Re: Localisation (was: Re[5]: Keyboard Shortcut to move to next unread message?)
Hello Thomas Fernandez, On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:22:58 +0800 GMT your local time, which was Friday, December 24, 1999, 3:22:58 PM (GMT+0700) my local time, Thomas Fernandez wrote: Thomas Hi tracer, Thomas On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:06:10 +0700GMT (12/24/1999, 16:06 +0800GMT), Thomas tracer wrote: t someone should translate the help file!! Thomas The help file is currently available in Enghlish, Russian, GErman Thomas AFAIK. You are free to translate it into further languages. ;-) I may be able to read Italian/French but writing. Thomas As you know, RIT Labs not (quite) a Microsoft yet, so they rely Thomas heavily on volunteers for translating interfaces (or help files, for Thomas that matter). so, someone treanslate an interface, and later a new Thomas feature is added. Maybe this someone cannot be reached. So it is shown Thomas in English, even in the Italian version. Solution? Suggest one. ;-) Try to get it done in universities as a computer Project and let them use the bat in a special release... Doesnt cost anything and all you loose is customers who werent going to buy it anyway. Plus that the students might consider it a useful project... Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Other windows crashes
Hello Frank Farance, On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 23:06:54 -0500 GMT your local time, which was Friday, December 24, 1999, 11:06:54 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Frank Farance wrote: Frank The Bat somehow corrupts the registry when you select it as the default mailer. The following test should recreate the problem: Frank 1. Install Eudora Light Frank 2. Run Eudora so it asks "should I be your default mail program?". Answer Yes. Frank 3. Install The Bat. Frank 4. Run The Bat so it asks "should I be your default mail program?". Answer Yes. Frank 5. Run Eudora again so it asks "should I be your default mail program?". Answer Yes. Frank 6. Winodws will crash hard. Well, Blame a Mr Gates, Eudora, the Bat or yourself. specifying 2 captains on the ship is asking a bit for potential problems. Frank It is difficult to fix the registry at this point. My solution is to exit from Windows to DOS mode and type: Frank scanreg /restore Frank Which can restore yesterday's copy of the registry. I'm not sure if this works on all Win98 workstations. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work on Win95 workstations. I've had no problem with Frank Eudora and other mailers (Outlook, Netscape), so I think the problem is related to The Bat. By a restore you bring everything back as it was before you added things and it says nothing about whats to blame UNLESS you export registry before and after the mess and compare line by line. Frank My configuration? IBM ThinkPad 770X with 320MB RAM, Pentium 300MHz, running Win98 (first edition). Resources are not a problem because you can recreate the windows crashing problem just after Frank reboot. In which case problem can also be the thinkpad. IBM makes nice portables but like Compaq's they are a bit temperamental. (snip the complaints). Considering that acc to your banner you are an IT professional your test methods are a bit odd. That was the first thing I noted. Nobody with computer experience would consider one hour adequate to test ANY emailer and you obviously hadnt looked any further then the basics of the thing as most 'problems' you reported werent problems, just user lazyness... Sorry to say it ... This list IS useful, there Are bugs , lack of documentation and whatever but the program runs in general quite well. All of us have wishes of things to be fixed / changed. As with any program... If you ask for advice which isnt 20 points or whatever due to not spending enough time to try to use it, read the menus, why should you expect us to do that thinking work for you? Also, you post this on Eudora and you still got that damn line length set wrong! Frank The people that create open source software have higher quality because everyone can fix things. This software should be open-sourced so that problems could get fixed. The application is Frank very far from being mature. Sure, Eudora Light isn't perfect and lacks many bells and whistles, but it is *reliable*, it uses an *existing* file format, and for many people it is relatively Frank easy to learn *basic* use (it can also do a reasonable job for filtering, address books, and fonts). I'm a software engineer for over 20 years, but I am choosing E-mail products for Frank *non-technical* people (thus, interest in products like Eudora, Outlook, Netscape, The Bat). Any programs in use you can mention which are yours? And I like the comparison, of Eudora, Outlook, Netscape, The Bat... Frank I'm sure many of you will send criticisms of my points, but you should take a serious look at the questions posed above (paragraph and bullets starting with "FYI") and the responses given over Frank the E-mail reflector. I really think you should ask yourself (1) if those responses I've received are reasonable, and (2) if those responses would encourage wide-scale use of The Bat, just as Frank Eudora has. This list isnt there to stimulate widespread use... Frank I heard about The Bat because someone forwarded E-mail to me about a story in the Register. I think the Register should be listening to this discussion ... they might not be as gushing next Frank time in their reporting. Donot worry, Mike Magee of the register was a shareware author himself... And he liked the Bat. Had NO problems in getting it to work... If you want I can send him your email as I happen to know him but I think his comments may be similar as ours! Frank Finally, I'm *not* a big fan of Eudora, but I use it because it works. There are a bunch of little quirks, but mostly stuff I can live with. Because E-mail is critical to my business, I Frank can't live with a buggy, hard-to-use problem like The Bat. Since I paid for The Bat, I'll probably keep it around to get at those occassional uuencoded files that Eudora doesn't handle well. You may find it very useful to export addressbooks out of corrupted windows... or get the mail out of Outlook/outlook express. I always have the bat with
Re[3]: Other windows crashes
Hello Roel, On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 20:31:05 +0100 GMT your local time, which was Saturday, December 25, 1999, 2:31:05 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Roel wrote: Roel does anybody know an editor that works like TB's editor? Roel (it would be a real surplus if it would also support Roel syntax-highlighting) is this a thing you need or just an enquiry? Could it be a DOS_EDITOR or has it got to be under Windows? Roel thanks already a merry christmas :-) Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: The Bat! - suggestions
Hello Steve Lamb, On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 13:34:37 -0800 GMT your local time, which was Saturday, December 25, 1999, 4:34:37 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Steve Lamb wrote: Steve Hello The Bat! developers, Steve There are some features I would like to see in your program: Steve There is a global purge and delete. Would be nice to have a global purge Steve duplicates as well for those of us (ahem) who have to merge an older message Steve base with a newer one. I agree, especially as after every cutoff I have MANY duplicates, one button/menu option to remove in every box duplicates would be useful Steve Regards, Steve Steve Lamb Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Localisation (was: Re[5]: Keyboard Shortcut to move to next unread message?)
Hello, Saturday, December 25, 1999, You wrote: Hello Thomas Fernandez, On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:22:58 +0800 GMT your local time, which was Friday, December 24, 1999, 3:22:58 PM (GMT+0700) my local time, Thomas Fernandez wrote: Thomas Hi tracer, Thomas On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:06:10 +0700GMT (12/24/1999, 16:06 +0800GMT), Thomas tracer wrote: t someone should translate the help file!! Thomas The help file is currently available in Enghlish, Russian, GErman and CZECH!! :-)) -- Bye Marek Mikus Using the best The Bat! 1.38e under the worst Windows 95 4.0 Build B Intel Celeron 266 MHz, 32 MB -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: Localisation (was: Re[5]: Keyboard Shortcut to move to next unread message?)
Hello Marek Mikus, On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 13:41:14 +0100 GMT your local time, which was Saturday, December 25, 1999, 7:41:14 PM (GMT+0700) my local time, Marek Mikus wrote: Marek Hello, Marek Saturday, December 25, 1999, You wrote: Hello Thomas Fernandez, On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:22:58 +0800 GMT your local time, which was Friday, December 24, 1999, 3:22:58 PM (GMT+0700) my local time, Thomas Fernandez wrote: Thomas Hi tracer, Thomas On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:06:10 +0700GMT (12/24/1999, 16:06 +0800GMT), Thomas tracer wrote: t someone should translate the help file!! Thomas The help file is currently available in Enghlish, Russian, GErman Marek and CZECH!! :-)) Sounds great except that my customers are either foreigners who can read English or they are Thai, Italian, French/Swiss and German. Forgetting the first category as they donot buy sw anyway, those others WILL if the help files are there as there is not much choice if you run an English windows to get an emailer with foreign language support... Isnt there an Italian tempted or any Frenchman?? Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Merry Christmas!
Hello all, on Fri, 24 Dec 1999, at 14:16:48 local time (GMT +), Mark wrote: To All Atheists...er.Hi! well, if you atheists/heathens want to celebrate something too ; celebrate the pagan part of Xmas ... the Winter Solstice ; the days are getting longer again and Spring's coming !! ;-) you can even get a christmas tree ; to greet Spring, people used to decorate their 'dwellings' with the stuff that stays green in Winter, pine fir. -- Rob ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) using The Bat! 1.38e ... Two kinds of people: Those who finish what they start and... -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Other windows crashes
At 16:34 1999-12-25 +0700, tracer wrote: Hello Frank Farance, On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 23:06:54 -0500 GMT your local time, which was Friday, December 24, 1999, 11:06:54 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Frank Farance wrote: Frank The Bat somehow corrupts the registry when you select it as the default mailer. The following test should recreate the problem: Frank 1. Install Eudora Light Frank 2. Run Eudora so it asks "should I be your default mail program?". Answer Yes. Frank 3. Install The Bat. Frank 4. Run The Bat so it asks "should I be your default mail program?". Answer Yes. Frank 5. Run Eudora again so it asks "should I be your default mail program?". Answer Yes. Frank 6. Winodws will crash hard. Well, Blame a Mr Gates, Eudora, the Bat or yourself. specifying 2 captains on the ship is asking a bit for potential problems. Frank It is difficult to fix the registry at this point. My solution is to exit from Windows to DOS mode and type: Frank scanreg /restore Frank Which can restore yesterday's copy of the registry. I'm not sure if this works on all Win98 workstations. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work on Win95 workstations. I've had no problem with Frank Eudora and other mailers (Outlook, Netscape), so I think the problem is related to The Bat. By a restore you bring everything back as it was before you added things and it says nothing about whats to blame UNLESS you export registry before and after the mess and compare line by line. Frank My configuration? IBM ThinkPad 770X with 320MB RAM, Pentium 300MHz, running Win98 (first edition). Resources are not a problem because you can recreate the windows crashing problem just after Frank reboot. In which case problem can also be the thinkpad. IBM makes nice portables but like Compaq's they are a bit temperamental. There's a difference between a bug report (which I was providing), a higher quality bug report (a method for reproducing the problem), and a bug fix (which I was not providing). You don't have the most effective attitude for getting more "The Bat!" customers because you are looking to shift blame everywhere else (including the ThinkPad!). I don't know exactly what the cause is ... yet. However, I did try to reliably reproduce the problem and report it to this list. If you are going to piss on customers that try to give higher quality bug reports, then you are going to have fewer customers. (snip the complaints). Considering that acc to your banner you are an IT professional your test methods are a bit odd. That was the first thing I noted. Nobody with computer experience would consider one hour adequate to test ANY emailer and you obviously hadnt looked any further then the basics of the thing as most 'problems' you reported werent problems, Since you probably don't test things, you are probably unware that it *can* take a short amount of time to find problems ... it usually takes longer to verify things are good. I made the following statement to one of the other members of the mailing list: if you want more customers, then you should have an idea why customers are walking away from your product. Most professionals consider their time valuable. They don't have many free hours to "play" with things. At least I'm giving you the feedback on why *this* customer has given up on the product. You might find that valuable or not. The real issue is: do you want more customers. If this were my product, I'd like to fix problems ASAP and try to understand why customers like or *dislike* my product. If I can be less emotional or defensive about the feedback I receive, then I can get to a better product. just user lazyness... Sorry to say it ... This list IS useful, there Are bugs , lack of documentation and whatever but the program runs in general quite well. All of us have wishes of things to be fixed / changed. As with any program... If you ask for advice which isnt 20 points or whatever due to not spending enough time to try to use it, read the menus, why should you expect us to do that thinking work for you? I guess you might label it as "laziness", "user stupidity", etc., ... but these are *usability problems*. In a private E-mail to one list member, I make the following statements: "In the 1970's, the same attitude existed in software: you want a powerful tool, you need a long learning curve. However, in the 1980's people adopted a better paradigm: you should be able to get to novice level is a short time, and expert level will take more effort. Help features can greatly improve the learning ... a simple rule of thumb is: (1) every feature should have a help page, (2) every operation should be described, (3) every question a typical user has should be answered. In this case, I was looking for help on "edit template" ... that was not in the Help feature." "So I wasn't
Can' t bring up list of favorite addresses
I am unable to bring up the list of favorite addresses under TB v1.38e. It had been working all along, however. Best regards, Julio mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Other windows crashes
Hi there! On 25 Dec 99, at 12:01, Frank Farance wrote about "Re: Other windows crashes": Also, you post this on Eudora and you still got that damn line length set wrong! My line length in Eudora is set just right. The problem is a *display* issue, not an E-mail generation issue. You are NOT a betatester then, for if you were, you'd have read the corresponding RFCs I'm not going to enlighten you on these, since it's clearly a waiste of *my*, _rather_valuable_, time. I don't care about yours... -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: Nature abhors a hero. For one thing, he violates the law of conservation of energy. For another, how can it be the survival of the fittest when the fittest keeps putting himself in situations where he is most likely to be creamed? --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Other windows crashes
Hi Frank, On 25 December 1999 at 12:01:43 GMT -0500 (which was 17:01 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points: FF There's a difference between a bug report (which I was providing), FF a higher quality bug report (a method for reproducing the FF problem), and a bug fix (which I was not providing). This is not the forum for submission of such reports. Use Help / Feedback / Bug Report to submit a bug report to the manufacturers. By all means, submit it to the UDL (user discussion list) for debate if you wish. FF You don't have the most effective attitude for getting more "The FF Bat!" customers We *are* the customers, not the vendors. FF If you are going to piss on customers that try to give higher FF quality bug reports, then you are going to have fewer customers. 1) You are in violation of the profanity restrictions on members of this list and, 2) I repeat, we *are* the customers. This list is run by fans and populated by fans who offer to help users having difficulty. The responses you have received are entirely appropriate and in keeping with those precepts and goals. We do not seek to actively promote TB sales here. The purpose of this list is to provide support for users having problems (like yourself) getting to grips with TB. When you submit a list of problems, all you will hear is work-around's and solutions here - "check out this feature" or "try this method" - as in any UDL or News Group dedicated to *product support*. Why, as an IT professional working in "Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure", do you find that so surprising? [excessive narrative and opinion snipped] FF Then I guess you arean't interested in increasing customers ... FF which means my comments have little value to you. If that's the way you want to interpret the responses you have received to your expressed opinions, that is your choice. FF Happy Holidays! And to you. :-) Perhaps, one day, you'll realize just what it was we all like so much about the features of TB that you denigrated to such resounding refutation. Until then, enjoy your Eudora usage. Cheers, Marck -- Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Co-moderator TBUDL / TBBETA discussion lists www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY - Using The Bat! 1.38e under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Replies Showing as Numbers ?
Hello, The Bat Users! MDP Many of us (including myself) prefer to use the %SINGLERE macro in our MDP reply templates (especially for mailing list submissions) to disable MDP this incremental "Re[n]:" behaviour. I have a question: is this a part of Netiqette? Are there any reasons for disabling this (wonderful, IMVHO :) feature except for that you don't like it (I don't know why?!)? -- Best regards, Andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.38e S/N E9230B5C under Russian Windows 98 4.10 Build A on an AMD-K5-133 with 32Mb EDO 60ns RAM and Samsung WNR-31601A 1.6Gb hard disk -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: How to suppress the S/N - was - Re[2]: privacy
Hello, The Bat Users! Another program is X-Ray (http://xraysoft.cjb.net/) do you know if there's a translation of whatever the readme.txt of that package is written in ?? (i guess it's Russian ...) KR Well, it certainly isn't English. I'm not about to run the executable KR without having any idea of what it will do, so it's not very useful to KR me at this point. KR I, too, would like a translation or a brief readme. I'm sorry, guys. I didn't see the program, and have no idea, what is written in readme. Well, in a week I plan to download it, so then I'll send you a translation, if anyone will be interested in it by that time. -- Best regards, Andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.38e S/N E9230B5C under Russian Windows 98 4.10 Build A on an AMD-K5-133 with 32Mb EDO 60ns RAM and Samsung WNR-31601A 1.6Gb hard disk -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Replies Showing as Numbers ?
On Sat, Dec 25, 1999 at 09:06:33PM +0300, Andrew K. Lovetski wrote: I have a question: is this a part of Netiqette? Are there any reasons for disabling this (wonderful, IMVHO :) feature except for that you don't like it (I don't know why?!)? Because TB! is the only client that I know of that does it. Besides, what real use does it have? Who cares how many replies there are in a thread especially since threads will most likely have multiple branches? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Other windows crashes
At 23:07 1999-12-25 +0300, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Hi there! On 25 Dec 99, at 12:01, Frank Farance wrote about "Re: Other windows crashes": Also, you post this on Eudora and you still got that damn line length set wrong! My line length in Eudora is set just right. The problem is a *display* issue, not an E-mail generation issue. You are NOT a betatester then, for if you were, you'd have read the corresponding RFCs I'm not going to enlighten you on these, since it's clearly a waiste of *my*, _rather_valuable_, time. I don't care about yours... Presumably, you mean there are some RFCs that are not satisifed. Which ones in particular? I can read the RFCs on my own, just point me to the one you think is problematic. You're right that I'm not a beta tester. I never claimed I was. I was just asking for technical support information about The Bat. Can't logical lines be of arbitrary length? Rather than getting all upset, why not just point to the technical information? -FF --- Frank Farance, Farance Inc. T: +1 212 486 4700 F: +1 212 759 1605 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.farance.com Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Regarding the RFCs
At 16:29 1999-12-25 -0500, Frank Farance wrote: At 23:07 1999-12-25 +0300, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Hi there! On 25 Dec 99, at 12:01, Frank Farance wrote about "Re: Other windows crashes": Also, you post this on Eudora and you still got that damn line length set wrong! My line length in Eudora is set just right. The problem is a *display* issue, not an E-mail generation issue. You are NOT a betatester then, for if you were, you'd have read the corresponding RFCs I'm not going to enlighten you on these, since it's clearly a waiste of *my*, _rather_valuable_, time. I don't care about yours... Presumably, you mean there are some RFCs that are not satisifed. Which ones in particular? I can read the RFCs on my own, just point me to the one you think is problematic. You're right that I'm not a beta tester. I never claimed I was. I was just asking for technical support information about The Bat. Can't logical lines be of arbitrary length? [Sorry on the prior message ... I hit Send by accident. I didn't get to include the following sentence ...] Regarding the RFCs, I'm assuming you are talking about RFC 2045, right? Doesn't RFC 2045 quoted printable permit *logical* lines of arbitrary length? -FF --- Frank Farance, Farance Inc. T: +1 212 486 4700 F: +1 212 759 1605 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.farance.com Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
Hi there! On 25 Dec 99, at 16:40, Frank Farance wrote about "Regarding the RFCs": The headers of *this* your message: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What QP you are speaking about? And now, just FYI: RFC822. Let's start from the very beginning:-) Presumably, you mean there are some RFCs that are not satisifed. Which ones in particular? I can read the RFCs on my own, just point me to the one you think is problematic. You're right that I'm not a beta tester. I never claimed I was. I was just asking for technical support information about The Bat. Can't logical lines be of arbitrary length? Regarding the RFCs, I'm assuming you are talking about RFC 2045, right? Doesn't RFC 2045 quoted printable permit *logical* lines of arbitrary length? See above. For the 7-bit encoded (_non_-QP) messages the lines cannot be arbitrary long. As for your messages, each paragraph occupies exactly one line. -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: One cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs -- but it is amazing how many eggs one can break without making a decent omelette. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Replies Showing as Numbers ?
It breaks the threading in other mail programs i.e. your re[number] will start a new thread if someone is viewing by thread. I consider it a breach of netiquette (along the lines of forcing html mail on someone), even if there is no 'formal' definition as such. Roy Saturday, December 25, 1999, 6:06:33 PM, you wrote: MDP Many of us (including myself) prefer to use the %SINGLERE macro in our MDP reply templates (especially for mailing list submissions) to disable MDP this incremental "Re[n]:" behaviour. I have a question: is this a part of Netiqette? Are there any reasons for disabling this (wonderful, IMVHO :) feature except for that you don't like it (I don't know why?!)? -- Best regards, Roy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
At 01:42 1999-12-26 +0300, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Hi there! On 25 Dec 99, at 16:40, Frank Farance wrote about "Regarding the RFCs": The headers of *this* your message: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just checked my E-mail as it leaves my SMTP server (sendmail 8.9.1) and it does *not* add that header, so it must come from some other gateway. When I check my headers from E-mail I receive from the E-mail reflector, apparently, the path is direct from my SMTP server to the E-mail list. That would mean that either (1) the TBUDL mail server is adding the header, (2) your mail server is adding it, or (3) some relay server between you and TBUDL is adding it. What QP you are speaking about? And now, just FYI: RFC822. Gee, almost all of the normative text of RFC822 (i.e., its assertions) describes message *headers*, not the message *body*. The only normative wording that is relevant is: 3. LEXICAL ANALYSIS OF MESSAGES 3.1. GENERAL DESCRIPTION A message consists of header fields and, optionally, a body. The body is simply a sequence of lines containing ASCII charac- ters. It is separated from the headers by a null line (i.e., a line with nothing preceding the CRLF). [FYI, "normative" is standards terminology for describing what is required in a conforming implementation -- in contrast to "informative" wording, which is just explanatory information.] So RFC 822 makes no restrictions on the lengths of text lines in the *body* of an E-mail message. RFC 822 *does* make restrictions on the length of lines in E-mail *headers*, but that is not the issue we're discussing. Let's start from the very beginning:-) Presumably, you mean there are some RFCs that are not satisifed. Which ones in particular? I can read the RFCs on my own, just point me to the one you think is problematic. You're right that I'm not a beta tester. I never claimed I was. I was just asking for technical support information about The Bat. Can't logical lines be of arbitrary length? Regarding the RFCs, I'm assuming you are talking about RFC 2045, right? Doesn't RFC 2045 quoted printable permit *logical* lines of arbitrary length? See above. For the 7-bit encoded (_non_-QP) messages the lines cannot be arbitrary long. As for your messages, each paragraph occupies exactly one line. RFC 822 makes no restrictions like you describe above. Lines of a *message body* can be arbitrarily long according to RFC 822. Can you point me to such restrictions in RFC 822? Over to you ... -FF --- Frank Farance, Farance Inc. T: +1 212 486 4700 F: +1 212 759 1605 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.farance.com Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
Saturday, December 25, 1999, 3:17:58 PM, Frank wrote: So RFC 822 makes no restrictions on the lengths of text lines in the *body* of an E-mail message. RFC 822 *does* make restrictions on the length of lines in E-mail *headers*, but that is not the issue we're discussing. Gah, wrap your lines, just don't argue about it. Geez. I can't believe you're trying to defend Eudora, breaker of RFCs extraordinaire. RFC 822 makes no restrictions like you describe above. Lines of a *message body* can be arbitrarily long according to RFC 822. Can you point me to such restrictions in RFC 822? Over to you ... Fine, RFC821, Page 43, section 4.5.3. text line The maximum total length of a text line including the CRLF is 1000 characters (but not counting the leading dot duplicated for transparency). Common convention is to wrap your lines, just do it. Jeez. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
At 15:28 1999-12-25 -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: Saturday, December 25, 1999, 3:17:58 PM, Frank wrote: So RFC 822 makes no restrictions on the lengths of text lines in the *body* of an E-mail message. RFC 822 *does* make restrictions on the length of lines in E-mail *headers*, but that is not the issue we're discussing. Gah, wrap your lines, just don't argue about it. Geez. I can't believe you're trying to defend Eudora, breaker of RFCs extraordinaire. I'm not trying to defend Eudora. See below. RFC 822 makes no restrictions like you describe above. Lines of a *message body* can be arbitrarily long according to RFC 822. Can you point me to such restrictions in RFC 822? Over to you ... Fine, RFC821, Page 43, section 4.5.3. text line The maximum total length of a text line including the CRLF is 1000 characters (but not counting the leading dot duplicated for transparency). True. But I was mainly interested in "logical" lines ... which can be arbitrarily long, right? That's the way I read RFC 2045. I only referenced RFC 822 because Alexander said that long lines violated RFC 822. In one of my prior messages, I suggested that the focus is really RFC 2045. Common convention is to wrap your lines, just do it. Jeez. Wrapping lines is *one* convention and not the only one. I used to do that, but I found that many messages got messed up when people copied and pasted my words. Really, for almost 20 years I did what you describe. I've come around to thinking that the paragraph separator is good for *text* (and people seem to have fewer copy/paste problems, too, ... something to think about with these long lines). Natually, if I'm sending a snippet of code to some one I'll send it as is (usually, margins are less then 80 columns). The only time the very-long-lines convention is a problem is during *display* ... which is why one of my original points claimed this was a *display* issue for The Bat, not an RFC issue. Alexander is the one who started the claim that this was all an RFC issue ... I just think it's a display preference ... and I hope The Bat will include this type of preference in future releases. Both conventions are useful. I happen to use very-long-lines for text, and properly wrapped lines for code. -FF --- Frank Farance, Farance Inc. T: +1 212 486 4700 F: +1 212 759 1605 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.farance.com Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
Saturday, December 25, 1999, 3:49:26 PM, Frank wrote: Wrapping lines is *one* convention and not the only one. I used to do that, but I found that many messages got messed up when people copied and pasted my words. Really, for almost 20 years I did what you describe. I've come around to thinking that the paragraph separator is good for *text* (and people seem to have fewer copy/paste problems, too, ... something to think about with these long lines). Natually, if I'm sending a snippet of code to some one I'll send it as is (usually, margins are less then 80 columns). The only time the very-long-lines convention is a problem is during *display* ... which is why one of my original points claimed this was a *display* issue for The Bat, not an RFC issue. Alexander is the one who started the claim that this was all an RFC issue ... I just think it's a display preference ... and I hope The Bat will include this type of preference in future releases. Both conventions are useful. I happen to use very-long-lines for text, and properly wrapped lines for code. No, they are not since, as this message should show, long lines are quoted as is, not wrapped, as they should be. It means by using long lines in text you are forcing the people to rewrap everything every time. That is considered rude. DO NOT DO IT! -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
ðÒÉ×ÅÔ, Frank! ÷ 18:17, 25 Dec 99, ÔÙ ÉÚ×ÏÌÉÌ ÓÏÞÉÎÉÔØ ÐÏÓÌÁÎÉÅ "Re: Regarding the RFCs": The headers of *this* your message: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just checked my E-mail as it leaves my SMTP server (sendmail 8.9.1) and it does *not* add that header, so it Gotcha! see RFC2045--2047. The Content-transfer-encoding: field is *required* for a MIME message, or, better to say, if there's no such field it's *assumed* that it has "7bit" value. OTOH, *if* your message is in Quoted Printable, it's *absolutely required* that Content-transfer-encoding: be set to "Quoted Printable". Without this, your message is just plain garbage. That would mean that either (1) the TBUDL mail server is adding the header, (2) your mail server is adding it, or (3) some relay server between you and TBUDL is adding it. Doesn't matter. Since it's *not* QP when it leaves your SMTP, it will *never* become one whatever server it passes... -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: If you have to travel on a Titanic, why not go first-class? --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
For Frank Fragrance especially:-)
Quote from RFC 2045 follows: 8--- 2.7. 7bit Data "7bit data" refers to data that is all represented as relatively short lines with 998 octets or less between CRLF line separation sequences [RFC-821]. No octets with decimal values greater than 127 are allowed and neither are NULs (octets with decimal value 0). CR (decimal value 13) and LF (decimal value 10) octets only occur as part of CRLF line separation sequences. 8--- Your message _bodies_ represent the 7-bit data, as proved in my two previous postings, and should follow this! -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: The specialist learns more and more about less and less until, finally, he knows everything about nothing; whereas the generalist learns less and less about more and more until, finally, he knows nothing about everything. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Merry Christmas!
Hi Rob, Saturday, December 25, 1999, 1:28:28 PM, you wrote: R Hello all, R on Fri, 24 Dec 1999, at 14:16:48 local time (GMT +), Mark wrote: To All Atheists...er.Hi! R well, if you atheists/heathens want to celebrate something too ; celebrate R the pagan part of Xmas ... the Winter Solstice ; the days are getting R longer again and Spring's coming !! ;-) R you can even get a christmas tree ; to greet Spring, people used to R decorate their 'dwellings' with the stuff that stays green in Winter, pine R fir. I think you mistake atheists (who do not believe in god) to pagans who believe in nature gods i.e. Sun, Moon, Earth etc. *We* do not feel the need to celebrate or believe in anything, however keeping in the spirit of your Christian/Pagan/Moslem celebrations I will go away and dance around the nearest tree:-) -- Best regards, Mark Using The Bat! 1.38e under Windows 98 4 10 Build 1998 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Merry Christmas!
Saturday, December 25, 1999, 4:39:56 PM, Mark wrote: in the spirit of your Christian/Pagan/Moslem celebrations I will go away and dance around the nearest tree:-) T'hell with that. GIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMME *Cough* :) -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: SOT: Y2K and possible virus problems
Ok, a few remarks for anyone who installs Dr Web (keeping in mind that I had it running since months in the English version...). On install it seems to hang for ages. However its working to make certain files for each of your hard disks, so let it go. In my case it took a very long time as my system has problems anyway. And I have many big hard disks to scan. The main module, dr Web, has an English switch in the main menu. Spider has English switch via the bar, right click. The third module, ie the Dos box which can pop up with warnings, has a setting (I think) in Drweb32.ini, which is in the drweb directory. [DOS] LngFileName="Russian.DWL" Now ac to the docs every language has an entry but it sounds like the English is the real default as I checked my zipped original info and it hasnt got that entry at all. So I removed this and have to find out if this fixes my Dos Russian to something which I can read. Donot forget I havent got any dos/windows installed Russian fonts... Now having been to the website, to see whats on offer on has to go to the Russian site and there is a release document 40 mentioned. Following that link one sees this whole offer described and while not perfectly clear there is also mendtioned ADINF which as far as I understand is ALSO on free offer. I know Alex doesnt seem to use it, I do (g) Now this in my opinion is quite an interesting and useful part of the whole package as it checks every time what files where changed/deleted/directories/files added etc, depending on different kind of crc's calculated.. WITH selection options and after which it doesnt scan the whole drive, just whats changed. In short asuming you scanned the whole drives properly once one will get the option to check whats changed, which on my drives saves a long time as I have about 24 gb of diskspace in use I also use under Dos the Norman AV part as its good to snapshot my MBR's and other essential data in case it gets changed and I want it back. Their old Thunderbyte under Dos had similar capabilities but more powerful but was alas abandonded. Anyway, I hope this helps others, as a product its recommended. But you have to be able to read it (g) as I totally hung my system by pressing the wrong button on that dos box. Anyway, I will be off to download that ADINF as my previous version expired last week and I was still in the process of sorting some system problems out due to a malfunctioning powersupply! What is not clear to me though as I donot see it mentioned anywhere, is if this special version has to be registered as a downloaded free copy or if one can just keep using it. Ie, does one apply for a special key?? That needs someone (Alex ??) who can read Russian properly! My experience is 35 years old from my university period and alas was more math/physics and chemistry papers reading oriented. Other thing it may mention somewhere but I donot see sofar is that every time you update the dignatures, a pair of files is added and that if the basic database of the program changes all the updates it doesnt need anymore as they are in the base, will get flagged as not being able to be loaded during start. Its in the logs... Anyway for those who have never used this package, I have a special directory with zips containing virus strains, and its a fairly compleate collection as I was involved with one of the Av companies in testing and sending them new samples. I have about 1 of them sitting there and Norton/McAfee find about 6100, AVP and Dr WEB come very close and find about 9500-9600. Unique strains, not one of the many clones they give different names. Which is why Dr Web finds so 'few' compared to those who count every minor variation as a virus even if the same scanner strings will find them... Obviously it should be noted that some virus strains are detected due to running and changing file times to fractional seconds and silly things like that to prevent a virus from trying to reinfect an already infected file. Whatever, Dr Web and AVP get very similar results and I would trust them a lot more then Norton/McAfee to catch what I donot want to run. Note that all of these products have fairly bad trojan discovery rates. In general they catch about 10-20 percent of those as there are many variants so if your internet security is of importance, try another beautiful product like AtGUARD or/and in combination with a proper firewall. Its funny to see if you selfinfect your system how many callers you suddenly get wanting to visit. Alex, great thanks to letting us know, now please tell me do I have somewhere to register to let them KNOW I run this free version? Or is that in the included key files... Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL
Re: For Frank Farance especially:-)
At 03:06 1999-12-26 +0300, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Quote from RFC 2045 follows: 8--- 2.7. 7bit Data "7bit data" refers to data that is all represented as relatively short lines with 998 octets or less between CRLF line separation sequences [RFC-821]. No octets with decimal values greater than 127 are allowed and neither are NULs (octets with decimal value 0). CR (decimal value 13) and LF (decimal value 10) octets only occur as part of CRLF line separation sequences. 8--- Your message _bodies_ represent the 7-bit data, as proved in my two previous postings, and should follow this! Yes, but there is a difference between "logical" lines described in RFC 2045 (as extended by "=" characters) and "physical" lines, which are described by RFC 821. Please re-read my E-mails and you'll see that I've been referring to RFC 2045 and *logical* lines ... not RFC 822 (as you had suggested the E-mails violate, which they don't) and not RFC 821 (because I've referred to "logical" lines). -FF --- Frank Farance, Farance Inc. T: +1 212 486 4700 F: +1 212 759 1605 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.farance.com Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
At 15:54 1999-12-25 -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: Saturday, December 25, 1999, 3:49:26 PM, Frank wrote: Wrapping lines is *one* convention and not the only one. I used to do that, but I found that many messages got messed up when people copied and pasted my words. Really, for almost 20 years I did what you describe. I've come around to thinking that the paragraph separator is good for *text* (and people seem to have fewer copy/paste problems, too, ... something to think about with these long lines). Natually, if I'm sending a snippet of code to some one I'll send it as is (usually, margins are less then 80 columns). The only time the very-long-lines convention is a problem is during *display* ... which is why one of my original points claimed this was a *display* issue for The Bat, not an RFC issue. Alexander is the one who started the claim that this was all an RFC issue ... I just think it's a display preference ... and I hope The Bat will include this type of preference in future releases. Both conventions are useful. I happen to use very-long-lines for text, and properly wrapped lines for code. No, they are not since, as this message should show, long lines are quoted as is, not wrapped, as they should be. It means by using long lines in text you are forcing the people to rewrap everything every time. That is considered rude. FYI, here's what long lines look line when you respond to them in another mailer. True. But I was mainly interested in "logical" lines ... which can be arbitrarily long, right? That's the way I read RFC 2045. I only referenced RFC 822 because Alexander said that long lines violated RFC 822. In one of my prior messages, I suggested that the focus is really RFC 2045. It's really the *display* issue in The Bat. No one is forced to re-wrap ... only users of The Bat need to re-wrap. -FF --- Frank Farance, Farance Inc. T: +1 212 486 4700 F: +1 212 759 1605 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.farance.com Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
At 02:54 1999-12-26 +0300, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: ðÒÉ×ÅÔ, Frank! ÷ 18:17, 25 Dec 99, ÔÙ ÉÚ×ÏÌÉÌ ÓÏÞÉÎÉÔØ ÐÏÓÌÁÎÉÅ "Re: Regarding the RFCs": The headers of *this* your message: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just checked my E-mail as it leaves my SMTP server (sendmail 8.9.1) and it does *not* add that header, so it Gotcha! see RFC2045--2047. The Content-transfer-encoding: field is *required* for a MIME message, or, better to say, if there's no such field it's *assumed* that it has "7bit" value. It's not really a "gotcha" since I've been trying for several E-mails to get you focused on RFC 2045. And besides, RFC 2045 *does* allow long *logical* lines ... something I've said for several E-mails. Another point I was making was that the header you point to was added by some other server, not mine. OTOH, *if* your message is in Quoted Printable, it's *absolutely required* that Content-transfer-encoding: be set to "Quoted Printable". Without this, your message is just plain garbage. That would mean that either (1) the TBUDL mail server is adding the header, (2) your mail server is adding it, or (3) some relay server between you and TBUDL is adding it. Doesn't matter. Since it's *not* QP when it leaves your SMTP, it will *never* become one whatever server it passes... That's not true. Some of the SMTP servers convert to/from quoted printable, so it is possible that message headers get changed, added, or deleted ... sendmail 8.9.x does this. -FF --- Frank Farance, Farance Inc. T: +1 212 486 4700 F: +1 212 759 1605 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.farance.com Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Other windows crashes
Hello Alexander V. Kiselev, On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 23:07:09 +0300 GMT your local time, which was Sunday, December 26, 1999, 3:07:09 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Alexander Hi there! Alexander On 25 Dec 99, at 12:01, Frank Farance wrote Alexander about "Re: Other windows crashes": Also, you post this on Eudora and you still got that damn line length set wrong! My line length in Eudora is set just right. The problem is a *display* issue, not an E-mail generation issue. Alexander You are NOT a betatester then, for if you were, you'd have Alexander read the corresponding RFCs I'm not going to enlighten you Alexander on these, since it's clearly a waiste of *my*, _rather_valuable_, Alexander time. I don't care about yours... Agreed... and closed minded to boot... Besides Alex, watch your waiste(g) during this festival period! have fun your differential equations and beer bottles (g) Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Regarding the RFCs
Hello Frank Farance, On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 18:49:26 -0500 GMT your local time, which was Sunday, December 26, 1999, 6:49:26 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Frank Farance wrote: Frank At 15:28 1999-12-25 -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: Saturday, December 25, 1999, 3:17:58 PM, Frank wrote: Frank Both conventions are useful. I happen to use very-long-lines for text, and properly wrapped lines for code. But people donot like READING them. If you make docs for a program that way where everybody has to start reformatting the text, you would also get complaints. I donot want to shift my screen left/right just to read mail from ONE person who insists on his own screensize different from anyone else. Frank -FF Frank --- Frank Frank Farance, Farance Inc. T: +1 212 486 4700 F: +1 212 759 1605 Frank mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.farance.com Frank Standards, products, services for the Global Information Infrastructure Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Atn: (OT) Douglas Hinds
Sunday, December 26, 1999 Hello Douglas.. Sorry, sofar 2 emails bounced back from your account. No idea if that server has a problem... Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e NO MICROSOFT VIRUS INFECTIONS mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
Saturday, December 25, 1999, 5:41:15 PM, Frank wrote: FYI, here's what long lines look line when you respond to them in another mailer. Yup, wrong. When quoting it should not automatically rewrap. It's really the *display* issue in The Bat. No one is forced to re-wrap ... only users of The Bat need to re-wrap. TB! users, mutt users, pine users, PMMail users, etc, etc, etc.. NOW CUT IT OUT, DAMMIT!! -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: SOT: Y2K and possible virus problems
Hi there! On 26 Dec 99, at 8:01, tracer wrote about "Re[2]: SOT: Y2K and possible virus ": Okay, this happened to become a lo-o-o-ng message, so to those who aren't interested in Dr.Web: just skip it. Nothing TB- related inside:-) On install it seems to hang for ages. However its working to make certain files for each of your hard disks, so let it go. Seems to depend on the overall HDD space. I have much fewer of it currently then you say you do, hence different results:-) The main module, dr Web, has an English switch in the main menu. Spider has English switch via the bar, right click. BTW, Spider isn't designed for NT. It won't be installed if you run NT. It's supposed to start to support NT in the future. Right now, one might use Adinf under NT instead of Spider. The third module, ie the Dos box which can pop up with warnings, it's drwebwcl.exe, CLI version of the program. has a setting (I think) in Drweb32.ini, which is in the drweb directory. [DOS] LngFileName="Russian.DWL" Just tested: delete this line, and it will switch to English:-) Sorry for inconvenience, but I told you it was an offer for *Russians*:- ) Time to learn Russian, yeah? Now having been to the website, to see whats on offer on has to go to the Russian site and there is a release document 40 mentioned. Following that link one sees this whole offer described and while not perfectly clear there is also mendtioned ADINF which as far as I understand is ALSO on free offer. Yes. I know Alex doesnt seem to use it, I do (g) Correct. Didn't evem d/l it. Now this in my opinion is quite an interesting and useful part of the whole package as it checks every time what files where Adinf is a separate program. It's made by the people other then the Dr.Web team. While I *do* trust Dr.Web programmers, I personally don't trust Adinf team much (a couple of years ago this proggy used to be quite... well, buggy). Since given the current power of Spider I don't need it, I keep refusing to check how it works now. They say, it's pretty good when Word- Macro attacks are concerned, but alas I don't use Word, too:-) Anyway, I hope this helps others, as a product its recommended. But you have to be able to read it (g) as I totally hung my system by pressing the wrong button on that dos box. Seems to be solved now:-) What is not clear to me though as I donot see it mentioned anywhere, is if this special version has to be registered as a downloaded free copy or if one can just keep using it. Ie, does one apply for a special key?? As for Dr.Web, this "christmas" version will work _literally_ forever, it doesn't require any kind of key and has no timelimits built in. But note, that Dr.Web team releases *new* executable about once in every 1.5 months, so in February this version will no longer be the fresh one:-) Nevertheless, it will *still support* the (always free) virus database updates *even then*. The vendors release these updates weekly usually, then, when the new version is released, these updates together with the old main database form fresh "main virus database", which's released together with the new version of the executables. After that the "cycle" is repeated, i.e., new updates are released and so on. So if you are not interested in the new features/fixes the new versions of executables contain, you can safely d/load only the updates (for free:-)). The format of the database/updates isn't changed from version to version, hence the older versions work well with the virus updates intended for newer ones. Well, hope you understood all this:-) Means, you can use the program for free from now on:-)) As for the Adinf, I really don't know. Have to check this out for you. But tomorrow:-) That needs someone (Alex ??) who can read Russian properly! My experience is 35 years old from my university period and alas was more math/physics and chemistry papers reading oriented. Other thing it may mention somewhere but I donot see sofar is that every time you update the dignatures, a pair of files is added and that if the basic database of the program changes all the updates it doesnt need anymore as they are in the base, will get flagged as not being able to be loaded during start. Its in the logs... I've explained this above. Provided that they don't change the format of databases, the updating process looks like: version 1.15 with main virus database - an update to the virus database (single file, usually a couple of kbytes, that's put to the same directory and is autoloaded by the program on startup) - another update it's weekly ... version 1.16 with it's own main database, which's in fact the database of 1.15 plus all the updates to that one that were released sofar - again weekly updates.. till version 1.17:-) So if you *pay* them for 1.16 when it's released, you'll no longer need the updates to
Re: Re[2]: Other windows crashes
Hi there! On 26 Dec 99, at 9:09, tracer wrote about "Re[2]: Other windows crashes": Alexander You are NOT a betatester then, for if you were, you'd have Alexander read the corresponding RFCs I'm not going to enlighten you Alexander on these, since it's clearly a waiste of *my*, _rather_valuable_, Alexander time. I don't care about yours... Agreed... and closed minded to boot... Besides Alex, watch your waiste(g) during this festival period! have fun your differential equations and beer bottles (g) Okay, I really should stop with this, I feel... I cannot explain this Mr. Fragrance that he doesn't understand what he's saying. It's definitely a problem of IQ: either his, or mine. For you, listmembers, to decide:-) -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: All inanimate objects can move just enough to get in your way --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
Hi there! On 25 Dec 99, at 20:54, Frank Farance wrote about "Re: Regarding the RFCs": Doesn't matter. Since it's *not* QP when it leaves your SMTP, it will *never* become one whatever server it passes... That's not true. Some of the SMTP servers convert to/from quoted printable, so it is possible that message headers get changed, added, or deleted ... sendmail 8.9.x does this. Better to say, can be set up to do so... Think I don't know about this? Poor guy:-) -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: Remember, Speed kills! Try Windows to relax --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Regarding the RFCs
Hi there! On 25 Dec 99, at 20:41, Frank Farance wrote about "Re: Regarding the RFCs": FYI, here's what long lines look line when you respond to them in another mailer. True. But I was mainly interested in "logical" lines ... which can be arbitrarily long, right? That's the way I read RFC 2045. I only referenced RFC 822 because Alexander said that long lines violated RFC 822. In one of my prior messages, I suggested that the focus is really RFC 2045. The same long line, as far as I can see:-) -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: Double your drive space! Delete Windows! --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: For Frank Farance especially:-)
On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:46:25 +0300, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: [] They clearly do. If you don't understand this simple fact, I'm terribly pity about you:-) Ok, he unsubscribed. Are we going to stop picking at his remains or what? :) -- Ali Martin | Using The Bat! v1.38e mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6) [ Oxymoron: Science Fiction. ] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Other windows crashes
Hello Frank Farance, On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 12:01:43 -0500 GMT your local time, which was Sunday, December 26, 1999, 12:01:43 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Frank Farance wrote: (snipped) Your problem is much more likely to be a totally local problem due to a windows corruption then one just caused by the Bat. Try producing that same error on a different machine and then you have a better idea if its computer specific or not. And then the real problem can still be windows, Eudora or the bat or even another program. If you had made an export of the registry before and after the mess produced and then run a comparison between them (several programs will do that) , then very likely with a bit of luck maybe a very limited number of changes would be found, indicating what the problem could be. Registry problems cannot be easily be analysed long distance. And the best person to find the essential facts is with the computer it runs on, ie you. This is not trying to tell you to fix it yourself. But try finding whats changed and then you may get a useful answer. Frank Awareness of human factors issues can make systems more usable ... Frank you have to expect that people *do* have ways in which they are already comfortable with ... Frank and you try to accommodate those Frank varieties. No, thats why there are different products. You can choose. Besides whats comfortable to one user may be totally uncomfortable for others. Accomodating products to the users can be fatal. I remember in the 80's this Chinese guy in Singapore who was from Shang Hai like a certain Mr Wang and thus selected a Wang computer. He wanted to run HIS style of chinese book keeping on it. A year later he was out of business and everybody had a big headache as it was just impossible. If he had been willing to change some of his methods to those more suitable for a computer I myself had one time this problem where they told me HOW to write the program instead of what they wanted the end result to be. The one time I ever did that as it ended up being a horrible thing in the end where everything was totally ilogic. When they guy left who pushed it through I dumped it as it was totally unsupportable. Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: SOT: Y2K and possible virus problems
Hello Alexander V. Kiselev, On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:38:13 +0300 GMT your local time, which was Sunday, December 26, 1999, 9:38:13 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Alexander Hi there! thanks, I guess I better install some fonts (g). I need it anyway as one of my cd's has cheats for games and my kids want to play them. Lucasart's Pink tentacle and stuff like that and I have the walkthroughs , allas in Russian. Anyway THAT stuff I can read (g). Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: For Frank Farance especially:-)
Hello Ali Martin, On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 22:09:42 -0500 GMT your local time, which was Sunday, December 26, 1999, 10:09:42 AM (GMT+0700) my local time, Ali Martin wrote: Ali On Sun, 26 Dec 1999 05:46:25 +0300, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Ali [] They clearly do. If you don't understand this simple fact, I'm terribly pity about you:-) Ali Ok, he unsubscribed. Are we going to stop picking at his remains or Ali what? :) I would love to see a program he wrote (g) Anyway for YOU the above phrase is a bit funny Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38e mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
