is more elegant, to create separate relations for the directions, but I don't know how common it is. Looking at http://maproulette.org/relationpages/interstates.html (which I see does no longer get automatically updated..need to look into that) I see a mix of both combined and split relations. i like separate relations for opposite directions, but i don't feel a need to obsess with points of the compass. include N/S or E/W if it makes sense, but otherwise i'm not sure there's a valid use case for these that we need to worry about. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On 10/17/13 1:52 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: The use case would be to distinguish between onramps in routing and guidance. The onramp entrances can be close together, so it helps tremendously if you can say 'turn right onto Interstate 215 West' instead of just 'turn right onto Interstate 215'. hmmm. we're using exit_to (i think) for off ramps, maybe we need entrance_to for on ramps the value would be more or less exactly the text visible on the signage. richard signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
The direction of a US Interstate isn't necessarily the compass direction of the road. For example, this chunk of I-94 is facing south, but it's still eastbound I-94. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/33098899 On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: On 10/17/13 1:52 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: The use case would be to distinguish between onramps in routing and guidance. The onramp entrances can be close together, so it helps tremendously if you can say 'turn right onto Interstate 215 West' instead of just 'turn right onto Interstate 215'. hmmm. we're using exit_to (i think) for off ramps, maybe we need entrance_to for on ramps the value would be more or less exactly the text visible on the signage. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On 10/17/13 3:14 PM, Ian Dees wrote: The direction of a US Interstate isn't necessarily the compass direction of the road. For example, this chunk of I-94 is facing south, but it's still eastbound I-94. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/33098899 this is true of many roads, not just interstates. there's one NY state route in the Adirondacks that is C shaped, so it's official direction is only true for one of the three legs. richard signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
One could argue that even two lane highways could benefit from directional relations. http://shields.aaroads.com/blog/photos/056747.jpg It is unlikely that all access to these types of roads could be tagged. And it might be nice if the routing software says you should be on US 101 South and you see a sign like the linked one you know you have a problem. Tod -- Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse my brevity. Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 10/17/13 1:52 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: The use case would be to distinguish between onramps in routing and guidance. The onramp entrances can be close together, so it helps tremendously if you can say 'turn right onto Interstate 215 West' instead of just 'turn right onto Interstate 215'. hmmm. we're using exit_to (i think) for off ramps, maybe we need entrance_to for on ramps the value would be more or less exactly the text visible on the signage. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013, at 02:14 PM, Ian Dees wrote: The direction of a US Interstate isn't necessarily the compass direction of the road. However, in some cases the directions change as the highway goes on, especially for loops: I-610 in Houston, Texas, changes from north/south to east/west to south/north to west/east as you go around. (Same for Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway, for that matter.) -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
True also of the westbound Ventura Freeway in Los Angeles which is officially US101 North. There is a portion of I10 through Phoenix which runs north/south too. Tod -- Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse my brevity. Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: The direction of a US Interstate isn't necessarily the compass direction of the road. For example, this chunk of I-94 is facing south, but it's still eastbound I-94. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/33098899 On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: On 10/17/13 1:52 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: The use case would be to distinguish between onramps in routing and guidance. The onramp entrances can be close together, so it helps tremendously if you can say 'turn right onto Interstate 215 West' instead of just 'turn right onto Interstate 215'. hmmm. we're using exit_to (i think) for off ramps, maybe we need entrance_to for on ramps the value would be more or less exactly the text visible on the signage. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Yea, I realized that as well. There's even a section of I-80 / I-580 in Berkeley, CA where the directionality of I-80 and I-580 is opposite... http://goo.gl/maps/XROab (The actual compass direction is more like N/S on that stretch.) I don't know if there's a definitive reference for the 'official' directionality of the freeways? On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 10/17/13 3:14 PM, Ian Dees wrote: The direction of a US Interstate isn't necessarily the compass direction of the road. For example, this chunk of I-94 is facing south, but it's still eastbound I-94. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/33098899 this is true of many roads, not just interstates. there's one NY state route in the Adirondacks that is C shaped, so it's official direction is only true for one of the three legs. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Yea, I realized that as well. There's even a section of I-80 / I-580 in Berkeley, CA where the directionality of I-80 and I-580 is opposite... http://goo.gl/maps/XROab (The actual compass direction is more like N/S on that stretch.) I don't know if there's a definitive reference for the 'official' directionality of the freeways? I'm sure someone will pipe up with more authoritative answers, but as far as I know interstates can only be east/west or north/south. North/south roads are odd numbered and east/west are even. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: The direction of a US Interstate isn't necessarily the compass direction of the road. For example, this chunk of I-94 is facing south, but it's still eastbound I-94. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/33098899 On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: On 10/17/13 1:52 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: The use case would be to distinguish between onramps in routing and guidance. The onramp entrances can be close together, so it helps tremendously if you can say 'turn right onto Interstate 215 West' instead of just 'turn right onto Interstate 215'. hmmm. we're using exit_to (i think) for off ramps, maybe we need entrance_to for on ramps the value would be more or less exactly the text visible on the signage. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Another example would be Interstate 24. It nominally runs East/West, but the actual alignment is Southeast/Northwest. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System#Primary_.28one-_and_two-digit.29_routes_.28contiguous_U.S..29: In the numbering scheme, east-west highways are assigned even numbers and north-south highways are assigned odd numbers. Odd route numbers increase from west to east, and even-numbered routes increase from south to north (to avoid confusion with the U.S. Highways, which increase from east to west and north to south), though there are exceptions to both principles in several locations. On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Yea, I realized that as well. There's even a section of I-80 / I-580 in Berkeley, CA where the directionality of I-80 and I-580 is opposite... http://goo.gl/maps/XROab (The actual compass direction is more like N/S on that stretch.) I don't know if there's a definitive reference for the 'official' directionality of the freeways? On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 10/17/13 3:14 PM, Ian Dees wrote: The direction of a US Interstate isn't necessarily the compass direction of the road. For example, this chunk of I-94 is facing south, but it's still eastbound I-94. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/33098899 this is true of many roads, not just interstates. there's one NY state route in the Adirondacks that is C shaped, so it's official direction is only true for one of the three legs. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Just to add, three-digit routes tend to be either regional or be loop-shaped, where the designated direction changes. Saikrishna Arcot On Thu 17 Oct 2013 03:40:07 PM EDT, Ian Dees wrote: On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org mailto:m...@rtijn.org wrote: Yea, I realized that as well. There's even a section of I-80 / I-580 in Berkeley, CA where the directionality of I-80 and I-580 is opposite... http://goo.gl/maps/XROab (The actual compass direction is more like N/S on that stretch.) I don't know if there's a definitive reference for the 'official' directionality of the freeways? I'm sure someone will pipe up with more authoritative answers, but as far as I know interstates can only be east/west or north/south. North/south roads are odd numbered and east/west are even. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On 10/17/2013 03:21 PM, Richard Welty wrote: On 10/17/13 3:14 PM, Ian Dees wrote: The direction of a US Interstate isn't necessarily the compass direction of the road. For example, this chunk of I-94 is facing south, but it's still eastbound I-94. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/33098899 this is true of many roads, not just interstates. there's one NY state route in the Adirondacks that is C shaped, so it's official direction is only true for one of the three legs. richard Closer to home for you and me, there's the little stretch coming north off Exit 25 of the NY State Thruway that is signed I-890 West and NY-7 East. -- 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Thanks for all your input. For the interstates it seems to be somewhat straightforward, at least for the two digit ones as Ian indicated. It gets tricky when you enter the realm of three-digiters and US and state routes... That is where explicit directionality would be helpful. If we were to dig up a definitive resource for the cardinal directions *as signposted* somehow, I see two ways to proceed: 1) continuing the apparently increasingly (?) popular (and to me, sensible) creation of relations per direction and tagging each with direction=[N|S|E|W], splitting up the rarer cases where freeways don't have one single signposted cardinal direction. 2) tagging exising relation members consistently with role=[N|S|E|W]. I much prefer 1) but I am still not convinced I am not overlooking another (better) mapping practice? Martijn On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Saikrishna Arcot saiarcot...@gmail.com wrote: Just to add, three-digit routes tend to be either regional or be loop-shaped, where the designated direction changes. Saikrishna Arcot On Thu 17 Oct 2013 03:40:07 PM EDT, Ian Dees wrote: On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org mailto:m...@rtijn.org wrote: Yea, I realized that as well. There's even a section of I-80 / I-580 in Berkeley, CA where the directionality of I-80 and I-580 is opposite... http://goo.gl/maps/XROab (The actual compass direction is more like N/S on that stretch.) I don't know if there's a definitive reference for the 'official' directionality of the freeways? I'm sure someone will pipe up with more authoritative answers, but as far as I know interstates can only be east/west or north/south. North/south roads are odd numbered and east/west are even. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- -- Martijn van Exel OSM data specialist Telenav http://www.osm.org/user/mvexel http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mvexel http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?mvexel ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On 10/17/2013 1:03 PM, Richard Welty wrote: hmmm. we're using exit_to (i think) for off ramps, maybe we need entrance_to for on ramps the value would be more or less exactly the text visible on the signage. This makes the most sense to me as the solution for the specific use case Martijn is asking about, where the tag value will be used as the basis for generating directions which the user will expect to be consistent with signage. The directional tag on a wayfinding sign at the motorway entrance may or may not correspond to the bannered direction of the route or route segment. If my GPS tells me to turn right at the entrance to East Interstate Whatever and the sign says North Interstate Whatever, I'm going to be confused and wonder if I'm actually making the correct turn. Even more so if it's a printed list of directions. Being able to include control cities as well as cardinality is a nice bonus, also. FWIW, I have in the past typically done one relation for both directions with the bannered cardinal direction in the segments' role tag, if it is bannered, or forward/reverse otherwise. I settled on that for my own work because it plays well with non-motorways that are sometimes divided and sometimes not. There's not really any logical reason two relations and a super relation couldn't be used in that scenario. It just seems somehow less elegant to me to have the extra relations when most of the route is undivided. -Nathan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
On Oct 17, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Nathan Mills wrote: On 10/17/2013 1:03 PM, Richard Welty wrote: If my GPS tells me to turn right at the entrance to East Interstate Whatever and the sign says North Interstate Whatever, I'm going to be confused and wonder if I'm actually making the correct turn. Even more so if it's a printed list of directions. I can't say for the urban auxiliary (three digit) freeways, but the single and double digit Interstates all seem to have on ramp signs that use their nominal direction rather than the compass direction at that particular location. At least that is my understanding from what I've read about the rules and conventions that are supposed to be used and I have never noticed an exception. For what it is worth, it is my understanding that within a state the use of a particular number, at least outside of triple digit urban beltways and penetration Interstates, is supposed to be unique. So if I-10 goes through your state, there will be no US10 nor a state highway 10. I haven't paid much attention to this in other states I've visited but it seems to hold true for California. If true throughout the US then it could be used to help validate highway route numbers. Confusion in California comes in two flavors: In Southern California there is a popular tendency to call freeways by a name (e.g. The Ventura) and use the actual direction the road goes for that named segment (east/west for the Ventura) when giving directions. But the named segment might be on a US or Interstate with a different nominal direction. This bit me years ago when we were mailing out wedding directions and I assumed the on ramp from the hotel area would be labeled for the eastbound Ventura Freeway when, upon checking, it turned out to be labeled for southbound US101. In the San Francisco Bay Area the confusion comes from the fact that the only Interstate to enter the area is I-80. So all the urban auxiliary (three digit) freeways have to have a suffix of 80 (even number implying east/west) even if the road is north/south. So we have 280, 580, 680, 880, etc. all going in different directions. Southern California avoids this by having I-5, I-8, I-10 and I-15 enter the area, so I-210 is basically east/west while I-405 and I-215 are basically north/south. -Tod ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
California gives State, US, and Interstate roads unique signed numbers within the state, but not all states do. Interstate 64 in southern Indiana is close enough to State Road 64 to cause frequent confusion. Eric On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote: On Oct 17, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Nathan Mills wrote: On 10/17/2013 1:03 PM, Richard Welty wrote: If my GPS tells me to turn right at the entrance to East Interstate Whatever and the sign says North Interstate Whatever, I'm going to be confused and wonder if I'm actually making the correct turn. Even more so if it's a printed list of directions. I can't say for the urban auxiliary (three digit) freeways, but the single and double digit Interstates all seem to have on ramp signs that use their nominal direction rather than the compass direction at that particular location. At least that is my understanding from what I've read about the rules and conventions that are supposed to be used and I have never noticed an exception. For what it is worth, it is my understanding that within a state the use of a particular number, at least outside of triple digit urban beltways and penetration Interstates, is supposed to be unique. So if I-10 goes through your state, there will be no US10 nor a state highway 10. I haven't paid much attention to this in other states I've visited but it seems to hold true for California. If true throughout the US then it could be used to help validate highway route numbers. Confusion in California comes in two flavors: In Southern California there is a popular tendency to call freeways by a name (e.g. The Ventura) and use the actual direction the road goes for that named segment (east/west for the Ventura) when giving directions. But the named segment might be on a US or Interstate with a different nominal direction. This bit me years ago when we were mailing out wedding directions and I assumed the on ramp from the hotel area would be labeled for the eastbound Ventura Freeway when, upon checking, it turned out to be labeled for southbound US101. In the San Francisco Bay Area the confusion comes from the fact that the only Interstate to enter the area is I-80. So all the urban auxiliary (three digit) freeways have to have a suffix of 80 (even number implying east/west) even if the road is north/south. So we have 280, 580, 680, 880, etc. all going in different directions. Southern California avoids this by having I-5, I-8, I-10 and I-15 enter the area, so I-210 is basically east/west while I-405 and I-215 are basically north/south. -Tod ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
Tod Fitch wrote: For what it is worth, it is my understanding that within a state the use of a particular number, at least outside of triple digit urban beltways and penetration Interstates, is supposed to be unique. So if I-10 goes through your state, there will be no US10 nor a state highway 10. I haven't paid much attention to this in other states I've visited but it seems to hold true for California. If true throughout the US then it could be used to help validate highway route numbers. That's more of an exception rather than a rule. There's a Texas State Highway 10 near Fort Worth, despite us also having an Interstate 10. -Alexander ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Freeway directions
Hi all, What is the preferred way to indicate the direction of a motorway, for example I-215 Eastbound? I know of at least two possible tags that can be used, there may be more: the direction tag on the relation and the role tag on the relation members. The former to me seems easier to maintain (only one tag per relation instead of a tag on all members), but the latter looks to be (much) more prevalent. My guess this is because of the practice to combine both directions of one freeway in one relation rather than having two relations for the separate directions. -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Freeway directions
The only freeways I've looked at (I-5, I-10, I-15, CA-85), all in California, have relations for the direction and then a super relation for whole thing. Tod -- Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse my brevity. Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Hi all, What is the preferred way to indicate the direction of a motorway, for example I-215 Eastbound? I know of at least two possible tags that can be used, there may be more: the direction tag on the relation and the role tag on the relation members. The former to me seems easier to maintain (only one tag per relation instead of a tag on all members), but the latter looks to be (much) more prevalent. My guess this is because of the practice to combine both directions of one freeway in one relation rather than having two relations for the separate directions. -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
