RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Fritz Holt]

Texas Red (pink) granite or whatever it's called from these quarries is still 
the most beautiful. I think this because of out state capitol building, one of 
the most beautiful structures ever built by man. This same granite forms the 
base of our famed Galveston seawall. Viva Marble Falls and Texas!

Texan by birth.


From: John Brooks [mailto:jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:38 PM
To: Geary Schindel
Cc: Lyndon Tiu; Charles Goldsmith; mark.al...@l-3com.com; 
texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

That one was easy.I assumed the "Crownover" entrance was on land owned by 
Robert Crownoverwho is a well known resident of the Marble Falls 
area.and managed sales for the Cold Spring Granite Quarry just outside of 
town.

Before the ready availability of cheap Indian, Chinese and Brazilian 
granites.Robert presided over the "Granite Capital" of the US.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Geary Schindel 
mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org>> wrote:
Thanks all,

Looks like the mystery is solved.

g

From: lyndon@gmail.com 
[mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:26 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Geary Schindel;  
mark.al...@l-3com.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been through 
there a few times for the ICS.

Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless actions of 
some brain-dead cavers.
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
<wo...@justfamily.org>
 wrote:
Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster are 
about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out of 
state or out of country :)

Charles


--
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[John Brooks]

That one was easy.I assumed the "Crownover" entrance was on land owned by 
Robert Crownoverwho is a well known resident of the Marble Falls 
area.and managed sales for the Cold Spring Granite Quarry just outside of 
town.

Before the ready availability of cheap Indian, Chinese and Brazilian 
granites.Robert presided over the "Granite Capital" of the US.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Geary Schindel  
wrote:

Thanks all,

 

Looks like the mystery is solved.

 

g

 

From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:26 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Geary Schindel; mark.al...@l-3com.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

 

Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been through 
there a few times for the ICS. 

Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless actions of 
some brain-dead cavers.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith  wrote:

Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster are 
about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out of 
state or out of country :)

 

Charles




-- 
Lyndon Tiu

[Texascavers] Memorial Service for Rebecca O'Daniel-Hutchins‏ traffic alert

[Rick Corbell]

 

 

The transguide signs around San Antonio are displaying a notice of road work at 
Perrin-Bietel and Westbound Loop 410 tomorrow.  If it gets like previous 
closures there, it could mean a 45 minute delay coming off 35 Southbound onto 
410 West. If you are coming from the north you should consider mapping the 
route from 35 South to 281 south via 1604 West.  I live near 35 and 1604 and 
will be using the suggested route.  I'll take 281 to Hildebrand then east to 
Broadway then north to the church at 6201 Broadway.  Its kind of the long way, 
but I don't like messing with 410 at times like this.   


Don't worry if you get delayed, the reception will be in the hall at the church 
after the service.


Rick Corbell
 


 

  
_
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your 
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

texascavers Digest 18 Jun 2010 19:09:51 -0000 Issue 1084

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 18 Jun 2010 19:09:51 - Issue 1084

Topics (messages 15156 through 15172):

Re: Underground Caves
15156 by: speleosteele.tx.rr.com
15157 by: Fritz Holt

Re: a cave question (Cave Entrance Tags)
15158 by: Saj Zappitello

Memorial Service for Rebecca O'Daniel-Hutchins
15159 by: Fran Hutchins

Blind Descent Author on Jon Stewart
15160 by: Matt Turner

OT Luling
15161 by: Nico Escamilla

US FWS WNS Briefing in DC
15162 by: R D Milhollin

YouTube related
15163 by: David

Kickapoo Cavern State Park Now Open  :
15164 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com

Texas Cavers Poster
15165 by: Geary Schindel
15166 by: Charles Goldsmith
15167 by: Joe Ranzau
15168 by: Geary Schindel
15169 by: SS

Re: Bomber Gear site launch
15170 by: Glen Goldsmith
15171 by: Matt Turner

Re: Breaking into a Garage in 60 Seconds
15172 by: Fritz Holt

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


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--
--- Begin Message ---
There sure are a lot of above ground cavers!


 felicia vreeland  wrote: 
> Okay, since Ediger hasn't weighed in I'll ask. Are there alot of above
> ground caves?
> Felicia
> 
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Butch Fralia
> wrote:
> 
> >  Any central Texas experts on drilling into caves?
> >
> >
> >
> > This came to webmas...@cavetexas.org.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   I would like to get in touch with someone that knows about
> > underground caves. We have come across a cave while drilling for a water
> > well on our ranch in Central Texas. The cave starts around thirty feet under
> > the top soil; it maybe very large.  The drillers came across it four times
> > in past few years and has been about a mile apart from the drill
> > locations. They seem to think that it is eight feet in height. We already
> > have a nine inch hole drilled on location. If anyone is interested in
> > looking at the site and possibly exploring with a camera, please get in
> > touch with me.
> >
> > ranchhunte...@yahoo.com   Phone # 325-451-7120
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Felicia Vreeland
> http:www.universallivingwage.org
> http:www.housethehomeless.org
> PO Box 2312
> Austin, Texas 78768

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And a few below. R.I.P.

-Original Message-
From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com [mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:08 PM
To: Butch Fralia; felicia vreeland
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Underground Caves

There sure are a lot of above ground cavers!


 felicia vreeland  wrote: 
> Okay, since Ediger hasn't weighed in I'll ask. Are there alot of above
> ground caves?
> Felicia
> 
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Butch Fralia
> wrote:
> 
> >  Any central Texas experts on drilling into caves?
> >
> >
> >
> > This came to webmas...@cavetexas.org.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   I would like to get in touch with someone that knows about
> > underground caves. We have come across a cave while drilling for a water
> > well on our ranch in Central Texas. The cave starts around thirty feet under
> > the top soil; it maybe very large.  The drillers came across it four times
> > in past few years and has been about a mile apart from the drill
> > locations. They seem to think that it is eight feet in height. We already
> > have a nine inch hole drilled on location. If anyone is interested in
> > looking at the site and possibly exploring with a camera, please get in
> > touch with me.
> >
> > ranchhunte...@yahoo.com   Phone # 325-451-7120
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Felicia Vreeland
> http:www.universallivingwage.org
> http:www.housethehomeless.org
> PO Box 2312
> Austin, Texas 78768


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The "caves" off of 1604 have been explored as part of environmental
investigations having to do with roadway improvements by the Alamo Regional
Mobility Authority. Alamo RMA has been requesting public input for the
highway projects. Please visit their website www.alamorma.org/ for more
information and send them comments if you live in San Antonio or use the
highway system in San Antonio.

~Saj
*
There appear to be a small number of tagged caves between 281 and I-10
directly off of 1604 in the northern San Antonio area.

Does anyone know if these have been explored?
Some of them appear to have fresh piles of dirt/rocks at the entrances.


Leslie Bell*
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Memorial Service for Rebecca O'Daniel-Hutc

[ot_caving] FW: Fwd: Fw: Breaking into a Garage in 60 Seconds

[Fritz Holt]

A PUBLIC SERVICE SHORT VIDEO.
The glass windows make it even easier.


From: Carolyn [mailto:cj.l...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 12:44 PM
To: chri...@jacobeinvestments.com; c_stden...@sbcglobal.net; pmrg...@aol.com; 
badba...@sbcglobal.net; dixie7...@hotmail.com; Fritz Holt; 
garrett.l...@bms.com; gracea...@hotmail.com; gpl...@yahoo.com; 
hirsc...@sbcglobal.net; jayjay9...@aol.com; jas...@hotmail.com; 
jlepad...@att.net; gcrabtree...@comcast.net; kericrabt...@comcast.net; 
k...@wdc-construction.com; sue.ca...@ms.hctx.net
Subject: Fw: Fwd: Fw: Breaking into a Garage in 60 Seconds



-Forwarded Message-
From: James Liepke
Sent: Jun 18, 2010 8:26 AM
To: Dan Kibler , darrell loesch , Doyle Peterson , lee-sharon davis , Mike and 
Dee Rogers , Charles Rich , Frank Frazzitta , Jim James , Ron Munos , Wayne 
Young , Bud Metcalf , Patti Liepke , larry loft , Ken Lyon , kerry king , Al 
McGee , Richard Benzon , Richard Krocza
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Breaking into a Garage in 60 Seconds











Watch this and then go check your garage door...


Please look at your garage door

After our home inspection the inspector noted that our garage door had a dent 
in it.  Rhys and I were in the garage last night talking about it and trying to 
figure out how it got a dent in it.  Finally figured out someone tried to break 
in.  Then I searched youtube and found the below video.  Please watch it.  I 
took the pull string off of ours and zip tied the lever up to the slider.  Now 
you have to cut the zip tie in order to release the lever.  Please pass on.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMz1tXBVT1s






The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with 
Hotmail. Get 
busy.

Re: [ot_caving] Internet kill switch proposed for president

[Bill Bentley]

I can reboot the Internet and so can you ... its easy...

http://www.caver.net/reboot.html

LOL
  - Original Message - 
  From: Louise Power 
  To: Off-Topic Texas Cavers ; Rich Hanson 
  Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:28 AM
  Subject: [ot_caving] Internet kill switch proposed for president


  Is this a little like 1984?
  Internet Kill Switch Proposed For President

  The days of freedom on the Internet, even during a time of national crisis, 
may be coming to an under a new U.S. Senate bill. The legislation would grant 
the president emergency powers to seize control of or even shut down portions 
of the Internet during times of national emergency.

  It's been dubbed as an Internet "kill switch" the president could flip. 
However, the idea behind it is not new. A draft Senate proposal that CNET 
obtained in August allowed the White House to "declare a cybersecurity 
emergency," and another from Sens. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.V.) and Olympia Snowe 
(R-Maine) would have explicitly given the government the power to "order the 
disconnection" of certain networks or Web sites.

  The legislation announced Thursday says that companies such as broadband 
providers, search engines, or software firms that the government selects "shall 
immediately comply with any emergency measure or action developed" by the 
Department of Homeland Security. Anyone failing to comply would be fined.

  That emergency authority would allow the federal government to "preserve 
those networks and assets and our country and protect our people," Joe 
Lieberman, the primary sponsor of the measure and the chairman of the Homeland 
Security committee, told reporters on Thursday. Lieberman is an independent 
senator from Connecticut who caucuses with the Democrats.

  Lieberman's bill is formally titled the Protecting Cyberspace as a National 
Asset Act, or PCNAA. Under PCNAA, the federal government's power to force 
private companies to comply with emergency decrees would become unusually broad.

  Any company on a list created by Homeland Security that also "relies on" the 
Internet, the telephone system, or any other component of the U.S. "information 
infrastructure" would be subject to command by a new National Center for 
Cybersecurity and Communications (NCCC) that would be created inside Homeland 
Security.

  The only obvious limitation on the NCCC's emergency power is one paragraph in 
the Lieberman bill that appears to have grown out of the Bush-era flap over 
warrantless wiretapping. That limitation says that the NCCC cannot order 
broadband providers or other companies to "conduct surveillance" of Americans 
unless it's otherwise legally authorized.

  Lieberman said Thursday that enactment of his bill needed to be a top 
congressional priority. "For all of its 'user-friendly' allure, the Internet 
can also be a dangerous place with electronic pipelines that run directly into 
everything from our personal bank accounts to key infrastructure to government 
and industrial secrets," he said. "Our economic security, national security and 
public safety are now all at risk from new kinds of enemies--cyber-warriors, 
cyber-spies, cyber-terrorists and cyber-criminals."

  Lieberman's proposal would form a powerful and extensive new Homeland 
Security bureaucracy around the NCCC, including "no less" than two deputy 
directors, and liaison officers to the Defense Department, Justice Department, 
Commerce Department, and the Director of National Intelligence. (How much the 
NCCC director's duties would overlap with those of the existing assistant 
secretary for infrastructure protection is not clear.)

  The NCCC also would be granted the power to monitor the "security status" of 
private sector Web sites, broadband providers, and other Internet components. 
Lieberman's legislation requires the NCCC to provide "situational awareness of 
the security status" of the portions of the Internet that are inside the United 
States -- and also those portions in other countries that, if disrupted, could 
cause significant harm.

  Selected private companies would be required to participate in "information 
sharing" with the Feds. They must "certify in writing to the director" of the 
NCCC whether they have "developed and implemented" federally approved security 
measures, which could be anything from encryption to physical security 
mechanisms, or programming techniques that have been "approved by the 
director." The NCCC director can "issue an order" in cases of noncompliance.

  To sweeten the deal for industry groups, Lieberman has included a tantalizing 
offer absent from earlier drafts: immunity from civil lawsuits. If a software 
company's programming error costs customers billions, or a broadband provider 
intentionally cuts off its customers in response to a federal command, neither 
would be liable.

  If there's an "incident related to a cyber vulnerability" after the president 
has declared an emergency and the affected company h

Fwd: [ot_caving] Internet kill switch proposed for president

[Charles Goldsmith]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Louise Power 
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:28 AM
Subject: [ot_caving] Internet kill switch proposed for president
To: Off-Topic Texas Cavers , Rich Hanson <
rhan...@qwest.net>


 Is this a little like *1984*? Internet Kill Switch Proposed For President

The days of freedom on the Internet, even during a time of national crisis,
may be coming to an under a new U.S. Senate bill. The legislation would
grant the president emergency powers to seize control of or even shut down
portions of the Internet during times of national emergency.

It's been dubbed as an Internet "kill switch" the president could flip.
However, the idea behind it is not new. A draft Senate proposal that CNET
obtained in August allowed the White House to "declare a cybersecurity
emergency," and another from Sens. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.V.) and Olympia
Snowe (R-Maine) would have explicitly given the government the power to
"order the disconnection" of certain networks or Web sites.

The legislation announced Thursday says that companies such as broadband
providers, search engines, or software firms that the government selects
"shall immediately comply with any emergency measure or action developed" by
the Department of Homeland
Security.
Anyone failing to comply would be fined.

That emergency authority would allow the federal government to "preserve
those networks and assets and our country and protect our people," Joe
Lieberman, the primary sponsor of the measure and the chairman of the
Homeland Security committee, told reporters on Thursday. Lieberman is an
independent senator from Connecticut who caucuses with the Democrats.

Lieberman's bill is formally titled the Protecting Cyberspace as a National
Asset Act, or PCNAA. Under PCNAA, the federal government's power to force
private companies to comply with emergency decrees would become unusually
broad.

Any company on a list created by Homeland Security that also "relies on" the
Internet, the telephone system, or any other component of the U.S.
"information infrastructure" would be subject to command by a new National
Center for Cybersecurity and
Communications(NCCC)
that would be created inside Homeland Security.

The only obvious limitation on the NCCC's emergency power is one paragraph
in the Lieberman bill that appears to have grown out of the Bush-era flap
over warrantless wiretapping. That limitation says that the NCCC cannot
order broadband providers or other companies to "conduct surveillance" of
Americans unless it's otherwise legally authorized.

Lieberman said Thursday that enactment of his bill needed to be a top
congressional priority. "For all of its 'user-friendly' allure, the Internet
can also be a dangerous place with electronic pipelines that run directly
into everything from our personal bank accounts to key infrastructure to
government and industrial secrets," he said. "Our economic security,
national security and public safety are now all at risk from new kinds of
enemies--cyber-warriors, cyber-spies, cyber-terrorists and cyber-criminals."

Lieberman's proposal would form a powerful and extensive new Homeland
Security bureaucracy around the NCCC, including "no less" than two deputy
directors, and liaison officers to the Defense Department, Justice
Department, Commerce Department, and the Director of National Intelligence.
(How much the NCCC director's duties would overlap with those of the
existing assistant secretary for infrastructure protection is not clear.)

The NCCC also would be granted the power to monitor the "security status" of
private sector Web sites, broadband providers, and other Internet
components. Lieberman's legislation requires the NCCC to provide
"situational awareness of the security status" of the portions of the
Internet that are inside the United States -- and also those portions in
other countries that, if disrupted, could cause significant harm.

Selected private companies would be required to participate in "information
sharing" with the Feds. They must "certify in writing to the director" of
the NCCC whether they have "developed and implemented" federally approved
security measures, which could be anything from encryption to physical
security mechanisms, or programming techniques that have been "approved by
the director." The NCCC director can "issue an order" in cases of
noncompliance.

To sweeten the deal for industry groups, Lieberman has included a
tantalizing offer absent from earlier drafts: immunity from civil lawsuits.
If a 
softwarecompany's
programming error costs customers billions, or a broadband
provider intentionally cuts off its customers in response to a federal
command, neither would be liable.

If there's an "incident related to a cyber vul

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Charles Goldsmith]

No picture off hand, I have the poster at home.  Too bad they let their
website lapse and someone snatched it up.


On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:40 AM,  wrote:

>  Does someone have a picture of this poster?
>
>
>
> I guess I’m unaware of this and can’t remember what it looks like?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> *From:* Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2010 10:37 AM
> *To:* Lyndon Tiu; Charles Goldsmith
> *Cc:* Alman, Mark @ EOS
>
> *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster
>
>
>
> Geeezzz,
>
>
>
> Mark, sounds like you might want to give it a couple more years so the
> operators can either find new jobs or die.
>
>
>
> LOL,
>
>
>
> Geary
>
>
>
> *From:* lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *Lyndon
> Tiu
> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2010 10:27 AM
> *To:* Charles Goldsmith
> *Cc:* mark.al...@l-3com.com; Geary Schindel
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster
>
>
>
> Now I remember. The 3rd incident was trouble with the key, as Ellie
> mentioned in her email to Mark.
>
> But also, there was the fajita incident during the ICS itself. The Longhorn
> concession restaurant prepared a fajita buffet for 100 people, for the ICS
> cavers visiting Longhorn on the first Sunday of the ICS.
>
> The trip that Sunday was cancelled because only 3 people signed up. We had
> large turn-outs of  20+ cavers on Longhorn trips on subsequent days during
> the ICS, but not that first Sunday.
>
> So on that fateful Sunday, the Longhorn restaurant had a huge fajita buffet
> for a 100 cavers and no cavers showed up, ouch!
>
>  On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
> wrote:
>
> Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were
> there for the tank haul.
>
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Mark . Alman]

Does someone have a picture of this poster?

 

I guess I'm unaware of this and can't remember what it looks like?

 

 

 

Mark

 

From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org] 
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:37 AM
To: Lyndon Tiu; Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Alman, Mark @ EOS
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

 

Geeezzz,

 

Mark, sounds like you might want to give it a couple more years so the
operators can either find new jobs or die.

 

LOL,

 

Geary

 

From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:27 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Geary Schindel
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

 

Now I remember. The 3rd incident was trouble with the key, as Ellie
mentioned in her email to Mark. 

But also, there was the fajita incident during the ICS itself. The
Longhorn concession restaurant prepared a fajita buffet for 100 people,
for the ICS cavers visiting Longhorn on the first Sunday of the ICS. 

The trip that Sunday was cancelled because only 3 people signed up. We
had large turn-outs of  20+ cavers on Longhorn trips on subsequent days
during the ICS, but not that first Sunday. 

So on that fateful Sunday, the Longhorn restaurant had a huge fajita
buffet for a 100 cavers and no cavers showed up, ouch!



On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith
 wrote:

Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were
there for the tank haul.



-- 
Lyndon Tiu

Re: CONFIRM subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com

[Charles Goldsmith]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:22 AM,  wrote:

> Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
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>
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[ot_caving] Internet kill switch proposed for president

[Louise Power]

Is this a little like 1984?
Internet Kill Switch Proposed For President
 

The days of freedom on the Internet, even during a time of national crisis, may 
be coming to an under a new U.S. Senate bill. The legislation would grant the 
president emergency powers to seize control of or even shut down portions of 
the Internet during times of national emergency.It's been dubbed as an Internet 
"kill switch" the president could flip. However, the idea behind it is not new. 
A draft Senate proposal that CNET obtained in August allowed the White House to 
"declare a cybersecurity emergency," and another from Sens. Jay Rockefeller 
(D-W.V.) and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) would have explicitly given the government 
the power to "order the disconnection" of certain networks or Web sites.The 
legislation announced Thursday says that companies such as broadband providers, 
search engines, or software firms that the government selects "shall 
immediately comply with any emergency measure or action developed" by the 
Department of Homeland Security. Anyone failing to comply would be fined.That 
emergency authority would allow the federal government to "preserve those 
networks and assets and our country and protect our people," Joe Lieberman, the 
primary sponsor of the measure and the chairman of the Homeland Security 
committee, told reporters on Thursday. Lieberman is an independent senator from 
Connecticut who caucuses with the Democrats.Lieberman's bill is formally titled 
the Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act, or PCNAA. Under PCNAA, the 
federal government's power to force private companies to comply with emergency 
decrees would become unusually broad.Any company on a list created by Homeland 
Security that also "relies on" the Internet, the telephone system, or any other 
component of the U.S. "information infrastructure" would be subject to command 
by a new National Center for Cybersecurity and Communications (NCCC) that would 
be created inside Homeland Security.The only obvious limitation on the NCCC's 
emergency power is one paragraph in the Lieberman bill that appears to have 
grown out of the Bush-era flap over warrantless wiretapping. That limitation 
says that the NCCC cannot order broadband providers or other companies to 
"conduct surveillance" of Americans unless it's otherwise legally 
authorized.Lieberman said Thursday that enactment of his bill needed to be a 
top congressional priority. "For all of its 'user-friendly' allure, the 
Internet can also be a dangerous place with electronic pipelines that run 
directly into everything from our personal bank accounts to key infrastructure 
to government and industrial secrets," he said. "Our economic security, 
national security and public safety are now all at risk from new kinds of 
enemies--cyber-warriors, cyber-spies, cyber-terrorists and 
cyber-criminals."Lieberman's proposal would form a powerful and extensive new 
Homeland Security bureaucracy around the NCCC, including "no less" than two 
deputy directors, and liaison officers to the Defense Department, Justice 
Department, Commerce Department, and the Director of National Intelligence. 
(How much the NCCC director's duties would overlap with those of the existing 
assistant secretary for infrastructure protection is not clear.)The NCCC also 
would be granted the power to monitor the "security status" of private sector 
Web sites, broadband providers, and other Internet components. Lieberman's 
legislation requires the NCCC to provide "situational awareness of the security 
status" of the portions of the Internet that are inside the United States -- 
and also those portions in other countries that, if disrupted, could cause 
significant harm.Selected private companies would be required to participate in 
"information sharing" with the Feds. They must "certify in writing to the 
director" of the NCCC whether they have "developed and implemented" federally 
approved security measures, which could be anything from encryption to physical 
security mechanisms, or programming techniques that have been "approved by the 
director." The NCCC director can "issue an order" in cases of noncompliance.To 
sweeten the deal for industry groups, Lieberman has included a tantalizing 
offer absent from earlier drafts: immunity from civil lawsuits. If a software 
company's programming error costs customers billions, or a broadband provider 
intentionally cuts off its customers in response to a federal command, neither 
would be liable.If there's an "incident related to a cyber vulnerability" after 
the president has declared an emergency and the affected company has followed 
federal standards, plaintiffs' lawyers cannot collect damages for economic 
harm. And if the harm is caused by an emergency order from the Feds, not only 
does the possibility of damages virtually disappear, but the U.S. Treasury will 
even pick up the private company's tab.   

CONFIRM subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com

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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:22:00 -0500
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On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:18 AM,  wrote:

> Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
> texascavers@texascavers.com mailing list.
>
> I'm working for my owner, who can be reached
> at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com.
>
> To confirm that you would like
>
>   tidwell...@gmail.com
>
> added to the texascavers mailing list, please send
> an empty reply to this address:
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>
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> If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into
> the "To:" field of a new message.
>
> This confirmation serves two purposes. First, it verifies that I am able
> to get mail through to you. Second, it protects you in case someone
> forges a subscription request in your name.
>
> Some mail programs are broken and cannot handle long addresses. If you
> cannot reply to this request, instead send a message to
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> To su

RE: Longhorn

[Geary Schindel]

Sounds good to me, I've been hassling one of the brits that works here over the 
tie last weekend.  Of course, Jon Stewart did an excellent job covering it.

Geary

From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:59 AM
To: Geary Schindel
Cc: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu; Bill Steele; mark.al...@l-3com.com; 
Charles Goldsmith
Subject: Re: Longhorn

Geary,

The can of worms you opened !!!

I'm going to change the subject: USA 2:2 Slovenia !!!

Now I want to see Algeria beat England, game starts at 1:30pm Central.
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Bill Steele 
mailto:bill.ste...@scouting.org>> wrote:
Lyndon,

You wrote:

// Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless actions 
of some brain-dead cavers. //

Please tell me about that. What happened? That wasn't that tank haul trip to 
the sump, was it, when we parked at the wrong gate?

Bill



--
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Bomber Gear site launch

[Matt Turner]

http://www.innermountainoutfitters.net/catalogentry.php?subcategoryid=12&page=1&catalogentryid=780&brand=Crawldaddies
 Matt Turner 


"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without 
accepting it." - Aristotle


"Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do 
that."- Norman Vincent Peale 





From: Glen Goldsmith 
To: Cavers Texas 
Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 10:59:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Bomber Gear site launch

I emailed the email listed at the crawldaddies website.. no response yet.


On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Mallory Mayeux  wrote:

I was SUPEREXCITED to see this...I love Bomber Gear kneepads! 
>
>However, I called them back in January '09 b/c there wasn't any caving gear 
>available on their website, and they said knee/elbow pads would be ready by 
>April of that year. So I'm a little bit cynical, but hopefully they will be up 
>and running soon. 
>
>Until then, Crawldaddies are an excellent substitute. :) 
>Mallory
>
>



  

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Bomber Gear site launch

[Glen Goldsmith]

I emailed the email listed at the crawldaddies website.. no response
yet.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Mallory Mayeux  wrote:

> I was SUPEREXCITED to see this...I love Bomber Gear kneepads!
>
> However, I called them back in January '09 b/c there wasn't any caving gear
> available on their website, and they said knee/elbow pads would be ready by
> April of that year. So I'm a little bit cynical, but hopefully they will be
> up and running soon.
>
> Until then, Crawldaddies are an excellent substitute. :)
>
> Mallory
>
>

Re: Longhorn

[Lyndon Tiu]

Geary,

The can of worms you opened !!!

I'm going to change the subject: USA 2:2 Slovenia !!!

Now I want to see Algeria beat England, game starts at 1:30pm Central.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Bill Steele wrote:

> Lyndon,
>
> You wrote:
>
> // Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless
> actions of some brain-dead cavers. //
>
> Please tell me about that. What happened? That wasn't that tank haul trip
> to the sump, was it, when we parked at the wrong gate?
>
> Bill
>
>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[SS]

We just dug it back open here recently!  Well, I guess its been over a year.
Fantastic through trip for anyone who has not visited the cave. 

 

  _  

From: jran...@gmail.com [mailto:jran...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Joe Ranzau
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:25 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

 

I recall a Crownover entrance to Longhorn Caverns too...

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
wrote:

Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster
are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out
of state or out of country :)

 

Charles

 

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Geary Schindel
 wrote:

Joe, Grace, Geoff, or Aimee, or anyone else

 

I was asked a very interesting question today about the Texas Cavers poster.
What cave is representative by the cave map at the top of the poster.

 

It has a Crownover Entrance listed on the map but no name.  Is this
Crownover Saltpeter Cave in Alabama LOL.

 

Geary

 

 

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Geary Schindel]

Regarding the vehicle issue, the way this gets solved in Alabama is when 
someone blocks a gate or even an old 4 wheel drive road, the offending vehicle 
is pushed off the road or rolled down the hill and out of the way.  See, this 
solves the need to call law enforcement and saves a lot of time.  However, if 
your vehicle is just plain stuck, and you're there trying to fix the problem, 
then that becomes a challenge for any Good ole boys coming by and everyone is 
glad to jump in and help.

Moral to the story is to never block a gate or road unless specifically told it 
is ok to my the owner and even then, don't do it.

G




From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:27 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Geary Schindel
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

Now I remember. The 3rd incident was trouble with the key, as Ellie mentioned 
in her email to Mark.

But also, there was the fajita incident during the ICS itself. The Longhorn 
concession restaurant prepared a fajita buffet for 100 people, for the ICS 
cavers visiting Longhorn on the first Sunday of the ICS.

The trip that Sunday was cancelled because only 3 people signed up. We had 
large turn-outs of  20+ cavers on Longhorn trips on subsequent days during the 
ICS, but not that first Sunday.

So on that fateful Sunday, the Longhorn restaurant had a huge fajita buffet for 
a 100 cavers and no cavers showed up, ouch!


On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
mailto:wo...@justfamily.org>> wrote:
Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were there 
for the tank haul.

--
Lyndon Tiu

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Geary Schindel]

Geeezzz,

Mark, sounds like you might want to give it a couple more years so the 
operators can either find new jobs or die.

LOL,

Geary

From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:27 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Geary Schindel
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

Now I remember. The 3rd incident was trouble with the key, as Ellie mentioned 
in her email to Mark.

But also, there was the fajita incident during the ICS itself. The Longhorn 
concession restaurant prepared a fajita buffet for 100 people, for the ICS 
cavers visiting Longhorn on the first Sunday of the ICS.

The trip that Sunday was cancelled because only 3 people signed up. We had 
large turn-outs of  20+ cavers on Longhorn trips on subsequent days during the 
ICS, but not that first Sunday.

So on that fateful Sunday, the Longhorn restaurant had a huge fajita buffet for 
a 100 cavers and no cavers showed up, ouch!


On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
mailto:wo...@justfamily.org>> wrote:
Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were there 
for the tank haul.

--
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Lyndon Tiu]

Now I remember. The 3rd incident was trouble with the key, as Ellie
mentioned in her email to Mark.

But also, there was the fajita incident during the ICS itself. The Longhorn
concession restaurant prepared a fajita buffet for 100 people, for the ICS
cavers visiting Longhorn on the first Sunday of the ICS.

The trip that Sunday was cancelled because only 3 people signed up. We had
large turn-outs of  20+ cavers on Longhorn trips on subsequent days during
the ICS, but not that first Sunday.

So on that fateful Sunday, the Longhorn restaurant had a huge fajita buffet
for a 100 cavers and no cavers showed up, ouch!



On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were
> there for the tank haul.
>

-- 
Lyndon Tiu

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Mark . Alman]

 

Should I give them a holler, Lyndon, or skip it?

 

 

It might be fun, especially, if we limit the size of the group and throw
some $$ Longhorn's way.

 

 

I'll even ramrod it for you.

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:15 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Alman, Mark @ EOS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

 


I get stressed out every trip to Longhorn. Herding cavers and managing
relationships with the concession managers is tough.



On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Charles Goldsmith
 wrote:

Sounds like just a lack of communication problem.  The tank haul was my
first trip to Longhorn (was too busy during ICS to go), and everything
seemed to go ok, except for GP getting a bit turned around while trying
to find the back entrance.

 

No worries Lyndon, I just hate to see things go bad with
landowners/management and from my perspective as another person on the
tank crew, things seemed to go well.

 

Charles

 

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:46 AM,  wrote:

Here's what Ellie reported back then, Charles.

 

 

 

 

 

From: ellie.tho...@gmail.com [mailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:48 AM
To: Alman, Mark @ IRP; Lyndon Tiu; George-Paul Richmann
Subject: Re: August 22nd Longhorn Results

 

I went to turn the waivers to the park in the morning and talked to
Steve, the manager and told them I was with Mark Almans group and wanted
to get the key. He seemed to have no clue we were coming and was very
jumpy. He was asking me if we knew what we were doing, how does he know
were not going to get lost and does he need to send guides with us to
make sure we make it out, etc. He told me he had no clue who I was and
why should he let me in the cave. I respectfully explained to him that I
have been to the cave, that I know the way, that everyone is experience
and fully geared, and that I was the leader. He seemed to calm down when
he realized I knew what was going on. 

They still will not let us leave the key in the cave. Steve was very
atimate about that seemed like he was not aware of any conversation or
agreement we had to keep the key in the cave.

None of us(GP, Edwin, or me) could remember exactly where to park. Once
I got out of the trough trip, I went to where the cars should have been
parked(easier to recognize from the entrance) and asked where the cars
were, Roger said they were parked infront of a gate. I walked w/ Roger
to get at least one vehicle closer.

In the meantime the property owner tried to get a trailier out his gate
and could not so called the cops and the sheriff went to the park
owners. The park owners went and found Bonnie, I was not there because I
had gone back in the cave. Bonnie said they gave us a nice chewing and
gave her alot of attitude. Also, I guess she talked to a woman named
michelle, some sort of manager, who had no clue we were coming and did
not know why we were there or what the signifigance of a dive was. She
was also asking why you were not there. She said that the lady kindof
backed off when Bonnie mentioned doing survey. I went and talked to the
lady later and cleared things up and appologized for the confusion, said
we would make sure to park in the correct spot.

I told them Peter was still working on the map and explained that we
just finished the survey right before ICS. They said they are waiting
for the map and really want it.

So, thats that. I am glad to have had the experience of it. 

Ellie

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] 
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:43 AM
To: Lyndon Tiu


Cc: Geary Schindel; Alman, Mark @ EOS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

 

Lyndon, I don't know if you were there that trip, but we weren't
blocking a private "driveway".  There are a total of 3 (maybe more)
gates into that property (its a pasture), and yes, we were in front of
one of them, and certainly not all 3.  I think the owner was just being
an ass, I'm not sure, I wasn't present when the Sheriff showed, I was
still in the cave.  My truck was one of 3 or 4 that was there, and
nothing was said to me directly about my truck being in the wrong place.

 

I hadn't heard about the latter incident, no one mentioned it at dinner
that night.

 

Mark, this wasn't posted to cavetex, so we should be good :)

 

Charles

 

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

Funny, you didn't notice some people parked in front of the wrong gate
and blocked access to a private driveway, and the local sheriff was
called?

Also, didn't you notice someone left their bags on the wrong end of the
cave since they did not understand what was meant by a through-trip
(i.e. one-way) and had to call the concession manager to open the gate
for them after office hours so they can get their bags?

There was one more thing that happened that day I don't remember,
anyways, a string of booboos that really got the n

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Lyndon Tiu]

I get stressed out every trip to Longhorn. Herding cavers and managing
relationships with the concession managers is tough.


On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> Sounds like just a lack of communication problem.  The tank haul was my
> first trip to Longhorn (was too busy during ICS to go), and everything
> seemed to go ok, except for GP getting a bit turned around while trying to
> find the back entrance.
>
> No worries Lyndon, I just hate to see things go bad with
> landowners/management and from my perspective as another person on the tank
> crew, things seemed to go well.
>
> Charles
>
>
>  On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:46 AM,  wrote:
>
>>  Here’s what Ellie reported back then, Charles.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ellie.tho...@gmail.com [mailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 11:48 AM
>> *To:* Alman, Mark @ IRP; Lyndon Tiu; George-Paul Richmann
>> *Subject:* Re: August 22nd Longhorn Results
>>
>>
>>
>> I went to turn the waivers to the park in the morning and talked to Steve,
>> the manager and told them I was with Mark Almans group and wanted to get the
>> key. He seemed to have no clue we were coming and was very jumpy. He was
>> asking me if we knew what we were doing, how does he know were not going to
>> get lost and does he need to send guides with us to make sure we make it
>> out, etc. He told me he had no clue who I was and why should he let me in
>> the cave. I respectfully explained to him that I have been to the cave, that
>> I know the way, that everyone is experience and fully geared, and that I was
>> the leader. He seemed to calm down when he realized I knew what was going
>> on.
>>
>> They still will not let us leave the key in the cave. Steve was very
>> atimate about that seemed like he was not aware of any conversation or
>> agreement we had to keep the key in the cave.
>>
>> None of us(GP, Edwin, or me) could remember exactly where to park. Once I
>> got out of the trough trip, I went to where the cars should have been
>> parked(easier to recognize from the entrance) and asked where the cars were,
>> Roger said they were parked infront of a gate. I walked w/ Roger to get at
>> least one vehicle closer.
>>
>> In the meantime the property owner tried to get a trailier out his gate
>> and could not so called the cops and the sheriff went to the park owners.
>> The park owners went and found Bonnie, I was not there because I had gone
>> back in the cave. Bonnie said they gave us a nice chewing and gave her alot
>> of attitude. Also, I guess she talked to a woman named michelle, some sort
>> of manager, who had no clue we were coming and did not know why we were
>> there or what the signifigance of a dive was. She was also asking why you
>> were not there. She said that the lady kindof backed off when Bonnie
>> mentioned doing survey. I went and talked to the lady later and cleared
>> things up and appologized for the confusion, said we would make sure to park
>> in the correct spot.
>>
>> I told them Peter was still working on the map and explained that we just
>> finished the survey right before ICS. They said they are waiting for the map
>> and really want it.
>>
>> So, thats that. I am glad to have had the experience of it.
>>
>> Ellie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2010 9:43 AM
>> *To:* Lyndon Tiu
>>
>> *Cc:* Geary Schindel; Alman, Mark @ EOS
>> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster
>>
>>
>>
>> Lyndon, I don't know if you were there that trip, but we weren't blocking
>> a private "driveway".  There are a total of 3 (maybe more) gates into that
>> property (its a pasture), and yes, we were in front of one of them, and
>> certainly not all 3.  I think the owner was just being an ass, I'm not sure,
>> I wasn't present when the Sheriff showed, I was still in the cave.  My truck
>> was one of 3 or 4 that was there, and nothing was said to me directly about
>> my truck being in the wrong place.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hadn't heard about the latter incident, no one mentioned it at dinner
>> that night.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark, this wasn't posted to cavetex, so we should be good :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:
>>
>> Funny, you didn't notice some people parked in front of the wrong gate and
>> blocked access to a private driveway, and the local sheriff was called?
>>
>> Also, didn't you notice someone left their bags on the wrong end of the
>> cave since they did not understand what was meant by a through-trip (i.e.
>> one-way) and had to call the concession manager to open the gate for them
>> after office hours so they can get their bags?
>>
>> There was one more thing that happened that day I don't remember, anyways,
>> a string of booboos that really got the nerves of the park operators, that
>> they decided if we come back next time, there would be a $$$ charge per
>> head, instea

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Charles Goldsmith]

Sounds like just a lack of communication problem.  The tank haul was my
first trip to Longhorn (was too busy during ICS to go), and everything
seemed to go ok, except for GP getting a bit turned around while trying to
find the back entrance.

No worries Lyndon, I just hate to see things go bad with
landowners/management and from my perspective as another person on the tank
crew, things seemed to go well.

Charles

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:46 AM,  wrote:

>  Here’s what Ellie reported back then, Charles.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ellie.tho...@gmail.com [mailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 11:48 AM
> *To:* Alman, Mark @ IRP; Lyndon Tiu; George-Paul Richmann
> *Subject:* Re: August 22nd Longhorn Results
>
>
>
> I went to turn the waivers to the park in the morning and talked to Steve,
> the manager and told them I was with Mark Almans group and wanted to get the
> key. He seemed to have no clue we were coming and was very jumpy. He was
> asking me if we knew what we were doing, how does he know were not going to
> get lost and does he need to send guides with us to make sure we make it
> out, etc. He told me he had no clue who I was and why should he let me in
> the cave. I respectfully explained to him that I have been to the cave, that
> I know the way, that everyone is experience and fully geared, and that I was
> the leader. He seemed to calm down when he realized I knew what was going
> on.
>
> They still will not let us leave the key in the cave. Steve was very
> atimate about that seemed like he was not aware of any conversation or
> agreement we had to keep the key in the cave.
>
> None of us(GP, Edwin, or me) could remember exactly where to park. Once I
> got out of the trough trip, I went to where the cars should have been
> parked(easier to recognize from the entrance) and asked where the cars were,
> Roger said they were parked infront of a gate. I walked w/ Roger to get at
> least one vehicle closer.
>
> In the meantime the property owner tried to get a trailier out his gate and
> could not so called the cops and the sheriff went to the park owners. The
> park owners went and found Bonnie, I was not there because I had gone back
> in the cave. Bonnie said they gave us a nice chewing and gave her alot of
> attitude. Also, I guess she talked to a woman named michelle, some sort of
> manager, who had no clue we were coming and did not know why we were there
> or what the signifigance of a dive was. She was also asking why you were not
> there. She said that the lady kindof backed off when Bonnie mentioned doing
> survey. I went and talked to the lady later and cleared things up and
> appologized for the confusion, said we would make sure to park in the
> correct spot.
>
> I told them Peter was still working on the map and explained that we just
> finished the survey right before ICS. They said they are waiting for the map
> and really want it.
>
> So, thats that. I am glad to have had the experience of it.
>
> Ellie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2010 9:43 AM
> *To:* Lyndon Tiu
>
> *Cc:* Geary Schindel; Alman, Mark @ EOS
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster
>
>
>
> Lyndon, I don't know if you were there that trip, but we weren't blocking a
> private "driveway".  There are a total of 3 (maybe more) gates into that
> property (its a pasture), and yes, we were in front of one of them, and
> certainly not all 3.  I think the owner was just being an ass, I'm not sure,
> I wasn't present when the Sheriff showed, I was still in the cave.  My truck
> was one of 3 or 4 that was there, and nothing was said to me directly about
> my truck being in the wrong place.
>
>
>
> I hadn't heard about the latter incident, no one mentioned it at dinner
> that night.
>
>
>
> Mark, this wasn't posted to cavetex, so we should be good :)
>
>
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:
>
> Funny, you didn't notice some people parked in front of the wrong gate and
> blocked access to a private driveway, and the local sheriff was called?
>
> Also, didn't you notice someone left their bags on the wrong end of the
> cave since they did not understand what was meant by a through-trip (i.e.
> one-way) and had to call the concession manager to open the gate for them
> after office hours so they can get their bags?
>
> There was one more thing that happened that day I don't remember, anyways,
> a string of booboos that really got the nerves of the park operators, that
> they decided if we come back next time, there would be a $$$ charge per
> head, instead of free.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
> wrote:
>
> Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were
> there for the tank haul.
>
>
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:
>
> Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, 

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Lyndon Tiu]

No hard feelings Charles. Partly my fault as I should have been there during
the tank haul to help organize the herd, but I was burned out from the ICS
and didn't want to go caving for a while.

I take this as a "funny" Texas caving moment. Nothing too serious, just a
very funny caving story in my opinion that I would bring it up every once in
a while to listening ears just to get a laugh out of it.

-- 
Lyndon Tiu

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Mark . Alman]

Here's what Ellie reported back then, Charles.

 

 

 

 

 

From: ellie.tho...@gmail.com [mailto:ellie.tho...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:48 AM
To: Alman, Mark @ IRP; Lyndon Tiu; George-Paul Richmann
Subject: Re: August 22nd Longhorn Results

 

I went to turn the waivers to the park in the morning and talked to
Steve, the manager and told them I was with Mark Almans group and wanted
to get the key. He seemed to have no clue we were coming and was very
jumpy. He was asking me if we knew what we were doing, how does he know
were not going to get lost and does he need to send guides with us to
make sure we make it out, etc. He told me he had no clue who I was and
why should he let me in the cave. I respectfully explained to him that I
have been to the cave, that I know the way, that everyone is experience
and fully geared, and that I was the leader. He seemed to calm down when
he realized I knew what was going on. 

They still will not let us leave the key in the cave. Steve was very
atimate about that seemed like he was not aware of any conversation or
agreement we had to keep the key in the cave.

None of us(GP, Edwin, or me) could remember exactly where to park. Once
I got out of the trough trip, I went to where the cars should have been
parked(easier to recognize from the entrance) and asked where the cars
were, Roger said they were parked infront of a gate. I walked w/ Roger
to get at least one vehicle closer.

In the meantime the property owner tried to get a trailier out his gate
and could not so called the cops and the sheriff went to the park
owners. The park owners went and found Bonnie, I was not there because I
had gone back in the cave. Bonnie said they gave us a nice chewing and
gave her alot of attitude. Also, I guess she talked to a woman named
michelle, some sort of manager, who had no clue we were coming and did
not know why we were there or what the signifigance of a dive was. She
was also asking why you were not there. She said that the lady kindof
backed off when Bonnie mentioned doing survey. I went and talked to the
lady later and cleared things up and appologized for the confusion, said
we would make sure to park in the correct spot.

I told them Peter was still working on the map and explained that we
just finished the survey right before ICS. They said they are waiting
for the map and really want it.

So, thats that. I am glad to have had the experience of it. 

Ellie



 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] 
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:43 AM
To: Lyndon Tiu
Cc: Geary Schindel; Alman, Mark @ EOS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

 

Lyndon, I don't know if you were there that trip, but we weren't
blocking a private "driveway".  There are a total of 3 (maybe more)
gates into that property (its a pasture), and yes, we were in front of
one of them, and certainly not all 3.  I think the owner was just being
an ass, I'm not sure, I wasn't present when the Sheriff showed, I was
still in the cave.  My truck was one of 3 or 4 that was there, and
nothing was said to me directly about my truck being in the wrong place.

 

I hadn't heard about the latter incident, no one mentioned it at dinner
that night.

 

Mark, this wasn't posted to cavetex, so we should be good :)

 

Charles

 

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

Funny, you didn't notice some people parked in front of the wrong gate
and blocked access to a private driveway, and the local sheriff was
called?

Also, didn't you notice someone left their bags on the wrong end of the
cave since they did not understand what was meant by a through-trip
(i.e. one-way) and had to call the concession manager to open the gate
for them after office hours so they can get their bags?

There was one more thing that happened that day I don't remember,
anyways, a string of booboos that really got the nerves of the park
operators, that they decided if we come back next time, there would be a
$$$ charge per head, instead of free.

 

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith
 wrote:

Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were
there for the tank haul.

 

Charles

 

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been
through there a few times for the ICS. 

Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless
actions of some brain-dead cavers.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith
 wrote:

Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie
and poster are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well
be one from out of state or out of country :)

 

Charles





-- 
Lyndon Tiu

 





-- 
Lyndon Tiu

 

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Geary Schindel]

Sorry about that guys,

I won't comment any more.

Geary

From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:41 AM
To: Lyndon Tiu; Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Geary Schindel
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster


Talk about great minds thinking alike, Lyndon.


I have been thinking the last couple of weeks of contacting the folks down 
there to see if they would be agreeable into allowing a group thru trip.

My only concern would be the passageway we dug out and to see if it had silted 
back in.


I do agree with you that the last trip there was kind of a cluster f*** and I 
kick myself for not going down there to ride herd.

All may not be totally lost and maybe we can get a "group discount" from them.

I could give them a shout and try to smooth things over.



Whaddya think and let's keep this off of TexasCavers.



Mark





From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:34 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Geary Schindel; Alman, Mark @ EOS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

Funny, you didn't notice some people parked in front of the wrong gate and 
blocked access to a private driveway, and the local sheriff was called?

Also, didn't you notice someone left their bags on the wrong end of the cave 
since they did not understand what was meant by a through-trip (i.e. one-way) 
and had to call the concession manager to open the gate for them after office 
hours so they can get their bags?

There was one more thing that happened that day I don't remember, anyways, a 
string of booboos that really got the nerves of the park operators, that they 
decided if we come back next time, there would be a $$$ charge per head, 
instead of free.
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
mailto:wo...@justfamily.org>> wrote:
Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were there 
for the tank haul.

Charles

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu 
mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca>> wrote:
Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been through 
there a few times for the ICS.

Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless actions of 
some brain-dead cavers.
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
mailto:wo...@justfamily.org>> wrote:
Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster are 
about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out of 
state or out of country :)

Charles


--
Lyndon Tiu




--
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Charles Goldsmith]

Lyndon, I don't know if you were there that trip, but we weren't blocking a
private "driveway".  There are a total of 3 (maybe more) gates into that
property (its a pasture), and yes, we were in front of one of them, and
certainly not all 3.  I think the owner was just being an ass, I'm not sure,
I wasn't present when the Sheriff showed, I was still in the cave.  My truck
was one of 3 or 4 that was there, and nothing was said to me directly about
my truck being in the wrong place.

I hadn't heard about the latter incident, no one mentioned it at dinner that
night.

Mark, this wasn't posted to cavetex, so we should be good :)

Charles


On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

> Funny, you didn't notice some people parked in front of the wrong gate and
> blocked access to a private driveway, and the local sheriff was called?
>
> Also, didn't you notice someone left their bags on the wrong end of the
> cave since they did not understand what was meant by a through-trip (i.e.
> one-way) and had to call the concession manager to open the gate for them
> after office hours so they can get their bags?
>
> There was one more thing that happened that day I don't remember, anyways,
> a string of booboos that really got the nerves of the park operators, that
> they decided if we come back next time, there would be a $$$ charge per
> head, instead of free.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
> wrote:
>
>> Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were
>> there for the tank haul.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:
>>
>>> Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been
>>> through there a few times for the ICS.
>>>
>>> Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless
>>> actions of some brain-dead cavers.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith >> > wrote:
>>>
 Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and
 poster are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one
 from out of state or out of country :)

 Charles


>>> --
>>> Lyndon Tiu
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Lyndon Tiu]

My comment about:

"Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless
actions of some brain-dead cavers."

Wasn't meant to go out to the whole world ... argh, don't forward the thing
to the texascavers email list! Now I am a marked man for calling some cavers
brain dead.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Geary Schindel <
gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org> wrote:

>  Thanks all,
>
>
>
> Looks like the mystery is solved.
>
>
>
> g
>
>
>
> *From:* lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *Lyndon
> Tiu
> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2010 9:26 AM
> *To:* Charles Goldsmith
> *Cc:* Geary Schindel; mark.al...@l-3com.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster
>
>
>
> Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been
> through there a few times for the ICS.
>
> Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless
> actions of some brain-dead cavers.
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
> wrote:
>
> Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster
> are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out
> of state or out of country :)
>
>
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>



-- 
Lyndon Tiu

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Mark . Alman]

 

Talk about great minds thinking alike, Lyndon.

 

 

I have been thinking the last couple of weeks of contacting the folks
down there to see if they would be agreeable into allowing a group thru
trip.

 

My only concern would be the passageway we dug out and to see if it had
silted back in.

 

 

I do agree with you that the last trip there was kind of a cluster f***
and I kick myself for not going down there to ride herd.

 

All may not be totally lost and maybe we can get a "group discount" from
them.

 

I could give them a shout and try to smooth things over.

 

 

 

Whaddya think and let's keep this off of TexasCavers.

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:34 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Geary Schindel; Alman, Mark @ EOS
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

 

Funny, you didn't notice some people parked in front of the wrong gate
and blocked access to a private driveway, and the local sheriff was
called?

Also, didn't you notice someone left their bags on the wrong end of the
cave since they did not understand what was meant by a through-trip
(i.e. one-way) and had to call the concession manager to open the gate
for them after office hours so they can get their bags?

There was one more thing that happened that day I don't remember,
anyways, a string of booboos that really got the nerves of the park
operators, that they decided if we come back next time, there would be a
$$$ charge per head, instead of free.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith
 wrote:

Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were
there for the tank haul.

 

Charles

 

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been
through there a few times for the ICS. 

Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless
actions of some brain-dead cavers.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith
 wrote:

Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie
and poster are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well
be one from out of state or out of country :)

 

Charles





-- 
Lyndon Tiu

 




-- 
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Lyndon Tiu]

Funny, you didn't notice some people parked in front of the wrong gate and
blocked access to a private driveway, and the local sheriff was called?

Also, didn't you notice someone left their bags on the wrong end of the cave
since they did not understand what was meant by a through-trip (i.e.
one-way) and had to call the concession manager to open the gate for them
after office hours so they can get their bags?

There was one more thing that happened that day I don't remember, anyways, a
string of booboos that really got the nerves of the park operators, that
they decided if we come back next time, there would be a $$$ charge per
head, instead of free.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were
> there for the tank haul.
>
> Charles
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:
>
>> Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been
>> through there a few times for the ICS.
>>
>> Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless
>> actions of some brain-dead cavers.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster
>>> are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out
>>> of state or out of country :)
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Lyndon Tiu
>>
>
>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Geary Schindel]

Thanks all,

Looks like the mystery is solved.

g

From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon Tiu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:26 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Geary Schindel; mark.al...@l-3com.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been through 
there a few times for the ICS.

Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless actions of 
some brain-dead cavers.
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
mailto:wo...@justfamily.org>> wrote:
Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster are 
about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out of 
state or out of country :)

Charles


--
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Charles Goldsmith]

Care to elaborate?  I wasn't aware of any issues the last time we were there
for the tank haul.

Charles

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

> Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been
> through there a few times for the ICS.
>
> Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless
> actions of some brain-dead cavers.
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith 
> wrote:
>
>> Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster
>> are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out
>> of state or out of country :)
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Lyndon Tiu]

Definitely Longhorn. I recognize the map like the back of my hand, been
through there a few times for the ICS.

Of course, we lost access to that excellent cave due to the careless actions
of some brain-dead cavers.

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster
> are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out
> of state or out of country :)
>
> Charles
>
>
-- 
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Joe Ranzau]

I recall a Crownover entrance to Longhorn Caverns too...

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster
> are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out
> of state or out of country :)
>
> Charles
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Geary Schindel <
> gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org> wrote:
>
>>  Joe, Grace, Geoff, or Aimee, or anyone else
>>
>>
>>
>> I was asked a very interesting question today about the Texas Cavers
>> poster.  What cave is representative by the cave map at the top of the
>> poster.
>>
>>
>>
>> It has a Crownover Entrance listed on the map but no name.  Is this
>> Crownover Saltpeter Cave in Alabama LOL.
>>
>>
>>
>> Geary
>>
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Charles Goldsmith]

Geary, I don't know the answer to your question, but the movie and poster
are about Texas Cavers, not Texas Caves, it could very well be one from out
of state or out of country :)

Charles

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Geary Schindel <
gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org> wrote:

>  Joe, Grace, Geoff, or Aimee, or anyone else
>
>
>
> I was asked a very interesting question today about the Texas Cavers
> poster.  What cave is representative by the cave map at the top of the
> poster.
>
>
>
> It has a Crownover Entrance listed on the map but no name.  Is this
> Crownover Saltpeter Cave in Alabama LOL.
>
>
>
> Geary
>

[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Poster

[Geary Schindel]

Joe, Grace, Geoff, or Aimee, or anyone else

I was asked a very interesting question today about the Texas Cavers poster.  
What cave is representative by the cave map at the top of the poster.

It has a Crownover Entrance listed on the map but no name.  Is this Crownover 
Saltpeter Cave in Alabama LOL.

Geary

[Texascavers] Kickapoo Cavern State Park Now Open :

[JerryAtkin]

 
Kickapoo Cavern State Park Now Open 
 
June 14, 2:20 PM_Houston Hunting  Examiner_ 
(http://www.examiner.com/x-15261-Houston-Hunting-Examiner) Daniel  Smith


 
 (http://www.texasstateparks.org/) 
 
After years of limited access, visitors from as far away as Houston, Austin 
 and San Antonio came out to enjoy the day's free activities at the grand 
opening  of Kickapoo Cavern State Park on Saturday, marking the first day the 
park is  open for full public access for recreation and overnight camping, 
after more  than 20 years of limited public visitation.

Highlighting the day's  activities was the dedication of the Seargeant 
Memorial Trail, a hike and bike  trail named in honor of the late Tommy 
Seargeant, former Kinney County Judge and  rancher. The Seargeant family owned 
the 
property before selling it to Texas  Parks and Wildlife Department, with the 
expressed intent that the public be able  to access and enjoy the land. 
Today, the 6,300-acre park preserves three  distinct eco-regions: the Texas 
Hill 
Country, Trans-Pecos and South Texas Brush  Country.

"I think this is an extraordinary realization of Judge  Seargeant's vision 
to see this property transformed to a state park,  particularly for the 
folks of Kinney County," said TPWD Executive Director  Carter Smith. "He had a 
lot of pride in this part of Texas, and he wanted to  protect it so that the 
people here could always enjoy it. Tommy Seargeant was a  friend of my 
family for some 15 years, and my only regret is that he was not  here to see 
it. 
But I have no doubt that he was looking down on us  today."

Visitors who ventured out to the grand opening at Kickapoo  Cavern, located 
some 22 miles outside the town of Brackettville, enjoyed hiking  tours, 
birding tours, plant and nature walks, archaeology exhibits, mountain  biking 
and wild cave tours of Kickapoo Cavern.

The day closed with a bat  flight viewing at Stuart Bat Cave, one of some 
20 caves located inside the park,  where hundreds of thousands of Mexican 
free-tailed bats emerge at dusk for their  nightly hunting trip for insects 
during warm weather months.

For more  information, contact Kickapoo Cavern State Park at (830) 
563-2342, or visit the  park's Web site  _www.texasstateparks.org_ 
(http://www.texasstateparks.org)  
_http://www.examiner.com/x-15261-Houston-Hunting-Examiner~y2010m6d14-Kickapo
o-Cavern-State-Park-Now-Open_ 
(http://www.examiner.com/x-15261-Houston-Hunting-Examiner~y2010m6d14-Kickapoo-Cavern-State-Park-Now-Open)