Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy - community needs to enforce
We've consistently had people crowding in with cameras during the ramen noodle wrestling (later mud wrestling). I've taken the occassional picture, although mine never go online. Nontheless, I'm happy to trade asking people permission to photograph them for everybody feeling more comfortable about how they want to express themselves. I think that we, as a community, need to decide to enforce this policy. If everyone keeps a weather eye out, and politely asks camera barers to put the cell phones or cameras away (and potentially flags folks who refuse to comply), we'll actually have a better experience. ~~Thomas --- On Fri, 10/8/10, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu wrote: From: Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy To: Cave Tex texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, October 8, 2010, 3:11 PM You know, I hate to have to say it, but if you're concerned about the people at work or in your family or wherever seeing you naked in a photo (or doing whatever crazy thing), then don't do it during the daylight hours at TCR. That way no one can take an embarrassing photo of you. When 350+ people attend an event, there's no way you can really consider that to be a private gathering--and it has always been this way, even before the advent of social networking sites and the Internet. Diana * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Diana R. Tomchick Associate Professor University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center Department of Biochemistry 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. Rm. ND10.214B Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A. Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu 214-645-6383 (phone) 214-645-6353 (fax) On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:09 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote: Agreed, Butch, and the same with The TEXAS CAVER. I always try to make sure that whatever I print, I would be comfortable with if it was one of my family members or on the cover of the local newspaper (remember those?). If it would embarrass someone or is cave/landowner sensitive, i.e., gives directions to a certain cave, it doesn't go in. Luckily, neither has been a problem. BUT, in the age of Facebook and every yahoo in existence having a cellphone with a camera, how you will ever be able control this is beyond me. The genie is out of the bottle and it, along with personal privacy, has gone the way of the chariot and carbide. (See the Rutgers incident). Rest assured that Butch and I will be the epitome of privacy and good taste, relatively speaking in a caver sense. All the other avenues, good luck with all that! Mark P.S. - I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed sooner, this week or in prior years. From: Butch Fralia [mailto:bfra...@maverickgrotto.org] Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 9:01 AM To: 'Saj Zappitello'; Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy Is this an official policy or? Wouldn’t it be easier to just say don’t take photos of naked people? TCR is a difficult place to get photo permission for everyone in the photo, there could be hundreds. If we have to ask permission from everyone in the photo there wont be a TCR photo spread ever again. We always try to keep the website decent and not embarrass anyone. If they are embarrassed, they can request a photo be removed. Butch From: Saj Zappitello [mailto:sajar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 10:51 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] new TCR photography policy In the new generation of social networking sites (like facebook) and a global digital footprint, some of us have been brainstorming new ways to keep TCR a fun and free-spirited retreat from our usual social inhibitions. Our solution is to request that everyone participate in a new photography policy that has worked well at other free-spirited gatherings. Please DO NOT take photographs of anyone without their permission, and certainly do not post photographs of anyone online without permission. The way this works is simple--just ask people before you take their photograph, and ask them again if you want to post photos online. We will post a reminder of this new policy at registration. Let's keep this event fun and wild! Feel free to respond to me OFF LIST if you have comments about this. Thanks and happy caving! ~Saj UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] The incredible feat that is TCR
I'm amazed (and I know I'm not alone) by the incredible amount of work that is TCR; from the organizing, location, cooking, hot-tub, wrestling... all of these things (and more) are the product of a great amount of industry and passion from the people that make them happen. TCR is not an all-year theme park with full time paid employees. We want to encourage more people to contribute and we don't want to frustrate and shut down the people who already go far and beyond the call of duty. Bottom line: don't take it for-granted. I personally will always judge a venue when I get there, and not before, and if I don't like it I'll politely mention it to the organizers... in private. I know Allan enough to trust his judgement. Best Regards, ~~Thomas --- On Mon, 8/9/10, Allan Cobb a...@oztotl.com wrote: From: Allan Cobb a...@oztotl.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Location for TCR To: 'TexasCavers' texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Monday, August 9, 2010, 2:37 PM Well a week has passed since I offered to let someone come up with a better location. As expected, no one did. Did anyone even try? I doubt it. Over the past week, I thought about why I even bother organizing TCR if a very vocal minority will do nothing but complain. Is it really worth it? I think it is, that is why I do it. I've noticed that those who complain the most are the ones who actually do little or nothing to make TCR happen. Yet their vocal complaining is an irritation that I frankly don't need. It is also an irritation to others. Coming to TCR is your personal choice. If you choose not to come, fine, you miss the fun. TCR is put together by a very dedicated group of volunteers who spend more hours than they care to count getting everything ready, running, and breaking down TCR. Trust me, we don't do all this work to make ourselves heroes, we do it so that other can come out and have fun. Other than a few key volunteers, no one ever really sees all the people who work to make TCR happen. I want to thank all these people who put their time and effort into TCR. Thank you volunteers, thank you very much If people still want to complain about the location, go ahead, it really isn't too late to cancel TCR. Allan - Original Message - From: Allan Cobb To: 'TexasCavers' Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 9:58 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Location for TCR Since so many people have complained about my choice for the location of TCR, I am will to make a deal. Anyone who wants to can find a better site. For one week only, I am willing to change the location if a better site can be found. Here is your chance to make a difference. Channel all your energy that has been used for complaining into finding a site. Send me informaion on location, description, cost, and availability. Now get out there and get to looking! Allan - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
Riight. Because grenades are readily available in the United States. I buy them at 7-11 all the time so I can run 'em down south. --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Mike Gross mgr...@cwa-tseu.org wrote: From: Mike Gross mgr...@cwa-tseu.org Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard? To: Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.com, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com, caveran...@yahoo.com Cc: Cavetex texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 10:29 AM Nico-- Bravo. I was about to reply to caverannie and ask her to send the right wing crap somewhere else. In addition to the fact that nearly all weapons in Mexico are from the US (among the most intractable problems for Mexican law enforcement), and that nearly all demand for illegal drugs is from the US, there is also the fact -- reported in today's Austin and probably other newspapers -- that FBI statistics show that the area of the Mexico border is actually safer -- in terms of violent crime -- than many other parts of Texas and the country. Saludos Mike Gross At 08:15 AM 6/4/2010 -0700, Stefan Creaser wrote: Im gonna side with Nico :-) From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com Cc: Cavetex Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard? Sounds like a familiar blame game. Fritz From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM To: caveran...@yahoo.com Cc: Cavetex Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard? I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still asleep or something? with that behind let me just say a couple things: first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger) third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country. things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it. back to my corner Nico
Re: [Texascavers] a new camera
That sounds like a defect with that particular Olympus. My Olympus 770 SW is my preferred adventuring camera, and has gone snorkeling on many occasions, caving around Mexico (including the hot/cold Carizal), cave tubing in Belize, jostled and bumped horseback riding in Costa Rica, dropped in ice caves in Northern California, etc. without any ill effects. ~~Thomas --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com wrote: From: Chris Vreeland cvreel...@austin.rr.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] a new camera To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 7:15 AM Firefly makes a version of their slave that's designed to work with digital cameras -- the timing on them is somehow different from film cameras. I have a hot-shoe adaptor for my Nikon D50 which causes it to function with my Old Skool Vivitar 285, but with a point shoot built in flash, one of those digital Fireflys and one extra flash might not be too much to tote with a compact camera. The touch-screen seems worrisome, though. I thing it'd get pretty dirty pretty quick. My daughter's Olympus waterproof/shockproof camera couldn't withstand the shock of being carted around in her book bag, so I wouldn't put too much stock in them, either. On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:34 AM, David wrote: Here is a new camera that would easily fit in your cave pack: http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=4262 I doubt the flash is bright enough for cave photography, but is any pocket size camera? There is probably some cave passage where you don't want to drag photo equipment, like beyond the sump in Honeycreek. This camera might come in handy there. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action
Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants I love political activists who are very specific on shutting down energy production but very vague on creating it, e.g. Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy How about donate to build power lines to the T. Boons Pickins wind farms or research fund for cellulosic ethanol. Sorry, what was this about? Clean water? Yes, which goes to caves, and we don't have enough of it. Down with nuclear energy!! ~~T From: Logan McNatt lmcn...@austin.rr.com To: George Veni gv...@warpdriveonline.com Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 4:51:20 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Clean Water Action I've been donating to Clean Water Action since 2000, and they are still a viable national organization with a Texas chapter based in Austin: http://www.cleanwateraction.org/tx The first thing that impressed me was they still have people going door to door once a year, at least in south Austin where Gill and I live. Although Annalisa of GEAA said CWA does not get involved in local issues, the issues on their website include: The Coming Crisis: Water Availability and Municipal Conservation Efforts in Central Texas, Tell the Austin City Council To Support Clean Energy Tell San Anonio's [and New Braunfels', and Georgetown's] Mayor and City Council Not To Support Nuclear Energy Increase Funding for State Parks Get The Mercury Out Of Our Skies And Water Support A Moratorium On New Permits For Coal-Burning Power Plants Obviously they are an advocacy/lobbying group, so donations are not tax-deductible. I agree with Stephan that it seems like there is a lot of duplication of effort among the plethora of environmental groups, but many of the smaller groups are devoted to a specific geographic area or issue, and cannot actively lobby, unlike CWA. Logan George Veni wrote: Clean Water Action has been working in the Austin and San Antonio areas since at least the mid-1980s. They have worked to lobby government and agencies, and work cooperatively with other green groups to prevent water degradation. I haven’t seen them much in the past 10 years and don’t know if the organization crashed and is now recovering or if it simply got diverted to other projects in other areas. George From:bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:39 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Change of Subject--Clean Water RE: Clean Water Action A few months ago a fellow came by the house representing an outfit called 'Clean Water Action' ostensibly soliciting funds to promote awareness of and promoting lobbying for clean water in some form or fashion. Since clean water is a current topic of interest in South Austin and other parts of the world it would be a good thing to hype if one wanted to make a few bucks from folks with good environmental intentions but who haven't the time to keep up with every environmental interest group that comes along. I gave them a few bucks and signed their petition and filled out a personal data card. A few days ago I got a phone call from them asking for a pretty good slug of money. I asked for more information. A letter followed but with nebulous details. Does anybody have any knowledge of these guys? Where do they fit in with SOS, the City of Austin, the various water conservation districts that some of our cavers work at? Can anybody cite me any references of their good work? Etc, etc? If they're on the up-and-up I want to support them, but I've never heard of them before and want a better idea of who they are and what they really do. --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Trouble at PEMEX
I got taken on the bill swap between Merida and Cancun, and I knew better, I just wasn't paying attention. Now I always say the name of the bill and point my thumb at the numbers: Aqui tiene *doscientos* etc. Also, they'll fill you up with premium when you want regular, so watch that one too. ~~T From: Sheryl Rieck shri...@cableone.net To: Texas Cavers texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 1:59:00 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Trouble at PEMEX This is all very good information since we are going to Mexico on Saturday and I haven’t been in quite some time. Sheryl
[Texascavers] Cave off 620, near the Balcones Canyonlands Preserve?
I was just out picking prickly pears (this time with gloves) around my apartment complex and stumbled upon a cave entrance. It's small and covered in a grating, with no apparent way to gain access. The location is on an easement road that runs through the apartments from 620 to the Balcones Canyonlands Preserve (right near a locked gate to the same). Does anybody know about this cave, and whether it was surveyed before (presumably the apartment complex builders) grated it? Best Regards, ~~Thomas
Re: [Texascavers] Caves, mines, and buried treasures
Hi Mark, Very interesting! I grew up exploring a set of caves and silver mines in Orange County California, so the story of Silver Mine and Powell's is all the more compelling for me.** My father and grandfather were both treasure hunters, so the lore I've gathered from everyone has certainly spiced up my view of the rock trails and caves of Central Texas. Thanks to everyone who's written me; it looks like Coronado's Children is a must-read, and I have some interesting lore for the Austin Adventure guide. Best Regards, ~~Thomas ** Aside: The Blue Light Mine (outside Silverado, CA) discovered the natural caves quite tragically in the nineteenth century, as they were water filled until a miner discovered them. The resulting flood killed two mules and five miners, if I recall correctly. The cave section remains treacherous; some of its areas have air so bad they put out my father's carbide lamp. A few years after I moved to Texas I learned that some teenagers asphyxiated in them. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: From: Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Gold mines in Texas To: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 1:00 PM John Brooks said: In southern Oklahoma (north of here, in case you were wondering)there are legends of someone absconding with 20 “jackloads” of gold Hmm, that is suspiciously similar to some of the legends of the lost Bowie Mine around Menard. (What's a jackload? Probably something that a mule could carry. See http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/2009/05/in-stephens-county-oklahoma-near-town.html.) Texas cavers used to have access to a cave called Silver Mine quite close to Powell's. They are hydrologically related but so far not physically connected. Silver Mine has several entrances, most of which are artificial shafts sunk into the natural cave. At one time they had actually disassembled a bulldozer, taken it down a shaft, and reassembled it in the cave to move fill around in search of gold. I've seen it, and it's ptrobably still there. They never found anything, but someone sunk a lot of money into looking. That cave still has good leads, and sits in a strategic position between Powell's and the rumored Meteor Crater which was a collapse feature into a stream passage that has since filled in. I spent a lot of time at Silver Mine with William Russell, Jerry Atkinson and others in the '80's. That would be a nice cave to get back into. You can see a composite line plot in 50 Years of Texas Caving at http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/50_Years/Powell%27s_Cave.pdf. There are also several pages devoted to treasure hunting in Texas caves in Natural History of Texas Caves by Lundelius and Slaughter (1971), including the San Saba and Bowie stories. Here's another source of Texas treasure legends: http://www.legendsofamerica.com/TX-Treasure6.html. Mark Minton
[Texascavers] Gold mines in Texas
Sort of on-topic, and I know there are a lot of crack geologists on this forum: I've been researching Austin history and ghost stories, and came across a very dubious claim of a gold mine located at a place called Digger Hollow. I was unaware of any precious metal deposits in Central Texas, but I did find this intriguing tidbit on the web: - GOLD MINING. Gold mining has not been extensive in Texas, as the occurrence of the metal is limited. Main production, confined to the Presidio and Hazel mines in West Texas and the Heath mine in the Llano district, amounted to a total of 8,277 fine ounces by 1942 and was valued at $233,499. Most of the gold produced has come as the byproduct of silver and copper ores, but traces of it occur in the Shafter, Van Horn, Allamoore, and Quitman mountains, and in Howard, Taylor, Irion, Uvalde, and Williamson counties with other rocks and ores. Since the closing of the Presidio mine in September 1942 there has been little production of gold. BIBLIOGRAPHY: Thomas J. Evans, Gold and Silver in Texas (Mineral Resource Circular 56 [Austin: Bureau of Economic Geology, 1975]). University of Texas, Texas Looks Ahead: The Resources of Texas (Austin, 1944; rpt., Freeport, New York: Books for Libraries Press, 1968). --- Before I take the time to try and track the references in the bibliography, does anybody know anything about mining in Williamson country or nearby? Was that placer gold? The karst doesn't seem prime territory for hard rock mines, but then again, I'm a computer programmer, not a geologist :) Best Regards, ~~Thomas
[Texascavers] Mistaken identity
LOL, Mark, did you correct my name in the reply block? It's Sitch, as in, itch (what comes of poison ivy) with an S in front of it :) I need to create the Facebook group I'm not related to Tim Stich, in fact, neither of our names are spelled the same. I only put this out there for all of Cavetex because there have been confusions in membership status and identity between Tim and I. I don't know where the name Stich comes from, but my name, Sitch, is Ukrainian for Screech Owl. Bribed with a margarita, I will be happy to regale any interested party with the story of my prolific ancestor, the Paul Revere of Ukrainian history. My Best Regards, ~~Thomas --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: Thomas Stich said:
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip
Forgive my ignorance on the costs/logistics, but I am very curious about the cost/benefit of pushing forward. You could return with a cave radio, get a proper reading, and then drill a new well into the current passage beyond the sump, correct? What's the cost of drilling the well? Is that on the order of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars? Then the challenge would be pushing the second sump into whatever untold wonder or third sump exists beyond, correct? ~~Thomas --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu wrote: From: Minton, Mark mmin...@nmhu.edu Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Honey Creek Cave tank haul trip To: speleoste...@tx.rr.com, Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:09 AM Bill, The results were that James and Creature surveyed 1,000 feet of passage and reached another sump. Congratulations on some hard-won passage! Too bad about the next sump. :-( I guess passing that one is beyond the limits of reasonable effort with current technology. Mark Minton - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] Fw: Texas borders
Oklahoma and New Mexico are really client states of Texas anyhow. I'm sure
they get an easy time obtaining visas and work permits.
(You know, I've heard it said that anyone north of the Red River is a yankee,
but relations are so amicable between Okies and Texans that I've never seen an
Okie called a Yankee... I guess it's in the same joking tone as when Bavarians
say everyone north of the Danube is a Prussian).
~~T
--- On Mon, 6/1/09, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote:
From: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fw: Texas borders
To: Mark Alman texascav...@yahoo.com, texascavers@texascavers.com
texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 9:07 AM
#yiv1756319836 DIV {
MARGIN:0px;}
I think that the wall should have included our good neighbors, Oklahoma and New
Mexico within its borders. :)
Fritz
From: Mark Alman [mailto:texascav...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:07 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Fw: Texas borders
From the NM cavers a little west of here...
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/texas_constructs_u_s_border_wall?utm_source=c-section
Mark
- Forwarded Message
From: John Lyles j...@losalamos.com
To: nmca...@caver.net
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 1:46:31 PM
Subject: [NMCAVER] Texas borders
A little Texas humor
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/texas_constructs_u_s_border_wall?utm_source=c-section
___
NMCAVER mailing list
nmca...@caver.net
http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net
Re: [Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting – Wednesday April 29, 2009
Lord British is a caver? We should have the grotto meeting at his castle on Lake Austin instead. ~~T --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Gary Franklin garyfrankl...@austin.rr.com wrote: From: Gary Franklin garyfrankl...@austin.rr.com Subject: [Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting – Wednesday April 29, 2009 To: Texas Cavers Texascavers@texascavers.com Cc: rgarri...@spaceadventures.com rgarri...@spaceadventures.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 11:37 PM Underground Texas Grotto meeting April 29, 2009 www.utgrotto.org The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. on the University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html The Presentation will be by Richard Garriott Mission to the International Space Station Richard will talk about his life's journey that includes being a past member of the UT grotto, the pathway that led him to the ISS, and will also talk of the training, flight, and impressions of the earth from that flight. For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see the web site All of our information is available through our link including officer contact info. Check it out and surf around for information on trips reports, new caver training, calendar, and link to get included on mass postings for either beginner trips or vertical rope training. We are busy with all kinds of activities such as projects that we discuss after each of our meetings as well. Come out and hang out with us for burgers, beer, and tall tales at the after meeting at Posse East, 2900 Duval Rd www.posseeast.com The UT Grotto is always looking for someone like you that has great photos and a story to share about your caving adventures, or scientific research, or something else really cool. Contact Gary to get your place in the spotlight. v...@utgrotto.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] GPS Recomendation
Dear Friends, The time has come for me to ask for your help. The last time I was seriously doing any orienteering was in the military, and before that digging through USGS drawers at the local sporting goods store hoping to find the topo maps I wanted. I now find myself starting a business where I need a nice hand held GPS, and I obviously want it to do double duty on caving trips and karst walks. I'm looking to spend around $300, but can go higher if there's a really good model I should own. What do you recommend? Which models have served their owners well, and which ones have looked pretty and then broken down with the slightest abuse? My Best Regards, ~~Thomas
[Texascavers] When flags are flying...
Interesting, I’m seeing and hearing two different things. When it comes to the narco-traffickers and the violence I hear some folks saying something to the effect of “crime happens to other people,” “I went to Mexico and nothing bad happened, therefore there are no problems,” etc. I consistently hear from my Mexican friends such as Nico and Maria (and Nico can correct me if I’ve got it wrong) that you have to respect and stay the hell out of the way of the narco-traffickers. My grandfather likes the nautical term, “when there are flags flying, pay attention to the wind.” There is clear and obvious danger. No, we shouldn’t change our plans to go to Mexico; we cavers know the back roads, have many friends south of the boarder, and are generally wise and savvy travelers. But beware of the “it happens to other people” attitude. The murders and kidnappings have gotten bad enough that the highest levels of the Mexican government have been forced to pay attention (even in Cancun, I hear). Crackdowns are probably a good thing in the long run, but it probably means more bullets flying in the short term. ~~Thomas --- On Tue, 3/24/09, shri...@cableone.net shri...@cableone.net wrote: From: shri...@cableone.net shri...@cableone.net Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Traval Advisory for Mexico 3 To: texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 1:24 PM -Inline Attachment Follows- I agree with your statement, Gill. But, I do have to say that my uncle has lived in Harlingen for the last 30 years and he is now talking of moving to San Antonio because of all the trouble down there. They have had some drug war shootings down there as well. He is worried and he never worries. Sheryl Gill said: I'd say avoid giving credibility to any information you receive through the popular media. They create misinformation both intentionally and unintentionally--but it's still misinformation. Fear-mongering sells news and incites emotions. --Ediger Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] The East--West--Texas--East--The West
Don't forget the added complexity that truly old maps show the original North Texas running up to into a region referred to by it Yankee invaders as the State of Colorado. ~~T --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Gill Ediger gi...@worldnet.att.net wrote: Or is that North Texas? It is generally conceded, I think, that Dallas and Forth Wort, and those menial towns up near the Red River represent North Texas while the Pan Handle, which is farther north, does not.
Re: [Texascavers] The alter-Epic at Honey Creek Cave
An excellent and suspenseful telling, Puppy! I feel like it needs to be bound and placed on the shelf next to Into Thin Air. 'Glad you made it out in one piece :) Best Regards, ~~Thomas --- On Wed, 2/4/09, wwildch...@aol.com wwildch...@aol.com wrote: From: wwildch...@aol.com wwildch...@aol.com Subject: [Texascavers] The alter-Epic at Honey Creek Cave To: Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 10:42 AM Puppy here. I haven't opened my texas cavers mail folder in a long time (1,236 unread messages) since topics tend to vary way off of caving at times but I saw the epic Honey Creek title and couldn't help jumping back in to tell my long winded epic. So delete now if you've already seen the movie. Yes I had a bit more of an adventure than everyone else (well except for that lucky Ninja brown, but his adventure was fun). Diana isn't to blame and neither is Bill (although I won't ever let him forget he forgot me). I pushed myself too far by attempting HC 6 days after running a marathon. My feeble attempt to help Creature carry a tank back out made me realize just how far gone my body was and I should have stuck closer to someone. And by the way Creature is one of the most incredible super human cavers I have ever known. I watched her grab a tank and practically run when I could barely carry my pack and her Tang at a slow crawl. This is a bit long but it was my way to document for myself my experience so I thought i would share it as well. I remember passing the water well and yelling a good yahoo knowing the exit was near. plus at this point the water is deeper and much easier to float on my pack and rest my body with minimal effort of just moving with my toes. then came the cold and fog and I thought wow I didn't know there was another air access point (hhmmnn wonder if bill knows about this). so I kept going enjoying my easy float. then the fog cleared and after a few minutes I realized I apparently just had never looked up from following the crowds because this part of the cave is quite nice. rock bottom, nice and clear and quite pretty. I wondered if somehow I had taken a wrong turn so I stopped, listened and heard bill and several others splashing and talking still coming in my direction thus i must be going the right way still. I went on about 10 more minutes (I didn't have a watch) when I came across a very low ceiling and I knew I had never been here before. For the first time in hours my brain actually sparked and said oh shit. suddenly all the pieces: fog, cold, etc clicked.I turned back but I wasn't panicked because I would run into everyone in 10-15 min I was sure. It took about 10min to make my way back to the entrance going at a fast pace only to find three harnesses (two extras and my own) hanging but no cable. Not a problem they are just in the middle of un hooking people so I put my harness on, shined my light up a few times and waited, 5 min later nothing. I shined my brightest pelican light up the shaft and yelled for a minute or two but I knew that was useless if no one was actually looking down. I've been through this exit twice before so I knew it was a mad dash from the shaft to your tent to get dry and warm and shove something in your mouth then pass out. I was getting very cold very fast so I set a timeline of yelling for a few more minutes then I would focus on sheltering in place for the night. The low was around 35 that night and a strong wind comes straight down that shaft but I rationalized I couldn't ri sk moving farther back into the cave for fear someone would come back for the gear. Then my light died and I messed around with an alternate light and switching out another light out of creatures bag to make sure I had plenty of backup. I still had two long sleeve thermal shirts and two pairs of running tights and dry thermal socks that I had in my dry bag for the wait at the end. Creatures bag I just found a skimpy pair of spandex hotpants (sorry creature, but I got the biggest laugh out of that at that moment since there wasn't enough material to keep one nugget warm) The shaft area is all standing water, but through a crack near the floor where I could see a shelf of rock just above water level in the adjoining room. I put the gear bags against the crack to block the wind and went to the other side and moved lots of rock to make a bed. It was equivalent to climbing under a standard 2'x5' coffee table. once i was situated out of the water I attempted to exchange my boots and neoprene socks for a pair of nice dry thermal socks (not easily done with an 18 ceiling) along with the two pairs of tights (over my harness of course). my feet were already light blue and my toes dark blue when I put the socks on. I didn't want to put my wet boots back on so to keep them dry I dumped out my dry bag and put both feet in the bag in case my feet slipped
Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach
Hi Bill, Bravo! I think that speaks to my motivation for posting on outreach. We have a truly incredible community here, and the infrastructure built by cavers in Texas is beyond remarkable. Our relations with landowners, cities, parks, state government, and the many conservancies has been built over decades, and we need new generations and new blood to pass those torches on to. ~~T --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net wrote: From: Bill Bentley ca...@caver.net Subject: Re: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 6:48 PM Thomas, On a recent cave trip we had some new younger members help us in a cave dig. (They joined the PBSS Grotto later), They not only made me feel young through their exuberance, but I thought one of them was going to fall on the ground and start hollering we're not worthy!. It made me feel weird to have young cavers admiring me because I have been caving for a long while. I am glad to see the new young people get interested in caving. I have been a member of the NSS since 1981. I can honestly say that the PBSS has always made all new comers feel welcome no matter what their experience level is, or their age. We have never had the luxury of so many members that anyone could ever be selective or splinter off into niche groups. I also think it is important that every caver go on a cave trip at least once with a group of cavers that he doesn't know or just met. It can give you a better perspective of how other groups go caving. From the tone of the trip, expertise, to the techniques used, and to how people interact. I have done this before and besides being interesting, it can be fun. I know what you mean about feeling out of place in a different group. I just persevered and eventually as they say...They have no choice but to accept you, cause you won't go away Bill - Original Message - From: Thomas Sitch To: Cavers Texas Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: [Texascavers] On the value of outreach Okay, a little background. I’ve been caving since I was 7 or 8, when my dad and brother and I explored lava tubes we found by the road or sea caves along the coast in California . Around age twelve I convinced my dad to join the NSS, and we became part of the SoCal Grotto that met at CalTech in Pasadena . I’ve been a casual (but registered) caver ever since, some 20 years now. Please understand that what follows is the most constructive of criticism. I love cavers, I enjoy hanging out with my fellow cavers, and many of the best adventures I’ve had or seen have been part of going to, returning from, or exploring a cave. I also love grotto meetings: I’ve seen slide shows of cavers treed by jaguars (looking down), stalactites shot through with silver and precious minerals, and ancient caves in the Philippines with aboriginal dugout coffins piled up. I (very courteously) disagree with Mixon’s point that there’s a clique for everybody. That’s not really how it looks from the outside. It was very hard to “break in” and feel welcome at the UT Grotto. There were some people who went out of the way to do so (such as Jean, or Aimee) and I will always feel incredible gratitude to them for that. Now I know lots of people and count many friends and it’s a good time, but I see a lot of new people show up and sit largely excluded. Despite the fact that UT is the largest public university in the country, I believe our current number of actual current students can be counted on two hands; maybe just one. We can do better than that. Cavers have a common frame of reference. We’ve had adventures together, and that makes a camaraderie not unlike being old war buddies. That makes it very comfortable to sit with your friends and talk about old or new trips, and uncomfortable to look to new faces. Also, some cavers have very strong views on politics and religion, and this makes for a “self selecting group,” since some people feel unwelcome. As much as I think sacrifices to Oztotl should be mandatory*, being respectful of a diverse set of viewpoints is a better way to go. The tough stick it out, sure. Once people go on trips and gain the trust of the Old Guard they, too, have a common frame of reference. But we lose a lot of good people long before that, and we lose the other good people that they would refer to the world of the dedicated adventuring caver. My point here is that for the good of the caving community we should do more to seek out and welcome new blood. If everyone makes an effort – a conscious effort- to engage new people, we’ll grow and be better for it as a community. Best Regards, ~~Thomas * Joking --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: From
Re: [Texascavers] Thomas - UT Grotto Newbie Herder
Ha ha! Matt Zapitello and I had this exact discussion several months ago at lunch. My answer’s the same: Everyone needs to be the newbie greeter. Now, just to be clear, I think that we kick ass as a grotto, and we have a lot of beginner trips and a lot of great opportunities that are presented at every meeting (Colorado Bend with Crash, various cool Peter Sprouse expeditions etc.). It’s the social component (welcoming, conversation, Posse talk, etc.) where I think we can be more mindful, and that involves everyone in a collective effort. ~~T --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Terri Sprouse posada...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Terri Sprouse posada...@yahoo.com Subject: [Texascavers] Thomas - UT Grotto Newbie Herder To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com, dreadfl...@yahoo.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 8:30 PM Thomas, Sounds like you just volunteered to take over the role of Newbie Herder for the grotto. Should we vote on it at the next meeting? I agree, the reality is that the best way to get to know cavers is to go on a caving trip with them. I wonder how many people who come to the grotto meeting have not been on a caving trip. We need a point person for the UT Grotto to follow-up with our newbies to ensure that they GET ON A TRIP, even if its just locally to Whirlpool. That is really what opens the door, socially. After a series of training trips, most newbies either bond with other cavers, or they won't. It's up to them. Not that the rest of us won't have to make an effort too but, in addition, I think we could really use someone who is designated to follow-up - to absolutely make sure that the invitation (and possibly follow-up invitations) to go on trips is personally made to each of the newbies. Could that person be you, Thomas? --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Thomas Sitch dreadfl...@yahoo.com wrote: It was very hard to “break in” and feel welcome at the UT Grotto. There were some people who went out of the way to do so (such as Jean, or Aimee) and I will always feel incredible gratitude to them for that. Now I know lots of people and count many friends and it’s a good time, but I see a lot of new people show up and sit largely excluded. snip The tough stick it out, sure. Once people go on trips and gain the trust of the Old Guard they, too, have a common frame of reference. But we lose a lot of good people long before that, and we lose the other good people that they would refer to the world of the dedicated adventuring caver. My point here is that for the good of the caving community we should do more to seek out and welcome new blood. If everyone makes an effort – a conscious effort- to engage new people, we’ll grow and be better for it as a community. Best Regards, ~~Thomas - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] On the value of outreach
Okay, a little background. I’ve been caving since I was 7 or 8, when my dad and brother and I explored lava tubes we found by the road or sea caves along the coast in California. Around age twelve I convinced my dad to join the NSS, and we became part of the SoCal Grotto that met at CalTech in Pasadena. I’ve been a casual (but registered) caver ever since, some 20 years now. Please understand that what follows is the most constructive of criticism. I love cavers, I enjoy hanging out with my fellow cavers, and many of the best adventures I’ve had or seen have been part of going to, returning from, or exploring a cave. I also love grotto meetings: I’ve seen slide shows of cavers treed by jaguars (looking down), stalactites shot through with silver and precious minerals, and ancient caves in the Philippines with aboriginal dugout coffins piled up. I (very courteously) disagree with Mixon’s point that there’s a clique for everybody. That’s not really how it looks from the outside. It was very hard to “break in” and feel welcome at the UT Grotto. There were some people who went out of the way to do so (such as Jean, or Aimee) and I will always feel incredible gratitude to them for that. Now I know lots of people and count many friends and it’s a good time, but I see a lot of new people show up and sit largely excluded. Despite the fact that UT is the largest public university in the country, I believe our current number of actual current students can be counted on two hands; maybe just one. We can do better than that. Cavers have a common frame of reference. We’ve had adventures together, and that makes a camaraderie not unlike being old war buddies. That makes it very comfortable to sit with your friends and talk about old or new trips, and uncomfortable to look to new faces. Also, some cavers have very strong views on politics and religion, and this makes for a “self selecting group,” since some people feel unwelcome. As much as I think sacrifices to Oztotl should be mandatory*, being respectful of a diverse set of viewpoints is a better way to go. The tough stick it out, sure. Once people go on trips and gain the trust of the Old Guard they, too, have a common frame of reference. But we lose a lot of good people long before that, and we lose the other good people that they would refer to the world of the dedicated adventuring caver. My point here is that for the good of the caving community we should do more to seek out and welcome new blood. If everyone makes an effort – a conscious effort- to engage new people, we’ll grow and be better for it as a community. Best Regards, ~~Thomas * Joking --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com Subject: [Texascavers] county cavers To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 2:56 PM There's an expression for the problem people have just pointed out with Ediger's outreach idea. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. What fraction of people who show up at one or two grotto meetings do we ever see again? And at least the UT Grotto is large enough that there should be a clique for anyone really interested. A lot of the county cavers are just high-school students out for a bit of adventure with their buddies. Next week they'll be floating down a river and the week after that trying not to die rock climbing. (The frustrating thing to me is that you know the owner's son and his buddies can go into that closed cave any time they want to.) Or they're a couple of good ol' boys who just thought they'd check out that hole on Joe's place, for want of anything better to do that day. As long as we do make an effort to provide some training and beginners trips for those who track us down, I don't see what more we can do. I'm sure there are a few real cavers who just aren't joiners, but there's not much we can do about it. I know one guy who was a hard-core and very active caver and grotto member for thirty years and would never join the NSS. Finally he did, but only because he hooked up with a woman who insisted on dragging him to NSS conventions.--Mixon -- You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Mexico #18 of 20
Maybe I'm missing something, but the article reads: 20 of the world's most dangerous places, not the 20 most dangerous places. Ergo it could be 20 sensational headlines of the worlds 1,000 most dangerous places. Which means, in fact, that no hard journalism was involved ;) Having a Mexican girlfriend and going to Mexico quite frequently I agree with the general sentiment: places that cavers go (hinterlands) or primary tourist destinations (Cancun, Acapulco) are just fine. Areas with narcotraffickers, boarder towns, and Mexico City are best avoided. Maria insists that even Chiapas is quite safe for tourists these days. The caver incidents were just during the uprising, right? Best Regards, ~~Thomas --- On Sat, 11/29/08, Sheryl Rieck shri...@cableone.net wrote: From: Sheryl Rieck shri...@cableone.net Subject: [Texascavers] Mexico #18 of 20 To: texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 9:50 PM Below is a link to a listing of the 20 most dangerous places. George was wondering if you think it is more dangerous in Mexico now than it was 20 years ago. We haven’t been to Mexico in a while, but we were surprised to see it on this list. Sheryl From: gwsand...@cableone.net [mailto:gwsand...@cableone.net] Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:45 PM To: shri...@cableone.net Subject: link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/3534072/In-pictures-worlds-most-dangerous-places.html Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net
