Re: Quo vadis, Bat?
Hello Dave, den 23 februari 2002, 18:55, you wrote: DC I think you're confusing your own needs for the preferences of DC the wider market; most people use Outlook Express because it's DC easy and nice to look at. Now, if TB! was easy to use and nice to DC look at AND did everything it can do at the moment, wouldn't many DC more people be prepared to buy it? If it did a few more geeky DC things that 99% of people don't need, would sales increase? The reason most people use OE isn't that it's easy and nice to look at. The main reason is that OE comes free and very many of the computer/internet users doesn't even know that other alternatives exists. -- Lennart -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Quo vadis, Bat?
On 23 February 2002 at 17:55 Dave wrote: Hi Stefano, Saturday, February 23, 2002, 5:34:16 PM, you wrote: Stefano Z. Beautiful icons, skins etc, only bloat system ! Ok, then let's keep TB! as a minority piece of software that has no real relevance to mass market needs. Bloating is a function of much more than skins and icons. See previous, less certain, response by myself ;) Stefano Z. The only needs is for a full and extended online help system... I think you're confusing your own needs for the preferences of the wider market; most people use Outlook Express because it's easy and nice to look at. Now, if TB! was easy to use and nice to look at AND did everything it can do at the moment, wouldn't many more people be prepared to buy it? If it did a few more geeky things that 99% of people don't need, would sales increase? I suspect a lot of people use OE because it's there. Then some (by no means all) become dissatisfied as their needs grow and look around; when I started getting seriously into mailing lists OE began to come up short. (And, of course, the fact that OE and many other things are 'there' automatically discriminates against TB! and many other packages. Either that or all these lawyers and judges are wasting their time ;) Alastair -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Quo vadis, Bat?
Hello Nick, den 23 februari 2002, 19:04, you wrote: NA Absolute Nonsense! TB is in 'dire' need of a facelift. How does a new NA set of icons equate to bloat? How about customisable Toolbars? Would you NA consider that bloat... or added functionality? Certainly the Help Files NA need to be addressed, but don't discount a GUI facelift 'and' some new NA icons... TB is very much indeed of those two items. NA Re-read the initial message in this thread... It is true, and RITLabs NA should be paying attention... These are paying Customer that are talking. This is still something that should be directed to the developers and not this list. I just can't see what this has to do with testing the latest beta. -- Lennart -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Quo vadis, Bat?
Hello L Carlson, On Saturday, February 23 2002 at 10:10 AM PDT, you wrote: This is still something that should be directed to the developers and not this list. I just can't see what this has to do with testing the latest beta. It has nothing to do with testing the latest Beta... It's User frustration that is speaking here... and RITLabs would do well to listen to it. -- Nick Andriash Courtenay, B.C. Canada -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re[2]: Quo vadis, Bat?
Hi L, Saturday, February 23, 2002, 6:05:51 PM, you wrote: L Carlson The reason most people use OE isn't that it's easy and nice to look L Carlson at. L Carlson The main reason is that OE comes free and very many of the L Carlson computer/internet users doesn't even know that other alternatives L Carlson exists. Ok, if IE was ugly and hard to use, but free, then would most people stick with it? Of course not ... people are not stupid and so a significant number would soon start looking around, talking to their friends, etc. and hoping to find an alternative. OE is easy to use and looks nice enough AND is free. That's why people use it. It meets their needs. TB! could be a solution for many who want a bit more. TB! can raise the bar of expectation for what e-mail clients can do for ordinary people. Currently, it's an expert user solution; what I am saying is that the developers could usefully benefit by opening themselves up to different user interests and desires WITHOUT throwing away what already works for people like us. With best wishes, Dave -- David Conroy MSW Personal Life and Business Coaching World-wide http://www.e-coaching-only.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Member International Coach Federation, ID 1006660. PGP Key on request mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_pgp Instant Messaging on request mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_im Using The Bat! v1.54 Beta/42 Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: [OT] Quo vadis, Bat?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Saturday, February 23, 2002, 8:06:00 PM, Alastair Scott wrote: (And, of course, the fact that OE and many other things are 'there' automatically discriminates against TB! and many other packages. Either that or all these lawyers and judges are wasting their time ;) Alastair As much as I hate Microsoft's monopolistic tactics, I think that the presence of an e-mail program on a OS with tcp stack is fundamental. Nobody thought about suing a unix vendor for including mail in the OS distribution. - -- George M. Menegakis, System Network Administration Using The BAT! v1.54 Beta/42 on Microsoft Windows 2000Service Pack 2 v5.0 Build(2195) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i Comment: public key: http://ucnetnom.ucnet.uoc.gr/~menes/pub.asc iQA/AwUBPHfAqig1v6CZHIhgEQLIngCgpz3B9qyhE99wgJ35tFSaeVWTYKgAoMcC gx8EjvDSMNGyETxgbKh5Ev4E =AoGt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Quo vadis, Bat?
On 23 February 2002 at 18:10 L wrote: Hello Nick, den 23 februari 2002, 19:04, you wrote: NA Absolute Nonsense! TB is in 'dire' need of a facelift. How does a new NA set of icons equate to bloat? How about customisable Toolbars? Would you NA consider that bloat... or added functionality? Certainly the Help Files NA need to be addressed, but don't discount a GUI facelift 'and' some new NA icons... TB is very much indeed of those two items. NA Re-read the initial message in this thread... It is true, and RITLabs NA should be paying attention... These are paying Customer that are talking. This is still something that should be directed to the developers and not this list. I just can't see what this has to do with testing the latest beta. The developers read this list :) Anyway, voices raised somewhat-off-topically are sometimes required ... especially when the issues raised crystallise what I've been thinking about - inconclusively - for some time and encourage thoughts to be put down on 'paper'. Alastair -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
DEAD HORSE (was Re: Quo vadis, Bat?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi TBBETA, On 23 February 2002 at 10:15:24 -0800 (which was 18:15 where I live) Nick Andriash wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] It has nothing to do with testing the latest Beta... It's User frustration that is speaking here... Perhaps, but have you noticed the name of this forum? If it is not to do with testing the latest beta then it's relevance here has a precarious place only. and RITLabs would do well to listen to it. That may be, but it's stretching a point to use the TBBETA forum for soap-boxing in that way. moderator In view of these facts and that arguments are already getting heated, I have to kill the thread. Please cease this discussion in this forum. /moderator - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ___ \ BrainStorm - quick results - from: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · SB! v1.54 Beta/39/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8d9+mOeQkq5KdzaARAvmaAJ42zbcY9LHrPxA4N/bTDjtnaOm/qgCg+FKH 4cO4VUAPfSHOLUF+06yhESk= =OqMa -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Quo vadis, Bat?
Obviously,I am not most people. If I want something that looks good on my screen, I will put up a photograph and look at it for a while. I use an e-mail client for one purpose; send and receive e-mail. You could put roses all around the edges of the window and it might look nicer but it would not improve the reason I want an e-mail client. I was raised on Eudora. I honestly can't remember it looking all that nice. I quit using it some 2-3 years ago, when version 4 came out, simply because it crashed continually. Tech help with Eudora had an attitude that there was nothing wrong with it; use it and shut up. I have used the_Bat for about 2 years now, and if someone asked me how it looked, I would have a hard time telling them. That is not important to me. -- Have a great day, Sam Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you respond to it. Also, while people on this List may enjoy discussing the minutia of TB! functionality, most people just want software that looks nice on their desktop and does an outstanding job with no hassle. -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Quo vadis, Bat?
Ciao, Stefano Z. Beautiful icons, skins etc, only bloat system ! DC Ok, then let's keep TB! as a minority piece of software that has DC no real relevance to mass market needs. Bloating is a function of DC much more than skins and icons. Yes, but function are useful while skins etc are useless, obviously IMHO... Stefano Z. The only needs is for a full and extended online help DC system... DC I think you're confusing your own needs for the preferences of DC the wider market; No, i think is the need of all TB users... without a good manual/help, all that functions are useless (because are not know !) DC most people use Outlook Express because it's easy and nice to look at. No, all user are using OE because it is already installed on SO... DC Now, if TB! was easy to use and nice to look at AND did everything DC it can do at the moment, wouldn't many DC more people be prepared to buy it? Yes of course, but if now TB is 4-5mb in size and occupies about 12/14mb of ram, after skins, it will be a monster of 6-7mb and occupies 17-20mb Only for do the same thing that it do now... Obviously, if skins are implemented, i still continue to use it ! Only because of its unique features ! -- PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/refer/pal=sztrash40libero.it ICQ: 3813299 Saluti, Stefano Zamprogno -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
Re: Quo vadis, Bat?
Hi Miguel, I _use_ TB because of its functionality. I don't sit in front of my screen to watch pretty icons You can probably guess what I'm going to say. g As I have said elsewhere, I think TB's interface is in great need of a facelift. Not just to be prettier (although it wouldn't do any harm) but to be easier and more productive to use. Good (interface) design is a combination of function and appeal. Sadly, TB suffers in both areas. Although TB has a great many excellent /capabilities/ (for want of a better word), many of them are both difficult to use and inelegantly implemented. A thorough redesign of the interface is needed both to improve TB's functionality as well as its marketability. -- Ian Petersen -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
DEAD HORSE (was Quo vadis, Bat?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi TBBETA, On 23 February 2002 at 21:15:59 +0100 (which was 20:15 where I live) Stefano Z. wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, but function are useful while skins etc are useless, obviously IMHO... moderator This topic went way off and I have already pronounced it dead. While I understand and sympathize with the sentiment, I have had to kill this thread. Please take it off-list or to TBOT. Thank you. /moderator - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ___ \ BrainStorm - brain amplifier - at: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · SB! v1.54 Beta/39/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8d/6pOeQkq5KdzaARAuY1AKDgv3nWXFDf0f5G8wowSAml9ByCeACgrJfo mcBWf9veZtuEhyXTSoMWT2A= =NZZJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- _ Archives : http://tbbeta.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish List : http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com BugTraq: https://bt.ritlabs.com/
