from:"RD Milhollin"

[Texascavers] Texas Architect Magazine: Bracken Bat Cave Visitor's Center

2008-09-05 Thread RD Milhollin

Sorry if this has been posted before, I just saw this article in the
magazine. Kudos to BCI, beautiful design.

 

http://www.texasarchitect.org/ta200809-batcave.php?sess_id=ba35ad5beefd90245
845acbdc3087751

[Texascavers] attn: Houston Cavers; others please disregard

2008-09-21 Thread RD Milhollin

Greetings Houston Cavers,

 

My work partner and I will be staying in the HOU area for several months
working insurance claims in the area, and are interested in finding a place
to live for that time. Room to set up a computer and a couple of cots,
access to AC (it is Houston, right?) and showers is the bare minimum we are
going to need. If you have rental property or know of suitable
accommodations I would rather rent money goes to cavers than to the
corporate hotel complex. Ideas, situations, suggestions, advice, referrals,
offers, etc. cheerfully accepted. 

 

If you can't respond by e-mail my number is in the NSS Members Manual, or
ask Locklear.

 

Thanks, and hope to see some of you at a future GHG meeting.

 

RD Milhollin

Fort Worth

RE: [ot_caving] Hurricane Ike - part 2

2008-09-18 Thread RD Milhollin

Charles, are you aware of the "indecent" offers that have been sneaking into
the e-mail in-box of the Cowtown Secretary account? I don't know if other
grotto accounts are experiencing this, but thought you should know.

RD

-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:45 PM
To: David
Cc: j...@oztotl.com; bec_kar...@juno.com; o...@texascavers.com;
speleoste...@tx.rr.com; cfro...@mac.com
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] Hurricane Ike - part 2

The link didn't work, but copy and paste the whole line and it will be
ok... the link missed the two minuses at the end :)

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:06 PM, David  wrote:
>
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080917/capt.0003e16f6c134227b285c8a62ff
3f86a.aptopix_ike_texas_txtg124.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=UMr5PDQntMYt9Ed0lN9
vvg--
>
>
> Above is a picture of a really good restaurant on Bolivar Peninisula.
>
> I ate there several times about a month ago.Very delicious food, and
> good service.They had something
> that tasted better than anywhere else I have eaten.I can't remember
what
> it was but something like beer battered
> green beans or something like that.
>
> My brother had $ 600 worth of food coupons there that he won on a slot
> machine in
> the back of the the restaurant. I was hoping to go down there with him
> and pig out.
>
> The area was booming and there were lots of new restaurants and fancy
homes
> that
> seemed very well built. It was a well kept secret, because they didn't
> want the rif-raft
> and thugs that had sometimes frequented Galveston beaches to take the
ferry
> and
> come over there.
>
> The beach was clean and friendly, but the water was sometimes dirty with
> floating
> sea-weed.
>
> The folks there should have built some kind of seawall before investing
> there, or they
> should have designed their houses better. Note that the water tower of
> that
> area seems to have little damage, for example.
>
> There were a lot of older crappy homes there that were sort of an eyesore.
>
> We met a Honduran family there that made a living collecting oysters by
> hand along the jetties.It was very interesting to watch them.
>
> I gotta go.
>
> David

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RE: [ot_caving] Hurricane Ike - part 2

2008-09-21 Thread RD Milhollin

Well, I haven't gotten one in a couple of days but I will forward it to you
when the next one comes in.

RD

-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] 
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 9:54 PM
To: rdmilhol...@charter.net
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] Hurricane Ike - part 2

forward me one please

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 9:53 AM, RD Milhollin 
wrote:
> Charles, are you aware of the "indecent" offers that have been sneaking
into
> the e-mail in-box of the Cowtown Secretary account? I don't know if other
> grotto accounts are experiencing this, but thought you should know.
>
> RD
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:45 PM
> To: David
> Cc: j...@oztotl.com; bec_kar...@juno.com; o...@texascavers.com;
> speleoste...@tx.rr.com; cfro...@mac.com
> Subject: Re: [ot_caving] Hurricane Ike - part 2
>
> The link didn't work, but copy and paste the whole line and it will be
> ok... the link missed the two minuses at the end :)
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:06 PM, David  wrote:
>>
>
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080917/capt.0003e16f6c134227b285c8a62ff
>
3f86a.aptopix_ike_texas_txtg124.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=UMr5PDQntMYt9Ed0lN9
> vvg--
>>
>>
>> Above is a picture of a really good restaurant on Bolivar Peninisula.
>>
>> I ate there several times about a month ago.Very delicious food, and
>> good service.They had something
>> that tasted better than anywhere else I have eaten.I can't remember
> what
>> it was but something like beer battered
>> green beans or something like that.
>>
>> My brother had $ 600 worth of food coupons there that he won on a slot
>> machine in
>> the back of the the restaurant. I was hoping to go down there with
him
>> and pig out.
>>
>> The area was booming and there were lots of new restaurants and fancy
> homes
>> that
>> seemed very well built. It was a well kept secret, because they
didn't
>> want the rif-raft
>> and thugs that had sometimes frequented Galveston beaches to take the
> ferry
>> and
>> come over there.
>>
>> The beach was clean and friendly, but the water was sometimes dirty with
>> floating
>> sea-weed.
>>
>> The folks there should have built some kind of seawall before investing
>> there, or they
>> should have designed their houses better. Note that the water tower
of
>> that
>> area seems to have little damage, for example.
>>
>> There were a lot of older crappy homes there that were sort of an
eyesore.
>>
>> We met a Honduran family there that made a living collecting oysters by
>> hand along the jetties.It was very interesting to watch them.
>>
>> I gotta go.
>>
>> David
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
>
>

[Texascavers] Texas Cave Vandal Law Signed

2007-06-20 Thread RD Milhollin






Lawmakers stiffen penalties for cave vandals

By David Saleh Rauf
The Herald-Zeitung

Published June 20, 2007

Deep beneath the surface: Thatï¿½s where some of Texasï¿½ most revered natural
resources ï¿½ caves, caverns and rare rock formations ï¿½ can be found.

Each year, the largest of Texasï¿½ seven show caves, Natural Bridge Caverns
located between New Braunfels and San Antonio, attracts about 250,000
visitors. The figure represents not only the intrinsic economic,
environmental and scientific value of the cave formation ï¿½ but the level of
awe generated by an ancient, naturally occurring phenomenon common in the
Central Texas region.

For many, however, the nearly 4,000 caves native to the state of Texas are
not being protected by laws with enough muscle to deter potential vandals
from destroying priceless rock formations.

Case in point: Just 200 miles west of New Braunfels, in Sonora, one of the
rarest ï¿½ and most popular ï¿½ cave formations in the world was vandalized in
2006.

On Friday, Gov. Rick Perry signed two identical bills ï¿½ House Bill 3502 and
Senate Bill 1524 ï¿½ that will increase the penalty for anyone convicted of
vandalizing or defacing a cave in Texas. The measures will amend the Cavern
Protection Act established by the state Legislature in 1979, which set
penalties for first time offenders caught defacing or vandalizing caves at
the misdemeanor level.

The bills ï¿½ authored respectively by Rep. Harvey Hilderbran, R-Kerrville,
and Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio ï¿½ were motivated by the case in
Sonora, where during a tour of the caverns, the trademark ï¿½butterfly
formation,ï¿½ was irreparably damaged when someone in a tour group snapped off
the upper right wing of the butterfly.

Almost one year later and the missing piece still has not been returned and
no one has been charged in the case, cave co-owner Stanley Mayfield said.

The reason: Despite being a priceless and irreplaceable piece of history,
the vandalism at Sonora Caverns only registered as a misdemeanor. As a
result, the case was given low priority on the Sutton County Sheriffï¿½s
Departmentï¿½s to-do list, Mayfield said.

ï¿½Among the cave community and those specialists who study rock formations it
ï¿½s world famous,ï¿½ Mayfield said. ï¿½But to the guys who handle law 
enforcement
in this part of the country it meant nothing.ï¿½

The lack of response from local law enforcement in the situation with the
ï¿½Butterfly Formationï¿½ prompted concern among cave enthusiasts ï¿½ including
former Comal County District Attorney Dib Waldrip ï¿½ who in turn called for
stiffer laws, with harsher penalties, to deter potential cave vandals and
prompt more police action in such cases.

State-lawmakers from the Central Texas area ï¿½ including Wentworth and Rep.
Nathan Macias, R-Bulverde ï¿½ heard the calls from cave enthusiasts and
championed measures during the 80th Legislature to protect and preserve
caves in Texas.

ï¿½I thinks its imperative that we ensure that we protect those natural
resources,ï¿½said Macias, who co-authored the House measure signed by Perry.
ï¿½I hope it goes a long way toward the protection of these natural resources
that I think are vital to the community, both in recreation as well
education.ï¿½

The bills effectively up the ante for anyone defacing a cave in the state,
giving prosecutors the ability to seek state jail felony convictions in
cases involving cave vandalism. A person found excavating, removing or
defacing a cave without a permit issued through the General Land Office
currently commits a class B misdemeanor, punishable by up to 180 days in
jail and a maximum fine up to $2,000. Under both measures, the offense would
now be a class A misdemeanor, which could carry up to one year of jail time
and a maximum fine of $4,000.

The bill also increases penalties for vandalizing any part of a cave,
regardless of whether it is owned by the state or by a private entity. Under
the measures, the current class A misdemeanor charge for first time
convicted cave vandals will now become a state-jail felony that could carry
with it the potential for 180 days to two years in state jail and an
optional fine of up to $10,000.

Furthermore, the bill also increases punishment for selling rock formations,
from a class B misdemeanor to a class A misdemeanor. The measure will take
effect Sept. 1.

ï¿½Anytime youï¿½re looking at punishment for any sort of activity, I think
deterrence is always an element in the decision making,ï¿½ Macias said

Brad Wuest, president of the National Caves Association and CEO of Natural
Bridge Caverns, said although knowing acts of cave vandalism donï¿½t occur
frequently, stiffer penalties need to be in place because ï¿½you could have a
formation that has been growing for 300,000 years that someone reaches out
and breaks.ï¿½

Wuest said the National Caves Association has followed the progress of the
bills in the Texas Legislature. As a result of the success that the cave
protecti

RE: [Texascavers] RE: [How to cook bats]

2007-06-22 Thread RD Milhollin

The stewed rat I had in SLP reminded me of dove. It was cooked in a tomato
base with chiles and some vegetables, sort of like a rich soup. The rat was
a little "gamey", all dark meat, but very tender. Our hostess bought the
meat in a local market, and we were assured that they were trapped by
farmers who saw them as competition for grain. Thus these were "field rats"
not city rats, probably a big difference as regards potential disease
vectors and all. We were told that rats were once prized cuisine in parts of
Mexico, but that they are becoming less popular due to increased
urbanization and Western media influences (think McDonalds commercials).
  -Original Message-
  From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu]
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:56 AM
  To: Texas Cavers
  Subject: [Texascavers] RE: [How to cook bats]


Don Cooper said:

  >You'd think RATS, instead would yield a whole lot more meat...

I suspect the bats they're eating are the large fruit bats and
flying foxes, not the little guys we're used to.  And people do eat rats.  I
don't know about in Asia, although I suspect they do, but definitely in
southern Mexico.  In Chiapas cavers have seen rat on a stick, cooked and
ready to go like a kabob, in the markets.  Mmm!

  Mark Minton

RE: [Texascavers] Old caving gear?

2007-07-04 Thread RD Milhollin

Whatever is still usable by someone (cheap, broke, student) might well be
donated to the TCMA auctions. This would be akin to recycling caving gear
into caves.
  -Original Message-
  From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 2:46 PM
  To: gi...@att.net
  Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Old caving gear?


  WELL
  I think you might want to narrow that down a little.  Some plastics emit
biotoxins when burned.
  But I'd agree wholeheartedly that all your old wooden caving equipment
would do well to fuel the fire.

  -WaV


  On 7/4/07, gi...@att.net  wrote:

-- Original message --
From: "John P. Brooks" 
> ..and I was wondering
> what you do with your old gear?

Save wood. Take it to TCR and put in on the bonfire. A fitting
tribute

--Ediger

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Re: [Texascavers] admin email and list bounces

2007-03-27 Thread RD Milhollin


Charles 'wokka' Goldsmith wrote:
For those of you who post to the list, you have probably been seeing 
some weird admin or bounce messages.  These are safe to ignore and 
delete.  Please do so with my apologies.  The problem is hopefully 
resolved and no one will get anymore of these.  If you do after a day 
or so, please forward one to me and let me know about it.


Again, my apologies for it, but hopefully I'll get my act together and 
won't let it happen again.


Charles
Cavetex email list maintainer and server hobbyist :)

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Thanks for keeping this working.

RD

[Mav-list] [Fwd: [Texascavers] Guano Gathering reminder and update]

2007-03-27 Thread RD Milhollin

Again, If you are interested in joining in for reasonably comfortable 
caving Saturday contact be ASAP and I will let you know what we have 
planned.


Attachment is Jim Kennedy's last minute reminder from Texascavers list.
--- Begin Message ---
Guanophiles,

Don't forget that the annual Guano Gathering is this Sunday.  We'll be
meeting at Bracken Bat Cave at 10:30 am in order to give out out-of-town
Gatherers a chance to drive in.  There are 2 locked gates on the way in.
I've been talking to Fran and he says that we will unlock the locks and
just have a carabiner to close the chain on the gates.  Please close the
gates behind you as you come in and make sure the chains are fastened
again with the carabiner.  We'll be setting up the bucket brigade and
hauling guano as soon as everybody gets there.  Afterwards we will have
a brief cedar (juniper) cutting session.  Bring loppers or a chain saw
if you have them.  There will also be an opportunity for people to load
and haul cedar (juniper) mulch.  I'll have a multi-tined pitchfork and
flat shovel, but you might want to bring your own mulch-scooping
implement if you prefer.  Don't forget some kind of light lunch and
drinks, and a complete change of clothes, including shoes (and a trash
bag in which to put your stinky, guano-laden clothes).  You'll also
probably want some kind of a headlight and helmet if you plan to go into
the cave with us after the guano-hauling stops, but you'll not need any
other caving gear in this easy 400-foot long cave.  When everything
finally settles down, say about 3 or 4-ish, those of us interested will
troop over to Caparelli's for the traditional Italian post-guano group
meal.  Bring friends that are interested, even if they are not cavers,
but bring children only if they can take their place in the line and
pass buckets of guano up the hill.  Don't bring dogs at all, as they are
not permitted on the Bracken Bat Cave Preserve.

If you need more details let me know and I will forward the email I sent
out about a week or so ago.  Let's hope the weather holds and that 60 or
70 people show up on Sunday.  And remember, bring sturdy containers with
lids for the guano (trash bags usually don't work), and 5-gallon buckets
ONLY for the Bucket Brigade.

-- Crash
--- End Message ---
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RE: [Texascavers] attachments

2007-03-26 Thread RD Milhollin

Was she referring to the cartoon of "David Locklear" whistling to himself
with the tail-wagging dog grining from the front seat of the Hybrid car
while the owner of huge SUV shouts "Shut Up" while both are fueling at the
petrol station?

-Original Message-
From: Charles 'wokka' Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:47 PM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] attachments


I can't find one in the mail server and sent Nancy an email asking for
details on it so we can look into it.

Charles

Stefan Creaser wrote:
> I haven't seen one either?
>
> Was it virus or spam that has been filtered for some people? Don't open
> the
> picture if you got it
>
> Stefan.
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Butch Fralia [mailto:cave...@charter.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:58 PM
>> To: 'Nancy Weaver'; Texascavers@texascavers.com
>> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] attachments
>>
>> I'm confused, I haven't gotten any attachements with any
>> e-mail for several
>> days.  Are you sure it came from TexasCavers.COM or am I having e-mail
>> problems.
>>
>>
>> Butch Fralia
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@io.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:20 AM
>> To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
>> Subject: [Texascavers] attachments
>>
>>
>> I was under the impression that attachments were disallowed on this
>> list.  If that is not true, please unsubscribe me.
>>
>> If that IS true, please unsubscribe the person who chose to clog my
>> mailbox this morning with a photo which could have been sent directly
>> to the person involved, instead of at least one person, who really
>> did not want it.
>>
>> thanks
>> Nancy

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Re: [Texascavers] Glasses vs. Contact Lenses

2007-03-26 Thread RD Milhollin

McNett Outdoors makes a product called OpDrops that works well on glasses.
This is a liquid, but they used to make a product called "Sea Ice" that
worked great, but was in gel form. I couldn't find sea ice on their website,
but here is the link to OpDrops.

http://mcnett.baron-co.com/images/editor/OpDrops-main.jpg
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CaveTex: Fort Worth "Batman" in the News

2007-03-26 Thread RD Milhollin

Cowtown Grotto caver Wayne Peplinski spoke to the Fort Worth City Council
this morning, and was interviewed by the media afterwards. The topic listed
on the council agenda was "Downtown bat population benefits and current
status", and Wayne explained to the council how bat habitat has been
recently threatened by construction at the historic Kress Building downtown,
and that a significant number of the benefical flying mammals had been
killed. Wayne presented the city a small bat house before he began speaking.
Mayor Mike Moncrief asked several questions about bats and their habitats
that Wayne answered, and while assuring everyone that "We will continue to
build and revitalize in downtown Fort Worth, that is a given", the mayor
added "Let us take a look at it, we share your concerns..." Wayne favors
city support in requiring the designers of bridges to be constructed as part
of the Corps of Engineer's Trinity River Vision Project to incorporate
bat-friendly spaces under the decks. Interviews with Wayne should be
broadcast this afternoon on ABC Affiliate WFAA channel 8 and Fox channel 4
KDFI (if precedent holds the Fox report may be a little more graphic and
"gripping", but perhaps not quite as accurate, let's hope they got it right)

Earlier in the week the Kress bat story was featured in a front page news
article in the "Fort Worth Star Telegram" newspaper. here is the link to
that article:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/classifieds/real_estate/12186297.htm

and a letter to the editor supported the idea of bat habitats being designed
into the planned bridges:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/opinion/local2/12206247.htm

The story was covered earlier (although somewhat sensationally and with an
unsurprising bat's-eye viewpoint) in an article featured in the "Bat World
News" (vol. 11 Summer)

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CaveTex: LA Daily News Article About Fort Worth Bats

2007-03-26 Thread RD Milhollin

Looks like the word about the bats in Fort Worth (the murcialagos, not those
at LaGrave Field) is getting around.

http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~2978544,00.html

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RE: [Texascavers] gas mileage

2008-07-21 Thread RD Milhollin

Could do worse, if this rumor is based on Nico's suggestion to move the
gas/mileage discussion to the OT list.

  _  

From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 7:15 PM
To: Nico Escamilla
Cc: Sam Young; texas cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] gas mileage

Rumor has it that Nico Escamilla has become the Texas Caver remailer
moderator?
-WaV

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Nico Escamilla 
wrote:

may I suggest that we take this discussion to the OT list?
Nico

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Sam Young  wrote:

(Not that there's any such thing as a car that gets 40 in real life.)
--Mixon

OK, this is not cave related but if someone thinks that me and my Honda do
not live in real life, I must object.  I just put a new timing belt in my
1992 Honda Civic VX at 150K miles because I plan to drive it for a long
time.  I only check the mileage every year or so but the last time I did it
was about 46 mpg on one tank and about 54mpg on the next.  When the car was
brand new I drove it at 55 mph all day and got 63 mpg.

No, it is not for sale.   Sam

RE: [Texascavers] cave food - part 4 "The Next Level"

2008-06-18 Thread RD Milhollin

Don,

That column in BOGUS! I will consider trying the bacon doggie snacks since
this dork thoroughly panned one of my favorite Mexican food delicacies...
Huitlacoche. The potted meat food is still out of the question though.

-Original Message-
From: Don Arburn [mailto:donarb...@mac.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:20 PM
To: TSA Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] cave food - part 4 "The Next Level"

Food for Cave Men (there, I'm on topic)

These are for you Joe

http://www.thesneeze.com/mt-archives/cat_steve_dont_eat_it.php

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[Texascavers] Gia

2008-06-22 Thread RD Milhollin

Looking for Gia from Houston, who attended the recent Deep/Punkin work trip.
Please contact me offline.

 

RD Milhollin

[Texascavers] Bats in Arlen Texas

2008-06-22 Thread RD Milhollin

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v10807610GWP32F72

 

In an episode of "King of the Hill", Hank overcomes his fear of bats while
floating in a sinking boat down a river and under a bridge with 20,000 bats,
at dusk!

RE: [ot_caving] spelunker spoon?

2008-06-25 Thread RD Milhollin

A SPORK comes to mind first...

-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:02 AM
To: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: [ot_caving] spelunker spoon?

What is a spelunker's spoon?

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/jun/24/theater-fires-imatter-and-lighti
-available-shows-j/

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RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

2008-06-23 Thread RD Milhollin

  _  

From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:05 AM
To: Don Cooper
Cc: qui...@clearwire.net; Fritz Holt; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

"Heard a couple of interesting stories on the news this weekend and this
morning. One was on the wind farms in West Texas. Apparently a lot of
ranchers are leasing their land to the government for wind farms to
supplement the $$ lost in the foundering cattle business. They also
interviewed one rancher who was opposed to installing the wind machines
saying that the ranchers who took advantage of the opportunity were not
being considerate to their neighbors when they allowed the government to
erect hundreds and hundreds of wind machines as far as they eye could see." 

Did the news REALLY say that the ranchers are leasing their land to the
GOVERNMENT for use as wind farms? Itwould be news to me that the government
is in the wind farm business.

RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

2008-06-23 Thread RD Milhollin

I am dumbfounded by the reaction in and around Erath County to the prospect
of a potential wind farm development between Lingleville and Gorman. My
family's ranch is out there and I spent a lot of time there growing up. I
can tell you that ranching is a very iffy prospect, a dry year can spell
financial woes, three. ruin. Back in high school I remember that the land
was leased for gas exploration, the checks were cashed but no well was ever
drilled. Oil and gas has been in production for 40 years to the north, but
just them cows munching grass in the back pasture at the old home place.

 

There is a local website out there (Erath County) blasting the idea of wind
turbines, but no mention of gas wells. I would love to get into one of the
meetings this group holds and raise the issues of explosions, fires,
chemical spills, pipeline ROW wars, the smell, the noise, I could go on. In
that particular neck of the woods I personally feel that wind turbines could
ADD to the aesthetic appeal of the landscape. Don't get me wrong. I love the
land, but the economic reality is that it is hard to make the land produce,
and the beauty there is at a micro level as compared to macro (i.e.
wildflowers, individual woods as compared to canyons or mountains). I saw an
unscientific survey recently of residents in and around Granbury/Glen Rose
saying they would welcome expansion of the nuclear facility there to maybe
three or four units. 

 

Given all the noise about energy today, I think wind turbines are not a bad
option to have for a neighbor. Cows, or grapes for that matter, can live
under and between the units, the actual footprint is considerably smaller
that a coal or nuclear plant, and hydroelectric is out of the question since
there is no water. I first saw a wind turbine farm on Lanzarote several
years ago, and thought it was beautiful. Perhaps I didn't realize then that
some of the beauty may have been in that I could SEE the turbines from a
considerable distance since there was no smoke produced along with the
electrical power. 

 

Hmmm. Rambling

 

RD

 

  _  

From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 4:02 PM
To: rdmilhol...@charter.net; 'Don Cooper'
Cc: qui...@clearwire.net; 'Fritz Holt'; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

 

I'm sorry, I mis-spoke. It is the power companies funding these. Here's the
info. It was on CBS Sunday Morning:
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/02/sunday/main3563344.shtml
 
Sorry for the confusion.

Louise

  _  

From: rdmilhol...@charter.net
To: power_lou...@hotmail.com; wavyca...@gmail.com
CC: qui...@clearwire.net; fh...@townandcountryins.com; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:38:46 -0500

 

 

  _  

From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:05 AM
To: Don Cooper
Cc: qui...@clearwire.net; Fritz Holt; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] an option to drilling

 
"Heard a couple of interesting stories on the news this weekend and this
morning. One was on the wind farms in West Texas. Apparently a lot of
ranchers are leasing their land to the government for wind farms to
supplement the $$ lost in the foundering cattle business. They also
interviewed one rancher who was opposed to installing the wind machines
saying that the ranchers who took advantage of the opportunity were not
being considerate to their neighbors when they allowed the government to
erect hundreds and hundreds of wind machines as far as they eye could see." 

 

Did the news REALLY say that the ranchers are leasing their land to the
GOVERNMENT for use as wind farms? Itwould be news to me that the government
is in the wind farm business.

RE: [ot_caving] Texas solar power

2008-06-26 Thread RD Milhollin

I bet a nuclear accident could REALLY put a dent in them solar panels!

  _  

From: qui...@clearwire.net [mailto:qui...@clearwire.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:23 AM
To: Don Cooper; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] Texas solar power

Devil's advocate here - ;-)
I bet a tornado could damage solar panels and wind turbines a lot more than
it could a nuclear reactor!
-DC

Yep, I play devils advocate a lot some days. How many times does one 30 sq
mile area get a tornado? 

Wichita Falls has had two big ones in my life time 63 yrs. But most of the
town and suronding county has had none. The reactor could be a 3 Mile Island
also. And yes we have only had one - then the Russian one.

Q

RE: [ot_caving] Texas solar power

2008-06-26 Thread RD Milhollin

This all smell like a plan of, by, and for the big corporate energy
providers. What about using all the empty roof-top space INSIDE the cities,
such as the roofs of malls, Walmarts, grocery stores, car lots, parking
lots, strip-centers, individual homes, apartment buildings etc. I can see
this as a job opportunity for the Barnett Shale "landmen" once all the
drillable real-estate is leased up. They could go from roof-owner to
roof-owner negotiating for "roof-rights" to set up solar panels for set
amounts of time. Shrewd building owners could bargain for a certain amount
of "free" electricity, since the juice coming off the roof is much more
consumer-friendly than crude oil or natural gas brought up by wells on
people's property. 

 

 

  _  

From: qui...@clearwire.net [mailto:qui...@clearwire.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:41 AM
To: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: [ot_caving] Texas solar power

 

Well this is some info I found today pasted below.

It comes from
http://environmenttexas.org/action/clean-energy/transmission?id4=ES

 

I was interested in the numbers they say would power all of Texas. Just FYI.

Quinta

 

Texas is the national leader in wind power and we have the potential to meet
the rest of our energy needs with solar power. In fact, if we put solar
panels on an area thirty miles by thirty miles in west Texas, we could
generate enough electricity to power the entire state at prices competitive
with new nuclear plants!

 

But to bring all that clean wind and solar power from west Texas, we need to
invest in our transmission grid. Right now, the Public Utilities Commission
is deciding how much renewable energy transmission to build.

 

The most ambitious plan they're looking at would create transmission
capacity for almost an additional 18,000 megawatts of wind and solar power,
which would reduce smog pollution from power plants by 13% and global
warming pollution by 16%.

RE: [Texascavers] Florida cave diving incident, Austin, TX victim

2008-07-02 Thread RD Milhollin

Try this link. Very talented young lady from all accounts, hope she
recovers.

 

www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/06/28/0628roundup.html

 

-Original Message-
From: Johnson, Russ (ATX) [mailto:russ.k.john...@westonsolutions.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:55 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Florida cave diving incident, Austin, TX victim

 

There is a front page article in today's Austin American Statesman about

an Austinite in a coma after a Florida cave diving incident; few

caving/diving details.

 

http://www.statesman.com/search/content/news/stories/local/06/28/0628rou

ndup.html

 

Russ

 

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RE: [Texascavers] Florida cave diving incident, Austin, TX victim

2008-07-03 Thread RD Milhollin

www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/06/28/0628roundup.html

 

CENTRAL TEXAS DIGEST

Austin Poetry Slam regular in coma in Florida

COMPILED FROM STAFF REPORTS
Saturday, June 28, 2008 

AUSTIN 

Poet hurt in scuba accident 

Shannon Leigh, a fixture for years on the local spoken-word poetry scene,
was in critical condition at a Florida hospital Friday after a scuba diving
accident earlier this month, Texas Youth Word Collective co-director Ron
Horne said. 

Horne said Leigh, 20, was scuba diving near Gainesville on June 14 when the
incident occurred. 

According to a story in The Gainesville Sun, Leigh was swimming with two
other divers but returned alone to the entrance of a cave to try to resolve
a problem with her equilibrium. A diving instructor not in her group found
her unconscious moments later and brought her to the surface with the help
of another diver, the newspaper said. 

Horne said Leigh started in spoken-word poetry in Austin when she was about
13. 

Since then she has been featured in HBO's Def Poetry Slam, and she placed
third last year in the National Poetry Slam, Horne said. She moved to
Atlanta in 2006 to attend Georgia State University, Horne said. 

Horne said Leigh was showing signs of recovery but was still in a coma at
the hospital. 

Anyone who wants to send get-well wishes can visit www.getwellshannon.com. 

 

 

  _  

From: mark gee [mailto:markageetxca...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:00 PM
To: rdmilhol...@charter.net
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Florida cave diving incident, Austin, TX victim

 

I can not pull up the article. Who was the diver who is in a comma.

RE: [ot_caving] Senator Obama and politics

2008-07-03 Thread RD Milhollin

I have a real problem giving tax money to religious organizations. There is
a constitutional boundary that gets crossed when the government and
religious groups get tied up together. I don't even believe in giving tax
advantage to churches etc. since doing so allows a government agency (IRS)
to determine what is a legitimate religion and what isn't ("Congress shall
make no law respecting an establishment of religion...) Non-profits set up
by religious organizations is a half-step away, so I don't have as much of a
problem as long as no faith-based discrimination is involved (ie Boy Scouts
and atheist kids) and all otherwise appropriate accounting and auditing
requirements are complied with. Organizations like Catholic Charities have
an amazing track record of success, with surprisingly low admin costs: more
money goes to fix the problem. 

As far as how to determine which organization is best suited, I would
advocate for an RFP process following a stringent analysis of the problem
and acceptable solutions that could be implemented to mitigate it.
Interested organizations include their proposal as part of the grant
application.

-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:02 PM
To: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: [ot_caving] Senator Obama and politics

I would like to talk about Obama's proposal to
use religious groups to receive federal grants to
do community projects.

Let's suppose there is a neighborhood street covered
in grafitti and trash and it will cost a volunteer organization
$ 100,000 to clean it and maintain it clean for a year or
so.

Let's say 10 different organizations bid for the grant.

1.  Nation of Islam ( Farrakan )
2.  The Quantell X Club.
3.  The Mormons
4.  The Baptist
5.  The Methodist
6.  The Atheist
7.  The Catholics
8.  The Hell's Angels
9.  The Rainbow nudist hippies
10.The Boy Scouts

etc.

How much money and time is the government going to waste
to determine who is best suited for receiving the grant.What
kind of corruption will take place.  Who is going to check to make
sure everything was cleaned up and accounting was done properly.

Meanwhile the street just gets more filthy.

I don't think his idea is any good.

Can somebody out there convince me otherwise?

David

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RE: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

2008-07-12 Thread RD Milhollin

Definitely Wakemen, sans Yes. The album was recorded live, with a full
orchestra if I remember correctly. I seem to remember he set out on a tour
with the whole ensemble, but the costs were too great and it ended before
schedule. 

 

Unrelated, I seem to have a foggy memory about a former sideman of Zappa,
from the Bongo Fury (recorded in Austin, center of .) days who after going
solo concentrated on mood music and established Cave Records somewhere in
NC. This is a stretch, but I think his studio was in a real cave. 

 

  _  

From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:42 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

 

Gill,

 

>The musical bill-of-fare was Jethro Tull's "Journey to the Center of the
Earth"

 

  I was a big Jethro Tull fan, but I've never heard of that one.
Neither has  and
.  Maybe it was someone
else?  Rick Wakeman of Yes had an album by that name.

 

Mark Minton

RE: [Texascavers] Music in Caves

2008-07-12 Thread RD Milhollin

I was along as a "safety diver" with a well-known cave scientist, actually a
respected Texas biologist, actually Texas A&M's own Tom Iliffe, several
years back on a trip to the Atlantic Island of Lanzarotte in the Canary
Islands. The cave he was sampling in is a huge lava tube that plunges from a
volcano in the middle of the island down to the coast and then under the
seabed. Before the tube encounters the coast the government established a
unique national park called the Jameos del Agua, encompassing three major
sinkholes. One was the entrance to a part of the tube used as a concert
hall, one was whitewashed and embellished by a famous local artist, and the
one closest to the sea was the entrance to a large nightclub-restaurant. The
last two were of course connected by the lava tube, and this passage was
home to a very rare shrimp. People could pass through the tunnel on a
walkway, leaving the heat and glare of the outside for the cool
semi-twilight of the cave. Signs in several languages begged tourists not to
throw coins into the water, but can guess what the result of that was. 

The first time I went in there something about the place was suddenly
strange but familiar. It took several minutes to realize that the cave had a
soundtrack, and that was the familiar part. The music itself is strange...
"Ambient One: Music For Airports" by Brian Eno. Very cool! 


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RE: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

2008-07-12 Thread RD Milhollin

Naaa, it was Patrick O'Hearn.

 

I was working off a mobile e-mail platform and didn't have access to the web
when I posted before, but O'Hearn was the bass player for the "Zoot Alures"
Zappa Band as well as for Missing Persons later. The 2008 Dallas performance
of Dweezel's "Zappa Plays Zappa" tour opened with the title track. Here is a
link to a P. O'Hearn Bio:

 

http://www.musicianguide.com/biographies/1608003520/Patrick-O-39-Hearn.html

 

Oh. The studio, it is apparently Deep Cave Studio (or records) and is in Bat
Cave, NC.

 

http://www.epinions.com/content_119979675268

 

I gather that this period in O'Hearn's career is over, but perhaps he has
some residual interest in caves,  perhaps he would be willing to perform in
a cave for some regional gathering of cavers. I don't think the music he
produces today would be likely to (literally) "bring the house down."

 

  _  

From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:36 PM
To: rdmilhol...@charter.net
Cc: Minton, Mark; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

 

Ah yes, that would have been Don Van Vliet - otherwise known as "Captain
Beefheart".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart
They recorded "Bongo Fury" in 1976 right here in Austin at the World
Armadillo Headquarters.
-WaV

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, RD Milhollin 
wrote:

Definitely Wakemen, sans Yes. The album was recorded live, with a full
orchestra if I remember correctly. I seem to remember he set out on a tour
with the whole ensemble, but the costs were too great and it ended before
schedule. 

 

Unrelated, I seem to have a foggy memory about a former sideman of Zappa,
from the Bongo Fury (recorded in Austin, center of .) days who after going
solo concentrated on mood music and established Cave Records somewhere in
NC. This is a stretch, but I think his studio was in a real cave. 

 

  _  

From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:42 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

 

Gill,

 

>The musical bill-of-fare was Jethro Tull's "Journey to the Center of the
Earth"

 

  I was a big Jethro Tull fan, but I've never heard of that one.
Neither has <http://remus.rutgers.edu/JethroTull/songs.html> and
<http://remus.rutgers.edu/JethroTull/disco.html>.  Maybe it was someone
else?  Rick Wakeman of Yes had an album by that name.

 

Mark Minton

RE: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

2008-07-12 Thread RD Milhollin

Of Course Tony Levin Rocks.

I thought that jazz flautist Paul Horn had recorded one of his "Inside"
albums in a cave, but I cannot find any evidence of that through the net. He
isn't dead yet, maybe he could be coaxed into doing so at CWAN or another
suitably acoustic cavern. The "Inside the Great Pyramid" and ..."Taj Mahal"
recordings are pretty cool, wonder how he would do in a cave? Maybe the Lake
of the Clouds Room in Carlsbad...

  

-Original Message-
From: Chris Vreeland [mailto:cvreel...@austin.rr.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:52 PM
To: List: TexasCavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

Speaking of music in caves, Tony Levin (the world's greatest bass  
player, if you ask me, or even if you didn't) recorded an album called  
 From the Caves of Iron Mountain, though after reading the scant notes  
here: http://www.tonylevin.com/store/store.html (It's about the 8th  
item down the page) you can see that it was actually recorded in a  
mine. Lots of non-caver-types fail to make the distinction between  
caves & mines, but anyway that's a digression. The album was recorded  
live, underground, in a hollowed out chamber. I haven't heard it, but  
judging by the calibre of the players (All A-list session guys who've  
worked with King Crimson, Steely Dan, Peter Gabriel, etc.) I'd imagine  
it's worth a listen.

CV

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RE: [Texascavers] Explore a cave?

2008-07-12 Thread RD Milhollin

Not quite under a river, but under a pool...

There is a small, gnarly vertically-oriented crawl underneath the terminal
pool at Harrell's Cave in San Saba Co. I am sure that when the pool fills
the water spills over into the passage and drains away, so it is probably
not always air-filled. 

-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:40 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Explore a cave?

Is this your definition of "explore a cave?"

http://www.bestsyndication.com/?q=20080611_mammoth_cave_exploration.htm


The article briefly describes 7 commercial caves - 2 of which have expensive
off-trail tours led by guides.

You have to give the author credit though.

How often do you read the phrase:

"advanced spelunking"

in the public media.

or the phrase:

 "utter darkness?"


How many of you have been in a cave that is:

"located under a river?"



Do "crystals" in caves really take a "millions years to shape and
develop"?( dogtooth spar - for example ) I guess she just means
the whole conglomerate of crystals and not an individual crystal
by itself.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spar_(mineralogy)


The article was written for its intended audience - non-cavers who
are looking for something new to do if planning a vacation.   So I will give
some kudos to the author, Shari Hearn for her effort to get a little
deeper into the topic than most travel writers do.

I just wonder how many caves she actually went in to write
the article. It sounded like she went in 2 or 3 and really liked it.

David Locklear

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RE: [ot_caving] Bay Leaves

2008-04-25 Thread RD Milhollin

No, a type of laurel, a bush (with a small case B)

 

  _  

From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:20 AM
To: OT Texas Cavers
Subject: [ot_caving] Bay Leaves

 

Dear friend and neighbor claims Bay Leaves are from the Olive Tree - 
True or Not?
-WaV

[ot_caving] Converter Boxes

2008-05-12 Thread RD Milhollin

A colleague asked this on another list... Anyone here with answers?
 
"I have gotten my two $40 TV converter box coupons from the government so
our old TVs will work when the switch is made to all digital in February
2009.  What I am wondering is if any of you have already bought one or more
boxes and, if so, could I get some feedback from you?

*   What brand(s) and model number(s) did you buy? 

*   What kind of experience have you had with them so far? 

*   Would you recommend the box(es) you bought or say "stay away from
this one"?

Any input you can provide will be greatly appreciated.  "

RE: [Texascavers] book ideas for ICS

2008-02-05 Thread RD Milhollin

Charles,

Who among the NETCavers is a member of the TCMA. I have taken the job of
organizing a TCMA Grotto Contact/Liason network to advocate for membership
and support for the TCMA Cave Acquisition efforts, and to pass along project
and work opportunities at TCMA properties.

RD

-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 9:16 PM
To: Carl Kunath
Cc: Texas Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book ideas for ICS


He obviously hasn't read it yet :)

Then again, none of those books he listed I have read, more to add to
my book pile.

Charles

On 2/5/08, Carl Kunath  wrote:
>
>
> Gee, David!
> You didn't feel that 50 Years Of Texas Caving "might" be of interest to
> those attending ICS?
>
> http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/50_Years/50_Years.html
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: David Locklear
> To: Texas Cavers
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 4:32 PM
> Subject: [Texascavers] book ideas for ICS
>
> Here are some books that might be of interest to book buyers at
> ICS.
>
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/Proto-Neolithic-Cemetery-Shanidar-University-Anthropol
ogy/dp/1585442720
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0292731418
>
> http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/pops/poptuttep.html
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0890964033/jimbuzbeeA/
>
>
>
> Have you ever heard of the "Ye Olde Bat Book Shoppe" ?
>
>  http://www.batbox.org/books.html
>
> He seems to have a good assortment of bat books.
>
> David Locklear
>
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>
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> 8:42 PM
>
>

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RE: [Texascavers] Barack Obama a caver?

2008-02-19 Thread RD Milhollin

Come on, it's poetry... how do the figs eat the apes?

-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:42 AM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Barack Obama a caver?


I am confused.

How do the apes eat figs and howl in an "underwater grotto?"

David Locklear

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[Texascavers] RE: (OT) El Paso: West Texas Character

2007-11-27 Thread RD Milhollin

I was passing through El Paso the other night as well, though I did stop.

On the way back I was trying to find a listenable radio station and stumbled
onto 93.5 FM, which was probably broadcast from Alpine or somewhere else.
The program on was pre-recorded, and was an interview with Texas
photographer Blair Pitman. This was at about 9:00 CDT Monday, November 26.
The host was a guy named John Glendennie (your spelling may vary) and he
sounded English, but Blair came through loud and long as a Texan, even
though he stated he has only been here since age 6.

The part of the interview I heard did not have any caving references. He
mentioned working for the Houston newspaper, spending years documenting the
Big Thicket before it was a Park, and that in fact the National Geographic
article that featured his photographs may have been very influential in
having the land designated by the Feds. He went on talking about his time
photographing celebrities; the story about getting drunk with Arthur Fiedler
after (after, right!?) a Houston Symphony concert, scotch of course, was
especially memorable. The guy with no shirt in the Thicket who invited him
in for coffee was cool as well. He was talking about a book he wrote called
"Tales from the Porch" and originating from Terilingua, and one of the tales
included was the oft repeated experience of Dwight Deal, "Dirt Doc" that
Blair titled "Get Your Goat" involving alcohol, a camp fire, a deep mine, a
beer can, a railroad tie, and the afore mentioned goat.

Blair came across as highly conversational, a little ornery, and very
interested in people and Nature. Does anyone know about whether this
interview is available on recorded media? A copy should be on file with the
TSS at a minimum. I am sure more of the interview was broadcast before of
later and most likely included caving tales.

-Original Message-
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@mindspring.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:44 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] El Paso


While spending last night in El Paso, I heard an interesting rumor.  Seems
that many people take the name El Paso literally and pass through El Paso on
their way to other destinations.  I was told that the  El Paso Tourism
Bureau was lobbying the city council to have the name of the town changed
from El Paso to El Stoppo to try and get more tourists visiting.

Now that's funny

Geary



- Original Message -
From: "Geary Schindel" 
To: "Gill Ediger" ; 
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] TG



Graham, Aspen, Sue and I were visiting Lee's Ferry in Arizona on
Thanksgiving Day looking at the put in point for the Grand Canyon of the
Colorado, admiring the scenery, and checking out the geology.  I always
wanted to visit this site and will some day do the canyon.  Graham is
finishing up his first semester at Northern Arizona University and
enjoying Flagstaff.

That evening, we went to Page, Arizona where the only place open on
Thanksgiving Day to eat was Denny's Restaurant.  We had a nice quite and
relatively untraditional Thanksgiving meal.  I found it interesting that
more than 300 years after the first Thanksgiving, here we sat being
served by a nice Navaho woman.

On Friday, we visited Antelope slot canyon out side of Page.  This is a
very fine but short slot canyon in the Navaho Sandstone then toured the
Glen Canyon Dam.

We left Flagstaff today with the hopes of getting to Van Horn, Texas but
decided to call it a day in El Paso where it has been snowing for a few
hours.  There is about 2 inches of snow on the ground.

Geary



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RE: [Texascavers] OT - Three-Fogelburg Island

2007-12-22 Thread RD Milhollin

I don't know if "durn hippie" is a very apt description of the man, or a
fair characterization of his music. "Environmental Conservationist" comes to
mind as a more fair description of what he was doing, in this song at least.
The lyrics posted were from "Face the Fire", off the album Phoenix, 1979.

Fogelberg was a talented man, a writer, musician, and singer. His Captured
Angel album was one of those where the artist wrote everything, sang all the
parts (mostly) and played all the instruments (well, a guest bass player and
drummer). I personally think "Nether lands" was his singular masterpiece,
but several people I know prefer the more folksey "Souvenirs".

I don't know of any cave-related lyrics from Dan though. I do recommend his
music for lounging by the fire on a cold night, or in the truck on the way
to the cave.
  -Original Message-
  From: George Nincehelser [mailto:geo...@nincehelser.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:30 PM
  To: texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - Coal Ash Is More Radioactive than Nuclear
Waste


  Just to briefly merge two off-topic discussions, here are some lyrics to a
popular Dan Fogelberg song:

   I hear the thunder three miles away
   The Island's leaking into the bay
   The poison is spreading
   The demon is free
   And people are running from what they can't even see

   [Chorus:]
   Face the fire
   You can't turn away
   The risk grows greater with each passing day
   The waiting's over
   The moment has come
   To kill the fire and turn to the sun

  It was years before I noticed the lyrics were anti-nuclear and pro-solar
and realized Dan was a durn hippie.  I still like the tune, though, and I
admire the way he was able to slip his position in without using any
hot-button words.

  George

RE: [Texascavers] Big cave chamber picture taking logistics.

2007-12-23 Thread RD Milhollin

Lyndon,

Best results are obtained by placing the light source away from the camera.
Backscatter is a big problem underwater of course, but even in humid/moist
cave environments this is going to be a problem, a bigger problem the
further the object is from the camera. So the rig you are thinking of would
be good in a small cave, but not very effective in a larger one. That camera
would be great for open pit rappelling in daylight...AH

-Original Message-
From: Lyndon Tiu [mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca]
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 1:47 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Big cave chamber picture taking logistics.



http://www.darklightimagery.net/camps/camps3B.html
http://www.darklightimagery.net/camps/camps3C.html
http://www.darklightimagery.net/camp.../chamber3.html


"This image gives one an idea of the immensity of the chambers in Camps
Gulf.  The beautiful circular rotunda shaped ceiling can easily be seen.
  Here, the third chamber is illuminated primarily by one Meggaflash
PF330 flashbulb.  These extraordinary bulbs burn for nearly 2 seconds,
producing a brilliant light. The only way the grandeur of this room can
be fully appreciated is when these bulbs are fired. Applause broke out
after this shot was completed! Communication between flash runners
and the camera operator is practically impossible--echo muddles all
conversation.  So, to help with this delima, we utilized Motorola
personal two-way radios to keep things going smoothly."


--
Lyndon Tiu

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[ot_caving] Attachments?

2008-01-15 Thread RD Milhollin

I wonder ... ???

Given this list is populated by only the texasCaver list members who don't
want to hear about anything other than rocks and air (and a little water) in
a particular configuration,

What is the correlation between non-ot-list cavers and cavers who don't want
attachments on their e-mails???

Who on this list would like to see attachments allowed here?

Who not?



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[ot_caving] TSA: Cost/Benefit

2008-01-16 Thread RD Milhollin

OK, you are right. I seem to remeber a grant the TSA land fund made to TCMA
when the down payment for Deep/Punkin was being put together. But the
primary purpose of the TSA is not to buy caves, ostensibly not even a
secondary one since they have never bought one. There are two organizations
in the state dedicated to doing that though, each in their own unique ways.
I would argue that if cave acquisition is your goal (and a worthy goal in my
estimation) then get involved and donate to TCMA or TCC.

I think the TSA meeting was this previous Saturday at CBSP.

My take.

TSA was traditionally a social gathering mechanism for cavers is a vast
geographic area. The Texas Caver was an invaluable source for information.
That was before the internet. I asked at a grotto meeting tonight that the
president designate a caver, preferably a TSA member, to act as TSA liaison,
to announce TSA activities to the meeting attendees. Couldn't find a TSA
member in the room. Why? Too much money; well more like not getting anything
for the dues. Several people cited the , um, infrequest publication
schedules of the past. I still feel that twenty bucks is way out of line for
what you get.

And this is not to take anything away from Mark, the editor, he does a great
job, and this from a grotto editor. But in a weird sort of way the TC editor
is in direct competition with grotto editors for material. The UT Grotto
effectively uses the Texas Caver as their grotto newsletter. Pretty slick,
getting a guy from Dallas to edit your Austin cave news. In the era of
instant communication the TSA seems like something of an achronism, an
unneeded layer in the caving cake.

My proposal.

Someone in Austin get the UT grotto newsletter going. Use the Texas Caver as
a DIGEST for the best articles, maps, trip reports, cave poetry, technical
reports, art work, photography, etc. and publish quarterly. Go online as was
previously suggested, and start back the Activities Newsletter, again
online. Lower online membership to $10 bucks. Raise the dues for hard copy
to $25 or whatever it takes to cover printing and postage costs plus a
little for the bank acount, let the folks needing paper for paper. The $10
from online subscribers is pure gravy, no costs incurred to produce it. More
people join, membership swells, everyone contributes to their grotto
newletter hoping the TC editor or editorial board chooses their work for
statewide publication; cavers all over the state camp out by their mailbox
waiting to see what wondrous stuff is happening in other parts of the state.
Uh... well maybe not.

In summary, I fully appreciate that the leaders of the TSA and members who
have stuck with it have done so for what they genuinely feel are good
reasons. I think some of the old timers have a sentimental attachment to the
"way we used to do things" and have not allowed things to move along into
the future, er... present. I have expressed these ideas to several TSA
leaders in the past and was scolded in most cases for not being onboard. A
few (who were not elected) agreed with some or all of what I expressed. I
basically posited this same scheme tonight, and several grotto members who
were once TSA members or had never joined stated they would seriously
consider joining/rejoining. That includes me. You know, joining a group of
like-minded people seems to be a natural response, unless the group makes it
to difficult to do so, or can't show a reasonable set of benefits for doing
so.

-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:19 PM
To: RD Milhollin
Cc: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

The TSA does have funds for land/cave purchase, its invested
currently.  I don't know if it was approved, but I do know a grant was
put forth towards the TSA for $1200 to help improve Honey Creek
entrance.  The next meeting for TSA will be at CBSP I think, that
alone will support that project, driving people there.

I'm not an active member of TSA, but I have been a member for a couple
of years and these are the types of things that I've seen happening
and it's why I'm a member.

To each his own.

On 1/16/08, RD Milhollin  wrote:
>
> Each grotto has (or should have) a newsletter.
> The projects are the result of individual initiative and followup, and
could
> be done without the help of any organization.
> I am not aware of the TSA purchasing land/caves. I know the TCMA and TCC
do,
> and I support both of those organizations.
> Honey Creek, CBSP: see projects above.
> TSS is a private corporation, as far as I know. Please correct me if I am
> mistaken.
> TCR is a stand-alone affair/organization/happening.
>
> The Spring Convention is a worthy endeavor, certainly worthy of support,
but
> not $20-30 per year from people who might not even be able to make it
there.
>
> I don't see that the TS

RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

2008-01-16 Thread RD Milhollin

  -Original Message-
  From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:29 PM
  To: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Charles Goldsmith
  Cc: Kara Savvas; Johnson, Russ (ATX); imoca...@comcast.net; Scott
Nicholson; o...@texascavers.com
  Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

  Mark,

  Most associations of this type rarely have the necessary funds to meet
obligations and to implement goals. I would resist the idea of any
reductions in the cost of membership and would endorse an increase. The
annual membership cost is too low for the benefits

  enjoyed by the members. This is my opinion and I hope that of others.

  Fritz

--

  From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:41 PM
  To: Fritz Holt; Charles Goldsmith
  Cc: Kara Savvas; Johnson, Russ (ATX); imoca...@comcast.net; Scott
Nicholson; o...@texascavers.com
  Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

  It would still remain in a paper format, Fritz.

  You would just have the option of receiving it electronically, instead of
in paper, at a reduced price.

  Thanks,

  Mark

  P.S. - Good idea about the membership application.

--

  From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
  Sent: Wed 1/16/2008 12:22 PM
  To: Alman, Mark @ IRP; Charles Goldsmith
  Cc: Kara Savvas; Johnson, Russ (ATX); imoca...@comcast.net; Scott
Nicholson; o...@texascavers.com
  Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

  Mark,

  As the discussion in question is relevant caving business, I will give my
opinion. I doubt whether few if any cavers are members of

  TSA solely to receive The Caver. So, going electronically should not
diminish the membership rolls. Changing the format, making it available to
all with its beautiful pictures and most interesting and informative
information, may increase membership. It should have a membership
application in each issue. I assume that when sent electronically the cost
is the same regardless of the number of recipients. This sounds like a money
saving idea for the association but I will miss the hard copy in its book
configuration.

  Fritz

RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

2008-01-16 Thread RD Milhollin

Hmm, I can't seem to get this to post righ... let me try this message for
the third time:

Fritz, for the sake of good natured argument, please enumerate said benefits
and the value you place on those.
  -Original Message-
  From: RD Milhollin [mailto:rdmilhol...@charter.net]
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:01 PM
  To: o...@texascavers.com
  Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

-Original Message-
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:29 PM
To: mark.al...@l-3com.com; Charles Goldsmith
Cc: Kara Savvas; Johnson, Russ (ATX); imoca...@comcast.net; Scott
Nicholson; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

Mark,

Most associations of this type rarely have the necessary funds to meet
obligations and to implement goals. I would resist the idea of any
reductions in the cost of membership and would endorse an increase. The
annual membership cost is too low for the benefits

enjoyed by the members. This is my opinion and I hope that of others.

Fritz

RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

2008-01-16 Thread RD Milhollin

Each grotto has (or should have) a newsletter.
The projects are the result of individual initiative and followup, and could
be done without the help of any organization.
I am not aware of the TSA purchasing land/caves. I know the TCMA and TCC do,
and I support both of those organizations.
Honey Creek, CBSP: see projects above.
TSS is a private corporation, as far as I know. Please correct me if I am
mistaken.
TCR is a stand-alone affair/organization/happening.

The Spring Convention is a worthy endeavor, certainly worthy of support, but
not $20-30 per year from people who might not even be able to make it there.

I don't see that the TSA actually "does a lot". You haven't yet convinced
me.

FWIW I am not a TSA member, I once was but chose not to renew several years
ago. I would consider rejoining and becoming involved if I could convince
myself that it served a purpose not covered either by individuals who choose
to take on tasks for the loive of it, or by other caving organizations; and
if I could feel that the dues justified the returns.

It doesn't count but my vote would be to have an electronic newsletter
available to those who don't want paper, and for a considerable break in the
dues, as was mentioned in a previous post.

-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 5:48 PM
To: RD Milhollin
Cc: o...@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

I'll chime in here, as a TSA member and what I see coming out of this
organization.  Aside from the obvious, the newsletter, the TSA also
has several projects that are on-going.  Land purchase, helping with
Honey Creek, CBSP, TSS, TCR/Spring Convention and others.

I'm sure that I didn't get nearly all of the things, but from what
I've seen, the TSA does a lot and could do more with extra funding,
saving cash on doing bulk mails.

Charles

On 1/16/08, RD Milhollin  wrote:
>
>
> Hmm, I can't seem to get this to post righ... let me try this message for
> the third time:
>
> Fritz, for the sake of good natured argument, please enumerate said
benefits
> and the value you place on those.
>

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RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

2008-01-16 Thread RD Milhollin

Charles,

Thanks for engaging in discussion. I asked for a civil discussion, and I
hope I participated thusly. I appreciate you sticking your head up and
offering a comeback to my questions, I know your feeling is genuine but I do
feel it strengthed my argument, since your examples are those most Texas
cavers would have offered up as well. I started this thread in hope of
getting discussion going that could turn up some new ideas, or even old
ideas never adopted that could turn the TSA into a viable, purposeful
organization, and show a real, tangible benefit to members, for a reasonable
price.

Nah...

JUST KIDDING!

Cheers,
RD

RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

2008-01-22 Thread RD Milhollin

Again Fritz,

I am not bashing anyone or any organization, just passing along my own views
on the question of the cost/benefits of TSA membership.

So, again, the "enjoyment of camaraderie with others at TCR" and "various
caving activities" is not tied to TSA membership. The Spring Convention is.

"TSA as well as TCMA allows me to visit beautiful sites and caving areas
that I would not otherwise know of or be able to access" : I agree that the
TCMA and also the TCC enables access to caves, but I don't see how the TSA
does, except through organizational contributions to land acquisition
activities, in which the TSA acts as a conduit only. At least there are no
administrative fees or overhead costs associated.

"officers of the organizations deem is an appropriate amount for dues" Why
would you avoid using your own judgement in estimating appropriate dues for
an organization you belong to. I suppose we all are becoming a nation of
followers, I just supposed cavers would be on the trailing edge of this
trend.

"I feel that the more income the associations generate, the more involved
they can become with education, acquisition and conservation of our caves
and their inhabitants." Agreed, but there are two ways to make the equation
of income generation work. The current scheme seems to be few members with
high dues per member. One unintended (?) result of this policy is to keep
the organization closely held, meaning old-timers tend to dominate, which
makes it a conservative group, ie preservation of status quo/slow to change.
The alternative approach is to have a large membership base with small dues
per member. This approach could generate the same revenue, and involve more
cavers, new cavers, young cavers, as icing on top.

"I justify membership costs by the degree of enjoyment derived, including
some of these dumb posts..." I have been trying to point out that there is
not a causal link between this enjoyment and TSA membership. This list, for
instance is not owned by the TSA. It is made possible entirely through the
good graces of the list owner, Charles Goldsmith.

Now, more unsubstantiated views on the subject from cavers I have talked
with recently. One, a qualified candidate for the position of newsletter
editor for the UT Grotto, replied, somewhat surprised at my suggestion that
the UTG needed a newsletter, replied "Why? We have the Texas caver".
Another, very involved Texas caver stated in confidence that "the only
benefit you get from TSA membership is the TC". I know that the TSA members
who have stated opposing viewpoints are genuinely proud of their
organization and the work they see it as accomplishing. But I see it as
necessary to discount that dedication somewhat by the "buy-in" that members
of organizations usually get by belonging to a group, meaning it is slightly
more difficuly for them to view the organization objectively as whole from
inside. I, and others before me, are suggesting change, but it is going to
be hard to accomplish due to the nature of the organization
  -Original Message-
  From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
  Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:13 PM
  To: RD Milhollin
  Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver


  RD,

  As an old timer and spelunker in years past, I can only speak for myself
as to the perceived benefits of TSA membership. I echo the thoughts of
Charles Goldsmith and Jerry Atkinson and I like your thoughts of wanting to
belong to a group of like-minded people with a common interest. Many of us
march to a different drummer which makes for some interesting commentary.
This is good. From kids to geezers, our common interests are somewhat out of
the norm but are a fun and satisfying pastime.



  For me, whatever the cost of TSA membership may be, it is worth it for the
enjoyment of camaraderie with others at TCR, the spring convention and at
various caving activities. In addition, TSA as well as TCMA allows me to
visit beautiful sites and caving areas that I would not otherwise know of or
be able to access. I certainly realize that many cavers, especially younger
ones, may be on a tight budget and therefore I will go along with what the
officers of the organizations deem is an appropriate amount for dues.



  I feel that the more income the associations generate, the more involved
they can become with education, acquisition and conservation of our caves
and their inhabitants. I justify membership costs by the degree of enjoyment
derived, including some of these dumb posts. My wife accused me of being a
Neanderthal and dumb as a post and this was before she knew that I liked
caves.

  Fritz




----
--

  From: RD Milhollin [mailto:rdmilhol...@charter.net]
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:56 PM
  To: Fritz Holt
  Subject: RE:

[Texascavers] TSA/Texas Caver Thread

2008-01-22 Thread RD Milhollin

Again Fritz,

I am not bashing anyone or any organization, just passing along my own views
on the question of the cost/benefits of TSA membership.

So, again, the "enjoyment of camaraderie with others at TCR" and "various
caving activities" is not tied to TSA membership. The Spring Convention is.

"TSA as well as TCMA allows me to visit beautiful sites and caving areas
that I would not otherwise know of or be able to access" : I agree that the
TCMA and also the TCC enables access to caves, but I don't see how the TSA
does, except through organizational contributions to land acquisition
activities, in which the TSA acts as a conduit only. At least there are no
administrative fees or overhead costs associated.

"officers of the organizations deem is an appropriate amount for dues" Why
would you avoid using your own judgement in estimating appropriate dues for
an organization you belong to. I suppose we all are becoming a nation of
followers, I just supposed cavers would be on the trailing edge of this
trend.

"I feel that the more income the associations generate, the more involved
they can become with education, acquisition and conservation of our caves
and their inhabitants." Agreed, but there are two ways to make the equation
of income generation work. The current scheme seems to be few members with
high dues per member. One unintended (?) result of this policy is to keep
the organization closely held, meaning old-timers tend to dominate, which
makes it a conservative group, ie preservation of status quo/slow to change.
The alternative approach is to have a large membership base with small dues
per member. This approach could generate the same revenue, and involve more
cavers, new cavers, young cavers, as icing on top.

"I justify membership costs by the degree of enjoyment derived, including
some of these dumb posts..." I have been trying to point out that there is
not a causal link between this enjoyment and TSA membership. This list, for
instance is not owned by the TSA. It is made possible entirely through the
good graces of the list owner, Charles Goldsmith.

Now, more unsubstantiated views on the subject from cavers I have talked
with recently. One, a qualified candidate for the position of newsletter
editor for the UT Grotto, replied, somewhat surprised at my suggestion that
the UTG needed a newsletter, replied "Why? We have the Texas caver".
Another, very involved Texas caver stated in confidence that "the only
benefit you get from TSA membership is the TC". I know that the TSA members
who have stated opposing viewpoints are genuinely proud of their
organization and the work they see it as accomplishing. But I see it as
necessary to discount that dedication somewhat by the "buy-in" that members
of organizations usually get by belonging to a group, meaning it is slightly
more difficuly for them to view the organization objectively as whole from
inside. I, and others before me, are suggesting change, but it is going to
be hard to accomplish due to the nature of the organization
-Original Message-
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:13 PM
To: RD Milhollin
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver


RD,

As an old timer and spelunker in years past, I can only speak for myself as
to the perceived benefits of TSA membership. I echo the thoughts of Charles
Goldsmith and Jerry Atkinson and I like your thoughts of wanting to belong
to a group of like-minded people with a common interest. Many of us march to
a different drummer which makes for some interesting commentary. This is
good. From kids to geezers, our common interests are somewhat out of the
norm but are a fun and satisfying pastime.



For me, whatever the cost of TSA membership may be, it is worth it for the
enjoyment of camaraderie with others at TCR, the spring convention and at
various caving activities. In addition, TSA as well as TCMA allows me to
visit beautiful sites and caving areas that I would not otherwise know of or
be able to access. I certainly realize that many cavers, especially younger
ones, may be on a tight budget and therefore I will go along with what the
officers of the organizations deem is an appropriate amount for dues.



I feel that the more income the associations generate, the more involved
they can become with education, acquisition and conservation of our caves
and their inhabitants. I justify membership costs by the degree of enjoyment
derived, including some of these dumb posts. My wife accused me of being a
Neanderthal and dumb as a post and this was before she knew that I liked
caves.

Fritz




----


From: RD Milhollin [mailto:rdmilhol...@charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:56 PM
To: Fritz Holt
Subject: RE: [ot_caving] RE: TexasCaver

RE: [Texascavers] TSA/Texas Caver Thread

2008-01-22 Thread RD Milhollin

Diane and Charles,

I don't know if you have followed the entire thread (name change and all)
but my argument has basically two components: that I and others feel that
there is not sufficient return on an individual level to justify $20
membership for the TSA; and that the situatiojn could be improved by
restructuring the format of the TEXAS CAVER into a digest of the "best of"
articles from the various Texas grotto newsletters. Go back and look at
today's posts with that in mind and see if that makes more sense. Perhaps I
didn't tie all that together sufficiently.

I don't want to run for office since I don't feel that membership is
justified. I would like to see change to make the organization available to
more people, and with a better grounded basis of benefit for the member.

Cheers.
RD

-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:17 PM
To: Don Arburn
Cc: Texas Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA/Texas Caver Thread

Actually he is, re-read his last sentence.  He does not spell out what
change, just that he and others want change.

Charles

On 1/22/08, Don Arburn  wrote:
> I don't believe he is looking to effect change. I believe he is
> looking for a reason for the TSA to exist, other than it giving us the
> Caver.
>
> On Jan 22, 2008, at 5:48 PM, Diana Tomchick wrote:
>
> > Hey RD,
> >
> > If you want to effect change in the TSA, why don't you volunteer for
> > a position in the organization and/or volunteer to run for a TSA
> > office for next year?
> >
> > Diana
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- donarb...@mac.com
>
>
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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>
>

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RE: [Texascavers] Paella

2007-10-30 Thread RD Milhollin

I have had paella several times in northern Spain, in restaurants and in the
homes of residents there. Each time it was similar, maybe a regional
Cantabrian variation of the dish, but it was best described as a rice
casserole with fish and seafood cooked in. I believe the fish and then
seafood (each time scallops and clams but sometimes shrimp) were simmered in
a rue, then rice added and the dish covered until the rice was ready. In one
home sprigs from an herb garden were cooked in, I really wasn't into herbs
then (you know, cooking herbs) but in retrospect the plants might have been
rosemary, thyme, and oregano. All this makes me hungry...

-Original Message-
From: gi...@att.net [mailto:gi...@att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:24 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Paella


-- Original message --
From: "Denise P" 
> Paella-Delicious Spanish dish courtesy of Mr. Tommy Jo of Houston, 

Paella (pi A ya) is popular dish, ostensibly Spanish. However, I have never
been able to find anybody who could tell me EXACTLY what the composition or
nature of paella is or should be--in Spain or anywhere else. Furthermore, I
have never had paella (or what was called or passed off as paella) served to
me in the same form or fashion or combination of ingredients the same way
2wice. It appears to be a hodgepodge food...


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[Texascavers] More Twain and Thanksgiving

2007-11-22 Thread RD Milhollin

"Thanksgiving Day. Let all give humble, hearty, and sincere thanks now, but
the turkeys. In the island of Fiji they do not use turkeys; they use
plumbers. It does not become you and me to sneer at Fiji."

Twain - "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"



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RE: [Texascavers] AMCS newsletters CD

2007-08-05 Thread RD Milhollin

Back issues of speleological literature on CDs is a great idea. Thanks Bill
for working this up, and thanks Ernie for posting about it.

BTW, for the fuzzy newsletters: would it be possible to scan them in and use
character-recognition software to recapture the text for republication?

-Original Message-
From: Ernest Garza [mailto:txwo...@texas.net]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 7:28 PM
To: texascavers
Subject: [Texascavers] AMCS newsletters CD

Fellow cavers,

   I have just had a chance to view the CD that Bill Mixon compiled of
the AMCS newsletters, volumes 1-5, 1965 to 1977. The first issue, a
mimeographed copy is difficult to read, although one will be rewarded by
a sense of discovery that the early cavers were making. Later issues
used good type and nicely printed photos and maps.
   It is a marvel to see how much was discovered and mapped by such a
boisterous, hard caving, young group. They would ride buses, hitchhike,
or hop on lumber trucks going up the mountains. Later, speleo-campers
mounted onto large trucks were used--one could pile numerous bodies and
lots of gear and go roaring off to Mexico.
   These trip reports are as close as one can get to being there,and for
those of us who participated in some of it, it is a chance to re-live
that most productive and exciting era.
   Mixon has sold all 30 copies he had made, but will have more
available later.

--Ernie Garza

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RE: [Texascavers] socks for 54 degree wet caves

2007-08-10 Thread RD Milhollin

David, I use some socks that are 90% nylon and 10% lycra under my neoprene
caving socks. I found this Nike product at Academy for about $10 per pair,
and originally sought them out to prevent or mitigate chafing from full-foot
fins during underwater hockey games. My neoprene socks are a little worn,
and let water freely circulate in oversize boots, and I found recently that
the Nike socks worn as a liner help that problem a lot. I tried the plastic
bag routine once and found it uncomfortable to the extent that it took away
from enjoyment of the trip, although it did help keep gravel out of the
boot.

-Original Message-
From: David Locklear [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 2:08 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] socks for 54 degree wet caves


I like to wear neoprene socks in my caving boots whenever
I know I am going to be in a cave with lots of water.

http://www.sailgb.com/pi/Typhoon/flatsocks_1.jpg

Neoprene socks are readily available at almost all sporting
goods stores, Academy, etc.  ( even Walmart )

On a recent trip into a cave with colder water, I found that
my neoprene socks were not keeping my feet as warm as I
would have liked.

I would like to discuss this subject.





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RE: [Texascavers] Message Board

2007-08-11 Thread RD Milhollin

Tone, Fort Worth caver and cave diver Rick Hornung has been hosting a Texas
caver's forum www.txcavers.com for some time now. Pretty good formatting,
just needs more participants.
  -Original Message-
  From: Tone G [mailto:tone.ga...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:04 PM
  To: texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: [Texascavers] Message Board


  There is a new message board for Texas cavers.

  http://texascaves.freeforums.org/

  A friend of mine, Lee, set it up and invites one and all to use it.  He
goes by the name PaulVierulite.

[Texascavers] Rabies feared after bats take over dorm

2007-09-19 Thread RD Milhollin

>From MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20870285/?GT1=10357


Rabies feared after bats take over dorm

TSU Students Screened For Rabies After Bats Invade Dorm
Number of Rabies Cases in Bats Up Statewide

Updated: 10:56 a.m. CT Sept 19, 2007
HOUSTON - An infestation of bats at Texas Southern University has health
officials concerned.

The bats took over a dormitory, forcing more than 200 students into hotels.
Now, there are worries the students may have been exposed to rabies.

Videos posted on the Internet show students swinging a broom and a tennis
racket as several bats fly about in a dorm hallway. One student said he
killed dozens of bats but didn't know if anyone was bitten.

Health officials asked students who had been in the dorm to meet with them
this week to determine whether any would need rabies vaccinations.

Texas Southern officials, meanwhile, say they're trying to rid the dorm of
the bats. It's not clear how many bats were in the building.


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[Texascavers] Aboveground Caves

2007-06-01 Thread RD Milhollin

There is an above ground cave three floors up in Downtown Fort Worth. It was
originally "discovered" in the process of converting two old buildings in to
the semi-legendary Caravan of Dreams, and appropriately enough it was
incorporated into the unique entertainment venue as the "Grotto Bar". I
lobbied unsuccessfully to have meetings or at least gatherings of the
Maverick Grotto to meet there as this was without the closest karst feature
to most of the members, and the bar was already set up! The Grotto Bar is
now part of the Reata Restaurant that displaced but did not replace the
Caravan. Perhaps this could be the location of an upcoming Metroplex Cavers
gathering!!??

Link:
http://www.guidelive.com/portal/page?_pageid=33,97320&_dad=portal&_schema=PO
RTAL&item_id=35266

Can't seem to find a photo of it though, that might be a reason to visit
soon.
  -Original Message-
  From: egels...@satx.rr.com [mailto:egels...@satx.rr.com]
  Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 11:11 AM
  To: Stefan Creaser
  Cc: iar...@io.com; texascavers list
  Subject: Re: RE: [Texascavers] Aboveground Caves


  That is probably because bathrooms or water closets where not invented
when most of that stuff was built over there!  They have been added in here
and there and you may not find your way out.

  My office is an above ground cave.  No windows anywhere.  When you leave
for lunch or after wook you may find out that the weather is radically
different than when you went in.

RE: FW: [Texascavers] rattlesnake hoax

2007-05-31 Thread RD Milhollin

MessageHow about "Merkel" that little town just west of Abilene with the
charming video and book store, a convenient stop on the way to Carlsbad from
Fort Worth.
  -Original Message-
  From: Butch Fralia [mailto:cave...@charter.net]
  Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 5:39 PM
  To: 'Fritz Holt'; 'Cynthia Hall'; 'Mack Pitchford';
texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: RE: FW: [Texascavers] rattlesnake hoax

  Ugh, that makes me want to burple!
-Original Message-
From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 4:58 PM
To: Cynthia Hall; Mack Pitchford; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: FW: [Texascavers] rattlesnake hoax

Purple is easy. Havenďż˝t you heard of maple syruple ?

From: Cynthia Hall [mailto:cynthia.hall.i...@statefarm.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:41 AM
To: Mack Pitchford; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: FW: [Texascavers] rattlesnake hoax

same goes for "purple" I think!

From: Mack Pitchford [mailto:caveb...@rocketmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:20 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: FW: [Texascavers] rattlesnake hoax

Another cool thing about this song is that they managed to work in a
rhyme for Orange, which is something, it's been said, can't be done.

Fritz Holt  wrote:

Dearest Daughters and friends,

Read my post at the bottom before reading this cleverly worded song sent
by Don Cooper. I had not heard it.

Fritz Holt

From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:53 PM
To: Fritz Holt
Cc: bmorgan...@aol.com; jhol...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] rattlesnake hoax

Speaking of Stupid Texas Blowhards
I enthusiastically endorse the song "Stupid Texas Song" by the Austin
Lounge Lizards.
Basically crossing the grain and song structure of "Miles and Miles of
Texas" it really rips "Asleep at the wheel" where it should and everywhere
else slaps that smug Texan smile right in the face!

Texas is a big state, North to South and East to West
Alaska doesn't really count, we're bigger than the rest
You can waltz across it, though, so grab your yellow rose
And sing another song of Texas--this is how it goes:
One more stupid song about Texas,
For miles and miles it rambles on
Biggest egos, biggest hair, biggest liars anywhere,
Let's sing another stupid Texas song
By God we're so darn proud to be from Texas--yahoo!
Even of our pride we're proud and we're proud of that pride, too
Our pride about our home state is the proudest pride indeed,
And we're proud to be Americans, until we can secede

One more stupid song about Texas,
You've heard it all before so sing along
Biggest belt buckles and boasts, love that big old Texas toast,
Let's sing another stupid Texas song
Our accents are the drawliest, our howdies are the y'alliest,
Our Lone Star flag's the waviest, our fried steak's the cream-graviest
Our rattlesnakes the coiliest, our beaches are the oiliest
Our politicians most corrupt, our stop signs most abrupt
Our guitars are the twangiest, our guns are the keblangiest.
Our cows are the Long-horniest, our yodels the forlorniest,
Our cookoffs are the chiliest, our Waylon is the Williest,
Our sausage is the smokiest, our neighbors are the Okiest
From Texarkana to El Paso, Dalhart down to Orange
Every spot in Texas has got what you're looking for
Aren'cha glad that Texas put the stars up in the sky?
If heaven isn't Texas, pardner, I don't want to die

One more stupid song about Texas, just 'cause we're braggin',
That don't mean it's wrong
Biggest heads and biggest hearts, biggest various body parts,
Let's sing another stupid Texas song
Toss your hats into the air, we're obnoxious (we don't care!)
Let's sing another stupid Texas song
One more blusterin', bumptious, bald faced, brazen, high flown,
high-tone, dander-up, panderin',
pompous, puffed-up, snotty, swaggerin', stupid Texas song!

Never miss an email again!
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Re: [Texascavers] [TCR Food]

2017-02-10 Thread RD Milhollin via Texascavers

Don

If you can find an organizer I will be happy to help with a main dish or 
coordinate and produce a side dish

I know there are several cavers who have done the same in the past, had a great 
time, and are eager to do it again

For anyone who hasn't and has some aptitude for cooking... step up and have a 
swing at it, being part of this effort is fun and is a great way to get to know 
other cavers from across the big state. Who knows, you might get yourself 
invited on a "secret caving trip"

Did I forget to mention cooks eat first

RD

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 10, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Don Arburn via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Currently TCR doesn't have a head cook, or menu. There have been complaints, 
> rumors and talk about this subject. It seems there are three options: (a) 
> fend for yourselves, (b) caterer, (c) volunteers come forward to cook.
> Each has its benefit and drawbacks. I need to get a feel for options.
> 
> Discuss:
> 
> 
> --Tex Caver
> 
> 
> 
> --Don
> ___
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[Texascavers] BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO

2017-06-11 Thread RD Milhollin via Texascavers

--- Begin Message ---
Forwarded from SWR list:

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Ray Keeler" 
> Date: June 11, 2017 at 12:58:57 PM CDT
> To: "'swr Cavers Group'" 
> Subject: [SWR CAVERS] BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO
> 
> Hello SWR,
>  
> You need to know about this.  On the Monday Morning BOG agenda they will vote 
> on the motion below.
> Please talk to your Directors and Officers before the Monday morning vote and 
> request that each BOG member votes “NO!” on Agenda Item 6.
> Please forward this to other list serves.  You can contact your Directors and 
> Officers even if you are not going to the 2017 Convention.
> Let your leaders hear from you!
> e...@caves.org+direct...@caves.org=b...@caves.org
> … and yes, there are several BOG members on the SWR list.  If you reply to 
> this list, several will see your reply.
>  
> Agenda Item 6 “Convention Beverages”  is about restricting when alcoholic 
> beverages can be served during the Conventions.  You are the representatives 
> of the membership. You are my representative.  Please vote “NO” on agenda 
> item 6.
> 
> This motion is another unnecessary burden to future Convention committees.  
> It is another unnecessary, and unwanted requirement.
> 
> The motion is below.  The “Note:” below the motion will not be included in 
> the Acts of the Board.  It is only there to sway your vote.
> 
> Minimally, I am asking you, my Directors, to amend the motion to remove the 
> sentence “No other alcoholic beverages will be provided.”
> 
> Example:  There was a Convention (I was there) where not all of the beer was 
> consumed at the previous night’s gathering.  The following day the remaining 
> beer kegs were trailered through the campground and pitchers were used to 
> fill campers’ containers.  It was a memorable and unexpected perk that was 
> very much appreciated.  If this motion passes, enjoyable, spontaneous events 
> cannot happen.
> 
>  
> 
> 6) Convention Beverages
> 
> Shrewsbury moves: The annual NSS Convention is permitted, once legal permits 
> and permission has been obtained for that area, to serve beer at the Howdy 
> Party and the Campground party. Additionally, wine may be served at the 
> Fellows/New Members reception, Auction night, and the NSS Awards Banquet. No 
> other alcoholic beverages will be provided. Adequate alternatives, such as 
> soft drinks, tea, and water will also be provided at these events.
> 
>  
> 
> Note: While the Board has discussed this on a prior occasion, other than 
> voting down the “no alcohol at all” motion on the floor at that time, the 
> Board has not codified what is acceptable. This motion is not designed to set 
> a new precedent, but to codify our understanding of the Board’s decision.
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you,
> 
>  
> 
> Ray Keeler
> 
> NSS 23245
> 
> Current Arizona Region President
> 
> Former NSS EVP, AVP, and Director
> 
>  
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/004e01d2e2dc%246734ed10%24359ec730%24%40net.
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[Texascavers] Giving Tuesday

2015-12-01 Thread RD Milhollin via Texascavers

Texas cavers

This Giving Tuesday remember the Texas Cave Management Association, YOUR cave 
conservancy working to protect, acquire and manage cave properties for now and 
for future generations. Today would be a great time to make that year-end 
donation to the help the TCMA purchase new preserves or to maintain and improve 
the great properties we have now. Not a bad time to consider legacy giving as 
well; have you thought about providing for future cave conservation activities 
through your estate planning? Besides money the TCMA also needs people! 
Members, volunteers, leadership, committee work... These are all necessary to 
carry on the good work. Thank you for your support of the TCMA and responsible 
cave management.

RD Milhollin
Outgoing Director, TCMA

Sent from my iPhone
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