RE: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
We would need to do some testing in a good geotech lab as the properties are different for materials that are wet verses dry, lithofied verse unlithofied, compacted, or altered by weathering or leaching, susceptible to liquefaction from vibration, etc. The laboratory work would need to be done and then compared to field measurements in a number of caves. What we may find is that some guano slopes may be at the angle of failure and would need to be shot with some sort of carbide driven crapalanche cannon before it would be safe to walk under. I think the deadline for submittal of abstracts for the ICS has passed but this would make an excellent paper and I'm sure would be a well attended talk. Also, I think that a crapalanche is a subset of craptastrophe as you could have a craptastrophe in a feed lot, sewer lift station, or waste water treatment plant and not involve the mass movement of guano. For example, having a pipe break at a sewer plant resulting in raw sewage flowing down the street and into my front door would be a craptastrophe but not a crapalanche. Interesting discussion. G From: J. LaRue Thomas [mailto:jlrbi...@sonoratx.net] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:04 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question Both craptastrophe and crapalanche could be describing a slide at a feed lot. We need a bat-specific term. Chiropteralanche wouldn't quite be it, as it would imply a slide of the bats themselves, but you can see what I mean... BTW, Anybody know the angle of repose of guano? Jacqui
Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
Both craptastrophe and crapalanche could be describing a slide at a feed lot. We need a bat-specific term. Chiropteralanche wouldn't quite be it, as it would imply a slide of the bats themselves, but you can see what I mean... BTW, Anybody know the angle of repose of guano? Jacqui
RE: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
Excellent, Devra! I think we need a runoff (or a Texas Death Match) between "craptastrophe" and "crapalanche". Mark From: Devra Heyer [mailto:djhe...@swbell.net] Sent: Thu 12/4/2008 9:29 PM To: Texas Cavers; Geary Schindel Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question Would it be a craptastrophe? --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Geary Schindel wrote: From: Geary Schindel Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question To: "Texas Cavers" Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 3:33 PM In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep slopes with any sizeable population present to create a situation where there might be a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an avalanche. Colorado and Wyoming are different stories as there are serious safety issues with avalanches each year. There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock falls in Texas. One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park where you can see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog Canyon, north of the park headquarters. However, Yosemite is probably better known for having large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally squash people. If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may have a land slide. I would assume that there have been a number of landslides or slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this might be an issue. I would assume that it is a fairly unusual geohazard. However, California is famous for their landslides and mud slides. However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most probably in Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps). During the last mapping trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that contained a fair amount of bat guano at an angle which could results in mass movement of the material. Actually, the material probably reached the lower levels of the cave by slumping as there were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material. Our group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue. So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche? G
Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
Crapmaggedon? On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 19:29:04 -0800 (PST) djhe...@swbell.net wrote: > Would it be a craptastrophe? > -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
Assalanche? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 4, 2008, at 9:29 PM, Devra Heyer wrote: Would it be a craptastrophe? --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Geary Schindel wrote: From: Geary Schindel Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question To: "Texas Cavers" Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 3:33 PM In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep slopes with any sizeable population present to create a situation where there might be a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an avalanche. Colorado and Wyoming are different stories as there are serious safety issues with avalanches each year. There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock falls in Texas. One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park where you can see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog Canyon, north of the park headquarters. However, Yosemite is probably better known for having large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally squash people. If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may have a land slide. I would assume that there have been a number of landslides or slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this might be an issue. I would assume that it is a fairly unusual geohazard. However, California is famous for their landslides and mud slides. However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most probably in Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps). During the last mapping trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that contained a fair amount of bat guano at an angle which could results in mass movement of the material. Actually, the material probably reached the lower levels of the cave by slumping as there were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material. Our group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue. So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche? G
Re: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
Would it be a craptastrophe? --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Geary Schindel wrote: From: Geary Schindel Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question To: "Texas Cavers" List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 3:33 PM In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep slopes with any sizeable population present to create a situation where there might be a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an avalanche. Colorado and Wyoming are different stories as there are serious safety issues with avalanches each year. There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock falls in Texas. One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park where you can see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog Canyon, north of the park headquarters. However, Yosemite is probably better known for having large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally squash people. If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may have a land slide. I would assume that there have been a number of landslides or slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this might be an issue. I would assume that it is a fairly unusual geohazard. However, California is famous for their landslides and mud slides. However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most probably in Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps). During the last mapping trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that contained a fair amount of bat guano at an angle which could results in mass movement of the material. Actually, the material probably reached the lower levels of the cave by slumping as there were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material. Our group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue. So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche? G
RE: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
Pretty good, Geary! Maybe Webster's will add this brand new word. Thanks for the chuckle! Mark From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:34 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche? G
[Texascavers] Philosophical question
In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep slopes with any sizeable population present to create a situation where there might be a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an avalanche. Colorado and Wyoming are different stories as there are serious safety issues with avalanches each year. There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock falls in Texas. One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park where you can see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog Canyon, north of the park headquarters. However, Yosemite is probably better known for having large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally squash people. If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may have a land slide. I would assume that there have been a number of landslides or slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this might be an issue. I would assume that it is a fairly unusual geohazard. However, California is famous for their landslides and mud slides. However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most probably in Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps). During the last mapping trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that contained a fair amount of bat guano at an angle which could results in mass movement of the material. Actually, the material probably reached the lower levels of the cave by slumping as there were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material. Our group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue. So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche? G
