Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

I recall Bob Burney and I mapping the Lake of the Clouds room in Carlsbad.
I even found a photo of that event. Not the same place of course. But the
clouds were huge and impressive to say the least. The water was deep.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Gill Ediger via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> Corredor Superior just has a nice ring to it.
> --Ediger
>
>
>   On Friday, December 19, 2014 7:35 PM, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
>
> That works too,
> El dic 19, 2014 5:12 PM, "Mark Minton via Texascavers" <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> escribió:
>
>How about Pasaje Superior? There is a Pasaje Superior and Pasaje
> Inferior in Sótano de La Joya de Salas.
>
> Mark
> mmin...@caver.net
>
> On Fri, December 19, 2014 2:17 pm, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers wrote:
> > Gill, I just posted a picture of the formations on your fb wall, and
> > corredor would be the right word, I'd use pasillo to describe some part
> of
> > a house
> >
> > El dic 19, 2014 12:08 PM, "Gill Ediger via Texascavers"
> >  escribió:
> >
> >> I just consulted my paper copy of the map and notice that  I'd penciled
> in
> >> above the title 'Birthday Passage' the name 'Corredor Superior', which
> to
> >> me meant 'Upper Passage' at the time. I've come to discover that the
> word
> >> 'corredor' isn't usually used that way in Spanish. The proper term
> should
> >> probably be 'pasillo'. Eh, Nico?
> >> --Ediger
> >>
> >>   On Friday, December 19, 2014 11:25 AM, Gill Ediger 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm not familiar with the name "Cloud Room" and don't have account
> access
> >> to the photo sent with your post, Nico. Can somebody snag that pic and
> post
> >> it in the clear? I will try to compare it to any photos I might have. I
> >> think I shot all those in B&W so may not have them readily to hand. We
> had
> >> a room called the "Snow Room" which was just about the first feature on
> the
> >> right after going through the access crawlway from the balcony into the
> >> BDP. There were some rather large mammiform formations toward the back
> of
> >> the passage--developed underwater--which might be construed as clouds.
> >> The quoted statement, "the speleothems found in that "newly found part
> of
> >> the cave" " seems to not be referencing their 'discovery' of the passage
> >> but simply a term to indicate that it was discovered more recently than
> the
> >> main part of the cave, as if citing something called "the New
> Discovery" 40
> >> years after its discovery. It has to be blatantly obvious to anyone
> >> visiting the BDP that it has had plenty of cavers exploring it and
> >> leaving foot prints in the mud and mud streaks all over the formations.
> >> When I first climbed up to the balcony in ~1969 there was already a set
> of
> >> footprints in the mud. But the crawlway leading to the rest of the BDP
> >> had not been violated, being on the floor and under a low ledge and not
> at
> >> all obvious. Whoever had preceded me had not bent over far enough to see
> >> it. After some time (months or years) I heard of a trip by TR Evans,
> Terry
> >> Raines, and another on which one of them (Terry, I think) had climbed up
> >> to the balcony but found no going passage.
> >> --Ediger
>
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-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Gill Ediger via Texascavers]

Corredor Superior just has a nice ring to it. 
--Ediger


On Friday, December 19, 2014 7:35 PM, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers 
 wrote:
 


That works too, 
El dic 19, 2014 5:12 PM, "Mark Minton via Texascavers" 
 escribió:

   How about Pasaje Superior? There is a Pasaje Superior and Pasaje
>Inferior in Sótano de La Joya de Salas.
>
>Mark
>mmin...@caver.net
>
>On Fri, December 19, 2014 2:17 pm, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers wrote:
>> Gill, I just posted a picture of the formations on your fb wall, and
>> corredor would be the right word, I'd use pasillo to describe some part of
>> a house
>>
>> El dic 19, 2014 12:08 PM, "Gill Ediger via Texascavers"
>>  escribió:
>>
>>> I just consulted my paper copy of the map and notice that  I'd penciled in
>>> above the title 'Birthday Passage' the name 'Corredor Superior', which to
>>> me meant 'Upper Passage' at the time. I've come to discover that the word
>>> 'corredor' isn't usually used that way in Spanish. The proper term should
>>> probably be 'pasillo'. Eh, Nico?
>>> --Ediger
>>>
>>>   On Friday, December 19, 2014 11:25 AM, Gill Ediger 
>wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar with the name "Cloud Room" and don't have account access
>>> to the photo sent with your post, Nico. Can somebody snag that pic and
>post
>>> it in the clear? I will try to compare it to any photos I might have. I
>>> think I shot all those in B&W so may not have them readily to hand. We had
>>> a room called the "Snow Room" which was just about the first feature on
>the
>>> right after going through the access crawlway from the balcony into the
>>> BDP. There were some rather large mammiform formations toward the back of
>>> the passage--developed underwater--which might be construed as clouds.
>>> The quoted statement, "the speleothems found in that "newly found part of
>>> the cave" " seems to not be referencing their 'discovery' of the passage
>>> but simply a term to indicate that it was discovered more recently than
>the
>>> main part of the cave, as if citing something called "the New
>Discovery" 40
>>> years after its discovery. It has to be blatantly obvious to anyone
>>> visiting the BDP that it has had plenty of cavers exploring it and
>>> leaving foot prints in the mud and mud streaks all over the formations.
>>> When I first climbed up to the balcony in ~1969 there was already a set of
>>> footprints in the mud. But the crawlway leading to the rest of the BDP
>>> had not been violated, being on the floor and under a low ledge and not at
>>> all obvious. Whoever had preceded me had not bent over far enough to see
>>> it. After some time (months or years) I heard of a trip by TR Evans, Terry
>>> Raines, and another on which one of them (Terry, I think) had climbed up
>>> to the balcony but found no going passage.
>>> --Ediger
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Nico Escamilla via Texascavers]

That works too,
El dic 19, 2014 5:12 PM, "Mark Minton via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> escribió:

>How about Pasaje Superior? There is a Pasaje Superior and Pasaje
> Inferior in Sótano de La Joya de Salas.
>
> Mark
> mmin...@caver.net
>
> On Fri, December 19, 2014 2:17 pm, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers wrote:
> > Gill, I just posted a picture of the formations on your fb wall, and
> > corredor would be the right word, I'd use pasillo to describe some part
> of
> > a house
> >
> > El dic 19, 2014 12:08 PM, "Gill Ediger via Texascavers"
> >  escribió:
> >
> >> I just consulted my paper copy of the map and notice that  I'd penciled
> in
> >> above the title 'Birthday Passage' the name 'Corredor Superior', which
> to
> >> me meant 'Upper Passage' at the time. I've come to discover that the
> word
> >> 'corredor' isn't usually used that way in Spanish. The proper term
> should
> >> probably be 'pasillo'. Eh, Nico?
> >> --Ediger
> >>
> >>   On Friday, December 19, 2014 11:25 AM, Gill Ediger 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm not familiar with the name "Cloud Room" and don't have account
> access
> >> to the photo sent with your post, Nico. Can somebody snag that pic and
> post
> >> it in the clear? I will try to compare it to any photos I might have. I
> >> think I shot all those in B&W so may not have them readily to hand. We
> had
> >> a room called the "Snow Room" which was just about the first feature on
> the
> >> right after going through the access crawlway from the balcony into the
> >> BDP. There were some rather large mammiform formations toward the back
> of
> >> the passage--developed underwater--which might be construed as clouds.
> >> The quoted statement, "the speleothems found in that "newly found part
> of
> >> the cave" " seems to not be referencing their 'discovery' of the passage
> >> but simply a term to indicate that it was discovered more recently than
> the
> >> main part of the cave, as if citing something called "the New
> Discovery" 40
> >> years after its discovery. It has to be blatantly obvious to anyone
> >> visiting the BDP that it has had plenty of cavers exploring it and
> >> leaving foot prints in the mud and mud streaks all over the formations.
> >> When I first climbed up to the balcony in ~1969 there was already a set
> of
> >> footprints in the mud. But the crawlway leading to the rest of the BDP
> >> had not been violated, being on the floor and under a low ledge and not
> at
> >> all obvious. Whoever had preceded me had not bent over far enough to see
> >> it. After some time (months or years) I heard of a trip by TR Evans,
> Terry
> >> Raines, and another on which one of them (Terry, I think) had climbed up
> >> to the balcony but found no going passage.
> >> --Ediger
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Mark Minton via Texascavers]

   How about Pasaje Superior? There is a Pasaje Superior and Pasaje
Inferior in Sótano de La Joya de Salas.

Mark
mmin...@caver.net

On Fri, December 19, 2014 2:17 pm, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers wrote:
> Gill, I just posted a picture of the formations on your fb wall, and
> corredor would be the right word, I'd use pasillo to describe some part of
> a house
>
> El dic 19, 2014 12:08 PM, "Gill Ediger via Texascavers"
>  escribió:
>
>> I just consulted my paper copy of the map and notice that  I'd penciled in
>> above the title 'Birthday Passage' the name 'Corredor Superior', which to
>> me meant 'Upper Passage' at the time. I've come to discover that the word
>> 'corredor' isn't usually used that way in Spanish. The proper term should
>> probably be 'pasillo'. Eh, Nico?
>> --Ediger
>>
>>   On Friday, December 19, 2014 11:25 AM, Gill Ediger 
wrote:
>>
>> I'm not familiar with the name "Cloud Room" and don't have account access
>> to the photo sent with your post, Nico. Can somebody snag that pic and
post
>> it in the clear? I will try to compare it to any photos I might have. I
>> think I shot all those in B&W so may not have them readily to hand. We had
>> a room called the "Snow Room" which was just about the first feature on
the
>> right after going through the access crawlway from the balcony into the
>> BDP. There were some rather large mammiform formations toward the back of
>> the passage--developed underwater--which might be construed as clouds.
>> The quoted statement, "the speleothems found in that "newly found part of
>> the cave" " seems to not be referencing their 'discovery' of the passage
>> but simply a term to indicate that it was discovered more recently than
the
>> main part of the cave, as if citing something called "the New
Discovery" 40
>> years after its discovery. It has to be blatantly obvious to anyone
>> visiting the BDP that it has had plenty of cavers exploring it and
>> leaving foot prints in the mud and mud streaks all over the formations.
>> When I first climbed up to the balcony in ~1969 there was already a set of
>> footprints in the mud. But the crawlway leading to the rest of the BDP
>> had not been violated, being on the floor and under a low ledge and not at
>> all obvious. Whoever had preceded me had not bent over far enough to see
>> it. After some time (months or years) I heard of a trip by TR Evans, Terry
>> Raines, and another on which one of them (Terry, I think) had climbed up
>> to the balcony but found no going passage.
>> --Ediger

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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Nico Escamilla via Texascavers]

Gill, I just posted a picture of the formations on your fb wall, and
corredor would be the right word, I'd use pasillo to describe some part of
a house
El dic 19, 2014 12:08 PM, "Gill Ediger via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> escribió:

> I just consulted my paper copy of the map and notice that  I'd penciled in
> above the title 'Birthday Passage' the name 'Corredor Superior', which to
> me meant 'Upper Passage' at the time. I've come to discover that the word '
> corredor' isn't usually used that way in Spanish. The proper term should
> probably be 'pasillo'. Eh, Nico?
> --Ediger
>
>
>   On Friday, December 19, 2014 11:25 AM, Gill Ediger 
> wrote:
>
>
> I'm not familiar with the name "Cloud Room" and don't have account access
> to the photo sent with your post, Nico. Can somebody snag that pic and post
> it in the clear? I will try to compare it to any photos I might have. I
> think I shot all those in B&W so may not have them readily to hand. We had
> a room called the "Snow Room" which was just about the first feature on the
> right after going through the access crawlway from the balcony into the
> BDP. There were some rather large mammiform formations toward the back of
> the passage--developed underwater--which might be construed as clouds.
> The quoted statement, "the speleothems found in that "newly found part of
> the cave" " seems to not be referencing their 'discovery' of the passage
> but simply a term to indicate that it was discovered more recently than the
> main part of the cave, as if citing something called "the New Discovery" 40
> years after its discovery. It has to be blatantly obvious to anyone
> visiting the BDP that it has had plenty of cavers exploring it and
> leaving foot prints in the mud and mud streaks all over the formations.
> When I first climbed up to the balcony in ~1969 there was already a set of
> footprints in the mud. But the crawlway leading to the rest of the BDP
> had not been violated, being on the floor and under a low ledge and not at
> all obvious. Whoever had preceded me had not bent over far enough to see
> it. After some time (months or years) I heard of a trip by TR Evans, Terry
> Raines, and another on which one of them (Terry, I think) had climbed up
> to the balcony but found no going passage.
> --Ediger
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Gill Ediger via Texascavers]

I just consulted my paper copy of the map and notice that  I'd penciled in 
above the title 'Birthday Passage' the name 'Corredor Superior', which to me 
meant 'Upper Passage' at the time. I've come to discover that the word 
'corredor' isn't usually used that way in Spanish. The proper term should 
probably be 'pasillo'. Eh, Nico? 
--Ediger


On Friday, December 19, 2014 11:25 AM, Gill Ediger  wrote:
 


I'm not familiar with the name "Cloud Room" and don't have account access to 
the photo sent with your post, Nico. Can somebody snag that pic and post it in 
the clear? I will try to compare it to any photos I might have. I think I shot 
all those in B&W so may not have them readily to hand. We had a room called the 
"Snow Room" which was just about the first feature on the right after going 
through the access crawlway from the balcony into the BDP. There were some 
rather large mammiform formations toward the back of the passage--developed 
underwater--which might be construed as clouds. 
The quoted statement, "the speleothems found in that "newly found part of the 
cave" " seems to not be referencing their 'discovery' of the passage but simply 
a term to indicate that it was discovered more recently than the main part of 
the cave, as if citing something called "the New Discovery" 40 years after its 
discovery. It has to be blatantly obvious to anyone visiting the BDP that it 
has had plenty of cavers exploring it and leaving foot prints in the mud and 
mud streaks all over the formations. When I first climbed up to the balcony in 
~1969 there was already a set of footprints in the mud. But the crawlway 
leading to the rest of the BDP had not been violated, being on the floor and 
under a low ledge and not at all obvious. Whoever had preceded me had not bent 
over far enough to see it. After some time (months or years) I heard of a trip 
by TR Evans, Terry Raines, and another on which one of them (Terry, I think) 
had climbed up to the balcony but
 found no going passage. 
--Ediger___
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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Gill Ediger via Texascavers]

I'm not familiar with the name "Cloud Room" and don't have account access to 
the photo sent with your post, Nico. Can somebody snag that pic and post it in 
the clear? I will try to compare it to any photos I might have. I think I shot 
all those in B&W so may not have them readily to hand. We had a room called the 
"Snow Room" which was just about the first feature on the right after going 
through the access crawlway from the balcony into the BDP. There were some 
rather large mammiform formations toward the back of the passage--developed 
underwater--which might be construed as clouds. 
The quoted statement, "the speleothems found in that "newly found part of the 
cave" " seems to not be referencing their 'discovery' of the passage but simply 
a term to indicate that it was discovered more recently than the main part of 
the cave, as if citing something called "the New Discovery" 40 years after its 
discovery. It has to be blatantly obvious to anyone visiting the BDP that it 
has had plenty of cavers exploring it and leaving foot prints in the mud and 
mud streaks all over the formations. When I first climbed up to the balcony in 
~1969 there was already a set of footprints in the mud. But the crawlway 
leading to the rest of the BDP had not been violated, being on the floor and 
under a low ledge and not at all obvious. Whoever had preceded me had not bent 
over far enough to see it. After some time (months or years) I heard of a trip 
by TR Evans, Terry Raines, and another on which one of them (Terry, I think) 
had climbed up to the balcony but
 found no going passage. 
--Ediger
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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Nico Escamilla via Texascavers]

Someone in my friends list shared the link on fb as well, and I saw a
comment from an aceac member who claimed to have discovered that room..
what a tool! Following their logic I must have discovered it back in 2006
too

Mark, I believe the grapefruit room and the cloud room are the same, the
name seems to be interchangeable..

Be it as it may, these people are getting media attention and glory for
something they did not actually scoop, and to me thats just wrong and
unethical caving practice
El dic 18, 2014 12:25 PM, "Fofo via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> escribió:

> It would be hard to think that no one had been up to the Birthday Passage
> when at the top of the climb there's a hanger.
>
> And I'm sure that the Birthday Passage itself has tracks in the calcite
> sand.
>
> I believe Monica from the Asociacion Coahuilense is in this email list and
> maybe she will clarify?
>
> - Fofo
>
>
>
> > On 18/12/2014, at 09:59, Mark Minton via Texascavers <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
> >
> > Nico,
> >
> >   I think you're right. The photo looks like something in the Birthday
> > Passage, known for 30 years or more to Texans. It's a sporting and
> > exposed climb to get up there, so maybe the coahuilense thought it
> > hadn't been done. Hopefully they won't get credit for long, once
> > someone points out the true history of the cave.
> >
> > Mark Minton
> > mmin...@caver.net
> >
> >> On Wed, December 17, 2014 10:00 pm, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers
> wrote:
> >> While browsing the news today I found an article on the El Norte website
> >> about in Grutas del Palmito aka Bustamante, said article talks about the
> >> "new discoveries" made in the cave by members of the asociacion
> coahuilense
> >> de espeleologia, or aceac using a drone to film upper levels of the cave
> >> and mentioned the uniqueness of the speleothems found in that "newly
> found
> >> part of the cave"
> >>
> >> The reason why Im using quotes is because the article features a
> prominent
> >> picture of the Cloud Room, and correct me if Im wrong but, hasnt that
> part
> >> of the cave been explored for decades? Heck, I was even there almost 10
> >> years ago
> >>
> >> Looks like someone is taking undeserved credit here..
> >>
> >> link to the article  >> Monterrey, México (17 diciembre 2014).- Una investigación realizada
> >> recientemente por especialistas de la Asociación Coahuilense de
> >> Espeleologí­a en las Grutas de Bustamante descubrió nuevos salones con
> >> formaciones únicas en el País. A través de un dron, que captó
> >> imágenes en
> >> la parte superior de las grutas, exploradas hasta ahora en un 10 por
> >> ciento, reveló espeleotemas que comprueban la antigüedad de la
> >> formación y
> >> su importancia. "Tiene todo tipo de espeleotemas registrados,
> espeleotemas
> >> únicos en México y al aparecer en Latinoamérica", expresó en rueda de
> >> prensa Ana Gabriela Morales, presidenta de la Asociación Coahuilense de
> >> Espeleología. Leer más:
> >>
> http://www.elnorte.com/aplicacioneslibre/preacceso/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5&urlredirect=http://www.elnorte.com/aplicaciones/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5#ixzz3MDGsMFIL
> >
> >> but its by subscription only
> >
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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Fofo via Texascavers]

It would be hard to think that no one had been up to the Birthday Passage when 
at the top of the climb there's a hanger. 

And I'm sure that the Birthday Passage itself has tracks in the calcite sand. 

I believe Monica from the Asociacion Coahuilense is in this email list and 
maybe she will clarify?

- Fofo 



> On 18/12/2014, at 09:59, Mark Minton via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nico,
> 
>   I think you're right. The photo looks like something in the Birthday
> Passage, known for 30 years or more to Texans. It's a sporting and
> exposed climb to get up there, so maybe the coahuilense thought it
> hadn't been done. Hopefully they won't get credit for long, once
> someone points out the true history of the cave.
> 
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
>> On Wed, December 17, 2014 10:00 pm, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers wrote:
>> While browsing the news today I found an article on the El Norte website
>> about in Grutas del Palmito aka Bustamante, said article talks about the
>> "new discoveries" made in the cave by members of the asociacion coahuilense
>> de espeleologia, or aceac using a drone to film upper levels of the cave
>> and mentioned the uniqueness of the speleothems found in that "newly found
>> part of the cave"
>> 
>> The reason why Im using quotes is because the article features a prominent
>> picture of the Cloud Room, and correct me if Im wrong but, hasnt that part
>> of the cave been explored for decades? Heck, I was even there almost 10
>> years ago
>> 
>> Looks like someone is taking undeserved credit here..
>> 
>> link to the article > Monterrey, México (17 diciembre 2014).- Una investigación realizada
>> recientemente por especialistas de la Asociación Coahuilense de
>> Espeleologí­a en las Grutas de Bustamante descubrió nuevos salones con
>> formaciones únicas en el País. A través de un dron, que captó
>> imágenes en
>> la parte superior de las grutas, exploradas hasta ahora en un 10 por
>> ciento, reveló espeleotemas que comprueban la antigüedad de la
>> formación y
>> su importancia. "Tiene todo tipo de espeleotemas registrados, espeleotemas
>> únicos en México y al aparecer en Latinoamérica", expresó en rueda de
>> prensa Ana Gabriela Morales, presidenta de la Asociación Coahuilense de
>> Espeleología. Leer más:
>> http://www.elnorte.com/aplicacioneslibre/preacceso/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5&urlredirect=http://www.elnorte.com/aplicaciones/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5#ixzz3MDGsMFIL>
>> but its by subscription only
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Mark Minton via Texascavers]

  Just found the Texas Caver article about the Birthday Passage in Palmito
(Bustamante), complete with map, thanks to Bill Mixon's list of Mexico
items in TC at . It
was the January, 1970 issue, so it's been known for about 45 years.
There's nothing on the map called the Cloud Room, although there is a
Grapefruit Room. That's likely too far back for a drone to have reached,
though. It's been too long since I was there to remember where else such
formations might have been visible.

Mark
mmin...@caver.net

On Thu, December 18, 2014 12:59 pm, Mark Minton via Texascavers wrote:
> Nico,
>
>I think you're right. The photo looks like something in the Birthday
> Passage, known for 30 years or more to Texans. It's a sporting and
> exposed climb to get up there, so maybe the coahuilense thought it
> hadn't been done. Hopefully they won't get credit for long, once
> someone points out the true history of the cave.
>
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
>
>On Wed, December 17, 2014 10:00 pm, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers wrote:
>> While browsing the news today I found an article on the El Norte website
>> about in Grutas del Palmito aka Bustamante, said article talks about the
>> "new discoveries" made in the cave by members of the asociacion
coahuilense
>> de espeleologia, or aceac using a drone to film upper levels of the cave
>> and mentioned the uniqueness of the speleothems found in that "newly found
>> part of the cave"
>>
>> The reason why Im using quotes is because the article features a prominent
>> picture of the Cloud Room, and correct me if Im wrong but, hasnt that part
>> of the cave been explored for decades? Heck, I was even there almost 10
>> years ago
>>
>> Looks like someone is taking undeserved credit here..
>>
>> link to the article > Monterrey, México (17 diciembre 2014).- Una investigación realizada
>> recientemente por especialistas de la Asociación Coahuilense de
>> Espeleologí­a en las Grutas de Bustamante descubrió nuevos salones con
>> formaciones únicas en el País. A través de un dron, que captó
>> imágenes en
>> la parte superior de las grutas, exploradas hasta ahora en un 10 por
>> ciento, reveló espeleotemas que comprueban la antigüedad de la
>> formación y
>> su importancia. "Tiene todo tipo de espeleotemas registrados, espeleotemas
>> únicos en México y al aparecer en Latinoamérica", expresó en rueda de
>> prensa Ana Gabriela Morales, presidenta de la Asociación Coahuilense de
>> Espeleología. Leer más:
>> http://www.elnorte.com/aplicacioneslibre/preacceso/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5&urlredirect=http://www.elnorte.com/aplicaciones/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5#ixzz3MDGsMFIL>
>> but its by subscription only

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Re: [Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Mark Minton via Texascavers]

Nico,

   I think you're right. The photo looks like something in the Birthday
Passage, known for 30 years or more to Texans. It's a sporting and
exposed climb to get up there, so maybe the coahuilense thought it
hadn't been done. Hopefully they won't get credit for long, once
someone points out the true history of the cave.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On Wed, December 17, 2014 10:00 pm, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers wrote:
> While browsing the news today I found an article on the El Norte website
> about in Grutas del Palmito aka Bustamante, said article talks about the
> "new discoveries" made in the cave by members of the asociacion coahuilense
> de espeleologia, or aceac using a drone to film upper levels of the cave
> and mentioned the uniqueness of the speleothems found in that "newly found
> part of the cave"
>
> The reason why Im using quotes is because the article features a prominent
> picture of the Cloud Room, and correct me if Im wrong but, hasnt that part
> of the cave been explored for decades? Heck, I was even there almost 10
> years ago
>
> Looks like someone is taking undeserved credit here..
>
> link to the article  Monterrey, México (17 diciembre 2014).- Una investigación realizada
> recientemente por especialistas de la Asociación Coahuilense de
> Espeleologí­a en las Grutas de Bustamante descubrió nuevos salones con
> formaciones únicas en el País. A través de un dron, que captó
> imágenes en
> la parte superior de las grutas, exploradas hasta ahora en un 10 por
> ciento, reveló espeleotemas que comprueban la antigüedad de la
> formación y
> su importancia. "Tiene todo tipo de espeleotemas registrados, espeleotemas
> únicos en México y al aparecer en Latinoamérica", expresó en rueda de
> prensa Ana Gabriela Morales, presidenta de la Asociación Coahuilense de
> Espeleología. Leer más:
> http://www.elnorte.com/aplicacioneslibre/preacceso/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5&urlredirect=http://www.elnorte.com/aplicaciones/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5#ixzz3MDGsMFIL>
> but its by subscription only

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[Texascavers] Cloud Room

[Nico Escamilla via Texascavers]

While browsing the news today I found an article on the El Norte website
about in Grutas del Palmito aka Bustamante, said article talks about the
"new discoveries" made in the cave by members of the asociacion coahuilense
de espeleologia, or aceac using a drone to film upper levels of the cave
and mentioned the uniqueness of the speleothems found in that "newly found
part of the cave"

The reason why Im using quotes is because the article features a prominent
picture of the Cloud Room, and correct me if Im wrong but, hasnt that part
of the cave been explored for decades? Heck, I was even there almost 10
years ago

Looks like someone is taking undeserved credit here..

link to the article http://www.elnorte.com/aplicacioneslibre/preacceso/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5&urlredirect=http://www.elnorte.com/aplicaciones/articulo/default.aspx?id=421027&v=5#ixzz3MDGsMFIL>
but
its by subscription only
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