Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
Hi Allie, On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:01:18 -0500GMT (22/09/2000, 05:01 +0800GMT), A . Curtis Martin wrote: ACM For everyone, especially newbies who may feel shy or intimidated: ACM *Please*, despite any negative impressions the veterans may give, always ACM feel free to voice your opinions as you like. Yeah! Go ahead! Give us something to (... thought I just heard a trout flying my way.) -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46d under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
On Tuesday, September 19, 2000, 12:26:27 PM, Nick wrote: In Reference to "Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])" From Ming-Li: " M Their requests are nonetheless legitimate, IMHO, and there's no M need to treat them as threats to the integrity of TB (or the M Internet, or computer, whatever). Ah, but if TB! was to incorporate every wishlist I've seen in this list over the past couple of years we'd be using an Outlook clone and would need a CD to load the program from by now. So perhaps "threat" is a bit of a strong word, but the results could be the same. No, I don't think RIT could or should implement every featured requested. But that's not my point. My point is, every so often I see vocal veterans (who are generally very nice and helpful to newcommers) turn offensive upon seeing certain questions/feature requests. Q: why can't TB resort my folders automatically? why can't I redefine shortcuts? why can't I re-arrange my toolbar buttons? A: blah, blah, blah... (detailed answers and courteous through out) Q: why can't I use proportional fonts? why can't I send html mail? A: what a stupid request, you're unfit to be a parent (uh, to use email, I mean), go back to LookOut... blah, blah, blah. Get the picture? -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.47 Beta/5 | Win2k SP1 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
On Tuesday, September 19, 2000, 10:08:54 PM, Oleg wrote: ML mouse is more convenient. For you. I use keyboard. In the situation I described, my mouse is nearer than keyboard, and I've got only one hand, while most of TB's shortcuts are two-three key combinations. That might not stop you from using the keyboard, but I would rather grab the mouse. And that's my point: it's about habit, and situation. ML Then there's the problem of having to remember the shortcuts. I can ML remember only so many of them, even for a program I use very often ML like TB. It wastes even more time if I have to look them up in a ML table, and it waste more (physical) desktop estate to have a (hard) ML copy of TB's shortcut lists at the side. Yes. But. You can start learning them step-by-step. When you take your look away from monitor for relaxing (you have to do it for the sake of your eyes) look through the list of shortcuts and choose the one you will benefit the most from learning. And start using it. Don't try to use next until your hand completely learn it. You will gain great power rather quickly. When I take my eyes off the screen to rest them, why should I torture them further by go through the shortcut list? :) I save such moments for my brain to think (about my dissertation, e.g., or whatever I'm working on). Don't get me wrong. I do look my shortcut lists (of TB and many others) often (I know. I said I considered myself a keyboard person, remember?). The problem is, there're too many shortcut keys (not just in TB, we don't use just TB, do we?). I can't (and don't want to) remember them all. Yes, practice helps, but for those functions that I don't use often, I forget them quickly. Power user / common user. Keyboard is more efficient for power user, toolbar is more convenient for common user. I find this statement somewhat, dare I say, self-serving. Some *nix people think there's no power user who uses Windows. And Windows users think Mac users are non-power (or stupid even) users. :) If using mouse and toolbar makes me a "common user", then so be it. They can have their choices -- they can choose OE or everything else. Somehow I'm not as sure RIT wants to turn away "common users" in drove. :) ML It's true it takes time to implement those features, It's take not only time, it will take the power and efficiency of TB! as a MUA. Not necessarily, may I say, not necessarily. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.47 Beta/5 | Win2k SP1 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 21/09/2000 at 14:46, Ming-Li wrote: Ming-Li On Tuesday, September 19, 2000, 12:26:27 PM, Nick wrote: Ming-Li No, I don't think RIT could or should implement every featured Ming-Li requested. But that's not my point. My point is, every so often I Ming-Li see vocal veterans (who are generally very nice and helpful to Ming-Li newcommers) turn offensive upon seeing certain questions/feature Ming-Li requests. Absolutely! If I have an opinion and its legitimately held, and it relates to The Bat!, isn't this the place to air it? I respect the veterans' opinions in most things and they should respect ours, too. That doesn't mean Ritlabs should change the program in itself, but this is surely one forum they have for judging what their target audience want. And disagreement is a good thing, particularly when its so well moderated, as on here (bootlicking over!). Graham mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Written using The Bat! 1.46c -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i Comment: PGP 6.5.8 iQA/AwUBOcpDqS7i2PqZ2xC9EQIO4wCg6RjgDLMKcmKNkX84t5o0ILRM194AoNUH DgvRaCdzrXW4WEl8WoXjKYns =JeM4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:21:35 +0100, Graham wrote: G Absolutely! G If I have an opinion and its legitimately held, and it relates to The G Bat!, isn't this the place to air it? I respect the veterans' G opinions in most things and they should respect ours, too. That G doesn't mean Ritlabs should change the program in itself, but this is G surely one forum they have for judging what their target audience G want. And disagreement is a good thing, particularly when its so well G moderated, as on here (bootlicking over!). Way to go Graham. I agree with you. For everyone, especially newbies who may feel shy or intimidated: *Please*, despite any negative impressions the veterans may give, always feel free to voice your opinions as you like. This is indeed the forum for it. Just leave the profanity by the door before you come in. That's all we ask. :-) Disagreements and healthy arguments will arise. No problem with that. - -- A. Curtis Martin.. Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA | PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937 PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey - --- ** "The best way to win an argument is to be right. " Using TB! v1.46d «» Win2k Pro SP1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification. iQA/AwUBOcp3HvAXeSHuB5k3EQKuHACeN6KQlgT8Yr0qu5CwsNRL6V+m7pkAnRzF dBnm3XbGTon/o2KFpvK3lp3H =xIk2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:46:53 -0700, Ming-Li wrote:
ML Q: why can't TB resort my folders automatically? why can't I
ML redefine shortcuts? why can't I re-arrange my toolbar buttons?
ML A: blah, blah, blah... (detailed answers and courteous through out)
I haven't seen much detailed discussions against these requests. :-(
ML Q: why can't I use proportional fonts? why can't I send html mail?
ML A: what a stupid request, you're unfit to be a parent (uh, to use
ML email, I mean), go back to LookOut... blah, blah, blah.
ML Get the picture?
No. I don't get this picture at all. I posted arguments for using a
fixed width font and nearly fell off my seat when I read that there's a
war being waged on the issue. :-) This is not intended at all. It's just
that some feel a bit sensitive about strong, though not rude (we got rid
of that), opposition to their ideas. If I'm strongly against something
I'll say it just as the those against, for example, the editors
behaviour give some energetic posts against it ("I'd rather tattoo a
message on my thigh that use TB!'s editor" or some such hilarious
statement). :-)
It's all give and take. If you strongly criticize a feature, be prepared
for strong criticism in the opposite direction. :-) It's all a part of
healthy, even discourse.
- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA | PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
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Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
Hi Ming-Li, On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:06:11 -0700GMT (20/09/2000, 03:06 +0800GMT), Ming-Li wrote: ML It's at least debatable which takes more time--mouse or keyboard (or ML other user interfaces)--and the answer would depend very largely on ML personal habits and situations. No, I'm sorry to say. In one of my earlier mails in this thread I said I can prove that I am wrong, and keyboard shortcuts are faster. This is because I have almost finished MZX867: Human-Computer Interaction. The course is about User Interface Design. There are scientific and semi-scientifc to measure how "good" or "fast" a UI is. Let me throw some keywords at you: HTA Diagram; NGOMSL Description; Predictive Evaluation;... My favourite is the NGOMSL Description: it analyses the Steps you have to go through to accomplish a goal. This includes each keystroke and each mouse click, but also each cognitive step. I don't want to go into detail, as this is not the forum for it, but believe, it is not a matter of debate which takes more time, and which is "easier" or more straight-forward. ML I consider myself a keyboard person, and enjoy many of the ML keyboard shortcuts, if available. But I like mouse, too. I read ML email in my leisure time. With a cup of tea in one hand, leaning ML back comfortably in my chair, feet on desk or another chair even, ML mouse is more convenient. Show me writing a reply with a mouse. It's possible; but hardly with you feet up the desk. ;-) ML Then there's the problem of having to remember the shortcuts. A cognitive problem, and that's my major problem with keyboard shortcuts too. ML The bottom line is: keyboard may be more efficient (in general), but ML toolbar, along with many other UI enhancements, is more convenient ML and easier to learn (also in general). I agree with you here. I just redesigned part of a software system for the a.m. course, and I could prove that my redesigned version was better and faster (I could and did prove it; less keystrokes and so on). Upon evaluation with a real user, it fell through: the icon, for example, was not intuitive to him, and on top of all, the user didn't like my design because it was in English and not in Chinese. :-((( So much for scientific measurement. (Am I contradicting myself?) -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46c under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
A Bat-fellow, Januk Aggarwal, wrote on Tuesday, September 19, 2000 at 5:11:46 CET -- Sorry, I need to add my customary complaint here. How come there are four darned *buttons* available, but (once your cursor is located in the preview window) there are no keyboard shortcuts that allow you to move up or down the message list? JA I'm not sure I understand, what buttons are available, and what do JA they do (or not do)? I sure don't know what buttons are available because I don't use any toolbars and I removed all of them from all the Bat! screens. If there's something I hate it's toolbars. In applications that you only use once a week they're handy but with one's favourite everyday (or even every-hour) tools they just get in the way. A great program should offer the complete range of keyboard shortcuts for each and every command present in the program, and each of these keyboard shortcuts should be configurable by the end user, not by the programmers. The Bat! has a way to go here, to reach that end. But none of the mail clients (except Pegasus) is as close to reaching this keyboard shortcuts paradise as The Bat! is. That totally configurable keyboard shortcuts are very well possible is proven by such magnificent applications as EditPlus (South Korea), TextPad (British) or, of course, Microsoft Word. Thank heavens you can at least get rid of all toolbars in The Bat!, even though keyboard shortcuts only work with about 50 % efficiency. As to details about toolbars, please ask Allie who was explaining something to Karin. JA They work as they should here. CTRL-C copies the selected text to JA clipboard, and CTRL-V pastes from the clipboard. Of course CTRL-V JA will not do anything in the Preview Window or in the reader window JA since the text is read only. What have you tried doing that JA doesn't work? What were you trying to do? I wrote this to the list before -- please bear with me, those who've already read this. When the cursor is located in the message preview window, THE two keyboard shortcuts that I need most in that very message preview window, are disabled. Namely, Go to Next Message = CTRL+ARROW-DOWN (is disfunctional), and Go to Previous Message = CTRL+ARROW-UP (is disfunctional as well). Why? If they can function in the reader window, shouldn't they function in the preview window as well? Even Outlook Express employs this feature cleanly and logically. But The Bat! doesn't give a damn. The same goes for moving or copying messages. (Moving or copying the entire message, not a selected piece of text.) Once the cursor is located in the message preview window, or *even in the main reader window*, the keyboard shortcuts CTRL+V (Move Message to Folder...) or CTRL+C (Copy Message to Folder...) are disfunctional. Once again, I sorely need these two commands precisely in those preview or reader windows, *not* really in the message list window where the shortcuts are currently functional. You're right, Januk: CTRL+C and CTRL+V are standard Windows shortcuts for copying and pasting clipboard text. Alright, so let the programmers choose CTRL+W or CTRL+Q, for all I care, to enable moving or copying the entire message. Two pairs of fully functional (ie. working in each window throughout the application) keyboard shortcuts are absolutely essential here. One pair, for moving or copying an entire message. The other pair, for jumping to the next or to the previous message in the message list, always *without* having to take the cursor out of the message preview / reader window! Of course, the ideal thing would be, as in EditPlus or MS Word, if each user could configure his or her own keyboard shortcuts, for each and every command in The Bat. This really shouldn't be too difficult for the programmers to enable. Twenty years from now we'll all be laughing at the fact that there used to be a time when this was *not* possible. However, I'd rather not wait that long. 8-| In Outlook Express, the four keyboard shortcuts (unlike in The Bat!, in Outlook they are fully functional throughout the application) are CTRL+, CTRL+, CTRL+SHIFT+V and CTRL+SHIFT+C. Typical Microsoft, too many keys for simple commands that you use (that I definitely use) every other minute. Pegasus is the king of them all in this respect: press a *single* key, M, for moving a message to a chosen folder, or press C, for copying a message to any folder! Press the + key (even on the numeric keypad) to jump to the next message in the message list (even when the message list isn't displayed at all!), or press the - key to jump to the previous message. Please, Bat, learn from Pegasus! -- Yours, Alex. of Slovakia [flying with The Bat! 1.46 Beta/6 under Windows 98 4.10 Build A amd k6-2 500 mhz processor with 64 mb ram] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
Hi Avenarius, On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:00:27 +0200GMT (19/09/2000, 14:00 +0800GMT), Avenarius wrote: A If there's something I hate it's toolbars. In applications that you A only use once a week they're handy but with one's favourite A everyday (or even every-hour) tools they just get in the way. A A great program should offer the complete range of keyboard shortcuts A for each and every command present Just for your info, I use the toolbar buttons all the time. I do not ever use keyboard shortcuts, with one exception: ALT-F2 when I'm on the way from the TV to the bathroom. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46c under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:00:27 +0200, Avenarius wrote: A I sure don't know what buttons are available because I don't use any A toolbars and I removed all of them from all the Bat! screens. If A there's something I hate it's toolbars. In applications that you only A use once a week they're handy but with one's favourite everyday (or A even every-hour) tools they just get in the way. I've basically done that with Forte' Agent but not yet with TB!. A lot of the keyboard shortcuts are too tedious. :-) A Thank heavens you can at least get rid of all toolbars in The Bat!, A even though keyboard shortcuts only work with about 50 % efficiency. 50%? I know that there are inconsistencies but 50%. :-) You're upset aren't you? :-) A As to details about toolbars, please ask Allie who was explaining A something to Karin. The only thing that you can do with TB! toolbars is move them to different parts of the window. Just hold the toolbar and drag it around. When the frame suddenly gets skinny, it means that the toolbar is dock-able at the present location. It will dock at the edges of the windows and other places as well. You may even have the toolbars float because they will remember their positions. A I wrote this to the list before -- please bear with me, those who've A already read this. When the cursor is located in the message preview A window, THE two keyboard shortcuts that I need most in that very A message preview window, are disabled. Namely, Go to Next Message = A CTRL+ARROW-DOWN (is disfunctional), and Go to Previous Message = A CTRL+ARROW-UP (is disfunctional as well). This is true and I've brought this up before myself. A Why? I'm battling over this myself. :-) A If they can function in the reader window, shouldn't they function in A the preview window as well? My logic runs along the same vein. A The same goes for moving or copying messages. (Moving or copying the A entire message, not a selected piece of text.) Once the cursor is A located in the message preview window, or *even in the main reader A window*, the keyboard shortcuts CTRL+V (Move Message to Folder...) or A CTRL+C (Copy Message to Folder...) are disfunctional. Urhm, now this is different. CTRL+C and CTRL+V copy and paste text, so if you are in the message body area, they'll adopt those functions. Highlight the message in the message list and they'll do as you desire above (ie, copy and move the message to another folder). This is consistent throughout. A Once again, I sorely need these two commands precisely in those A preview or reader windows, *not* really in the message list window A where the shortcuts are currently functional. But CTRL-C will copy text blocks. There's a conflict there. They should not have used conflicting shortcuts. It's untidy to me. They should have used unconflicting shortcuts so that they could work whether or not the message body or the message list is in focus. A Of course, the ideal thing would be, as in EditPlus or MS Word, if A each user could configure his or her own keyboard shortcuts, for each A and every command in The Bat. This really shouldn't be too difficult A for the programmers to enable. Twenty years from now we'll all be A laughing at the fact that there used to be a time when this was *not* A possible. However, I'd rather not wait that long. 8-| This is a upcoming version 2 feature. :-/ I know, it's beginning to sound like a broken record but that's really all I can say. :-) A Pegasus is the king of them all in this respect: press a *single* key, snip So is Forte' Agent. :-) - -- A. Curtis Martin.. Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA | PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937 PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey - --- ** "A life lived in fear is half a life lived. " Using TB! v1.47 Beta/3 «» Win2k Pro SP1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification. iQA/AwUBOcdRnvAXeSHuB5k3EQK3WgCgtgWokjV2HilN7S6nh+t3VUgGHkEAoPUu SLcVcRJVfMaXYUPCDKTj5G1m =wgyb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
Hallo Oleg, On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:19:48 +0500 GMT (19/09/2000, 18:19 +0800 GMT), Oleg Zalyalov wrote: OZ You waste your time positioning mouse over buttons, you waste your OZ screen space for those buttons. Of course, it's your time and your OZ screen. That's true. Maybe I'm just used to buttons, but I never liked keyboard shortcuts. That's why I never got friendly with WordPerfect even though everybody told me it's very powerful. (This was 15 years ago, I don't know whether it's still true.) What I like about TB is you that you have the choice. OZ If you are not working with graphics it is usually much more quicker OZ to work with hotkeys rather with the mouse. Yeah, I know. I can even prove that you are right. I guess I'm a victim of my habits, then. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.47 Beta/4 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
On Tuesday, September 19, 2000, 3:19:48 AM, Oleg wrote: TF Just for your info, I use the toolbar buttons all the time. I TF do not ever use keyboard shortcuts, with one exception: ALT-F2 TF when I'm on the way from the TV to the bathroom. ;-) You waste your time positioning mouse over buttons, you waste your screen space for those buttons. Of course, it's your time and your screen. If you are not working with graphics it is usually much more quicker to work with hotkeys rather with the mouse. It's at least debatable which takes more time--mouse or keyboard (or other user interfaces)--and the answer would depend very largely on personal habits and situations. I consider myself a keyboard person, and enjoy many of the keyboard shortcuts, if available. But I like mouse, too. I read email in my leisure time. With a cup of tea in one hand, leaning back comfortably in my chair, feet on desk or another chair even, mouse is more convenient. If TB changes many of its shortcuts to one-key operation (as in Forte Agent), I might use keyboard more. Even then I won't give up my mouse, however, for it's more likely to miss hit with keyboard (unless my hand is at the right position, which it isn't when I'm not sitting straight). Then there's the problem of having to remember the shortcuts. I can remember only so many of them, even for a program I use very often like TB. It wastes even more time if I have to look them up in a table, and it waste more (physical) desktop estate to have a (hard) copy of TB's shortcut lists at the side. The bottom line is: keyboard may be more efficient (in general), but toolbar, along with many other UI enhancements, is more convenient and easier to learn (also in general). Every user has his/her preferences and habits. As Thomas said, I like having the choices. From time to time, I find new users get beaten up on this list for requesting features that TB lacks (proportional fonts, sending html mail, ¡K etc.). While I understand the logic behind these designs, and agree with many of them, I fail to see why users can't have their choices. It's true it takes time to implement those features, which is a scarce resource for RIT, and we all want them to implement features we value most (and kill bugs we hate most). Their requests are nonetheless legitimate, IMHO, and there's no need to treat them as threats to the integrity of TB (or the Internet, or computer, whatever). I'm not saying that you are doing that. I'm just borrowing the chance to vent my feeling with what I've been observing, especially in the past few weeks. I myself might be doing that, probably unknowingly, so this is a reminder to myself as well. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.47 Beta/3 | Win2k SP1 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])
In Reference to "Keyboard shortcuts (was: Odd behavioural complaints? [was: Re: Deleting messages and spacebarring through 'em])" From Ming-Li: " M Their requests are nonetheless legitimate, IMHO, and there's no M need to treat them as threats to the integrity of TB (or the M Internet, or computer, whatever). Ah, but if TB! was to incorporate every wishlist I've seen in this list over the past couple of years we'd be using an Outlook clone and would need a CD to load the program from by now. So perhaps "threat" is a bit of a strong word, but the results could be the same. -- ò¸ó Nick [MUA: TB! 1.47 Beta/5] Danger [OS: Win98 4.10 1998] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
