[Texascavers] Drinking in Hot Weather

[wpick]

Hello All

I saw this on another list server

The Grand Canyon Rangers have been learning first hand the effects of simply 
drinking water in heat.
They recommend eating with fluids.

Here's an excerpt from:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/hike-smart.htm

Drink and Eat Often

YOU SWEAT AROUND 1/2 TO 1 QUART OF WATER AND ELECTROLYTES FOR EVERY HOUR YOU 
WALK IN THE HEAT.

This fluid/electrolyte loss can even exceed 2 quarts per hour if you hike 
uphill in direct sunlight and during the hottest time of the day. Because inner 
canyon air is so dry and hot, sweat evaporates instantly, making its loss 
almost imperceptible.

Do not wait until you are feeling thirsty to start replacing fluids and 
electrolytes. By the time you feel thirsty, you are already dehydrated. Even a 
mild level of dehydration can make hiking a lot less fun. The more dehydrated 
you become, the less efficient your body becomes at walking and cooling.

Your body can only absorb about 1 quart of fluid per hour, so drink ½ to 1 
quart of water or sports drink every hour that you are hiking in the heat. 
Carry a water bottle in your hand and drink small amounts often.

Balance your food intake with fluid consumption, else you run the risk of 
becoming dangerously debilitated and severely ill. Food is your body's primary 
source of fuel and salts (electrolytes) while hiking in the canyon. Eat a salty 
snack every time you take a drink.

AND ...

Stay Wet and Stay Cool

KEEP YOURSELF SOAKING WET TO STAY COOL.

This is one of the best things that you can do for yourself. Whenever you are 
near water, make sure that you wet (actually soak) yourself down. If you hike 
while soaking wet you will stay reasonably cool. This will make a wonderful 
difference in how well you feel, especially at the end of the day!



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] Omitted Participants from the Honey Creek Project Report in latest Texas Caver

[Mark Alman]

All,
it has been brought to my attention that I omitted quite a few cavers from Bill 
Steele's excellent article on the Honey Creek Work Project that was held on 
April 11th thru the 13th.
There was an exellent turnout for this and a LOT of work and exploration was 
accomplished.
There work and manpower was invavuable to refurbishing the the shaft entrance 
and access tower and Bill and I definitely want to insure they are given their 
due.
Here's the list in its entirety and I apologize for their omission:
Thanks to one and all who helped out!
Sincerely,
Mark Alman
Editor - The TC
Cavers
 
Barry Adelman      Austin    Sat. only 
Don Barker    Houston Sun. only 
Rob Bissett        San Antonio  Sat. and Sun. 
Don Broussard  Austin    Fri.., Sat., and Sun.
Sandi Calhoun       Austin    Sat. and Sun. 
Rick Cordell      San Antonio  Sat. and Sun. 
Tom Florer     San Antonio  Sat. only 
Ernie Garza    Austin    Sat. and Sun. 
Ed Goff     Dallas Sat. only 
Devra Heyer      Austin    Sat. and Sun. 
Rob Hirsch    Austin    Sat. and Sun. 
Ted Lee     San Antonio  Fri. only 
Kurt Menking    San Antonio  Fri, Sat. and Sun. 
Evelyn Mitchell     San Antonio  Sat. only 
Bill Mixon     Austin    Sat. only 
Patrick Olsen     Austin    Sat. and Sun. 
Wes Schumacher   Austin    Sat. and Sun. 
Bill Steele      Dallas Fri., Sat. and Sun. 
Diana Tomchick    Dallas Fri., Sat. and Sun. 
Arron Wertheim    Austin    Sat. and Sun. 
 
Scientists from Southwest Research Institute
The list of people that were at the cave for the deployment of sensors were,
Ronald N. McGinnis – Research Scientist\Structural Geologist, Division 20 SWRI: 
Friday Deployment ,Saturday cedar clearing and Sunday through trip
Ben Abbot – Institute Scientist\Electrical Engineer, Division 10 SWRI: Friday 
Deployment,Saturday cedar clearing and Sunday through trip
Joshua Kenney - Research Scientist \Electrical Engineer, Division 10 SWRI: 
Friday Deployment and Saturday cedar clearing
Ronnie Killough - Director\Electrical Engineer, Division 10 SWRI: Friday 
Deployment, Saturday cedar clearing and Sunday attended the through trip
Bob Gray – Stepfather of Ben Abbott: Sunday attended the through trip 
Ron Green - Institute Scientist\Hydrologist, Division 20 SWRI: Saturday cedar 
clearing
Scott Rubio – Student Scientist\Geologist, Division 20 SWRI: Friday Deployment, 
Saturday cedar clearing, and Sunday attended the through trip


  

RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

[Louise Power]

I keep hearing that it's more expensive to make hydrogen than the amount you 
would save. How does your suggestion jibe with that?> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 
15:48:10 -0500> From: wavyca...@gmail.com> To: power_lou...@hotmail.com> CC: 
qui...@clearwire.net; fh...@townandcountryins.com; o...@texascavers.com> 
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling> > Here's an idea:> What about 
turning all of that electricity generated by a wind turbine> into hydrogen?> 
Right there in the wind turbine itself. Using water and electrolysis.> If 
hydrogen truly is going to be the portable energy source (for fuel> cells) 
would it not make the most sense to produce the hydrogen at the> source rather 
than losing electrical energy as it is transmitted> through transmission lines? 
(Producing massive amounts of hydrogen> would probably also be a great idea at 
the site of nuclear reactors.> Free oxygen released into the atmosphere would 
probably not hurt> either!)> The concept is already in play. One interesting 
obstacle is what> occurs when metals are exposed to hydrogen. I think the 
process is> called "hydrogenation" and it makes metal brittle and weak. But> 
isolated from the tower by an isolating layer of plastic, the large> mast that 
makes the big wind turbine tower becomes a nice storage tank> for compressed 
hydrogen.> Compressing the metal tube from within would actually make the mast> 
stronger - but only up to the point that the stress might make the> tower 
stressed - but otherwise would make the tubular mast stiffer.> > On 6/21/08, 
Louise Power  wrote:> >> > From what I hear, one of 
the really big problems in the US is that no new> > refineries have been built 
here in 30 years. What's up with that? Answer:> > NIMBY. Even if we get more 
oil, what are we going to do with it?> >> > Also, think oil shale and oil 
sands. I hear that they're doing some> > imaginative things with oil shale, 
such as heating it while it's still in> > the ground and then pumping from 
there rather than excavating huge holes in> > the ground.. Also, apparently 
Canada is right on top of the oil sands> > business.> >> >> > From: 
quinta@clearwire.netTo: power_lou...@hotmail.com;> > 
fh...@townandcountryins.com; ot@texascavers.comDate: Sat, 21 Jun 2008> > 
06:56:29 -0500Subject: Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling> >> >> >> > 
Fritz,> > My complaint is that we started after many and did not devote enough> 
> government resources to it. Most of Europe did. Even Spain was ahead of us> > 
at one time and still is I think. We lost sight of the OPEC oil problem in a> > 
hurry. There is a new company in Idaho? (if my memory is right) that is from> > 
Spain and is building turbins. I think it opened in the last year. We are> > 
behind on a lot of this. The states that are doing well are the ones with> > 
state incentives. There was a new Senate hearing on this sort of thing -> > 
ummm!> >> > This is from the BWEA in the UK.> >> > It is clear to see how much 
wind energy has taken off in some countries,> > notably Denmark, Germany and 
Spain, the first of which now gets 20% of it's> > electricity from wind 
turbines, compared to our 1%. However, the UK has the> > largest wind energy 
resources of any country in Europe, and now that the> > European market's 
economies of scale have driven the price of wind energy> > down, the UK is set 
for a massive expansion of clean energy.> > For more information about wind 
energy in Europe read this report> > commissioned by the European Union in 
2004. Also visit www.ewea.org our> > European sister organisation.> > They 
speak in terms of TWh - I need to look up what that is past MW.> > The 
exploitable onshore wind resource for the EU-25 is> > conservatively estimated 
at 600 TWh and the offshore> > wind resource up to 3,000 TWh; the upper end of 
this far> > exceeding the EU-15's entire electricity consumption.> > The 
European Wind Atlas produced by the Danish national> > research laboratory, 
Forskningscenter Risø, gives a> > good overview of the EU potential. An 
offshore version is> > also available.> > 
-> Give 
this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com> For additional commands, e-mail: 
ot-h...@texascavers.com> 

Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

[quinta]

'no new refineries have'  I think that was what the big deal was when they lost 
one in Rita. Not enough capacity. 

Re: [ot_caving] crime in the city

[Don Cooper]

Tragically funny -
the statement about the world in the future "being a grim place for my
children and my children's children" is almost like a self fulfilling
prophecy.
If more people were truly serious about reducing their footprint -
they'd be committed to having no footprints following their own!
With NO progeny -
 -WaV-

On 6/20/08, Louise Power  wrote:
>
> You're right about the population. In 2000, there were just about 530,000
> people in PDX, making it the most populous city in Oregon and the third most
> populous city in the Northwest--we're not all that big up here. The
> demographics, however, are extremely varied (per Wiki,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland%2C_Oregon):
>
> As of 2000, there are 529,121 people residing in the city, organized into
> 223,737 households and 118,356 families. The population density is 3,939.2
> people per square mile (1,521/km²). There are 237,307 housing units at an
> average density of 1,766.7/sq mi (682.1/km²). The racial makeup of the city
> is 77.91% White, 6.64% African American, 6.33% Asian, 1.06% Native American,
> 0.38% Pacific Islander, 3.55% from other races, and 4.15% from two or more
> races. 6.81% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race. 15.3%
> were of German, 8.9% Irish and 8.8% English ancestry according to Census
> 2000. 83.3% spoke English, 5.6% Spanish, 2.0% Vietnamese and 1.3% Russian as
> their first language.
> So if Houston is so Dog-awful, why are you still living there. I don't know
> what you do for a living except blog, but surely your job is portable. By
> the way, where did you grow up that you had to walk to school in snow? Not
> Houston, obviously. And the house that I lived in when I lived in Houston
> went on the market last year for $300,000. I happen to know that it was sold
> to that owner for $15,000 in 1976.
>
> Sending out good thoughts to the universe,
>
> Louise
>> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:05:11 -0500> From: dlocklea...@gmail.com> To:
>> o...@texascavers.com> Subject: [ot_caving] crime in the city> > Louise,> >
>> In 1976, I used to walk 2 miles to elementary school in the snow> all by
>> myself. I crossed private property, hopped fences, chased> wild animals,
>> entered sewer tunnels, took short cuts across industrial> work zones.
>> Those were different times, or maybe I was extremely> lucky to survive
>> that.> > I can't imagine a kid doing those things today.> > Inner city
>> Houston 2008, is almost as bad as the Kurt Russell movie> "Escape From New
>> York." You don't walk or bicycle,in the 1st> ward, 2nd ward,> or 5th ward,
>> alone at night. Especially in the remote areas of those areas.> That is
>> were Search groups 1st go look for bodies.> > You would probably have to
>> spend $ 200,000 on a house to live in the> inner city and not be in the
>> ghetto. And the taxes would kill you.> > I have never been to Portand, but
>> I bet it doesn't have 5 million people within> a 100 mile radius.> > I
>> don't believe there is any town with a melting pot like Houston. We have>
>> every single nationality here. We maybe New York has more Puerto Ricans,>
>> or Jews or Catholics. But we have them beat on the Iranians, the Iraquis,>
>> the Pakistanis, the Mongolians, the Mexicans, the Guatamalans, the
>> Hondurans,> the Costa Ricans, the Panamanians, the Peruvians, the
>> Columbians, the> Equadorans, the Brazilians, the Chileans, Chinese, the
>> Japanese, the Koreans,> the Phillipinos, the Vietnamese, the Africans, the
>> African-Americans, etc.> > I just don't think what works in one town will
>> necessarily work in Houston.> Latinos don't like to sit next to Blacks on
>> the bus, especially if they are in> gangs.> > I think what I am trying to
>> say,> > is that I would rather live in Portland.> > David Locklear> >
>> ->
>> Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com> To unsubscribe,
>> e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> ot-h...@texascavers.com>

-
Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

[Don Cooper]

Here's an idea:
What about turning all of that electricity generated by a wind turbine
into hydrogen?
Right there in the wind turbine itself.  Using water and electrolysis.
If hydrogen truly is going to be the portable energy source (for fuel
cells) would it not make the most sense to produce the hydrogen at the
source rather than losing electrical energy as it is transmitted
through transmission lines?  (Producing massive amounts of hydrogen
would probably also be a great idea at the site of nuclear reactors.
Free oxygen released into the atmosphere would probably not hurt
either!)
The concept is already in play.  One interesting obstacle is what
occurs when metals are exposed to hydrogen.  I think the process is
called "hydrogenation" and it makes metal brittle and weak.  But
isolated from the tower by an isolating layer of plastic, the large
mast that makes the big wind turbine tower becomes a nice storage tank
for compressed hydrogen.
Compressing the metal tube from within would actually make the mast
stronger - but only up to the point that the stress might make the
tower stressed - but otherwise would make the tubular mast stiffer.

On 6/21/08, Louise Power  wrote:
>
> From what I hear, one of the really big problems in the US is that no new
> refineries have been built here in 30 years. What's up with that? Answer:
> NIMBY. Even if we get more oil, what are we going to do with it?
>
> Also, think oil shale and oil sands. I hear that they're doing some
> imaginative things with oil shale, such as heating it while it's still in
> the ground and then pumping from there rather than excavating huge holes in
> the ground.. Also, apparently Canada is right on top of the oil sands
> business.
>
>
> From: quinta@clearwire.netTo: power_lou...@hotmail.com;
> fh...@townandcountryins.com; ot@texascavers.comDate: Sat, 21 Jun 2008
> 06:56:29 -0500Subject: Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling
>
>
>
> Fritz,
> My complaint is that we started after many and did not devote enough
> government resources to it. Most of Europe did. Even Spain was ahead of us
> at one time and still is I think. We lost sight of the OPEC oil problem in a
> hurry. There is a new company in Idaho? (if my memory is right) that is from
> Spain and is building turbins. I think it opened in the last year. We are
> behind on a lot of this. The states that are doing well are the ones with
> state incentives. There was a new Senate hearing on this sort of thing  -
> ummm!
>
> This is from the BWEA in the UK.
>
> It is clear to see how much wind energy has taken off in some countries,
> notably Denmark, Germany and Spain, the first of which now gets 20% of it's
> electricity from wind turbines, compared to our 1%. However, the UK has the
> largest wind energy resources of any country in Europe, and now that the
> European market's economies of scale have driven the price of wind energy
> down, the UK is set for a massive expansion of clean energy.
> For more information about wind energy in Europe read this report
> commissioned by the European Union in 2004. Also visit www.ewea.org our
> European sister organisation.
> They speak in terms of TWh - I need to look up what that is past MW.
> The exploitable onshore wind resource for the EU-25 is
> conservatively estimated at 600 TWh and the offshore
> wind resource up to 3,000 TWh; the upper end of this far
> exceeding the EU-15's entire electricity consumption.
> The European Wind Atlas produced by the Danish national
> research laboratory, Forskningscenter Risø, gives a
> good overview of the EU potential. An offshore version is
> also available.

-
Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com

RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

[Louise Power]

>From what I hear, one of the really big problems in the US is that no new 
>refineries have been built here in 30 years. What's up with that? Answer: 
>NIMBY. Even if we get more oil, what are we going to do with it? 
 
Also, think oil shale and oil sands. I hear that they're doing some imaginative 
things with oil shale, such as heating it while it's still in the ground and 
then pumping from there rather than excavating huge holes in the ground.. Also, 
apparently Canada is right on top of the oil sands business.


From: quinta@clearwire.netTo: power_lou...@hotmail.com; 
fh...@townandcountryins.com; ot@texascavers.comDate: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:56:29 
-0500Subject: Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling



Fritz, 
My complaint is that we started after many and did not devote enough government 
resources to it. Most of Europe did. Even Spain was ahead of us at one time and 
still is I think. We lost sight of the OPEC oil problem in a hurry. There is a 
new company in Idaho? (if my memory is right) that is from Spain and is 
building turbins. I think it opened in the last year. We are behind on a lot of 
this. The states that are doing well are the ones with state incentives. There 
was a new Senate hearing on this sort of thing  - ummm! 
 
This is from the BWEA in the UK. 

It is clear to see how much wind energy has taken off in some countries, 
notably Denmark, Germany and Spain, the first of which now gets 20% of it's 
electricity from wind turbines, compared to our 1%. However, the UK has the 
largest wind energy resources of any country in Europe, and now that the 
European market's economies of scale have driven the price of wind energy down, 
the UK is set for a massive expansion of clean energy.
For more information about wind energy in Europe read this report commissioned 
by the European Union in 2004. Also visit www.ewea.org our European sister 
organisation.
They speak in terms of TWh - I need to look up what that is past MW. 
The exploitable onshore wind resource for the EU-25 is
conservatively estimated at 600 TWh and the offshore
wind resource up to 3,000 TWh; the upper end of this far
exceeding the EU-15’s entire electricity consumption.
The European Wind Atlas produced by the Danish national
research laboratory, Forskningscenter Risø, gives a
good overview of the EU potential. An offshore version is
also available.

Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

[Nico Escamilla]

KWh:kilowatt hour or 103 W·h
MWh: megawatt hour or 106 W·h
GWh: gigawatt hour or 109 W·h
TWh: TeraWatt hour or 1012 W·h

On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 6:56 AM,  wrote:

>  Fritz,
> My complaint is that we started after many and did not devote
> enough government resources to it. Most of Europe did. Even Spain was ahead
> of us at one time and still is I think. We lost sight of the OPEC oil
> problem in a hurry. There is a new company in Idaho? (if my memory is right)
> that is from Spain and is building turbins. I think it opened in the last
> year. We are behind on a lot of this. The states that are doing well are the
> ones with state incentives. There was a new Senate hearing on this sort of
> thing  - ummm!
>
> This is from the BWEA in the UK.
>
> It is clear to see how much wind energy has taken off in some countries,
> notably Denmark, Germany and Spain, the first of which now gets *20%* of
> it's electricity from wind turbines, compared to our 1%. However, the UK has
> the largest wind energy resources of any country in Europe, and now that the
> European market's economies of scale have driven the price of wind energy
> down, the UK is set for a massive expansion of clean energy.
>
> For more information about wind energy in Europe read this report
> commissioned by the European 
> Unionin 2004. Also visit
> www.ewea.org our European sister organisation.
>
> They speak in terms of TWh - I need to look up what that is past MW.
>
> The exploitable onshore wind resource for the EU-25 is
>
> conservatively estimated at 600 TWh and the offshore
>
> wind resource up to 3,000 TWh; the upper end of this far
>
> exceeding the EU-15's entire electricity consumption.
>
> The
> *European Wind Atlas *produced by the Danish national
>
> research laboratory, Forskningscenter Risø, gives a
>
> good overview of the EU potential. An offshore version is
>
> also available.
>

Re: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

[quinta]

Fritz, 
My complaint is that we started after many and did not devote enough government 
resources to it. Most of Europe did. Even Spain was ahead of us at one time and 
still is I think. We lost sight of the OPEC oil problem in a hurry. There is a 
new company in Idaho? (if my memory is right) that is from Spain and is 
building turbins. I think it opened in the last year. We are behind on a lot of 
this. The states that are doing well are the ones with state incentives. There 
was a new Senate hearing on this sort of thing  - ummm! 

This is from the BWEA in the UK. 
It is clear to see how much wind energy has taken off in some countries, 
notably Denmark, Germany and Spain, the first of which now gets 20% of it's 
electricity from wind turbines, compared to our 1%. However, the UK has the 
largest wind energy resources of any country in Europe, and now that the 
European market's economies of scale have driven the price of wind energy down, 
the UK is set for a massive expansion of clean energy.

For more information about wind energy in Europe read this report commissioned 
by the European Union in 2004. Also visit www.ewea.org our European sister 
organisation.

They speak in terms of TWh - I need to look up what that is past MW. 

The exploitable onshore wind resource for the EU-25 is

conservatively estimated at 600 TWh and the offshore

wind resource up to 3,000 TWh; the upper end of this far

exceeding the EU-15's entire electricity consumption.

The European Wind Atlas produced by the Danish national

research laboratory, Forskningscenter Risø, gives a

good overview of the EU potential. An offshore version is

also available.