Re[2]: Steve Lamb 101

[tracer]

Hello Steve Lamb,
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:35:58 -0800 GMT your local time,
which was Friday, January 14, 2000, 12:35:58 AM (GMT+0700) my local time,
Steve Lamb wrote:

Steve> Thursday, January 13, 2000, 9:08:40 AM, tracer wrote:
>> didnt have..). Ok, I had the write the things but it made life so much
>> easier to create standards(g)

Steve> Oh, standards are a good thing, as long as they are open.  Microsoft often
Steve> doesn't open its standards, doesn't maintain the standards they set, don't
Steve> adhere to standards regardless of them setting it or not.

Steve> I don't consider it a "standard" when the main reason it is standardized
Steve> is based solely on market share.

agreed.
Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.39 Beta/1 
mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Steve Lamb 101

[Steve Lamb]

Thursday, January 13, 2000, 9:08:40 AM, tracer wrote:
> didnt have..). Ok, I had the write the things but it made life so much
> easier to create standards(g)

Oh, standards are a good thing, as long as they are open.  Microsoft often
doesn't open its standards, doesn't maintain the standards they set, don't
adhere to standards regardless of them setting it or not.

I don't consider it a "standard" when the main reason it is standardized
is based solely on market share.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

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Re[2]: Steve Lamb 101

[tracer]

Hello Steve Lamb,
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 07:16:11 -0800 GMT your local time,
which was Thursday, January 13, 2000, 10:16:11 PM (GMT+0700) my local time,
Steve Lamb wrote:


Steve> As for Microsoft, we all know they "won" on PR alone.  Thing is, after a
Steve> while, people get tired of the BS and look for the technically superior
Steve> solution.  I never claimed to be a PR guy, just right.  Given the choice of
Steve> being nice and wrong or rude and right I'll be the latter every time.  People
Steve> forgive rude, they don't forgive wrong.
They do, they know YOU didnt write windows(g)
But agreed, being wrong in support it means you lose customers.
I remember from the very first PC's getting all the users in the
company setup with identical batfiles (even for the programs they
didnt have..). Ok, I had the write the things but it made life so much
easier to create standards(g)


Best regards,
 
tracer

Using theBAT 1.39 Beta/1 
mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Steve Lamb 101

[Steve Lamb]

Thursday, January 13, 2000, 1:54:16 AM, Andrew wrote:
> The other thing you learn from him is why Unix got stomped all over by
> Microsoft products. Steve has a pure Unix mindset: there is One Right
> Way to understand anything, and anyone who can't share it, even after
> being shouted at, is a Stupid Luser.

*laugh*

> He's often right about the facts. But the tone of hectoring contempt
> and the habit of treating people as if it were wicked of them to want
> something he finds illogical tends to put paying customers off.

I hate to tell this to you but I have laid into some Unix people because
their programs don't do enough.  I've explained to them exactly why the
Windows clients were better in some regards than their clients and demanded
that they fix it.  Hasn't happened yet.  :/

As for Microsoft, we all know they "won" on PR alone.  Thing is, after a
while, people get tired of the BS and look for the technically superior
solution.  I never claimed to be a PR guy, just right.  Given the choice of
being nice and wrong or rude and right I'll be the latter every time.  People
forgive rude, they don't forgive wrong.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-

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Re: Rogue Galary (was:Re: Steve Lamb 101)

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Oleg, 

On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 at 15:13:45 [GMT +0400], you wrote:
R>>> anybody got more info on that?
R>>> (who to contact, site-url,...)

TF>> Mail it to Leif Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

OZ> And where can I see them?

The rogues gallery is accessible via the TBUDL FAQ page, but here is
the direct URL as well.

http://www.pcwize.com/thebat/rogues.shtml




Leif Gregory 

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on a Pentium III 500 MHz notebook with 128MB.

Tagline of the day:
A 'language' is a dialect with an army.



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Re: Rogue Galary (was:Re: Steve Lamb 101)

[Oleg Zalyalov]

Hello, the Bat! list recipients,

Thursday, January 13, 2000, Thomas Fernandez wrote to Roel about
Rogue Galary (was:Re: Steve Lamb 101):

R>> sometime ago there was a question for photo's of the list members to
R>> put them on some site...

R>> anybody got more info on that?
R>> (who to contact, site-url,...)

TF> Mail it to Leif Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

And where can I see them?

-- 
Best regards,
Oleg Zalyalov. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Using The Bat! version 1.38e
  under Windows NT 4.0 Build 1381 Service Pack 6

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Rogue Galary (was:Re: Steve Lamb 101)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Roel,

On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:52:06 +0100GMT (13/01/2000, 17:52 +0800GMT),
Roel wrote:

R> which reminds me:
R> sometime ago there was a question for photo's of the list members to
R> put them on some site...

R> anybody got more info on that?
R> (who to contact, site-url,...)

Mail it to Leif Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.39 Beta/1
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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Re: Steve Lamb 101

[Andrew Brown]

ND> Lamb in an acquired taste (pun intended), and once you get past the
ND> brash outer shell there really is a lot one can learn from Steve. I
ND> have gained great insight on a lot of topics from his "discussions" in
ND> this forum, and while I don't agree with everything he says (what sane
ND> person possibly could?) there is even tidbits of wisdom in the
ND> wackiest of Steve's stances.

The other thing you learn from him is why Unix got stomped all over by
Microsoft products. Steve has a pure Unix mindset: there is One Right
Way to understand anything, and anyone who can't share it, even after
being shouted at, is a Stupid Luser.

He's often right about the facts. But the tone of hectoring contempt
and the habit of treating people as if it were wicked of them to want
something he finds illogical tends to put paying customers off.

I'm anti bloat myself. I don't want a newsreader, though a scoring
system for mailing lists would be wonderful. I don't want another web
browser. I want a proper editor that uses proper proportional fonts
and understands soft returns while editing, even if it formats the
result in hard ascii.

We have to be sympathetic to the Bat's developers: if they get 2.0
wrong by being too ambitious they are screwed, but if they are not
ambitious enough, that's a mistake, though not as serious. The most
important thing is for the program to remain fast and reliable at
retrieving, sorting, and manipulating large quantities of email from
numerous accounts.

To this end, I want global filters so that mail from many accounts
ends up in the same folder. this really comes down to the capacity to
copy filters easily between accounts. Date based filtering and
archiving would also be a good thing. Coloured labels for messages has
been often demanded and is long overdue. a nice refinement on that
would be a filter that did date-based colouring on header lines, so
that today's mail was red, and yesterday's orange, while stuff from a
month ago faded to dead black -- whatever: if we had coloured labels
and time-based filtering people could do this stuff for themselves.
Especially if there were lots of colours :-)






  -- Andrew Brown

running 1.38 on Windows 98
under 4.10

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Re[2]: Steve Lamb 101

[Roel]

 \\\|///
 / ~ _ \
(- O o -)
--oOOo-(_)-oOOo---
Hello Leif,

LG> Ok everybody, group hug!

LG> 

which reminds me:
sometime ago there was a question for photo's of the list members to
put them on some site...

anybody got more info on that?
(who to contact, site-url,...)

-- 
 Der Immer Jodelende Schweizer In Lederhosen
 Roel  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  ** Speelplein Aboe http://surf.to/aboe **

 Plagiarism prohibited, derive carefully.

 Using The Bat! 1.39 Beta/1 on Windows 98 4.10 build  A 
 with a Intel p200-MMX @ 64 MB & 21Gb Hd

 .oooO
 (   )   Oooo.  
--\ ((   )
   \_)) /
 (_/ 

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Re: Steve Lamb 101

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Angel, 

On Wed, 12 Jan 2000 at 18:51:08 [GMT -0800], you wrote:
A> Hi all, and Nick,

A> I am *not* a member of the *I hate Steve* fan club (Hate is such a strong word 
anyways).
A> I just think there is a lot of frustration in the air.
[snipped lots of mushy stuff]

Ok everybody, group hug!





Leif Gregory 

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on a Pentium III 500 MHz notebook with 128MB.

Tagline of the day:
Give me ambiguity or give me something else.



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Re: Steve Lamb 101

[Angel]

Hi all, and Nick,

I am *not* a member of the *I hate Steve* fan club (Hate is such a strong word 
anyways).
I just think there is a lot of frustration in the air.
What I *am* is someone with over 20 yrs experience in Customer Service, Problem 
Resolution
and PR who doesn't like to see people arguing and squabbling over something in a public
fora which is of an informative, progressive and support genre. Much more could be
accomplished if the threads stay on topic, and the list-members take adamant, forceful,
personal oppositions to opinions stated in the fora, into private.
I've heard/seen worse. But it's frustrating to see stuff like this in a place
which it has no place. It doesn't concern me *personally*, however it *does* concern
me as a member of a public support/informative fora. It's going to 
happen...disagreements
and conflict, but it's up to US: Me, Steve, and *everyone* else, as to where we draw 
the
line.

Steve publicly apologized for being out of line and I respect that, and I respect him 
much
more for doing so. I have learned quite a bit from this fora, and from Steve (as I told
him in private). I think this fora has benefitted from him input, and I hope that
he will keep things on an "appropriate" public fora manner so that we could continue to
learn more from him.

Contrary to what others may believe, it's hard to ignore *any* email in this fora 
because
sometimes a very good point or fact is contained within..but sometimes within a
buncha flaming etc. Sometimes it's just too hard to miss...and to ignore. We're juct
names on here, but we *are* human after all

With that said, I hope that TBUDL can now get back to what it's supposed to do best for
me: inform, teach and heck... make me smile sometimes :D

And I apologize if this post was/is out of line for the fora but I had to respond to
Nick's  very human post. :)

Regards,
~~~Angel

-- 

   "No hay extraños en este mundo, simplemente amigos 
 por conocer"  
@@ 
*   -={+}=-Senza fiduccia niente-={+}=-  *
**
* Scribbled using The Bat! 1.39 Beta/1 on: 1/12/2000 17:46:45*
*   under Windows 98 PLUS! 4 .10 Build   A   *
*Running a 200MhZ Pentium with a 8.0Gb & 1.2Gb hard disk(s) 128Mb RAM*
@@

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Steve Lamb 101

[Nick Danger]

 As always happens with every new inrush of new TB! users the "I hate
Steve Lamb" fan club gets cranked up.  To this end, let me try and
hurry the learning process along by lending my personal experience.

When I first came on TBUDL my initial reaction to Steve was "what an
obnoxious, conceited, boisterous (if that's possible via email),
pompous ass" and I'll just toss his little ol' name into a kill filter
and be done with it.  Luckily, I held off.

Lamb in an acquired taste (pun intended), and once you get past the
brash outer shell there really is a lot one can learn from Steve. I
have gained great insight on a lot of topics from his "discussions" in
this forum, and while I don't agree with everything he says (what sane
person possibly could?) there is even tidbits of wisdom in the
wackiest of Steve's stances.

Sure, he can make you feel like veins are about to explode in your
forehead at times, but just chalk it up to his passion in defending
what he thinks is a good email program that he doesn't want to see
headed in the wrong (ie: opposite his ideals) way.  You actually have
to admire his passion.

Steve's a self proclaimed curmudgeon, but mixed into that is also a
witty and wry sense of humor.  So please, before you start typing up
that flame response to something Steve said, sit back, count to ten,
and do I do, say to yourself "There goes ol' Steve again!" as it truly
would be a loss to this forum if he took his opinions (staunchly
stated as they are) elsewhere.

-- 
- Nick

Using The Bat! 1.38e
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build
1998  



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