Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi there! On 21 Nov 99, at 23:30, tracer wrote about "Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah": Alexander But these are *Russian* bears:-)). They know! Those Alexander Americans are really funny, they (provided that they know Alexander *what and where* Russia is anyway) still seem to believe it's Alexander common for the wild bears to walk down the streets in Russia:-) Alexander At least I've already seen 3 such guys (all of them Americans) Alexander who were *really* deadly surprised not to find those bears in Alexander the streets. and a friend of mine now working in the Alexander Silicon valley met 2 other Americans, who seemed to believe Alexander that Russia is located somewhere next to Venezuela:-)) whats wrong with that? Nothing in particular:-))) At least, it leaves *me* calm:-) They tested students in the past on their chemistry knowledge and according to some Sodium Chloride was a green gas Well, well. AFAIK this summer there was a heated discussion in Oxford whether to teach their math students what "uniformly continuous function" is or NOT:-))) ROTFLMAO, as you say:-) This is exactly what *our* students are taught in the *very* first semester:-)) But you are missing out on a tourist attraction, train some bears and get the tourists to visit them. Obviously wanting repeat visits you cannot let those bears eat them (at least not all of them) Interesting idea, that:-) By the way a friend has an internet cafee and yesterday his internet browser looked 'odd' he said. Some smart visitor had switched him to the Russian character set... Apparently it was Russian:-) It's somehow a thing *every* Russian does first of all approaching *any* web browser anywhere:-) SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) -- Thought for the day: Friends don't let friends use Windows. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi all, Steve Lamb wrote: snip Alt-F1, login, mutt; Alt-F2, login, mutt; in the mutt#1 open one IMAP account, in the mutt#2 open another. What else do you want? That is two copies of mutt. Would you be as happy with TB! if you had to open a separate copy of it for each account that you had? I know I wouldn't. I did this with Forte' Agent and disliked it a lot. -- Regards, -=Ali=- Reality is nothing but a collective hunch. ** Using The Bat! v1.38 Beta/2 [-] Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 6) ** -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi there! On 21 Nov 99, at 14:34, tracer wrote about "Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah": Alexander Well, -5 (C), if you *really* wanted to know. And the wild polar Alexander bears walking here and there:-)) Growling and eating people Alexander bg Doesnt matter as long as they know WHOM to eat Alexander Americans, whom else?:-))) How do your bears know the difference But these are *Russian* bears:-)). They know! Those Americans are really funny, they (provided that they know *what and where* Russia is anyway) still seem to believe it's common for the wild bears to walk down the streets in Russia:-) At least I've already seen 3 such guys (all of them Americans) who were *really* deadly surprised not to find those bears in the streets. and a friend of mine now working in the Silicon valley met 2 other Americans, who seemed to believe that Russia is located somewhere next to Venezuela:-)) SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) -- Thought for the day: I am in total control, but don't tell my wife. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Sunday, November 21, 1999 Hello Alexander, Sunday, Sunday, November 21, 1999, you wrote: Alexander Hi there! Alexander On 21 Nov 99, at 14:34, tracer wrote Alexander about "Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah": Alexander Well, -5 (C), if you *really* wanted to know. And the wild polar Alexander bears walking here and there:-)) Growling and eating people Alexander bg Doesnt matter as long as they know WHOM to eat Alexander Americans, whom else?:-))) How do your bears know the difference Alexander But these are *Russian* bears:-)). They know! Those Alexander Americans are really funny, they (provided that they know Alexander *what and where* Russia is anyway) still seem to believe it's Alexander common for the wild bears to walk down the streets in Russia:-) Alexander At least I've already seen 3 such guys (all of them Americans) Alexander who were *really* deadly surprised not to find those bears in Alexander the streets. and a friend of mine now working in the Alexander Silicon valley met 2 other Americans, who seemed to believe Alexander that Russia is located somewhere next to Venezuela:-)) whats wrong with that? They tested students in the past on their chemistry knowledge and according to some Sodium Chloride was a green gas But you are missing out on a tourist attraction, train some bears and get the tourists to visit them. Obviously wanting repeat visits you cannot let those bears eat them (at least not all of them) By the way a friend has an internet cafee and yesterday his internet browser looked 'odd' he said. Some smart visitor had switched him to the Russian character set... They must have been trying to fix it for hours so when I visited for a refreshing beer it meant serious (g) work... Alexander SY, Alex Alexander (St.Petersburg, Russia) Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/2 mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi there! On 20 Nov 99, at 14:39, tracer wrote about "Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah": who has any details about what will be in v2?? RIT labs:-))) SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) -- Thought for the day: You cannot have a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi there! On 19 Nov 99, at 17:52, Steve Lamb wrote about "Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah an": Your machine is three days fast and I can never find your messages until after someone has replied already and I go looking. Kindly check. ;-) Okay, okay, it's been mea culpa:-) Just the new beta of WinEdt (2K) came out, and I've been digging in registry, and finally I wanted to check it's working bg, and then I forgot to move the time back:-) Hope you understand:-))) Needless to say more, that is:-) Pst... ask him how the weather is. :) Well, -5 (C), if you *really* wanted to know. And the wild polar bears walking here and there:-)) Growling and eating people bg SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) -- Thought for the day: If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Saturday, November 20, 1999 Hello Thomas, Saturday, Saturday, November 20, 1999, you wrote: Thomas Hi Steve, Thomas on Saturday, November 20, 1999, 8:37:02 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote: SL MUA stands for Mail Use Agent or Messaging User Agent. MTA is for Mail SL Transfer agent. There is a third, MDA, which stands for Mail Delivery Agent. Thomas [very good explanation skipped} Thomas For all those who have put Steve on the kill filter, please note that Thomas you've missed something very educational. SL A lot of people have argued that an editor and a spell checker (for SL example) are required in producing mail and thus should be reimplemented by SL the authors of each individual email client. A lot of other people argue that SL separate tasks should be handled by separate programs. So how do I reconcile SL the need to combine some tasks (MUA/MTA/MDA) but not others (editor/spell SL checker) into an email client? Thomas FYI rumours have it that the well-advertised Version 2 will have an Thomas option "use external editor". I think you will agree with me that Thomas this would make everybody happy. who has any details about what will be in v2?? Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.37 Beta/3 mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi there! On 19 Nov 99, at 17:37, Steve Lamb wrote about "Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah an": The text editor would then not implement a spell check but, The only programs under WinDOS that do exactly this (but leave no choice to the users) is... guess what? Office+Outlook:- ) Quite the contrary, PMMail. ;) Nope, PMMail will work with English only (well, actually I don't know, but it *definitely* won't work with Russian, it's got defective code that won't accept anything then western unicode script correctly, and for Russian one needs cyrillic). This would free up time for the authors of the mail client to work on the mail client instead of reimplementing an editor In theory, I'm on your side. But this is all Linux ideology, and that's why Linux is great. But we live under WinDOS here:-((( In theory it is great and in practice it is, too. Sure, we live in WinDOS here but it doesn't mean we cannot take the high points of the other world and incorporate them here. My point was: HOW? The answer to this "how?" needs to tell: (a) what protocol should be used; (b) how many third-party apps will be supported by it; (c) what functionality will this protocol provide. My own point is that DDE would almost fit, but it isn't supported by the majority of software vendors. Like I said, I like how TB! and PMMail handle multiple accounts. There is nothing as elegant and power in the Unix world. I'm certainly not one to sit on that side of the fence and say "Hey, that's great in Windows, but we live under Linux." Linux: Alt-F1, login, mutt; Alt-F2, login, mutt; in the mutt#1 open one IMAP account, in the mutt#2 open another. What else do you want? I simply don't understand, *what* multiaccount functionality you need when working with IMAP when the *account itself* stays on the server? Finally, when using IMAP the basic idea is that you need only *one* single account, since you're able to reach it from everywhere... Or are you speaking about the "identities" actually? Take mutt and do what? Btw, you might want to check the many, MANY posts I've made on the topic on www.deja.com before answering that. Chances are, I've already addressed what you may me thinking of several times over. Needless to say, mutt, while an excellent single-user, single-account MUA is utterly outclassed compared to PMMail/TB! when it comes to multiple accounts. Ok, i'll look it through as time permits. And now go and check the url I've provided above:-) But under WinDOS this won't help you a lot, will it? Cool, postie. Actually, I used postie to send out turns for a Stars! game that I hosted quite a while ago. That and a batch file was all I need to send out news postings and turn files for my game of 5-6 people. One could do a lot with postie and perl if one was so inclined. Yup, that was my point also. But that would require Perl. Although there exists Perl for dosish systems, it lacks in power considerably compared to how it can be used on Linux box. Just because the winDOS is organized this way, and you can do little or nothing about it. SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) -- Thought for the day: Everyone should believe in something -- I believe I'll have another drink. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
In Reference to "(SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things..." From Steve Lamb: SL Friday, November 19, 1999, 5:40:07 PM, Thomas wrote: Hi Alexander, on Tuesday, November 23, 1999, 9:23:01 AM GMT+0800, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: [...] Your machine is three days fast and I can never find your messages until after someone has replied already and I go looking. Kindly check. ;-) SL Pst... ask him how the weather is. :) .and what the winning lottery numbers for tonight will be! -- - Nick Using The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1 under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Friday, November 19, 1999, 5:40:07 PM, Thomas wrote: Hi Alexander, on Tuesday, November 23, 1999, 9:23:01 AM GMT+0800, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: [...] Your machine is three days fast and I can never find your messages until after someone has replied already and I go looking. Kindly check. ;-) Pst... ask him how the weather is. :) -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Sunday, November 21, 1999 Hello Alexander, Saturday, Saturday, November 20, 1999, you wrote: Alexander Hi there! Alexander On 19 Nov 99, at 17:52, Steve Lamb wrote Alexander about "Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah an": Your machine is three days fast and I can never find your messages until after someone has replied already and I go looking. Kindly check. ;-) Alexander Okay, okay, it's been mea culpa:-) Just the new beta of WinEdt Alexander (2K) came out, and I've been digging in registry, and finally I Alexander wanted to check it's working bg, and then I forgot to move Alexander the time back:-) Hope you understand:-))) Needless to say Alexander more, that is:-) I understand (g) Pst... ask him how the weather is. :) Alexander Well, -5 (C), if you *really* wanted to know. And the wild polar Alexander bears walking here and there:-)) Growling and eating people Alexander bg Doesnt matter as long as they know WHOM to eat Alexander SY, Alex Alexander (St.Petersburg, Russia) Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/1 mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi there! On 21 Nov 99, at 2:55, tracer wrote about "Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah": who has any details about what will be in v2?? Alexander RIT labs:-))) you mean we have to feed them vodka to tell us?? Well, it's a good idea (tm):-) SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) -- Titanics Generalized Iceberg Theorem: Seven-eighths of everything can't be seen. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Saturday, November 20, 1999, 7:08:41 AM, Alexander wrote: Nope, PMMail will work with English only (well, actually I don't know, but it *definitely* won't work with Russian, it's got defective code that won't accept anything then western unicode script correctly, and for Russian one needs cyrillic). But PMMail allows you to use an external editor and the external editor, say, vim, for example, would let you pick what spell checker to use. My point was: HOW? The answer to this "how?" needs to tell: (a) what protocol should be used; "Send to the editor with a string to tell it where the file is" normally works. Has for the past 20-30 years on Unix at least. ;) (b) how many third-party apps will be supported by it; The above? 100% (c) what functionality will this protocol provide. Functionality which lets you use pretty much anything there since data is data. My own point is that DDE would almost fit, but it isn't supported by the majority of software vendors. Meanwhile the file system is support by 100%. :) Alt-F1, login, mutt; Alt-F2, login, mutt; in the mutt#1 open one IMAP account, in the mutt#2 open another. What else do you want? That is two copies of mutt. Would you be as happy with TB! if you had to open a separate copy of it for each account that you had? I know I wouldn't. Or are you speaking about the "identities" actually? No. I can't stand that paradigm that Eudora has imposed upon the masses. Just to keep everything separated out one needs to build filters up the wazoo. :( Yup, that was my point also. But that would require Perl. Although there exists Perl for dosish systems, it lacks in power considerably compared to how it can be used on Linux box. Not really. That is only because DOS lacks the standard unix utils that some perl programmers have come to rely upon. Personally I program as much in perl as I can, leaving the system() and exec() calls only for things I really need. Generally those are other scripts we have written, not the standard utils. Just because the winDOS is organized this way, and you can do little or nothing about it. Again, I disagree. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Sunday, November 21, 1999 Hello Alexander, Sunday, Sunday, November 21, 1999, you wrote: Alexander Hi there! Alexander On 21 Nov 99, at 2:47, tracer wrote Alexander about "Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah": Pst... ask him how the weather is. :) Alexander Well, -5 (C), if you *really* wanted to know. And the wild polar Alexander bears walking here and there:-)) Growling and eating people Alexander bg Doesnt matter as long as they know WHOM to eat Alexander Americans, whom else?:-))) How do your bears know the difference Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.38 Beta/1 mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
(SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
MUA stands for Mail Use Agent or Messaging User Agent. MTA is for Mail Transfer agent. There is a third, MDA, which stands for Mail Delivery Agent. Now, as always, I'm sure someone like Alex could come up and point out where I am wrong, but this is my understanding of these terms, why I use them in the way that I do and how they shape my thoughts and views on the whole technical and social mechanisms of email. Each of the three terms, MUA, MTA, MDA, describe not programs, but roles. This is an important distinction since some programs could easily be several of the different roles. The MUA is the role of being an interface to the user. It allows the user to read and prepare mail for sending. This is all an MUA does. The MTA is the role of moving mail from system A to system B in a secure, speedy and proper manner. This is all an MTA does, move mail. The MDA is the role of actually delivering mail once it is on system B. This delivery might include further steps as delivery includes the filtering process. The main focus of most email clients is to fulfill the MUA role. However, they also fill other roles. For example, TB! is an MUA (let's you read/prepare mail for delivery), limited MTA (POP/SMTP transfers), limited MDA (filtering mail into different folders is delivery) as well as a text editor, a spell checker and other things. This is why in the previous thread I said that the expected behavior of TB! conformed to those of MUAs through the years. Not all email clients to everything that TB! does but the portion of the email client we were talking about, preparing a message to be sent, falls clearly in the MUA role. Now, here's where a lot of people would get up in arms with me. They have on other lists, newsgroups and, I believe, even here. I feel that neither the Windows world or the Unix world have gotten the concept of "Email Client" down correctly. Both have clients, sure, but the roles (and lack of roles) they take on are flawed. In Windows the problem is all of the clients implement too much. For example, TB!, as stated, is an MUA, limited MTA, limited MDA, text editor, spell checker LDAP client. I feel that the text editor and spell checker should be left out entirely and only hooks into a text editor provided. The text editor would then not implement a spell check but, instead, provide hooks to call one. In this way each person can use the editor they prefer and spell checker they prefer. In fact, they could use the editor/spell checker across a variety of programs and in doing so have a consistent interface for those two portions across those programs as well as the ability to choose the best editor/spell checker for them. This would free up time for the authors of the mail client to work on the mail client instead of reimplementing an editor and a spell checker which will always be subpar to the editors and spell checkers from authors who are programming them and not them and an email client as well. In unix the problem is that most, if not all, of the clients implement too little. Hardly any clients are as capable as TB! and PMMail98 on checking multiple, separate accounts. Most cannot filter mail but, instead, rely upon a program designed to fill the MDA role to do the filtering. Because of that paradigm most also do not handle POP/IMAP with any intelligence at all. However, they don't encumber themselves with editors or spell checkers and, rightfully, simply provide hooks to other programs to handle those specialized tasks. A lot of people have argued that an editor and a spell checker (for example) are required in producing mail and thus should be reimplemented by the authors of each individual email client. A lot of other people argue that separate tasks should be handled by separate programs. So how do I reconcile the need to combine some tasks (MUA/MTA/MDA) but not others (editor/spell checker) into an email client? The key lies in understanding what the primary function of an email client is. An email client is, at the core, a program which handles a database. That database is what we call "messages." With any database there are functions which need to be there to make it functional. 1: Import POP/IMAP/local spool files provide this functionality. Therefore a proper email client should be able to retrieve its own mail from remote servers as an import function. 2: Sorting Not only does this apply to what is already in the database, but also what is coming into the database. If the client must be able to import (retrieve) messages from other servers it means it must also be able to filter them. 3: Export Finally, what good is a database if you cannot take the data that is in it and move it elsewhere. SMTP provides this functionality. 4: Maintenance Finally routines need to be provided for the maintenance of the database. The ability to trim it of cruft, move records around,
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi there! On 19 Nov 99, at 16:37, Steve Lamb wrote about "(SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and al": Now, as always, I'm sure someone like Alex could come up and point out where I am wrong, but this is my understanding of these terms, why I use them in the way that I do and how they shape my thoughts and views on the whole technical and social mechanisms of email. Okay, okay, you're quite right, and here is a gift to you: http://www.infradig.com Hope you'll like it:-) Besides, it's free... [snip] In Windows the problem is all of the clients implement too much. For example, TB!, as stated, is an MUA, limited MTA, limited MDA, text editor, spell checker LDAP client. I feel that the text editor and spell checker should be left out entirely and only hooks into a text editor provided. Now tell me how you think this can be implemented in winDOS:- ) No way! M$ has done everything against it already, for if only M$ gave the programmers some ways to do so --- winDOS would become Linux the next day, and there would be no place for M$ on the market:-). Linux has such thing as "protocols" that make it possible to exchange data etc. in between specialized applications. Quite the contrary with winDOS. What do we have? OLE? Don't make me laugh! DDE? Well, but how many applications support DDE? MAPI? M$ has done everything it could to prevent MAPI from spreading (the interested people can try to read MAPI 1.0 specs:-. M$ gains money (lions share of it) by marketing all-in-one applications, buggy, unreliable, but which pretend to be able to do everything. Therefore they in fact tell their users "hey, use our apps -- and you'll need no other programs, and you'll have no need to *learn* how to do things". It's idiotic, yes, but this position resulted in crowds of "users" that do not want to learn *at all*. Once more, M$ makes money out of it, and you can do pretty little about it:-( The text editor would then not implement a spell check but, instead, provide hooks to call one. In this way each person can use the editor they prefer and spell checker they prefer. In fact, they could use the editor/spell checker across a variety of programs and in doing so have a consistent interface for those two portions across those programs as well as the ability to choose the best editor/spell checker for them. The only programs under WinDOS that do exactly this (but leave no choice to the users) is... guess what? Office+Outlook:- ) This would free up time for the authors of the mail client to work on the mail client instead of reimplementing an editor and a spell checker which will always be subpar to the editors and spell checkers from authors who are programming them and not them and an email client as well. In theory, I'm on your side. But this is all Linux ideology, and that's why Linux is great. But we live under WinDOS here:-((( In unix the problem is that most, if not all, of the clients implement too little. Hardly any clients are as capable as TB! and PMMail98 on checking multiple, separate accounts. With IMAP you needn't it at all (when under Linux). Take Mutt, and voila! [...] 1: Import POP/IMAP/local spool files provide this functionality. Therefore a proper email client should be able to retrieve its own mail from remote servers as an import function. 2: Sorting Not only does this apply to what is already in the database, but also what is coming into the database. If the client must be able to import (retrieve) messages from other servers it means it must also be able to filter them. 3: Export Finally, what good is a database if you cannot take the data that is in it and move it elsewhere. SMTP provides this functionality. 4: Maintenance Finally routines need to be provided for the maintenance of the database. The ability to trim it of cruft, move records around, perform backups and so forth. And now go and check the url I've provided above:-) But under WinDOS this won't help you a lot, will it? [...] SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) -- Thought for the day: Beware of low-flying butterflies. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Monday, November 22, 1999, 5:23:01 PM, Alexander wrote: The text editor would then not implement a spell check but, The only programs under WinDOS that do exactly this (but leave no choice to the users) is... guess what? Office+Outlook:- ) Quite the contrary, PMMail. ;) This would free up time for the authors of the mail client to work on the mail client instead of reimplementing an editor In theory, I'm on your side. But this is all Linux ideology, and that's why Linux is great. But we live under WinDOS here:-((( In theory it is great and in practice it is, too. Sure, we live in WinDOS here but it doesn't mean we cannot take the high points of the other world and incorporate them here. Like I said, I like how TB! and PMMail handle multiple accounts. There is nothing as elegant and power in the Unix world. I'm certainly not one to sit on that side of the fence and say "Hey, that's great in Windows, but we live under Linux." http://sourceforge.net/project/?form_grp=273 In unix the problem is that most, if not all, of the clients implement too little. Hardly any clients are as capable as TB! and PMMail98 on checking multiple, separate accounts. With IMAP you needn't it at all (when under Linux). Take Mutt, and voila! Take mutt and do what? Btw, you might want to check the many, MANY posts I've made on the topic on www.deja.com before answering that. Chances are, I've already addressed what you may me thinking of several times over. Needless to say, mutt, while an excellent single-user, single-account MUA is utterly outclassed compared to PMMail/TB! when it comes to multiple accounts. And now go and check the url I've provided above:-) But under WinDOS this won't help you a lot, will it? Cool, postie. Actually, I used postie to send out turns for a Stars! game that I hosted quite a while ago. That and a batch file was all I need to send out news postings and turn files for my game of 5-6 people. One could do a lot with postie and perl if one was so inclined. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi Alexander, on Tuesday, November 23, 1999, 9:23:01 AM GMT+0800, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: [...] Your machine is three days fast and I can never find your messages until after someone has replied already and I go looking. Kindly check. ;-) -- Thanks, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, November 19, 1999, 11:31:07 PM, Thomas wrote: Hi Steve, on Saturday, November 20, 1999, 8:37:02 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote: SL MUA stands for Mail Use Agent or Messaging User Agent. MTA is for Mail SL Transfer agent. There is a third, MDA, which stands for Mail Delivery Agent. [very good explanation skipped} For all those who have put Steve on the kill filter, please note that you've missed something very educational. Yes, this is the problem with people like Steve, they aren't stupid, just very irritating. You have to balance if the information received is worth the anti-social behavior that generally accompanies it. I'd also like to note that from my experience a "Steve" ages very well and becomes a considerable asset. I can't wait! 8^) Generally speaking if a "Steve" does make some good points someone that is willing to deal with his behavior will comment on it and the rest of us will get the good parts without the bad parts via quoted replies. Thank you for being willing to be that person. SL A lot of people have argued that an editor and a spell checker (for SL example) are required in producing mail and thus should be reimplemented by SL the authors of each individual email client. A lot of other people argue that SL separate tasks should be handled by separate programs. So how do I reconcile SL the need to combine some tasks (MUA/MTA/MDA) but not others (editor/spell SL checker) into an email client? FYI rumours have it that the well-advertised Version 2 will have an option "use external editor". I think you will agree with me that this would make everybody happy. I agree, the more a program is based on hooks into the code and the more modular the code the more customizable it will be and in general the better the program will be accepted because it can be customized to meet "my" needs. - -- Watcher aka Bill DeVos |[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aack.net/ | http://www.aack.net/watcher - - Fine day to work off excess energy. Steal something heavy. - - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBODYpsm14vvNVqX4UEQIPkgCfRB8khmNRV0jGqVBFHlXJv4RkexMAoMMn 7I4N44MFZ3C7Qm83H9aiezGy =lrAm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
