Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Dwight, On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:42:48 -0500 GMT (01/07/2005, 23:42 +0700 GMT), Dwight A Corrin wrote: DAC I have been gradually changing subscriptions over from my various POP DAC accounts to fastmail. I just received a confirmation message, which I DAC would like to edit because it tells me what the password is. I'd DAC rather not have that sitting around. There are different reasons to want to edit an incoming mail, and different methods have been suggested. Alas, it would be nice if it were possible from within TB. And yes, an indicator this message has been altered would be appropriate. -- Cheers, Thomas. If they don't want us to drink and drive, why do you have to have a driver's license to buy beer? Message reply created with The Bat! 3.51 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Sat 2-Jul-05 12:25pm -0500, Roelof Otten wrote: When you really want to drop the Resent-from, then you could use this filter: Thanks for showing this method to the group. I use similar filters for a multitude of purposes. For this particular purpose, I take a different approach: (1) Press Ctrl-E and fill out the address (2) Instead of send, queue to Output (3) Edit Output message by typing, on a blank line: crfctrl-space (4) Send the message Of course you need a Quick Template named 'crf' with stands for Clear Resent-From and contains: %SetHeader(Resent-from,)%- %SetHeader(X-Sender,)%- (I wrote this a long time ago when, I think, TB! was adding an X-Sender line.) This approach is very simple and works with any type of message with or without attachments. However it would be even simply - fully automatic - if we could to do pre-send filters. I could write one to perform those two actions on every email going out to my wife :-) -- Best regards, Bill The Bat 3.5.36 Pro BayesIt! 0.8.1 X-Ray 1.4.0.0 XP Pro SP2 POP3 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Sat 2-Jul-05 11:39am -0500, Roelof Otten wrote: According to RFC2822 (and that's the law concerning e-mails) a message should contain the sender's address in the From header and when that's not the case the Resent-From or the Sender header should be present. When this causes filtering problems, you've got to adapt your filters. Yes, I am aware of the rules. Rules are made to be broken - when you are breaking those rules for non- malicious reasons :-) -- Best regards, Bill The Bat 3.5.36 Pro BayesIt! 0.8.1 X-Ray 1.4.0.0 XP Pro SP2 POP3 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hallo Bill, On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 21:16:46 -0500GMT (2-7-2005, 4:16 +0200, where I live), you wrote: BM TB! violates this. For example, it adds identifying BM headers to outgoing email that can't be changed without BM an external tool. What do you consider identifying about Date, Message-ID or MIME-version? -- Groetjes, Roelof WinErr: 010 Reserved for future mistakes by our developers The Bat! 3.5.36 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpK75K7fEicG.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Allie, This will not work for an IMAP user since imported messages are imported to the local cache and not to the actual mailbox. Yes, I always forget that IMAP exists and that things are (may be) different there. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.0.31 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 5:06:02 AM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: Yes, I always forget that IMAP exists and that things are (may be) different there. I don't mind singing that odd note here and there for you. :) -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Oxymoron: Small Crowd. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Sat 2-Jul-05 2:38am -0500, Roelof Otten wrote: Hallo Bill, On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 21:16:46 -0500GMT (2-7-2005, 4:16 +0200, where I live), you wrote: BM TB! violates this. For example, it adds identifying BM headers to outgoing email that can't be changed without BM an external tool. What do you consider identifying about Date, Message-ID or MIME-version? Nothing, but adding a Resent-from line causes filter problems. An example may be helpful. I often receive mail intended for my wife. I can simply redirect those mails to her. My forwarding address appears in the Return-Path: and my actual address appears in Received: - these are fine, I am fully identified (the address in this mail is a forwarding address - it forwards to my real ISP address). However it also adds me in a Resent-From: field. That is the field that causes improper filtering at her end. A Pre-send filter would allow me to dump those header records without needing to external SMTP filtering to dump them. -- Best regards, Bill The Bat 3.5.36 Pro BayesIt! 0.8.1 X-Ray 1.4.0.0 XP Pro SP2 POP3 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hallo Bill, On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 11:12:31 -0500GMT (2-7-2005, 18:12 +0200, where I live), you wrote: BM Nothing, but adding a Resent-from line causes filter BM problems. An example may be helpful. Ah, I see. You're problem is not that TB adds identifying headers, but that they cause filtering problems. IMO TB should not allow you to drop the Resent-From header, unless it would be replaced by a Sender header, but that would cause similar problems for you. According to RFC2822 (and that's the law concerning e-mails) a message should contain the sender's address in the From header and when that's not the case the Resent-From or the Sender header should be present. When this causes filtering problems, you've got to adapt your filters. -- Groetjes, Roelof If the water is clean, you see the bottom, if dirty, you see yourself. The Bat! 3.5.36 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpun5PK0IHqK.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hallo Roelof, On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:39:04 +0200GMT (2-7-2005, 18:39 +0200, where I live), you wrote: RO IMO TB should not allow you to drop the Resent-From header, unless it RO would be replaced by a Sender header, but that would cause similar RO problems for you. RO According to RFC2822 (and that's the law concerning e-mails) a message RO should contain the sender's address in the From header and when that's RO not the case the Resent-From or the Sender header should be present. RO When this causes filtering problems, you've got to adapt your filters. When you really want to drop the Resent-from, then you could use this filter: TB! Message Filter beginFilter UID: [DF4D7DB8.01C57F24.645E9E97.7863BAFA] Name: Redirected\20messages Filter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ExportMessage OverwriteExist FmtText filename C:\5Cexport.msg filenamerelative C:\5Cexport.msg template %SetPattRegExp\3D\22(.*^)Resent-from:\20Bill\20McCarthy\20[EMAIL PROTECTED]\5Cn(.*)\22%-\0D\0A%RegExpBlindMatch\3D\22%Headers\22%-\0D\0A%SubPatt\3D\221\22%-\0D\0AComments:\20Hi\20honey,\20I\20redirected\20this\20message\0D\0A%SubPatt\3D\222\22%-\0D\0A%Text\0D\0A\0D\0A\0D\0A RunExternal CmdLine I:\5CProgram\20Files\5CThe\20Bat!\5Cthebat.exe\20/IMPORTU\3Dbill;F\3DOutbox;I\3D\22C:\5Cexport.msg\22 folder \5C\5Cbill\5CInbox Delete IsManual IsActive IsHotkey IsHotkeyOnly IsSendQueue endFilter I've added your list address in the regexp, note that it should be the main address of the forwarding account. (in the export template) I made the assumption that your account name would be 'bill', you should replace that with the real name. (in the import action) While you're editing the filter, you could delete the Delete action and try the filter on a parked redirected message. I'm afraid the filter won't solve any problems for messages with attachments. -- Groetjes, Roelof I'm not a Vulcan, but I play one on TV - Leonard Nimoy The Bat! 3.5.36 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpPLuL3PVQ8H.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Saturday, July 2, 2005, at 15:59:15 [UTC-0500] (Saturday, July 2, 2005 22:59 my local time) Mary Bull wrote: You can make many things using such trick, e.g., repair threads, use HTML templates, modify different parts of message or even substitute or delete attachments. I am very intrigued. Would it be practical to set this up as a Quick Template, rather than a filter in the Sorting Office? I suppose it is impossible to use such mechanism in templates, because they act only on message text in the editor. First operation in the filter is exporting message to Unix mailbox file. This can be done only manually or using filter action. This is only first reason which prevent automated message modification using template. Another reason may be inability to edit all header fields by template, even using macros with regular expressions. Again, it can be done manually in good text editor, for example in TextPad, but the we loose all automation. In other words, a one or two click editing mechanism, such as the one Dwight Corrin envisioned, so that the message body could be edited without changing the References used in threading? What about filter triggered by one simple keyboard shortcut? This is more universal solution because filters can process entire message with its original structure, attachments, etc. I use several filter sets prepared especially for different tasks of such kind and they save my time. For example, more than two year ago I built filters for re-threading messages. They are resident in Marck's repository [1], but due to new filtering mechanism implemented in The Bat! those filters are now old-fashioned. Now I am using modified filters with export/import/modify features. They are attached in one text file (description of their action is unchanged and available at [1]). Also, to automatically put a message-altered notification into the process? Yes, this is quite easy task in the filter template described in my previous message. Of course, you can first define X-Message-Altered field in the header configuration panel and then set it by the filter template in redirected and modified message before sending. However, this additional message header field can be set immediately in that filter, by including simple line: X-Message-Altered: any text here. That is the power of The Bat! filtering mechanism. __ [1] http://cgi.silverstones.com/library.php#rethread+messages Attachments: 1. Add_Remove_Reference.txt -- Best regards, Zygmunt Wereszczynski (Using The Bat! v3.5.36 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 with BayesIt! 0.8.1) TB! Message Filter beginFilter UID: [85FC1D80.01C4C0A7.06BD38FA.52EB88E6] Name: Add_Reference Filter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ExportMessage OverwriteExist FmtUnix filename D:\5CUnix_Msg.txt filenamerelative D:\5CUnix_Msg.txt ExportMessage OverwriteExist FmtText filename D:\5Cexport.msg filenamerelative D:\5Cexport.msg template %_OldMsg(%Put\3D\22D:\5CUnix_Msg.txt\22)%-\0D\0A%SetPattRegExp\3D\22(?ismU)(.*)(^Subject:.*\5Cs*.*\5Cn)(\5Cw.*?)\22%RegexpBlindMatch(%_OldMsg)%-\0D\0A%Subpatt(1)%Subpatt(2)In-Reply-To:\20%Clipboard\0D\0AReferences:\20%Clipboard\0D\0A%Subpatt(3)%-\0D\0A RunExternal Wait CmdLine C:\5CProgram\20Files\5CThe\20Bat!\5Cthebat.exe\20/IMPORTF\3DIMPORT;X;R;W;I\3D\22D:\5Cexport.msg\22 RunExternal RunHidden Wait CmdLine D:\5Cremove.bat MoveMessage folder \5C\5C\5CTrash IsManual IsActive IsHotkey IsSendQueue endFilter TB! Message Filter beginFilter UID: [8D62EE00.01C4C0A7.2B2D3918.3A1B017D] Name: Remove_Reference Filter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ExportMessage OverwriteExist FmtUnix filename D:\5CUnix_Msg.txt filenamerelative D:\5CUnix_Msg.txt ExportMessage OverwriteExist FmtText filename D:\5Cexport.msg filenamerelative D:\5Cexport.msg template %_OldMsg(%Put\3D\22D:\5CUnix_Msg.txt\22)%-\0D\0A%SetPattRegExp\3D\22(?ismU)(.*)(^References:.*\5Cs*.*\5Cn)(\5Cw.*?)\22%RegexpBlindMatch(%_OldMsg)%-\0D\0A%_NewHeader\3D\22%Subpatt(1)%Subpatt(3)\22%-\0D\0A%SetPattRegExp\3D\22(?ismU)(.*)(^In-Reply-To:.*\5Cs*.*\5Cn)(\5Cw.*?)\22%RegexpBlindMatch(%_NewHeader)%-\0D\0A%Subpatt(1)%Subpatt(3)\0D\0A\0D\0A%SetPattRegExp\3D\22(?ism)\5Cn\5Cn(.*)\22%RegexpMatch(%_OldMsg)%-\0D\0A RunExternal Wait CmdLine C:\5CProgram\20Files\5CThe\20Bat!\5Cthebat.exe\20/IMPORTF\3DIMPORT;X;R;W;I\3D\22D:\5Cexport.msg\22 RunExternal RunHidden Wait CmdLine D:\5Cremove.bat MoveMessage folder \5C\5C\5CTrash IsManual IsActive IsHotkey IsCheckRule IsHotkeyOnly IsSendQueue endFilter Content of the file D:\remove.bat: -- DEL D:\Unix_Msg.txt EXIT Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Zygmunt! On Saturday, July 02, 2005, 5:48 PM, you wrote: snipped interesting and helpful answers and explanations [1] http://cgi.silverstones.com/library.php#rethread+messages Attachments: 1. Add_Remove_Reference.txt Thank you so very much. This will help me. I have a number of correspondents whose messages I like to save, but who use the Outlook Express method of simply hitting Reply and top-posting. Pages and pages accumulate in some evenings' conversations. So I'd like to do a quick snip from time to time. :) Also, would be useful in getting rid of Yahoo footers in TBOT. I like to keep a complete archive of TBOT, as I try to of the TB! mailing lists. I like having these messages on my own machine. So, after I read a TBOT message, when time permits, I could excise the superfluous material and yet, if later I wished to reply, I wouldn't mess up the threading. Thanks for the expert help! :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.5.36 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Dwight A Corrin everyone else, on 01-Jul-2005 at 18:42 you (Dwight A Corrin) wrote: I have been gradually changing subscriptions over from my various POP accounts to fastmail. I just received a confirmation message, which I would like to edit because it tells me what the password is. I'd rather not have that sitting around. To heat the discussion - you can mark an attachment and delete it anytime (which I do regularly). Count me in to the pro-editing fraction. Even Outlook allows it. Isn't that justification enough? ;-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Deliplayer2 is playing: Flowers Become Screens (Deepsky Remix) (7:57) by Delerium from the album 'Poem (Bonus CD)' Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hallo Dwight, On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:42:48 -0500GMT (1-7-2005, 18:42 +0200, where I live), you wrote: DAC I have been gradually changing subscriptions over from my various POP DAC accounts to fastmail. I just received a confirmation message, which I DAC would like to edit because it tells me what the password is. I'd DAC rather not have that sitting around. Well, delete it. DAC Please don't tell me I should adopt OTFE to deal with this problem. DAC Especially if you are among those having so much trouble with it. OTFE problems? None over here. -- Groetjes, Roelof FIDO: Fading Into Discreet Obsolescence The Bat! 3.5.36 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpWqDx44HrgM.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Dwight! On Friday, July 01, 2005, 11:42 AM, you wrote: I have been gradually changing subscriptions over from my various POP accounts to fastmail. I just received a confirmation message, which I would like to edit because it tells me what the password is. I'd rather not have that sitting around. I guess that you do know the (only somewhat satisfactory) work-around for that. Do you happen to know whether a feature request to be able to edit the incoming message is on BT Wish List? (Not that there's much hope of it being implemented there, even as a User option, not the default.) Please don't tell me I should adopt OTFE to deal with this problem. Especially if you are among those having so much trouble with it. You know, just thinking it over. I think as a temporary solution, what I would do, faced with your problem, is to copy the entire message with the password in it to a new message to myself. Then I would use PGP to encrypt it (using my editor Privacy menu) and send it off. When I received the encrypted message, I would make a new folder for it and store it there. Then I'd delete the old, original message. Yes, I would, even if that destroyed the record that it had been sent and received. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.5.36 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 1, 2005, 11:44:03 AM, Roelof Otten wrote: DAC I have been gradually changing subscriptions over from my DAC various POP accounts to fastmail. I just received a confirmation DAC message, which I would like to edit because it tells me what the DAC password is. I'd rather not have that sitting around. Well, delete it. I don't want to delete it, I want to remove the password. It says right at the top of the message that it is the instructions for the list, you should keep it for future reference, etc. Once in a while, one does want to go back and refer to the information they send. They don't resend each month like the TB! lists. And I don't want OTFE no matter how well it works. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.5.36 on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hi Alexander, --On Friday, July 01, 2005 6:43 PM +0200 you wrote in part: Count me in to the pro-editing fraction. Even Outlook allows it. Isn't that justification enough? ;-) :) ... another reason in which I use editing new email is that I am on a lot of technical lists, and many people refuse, or because of a lack of knowledge, trim their emails. This many times goes several replies deep, making 100s of lines of useless redundant information. Since I store important email on one or more IMAP servers, I must trim these emails. Currently I do so quite easily using Mutt. I might save 5 or 10 lines of code, and delete 150 lines of redundant junk. Multiply this by 1000s of emails, and one can see the disk space saved. -- Gary Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 1, 2005, 11:49:03 AM, Mary Bull wrote: You know, just thinking it over. I think as a temporary solution, what I would do, faced with your problem, is to copy the entire message with the password in it to a new message to myself. Then I would use PGP to encrypt it (using my editor Privacy menu) and send it off. When I received the encrypted message, I would make a new folder for it and store it there. Then I'd delete the old, original message. Yes, I would, even if that destroyed the record that it had been sent and received. I just want to be able to click in the message, delete about 8 characters, click save, or CtrlS or some such, and be done with it. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.5.36 on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Dwight! On Friday, July 01, 2005, 11:59 AM, you wrote: I just want to be able to click in the message, delete about 8 characters, click save, or CtrlS or some such, and be done with it. I do understand and agree with you. Was just considering your present dilemma. But, my agreement was the reason I asked if you knew of a Wish List (BT) request that we could write support notes to. Enough people might sign on to the Wish to make RL reconsider its policy stand on unchangeable incoming messages. The work-around that I referred to was to put the message in the Outbox and edit it there, then save it back to a folder. (This would not keep the password, as my idea for encryption would--I thought you would want the password, also. But I guess you have another safe way to store that.) Or, of course, you could do a cp of the message body in Notepad, edit it, and then recopy it into TB! . The work-arounds are indeed cumbersome and time-consuming. If you'll find a Feature Request entry in BT and post the link, I'll be happy to write a supporting note, as will--from a recent discussion of this issue that I saw on TBUDL--a number of other TB! users, I think. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.5.36 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:54:48 -0500 Dwight A Corrin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday, July 1, 2005, 11:44:03 AM, Roelof Otten wrote: DAC I have been gradually changing subscriptions over from my DAC various POP accounts to fastmail. I just received a confirmation DAC message, which I would like to edit because it tells me what the DAC password is. I'd rather not have that sitting around. Well, delete it. I don't want to delete it, I want to remove the password. It says right at the top of the message that it is the instructions for the list, you should keep it for future reference, etc. Once in a while, one does want to go back and refer to the information they send. They don't resend each month like the TB! lists. Anytime I receive an email with a password in the clear in it, the first thing I do is change the password unless the message was received encrypted. -- not at home, using ISP's web mail \\' Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:06:46 -0500 Mary Bull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, my agreement was the reason I asked if you knew of a Wish List (BT) request that we could write support notes to. Enough people might sign on to the Wish to make RL reconsider its policy stand on unchangeable incoming messages. If they do incorporate an editor to change an incoming message, I hope the save function will insert a statement in the header or at the top of the body that the message has been manually editted since its original receipt. -- TB! not available - not at home. Using ISPs webmail interface. \\' Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 1, 2005, at 11:54:48 [UTC-0500] (Friday, July 1, 2005 18:54 my local time) Dwight A Corrin wrote: DAC [...] I just received a confirmation DAC message, which I would like to edit because it tells me what the DAC password is. I'd rather not have that sitting around. Well, delete it. I don't want to delete it, I want to remove the password. It says right at the top of the message that it is the instructions for the list, you should keep it for future reference, etc. This task should be done now using manually triggered filter without editor. I can prepare such filter if you give me more information about structure of the message (its constant text elements, format, decorations etc.) P.S. I don't agree that incoming message editing would be possible in The Bat!. Incoming correspondence should stay as is. -- Best regards, Zygmunt Wereszczynski (Using The Bat! v3.5.36 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 with BayesIt! 0.8.1) Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 1, 2005, 12:54:09 PM, Leif Gregory wrote: If they do incorporate an editor to change an incoming message, I hope the save function will insert a statement in the header or at the top of the body that the message has been manually editted since its original receipt. Definitely. Something like X-Content-Modified: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 10:18:04 -0700 (MDT) That would be great. When I used to make notes in mail with Eudora many years ago, I always used a different font, and a different color. I wasn't trying to trick any one, and I wanted to be able to tell what were my notes, and what was the original content. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.5.36 on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 1, 2005, 1:01:31 PM, Zygmunt Wereszczynski wrote: Incoming correspondence should stay as is. For those who want to keep it as is. For those who don't have that concern, it should stay as they choose. I don't tell others how to keep their inbox, and no one else needs to tell me how to keep mine. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.5.36 on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Leif Gregory everyone else, on 01-Jul-2005 at 19:54 you (Leif Gregory) wrote: If they do incorporate an editor to change an incoming message, I hope the save function will insert a statement in the header or at the top of the body that the message has been manually editted since its original receipt. Definitely. Something like X-Content-Modified: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 10:18:04 -0700 (MDT) That sounds like a good idea. But it appears to me that (thinking of the current re-threading implementation) TB has no real way of altering message headers once they're in the messagebase. Perhaps the whole thing should be an administrative setting: a revision proof mode that does not allow changes, and a normal user mode that allows changes to be made. A while ago some (cough-cough) people here had a heated discussion on whether its OK for gmail to scan mails show ads fitting the content. It was argued then that, once a message is sent, you no longer own it, and the recipient may do whatever he wants with it. I can agree with that. After all, I'm free to throw away page two of my insurance invoice, or page three of a letter from my mother, whenever I want to. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Allen's Distinction: The lion and the calf shall lie down together, but the calf won't get much sleep. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello George! On Friday, July 01, 2005, 1:21 PM, you wrote: P.S. I don't agree that incoming message editing would be possible in The Bat!. Incoming correspondence should stay as is. But *IT IS* possible. Just move the mail to the outbox, edit it, and move it back and delete the original. The edited mail, with the exception of modifications, is identical to the original. There is one other change that this method causes: The date/time stamp is changed. For most people who wish to modify this method, that wouldn't be a difficulty. If the mailing list was the source of the message and one subsequently replied to the message after modifying it in the Outbox, there would be a change--at least it's what I've understood--in references. I would like to have this feature but I think that it would be tricky to modify the behaviour of the viewer in order to be able to be viewer and editor with the click of one button. Maybe that's way Rit hadn't implement it yet. I think, from what I read in the discussion sometime earlier this year on TBUDL, that it was a policy decision based on a strongly held perception that it is wrong to make changes to Received messages. Although you may be right, also, about difficulties presented in writing code to implement such a feature. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.5.36 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hallo George, On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 21:21:37 +0300GMT (1-7-2005, 20:21 +0200, where I live), you wrote: GMM But *IT IS* possible. Just move the mail to the outbox, edit it, and move it GMM back and delete the original. The edited mail, with the exception of GMM modifications, is identical to the original. Not quite identical. TB removes every header that's inserted by mta's and the date and message-id are replaced by new ones. -- Groetjes, Roelof No one test the depth of a river with both feet. The Bat! 3.5.36 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgptvRcf6wXJK.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Gleason! On Friday, July 01, 2005, 2:42 PM, you wrote: I think, from what I read in the discussion sometime earlier this year on TBUDL, that it was a policy decision based on a strongly held perception that it is wrong to make changes to Received messages. Because that presents a different security problem. I'm not sure there is a right/wrong boundary here. In the end locks only keep honest people honest. There is no such thing as malice proof. If you want to edit the text in a message, there are ways to do that. If you want to steal a password, that can be done as well. I think I understand what you are saying. I would never edit a mail and claim that it was the original. I would always note clearly the changes I had made. As for my own security, I do as much as seems to me reasonably prudent, always ready to change my ways if newer information comes to me. As to right and wrong, I try to live by the guideline, Treat others as you would like them to treat you. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.5.36 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 1, 2005, at 21:21:37 [UTC+0300] (Friday, July 1, 2005 20:21 my local time) George M. Menegakis wrote: P.S. I don't agree that incoming message editing would be possible in The Bat!. Incoming correspondence should stay as is. But *IT IS* possible. Just move the mail to the outbox, edit it, and move it back and delete the original. The edited mail, with the exception of modifications, is identical to the original. As I wrote previously, it is possible, but not with this simple method. For example, if you edit HTML message using TB! editor, you loose almost all its original structure. Despite of my opinion about keeping mail in original form, this task can be done either by manual editing the exported message and then importing it, or by manually triggered filter when the message has known and fixed structure. I would like to have this feature but I think that it would be tricky to modify the behaviour of the viewer in order to be able to be viewer and editor with the click of one button. Maybe that's way Rit hadn't implement it yet. Embedding such features into The Bat! is not so easy, and in my opinion, it is unwanted. Advanced users have that possibility by means of external editor or internal filter and that's why it is enough. -- Best regards, Zygmunt Wereszczynski (Using The Bat! v3.5.36 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 with BayesIt! 0.8.1) Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:57:26 -0500 Mary Bull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think, from what I read in the discussion sometime earlier this year on TBUDL, that it was a policy decision based on a strongly held perception that it is wrong to make changes to Received messages. I, too, dont like to change incoming email. But reflecting back on the original reason for this thread (delete a plaintext password), maybe a block overwrite function could be implemented vice a free text edit. IE: highlight the errant word or phrase and hit a hotkey to replace the block with a string of Xs or other character (user settable?) that is the same length as the highlighted block. Thus making it obvious something was blanked out. Just a random thought .. it's getting late and I'm still at work. -- TB! not available. Am at work using my ISP's webmail interface. \\' Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 1, 2005, 3:10:42 PM, Zygmunt Wereszczynski wrote: Embedding such features into The Bat! is not so easy, and in my opinion, it is unwanted. Not wanted by who. Maybe we who DO want it can decide if we want it or not. Advanced users have that possibility by means of external editor or internal filter and that's why it is enough. That's a pretty elitist approach. Us smart advanced users can figure it out, and those dummies who can't don't need or deserve it. They just don't realize the don't want it. I don't want to have to put on an advanced user hat for something which shouldn't need on, and a functionality one should not have to beg for, and be judged a bad person for imagining they have the right to tamper with the data on their computer. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.5.36 on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hallo Gleason, On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:46:18 -0700GMT (1-7-2005, 21:46 +0200, where I live), you wrote: GP TB is still sending duplicate messages sometimes, I see. Well, I aven't sdeen a duplicate message on the tb-lists for quite some time. I guess it might a server problem at your side. -- Groetjes, Roelof I think, therefore, I cannot be a moderator. The Bat! 3.5.36 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpvGmyaDgTp6.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello Dwight, I have been gradually changing subscriptions over from my various POP accounts to fastmail. I just received a confirmation message, which I would like to edit because it tells me what the password is. I'd rather not have that sitting around. Export the message, edit it with a text editor and re-import. Then delete the original. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.0.31 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Hello George, Until then, copy the message to outbox. Make the modifications and move it back to its original folder. Yes, that's even easier that the export/edit/import I have just suggested. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.0.31 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Fri 1-Jul-05 11:42am -0500, Dwight A Corrin wrote: I have been gradually changing subscriptions over from my various POP accounts to fastmail. I just received a confirmation message, which I would like to edit because it tells me what the password is. I'd rather not have that sitting around. If all you want to do is manually edit a received message, that is fairly easy to do (as long as you don't mind moving it when you are done). To edit in place we need a functioning %FolderName macro that returns the full folder name. I have been asking for that for well over a year. Until my most recent request last week, I have never received a response from Ritlabs - 9Val didn't say he planned to do anything about it - but he thought it was a good idea. The feature many of us really want is the ability to automatically manipulate a message BEFORE it hits the inbox - so the filtering system acts on the modified message. A simple example is to clean up the subject line without having to resort to using external utilities, such as X-Ray (a great tool but missing the wonderful TB! features). I agree with others that an email client should add things, on its own, to incoming or outgoing email unless the user can easily reverse what it has done. TB! violates this. For example, it adds identifying headers to outgoing email that can't be changed without an external tool. Because of this sort of thing, which I believe is compliant with email rules, we also need pre-send filtering. Many of us have been asking for pre-inbox and pre-send filtering for years. -- Best regards, Bill The Bat 3.5.36 Pro BayesIt! 0.8.1 X-Ray 1.4.0.0 XP Pro SP2 POP3 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 01, 2005 at 5:06:24 PM [GMT -0500], Gleason Pace wrote: Might be, but the way it looks to me is that if I take a while considering what I am saying it will send dups. It was pretty bad when I had the setting to save a draft every 2 minutes turned on. Somebody got 36 copies of the same message. It sounds to me like you're using a server side Outbox and this doesn't always work out well. You need to switch to using a local Outbox. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Evolution is a harsh mistress. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 01, 2005 at 5:41:21 PM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: Export the message, edit it with a text editor and re-import. Then delete the original. This will not work for an IMAP user since imported messages are imported to the local cache and not to the actual mailbox. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- If it works, tear it apart and find out why! Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
Allie Martin It sounds to me like you're using a server side Outbox and this doesn't always work out well. You need to switch to using a local Outbox. Sounds like a useful suggestion. I see in the imap account properties where I can specify an outbox, but all the choices are on the server. What am I missing? -- Gleason Using The Bat! v3.5.36 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Primarily using the Fastmail IMAP server which uses Cyrus. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 12:30:13 AM [GMT -0500], Gleason Pace wrote: Sounds like a useful suggestion. I see in the imap account properties where I can specify an outbox, but all the choices are on the server. What am I missing? Just disable the option entirely by unticking the box to the left for the Outbox. Hit Ok and you'll now be using the local Outbox. I've been using a local Outbox for a long time because of the problems you sited. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Minds are like parachutes, they only work when open. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
