[Texascavers] TCR Friday Night Wine Tasting

[jranzau]

There might be a Texas Caver Gathering, Speleo Olympics, Meetings, and an 
Auction.  We can’t know for sure. 

What we do know is that we’re bringing back the official - unofficial Friday 
night wine tasting at TCR! 10/14/22

We’ll be up top nearish to the vendors and other groups. Starts around dark 30 
or really whatever time we get ourselves together. 

Look for the group of cavers loitering around a table with more wine bottles 
than seems reasonable. 

No official group food but someone usually brings snacks. Be like that person, 
wine goes better with snacks!

If you don’t drink wine, you do you and bring what ya like. We’ll judge but 
we’ll still “taste” with you!

Joe Ranzau
210.289.6839
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Re: [Texascavers] Deep Cave claustrophobia video :

[jranzau]

Yep, it hit twitter pretty hard Tuesday and Wednesday of this week too. 

Damn crazy cavers!

Joe Ranzau
210.289.6839

> On Feb 5, 2022, at 7:30 AM, Jerry  wrote:
> 
> 
> This video has gone somewhat viral on the internet : Ethan at Deep Cave. 
> 
> https://www.tiktok.com/foryou?is_copy_url=1_from_webapp=v1_id=7041043980124949765#/@stickfigureboy99/video/7041043980124949765
> 
> Jerry Atkinson.
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Re: [Texascavers] Looking for Triston Nguyen

[jranzau]

That depends entirely on Triston!

No pressure…

Joe Ranzau
210.289.6839

> On Oct 31, 2021, at 6:01 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:
> 
> How much was raised by the auction in support of the good work of the TCMA?
> 
> Bill Steele
> Irving, Texas
> 
>> On Oct 31, 2021, at 2:59 PM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey all - 
>> 
>> Triston or someone that knows them, please reach out to me offline at 
>> i...@tcmacaves.org to settle your TCR auction tab.  There was a typo in our 
>> notes so we can’t do it without email with you.  Apologies, we had a 
>> technology snag at the auction.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Joe Ranzau
>> 210.289.6839
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[Texascavers] TCMA Suspending Cave Access

[jranzau]

The Texas Cave Management Association will immediately suspend access to our 
owned and managed caves through Friday, May 1, 2020. 

Any exception to this policy must be approved by the Executive Committee 
(Officers) of the Board. 

We will monitor the situation and adjust as necessary. Please email 
i...@tcmacaves.org with any questions or concerns.

Joe Ranzau
President | Texas Cave Management Association
www.tcmacaves.org
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Re: [Texascavers] Please help Honey Creek Cave...

[jranzau]

TCMA will be there. 

Joe Ranzau
210.289.6839

> On Mar 13, 2020, at 7:31 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks, Kurt. I’m planning to do both: submit written comments to TCEQ and 
> show up on March 19. Even though it’s a 260
> mile drive for me, I love and care about Honey Creek Cave enough be there. 
> 
> Good caving,
> 
> Bill Steele 
> Irving, Texas 
> speleoste...@aol.com
> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 13, 2020, at 7:14 PM, Kurt Menking  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> As many of you know a development is planned at the top of the Honey Creek 
>> watershed. They plan to drip / inject up to 360,000 gallons per day of 
>> treated wastewater into the karst terrain above the nearby Honey Creek Cave. 
>> Their goal is to build 1800 homes which would also create an enormous amount 
>> of storm runoff which would carry many contaminants including much of their 
>> drip wastewater into Honey Creek and ultimately the Guadalupe river. This 
>> would seriously impact TPWD conservation lands and the Guadalupe State Park. 
>>  
>> 
>> The owner of Honey Creek Cave is mortified by this issue.  She is hopefull 
>> that the cavers who have enjoyed HC Cave in the past, will show up March 19 
>> to show and voice there concern over this issue.
>> 
>> If 50 people show up to this meeting, TCEQ will approve the permit and we'll 
>> all have to live with the consequences.  If 300 people show up and or 
>> comment, TCEQ will spend months dealing with responses, and other red tape. 
>> That would also prompt the developer to back off his density and negotiate 
>> with the opposition. 
>> 
>> If you can't make the meeting, then please make written comments to TCEQ.
>> 
>> Details on meeting, and TCEQ comments are below:
>> 
>> The TCEQ public meeting for the Texas Land Application (TLAP) Permit for 
>> Honey Creek Ranch (Proposed Permit Number WQ0015835001) is scheduled for 
>> March 19th at 7:pm at Rahee Bulverde Elementary School, 1715 East Ammann 
>> Road, Bulverde, Texas.  Our baseline water quality studies of Honey Creek 
>> indicate that this is probably one of the cleanest natural streams in the 
>> whole state of Texas.  Given that the state has invested substantially in 
>> the Honey Creek State Natural Area to preserve this treasure, as well as in 
>> the Guadalupe State Park - the popular water recreational area immediately 
>> downstream, we feel that the risk of both waste water and stormwater 
>> pollution from a high density subdivision is something we should make every 
>> effort to mitigate. March 19th will be the last day to submit comments on 
>> this project. You may submit your comments on-line by entering WQ0015835001. 
>> Or you can mail comments to TCEQ Office of the Chief Clerk, MC-105, PO Box 
>> 13087, Austin, Texas 78711-3087 - or in person during the comment period 
>> that follows the Question and Answer session on March 19. For more 
>> information click here and scroll down to Honey Creek.
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Re: [Texascavers] TCMA Member's Meeting

[jranzau]

Cavers and TCMA members, this will be a meeting you don’t want to miss.   

We have several things to update the membership on such as new preserve 
managers, our Honey Creek Cave access agreement, our candidates for the board, 
oh and we’ve gone and done a thing you’ll really want to hear about!

Shh, don’t tell...

Joe Ranzau
210.289.6839

> On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:20 PM, Lindsey Adamoski  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> TCMA will have our Member's Meeting at Texas Caver's Reunion at noon on 
> Saturday. That's October 12th. If you're not a member, you can sign up at 
> TCR. You won't want to miss this meeting! 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Lindsey Adamoski
> TCMA Secretary
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[Texascavers] Honey Creek Cave and TCMA

[jranzau]

Cavers -

We are excited to announce that Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) and 
the owners of Honey Creek Springs Ranch (private property) have negotiated a 
formal access and monitoring agreement for Honey Creek Cave, the longest cave 
in Texas.  

Honey Creek Cave is a water cave with more than 21 miles of surveyed passage, 
often described as an underground river, and the resurgence serves as the 
headwaters for the flowing section of Honey Creek.  This surface stream is 
known for its superior water quality and unique ecosystem. Honey Creek (surface 
stream) is surrounded almost in its entirety by Honey Creek State Natural Area, 
a unit of TPWD. 

TCMA and our members will have four trips a year for scientific, exploration 
(survey), and limited recreational access.  In return, we will formalize our 
monitoring efforts on water quality, cave biota and the overall impacts the 
cave is experiencing. The surrounding area is experiencing an explosion of 
property development and faces significant risks from water pumping, waste 
water discharge, aggregate mining, and general impacts from increased human 
activity. 

Kurt Menking will serve as our inaugural project manager. Bill Steele will lead 
the renewed survey efforts. They have a combined experience of nearly 80 years 
with the cave. 

Many thanks to the owners of Honey Creek, Kurt Menking, Bill Steele, Andy 
Gluesenkamp, Greg Mosier, Ellie Thoene, Linda Palit and many others for their 
hard work maintaining land owner relationships these past many years. 

We are currently working with key folks to establish our trip schedule, access 
guidelines, monitoring protocols etc. 

Stay tuned for more information on how you can help TCMA fulfill our mission 
and visit Honey Creek Cave. For membership information please visit our 
website. For questions please contact i...@tcmacaves.org. 

Joe Ranzau
President | Texas Cave Management Association
www.tcmacaves.org
210.289.6839

Permission is granted to distribute this announcement. 
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Re: [Texascavers] Volunteer w/ Truck Needed

[jranzau]

My experience at these things has been that cattle calls have less than a 50-50 
chance of working. You have to engage folks directly, beg, shame em, bribe em. 
That said, few people in Austin drive big trucks these days and the ones that 
do are usually already hauling various gear for the caving orgs. 

You’re welcome to stage it at my place closer to the site and then retrieve it 
if you don’t find a better option. 

Cheers!

Joe Ranzau
210.289.6839

> On Aug 31, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Trevor McClymont  wrote:
> 
> G’day fellow Cavers,
> 
> With TCR just around the corner we need a volunteer to haul out the cook 
> trailer Thursday night (October 18).  Needless to say the trailer is critical 
> for  Saturday night’s feast.  I have posted to several Facebook pages with 
> little luck finding someone willing to tow the trailer out and back. 
> 
> The trailer is in Austin at the new caving HQ.  It requires a 2-5/16” ball.   
> 
> Please let me know if you are willing to haul it out on Thursday and return 
> it after TCR.   Thanks.
> 
> 
> TCR Head Chef - Trevor McClymont.  
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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[Texascavers] Wine tasting this Friday 10/13 at TCR!

[jranzau--- via Texascavers]

Friday night wine tasting at TCR!  Starts at dusk-30 or really whenever folks 
want. 

We are normally down by the river just below the lodge. Look for the large 
group of people with lots of wine. Bring your own chair. 

Please bring something to share with the group. If you don’t drink wine, bring 
mead, moonshine, or your favorite microbrew. 

Try not to bring anything in a box, with a wallaby on the front or from a 
corporation that also owns theme parks...  We’ll still drink it, we’ll just be 
snooty about it!


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Re: [Texascavers] Pending rain and flooding in Southeastern Texas

[jranzau--- via Texascavers]

Channeling Captain Obvious here...  This would not be the best weekend to 
explore your favorite central Texas water cave!

We have a big barn out near Honey Creek Cave if folks get hard up for someplace 
dry. 

Ciao,

Joe Ranzau
210.289.6839

> On Aug 24, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Denise P via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ditto, though small house so maybe only 1 family :)
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Denise
> 
> From: Texascavers  on behalf of Geary 
> Schindel via Texascavers 
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 3:06 PM
> To: 'texascavers@texascavers.com'
> Cc: Geary Schindel
> Subject: [Texascavers] Pending rain and flooding in Southeastern Texas
>  
> Folks,
>  
> Looks like the tropical storm in the gulf is intensifying and they are 
> calling for near record to record rainfall along the coast and inland in the 
> Houston Area tomorrow through Sunday.
>  
> This is a slow moving storm and may result in a great deal of flooding.
>  
> If you’re thinking of leaving the area and need a place to say, we can open 
> our house up to a few caving families.
>  
> Be aware that we have two cats.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Geary Schindel
> gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
> San Antonio, Texas
> 210.326.1576 cell
>  
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[Texascavers] Article from the 60's about Blair Pittman and Caving in Bustamante

[jranzau]

Don't worry, the link goes to the google book search... It was much too  
long ta post directly.


http://tinyurl.com/yanp4lm

Ranzau

Re: RE: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member

[jranzau]

Hey Mark -

In addition to being a current TCMA Board Member and Officer I have also  
been the TSA Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and served in multiple  
grotto officer positions. I am not trying to attack or discredit anyone's  
hard work and certaily not shock and dismay anyone. I appreciate what  
everyone does and have done much more shocking things than a one word  
email. I was also sitting right beside Ellie on a couch discussing options  
for things to do at Spring Convention when I responded to her email.


The Items you mentioned are quite good but I can't help but wonder what  
unique things the TSA provides me besides a great caving magazine? This is  
the same issue I struggled with when I was an officer.


*TCC is bailing out the convention and honestly replicates it at their big  
winter event with talks and caving. Might not be quite as good but if it  
were the only one I bet it would grow.
*TCR throws one hell of a party without politics or much TSA support (aside  
from running registration so TSA can gather memberships). I do believe TCR  
is explicitly prohibited from merging with TSA and has bailed TSA out  
financially on more than one occasion.
*The land fund donation to TCMA came from NSS seed money from hosting the  
94 convention. The TSA decided it would make a nice contribution to TCMA  
because it was not growing much under TSA and was a bit of a hassle.
*It was quite nice of TSA to help refurbish the Honey Creek shaft. Our  
grotto put it in during the 80's and many grottos donate money to keep the  
tractor working and maintain the ranch. It helps but is not unique.
*TSA projects exist nicely on their own. CBSP would continue without TSA,  
probably in a different form. The new Amistad project is run through the  
TSS? The Rancho Diana project in SA is just one caver. The Austin group is  
working a huge cave ranch near spring branch. etc.
*TexasCavers.com and CaveTex before it seemed to take pride in not being  
affiliated with TSA.
*The NSS runs the WNS fund and many grottos including several I belong to  
contributed.


I'm not sure what unique benefit the TSA provides me other than a magazine  
with a membership and fellowship opportunities. This is not necessarily a  
bad thing and thankfully for everyone is just my two cents.


Joe



On Dec 14, 2009 7:16am, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:



Some of the other items the
TSA has supported:







* A sizeable donation to the NSS for their
White Nose Syndrome Rapid Response Effort.





* Purchase and refurbishment of quite a lot
of survey equipment used around the state for various projects.





* A huge donation to the TCMA towards the
payoff of the Punkin and Deep cave purchase.







Plus, many other smaller projects that are
listed in the TSA Meeting minutes.







(Joe, I'm rather shocked and dismayed you
would ask this. You're a board member of the TCMA and were present when we
conducted the votes on all of the above items). 8^(









Mark









From: Lyndon Tiu
[mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca]
Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 5:50 PM
To:
texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a
Digital Online Member







ellie :) wrote:
 The TSA membership fees cover much
more than the cost of The Caver



Joe Ranzau wrote:

Like?




Sending a few deserving cavers from other countries to the
ICS, the TSA
paid for their registration.



--
Lyndon
Tiu



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Re: Re: [Texascavers] Thoughts about the TSA Spring Convention

[jranzau]

Sorry, I was emailing while driving (I know...)

My point was not so much that Rudy's was the problem, as is catering in  
general. Crash had the same problem with expensive food at Ft. M. and  
Jacquie had the same problem at Albert.


That being said, unlike the world according to Kunath, a good number of  
folks like the convenience and experience of the communal meal.


Joe

On Dec 3, 2009 9:23am, John Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Well Rudys or not.the break even for that convention like many others  
was a very narrow window.at 105.the convention made money.



The late choice of Rudys was made when the other catering arrangements  
proved more expensive..due to excessive transport charges from Austin.



Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 3, 2009, at 7:05 AM, Joe Ranzau jran...@gmail.com wrote:




Oh, come now... Bizarre is not one of the many adjetives I would use to  
describe Ron. (if my memory is correct)




I also think it had
to do with catering Rudy's BBQ. Not cheap.




Stefan et al make damn tastey food at the right caver price.






Joe




On Dec 3, 2009, at 8:43 AM, John Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote:




The bizzare hat pass was initiated by someone in attendance, not the  
TSA, when it was noted in the TSA meeting that the convention did not  
break even.

The causes of being over budget were:
1. The Knox Ranch was expensive



Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 2, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Carl Kunath carl.kun...@suddenlink.net
wrote:







Some of the recent comments about the TSA spring
convention are thought-provoking and a bit amusing.





First, let's establish exactly where we stand
geographically. Look at this map





http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/100-250_miles_from_Burnet.jpg





to find the point most central to all known
Texas caving groups (we need a circle with radius = 250 miles). Since
Texas is a big place, and since we don't often have the option of  
choosing where
we want to be and when we want to be there, some TSA members are going to  
have

longer journeys than others. That said, it's not too realistic to have the
Convention at the extreme edges of the group territory. In years past,
it's been as far west as San Angelo, but mostly it's been within that  
inner 100

mile circle centered on Burnet. That's really handy for Austin, San
Antonio, and others on the I-35 corridor but not so good for Houston,  
Midland,

Wichita Falls, and Lubbock. It's better to gather at a central location
rather than in Wichita Falls, Houston, or Midland -- places that would
inconvenience 95% of the attendees.





David Locklear's emphasis seems poorly
placed. He is more interested in the recreational possibilities in the
immediate area than in the Convention itself. The Convention was not
designed to be a recreational weekend except as opportunity and  
inclination may

allow. Earlier Conventions would usually have one or more field trips
available for Sunday but were set so as not to conflict with formal
Convention activities. It is, after all, a CAVING Convention and should
not be oriented toward bicycling, kayaking, hiking, bird-watching,  
swimming, or

whatever.





The TSA Convention was conceived as an annual
gathering where information could be shared in a somewhat formal setting  
with

others of like mind. To that end, there are some requirements.






There must be a meeting room large enough for
the expected group.



The room must be made reasonably dark
for media presentations.



Climate control is almost a must as the spring
weather in Texas is unpredictable.



The room itself should be somewhat acoustically
dead.



There must be appropriate space to display the
photo and map salons.



There should be crowd control.





Lacking crowd control, we find that if camping
is just outside the door, people continuously wander in and out of the  
room

while presentations are taking place. It's probably better if camping is
at least a few miles away so that people are either at the Convention  
(isn't
that why they are here?) or at the campground -- at least until more  
considerate

behavior is evidenced. Recently, some
convention attendees have been rude in the extreme and some tended to  
gather in

the back of the room and carry on as if nothing else was happening.
The last Kerrville convention was the worst I have ever seen in this
regard.





Historically, Conventions were held at
scholastic locations and the camping was remote. The evening meal was
sourced individually either at a nearby food place or prepared at the
campground. The present-day pattern of cavers cooking for the crowd may be
more hassle than it's worth. Eliminate the need for kitchen facilities and
choice of venues is far simpler.





The Convention that Preston Forsythe referenced
where a hat was passed to offset a financial shortfall was at the Knox  
Ranch

near Wimberley in 2006. Convention registration was noted as 110 -- about
average for recent years. No 

Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related

[jranzau]

Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie was  
that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets her budget,  
her travel constraints, her whims etc than it is the right place. No matter  
what, someone will be unhappy.


By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding an  
affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically would  
love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the conference room  
is a bit low for presentations and close camping is problematic. CWAN is in  
a good location but has no potable water, dry weather only camping and we  
would have to work around the tours in the cave. Most of us loath the  
thought of going back to Kerrville after the bout of Irritable Caver  
Syndrome that hit us this summer. Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out  
in, well, Sonora! Cascade Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of  
prep work and you might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett  
was fun but the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on.


We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that works!  
If you don't like it run for TSA VP.


Joe

On Dec 2, 2009 3:26pm, Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu  
wrote:

Stefan,




Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in West  
Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in Houston have a  
long drive.





Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive.




If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA Convention,  
you find a way to get there.





Diana





On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote:






The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I



think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the



center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want



to drive all the way to East Texas?





Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we



don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen



would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide).





Cheers,



Stefan





-Original Message-



From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]



Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM



To: Cavers Texas



Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related





Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential



site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention.





I would like to make a motion that this camp be on



the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention.





I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp



to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge.



He immediately replied, and said he would mention



it to the committee that controls this camp.





I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to



other choices that were mentioned.





This place does not have any karst or any of the



scenery of the Texas Hill Country. However, it



is out in the sticks.





Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the



John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been



held at before.





I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock.









I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would cost at least $ 600



for the 3 day weekend.





The camp committee may say they are not interested. If that



happens, then maybe TSA could offer $ 800 or more, as



I imagine they are too cash-strapped for renovation.





Portable facilities could be erected if necessary, like the big tarp



with the Oztotl logo.





I am NOT trying to side step the procedures. I am only trying to



see what interest is out there for holding the event at CHH. If



the motion fails, I am not going to lose any sleep or get



my feelings hurt.





David Locklear





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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Diana R. Tomchick



Associate Professor



University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center



Department of Biochemistry



5323 Harry Hines Blvd.



Rm. ND10.214B



Dallas, TX 75390-8816, USA



Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu



214-645-6383 

[Texascavers] Ciudad Victoria - Hacienda name needed

[jranzau]

A few years ago on a trip to Brinco we stopped at a old Hacienda at the  
base of the mountain that was being converted into a hotel. Does anyone  
know its name or if it has a website?


Joe

[Texascavers] Proposed Dam at Government Canyon SNA

[jranzau]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/environment/Watershed_oversight_no_simple_matter.html

A dam at Government Canyon is one of the most effective ways to save homes  
from flooding on the Northwest Side, according to the San Antonio River  
Authority.


It's also one of the fastest ways to upset those who care about and even  
worked to create the state natural area.


The dam project is one of the latest to be considered by SARA, Bexar  
County, San Antonio and the surrounding suburban cities working to produce  
the area's first regional watershed management plan, which aims to reduce  
flood risks, improve water quality and use better technology for flood  
analysis and warning.


“That's really the big thing,” said Nefi Garza, floodplain manager for  
SARA. “We have been doing all these projects in a reactive mode: We hear of  
complaints, we go and fix that. Now we are looking at the area as a whole.”


Starting Wednesday and continuing through July, the river authority along  
with city and county representatives will host a series of meetings to  
explain proposed projects and get feedback.


Once the plan is completed, the city will be able to raise fees on  
developers to finance the dams, culverts and drainage improvements the city  
and county build to handle the added rainfall runoff their developments  
cause.


“Our goal is to quantify what those costs are and then those costs will be  
proportioned out to future development,” said Richard Mendoza, assistant  
director of San Antonio's public works department. “Right now everyone is  
paying the same, and it's just not enough.”


By analyzing at the watersheds, the city and county can build flood control  
projects where they are best suited rather than focus on jurisdiction —  
which often means putting dams far upstream from the areas they're designed  
to protect, Garza said.


At Government Canyon, for example. Putting a dam there would help protect  
homes and businesses near Loop 410.


But putting an earthen dam across sensitive wildlife habitat because of  
poor planning downstream does not make sense to some.


“It's a horrible idea,” said Gary Candy, who organizes the volunteer trail  
patrol at Government Canyon State Natural Area, which opened in 2005 on  
land bought for that purpose in 1993. “We will lobby very hard against it.  
We will talk to all the political entities to try and stop this thing.”


They won't be alone.

“This is the people's park,” said area Superintendent Deirdre Hisler. “The  
people found the land and they put it together. Maybe this is what the  
process will vet out.”


It would be impossible to build the dam without harming endangered species,  
Hisler said.


Planners say the advantages of a dam there are legion.

The streams that cut through the state natural area eventually feed into  
Leon Creek. If the water in Government Canyon could be held back during a  
flood, downstream residents would be hit only by water coming off built-up  
areas in the Leon Creek watershed.


Once those floodwaters passed, the water still behind the Government Canyon  
dam — some of it would have helped recharge the Edwards Aquifer — could be  
released slowly.


SARA does not yet have an exact location or dimensions for the proposed  
dam, and would leave those decisions to the county engineers in charge of  
building it. The structure would need to hold back 4,360 acre-feet of water.


The city collects about $6 million a year from developers, Mendoza said,  
and that does not come close to covering the cost of the backlog of  
projects the city and county would like to build.


In San Antonio, developers that choose not to build their own storm water  
detention structures pay between $2,600 and $3,000 per acre of development,  
depending on how much impervious cover is built on the property.


By comparison, developers in Austin pay on a sliding scale starting at  
$60,000 for the first acre of impervious surface for a commercial or  
multihousing development and $35,000 for the first acre of a single-family  
development. The cost then diminishes per acre of cover, but remains well  
above what most developers in San Antonio would pay.

Re: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online!

[jranzau]

really, do we all need to have to read your email response to Mark?
this is the kind of junk that makes Texas Cavers NOT worth reading.

On May 14, 2009 5:47pm, Jules Jenkins julesje...@yahoo.com wrote:

really, do we all need to have to read your email response to Lyndon?
this is the kind of junk that makes cave tex NOT worth reading.




--- On Thu, 5/14/09, mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com wrote:



From: mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now  
Online!

To: Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca, texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 10:44 PM



Yea, give me my paper copy too. Mark Gee NSS #49625








From: Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:47:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now  
Online!



Quoted from a caver:
 As I stated before I want both paper and electronic copies, so what
 does
 that make me? irresponsibly responsible? Or Responsibly irresponsible?




Quoted from a caver:
 that if a
 member does want to receive a hardcopy TxCvr, that they are
 environmentally or fiscally irresponsible.



You can have either the hard copy and/or electronic or you can have both.  
You don't have to feel bad about anything.



So what if someone calls you names. You keep your chin up and give
them
the finger.




-- Lyndon Tiu



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Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: 15th ICS - Important Wednesday trips status

[jranzau]

hmm... There are a surprisingly large number of bats that live along the  
riverwalk. Several of the building have architectural features that they  
seem to fine appealing. But I suspect that this isn't the reason. Although,  
maybe Schlitterbahn is canceled because of the new amphibian disease that  
is starting to spread...


On May 7, 2009 11:30am, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
Forwarded by Mixon. I assume WNS had nothing to do with cancelling the  
shopping-center trips, but rather lack of interest.





Begin forwarded message:





From: ICS 2009 eList secret...@ics2009.us



Date: May 6, 2009 9:00:18 PM CDT



To: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu



Subject: 15th ICS - Important Wednesday trips status





Dear Friends,




Last month I sadly announced that White Nose Syndrome, which has recently  
killed about half million bats in the US, has forced the organizers of  
the 15th International Congress of Speleology (ICS) to reevaluate its  
field trips. It is important that we do not accidentally spread this  
problem farther and into other countries. With this message I will update  
you on the Wednesday trips. I am happy to report we have not cancelled  
any Wednesday trips other than reported earlier.





The following trips are cancelled:



Wednesday trip WD-108: Land and Bat Habitat Restoration



Wednesday trip WD-110: Powell's Cave



Wednesday trip WD-120: Fredericksburg, Peaches, and History



Wednesday trip WD-122: River Walk and Shopping in San Antonio



Wednesday trip WD-123: San Marcos Prime Shopping Center



Wednesday trip WD-124: Schlitterbahn Waterpark resort



Wednesday trip WD-126: YO Ranch






The following trips are guaranteed to occur and there is room on most for  
you to continue to register:



WD-101: Bats, Bridges, and Cave Preserves



WD-102: Birds, Rivers, and Bats



WD-103: Canoeing, Kayaking, and Tubing the Guadalupe River



WD-104: Challenges in Urban Cave Management



WD-105: Endangered Species/Endangered Caves



WD-106: Karst Hydrogeology of the Edwards Aquifer



WD-107: Kickapoo Cavern and the Devil's Sinkhole (filled)



WD-109: Paleontology of Caves of the Edwards Plateau



WD-111: Granitic Pseudokarst of Enchanted Rock State Natural Area


WD-112: Recharge and Discharge Features of the Edwards and Trinity  
Aquifers



WD-113: Rock art at Seminole Canyon State Park



WD-121: Historic Spanish Missions trail



WD-125: Sea World San Antonio




I will soon send news on the final status of the pre-ICS and post-ICS  
trips.





We look forward to seeing you soon in Kerrville,





George





George Veni, Ph.D.



Chairman, 15th International Congress of Speleology



Adjunct Secretary, International Union of Speleology



Executive Director, US National Cave and Karst Research Institute








You have received this message because you are subscribed to the 2009 ICS  
eList. To unsubscribe, please visit:



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Re: [Texascavers] RE: Honeycreek trip May 8-10

[jranzau]

Why are you screaming?

Joe

On May 1, 2009 10:30am, Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote:


KEEP A LOOKOUT FOR WESTERN DIAMONDBACKS IN THIS AREA. ABOUT
THREE YEARS AGO AT TCR I SAW A THREE FOOTER CROSS THE STRAIGHT DIRT ROAD A
LITTLE BEFORE IT SLOPED OFF TOWARD THE SPRING. OF COURSE, THEY CAN BE  
ANYWHERE

IN CENTRAL TEXAS.



FRITZ






From: Kurt L. Menking [mailto:gi...@bcad.org]



Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 7:54 AM
To:
Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Honeycreek trip May
8-10









For those who haven't
heard there is a Honeycreek work weekend scheduled for the weekend of May
8-10. We will be camping at the spring beginning Friday
evening.





The focus for the
weekend will be taking down the cables, and some old fencing near the  
spring

entrance. The owner also would like us to pile up the debris collected
along the fences so it can be burned when the burn ban is lifted. If we
are able to burn, we'll have one heck of a bon-fire. If there are extra
people available I'm sure there are other areas that need brush cutting.
I'd say bring gloves, chain saws (if you have one), and loppers. Some
extra tow chain would be nice as well since we'll be using multiple  
tractors to

move the cables, and large tree trunks that are against the
cables.





Since this is
primarily a work weekend, I'd say all are welcome (even novices). Most of
Saturday will be reserved for the work projects, but we'll shut down by  
4pm or
earlier, and those who want to go in the cave with appropriate team  
leaders will

be turned loose. There have been several requests for through trips, QA
trips, etc. But don't show up late Saturday afternoon so you miss all the
work, and expect to go caving.





Saturday evening, and
Sunday morning will also be available for trip leader training for ICS  
team

leaders. Bill and I, and possibly others will be leading several groups
Saturday evening and probably Sunday morning to different areas from the  
shaft

entrance, since all ICS trips will use only the shaft
entrance.





We need about 25-30
cavers to help lead trips to HC during the ICS convention. ICS trips to HC
are scheduled for July 19,22,23,25. This is your chance to meet new
cavers, make new friends, and share one of Texas' best and its longest  
cave with

others from all over the nation and world. Contact Bill Steele or Myself
if you want to help lead ICS trips to Honeycreek.





Kurt

Re: [Texascavers] dinner at TSA

[jranzau]

Then I will also remind everyone that the TCMA also asks you to bring your  
own equipment for the breakfast on Sunday. It is worth noting that our  
request is not annoying as I do not write in a posh British accent like the  
other chef.


Joe

On Apr 22, 2009 10:37am, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
Can't hurt to remind people again that those preparing the TSA dinner  
Saturday night will, annoyingly, expect people to bring their own plates,  
cups, and eating utensils.



--Mixon



-


He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest  
benefactor the world has yet known. - Sir Richard Burton



--



You may reply to the address this message



came from, but for long-term use, save:



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AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org











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Re: Re: [Texascavers] The alter-Epic at Honey Creek Cave

[jranzau]

Made me cold reading it!

On Feb 4, 2009 11:07am, Thomas Sitch dreadfl...@yahoo.com wrote:

An excellent and suspenseful telling, Puppy!



I feel like it needs to be bound and placed on the shelf next to Into  

Thin Air. 'Glad you made it out in one piece :)




Best Regards,



~~Thomas

--- On Wed, 2/4/09, wwildch...@aol.com wwildch...@aol.com wrote:


From: wwildch...@aol.com wwildch...@aol.com
Subject: [Texascavers] The alter-Epic at Honey Creek Cave
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 10:42 AM



Puppy here. I haven't opened my texas cavers mail folder in a long time  
(1,236 unread messages) since topics tend to vary way off of caving at  
times but I saw the epic Honey Creek title and couldn't help jumping back  
in to tell my long winded epic. So delete now if you've already seen the  
movie.



Yes I had a bit more of an adventure than everyone else (well except for  
that lucky Ninja brown, but his adventure was fun). Diana isn't to blame  
and neither is Bill (although I won't ever let him forget he forgot me). I  
pushed myself too far by attempting HC 6 days after running a marathon. My  
feeble attempt to help Creature carry a tank back out made me realize just  
how far gone my body was and I should have stuck closer to someone. And by  
the way Creature is one of the most incredible super human cavers I have  
ever known. I watched her grab a tank and practically run when I could  
barely carry my

pack and her Tang at a slow crawl.

This is a bit long but it was my way to document for myself my experience  

so I thought i would share it as well.


I remember passing the water well and yelling a good yahoo knowing the  
exit was near. plus at this point the water is deeper and much easier to  
float on my pack and rest my body with minimal effort of just moving with  
my toes. then came the cold and fog and I thought wow I didn't know there  
was another air access point (hhmmnn wonder if bill knows about this). so I  
kept going enjoying my easy float. then the fog cleared and after a few  
minutes I realized I apparently just had never looked up from following the  
crowds because this part of the cave is quite nice. rock bottom, nice and  
clear and quite pretty. I wondered if somehow I had taken a wrong turn so I  
stopped, listened and heard bill and several others splashing and talking  
still coming in my direction thus i must be going the right
way still. I went on about 10 more minutes (I didn't have a watch) when I  
came across a very low ceiling and I knew I had never been here before. For  
the first time in hours my brain actually sparked and said oh shit.  
suddenly all the pieces: fog, cold, etc clicked.I turned back but I wasn't  
panicked because I would run into everyone in 10-15 min I was sure. It took  
about 10min to make my way back to the entrance going at a fast pace only  
to find three harnesses (two extras and my own) hanging but no cable. Not a  
problem they are just in the middle of un hooking people so I put my  
harness on, shined my light up a few times and waited, 5 min later nothing.  
I shined my brightest pelican light up the shaft and yelled for a minute or  
two but I knew that was useless if no one was actually looking down. I've  
been through this exit twice before so I knew it was a mad dash from the  
shaft to your tent to get dry and warm and shove something in your mouth
then pass out. I was getting very cold very fast so I set a timeline of  
yelling for a few more minutes then I would focus on sheltering in place  
for the night. The low was around 35 that night and a strong wind comes  
straight down that shaft but I rationalized I couldn't ri sk moving farther  
back into the cave for fear someone would come back for the gear.


Then my light died and I messed around with an alternate light and  
switching out another light out of creatures bag to make sure I had plenty  
of backup. I still had two long sleeve thermal shirts and two pairs of  
running tights and dry thermal socks that I had in my dry bag for the wait  
at the end. Creatures bag I just found a skimpy pair of spandex hotpants  
(sorry creature, but I got the biggest laugh out of that at that moment  
since there wasn't enough material to keep one nugget warm) The shaft area  
is all standing water, but through a crack near the floor where I could see  
a shelf of
rock just above water level in the adjoining room. I put the gear bags  
against the crack to block the wind and went to the other side and moved  
lots of rock to make a bed. It was equivalent to climbing under a standard  
2'x5' coffee table. once i was situated out of the water I attempted to  
exchange my boots and neoprene socks for a pair of nice dry thermal socks  
(not easily done with an 18 ceiling) along with the two pairs of tights  
(over my harness of course). my feet were already light blue and my toes  
dark blue when I put the socks on. I didn't want to put my wet 

[Texascavers] A video of Grutas Bustamante

[jranzau]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gMzjf460qw

It shows the tunnel and new trail system.

Re: RE: [Texascavers] guano question

[jranzau]

So is this a new record for TexasCavers? A discussion that contains  
scatological humor, scientific study of guano fall rates, actual caving  
stories, new word creation and a reference to George Veni's testicles!


Geary and Locklear may need to be punished for this :-) Maybe a roadtrip  
from Houston to Xilitla together in David's Honda Fit...


On Dec 5, 2008 9:46am, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:



Sounds like we have some good
candidates for the Carbide Corner in some upcoming TEXAS
CAVERs.



Any takers want to submit a bio and apropos
column?





Thanks,



(An always looking for material editor)
Mark









From: vivb...@att.net
[mailto:vivb...@att.net]
Sent: Fri 12/5/2008 9:32 AM
To:
Texascavers Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] guano
question







David wrote:
I am just curious which cave
passages have you experienced your
worst encounter with bat guano.

The
Vampire guano in Japones Cave in Mexico was pretty bad. Really deep red  

and

sticky-slimy gooey. And the vampires were in a complete frenzy filling the
passage and stirring up the choking smell. But we only had to walk ankle  

deep in

it. It didn't even top my boots and wet my socks.

Then I thought I had
experienced the worst the time I plunged one leg into a 2' diameter  

pothole full
of semi-liquid quano in Borneo. Those potholes were everywhere so we  

really had

to watch it. But even then, only one leg was completely saturated with the
stuff, and I was able to wash off in the river that night.

But the true
pinnacle of guano came the time George Veni took us to Sorcerer's cave  

here in
Texas. It was the Boil-Boil-Guano-and-Trouble passage. This is a full on  

lake of
pudding-consistency guano with a frosting of insect casings and dead  

bats. It's
actually a series of these lakes. Apparently some of the original  

explorers wore

hip waders (a rally good idea), but George swore he could cross the lakes
without getting his balls wet, and it wouldn't be that bad. But then, no
one had been there is some time, and the guano dam on the far side had  

grown. It
was at least waist deep for everyone, that is if you could maintain your  

perch
on invisible ledges deep in the pools. Once on the far side, it was  

decided to
take out the guano dam (something like a rimstone dam, but all pure  

guano)to
lower the lakes to their previous levels. I thought the amonia and  

methane would
kill us all for a minute there, but eventually the air did clear  

somewhat, and

we all made it to our objectives.

At the bottom of the cave is a really
nice stream passage, so we could get nice and clean down there. But the  

trouble
was you have to exit the cave through the guano lakes. On my way out of  

the
cave, I was the lucky one who actually did fall full on into the  

over-my-head
shit. I managed to barely keep my lips above guano, but my hair was  

saturated.
It was freezing cold outside and we were in a 100% dry camp, so when I  

stumbled
out of the cave in the wee hours, I just washed my hands and face as best  

I

could with a nalgene of water and crawled in my sleeping bag.

I was
pleased to learn that the climb I did the next day did not require  

traversing

the dreaded
cesspool.

Poo-falls?
Shitslide?
guanoflow?


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